Rattay out for 'Substantial' period of time

[Vince]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1797528

Friday, May 7, 2004

ESPN.com news services
<!-- template inline --><!-- insertinlineAd -->SAN FRANCISCO -- The San Francisco 49ers got bad news Friday evening when a magnetic resonance imaging exam revealed quarterback Tim Rattay has a serious groin injury that may require surgery.


Rattay is being groomed to take over as San Francisco's starter from Jeff Garcia, who was released this spring in a salary-cap move. The fifth-year player was injured earlier Friday while rolling out to throw a pass during the opening session of the Niners first spring minicamp.


"The preliminary word is that he's had a serious tear of the upper groin area," Niners general manager Terry Donahue said late Friday. "And it will be a substantial amount of time that he's going to miss."


Donahue said team doctors will take a closer look at the injury this weekend and then discuss with Rattay and team officials whether to operate. Either way, Rattay should be ready for the season's start, according to Donahue, though he added that "Unquestionably, there's going to be a significant amount of time that's going to be involved with this injury."


Rattay is backed up by second-year player Ken Dorsey and third-year veteran Brandon Doman.


Dorsey "will take over the reps of the No. 1 spot," Donahue said.


Rattay went 2-1 in his first three career starts last November when Garcia was out with an ankle injury. His passer rating of 96.6 and completion percentage of 61.9 were the best figures on the team last year.


But Rattay has thrown only 164 passes in four NFL seasons and the next four months are vital to his development.


"It's unfortunate for all of us, especially for Tim, because he's worked very hard and came into camp in great shape," Donahue said.


The Niners will wait to learn the severity of Rattay's injury before deciding whether to bring in an experienced quarterback as insurance.

The team only has about $1.3 million of cap room and limited ability to free up more room. That would mean they would have to convince Kerry Collins, Kordell Stewart, Jeff Blake or whoever to sign for close to the league's minimum salary. Another consideration would be Kurt Warner in June when he's cut by the 49ers. <!--END CLAYTON-->

Aside from Rattay, the 49ers don't have a quarterback on their roster who has thrown a pass in an NFL game.

Information from ESPN's John Clayton and The Associated Press was used in this report.


Wow...this is huge news for the 49ers. Dorsey is apparently going to get the reps now, and we're almost certainly going to be going after a vet of some sort. Why do I get this eerie vision of Kordell Stewart in a 49er uniform? Ugh...

And really? How do you seriously tear your groin while simply rolling out? :(

EDIT - How the hell did I get that little box there? And how do I get rid of it?

[Eaglesfan27]

I think Kurt Warner might suddenly have another team wooing him.

[Vince]

Niners only have 1.3 million in cap room, so we're going to only be able to offer a little bit of money.

[sabotai]

A team full of nobodies...and only 1.3 million in cap space.

Anyway, my first thought was Collins now has a job lined up. I think the Niners would pursue Collins before Warner because of the health issues with Warner...but then again, they might be able to better afford Warner because of the issues.

Should be interesting to see this play out.

[Logan]

A team full of nobodies...and only 1.3 million in cap space

That's what happens when you still have Steve Young and Jerry Rice on your cap. :)

And by the way...

The San Francisco 49ers got bad news Friday evening when a magnetic resonance imaging exam

This might be the first time I've seen "MRI" actually defined, not just abbreviated, in a sports-related article.

[GoldenEagle]

Maybe Young will make a come back? :)

[druez]

i think collins

[kingfc22]

What the hell. Give it to Dorsey. The guy is a winner and the experience could be good for him. It's not like we're going anywhere anyways.

[druez]

its always fun to watch

[pennywisesb]

and the roller coaster that is the 9ers this year has started, lets just hope dennis "I'm still not NFL quality coaching material" erickson can keep them on the straight and narrow......Go Raiders!

[sachmo71]

Collins for whatever he can get. He just wants to start.

[Lathum]

they say Rattey will be back for the start of the season, but I agree with King, where is this team going anyway.

[sterlingice]

"The preliminary word is that he's had a serious tear of the upper groin area," Niners general manager Terry Donahue said late Friday.
There is no part of this sentence that makes any guy do anything but cross their legs and say "ouch".

SI

[Vince]

There is no part of this sentence that makes any guy do anything but cross their legs and say "ouch".

SI
Yeah, I get that feeling when Donahue says anything too.

[Alf]

That's a nice boost for Dorsey !

