No more Ladies nights?

[MrBug708]

New Jersey's top civil rights official ruled this week that offering discounts on "ladies' nights" is unlawful because it discriminates against men. (Related item: 'Ladies night' nixed)

A bartender at the Coastline Bar in Cherry Hill, N.J., serves drinks on 'ladies' night.'
By Saed Hindash, Star Ledger via AP

And now, everyone from the governor to women's rights activists is talking back. Their response: It's not that serious.

"We're shaking our heads in disbelief," Deborah Dowdell, president of the New Jersey Restaurant Association, said Thursday. "Discrimination is such a serious issue, and it should not ever be taken lightly. But this is not discrimination. Ladies' night doesn't fit into that category."

The director of New Jersey's Division on Civil Rights, Frank Vespa-Papaleo, ruled Tuesday that the Coastline, a Cherry Hill restaurant and bar, violated the state's anti-discrimination law with its ladies-only promotion.

The decision was in response to a complaint filed in June 1998 by David Gillespie. He claimed he was the victim of bias when the restaurant allowed women free admission and discounted drinks while men had to pay $5 to get in and full price to imbibe.

Colleen Ready, an attorney for the Coastline, said she was uncertain whether the restaurant's owner would appeal. The ruling has the force of law, so other bars and businesses are concerned it could apply to them. Other states are mixed, the ruling points out. Judges in Pennsylvania and Iowa have agreed that such events are illegal, while Illinois and Washington state courts say they're OK as promotions to attract customers.

"This is bureaucratic nonsense," New Jersey Gov. James McGreevey said in a written statement. "It is an overreaction that reflects a complete lack of common sense and good judgment."

Others said that when it comes to bias, there are higher priorities.

"If women could now get equal pay for equal work, then they could afford the cover charges," said Deborah Jacobs of the American Civil Liberties Union of New Jersey.

Added Rita Haley, president of the New York City chapter of the National Organization for Women: "I am concerned that he is looking for discrimination in all the wrong places."


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A local caller on a radio station said it was a good thing. The hot girls get in free anyways and have drinks bought for them, it keeps out the fat chicks and ugly ones.

[Fritz]

I personally do not have a problem with ladies nights and such, but I get the point.

[SplitPersonality1]

This happened here in Milwaukee a number of years ago. Ladies nights were banned so the bars now have skirt nights to get around the law.

[QuikSand]

The problem with common sense is that each person has his own opinion where to draw the line. To most of us (including myself, on my first instinct), this sounds like an obvious case of political correctness run amok. Common sense dictates that this isn't discrimination, of course -- discrimination is that other thing where one class or people systematically gets better or worse treatment than others do.


Let me ask this: who would stand for it if a local bar offered "Black's Night" - where all African-Americans and others with dark skin are entitled to free admission and cut rate alcohol?

Why does it make sense to offer a promotion based on one suspect class, but not another?

[Ksyrup]

Others said that when it comes to bias, there are higher priorities.

Added Rita Haley, president of the New York City chapter of the National Organization for Women: "I am concerned that he is looking for discrimination in all the wrong places."



I haven't looked at this or other similar laws from a legal perspective, but it seems to me that if thse activitists agree that this is discrimination, but that it shouldn't be taken seriously because it's not a high priority, that's a hell of a position to take. Discrimination is discrimination. Whether certain kinds of discrimination should get higher priority is another issue.

I wonder what reaction there would be to a $10 off DVDs at Best Buy for men only? After all, the effect would be to attract customers.

[MJ4H]

I think I'm choosing a different planet to live on next time.

[rkmsuf]

David Gillespie should be ashamed of himself for complaining about this.

[ISiddiqui]

I agree with some others who say let's turn this around. What if clubs had men's nights? Men get in free, women pay $5. I'm sure some of these people would be clamoring that it was discrimination. It's a two way street.

[cthomer5000]

A local caller on a radio station said it was a good thing. The hot girls get in free anyways and have drinks bought for them, it keeps out the fat chicks and ugly ones.
Classic.

[Celeval]

I agree with some others who say let's turn this around. What if clubs had men's nights? Men get in free, women pay $5. I'm sure some of these people would be clamoring that it was discrimination. It's a two way street.
Oooh, or even better. A golf club that allowed men to join for free (or, for a signup fee of, say, $500), but women cost $135 million to join.

Take anything to the extreme for the example...

[ISiddiqui]

True... but I still think it's a bad idea for government to get involved in this. By the same token, I think it's a bad idea tor government to get involved when private clubs give men (or whites) benefits. Freedom of association, people.

[Fritz]

This happened here in Milwaukee a number of years ago. Ladies nights were banned so the bars now have skirt nights to get around the law.

in college, that would have gotten me and my drinking buddies out in a skirt for sure.

