The WNBA and ESPN

[CraigSca]

I'm watching Sportscenter, and they just showed highlights of the Columbus vs. Whoever game, and...I'm wondering why. Was there ANYONE watching Sportscenter this morning fearful that they actually missed the highlights from last night's WNBA games and would have to wait another hour to catch the repeat?!

Does ESPN still broadcast WNBA games? Are they being told to show highlights of these games by ABC (because ABC still broadcasts them)?

Does anyone really care about this league? I know it's backed by the NBA...but won't it just go away already? Am I the only one who finds this league tiresome? Or...am I way off base and there's a huge contingent of fans that I just don't see in my everyday life?

[Philliesfan980]

I'm watching Sportscenter, and they just showed highlights of the Columbus vs. Whoever game, and...I'm wondering why. Was there ANYONE watching Sportscenter this morning fearful that they actually missed the highlights from last night's WNBA games and would have to wait another hour to catch the repeat?!

Does ESPN still broadcast WNBA games? Are they being told to show highlights of these games by ABC (because ABC still broadcasts them)?

Does anyone really care about this league? I know it's backed by the NBA...but won't it just go away already? Am I the only one who finds this league tiresome? Or...am I way off base and there's a huge contingent of fans that I just don't see in my everyday life?

My friend and I were actually talking about the same thing the other day. How is this league staying afloat? Did ABC sign a huge long term deal or something? I don't see anyone wearing any merchandising or have any local TV contracts (are there any? I wouldnt know because my local area doesn't have a team). Maybe the salaries at this point are modest enough just to be supported by attendance revenue.

[Tekneek]

The costs of carrying the WNBA must be very close to zero.

[samifan24]

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I can't imagine the WNBA having much of a following outside of the basketball havens of Connecticut (plenty of people are psyched for Taurasi's return today) and maybe places with other big schools, like Tennessee. Up here in Southern New England, we've had numerous women's pro basketball teams do well even in failing leagues due to the sheer popularity of the sport here.

[rjolley]

Not everyone thinks basketball is only played by men. Women's basketball has a good following...not on par with the other major leagues, but a good following none the less. I actually enjoy watching the women's game. It's not as flashy as the men's game, but the players are very fundamentally sound and play with passion.

I think the biggest problem with the WNBA right now is that they didn't take over the markets where the ABL did well. They should move into Tennessee and Kansas City, for starters.

I don't think the WNBA will survive 5 more seasons, but I don't think it's because the players aren't talented. I think it has more to do with people thinking the only good basketball is played by men. Perception is everything.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm not a big WNBA fan, but for everyone who wants it to go away, I hope that something you enjoy just goes away, because I may or may not like it.

Thanks. Just passing through.

[ice4277]

The Detroit Shock, current WNBA champions, almost folded a year ago, and could have folded for this season, had they not won the NBA title. I give them another two years before they bite the dust.

I think some of the problems this league faces are similar to those that teams in the minor leagues face when they share a city with a team from the big league. There is only so much attention fans can give to all those different teams. I think it is going to be tough for any new league involving one of the four major sports to break in: there is so much attention paid to NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB, plus college sports, that there is very little room left for coverage of a new league. This has been very apparent in Detroit, which is by all accounts a great sports town, but one where the minor-league type teams have consistently failed. The Detroit Fury, our AFL team, is 99% likely to fold after this season, for many of the same reasons.

[Philliesfan980]

I'm not a big WNBA fan, but for everyone who wants it to go away, I hope that something you enjoy just goes away, because I may or may not like it.

Thanks. Just passing through.


I agree with that statement 100%. Although I don't like the WNBA at all, I can respect the fact that it is a legitimate sport and that it does have a fan base. The WNBA doesn't disrupt my life at all.

[Maple Leafs]

Here's my problem.

On the one hand, I resent the WNBA. They have every right to exist, of course, but I resent that everyone else has to pretend that its relevant. I resent Sportscenter showing highlights, when they know that nobody cares. I resent Sports Illustrated taking up space with WNBA talk they know that nobody reads. I find the whole thing to be tiresome and hollow.

On the other hand, I'm an NHL fan. And virtually everything you say about the WNBA could be said about the NHL these days too. And yet I insist that Sportscenter and Sports Illustrated cover hockey, just... well, just because.

So I guess, apparently, I'm a hypocrite.

[BishopMVP]

My friend and I were actually talking about the same thing the other day. How is this league staying afloat? Did ABC sign a huge long term deal or something? I don't see anyone wearing any merchandising or have any local TV contracts (are there any? I wouldnt know because my local area doesn't have a team). Maybe the salaries at this point are modest enough just to be supported by attendance revenue.The NBA (read: David Stern) connects marketing between the two leagues. It basically forces advertisers to buy time for WNBA games. If the WNBA were self-supporting it would have folded by now. I guess the thinking is that the NBA struggled a lot early on, and the suits hope that women's basketball can generate a decent following if it gets enough coverage and stays afloat for long enough.

