Kobe case has new information

[MrBug708]

DNA of another man found in the victim (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5070072/)

If it turns out to be true, this case is done with.

[The Afoci]

Just because she had sex with another man doesn't mean the case is done with.

Although if they can show it shortly after the 'rape' then it doesn't hurt them at all either.

[VPI97]

If it turns out to be true, this case is done with.So it's only illegal to rape women who are virgins?

[SackAttack]

I don't think that's what he's saying, VPI.

But that's irrelevant. What I find the most interesting about this is that the prosecution requested a retest of some of the DNA samples, saying they potentially conflict with the alleged victim's testimony.

That's pretty damned significant in my eyes, if the prosecution are admitting that the accuser may not be telling the truth.

[Neuqua]

I have actually read in Psychology journals that it is not out of the ordinary to have a girl who was the victim of a rape, have sex within 48 hours of the incident. For some women, they just want the affection that comes with actuallywanting to have sex and it can sometime diminish the idea of how they were forced to do something they didn't want to do.

[BishopMVP]

If she had sex with another man after the alleged rape, and then lied about it in court, that would pretty much shred any credibility she had left and end any chance of a guilty verdict.

[Neuqua]

btw, i do not know if kobe is guilty or not, and would not prefer either verdict, just supplying some information I've read over the past few months. However relevant it is is up to the reader's discretion.

[SackAttack]

I have actually read in Psychology journals that it is not out of the ordinary to have a girl who was the victim of a rape, have sex within 48 hours of the incident. For some women, they just want the affection that comes with actuallywanting to have sex and it can sometime diminish the idea of how they were forced to do something they didn't want to do.

I can accept that. Lemme just say that I haven't heard where specifically the conflict in her testimony is supposed to have been regarding her sexual activity - whether it came before the alleged rape, or afterwards.

But that still casts some serious doubt on her credibility if she's levelled an accusation this serious at Kobe and then found to have lied under oath.

[Noop]

*Sings*Spinning Spinning Spinning out of control!!!!!!!

Lets all get down in a group...
lets open our ears to noop...
I am gonna spit some game...
while i try to enlighten your brain...
Its all the same, we just changed our cloths..
life is just a game, and in time your mind still grows...
Because we're spinning spinning spinning outta control......

[MrBug708]

If she had sex with another man after the alleged rape, and then lied about it in court, that would pretty much shred any credibility she had left and end any chance of a guilty verdict.

*nods* When it's word vs word and one of the sides lied in court, there really isn't much of a case.

[Noop]

^^Word.

[SackAttack]

wig, it wouldn't be as much of an issue if she told the truth. If she did in fact lie under oath, that causes credibility problems in the eyes of the judge, whereas if she had been truthful, the defense might still be trying to drag her through the mud ANYWAY - I'm not saying that wouldn't have happened - but it wouldn't be giving them extra ammunition, you know?

It's not like they need any help tearing her down.

...Although I still say that the so-called 'right to privacy' in these cases needs to extend both ways. If Kobe's identity is also protected, then do you really think this girl's life would be the media hell it's been since?

Shrug, that's all I got.

[MrBug708]

Dola

i'm sure the courts will also have a few questions on why the prosecution didn't consider listening to a third party DNA testing and just relied on their own.....

[MrBug708]

Heh...this should be the dola

[Noop]

Heh...this should be the dola
Well well I want to know is Kobe playing tonight.. I remember hearin he might not play the rest of the playoffs...unless of course i was dreaming while sportscenter played all morning.

[MrBug708]

The Finals are gonna be tough for Kobe and the Lakers. The Judge isn't a basketball fan and most of the key dates are during the finals. Not that it matters too much but the Defense hasn't asked for a delay once, while the prosecution has a feew times, to get things in order

[SackAttack]

From what I understand, the next potential court date isn't until the day after the Game 7 of the Finals.

So Kobe's in the clear from now 'til then, whatever happens.

[Noop]

The Finals are gonna be tough for Kobe and the Lakers. The Judge isn't a basketball fan and most of the key dates are during the finals. Not that it matters too much but the Defense hasn't asked for a delay once, while the prosecution has a feew times, to get things in order
Well its ok you still have Shaq but if he is off one night Kobe isn't there you are pretty much SOL. Ok thanks for the info... back to the topic...

