Crusader Kings

[bamcgee]

I know we've got some Paradox fans around here, so I wanted to see if anyone could give a review of this one. It looks like more of the same to me, and I'm always a bit leery of purchasing their games before the kinks have been worked out. Are the personality additions enough to warrant a new purchase?

[Eaglesfan27]

I liked the game a lot when it arrived, but I haven't played a lot since I've been so hooked on CM 03/04. However, that being said I have put in quite a few hours and I find it to be fun, but still rough around the edges. I think another patch or three and it will be a very solid game.

[Sporkimata]

The next patch should be out in the near future. It will iron out in theory a lot of the AI issues. The game as it is now is way too easy.

[WSUCougar]

The next patch should be out in the near future.
Any idea on a timetable for this?

[Godzilla Blitz]

1.03 came out last week, no?

Paradox' site is down now, but it's at File Front (http://files.filefront.com/3197260;/pub2/Crusader_Kings/Official_Patches/).

Now if they'd only sell the game, it would be even better. Usually GoGamer has these imports before their US release, but even they don't have it.

[WSUCougar]

FYI
Paradox Entertainment announces that it will self-publish its historical real-time strategy game in North America later this year.

Sweden-based Paradox Entertainment has today announced that it will self-publish Crusader Kings in North America on September 21. Previously signed by Strategy First, the game is the first to be self-published by Paradox in North America.

"After having successfully published our games in key European markets, we are now ready for the important and challenging North American market," said Theodore Bergquist, CEO of Paradox Entertainment. "Self-publishing is a way for Paradox to secure our intellectual property and to serve our customers in a better way."

The North American distribution of Crusader Kings will be handled by Atari, with which Paradox Entertainment recently signed an affiliate label deal.

[Sporkimata]

The new patch is out. They have updated it itoo 1.3b

[Galaril]

Is this game more complicated than EU 2?It looks interesting but very very complex.I tried EU 2 but I found it alittle too complex.Thanks

[Peregrine]

Been reading about this game, it sounds pretty good. I'm a big EU2 fan and I think the idea of being able to play a similar type game with a smaller scope would be very interesting. So it doesn't come out in the US for a few months and isn't on Go Gamer? Any other ways for us to get it here in the States?

[Eaglesfan27]

Order directly from Paradox? Least that is what I did (although mine was a pre-order)

[Peregrine]

I have ordered the game and waiting for it to arrive (might be a long wait!) I hope they release the next patch sometime soon, the game seems to be improving but there's still a lot of stuff to fix from what I've read.

[Peregrine]

Got the game yesterday, it's been a blast so far. There's a lot more immersion in your dynasty than your country in EU2 because you're dealing with individual characters and their personalities, I'm not really trying to "game the system" and get really powerful so far, it's fun to be able to set your own goals and try to accomplish them though. I don't think it's more complicated than EU2, though as usual, there are some things that aren't explained. Some of the things like the way tech advances are handled are brilliant though, very fitting to the medieval system.

[WSUCougar]

Update:
Crusader Kings will reach North American store shelves on September 21st, Paradox Entertainment announced on Wednesday. Crusader Kings is the latest in Paradox's established series of grand strategy historical titles, this one set from 1066 A.D. to 1453 A.D. In this spinoff from the Europa Universalis games, players manage dynasties, kings, and lines of royal blood during Europe's Middle Ages, trying to create a powerful empire set within the constraints of actual history.

Strategy First had previously set a release date for this spring, but that was pushed into September after Paradox severed ties with its former publisher. In the announcement, the Swedish developer revealed it would publish its next games in North American by itself, albeit with the help of by a distribution agreement with Atari. It is not yet clear which version of Crusader Kings will ship to North America, but it is likely to be patched up through at least v1.03, the most recent version.

[Peregrine]

I am definitely having a lot of fun with this game. It's a bit of a different playstyle from EU2, but it really gives you a lot of choices, you can be a world conqueror or try a more introspective, roleplay style like I have been doing. Good stuff.