[Samdari]

The niners would be insane to trust their season to Dorsey. There are minimum physical abilities required to play NFL QB, and he does not have them. I think they will have to go for Collins. It does not look like he is going to get true starter money from anyone, so why not play for SF for the minimum for a year.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Well, external options right now include Collins of course, as well as Warner, Couch, Stewart, Testaverde... not really premium choice, eh ?

ps : I 'm surprised we haven't heard anything from Darkiller yet... :)

[cthomer5000]

This is the best news Kerry Collins has heard in a few weeks...

[kingfc22]

The niners would be insane to trust their season to Dorsey.
Why? Is Rattay or Collins going to get us to the playoffs with our current cast of characters? I think not.

There are minimum physical abilities required to play NFL QB, and he does not have them.
Isn't that what they said when he was playing QB for Miami? If I remember correctly, he won a national title and was robbed of another one. Resurrecting a national power doesn't count for anything though.


I think they will have to go for Collins.
We just got rid of Garcia because of cap room. We are still in cap trouble and we could use that $1.3M to sign some players to add depth, not a QB that will play for the team for 1 yr. or 2. How is that going to help us in the future?. Let me say again, we are NOT going anywhere this season.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Let me say again, we are NOT going anywhere this season.
You still need 11 players on the field though, don't you ?

[Darkiller]

Oh my...

Well, No way I want Kordell Stewart to ever wear a 49er uniform.

I'd rather see Dorsey play.
It's useless to waste time with a Blake or a Stewart...

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Oh my...

Well, No way I want Kordell Stewart to ever wear a 49er uniform.

I'd rather see Dorsey play.
It's useless to waste time with a Blake or a Stewart...

You never know, if signed Kordell might be the best reciever on your roster. Oh, right, he still insists on being a QB.

[finkenst]

Isn't that what they said when he was playing QB for Miami? If I remember correctly, he won a national title and was robbed of another one. Resurrecting a national power doesn't count for anything though.
when exactly was miami robbed of a national championship?

[mckerney]

when exactly was miami robbed of a national championship?

About 20 seconds after the game against OSU ended.

[sachmo71]

I (Saints) just signed Kordell in the WigFL.


:(


Isn't this the same injury that Fred Taylor had the year before last? I thought he was out for most of the year. I remember it because the goofball was on his way to the inzone, untouched, when he fell to the ground and fumbled the ball. He scored me -3 fantasy points for the game. Jerk.

[WSUCougar]

That's what happens when you still have Steve Young and Jerry Rice on your cap.And Dwight Clark. And Ronnie Lott. And John Brodie. And...

:D

[Samdari]

Why? Is Rattay or Collins going to get us to the playoffs with our current cast of characters? I think not.


Isn't that what they said when he was playing QB for Miami? If I remember correctly, he won a national title and was robbed of another one. Resurrecting a national power doesn't count for anything though.


We just got rid of Garcia because of cap room. We are still in cap trouble and we could use that $1.3M to sign some players to add depth, not a QB that will play for the team for 1 yr. or 2. How is that going to help us in the future?. Let me say again, we are NOT going anywhere this season.

Danny Wuerful won a national championship at Florida. He was a great college QB. Ty Detmer was another great college QB. Neither of them were successful in the pros due to a lack of the minimum arm strength required to play the position in the NFL. You don't have to be able to throw the ball 50 yards to successfully play QB in the NFL, but you do need to get it to the sideline quickly, and I don't think Dorsey will be able to do that. Dorsey, in his own right a great college QB, has the same limitations as Woeful and Detmer.

You are right about Rattay not leading them anywhere this year - the rest of the team is not playoff caliber. With Collins they could avoid being the laughingstock of the league. If you notice above, I do not mention investing serious money in Collins, I was talking about a one-year veteran minimum contract. While it seems ludicrous for a QB of Collins' caliber to play for that, it seems that most teams are in a situation where bringing someone like Collins in will unsettle things, so he is going to have trouble finding a job. The 49ers were one of those teams before this.

[sabotai]

Why would Rice and Young still be on the 49er's cap?

[dawgfan]

When you see all the 1st round draft picks that played on Miami with Dorsey, it becomes easier to see why that team was so dominant yet Dorsey is not very highly regarded as a pro QB. I'm not going to suggest it's not possible for him to become a decent pro QB, but the fact he was so successful at Miami doesn't sway me that much given the talent level he had around him.

[Vince]

Not that I'm saying I'm happy about Dorsey...but he did look really good every time he played in the preseason last year. Sure it's preseason, and it doesn't mean much...but the things that he DOES have control over (where he puts his passes, how they look) looked good as well. Makes me a little more confident, but not too much.

[Sharpieman]

A team full of nobodies...and only 1.3 million in cap space.

Ah yes a team of nobodies with All-pro Julian Peterson, Tony Parrish, Andre Carter, Ahmed Plummer and Rashuan Woods.