No Comment.

[MrBug708]

Shaq's been to the Finals without Kobe before and didn't win....Without Kobe, we don't win.

In other news, local radio is talking about AI to LA for the first round pick. They need a PG

[stevew]

I think for Kobe's sake, and the sake of the Lakers, he should have sat this season out and had a trial earlier this year already. Figure if he was charged in July, he could have been in trial around Jan/Feb. Now he'd either be out pending sentancing, or he'd be home free. I dont understand why they pushed it back so much.

[Danny]

I think for Kobe's sake, and the sake of the Lakers, he should have sat this season out and had a trial earlier this year already. Figure if he was charged in July, he could have been in trial around Jan/Feb. Now he'd either be out pending sentancing, or he'd be home free. I dont understand why they pushed it back so much.

Did you not read what Mr Bug posted above, the delays have come form the prosecution. Also, considering the Lakers success this season even with the trial going on, how would it have been better for Kobe to sit out the year?

[MrBug708]

Can't say it was Kobe's decision. Generally the Judge makes the call, based on his schedule

[Neuqua]

The Finals are gonna be tough for Kobe and the Lakers. The Judge isn't a basketball fan and most of the key dates are during the finals. Not that it matters too much but the Defense hasn't asked for a delay once, while the prosecution has a feew times, to get things in order

I do not like to hear about how *difficult* all this has been for Kobe, and nothing frustrates me more than when the media portrays him as an incredible person who is going through so much adversity to play a game of basketball.

The guy brought it upon himself, if you are going to put a spotlight on how he is in Colorado one afternoon and in LA playing in the playoffs that very night, I do not need you telling me that it is an incredible performance. Its not like the guy catches a cab to the airport, buys a commercial ticket goes to Colorado, catches another cab to the courtroom. He flies on a private jet to Denver, takes a limo to the courtroom, stays for 15 minutes, takes a limo back and takes a private plane back to LA. Obviously there is a lot of mental stress that is involved in all of this but that is something he has brought on to himself. He screwed up, if it were anyother ball player in his position, I would feel the exact same way.

Leave the outstanding playoff performance titles to Isiah Thomas playing the 2nd half with a broken leg, or Magic playing as a Center in the place of Kareem or MJ scoring 35 with a stomach flu virus. Not for Kobe, atleast in this case.

[stevew]

Did you not read what Mr Bug posted above, the delays have come form the prosecution. Also, considering the Lakers success this season even with the trial going on, how would it have been better for Kobe to sit out the year?

You also realize that once he puts in a plea, they have to have a trial within 6 months?

[MrBug708]

Are you off your soapbox now Neuq?

Kobe has not once complained about what is going down, hasn't said he's being treated unfairly during the process, hasn't asked to be excused from any court dates, hasn't come in and talked about how tired he's been for the games. I don't see where you are coming from? You act as if he's been convicted when it's looking more and more like he won't even have to go through a trial. If he's found guilty, no doubt you won't hear many good things from me, but if he's found innocent or all charges are dropped I know you won't be saying, good guy, way to manage all that pressure of being falsely accused.

Your Laker hate is as bad as my Laker homerism Neuq. You've never liked Kobe, but I think you are bothered by all the MJ comparisions and harbor an extreme dislike for him to begin with.

Edit-To clarify who it was to.

[MrBug708]

You also realize that once he puts in a plea, they have to have a trial within 6 months?

He put in his plea a few weeks ago....so he has 5 months to go. You have a right to a speedy trial, but if you don't want to use that right, you don't have to.

What good would it have been for Kobe to sit around? He has stated numerous times that the Basketball court is his way of escaping all of his problems going on right now.

[Neuqua]

Again, where am I harping on the Lakers or Kobe on this issue?

I posted that I am frustrated by the media portraying him to be something he isn't, not Kobe. I only put the blame on Kobe that he had sex out of wedlock, I am not accusing him of rape, I have no feelings one way or another on the issue. If he kept it in his pants, he would not have had to go through all this hoopla to begin with. Yeah it happens all the time with professional athletes but that does not mean it is "ok" to do then.