[Easy Mac]

No offense, but if you think the women's game is more fundamentally sound, then you don't know the fundamentals of basketball.

[StormcloudCreations]

No offense, but if you think the women's game is more fundamentally sound, then you don't know the fundamentals of basketball.

Amen! I watched about 4 complete WNBA games, just so I could see what it was like. What I watched wasn't in the least fundamentally sound: Rampant turnovers, poor/over passing, very scattered talent as far as athleticism goes, and lousy shooting (consistently mid-upper 30's percentage wise as far as average). Pretty ugly stuff. :)

[rjolley]

I disagree. The NBA is the same way. Terrible shooting and rampant turnovers are prevalent there as well. Add in egos, ball hogs, and a super hype engine, and there you go.

What the NBA has going for it are the athletic stars. They make the game exciting to watch and puts buts in the seats.

ice: I agree with you about the cities. However, I think that's the way the ABL thought, and they folded quickly. What may be needed is a mixture between the WNBA and ABL approach...summer season, more non-NBA cities, and TV coverage.

Ah well, guess I'll enjoy the ladies for the next couple of years until it folds.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Amen! I watched about 4 complete WNBA games, just so I could see what it was like. What I watched wasn't in the least fundamentally sound: Rampant turnovers, poor/over passing, very scattered talent as far as athleticism goes, and lousy shooting (consistently mid-upper 30's percentage wise as far as average). Pretty ugly stuff. :)

Those weren't women. Ben Wallace and Brian Scalabrine just happen to have hair like that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't know what "WNBA attendance" figures represent; meaning I don't know if it's butts-in-seats, tickets sold, tickets distributed, or what.

But ...

From these stats
http://womensbasketballonline.com/wnba/attendance/attendance03.PDF
&
http://www.insidehoops.com/attendance.shtml

It appears that the WNBA average attendance is roughly half the NBA's average attendance.

If that's indeed the case, am I the only person who thinks that really doesn't seem half bad? I mean, how many other women's sports could draw half the crowd of the most closely equivalent men's sport?

All things considered, I'd say that's pretty decent.

Note: I might watch a grand total of 10 minutes of WNBA action in a season, and that's probably a little high. But after looking up the numbers, I was kinda surprised.

[Anthony]

i don't like the WNBA. but since i don't like it it doesn't bother me one way or the other if ESPN or SI covers it a little - if it's on TV i briefly change the channel and i just don't read any articles.

what they have to do is market the game to women. advertise during Opera, have ads in women's magazines, etc. men know the level of talent is not on par with the NBA, we just won't go for it. the only market the WNBA has is basketball starved regions (CT, Tenn), women, and families that have daughters who may be interested in the sport. boys grow up wanting to be Kobe and T-Mac, not Sheryl Swoopes and Lisa Leslie. men want to see flashy passing and dunks. WNBA shouldn't bother with us.

[Anthony]

btw, the only thing that bothers me more than the WNBA existing is guys who try to pretend that the WNBA is watchable and that the game is more "pure". you know, the guys who try to make you think that there's nothing wrong w/ the WNBA - it's us who have the problem cuz we're cavemen.

i wish they'd stop. pro women's bball is not good.

[Easy Mac]

Soccer comparisons:
<table x:str="" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="256" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 192pt;"> <col width="64" span="4" style="width: 48pt;"> <tbody><tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" width="64" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 48pt;">YEAR</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">MLS</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">WUSA</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">
</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="">2001</td> <td align="right" x:num="">14961</td> <td align="right" x:num="">8103</td> <td class="xl22" align="right" x:num="0.54160818127130539" x:fmla="=$C2/$B2">54%</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="">2002</td> <td align="right" x:num="">15821</td> <td align="right" x:num="">6969</td> <td class="xl22" align="right" x:num="0.44049048732697049" x:fmla="=$C3/$B3">44%</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="">2003</td> <td align="right" x:num="">14898</td> <td align="right" x:num="">6667</td> <td class="xl22" align="right" x:num="0.44750973285004697" x:fmla="=$C4/$B4">45%</td> </tr></tbody> </table>

[Sharpieman]

Wait, I SERIOUSLY did not know that the WNBA started playing games this year. When exactly did they start?

[Vince]

Like two days ago, I think. Today was Taurasi's second game ever.

[Sharpieman]

yawn

[Shucker]

Oddly enough, I just got home from the Seattle Storm/LA Spark game. Would I have paid for this game under normal conditions? No. Would I pay for any NBA game under any conditions? No.

Why in the hell did I go then? Well, my daughters team played a game before them. She is in the 8th grade and playing AAU basketball. It was a great opportunity for them and they loved it.