I don't see this as a horrible thing for the Niners. Rattay should be back at the start of the season and if he's still injured I don't see why Ken Dorsey shouldn't start. Why go get Kurt Warner, a 3 year fluke or Kerry Collins who has declining abilities. Give the ball to a young QB, they aren't looking to go to the playoffs anyway. Time to develop young players and they got 4 young QB's to give a chance to, Dorsey, Pickett, Rattay and Doman.

[Darkiller]

agree.

[ice4277]

Lions would probably be interested in unloading Mike McMahon for the right price. They were in discussions with the Browns for a third-round pick before Cleveland picked up Garcia.

[Sun Tzu]

The 49ers haters come out in roves when there's a tiny break of bad news in Ninerland. Common guys, get a life.

Rattay will be back by the beggining of the season, it has already been stated. So please explain to me how him being injuried now (it's May...remember?) is going to affect the 49ers playoff chances. Also, anybody who calls this 49er team "a team of nobody's" knows next to nothing about the players on the roster. The 49ers are low on cap room now, but in 2 years (thanks to the players they released) will have close to 20 million dollars in cap space.

[Vince]

I'm wondering if the Niners have learned, though...or are we going to be in cap hell in another 5 years?

Seriously though...'tiny break of bad news' is a bit misleading. Rattay as our starter was bad enough...he's already had 100+ pro snaps. NONE of the other QBs on our roster have EVER taken an NFL snap. That's huge news. Especially for a team with only $1.3 million in cap room. What worries me is that the 49ers are going to manage to get one of the QBs that are FAs for close to the league minimum, then consider keeping them the starter once Rattay is healthy again. It seems to me that it is obvious sticking with a QB that isn't currently on the roster is a bad move for this team...that this might throw us off the (admittedly difficult) path of sticking with what we have. As it is, we have 4 QBs right now (perhaps more, but I think it's only 4): Rattay, Dorsey, Doman and Pickett. ONE of them will be good enough to play in the NFL at some point, even if they aren't the next 'chosen one' for the 49ers. Bringing in a vet, while it might help to develop some of the younger guys, will do little more than stunt their growth, in my opinion, especially considering the vets that are available.

PS - Calling Warner a 3-year wonder is a bit of a slight to him...I think he's better than that.

[Logan]

Lions would probably be interested in unloading Mike McMahon for the right price. They were in discussions with the Browns for a third-round pick before Cleveland picked up Garcia.

As a Niner fan, and a Rutgers guy, I would love McMahon on my team. He just never got the chance he deserved, with Harrington on the roster. There's no doubt in my mind that he could be a legit NFL QB.

[mckerney]

As a Niner fan, and a Rutgers guy, I would love McMahon on my team. He just never got the chance he deserved, with Harrington on the roster. There's no doubt in my mind that he could be a legit NFL QB.

McMahon has completed 42% of his passes in the NFL, and while at Rutgers he completed 49%. Not exactly numbers of a guy that I'd think of as a legit NFL QB.

If I were San Francisco I'd rather have Ken Dorsey start than a guy who has only once completed more than half his passes above the high school level.

[mckerney]

Dola:

To me McMahon seems to be a guy who's built his reputation on being a guy who can be exciting to watch rather than being a guy who gets results on the field.

[Sharpieman]

I'm wondering if the Niners have learned, though...or are we going to be in cap hell in another 5 years?

Seriously though...'tiny break of bad news' is a bit misleading. Rattay as our starter was bad enough...he's already had 100+ pro snaps. NONE of the other QBs on our roster have EVER taken an NFL snap. That's huge news. Especially for a team with only $1.3 million in cap room. What worries me is that the 49ers are going to manage to get one of the QBs that are FAs for close to the league minimum, then consider keeping them the starter once Rattay is healthy again. It seems to me that it is obvious sticking with a QB that isn't currently on the roster is a bad move for this team...that this might throw us off the (admittedly difficult) path of sticking with what we have. As it is, we have 4 QBs right now (perhaps more, but I think it's only 4): Rattay, Dorsey, Doman and Pickett. ONE of them will be good enough to play in the NFL at some point, even if they aren't the next 'chosen one' for the 49ers. Bringing in a vet, while it might help to develop some of the younger guys, will do little more than stunt their growth, in my opinion, especially considering the vets that are available.

PS - Calling Warner a 3-year wonder is a bit of a slight to him...I think he's better than that.
I'm worried about the possible starters this year too and I agree with you that bringing in a vet would be a horrible idea. I stand by the Warner comment until he proves he's not a 3-year wonder. He had 4 Touchdowns and 12 INT's in the last 2 years combined. You could blame injuries, but he still made stupid decisions. He's not a great QB by default he has to prove he deserves that title.