[WSUCougar]

I'm looking forward to giving it a whirl, Peregrine. But I am going to wait for GoGamer to discount it than I'll pounce.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Peregrine, please shut up. ;)

I have been trying hard to not buy this game for a month now, as it's way over my $20 limit. In a moment of weakness, I actually caved in and ordered it, but the order didn't go through for some reason. Whew. The confusion from the botched order (I wasn't sure if the order went through or not) bought me another week's delay. I've been able to hold off for a while more, but then people like you come in and post great stuff about the game. Aaargh. Hopeless, I tell you. I'll consider it a major victory for my self-discipline if I can just hold off until the end of the month.

[Eilim]

"more introspective, roleplay style" ... Is that another way of saying peddling off your children into marriage, then assasinating the right people so you then have tenuous claims to thrones other than your own even if it involves then killing your own children?

If so, thats my preferred way of playing also... *maniacal, evil laughter* Its good to be da king. ;)

- Eilim, Supreme Evil Dictator of Ireland

[Peregrine]

"more introspective, roleplay style" ... Is that another way of saying peddling off your children into marriage, then assasinating the right people so you then have tenuous claims to thrones other than your own even if it involves then killing your own children?


I consider that the gaming the system style ;)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Eek. I found EU2 to be way too complicated for me to manage. I haven't even looked at Crusader Kings yet, but if it compares to EU2, I'd be too confused. I love the ideas of these games, but I fear that they may be too much for me. :(

[Peregrine]

Well I'd certainly have to say that Crusader Kings is not as complicated as EU2, there's less to keep track of really. I enjoy both games, but they are pretty different in how they play out.

[Godzilla Blitz]

My game arrived today. Managed to fumble my way through thirty years worth of gaming. Still very lost, but things are starting to clear up.

Made myself the Johann the Count of Mayo and off I went. Only one county to manage so there really wasn't too much to do as of yet. I was a chaste, energetic fellow, married to a bulldog of a woman called Maghrete. Whether it was the chastity or her ugliness or a combination of both, I'm not sure, but for whatever reason I only had two kids, both sickly girls. The youngest died of an intenstinal worm, but the oldest--a warped kid that liked to tortute pets--managed to get over her pneumonia through vigorous horseback riding and survive. She was the only hope to pass on inheritance, so I wanted to keep her in the county and not marry her off to some foreign land. Finally when I was 49, I got a male courtier, aged 51, to marry her, aged 21. Whatever it takes, I figure.

Anyway, they promptly had two sons and saved the family line, providing these kids live.

My useless wife ended up getting pregnant four years later, at age 43, but of course we had another girl.

And not only was my wife useless in bed, but she spent money like a sieve. Thanks to that, the only distinguising landmark of my 30 years as Count Mayo will be a small stone library.

Fun stuff.

Still can't really do much with only one county yet. I'm someone else's vassal, and everybody around me has a bigger army, so I'm guessing my only way to gain power is to marry into some other lands. Can't do that until my grandchildren turn of age, so I'm pretty much just sitting around waiting to die.

[Peregrine]

Starting as a county is pretty tricky, especially in Ireland since they are some of the poorest and lowest tech counties in the game. I recommend either trying a duchy, or if a county, at least a rich or independent county. Some of the ones in eastern Europe such as Chernigov are independent counties from the start I believe. I played a game as the Count of Carcassone in southern France that was pretty good, he starts with two very rich provinces so that helps a lot.

[klayman]

Anyway, they promptly had two sons and saved the family line, providing these kids live.


Unless the male coutier is of the same dynasty line (read as country cousin), you'll find that your game is over when your current ruler dies. Time for your wife to have a nasty fall down the stairs I think.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Peregrine: Thanks for those ideas. I picked Mayo because I liked the name. Count of Mayo. My grand ambition was to take the province of Bologna. Then I could have had Bologna on top of Mayo. Heh heh.