Then, since we were there, we stayeed and watched the Storm game. Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson from the Storm and Lisa Leslie from LA were the only people I had ever heard of. Under those conditions, already being there and not having any sort of macho status to uphold for anybody, we watched the game. I will say I enjoyed it. No it isn't the NBA with a bunch of dunks and solo/ego play. But that doesn't matter to me...I enjoy watching my kids and high school and college, whatever. It was pretty good basketball and entertaining. I guess that is what it takes, right?

To top it all off, my daughter had won some contest at practice as did 9 other girls from their teams where ever. When they introduced the players, each came out and met the young girls at center court, bringing them and autographed ball! Very nice. I can tell you it made my daughters day. Oh, and she had 6'5" (big for a girl) bring her her ball. She had bought her jersey right before the game so it made it all the more special. Do you think any of those NBA gangsta fucks would lower themselves to doing anything like that for their young fans??

I think what it boils down to is that while it certainly isn't everybody's cup of tea, and I don't think they pretend to be. But many people seem to enjoy it. It isn't hurting you, leave them alone. I for one can't understand the phenomenon behind watching cars drive around in circles for 500 miles, but some do and I am not going to start a movement to have it banned.

[Honolulu Blue]

how many other women's sports could draw half the crowd of the most closely equivalent men's sport?

Tennis, anyone?

[Tekneek]

Tennis, anyone?

There are many times when the women's tennis is outdrawing men's tennis in terms of attendance and television ratings. I know I've always found it more interesting over the years, for various reasons. :D. I watch the women's matches in the Grand Slams (and anytime I stumble upon WTA events on TV) and basically only watch Agassi matches on the men's side. It is the only sport where I find the women's game more appealing than the men's.

[Celeval]

what they have to do is market the game to women. advertise during Opera...
...and we'll return to Carmina Burana after these brief messages...

[Tekneek]

...and we'll return to Carmina Burana after these brief messages...

Awww yeah!

[RPI-Fan]

Soccer comparisons:
<table x:str="" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="256" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 192pt;"> <col width="64" span="4" style="width: 48pt;"> <tbody><tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" width="64" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 48pt;">YEAR</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">MLS</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">WUSA</td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;">
</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="">2001</td> <td align="right" x:num="">14961</td> <td align="right" x:num="">8103</td> <td class="xl22" align="right" x:num="0.54160818127130539" x:fmla="=$C2/$B2">54%</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="">2002</td> <td align="right" x:num="">15821</td> <td align="right" x:num="">6969</td> <td class="xl22" align="right" x:num="0.44049048732697049" x:fmla="=$C3/$B3">44%</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" style="height: 12.75pt;" x:num="">2003</td> <td align="right" x:num="">14898</td> <td align="right" x:num="">6667</td> <td class="xl22" align="right" x:num="0.44750973285004697" x:fmla="=$C4/$B4">45%</td> </tr></tbody> </table>

Kind of drifting, here, but I'm SHOCKED by those MLS numbers. I had thought teams struggled to get into the thousands for attendance most nights.

Hopefully this is a sign the MLS will stay afloat for a long time. (I'm a huge soccer fan, and I love the idea of having a small league where I have a good read on every single player).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tennis, anyone?
Point taken.

I was entirely thinking of team sports, not individual, and that error was/is completely on me.

[lynchjm24]

I think what it boils down to is that while it certainly isn't everybody's cup of tea, and I don't think they pretend to be. But many people seem to enjoy it. It isn't hurting you, leave them alone. I for one can't understand the phenomenon behind watching cars drive around in circles for 500 miles, but some do and I am not going to start a movement to have it banned.

The game has improved and has grown in popularity. I couldn't believe it when I read that the highest rated basketball game in the history of ESPN was this year's UConn/Tennessee final. Higher then any men's college or pro game on the network - and remember they were the home of the first round back in the day plus they hype every Yao/Shaq - Duke/Carolina game like the world is never going to see another again.

[Pumpy Tudors]

The game has improved and has grown in popularity. I couldn't believe it when I read that the highest rated basketball game in the history of ESPN was this year's UConn/Tennessee final. Higher then any men's college or pro game on the network - and remember they were the home of the first round back in the day plus they hype every Yao/Shaq - Duke/Carolina game like the world is never going to see another again.

Well, during the regular season, men's college basketball games are mainly enjoyed by fans of the teams or conferences represented in them. Someone who's really into the Pac-10 or Big East isn't extremely likely to enjoy a matchup between Indiana and Michigan. At least that's my guess. As for the NBA, well, for most teams, there's always another game in the next couple of days, so I wouldn't expect high ratings from most regular-season NBA games either. The UConn-Tennessee final this year was something special, so I would expect it to rate well. Yes, I'm surprised that it was the highest ever, but it's not really alarming, I guess.

At least that's my opinion.