Well this is just another reason for people to hate Electronic Arts

[Greyroofoo]

According to Sports Business Journal, EA is close to purchasing exclusive rights to the NFLPA license for the next FOUR years, at the price of 1 BILLION dollars

Looks like EA is worried that ESPN Football gonna surpass Madden in sales soon. But still, isn't there better way to spen 250 million a year? Like IMPROVING YOUR OWN DAMN GAME.

[Cuckoo]

Wow, not good at all.

[Chubby]

According to Sports Business Journal, EA is close to purchasing exclusive rights to the NFLPA license for the next FOUR years, at the price of 1 BILLION dollars

Looks like EA is worried that ESPN Football gonna surpass Madden in sales soon. But still, isn't there better way to spen 250 million a year? Like IMPROVING YOUR OWN DAMN GAME.

in the press conference they said it was for "one milllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllion dollars"

[WussGawd]

This does of course lead one to wonder whether Sega might have the makings of an anti-trust case though.

[Eaglesfan27]

Darn, I'm a fan of Madden but the competition between them and Sega is only good for fans of both as they push each other to improve. I hope this doesn't happen :(

[Chubby]

This does of course lead one to wonder whether Sega might have the makings of an anti-trust case though.

based on what? they aren't prohibited from making a football game.

Sega would win right after ABC wins their anti-trust suit cause they can't show the NCAA Mens Basketball Tournament :rolleyes:

[stevew]

Man, this just isnt good for competition. And a billion dollars for the Liscense? I just dont think that they can generate enough sales in the gmae to pay for that. Madden sells, what, like 5-10 mil copies a year at the most?

[SackAttack]

Sure, and other companies can theoretically make browsers, but without them being embedded in Windows, do you think they're going to achieve anything close to the level of penetration that IE does?

I grant you, the NFL and EA are two separate entities, but that's still essentially conjoining Sega from fair competition. I don't know that it's anti-trust, but I'd imagine it's not exactly upright business practices, either.

[Chubby]

Sure, and other companies can theoretically make browsers, but without them being embedded in Windows, do you think they're going to achieve anything close to the level of penetration that IE does?

I grant you, the NFL and EA are two separate entities, but that's still essentially conjoining Sega from fair competition. I don't know that it's anti-trust, but I'd imagine it's not exactly upright business practices, either.

I never said it was ethical OR in the best interests of gamers (it isn't) but the idea of a anti-trust suit is laughable.

[SackAttack]

See, that's the thing. All I'm saying is that I could see a suit of some kind succeeding, just that I'm not entirely sure it would be an anti-trust suit that'd get filed.

[kingnebwsu]

Dang, people wonder why I boycott EA products...

For those who hate M$, how does this rank with some of the shit they pulled? I'd say pretty comparable.

Fuck EA.

[Greyroofoo]

I've been a Madden fanboy until now. I think I'll be buying ESPN this year. At least someone usually makes rosters for sports games.

How long did it take for the Real Name file for FoF to come out?

[Chubby]

See, that's the thing. All I'm saying is that I could see a suit of some kind succeeding, just that I'm not entirely sure it would be an anti-trust suit that'd get filed.

Oh I'm sure there's a suit if this is true but what are they going to sue over? There's nothing I can see them winning. A group has a right to sell their rights to whomever they want, see - every professional sports league. We've had sports games without licenses (not since the early 90s but still) before and we may again I guess...

[Chubby]

Dang, people wonder why I boycott EA products...

For those who hate M$, how does this rank with some of the shit they pulled? I'd say pretty comparable.

Fuck EA.
well it hasn't happened yet.

[kingnebwsu]

I have a sinking feeling that it will. Shit with big companies pisses me off (shakes fist at the man).

[Chubby]

I have a sinking feeling that it will. Shit with big companies pisses me off (shakes fist at the man).

and who caters to big business? the republicans! yet another reason to vote Kerry :D

[SackAttack]

So THAT'S how you ignore a user.

[Chubby]

:D

[Eaglesfan27]

:D

You forget that he can't see your reaction ;)

[ISiddiqui]

Btw this anti-trust stuff is funny :D. The NFL has the right to sell their rights exclusively to one business. To say otherwise would be to say that certain game companies cannot sell exclusively to one console!