Alas, it was not to be. I spotted a solitary province in southeastern Ireland that had just been decimated by war, grabbed a claim on the title, and attacked. My liege jumped in to help and we sieged their fort for about three or four years, but gradually our men died off and we had to abandon the retrospectively stupid plan. Just as my few remaining guys got back to my home province, the King of Scotland declared war on me. Three years later it was game over.

I didn't realize that Ireland was so poor compared to the other areas in Europe. Although it was fun, there wasn't much for me to do for most of the game. Having a stupid ass wife that only gave birth to three daughters made things pretty limiting as well. I will definitely try a different area next time. Carcassone sounds like a good place to try. The board game is a lot of fun. I read the CK manual last night and figured out a lot of stupid things that I did and a lot of intelligent things that I didn't do, so I think I can do a bit better next time.

Eventually I think I'll go back to Mayo and give it another try when I get a bit better at the game.

Klayman: Although Johann was still alive when the Scots ran over our walls, I think my family line was ok. I had an inheritance law in effect that let the inheritance pass through my daugther to the grandsons. Unless I was misreading the rulebook, that is. It listed the grandsons as my successors in my little family tree screen, too, so wouldn't I have been ok?

My useless wife actually ended up dying from depression a few years before the Scots killed us all. I didn't take another wife, as I liked my grandsons and thought they would make fine rulers.

[klayman]

Klayman: Although Johann was still alive when the Scots ran over our walls, I think my family line was ok. I had an inheritance law in effect that let the inheritance pass through my daugther to the grandsons. Unless I was misreading the rulebook, that is. It listed the grandsons as my successors in my little family tree screen, too, so wouldn't I have been ok?

My useless wife actually ended up dying from depression a few years before the Scots killed us all. I didn't take another wife, as I liked my grandsons and thought they would make fine rulers.
You would think, but that's not quite how it works. The heir has to have your last name to continue the dynasty, and any grandsons through your daughter (while technically part of your dynasty) would have their father's last name, thus ending your family line. Think of it this way: we are playing a multiplayer game and my son marries your daughter and has 1 son. Who's dynasty does "our" grandson continue as? Mine of course, and it's game over for you.

As far as successors listed under your family tree, it only shows who's next in line, not if it will continue your dynasty or not. For example the Duke of Warwick, William Fitzosbern, has successors in his family tree at the start of the 1066 scenerio. None are from his dynasty, though, and because no other Fitzosberns exsist in the game, if he dies without a proper heir, it's game over. If you have a save game, simply click on your ruler, bring up the console (f12) and type "die" and that will show you if I'm right or wrong. I'm pretty sure your game will end (if it doesn't ctd).

[Godzilla Blitz]

Klayman: You were right. I typed "die" in the console and the game ended. Thanks for clarifying that. I was thinking bloodline continuing, as that's kind of what I thought the manual was talking about when it said inheritance could be passed through a daughter, but the continuation of the name, as you explain it, makes a lot more sense.

Although the whole thing became moot when the Scots wiped everyone out, I'm glad you clarified that, as I would think it'll be important for future games.

Also, there is no divorcing in the game, correct? So if your wife is barren or keeps giving birth to unhealthy girls, the only way to solve the problem is to assassinate her and get married to someone else, right?

[klayman]

Also, there is no divorcing in the game, correct? So if your wife is barren or keeps giving birth to unhealthy girls, the only way to solve the problem is to assassinate her and get married to someone else, right?
You are correct.

[Peregrine]

So if your wife is barren or keeps giving birth to unhealthy girls, the only way to solve the problem is to assassinate her and get married to someone else, right?

Pretty much. Or you can use the F12 - die cheat. Personally I don't like to assassinate people, I think it's a cop-out and makes it way too easy to become really powerful in the game. But some people do like it.

[klayman]

Klayman: You were right. I typed "die" in the console and the game ended. Thanks for clarifying that. I was thinking bloodline continuing, as that's kind of what I thought the manual was talking about when it said inheritance could be passed through a daughter, but the continuation of the name, as you explain it, makes a lot more sense.