[cthomer5000]

Oooh, or even better. A golf club that allowed men to join for free (or, for a signup fee of, say, $500), but women cost $135 million to join.

Take anything to the extreme for the example...
I'm a little confused. Do you think that Isidiqqui's example was "to the extreme?"

[Celeval]

I'm a little confused. Do you think that Isidiqqui's example was "to the extreme?"
Nah, I was trying to make mine be.

[JeeberD]

in college, that would have gotten me and my drinking buddies out in a skirt for sure.

Knock it off Fritz, you're getting me all hot and bothered...

[SplitPersonality1]

in college, that would have gotten me and my drinking buddies out in a skirt for sure.

And yes. This happens occasionally. (sigh) - not a pretty sight.

[sachmo71]

Common sense is dead. Is this surprising?

[sabotai]

A local caller on a radio station said it was a good thing. The hot girls get in free anyways and have drinks bought for them, it keeps out the fat chicks and ugly ones.

I heard about this last week (and meant to start a thread on it but forgot) and a caller to a station up here said roughly the same thing (maybe it's a national syndicated show and was the same thing?). But anyway...

Well, you all should know by now how I would stand on this issue, so I'll just leave it at this. David, I hope you're married, because every female in Jersey is going to hate you for now on. NO POON FOR YOU!

[sterlingice]

Others said that when it comes to bias, there are higher priorities.

Added Rita Haley, president of the New York City chapter of the National Organization for Women: "I am concerned that he is looking for discrimination in all the wrong places."
Translation: He's a white male so he should stop complaining about discrimination.

SI

[MrBug708]

I heard about this last week (and meant to start a thread on it but forgot) and a caller to a station up here said roughly the same thing (maybe it's a national syndicated show and was the same thing?). But anyway...

Well, you all should know by now how I would stand on this issue, so I'll just leave it at this. David, I hope you're married, because every female in Jersey is going to hate you for now on. NO POON FOR YOU!


Well, it's KROQ so it has the national name, but I dont believe it's Syndicated. You have KROQ to thank for Loveline, Jimmy Kimmel, some of the voices for Family Guy, and of course, Carson Daly.

[sooner333]

Why does it make sense to offer a promotion based on one suspect class, but not another?

Gender is actually not recognized as a "suspect class" by the Supreme Court. Race and National Origin is treated as a suspect class, and laws must pass strict scrutiny (only Korematsu has passed). However, gender is held to a higher scrutiny than most "groups", and must pass heightened scrutiny.

[Karim]

Translation: He's a white male so he should stop complaining about discrimination.

SI
My initial thought as well...

[Anthony]

sometimes i wish men would have more balls and challenge this shit. like i wish more men would try to play on the LPGA. i wish someone would have a "Guy's NIght" (and not like the one that Fritz is used to attending). then we'll see all the PC bitches crying foul.

and i dont believe all that shit about "women don't get paid equally as men for the same job". this isn' the 80's anymore. it's not a valid excuse. personally i don't see why more women wouldn't support this. they all want to be our equals - why don't they speak out against Ladies Night? just like how minorities don't like affirmitive action.

[cuervo72]

Boy, this David really mustn't be getting any, considering the whole point of Ladies Night is to get women in bars so they're not sausage factories. Hell, he's lucky these places aren't paying women to show up.

Now, when some of these bars look the other way when obviously underage women enter...

[Suicane75]

Now, when some of these bars look the other way when obviously underage women enter...


It's Party Time!!!!!!



I mean, then they should be shut down.


















But really it's party time.

[Schmidty]

Let me ask this: who would stand for it if a local bar offered "Black's Night" - where all African-Americans and others with dark skin are entitled to free admission and cut rate alcohol?

Something akin to that already exists: It's called Affirmative Action.

[Buccaneer]

"This is bureaucratic nonsense," New Jersey Gov. James McGreevey said in a written statement. "It is an overreaction that reflects a complete lack of common sense and good judgment."
And this is from the governor...a state politician...from New Jersey?????????

[Buccaneer]

Three more common discounts:

Military discounts,
Students discounts, and
show your church bulletin discount.

This is not discrimination, it's business sense. It's the same thing as advertising to a demographic segment (i.e., marketing a product for a gender, race, age, nationality, etc.). But you guys are forgetting...the govt has to have legislation and regulation for EVERYTHING so it's right for them to step in on this.

[Ragone]

maybe we should get hootie johnson to picket outside of bars on ladies night?

[sabotai]

And this is from the governor...a state politician...from New Jersey?????????

Yeah Buc, our liberal governor said that! I did a double take. I even questioned who he was saying this to. I couldn't beleive it.

McGreevy grew a pair recently it would seem.