[Chubby]

Btw this anti-trust stuff is funny :D. The NFL has the right to sell their rights exclusively to one business. To say otherwise would be to say that certain game companies cannot sell exclusively to one console!
Exactly, or as I said above, that the NCAA can't sell exclusive TV rights to their men's bball tourny.

[DeToxRox]

And if Sega had done this you guys would be saying ... ?

[Sun Tzu]

And if Sega had done this you guys would be saying ... ?

I'm Rick James bitch.

[Sun Tzu]

dola

I appologize for my last two posts. I however will NOT appologize for the following.

I enjoyed Battlefield Earth.

[Greyroofoo]

I'm Rick James bitch.
Read:
http://www.maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=chappelle

[Sun Tzu]

Tommy Maddox is a funny guy. His web designing skills are much better than those of Eli Manning to boot.

[illinifan999]

Madden > ESPN NFL Football

[SirFozzie]

Madden < ESPN NFL Football

Fixed your OBVIOUS typo there.

[kingnebwsu]

Voting is overrated.

As for if Sega ever did this...yeah, that'd never happen. You think the NFLPA would ever ignore Madden? Never.

[Hurst2112]

According to Sports Business Journal, EA is close to purchasing exclusive rights to the NFLPA license for the next FOUR years, at the price of 1 BILLION dollars

Looks like EA is worried that ESPN Football gonna surpass Madden in sales soon. But still, isn't there better way to spen 250 million a year? Like IMPROVING YOUR OWN DAMN GAME.

What does this actually mean? Is EA gonna be the only company that will be able to use the NFLPA license...for any and all games? Is it console and PC exclusive?

Seeing as how most text games have editable player files, this isn't an issue. Just curious as to what is in the details.

I guess Tecmo is screwed. :D ;)

[Greyroofoo]

I think it means only EA can use real player names or likeness in their games. There has to be something else is EA is willing to invest $1,000,000,000 in it.

It pisses me off that EA is willing to use that dough to slightly hinder the competition, instead of spending the money to improve its game

[oykib]

Let Madden do it. I don't really care. I think that would lead Sega to even more innovation.

Especially since most players are big on Franchise mode anyway, the real names thing ain't that important. I never bothered to apply the Real Players file to FOF.

[Tekneek]

The problem is not what EA is doing. They are not the ones giving the finger to the fans. It's the NFLPA who would rather take the big payday than do what might be in the best interest of its fans. Blame the right party, please.

[ice4277]

Let Madden do it. I don't really care. I think that would lead Sega to even more innovation.

Especially since most players are big on Franchise mode anyway, the real names thing ain't that important. I never bothered to apply the Real Players file to FOF.
The problem is that I think you may be confusing text simmers with most thumb jockeys. I don't play Madden/ESPN NFL to run an in-depth 30-year franchise. I run it to play all the games in a couple of seasons. Most people will never get to the point where the real players are no longer in a game through retirement. Not to mention, its easy to make a player file for a game on the PC, but good luck getting that to many people who are using a PS2, or an XBox without Live.

[wig]

This could be a huge mistake for EA.

[wig]

There is almost no way they can recover this money through sales.

[DeToxRox]

I am expecting more in-game advertising to help with some of that cost in the future.

[wig]

I am expecting more in-game advertising to help with some of that cost in the future.

That will hurt them even more.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Can't Sega circumvent this with the ESPN license anyways?

[Tekneek]

There is almost no way they can recover this money through sales.

This is what you do when you aren't willing to keep up with the competition in terms of quality, development, innovation, etc. You just throw so much money around that you get "exclusives" that are designed to eliminate the competition. It would seem better for them to build their brand and reputation by spending the money inside their games, which could use some of the help.

[Noop]

I still will be buying Ncaa 2005 and Madden 2005 I don't see the big...ESPN can still do there thing if they want hell I am quite sure their game will be able to download real roster where they'll say the name so it doesn't matter.