Just to clarify, inheritance is passed through the sons of a daughter with the right inheritance laws. Your grandsons will technically inherit your land and wealth, etc. However, the dynasty only passes through characters with the same name and that is what determines if the game continues. Thus, it is possible to have a distant relative (as long as he owns some land) continue your dynasty while you watch your former realm get inherited by someone elses dynasty.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Well, I still don't have this game (and I'm still undecided about whether I'll buy it), but I'm reading the thread with great interest. From an outsider's standpoint, it seems a little unsettling to think that the game could end just because you haven't had a son. Does the game lose any of its fun because you could be in a "lame duck" situation? I'm not sure how I'd feel about putting (presumably) hours into a game only to lose everything I've done because of something that's out of my control.

Any comments?

[Peregrine]

Does the game lose any of its fun because you could be in a "lame duck" situation?

Well, it's a bit of an uneasy feeling at first until you get your family established. After you play a while it becomes less and less of a problem. The reason is that you build up a number of uncles, cousins, etc who share your last name but aren't in your direct line of succession. I use these as my primary vassals. So even if somehow you got unlucky and died without a direct heir, usually one of these other relatives (with your same last name) would take over and the dynasty would continue. You can also change your succession law to favor certain people, and guide the succession that way.

The only time I've been really nervous is in my current game as Kingdom of Georgia, both my kings have had bad luck in wives and seem to get tons of daughters, and I've had a few sickly sons die.

[Bee]

This looks like a game I might have to pick up. While I enjoyed EU and EU2, I thought they were a bit "dry". This sounds like they are taking the basic game and concentrating more on the rulers and lineage which I think is a step in the right direction (at least for my enjoyment).

[ahbrady]

I just started reading this thread, and I think I'm convinced to buy it now. The lineage aspect of the game is intriguing to me. Next time I'm at a software store I'll have to look for this one. Thanks guys.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Ahbrady: It's only available here (http://paradox.e-butik.se/) right now. In September it'll get released in the US.

[ahbrady]

I hate to hear that. I intended to pick it up today. How long does shipping usually take from Paradox?

[Godzilla Blitz]

I hate to hear that. I intended to pick it up today. How long does shipping usually take from Paradox? Took about a week for me. I've heard seven to ten days is average.

Conversion from euros should make everything around $46, total, give or take a couple of dollars.

Normally I would just wait until the game gets released here, especially with Paradox's history of releasing semi-functional games then patching the hell out of them over the following year. However, this one seems to be pretty stable and functional now (version 1.03), so I'm glad I picked it up early.

I started a couple of new games (as Chernigov and Carcassone) and they have been fun. Chernigov (modern day Russian area) has been fun. Although you start off as a count, you are independent and have four decent provinces. I've managed to take another province from the heathens to my east, and now am trying to build infrastructure while I wait for my sons to come of age so I can give them control of a couple of provinces. I can't handle five effectively by myself. Once I get them in control of a couple of provinces, I'll attack those heathens again. In a perfect world, I will become King of Rus.

[Peregrine]

Shipping was a week for me on the East Coast, placed order on Friday, got it the next Friday.

I enjoyed my game as Carcassone. France fell apart in my game so I was able to pick up some provinces and become Duke of Armagnac, and now it's my goal to defend southern France from the Moors who have total control of Spain.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Peregrine: Did you withdraw as a vassal then? I can't seem to figure out how to do that.

As an aside, does anyone know if it is possible to edit the speed at which the secondary information screens pop up when you hold your cursor over a particular person, etc.? Right now, the name comes up immediately, but it takes two seconds for the rest of the info to appear. I looked for an .ini file to edit but can't seem to find the appropriate one.

(I'm trying to get registered on the Crusader Kings boards so I can search their forums myself but their "server is too busy")

[ahbrady]

Thanks for the info on the shipping. I will probably just wait until it is out over here. I'm a teacher, and we start back next week, so I'm not sure I'll have a lot of time to play it the next few weeks anyway.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Stupid question, but...