This has NOTHING to do with my dislike of the Lakers. I don't want the Lakers to win because I dislike Karl Malone, he has nothing to do with the Lakers. Again, not that it is relevant.

[Franklinnoble]

Excqueeze me... but did you say the Lakers were going to trade their first round pick to Philly for Iverson?

You've been drinking my bong water again, haven't you?

[Maple Leafs]

I thought they'd already decided that her sexual past was irrelevant. If so, what does it matter if she had sex with someone else?

[SackAttack]

It isn't whether or not she had sex. It's whether or not she lied under oath about it.

Really, the same thing Clinton's impeachment proceedings came down to, only there's a 25 year prison sentence hinging on the outcome.

[Draft Dodger]

Excqueeze me... but did you say the Lakers were going to trade their first round pick to Philly for Iverson?

You've been drinking my bong water again, haven't you?

I personally think that Iverson and Bryant will be traded for each other somehow, but, then again, I hate basketball.

I also believe that Bryant is innocent.

[Neuqua]

"Iverson to LA"

I think he meant the Clippers. Iverson for the #2.

[SunDancer]

I personally think that Iverson and Bryant will be traded for each other somehow, but, then again, I hate basketball.

I also believe that Bryant is innocent.

Just curious, what makes you feel KB is innocent?

[Draft Dodger]

Just curious, what makes you feel KB is innocent?

most of it is gut feeling, which obviously has nothing to do with what would happen in a court of law. And it certainly isn't a blind "I love Kobe" thought, because, really I disliked Kobe before this all started, and I still do.

The more I hear about this woman, the more I doubt her credibility - I don't have any one particular reason for this. But, even more so, I have to ask myself WHY would Kobe Bryant rape someone? He puts the moves on this chick, she says no...so he moves on and gets another one. Certainly, there isn't a shortage of women who would take him up on his offer at a moments notice. It's not like she didn't know who he was, and, in this day and age of DNA evidence, if he does rape a woman he's going to get caught. It simply doesn't add up to me. I know that famous people do stupid things too, but this just seems like beyond stupid to me.

[BlingBlingKilla]

I think its funny that a guy named SackAttack is commenting in a rape topic.

Thats whack!

[Eaglesfan27]

Shaq's been to the Finals without Kobe before and didn't win....Without Kobe, we don't win.

In other news, local radio is talking about AI to LA for the first round pick. They need a PG

How can that work with the salary cap?

[Chief Rum]

Clippers have the room. They are oine of the few teams with loads of room under the cap.

Now, as a Clips fan, I would say you can keep AI and we'll go another direction. I don't want him in LA. :)

CR

[Franklinnoble]

Clippers have the room. They are oine of the few teams with loads of room under the cap.

Now, as a Clips fan, I would say you can keep AI and we'll go another direction. I don't want him in LA. :)

CR
Yeah, because everything the Clips have done to date has been so successful. ;)

I wouldn't want AI, either. I think I'd want new ownership for the Clippers, tho... Aren't there any wealthy casino owners or dot-com millionaires left that wanna own basketball teams?

[SackAttack]

Michael Jordan wants to own a team. ;)

[MrBug708]

I never said Lakers, I just said LA. Clips need a PG, AI is a PG, and there isn't anyone in the draft, especially at PG, worth the number 2 overall pick at PG

[Neuqua]

AI is not a PG.

The Clippers will trade down, and take either Nelson, Harris or Gordon.

[Noop]

Just curious, what makes you feel KB is innocent?
What makes you think Kobe's not innocent? Just curious...

[Samdari]

Shaq's been to the Finals without Kobe before and didn't win....Without Kobe, we don't win.

In other news, local radio is talking about AI to LA for the first round pick. They need a PG

Have you seen the Lakers' records with only one of the two playing?

With Shaq and no Kobe, their record is about the same as with Kobe.

With Kobe and no Shaq, they are below .500.

Its all about Shaq. Take him away from Kobe, and you've got Jerry Stackhouse.

[gstelmack]

I thought they'd already decided that her sexual past was irrelevant. If so, what does it matter if she had sex with someone else?
One of the key bits of evidence that she had been raped were minor injuries sustained during the encounter. The defense has been trying to prove she had sex AFTER the incident with Kobe but BEFORE going to the hospital, because this puts most of the physical evidence that this was rape into question because you don't know which partner caused the injuries. From what I've read, these aren't major inuries, just minor bruises and the like.