[Tekneek]

I still will be buying Ncaa 2005 and Madden 2005 I don't see the big...ESPN can still do there thing if they want hell I am quite sure their game will be able to download real roster where they'll say the name so it doesn't matter.

You are saying that the typical buyer of the games is savvy enough to do such things? These are 'plug and play' kinda people, not 'plug, download, tweak, configure, etc' people. I expect that more people will avoid a 'pro football' console game that does not have 'real players' out of the box.

[Cringer]

Sega can change to another league now, CFL? Arena? Maybe do a historical USFL game..............

[Anthony]

i expect Sega to have more life-like situations pop up in their game as a result of not having to "pussy-fy" their game. stuff like suspensions for having illegal substances, training camp hold-outs, etc. these are things FOF was able to do somewhat because it's not endorsed by the NFLPA.

[Noop]

You are saying that the typical buyer of the games is savvy enough to do such things? These are 'plug and play' kinda people, not 'plug, download, tweak, configure, etc' people. I expect that more people will avoid a 'pro football' console game that does not have 'real players' out of the box.
Put it this way like HA said they will add so much stuff it will start to gain a cult following... but I see ur point.

[illinifan999]

I expect that more people will avoid a 'pro football' console game that does not have 'real players' out of the box. Isn't that the point?

And SEGA's game sucks. Not a big fan of the jiraid, wasn't too fond of the Franchise. Only thing that kept me playing it was First person, and that got old after awhile.

Edit: The only SEGA football game I haven't played was the first one.

[ice4277]

Put it this way like HA said they will add so much stuff it will start to gain a cult following... but I see ur point.
Unfortunately, big console developers are not after a 'cult following'. This is not a one-man show like FOF. If they are not able to get a decent enough return on their investment, they will stop making these games, its a simple as that. We've seen what has happened to EA's franchises when they have almost no competition (NHL anybody?) Nice to be a stockholder, bad to be a game player.

[Eilim]

Theres only one thing that really worries me about this (and I'm a Madden fanboy, through and through.) and I'd need someone with more knowledge of copyright law to inform me on it.. While the NFL tends not to chase down people for putting out 3rd party rosters sets after the fact, wouldn't EA as a sole licensee be able to go after people putting out rosters and effectively shut them down?

[SackAttack]

Ellim, I think it would depend on whether or not the roster set makers were profiting by their actions. If they were distributing the sets for free, they'd probably be in better shape than if they were charging for it (which would open them up to legal liability, I would think).

[Tekneek]

Ellim, I think it would depend on whether or not the roster set makers were profiting by their actions. If they were distributing the sets for free, they'd probably be in better shape than if they were charging for it (which would open them up to legal liability, I would think).

Better chance of getting away with it if it is entirely free, but that does guarantee them an exemption.

[Greyroofoo]

I dunno if EA would waste the resources going after roster makers.

[Eilim]

Normally I'd agree, but with this much of an investment in the "sole rights" I could see them pressuring the NFL to perhaps enforce it more. "Why did we pay this much if your not enforcing your rights and our competitor for all intents and purposes has NFL player rosters..". Again, this is an area I'm not the most familiar with, but isn't it true that if you openly let violations of your IP happen long enough you for all intents and purposes lose the ability to protect it? I bring this up because many of the companies that are insanely strict about their IP mention this as the main reason they crack down so hard on even well meaning fans.

The main reason that this intrigues me so much is this is one case where I could see strict adherence to the copyright affecting multiple companies a noticable amount. While there are many people who prefer fictional leagues (myself being one of them.) in the console sports market a license and/or "real names" can make or break a title. Also, with the amount EA is supposedly paying, I doubt this license is limited to consoles.

Anyways, enough babbling from me, off to do some googling and read up as much as I can on this.

[Mota]

With "personal storage space" starting in 3.0 of Xbox Live, all it takes is one person to put their "real life" roster online and you can download it. Live could make things fairly easy to do.

[finkenst]

Eilim,

It's not up to the nFL to enforce or not enforce it. The deal is with the Players' Association (NFLPA) not the league.