I have five provinces and want to make a son a vassal and give him one of them to manage. How on earth do I do this?

I can figure out how to grant the title to the province and give it to my son, but it becomes an independent province, not a vassalized one. Once I give it to him, there is no option for offering vassalization.

In case it's important, I'm a count.

[Peregrine]

I have five provinces and want to make a son a vassal and give him one of them to manage. How on earth do I do this?

Okay, this is because you are still a count. A count can't have vassals, so if you give away titles they just become independent counts. You need to become a duke before you can have counts as vassals, at that point your son would become a count and your vassal. Similarly you need to be a king before you can have dukes as vassals. Try to claim a ducal title when you can, I think you can get Languedoc if you control either Narbonne or Vivers (sp?) which you start next to, or I got Armagnac by getting control of Foix and Armagnac.

Peregrine: Did you withdraw as a vassal then? I can't seem to figure out how to do that

Basically if your loyalty gets low enough, you'll start to see options like swear loyalty to other lieges, that's what happened to me, the King of France started revoking titles left and right and I took the opportunity to become a vassal of Germany instead. Once you get a King title you become independent.

As an aside, does anyone know if it is possible to edit the speed at which the secondary information screens pop up when you hold your cursor over a particular person, etc.?

Not sure about this, but they will know on the boards. Yeah, you get that too busy message fairly often, just refresh a few times and it will usually come up.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Peregrine: Thanks for the answers! Much appreciated.

I'm playing with the Chernigov game, and that's where I was having trouble with the vassalization. But my mess has gotten much worse. My main character died, and his first son (who continues the dynasty) had been in charge of two provinces given to him by his uncle. Well, he inherited all his dad's lands, which suddenly put him in charge of 8 provinces (as a count). He's also a vassal of his uncle, so that limits things a bit, too. Our economy is shot to hell because the poor guy can't manage so many provinces. We've got thieves, smugglers, and brigands running around some provinces. Typhoid fever just broke out in another one. Yikes.

Rather than give the provinces up to his brothers and lose control over them, I figure I can just take the land from some of the High Chiefs to our east, which I guessed would allow me to claim a higher level title. Three years later we've now got 12 provinces, but our economy has ground to a halt and we're heavily in debt. I have enough land to claim a Prince title, but I've got to figure some way to get enough money to do so. Not sure if I can claim that title while I'm a vassal of someone else, either.

Quite fun stuff. I think it's going to take a handful of games like the one I've got now to figure out the game system well enough to have a clue how to play effectively.

[Peregrine]

8 provinces as a count! Ouch, that would be causing problems. You start getting a lot of bad events when your efficiency is that low (as you've been finding out) in addition to the mess it makes of your finances. You can definitely create new titles at any point, though depending on who your liege is I'm not sure how it will work. The money can be an issue, like you said. You could try to be sneaky and give up a few provinces to a relative, but set it up so that it eventually inherits back into your family, but that can be risky.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Fun game. Kind of grows on you.

Finally sorted out my mess with Chernigov. Gave a province each to my mother, nephew, and brother. That got my economy back in the black. Had to wait five years and weather numerous rebellions before I had enough money to claim a prince title, but that got me out of obligation to my liege and allowed me to vassalize my other brother with three provinces, greatly improving my economic efficiency. It's now 1090 or so and I've got a princehood, independence, and two vassals. My only son turns 16 next year so he'll get two or three provinces, which should bring my economic efficiency back close to 100%, and then I should be able to expand. I'd like to aim to become the King of Rus or Lithuania. How possible that is remains to be seen.

[Bee]

So when's the dynasty going to start up? :D

[Peregrine]

Well there are dozens of dynasties (AARs) on the Paradox boards that you can read, honestly I wouldn't feel up to matching the incredibly deep writing style and historical knowledge that most of them display, so I'll just link to them:

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=239

I like the Haus Wettin one personally.