[Logan]

McMahon has completed 42% of his passes in the NFL, and while at Rutgers he completed 49%. Not exactly numbers of a guy that I'd think of as a legit NFL QB.

If I were San Francisco I'd rather have Ken Dorsey start than a guy who has only once completed more than half his passes above the high school level.

1. Is it really fair to go by his NFL stats? He's barely played, and when he did, he didn't have much talent on the offensive side. Plus he was playing as a rookie/second-year QB, and it would take more time than that for a guy like him to develop.

2. 49% is a miracle with the team he had in college.

I'll stand by what I say. He deserves a shot to be a starting QB.

[ice4277]

Dola:

To me McMahon seems to be a guy who's built his reputation on being a guy who can be exciting to watch rather than being a guy who gets results on the field.
This is a good way of looking at it. I think McMahon can be a very solid backup QB who, for short periods of time, can bring a different dynamic onto the field. However, if you put him out for an extended period of time, say, as a starter, his faults readily become apparent.

[cthomer5000]

Dola:

To me McMahon seems to be a guy who's built his reputation on being a guy who can be exciting to watch rather than being a guy who gets results on the field.
I saw his college games in person. You cannot blame him, considering the talent level surrounding him.

[Darkiller]

As a 49er fan, I'd love the team to stick to its plan and avoid the temptation of signing a veteran QB and instead develop the young Quarterbacks (Rattay, Dorsey, Doman and rookie Cody Pickett).

We're not going to win the SuperBowl this year anyway.

[Sun Tzu]

from sf49ers.com

<b>Rattay To Have Surgery Tuesday</b>
Saturday, May 08, 2004


http://www.sf49ers.com/SiteImages/News/Image7614.7.jpg
Tim Rattay will have surgery Tuesday.

Tim Rattay will have surgery Tuesday morning to repair the torn groin he suffered during Friday’s workout. The procedure will be performed by team orthopedist Dr. Michael Dillingham.

“The muscle came off the bone, it was obviously serious,” head coach Dennis Erickson said. “He’s looking at anywhere from 3-4 months of healing time. We all felt that surgery was the best option and would give him the best chance to heal.”

The blow is a crushing one for Rattay who entered his first camp as the 49ers starting quarterback. The good news, if there is some to be found, is that the initial diagnosis has him returning to the field sometime in training camp.

“He’ll be back. It’s not a season ending injury by any means,” Erickson said.

The 49ers head coach also reiterated that the team will discuss adding a veteran quarterback after Tuesday’s surgery. He indicated that adding a veteran would be something the 49ers will consider carefully and that there are salary cap ramifications to consider along with the fact they expect Rattay to be back.

“Tim Rattay should be, probably will be, our starter for the opening game,” Erickson said. “He is going to be our guy. This sets his progress back because he’ll miss this camp and the two in June. But we expect him to be our guy.”

-----------------

There. No REAL reason to believe the 49ers will use cap space to sign a QB. He'll be back by openning day. Any further questions? Any more Kurt Warner/McMahon/Collins talk? Who came up with the idea of the Niners signing a vet QB anyway? Why would a team sign a vet QB when their starting QB isn't even going to miss <i>pre-season</i>?

I think we need a smiley face with an animation of banging his head into a brick wall.

[judicial clerk]

And to think, this was the team that once had Joe Montana starting with Steve Young backing him up.

[fantastic flying froggies]

I think we need a smiley face with an animation of banging his head into a brick wall.
Is that the one you were looking for ? http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_banghead.gif (http://java_script_:emoticon(':banghead:')/)

[cthomer5000]

Why would a team sign a vet QB when their starting QB isn't even going to miss pre-season?

I think we need a smiley face with an animation of banging his head into a brick wall.Let's do a little math. The article talks about 3-4 months of healing time on the injury. Surgery is this Tuesday.

early estimate: August 11th
late estimate: September 11th

Now, that doesn't mean he'll be ready to jump into a lineup on either of those dates, it means he'll be ready to resume working out and doing normal things on that date. Do you think he'll immediately be in game shape when his injury is healed? Hell no, it'll probably take at least a month to regain full strength. So now you're talking about him being 100% either by opening day or a month into the season.

Hes going to miss all of training camp before the 1st pre-season game. Missing significant practice time, and having an injury that is notoriously easy to aggrivate. Eevery year we hear about someone with a hamstring injury who will be back in a month - but ends up missing the entire season (Fred Taylor and Aaron Glenn come to mind as recent examples).