This is the same sort of thing as to why you don't (or didn't) see Lavar Arrington in the Madden2004 or Barry Bonds in the latest crop of MLB games...

[sterlingice]

The fact that they are even trying to do this just boggles my mind.

What does this actually mean? Is EA gonna be the only company that will be able to use the NFLPA license...for any and all games? Is it console and PC exclusive?
There's no way they pay $1B unless it guarantees that no one else can use the names.

To try and recoup some of the costs, they use their NFL players in other sports:
"And in NBA Live, Tony Gonzalez looks like he did in college with 31 points for the Utah Jazz"

"Barry Bonds would have led the league in home runs if not for the spectacular season by Drew Bledsoe"

Why stop there?

"And in Lord of the Rings, you can play as Frodo, Legolas, Aragorn, or Donovan McNabb as you try and save Middle Earth."

"Play 007, Brian Urlacher, trying to stop the insidious Brett Favre's plans!"

So, everyone ready for ESPN Football where you can play as Michael Vock or Peyton Munning?

SI

[Shkspr]

You know, if this looks like it's going to happen, there isn't a damn thing Sega can do to legally stop it....but maybe ESPN can do something.

"Hey, is this Mr. Lewis? Yeah, it's ESPN legal here. Ray, we wanted to talk about that whle murder thing again. Yeah, dead issue...oh, sorry, shouldn't have said dead. Anyway, we realize it's been a long time, but we thought hey, why not develop a whole mini-series about the incident for our TV-movie department? We figure we'd set it up right before the Ravens' opener, and promo it for two months with a dozen commercials a day saying "Ray Lewis is a murderer...or is he?" Yeah, turns out this stuff kills in the ratings...sorry, shouldn'ta said kills. Sensationalism is something we've tried to look down on, but with the loss of revenue from that licence we had with Sega, we've got to make up the shortfall somewhere. Hey, can you give me Ricky Williams' phone number? We want to get the inside scoop for our new Outside the Lines documentary, 'Videogames in the Stoned Age'. Thanks."

[General Mike]

If Sega couldn't get the NFLPA license, when they still have the NFL license, couldn't they just put position and number, like in the college games?

[Tekneek]

If Sega couldn't get the NFLPA license, when they still have the NFL license, couldn't they just put position and number, like in the college games?

And still lose out in the game wars? Sure!

[WussGawd]

My more considered opinion on this, between the fact that EA now will be offering XBox Live with the Madden franchise and this move, is that EA *will* kill Sega's sports business with its bigger marketing clout. The denizens of this board are a smart, sharp, unafraid to tweak bunch...but EA sells a lot more games to folks that just want to load and go, play the game. The lack of real players for a console game will kill Sega, pure and simple. They'd have to offer a "killer app" style alternative to beat it, and I don't think Sega has that.

It bothers me, because I can remember when Madden effectively helped kill off Sierra's FBPro series, and frankly, Madden 2004, even with all its PC game bells and whistles still can't hold a candle to the gameplay of FBPro '98.

Whether one prefers Madden or SEGA's NFL series, the fact that one will go away can't do anything but hurt gamers in the long run.

[nfg22]

Big thing here is ONLINE MODE. Sega has to host the servers and if it hosted by them then they cant use the real rosters even if made by an outside consumer or whatever. Who wants to play with players and teams u never heard of?

[finkenst]

Big thing here is ONLINE MODE. Sega has to host the servers and if it hosted by them then they cant use the real rosters even if made by an outside consumer or whatever. Who wants to play with players and teams u never heard of?
The teams can still be present in Sega's game if they have an NFL license. The original post mentioned it was EA and the NFLPA in bed together.

[Tekneek]

The teams can still be present in Sega's game if they have an NFL license. The original post mentioned it was EA and the NFLPA in bed together.

Correct. Sega could have all the right teams, with the right logos, and such, but none of the real players.

[nfg22]

Is it the same if you score with randy moss or joe shmoe?

[Tekneek]

Is it the same if you score with randy moss or joe shmoe?

To me? Yeah. To the kids who buy those games? Not likely.

[MJ4H]

I hate EA Sports because I hate catch-up AI.