[Godzilla Blitz]

I'll take a closer look at some of the AARs over on that board, but I would think it would be challenging to make a dynasty interesting. The game is so long timewise that you'd have to make sure you didn't get bogged down in the details, but much of the interesting part of this game lies in the details and the relationships involved. I don't think it's something I could do well.

It might be fun to give just a light overview of a long game, or a detailed account of one person's life in the game.

[Peregrine]

I agree GB, plus the AAR system that has developed over time for Paradox games is so mind-blowing its unbelievable. People put so much effort and do so much creative writing for them, several of them have been pulled because people want to try to publish them. I agree that the EU2 ones tend to be better, but following a dynasty can be pretty interesting as well. The Haus Wettin one tries to make it pretty interesting with the personalities of each of the rulers, but it does get harder and harder to keep track of the dynasty as the game goes on, just like in the real game!

[klayman]

As a heads up, Paradox released the 1.04 patch yesterday.

[WSUCougar]

After an extensive beta process, the official version 1.05 is very close to release...like maybe next week! This is exciting stuff for a unique and very cool game.

[Bee]

So patch 1.04 was released 8/27/2004...and the next patch is coming out next week? I'm not sure if I should be shocked it took so long or amazed they are still patching it...

[sachmo71]

With Paradox, this is not surprising.

[Bee]

I think I bought this game online through paradox. I've updated to a new computer since then, so I guess I'll need to find all my information to download it again. I thought the game was pretty fun and probably was my personal favorite of the paradox games.

[WSUCougar]

FYI, this is a major patch and should be well worth the wait. The beta process has been long and involved, but the people working on it are very good and responsive to the players. I am eager to see the polished product.

[Coffee Warlord]

As I FINALLY picked up this game, and it should be delivered any minute now...are the beta patches stable/good enough to use?

[WSUCougar]

As I FINALLY picked up this game, and it should be delivered any minute now...are the beta patches stable/good enough to use?
CW,

If you go to the Crusader Kings forum (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=278), there are several different beta versions kicking around. The most recent is one is sort of the unofficial version 1.05, with which they are trying to fix any last minute concerns (esp. balance issues) before the official release. I'd go with that one, but the December 2005 or August 2005 betas were good as well.

[Coffee Warlord]

Damn you King of Denmark! We liked you! We thought you were our friend. You named us Duke of Sjaelland, I had my brother marry your youngest daughter, we were tight.

Then you go on a rampage. We, being the dutiful vassal, allow you to take our troops to wage war in Northern Europe, despite going into heavy debt because of it. But then you place Duke Svinde on the front lines, and the poor man never returns home, never sees the birth of his third child. And now Duke Oluf, a screaming year old infant, leads our lands.

Asshole. You cut down the first Duke of Sjaelland in his prime. We'll remember this. Oluf will come of age and will wear the Crown of Denmark. Oh yes.

[WSUCougar]

Hint: Fire the royal cartoonist.

[Eaglesfan27]

Ok, you guys have sucked me back into this game. I installed it on the new computer last night (which shows that it has been almost a year since I played it) and will be looking up the latest patch this evening to play some this weekend :)

[aran]

You gentlemen have gotten me interested in this game. I have a few questions before i consider buying:

1.) Do actions have realistic results, or do you find yourself trying to "beat the game" when it comes to certain strange circumstances?
2.) How is the interface? Is it relatively easy to get the data you need?
3.) Does the game play relatively quickly, or does it take a noticeable amount of time to simulate reasonable stretches where your character isn't doing much?

[Coffee Warlord]

#1 I'm not sure how to answer, but ...

2) It takes some getting used to. Lot of things I think could have been MUCH better organized, but once you get the hang of where things are, it's not horrible. Not great, but it's not annoying to a pain in the ass level.

3) It's a very slow, methodical game. However, time passes easily, because I'm always plotting my next move, keeping an eye on my disloyal fucks of vassals, or whatever. While there's many times where I'm not actively doing much, it never FEELS like it.