[Radii]

I posted that I am frustrated by the media portraying him to be something he isn't, not Kobe. I only put the blame on Kobe that he had sex out of wedlock, I am not accusing him of rape, I have no feelings one way or another on the issue. If he kept it in his pants, he would not have had to go through all this hoopla to begin with. Yeah it happens all the time with professional athletes but that does not mean it is "ok" to do then.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I don't hate the Lakers, though I do hate Karl Malone. I am indifferent towards Shaq and Kobe, and dislike the NBA in general, and will not watch a full NBA basketball game until game 5 or later of the finals, so I'm not a laker hater here or anything...

I fault the media for this I guess, but it absolutely turns my stomach when I get up on Sunday morning and hear the sports reporters talking about Kobe Bryant like he's a hero because of all the adversity that he has dealth with and still been able to have a good NBA season.

Listen, at *best* this is a man who cheated on his wife, got caught cheating on his wife and bought her a huge honkin' rock and gave it to her on national TV to try to buy her support.

Also at *best* he's only cheated on her once, but do any of us here really think this is the only woman he slept with?

At worst, he's guilty of rape/sexual assault.

How, in either of those scenarios, should Kobe be portrayed as a hero by the media?

[MrBug708]

Also at *best* he's only cheated on her once, but do any of us here really think this is the only woman he slept with?

The NBA is probably the biggest headache about all of those. The groupies at arena's are unbelievable. Not condoning it in anyway, but people like Jordan and numerous others have cheated on their spouse and are still glorified by the media.

[Samdari]

if he's found innocent or all charges are dropped I know you won't be saying, good guy, way to manage all that pressure of being falsely accused.

One thing I can assure you - he won't be found innocent. That's because that is not a verdict available in our legal system. He will in all likelihood be found not guilty, due mostly to him having more money available to throw at this trial than Eagle County, but that only means they did not have enough evidence to convict. Whether she consented or not - and I have no idea - him getting off due to economics was a foregone conclusion. You may regard such a verdict as exonerating him, or somehow proving his innocence, but I don't see it that way. In my mind, and I suspect in the minds of many who were adults during the OJ trial, a not guilty verdict will only confirm his wealth, not his innocence.

The problem with some of the things that are coming to light which makes it look more and more like he will get off is that none of them prove anything - his guilt or innnocence. If she had sex after Kobe, it does not mean she consented to sex with him, it just means any bruises on her girl parts don't prove that Kobe raped her. If she lied under oath once, it means any jury should be less likely to believe her, but does not prove she lied about her consent to sex with Kobe. If both of those things end up (her having sex between Kobe and reporting it) being factually true, there is enough doubt that he should not be convicted.

The end result of this will (very likely) be that he is found not guilty, but we the public will be no closer to knowing what really happened. A not guilty verdict will frankly not mean that he has been falsely accused, as you say above

[HornedFrog Purple]

From the comments I read on this board, I wonder why a woman raped by someone famous would ever come forward at all.

You have to remember, these women are just regular people put in a horrible situation. Do you really believe that they are going to have 100% accurate memory of what happened? Perhaps the shame and embarrassment of the situation makes them want to hide certain details.

For all you "her story doesn't make sense, she must be lying" people, do you know anyone who was raped and put through the court process? I do, and this is not unusual.

That is because of the court process itself. It is the job of the prosecution to prove the case and unfortunately one of the few ways they can do that is getting the victim's testimony unless of course there were other witnesses.

Defense Lawyer 101 says the easiest way to invoke reasonable doubt is to shatter the credibility of the victim in a rape case.

Sadly this goes for all rape cases not just ones involving celebrities. It is almost always the victim actually on trial.

[Franklinnoble]

That is because of the court process itself. It is the job of the prosecution to prove the case and unfortunately one of the few ways they can do that is getting the victim's testimony unless of course there were other witnesses.

Defense Lawyer 101 says the easiest way to invoke reasonable doubt is to shatter the credibility of the victim in a rape case.