[RedKingGold]

Printed from the latest edition of Street & Smiths SportsBusiness Journal (May 10th-16th, 2004):

--The headline and some information in a story in the May 3-9 issue on Electronic Arts' pending deal with the NFLPA's Players Inc. mischaracterized the terms of the deal. The billion-dollar figure mentioned in the story represents retail sales of te licensed products over a four-year period. Player's Inc. will be aid a percentage royalty on wholesale sales of any video games.

Also, neither article mentions that Electronic Arts will have EXCLUSIVE licensee rights and be the only game to have real NFL players.

Just the facts mam,

Mike

[DeToxRox]

Here is my question..

Even if rosters are put online, how many X-Box owners own X-Box live to get them?

Furthermore, I saw someone say now Sega can add training camp holdouts, etc, but really, it would be incredibly random I'd think because this is not a text-based sim. They won't put in that much time for stuff like that to be true to life I'd assume. I could be wrong obviously, but it just wouldn't make sense. It would detract from the game in my opinion if it's solely random.

I am sure EA has this money to burn on this aggrement, so kudos to them for doing it. You might not agree, but the fact of the matter is it was ballsy, and they tried it, so more power to them.

[Eaglesfan27]

The fact that they are even trying to do this just boggles my mind.


There's no way they pay $1B unless it guarantees that no one else can use the names.

To try and recoup some of the costs, they use their NFL players in other sports:
"And in NBA Live, Tony Gonzalez looks like he did in college with 31 points for the Utah Jazz"

"Barry Bonds would have led the league in home runs if not for the spectacular season by Drew Bledsoe"

Why stop there?

"And in Lord of the Rings, you can play as Frodo, Legolas, Aragorn, or Donovan McNabb as you try and save Middle Earth."

"Play 007, Brian Urlacher, trying to stop the insidious Brett Favre's plans!"

So, everyone ready for ESPN Football where you can play as Michael Vock or Peyton Munning?

SI

If Donovan is in the game, I just might have to buy Lord of the Rings ;)

[Celeval]

If that happened, you're be sure to see ESPN's Lavar Arrington football.

[Pumpy Tudors]

If that happened, you're be sure to see ESPN's Lavar Arrington football.

I figure you're joking and you may know this already, but Lavar Arrington has caved and signed up with the NFLPA. So much for that. :)

[Shkspr]

I was under the impression that LaVar had no intention of signing with the NFLPA, but that the infamous contract renegotiation he signed had failed to cross out that clause.

Maybe Sega can counter by becoming the exclusive NFL licensee, forcing Madden to go without actual team names and stadia.

[sterlingice]

I was under the impression that LaVar had no intention of signing with the NFLPA, but that the infamous contract renegotiation he signed had failed to cross out that clause.

Maybe Sega can counter by becoming the exclusive NFL licensee, forcing Madden to go without actual team names and stadia.
This could be the world's best nerd sissy pocket-protector slap fight in the history of the world! "You can't make games with Duante Culpepper and Randy Moss". "Oh yeah! Well, at least in our game, QB #11 and WR #84 don't play for the Minnesota Swedes!"

SI

[kingnebwsu]

That'd be sweet. Two companies bitch-slapping each other. Yeah, I'd be shocked if Sega EVER bitch-slapped anyone...

[Greyroofoo]

To me? Yeah. To the kids who buy those games? Not likely.

Console fans are rabid about having the latest up to date rosters

[ice4277]

Console fans are rabid about having the latest up to date rosters
OK, but, again, how are they going to get them? The majority of console gamers are not hooked up through an online service, and of those that are, I'm sure a good number of them would have no idea how to do this.

[Nyarlahotep]

OK, but, again, how are they going to get them? The majority of console gamers are not hooked up through an online service, and of those that are, I'm sure a good number of them would have no idea how to do this.
ps2rosters.com

[Hurst2112]

Sega could have probably done it if the didn't fork all that cash over to SI.

[ice4277]

ps2rosters.com
For which you either need to send in your memory card by mail or own a sharkport or x-port. Again, I'm not saying that it isn't possible; I send my mem card to Lidner every year for NCAA. All I'm saying is, this is not something that the majority of gamers are going to do.