This combined with the fact that the 49ers seem like they could be one of the worst teams in the league makes us (as fans) speculate that they should go after a veteran QB. The media has also discussed this, so that's what's fueling our further discussion.

Don't act as if this is the craziest notion you can imagine.

[cthomer5000]

Amazing! Even the 49ers GM must be fooled into thinking they might sign a veteran QB. :rolleyes:


General manager Terry Donahue said the team would wait until after Rattay's surgery to determine whether it will attempt to acquire a veteran quarterback to bolster the position.

"We obviously are thinking about possibilities as I speak," Donahue said Saturday. "One of the possibilities is we don't do anything. We just continue to coach the guys that are able to practice and let them practice and get their reps and experience."

The other alternative, Donahue said, is to seek a trade for an experienced veteran or consider an experienced free agent.

The team's options are limited because it is only about $1.3 million below the NFL's salary cap of $80.582 million.

"We have other considerations we have to look at -- our cap and our cash," Donahue said. "There are a lot of different things we have to weigh when we are looking at this. We probably won't wait all that long if we do something. We have already begun to compile that information, so if we go that direction we will be ready to move."


full article at http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/05/08/bc.fbn.49ersminicamp.ap/index.html

[ISiddiqui]

To me McMahon seems to be a guy who's built his reputation on being a guy who can be exciting to watch rather than being a guy who gets results on the field.

As someone who saw him at Rutgers, I agree. Me and my ex used to joke that when he went to the Lions that he was a loser at college and he'll be a loser in the pros now :D. He just isn't that good, and he'd be the worst starting QB in the NFL if he was given the job.

[Sun Tzu]

I'd say the chances the 49ers are going to sign a vet QB are about as good as the chances of World Peace being declared tommorow...by Osama Bin Laden.

[Sun Tzu]

Dola

It bugs me sometimes how so many of the people who post here love to exagerate how ugly they think the 49ers roster is every year. Take 2002 for example. Somebody showed an old thread with "2002 NFL predictions". I would say about 80-90% of the people here expected the 49ers to win 2-5 games that season. I remember some people posting things like "I don't see how this team is going to win a single game this season", and "this team will have the worst record". The 49ers went 10-6 in 2002, and won a playoff game. Now it seems like teams are taking the same approach to the 2004 49ers, and to be quite honest I think this years team has a very large amount <i>more</i> talent than the 2002 squad. I expect Lloyd and Woods to tear things up as the new Wide Recievers, and Rattay to be in the top 3 in QB rating by years end. The defense is probably the youngest in the NFL, and is definetely top 5 material.

[JAG]

Take off the rose-colored glasses and tell me how things look then. I see a rookie starting at one wideout spot, at the other a guy who hasn't been better than a #3 WR starting as the #1 WR (you think he might see better coverage this year?) Rattay will have almost no time to work with them or the offense for a good time, so he'll need time to adjust. It would be a shock if their passing game was anything better than abysmal. I don't even know how to address the Rattay being in the top 3 in QB rating or defense being top 5 material except to say I would lay down a bet in an instant that neither of those things will happen this year.

[cthomer5000]

Dennis Erickson is the coach, and they have 2 new coordinators, a new QB, and lost their former starting RB and start wideout.

He should be coach of the year if they win 8 games. I expect 5-11 will be about where they finish - probably bottom 5 in the league.

[Vince]

Corey - Largely correct, but tough to say that losing Garrison Hearst is going to be a big thing...Barlow already had a ton of carries.

[Vince]

Dola - JAG, Lloyd was a rookie last year, and he looked really good. I'm not saying I'm not worried about having a second year player as our #1, but he's better than you're letting on.

[Sun Tzu]

Jag is looking at the 49ers with doomsday glasses.

[Sharpieman]

Garcia, Owens and Webster were the biggest losses this year. An unproven QB, Tim Rattay was supposed to be the new QB, now we don't know know who is going to be the starter. Lloyd and Woods are supposed to be the replacment for Owens, one of the top recievers in the league. Webster is a big loss because behind him is Rumph, Williams and a rookie CB. Those will be the biggest holes to fill this year and could possibly drop the Niners to 5-11.

On the other hand, there was 3 more losses that people like to point out. Deese, Stone and Hearst. I keep seeing people say that their QB won't have any time to throw. But let us remember that the Niners were breeding Kwame Harris to take over Deese's spot. They drafted John Smiley, arguably one of the best guards in the draft to take over Stone's spot. And Kevin Barlow, who has much more potential than Hearst did, will be starting at RB.

So basically, there are 3 big holes the Niners have to fill. We'll see how it pans out.

[Glengoyne]

The muscle pulled away from the bone.

Now that's gotta hurt.