Sadly this goes for all rape cases not just ones involving celebrities. It is almost always the victim actually on trial.
Don't get me started on another rant about what's wrong with the American injustice system...

You're exactly right... and more to the point, justice in this country is bought and paid for. Period. Kobe will get off, because Kobe has assloads of cash to pay the best defense attorneys this side of Johnny Cochrane, and no underpaid government employed prosecuting attorney can possibly compete with that.

[The Afoci]

It is a good thing Kobe has great lawyers to defend him against a public that assumes his guilt instantly.

[Radii]

The NBA is probably the biggest headache about all of those. The groupies at arena's are unbelievable. Not condoning it in anyway, but people like Jordan and numerous others have cheated on their spouse and are still glorified by the media.

Yeah, that's the tough part. And I iknow its rampant and everyone is screwing everyone(well, most everyone) in that kind of environment, I just have a problem with the media glorifying Kobe the way they are *during the trial*.

[heybrad]

It is a good thing Kobe has great lawyers to defend him against a public that assumes his guilt instantly.
Thank you The Afoci. If you went by what some are saying in this thread we might as well lynch Kobe now. There is no possible defense for rape according to some of you. Your story can be wrong because you were raped. You can lie to the investigators (as it seems to be coming out in this case), but you're not in the right frame of mind because you were raped. It seems like no matter what the accuser does some are ready to say.. "Well, she did that because she was raped."

[Noop]

I agree with The Afoci and HeyBrad. *Sings* Spinning Spinning Spinning Outta Control!!!!!

[Franklinnoble]

Bah. Kobe could have it a lot worse. I dare say that any black man who's NOT a celebrity and gets accused of rape by a white girl would have already been tried and sentenced by now.

[heybrad]

I agree with that. I think if theres anyone to be pissed at in this case its the prosecution. It seems to me they've handled their case horribly. I'm blow away by the fact that they went to the judge and told him the DNA test results conflict with their clients testimony so they'd like to retest. Huh... how many times are you going to retest to get your stories to match?

[Noop]

Frank I wanted to say that when someone said something about him having money so he will get off(Not to sure...dont feel like reading back) If he was Kobe Joe he would be in some state prison playing pitcher and catcher with his cell mate.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Thank you The Afoci. If you went by what some are saying in this thread we might as well lynch Kobe now. There is no possible defense for rape according to some of you. Your story can be wrong because you were raped. You can lie to the investigators (as it seems to be coming out in this case), but you're not in the right frame of mind because you were raped. It seems like no matter what the accuser does some are ready to say.. "Well, she did that because she was raped."

The numbers in terms of convictions for rape cases seem to indicate the opposite. Also add in the fact that the victim of a rape is more likely to not go through the judicial process in the first place because of what ensues and the defense for rape is pretty darn good.

I am speaking in general and not to this particular case before you go nuts.

[heybrad]

First... we're having a discussion. I'm not going to go nuts.

I'm guessing you're saying there are few convictions in rape cases (I havent looked it up, but I can see that). Whats the alternative? Do we treat them like most on this board and just take someones word even if their word conflicts with the evidence? I dont know what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure in this case that there is reasonable doubt.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Well if you look on google, most of the sites will say somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 in 10 in the US. In fact the world conviction rate is bad also.

My alternative would be something like what South Africa has done and have a separate court for rape cases.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0129/p01s04-woaf.html

Yes it is the Christian Science Monitor, but this is a news story without editorial. I believe something similar would work here with some tweaking.

Edit: It is not the conviction rate I am pointing out, just the process.

[Ryan S]

...Although I still say that the so-called 'right to privacy' in these cases needs to extend both ways. If Kobe's identity is also protected, then do you really think this girl's life would be the media hell it's been since.
I say that everyone should have the right to privacy, or if that does not happen, then nobody should have the right to privacy. Either way you cut down on false accusations. Right now the system is completely unfair, and that applies to the US and the UK.

[heybrad]

HFP,

Interesting read. It seems that they are using those courts more for cases with children. My beef with our system is its more about each side "winning" and not necessarily trying to find the truth.

[HornedFrog Purple]

HFP,

Interesting read. It seems that they are using those courts more for cases with children. My beef with our system is its more about each side "winning" and not necessarily trying to find the truth.