[Joe Canadian]

If this happens I will never buy an EA Sports game again...

[Nyarlahotep]

For which you either need to send in your memory card by mail or own a sharkport or x-port. Again, I'm not saying that it isn't possible; I send my mem card to Lidner every year for NCAA. All I'm saying is, this is not something that the majority of gamers are going to do.
I couldn't care less about 100% accurate rosters, in fact I would prefer fictional rosters, and I know of that site and some other places to get rosters. If I or anyone I know felt having the correct names was that big a deal, everyone I know would end up with them if they wanted them and it would spread from there. With the ease of copying memory cards it doesn't take too many people getting it the way you describe before quite a few people could end up with it.

[stevew]

Now that I read some stuff on other boards, it makes a bit more sense.
Figure that this kills games like NFL Blitz too. Now Madden, NFL Street, and any other forthcoming EA football games will be the only one with the names. Perhaps they are planning some sort of "classic football game?" Would be sweet as hell if they did.

[dawgfan]

Folks, re-read this please:

The headline and some information in a story in the May 3-9 issue on Electronic Arts' pending deal with the NFLPA's Players Inc. mischaracterized the terms of the deal. The billion-dollar figure mentioned in the story represents retail sales of te licensed products over a four-year period. Player's Inc. will be aid a percentage royalty on wholesale sales of any video games.

EA has not purchased exclusive rights with the NFLPA. They renewed their contract, and the NFLPA will gain a percentage royalty on sales, which over a 4-year period equals around $1B.

In other words, this rumor is just that - a rumor and not true.

[Ragone]

Man i can't wait for sega's game now..

Starting at Tailback for the Kansas City Chiefs..

Deacon Homes

[Shkspr]

Folks, re-read this please:


:: poke :: How can we re-read something that's been posted for the first time? :) Linkage?

[dawgfan]

:: poke :: How can we re-read something that's been posted for the first time? :) Linkage?

Um, it was posted earlier in this thread. To wit:

Printed from the latest edition of Street & Smiths SportsBusiness Journal (May 10th-16th, 2004):

--The headline and some information in a story in the May 3-9 issue on Electronic Arts' pending deal with the NFLPA's Players Inc. mischaracterized the terms of the deal. The billion-dollar figure mentioned in the story represents retail sales of te licensed products over a four-year period. Player's Inc. will be aid a percentage royalty on wholesale sales of any video games.

Also, neither article mentions that Electronic Arts will have EXCLUSIVE licensee rights and be the only game to have real NFL players.

Just the facts mam,

Mike

[dawgfan]

Dola -

Besides the actual magazine quotes, some simple number-crunching would show just how unlikely this rumor is.

Consider - assuming all sales were made at full retail price (which isn't actually true, as game prices are lowered as the year progresses) EA would have to sell 20,000,000 units of Madden at $50 a pop over those 4 years just to generate $1B in sales. Once you start subtracting various costs associated with those sales, the sales figures necessary to cover this cost jump dramatically.

Simply put, a figure of $1B over 4 years for exclusive NFLPA rights would make absolutely no financial sense. Consider also that Madden is already by far the NFL game sales leader, and it makes even less sense. While the Sega/ESPN Football games are generally well-reviewed, they trail badly in sales to EA and Madden. There's little incentive for EA to freeze out the competition from having licensed players when they already dominate the market without an exclusive arrangement, and especially not at a price point of $1B for 4 years.

Now, it wouldn't surprise me if EA would consider discussing an exclusive arrangement with the NFLPA, but I can't see them paying anywhere close to $1B for the right to do so.

I think this is a pretty simple case of someone seriously misinterpreting a routine press release and starting a wild rumor based on that misinterpretation.

[Shkspr]

Ah, was assuming you posted it, and didn't see your name above.

Out of curiosity, is the original SBJ article posted anywhere besides the SBJ website (which appears to have taken down their free trial offer page)? If they never mentioned the exclusivity part, then that tidbit must have come from ESPN the mag, and I refuse to believe that ESPN the mag actually has readers. :)