Yes, it was an experiment at first but they are planning on opening more courts around the country. I think it is a fresh idea for a problem that has been going on for centuries. I think a specialist type court system like this would be worth a try. I don't think it would hurt.

When it comes down to it and I only mean to look at this from a court point of view, most of these cases come down to "he said, she said". With DNA evidence you can ascertain that intercourse took place, but unless you have witnesses or other physical evidence such as bruises etc, it's very hard to prosecute with the system we have in place.

I do think better preparation with specialists and a gag order about anything going on before or during the case should be done.. celebrity or Joe Average.

[SackAttack]

I say that everyone should have the right to privacy, or if that does not happen, then nobody should have the right to privacy. Either way you cut down on false accusations. Right now the system is completely unfair, and that applies to the US and the UK.

Agreed, and that's been my biggest gripe with the way the case has been handled. The accused's innocence is supposed to be presumed, but the way rape shield laws and such are set up, it's like they're saying "OKay, we know you're supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, but since this is the only way accusers would come forward, we're going to presume that she's telling the truth, and treat you as though conviction is a mere formality."

Just ain't right.

[SackAttack]

Can you blame them? Dude's supposed to be presumed innocent, and instead he has cameras following him everywhere.

Be honest, outside of Laker fans, who aren't really objective in this matter anyway, what percentage of folks do you think have decided that they believe Kobe's guilty? Of those, how many do you think formed that judgment within, oh, say, a week of the accusation?

I don't say that what they're doing is right, only that when you're behind the eight ball already because you're a celebrity, I don't blame the guy for resorting to whatever tactics he can to stay out of prison - unless he's actually guilty, but then, that's what the court process is for.

I still maintain that protecting the identity of both accuser and accused is the best and fairest way to go, and because the court of public opinion could give a fuck about "John and Jane Doe," you wouldn't see half the shenanigans in these sorts of cases that you do now.

But that's just me.

[rkmsuf]

The defense job is to attack the witness so on that count they are doing pretty well. This one is complex and there are so many possibilities I'm not sure how you can take either side with much conviction.

One one hand it's entirely possible Kobe is the type that isn't used to not getting his way as a superstar. She said no and he said no my ass...

On the other hand it's entirely possible that either the victim came up with a scheme or was emotionally damaged when Kobe said that's it, I'm done, now get the f out.

[MrBug708]

You can still be presumed innocent without attacking the victim.

I'm not saying that Kobe is innocent or guilty. All I'm saying is the defense/media/FOFC is painting the victim as a slut, and therefore either deserved to be raped, or is totally making the whole thing up.

There is a lot of room for presumed innocence, without resorting to this.

The reporters want to know, it's not like Kobe and co is going out of their way to smear her name in the public. The Media is doing that for him.

Besides, the best defense is a great offense right? :(

[Joe Canadian]

For those of you who have a problem with the defence attacking the victim's credibility... I have a question. How is Kobe supposed to defend himself in a "he said, she said" situation, if the credibilty of the accuser can't be questioned. I'm not saying he is innocent or guilyt (because unlinke others, I'm not God... so I didn't actually see what happened in the hotel room)... I'm just wondering how you expect a defence to be mounted in this situation if the accuser is "off limits."

[gstelmack]

The reporters want to know, it's not like Kobe and co is going out of their way to smear her name in the public. The Media is doing that for him.
I agree. All the defense lawyers have said is "she had sex right after, and that invalidates the hospital evidence". Didn't the media leak her name? The court was keeping that under wraps.

It's not what the defense is doing here, it's the media pushing it's way in and blaring stuff all over the front page and the TV that's making it difficult on the accuser.

[rkmsuf]

I agree. All the defense lawyers have said is "she had sex right after, and that invalidates the hospital evidence". Didn't the media leak her name? The court was keeping that under wraps.

It's not what the defense is doing here, it's the media pushing it's way in and blaring stuff all over the front page and the TV that's making it difficult on the accuser.

I think you are mistaken if you don't think it's a defense tactic...that's their job. The accuser has had her points as well as Kobe has been painted as a liar.

[Draft Dodger]

On a side note, this kind of attitude really makes me sick.

*edit*
never mind.
not taking the bait.