...and apparently the Hvide family inherited some very very VERY back stabbing traits. The primogen of the line lived to the ripe old age of 65, fathering two distinct families. The first successors were not large in number, but they showed promise. We carefully nurtured Niels, and eventually gave him land in northern Germany. His bastard brother Oluf was too qualified to be ignored, and we gave him a neighboring province as well to govern. As the old man's wife died, he married a lovely 17 year old beauty for political gain. Much to my surprise, the old fart spat out *4* more kids.

Whelp...firstborn Niels apparently wasn't as promising as we had hoped, as the Pope excommunicated his ass. His son took the Dukedom at the age of 10, only to be poisoned 2 months later by his own spymaster. His younger brother Rolf however, has flourished on the throne, and finally the Hvides were able to take on the ancient Royal line of Knytlings. We threw them out of most of Denmark, though the old King still retains his title and a few loyal vassals. For now, the first victory is ours. The House of Hvide will soon by the Royal House in Denmark.

...unfortunately, the family name is slowly degenerating, following Duke Rolf's lead. Most provinces held by full blooded Hvides are becoming disloyal as fuck, and we're constantly on the lookout for plots against our beloved Duke. Not to mention the two courtiers I granted title and lands to who I eventually had to forcibly remove from their lands, after they failed to support me in my assault on the King. Fuckers.

Could get very ugly when we make our next run on the throne. I wonder how many of the Hvides will call up their troops when I need them.

[WSUCougar]

Okay, the final beta version of 1.05 is done and in the pipeline. Shouldn't be long now!

[Eaglesfan27]

Okay, the final beta version of 1.05 is done and in the pipeline. Shouldn't be long now!

Excellent news. Lots of gaming goodness this month. I can't wait to start playing again once 1.05 is released.

[Coffee Warlord]

Shit, I've had more crashes with the final beta than I have with earlier builds.

And that's after totally wiping it and re-installing.

[twothree]

Patch 1.05 has been officially released.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234395

[WSUCougar]

CRUSADER KINGS 1.05 CHANGE LOG *********
**********************************************
**********************************************

Crusader Kings 1.05 represents a massive undertaking in overhauling many game mechanisms, introducing many new features, and completely reworking and rebalancing almost all aspects of the game. This offical 1.05 enhancement was more than 18 months in the making; and would have been impossible without the support of Paradox's development team; the tireless dedication of a small group of betas; and most importantly it would never have happened without the continued interest of our fans in the Public Beta forum who have devoted countless hours making suggestions, posting feedback, testing, and assisting us with events and text translations...and so much more.


The following list of changes is only a general overview of the primary differences between 1.05 and 1.04. To view a complete and detailed list; please see the change logs that accompanied each of the 34 distinct public beta patches. (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ad.php?t=171465)


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#### Gameplay ####
#################

CRUSADES
- Created new system of cyclical Crusades with varying targets based on game situation. The game will now consist of a series of shorter crusades, with periods of peace in between. The end of a crusade will occur at some time after the crusade target (as identified by hovering your mouse over the crusade flag) has been captured; and will happen sooner if surrounding provinces have also been captured.
- Introduced massive events to control Crusades and provide flavour while Crusades occur.
- The AI has been made reactive to Crusades and powerful rulers are likely to embark on aggressive campaigns in support of them.

REALM MANAGEMENT
- The maximum demesne size is now based on the ruler's INTRIGUE rating and not the ruler's stewardship rating.
- The Martial stat of the ruler and the marshal now determines the recruitment speed for the provincial regiments.
- Difficulty no longer affects regiment size, only speed of recruitment.
- Removed tax rate impact on regiment size.
- The Byzantine demesne bonus has been reduced.
- Rulers can now press the claims of co-belligerent vassals and/or courtiers if the ruler lacks his own claim.
- Peace is now enforced for all vassals (and vassals of vassals) when a liege makes peace. This includes truce periods.
- Higher titles (duke and king level) can now be created even if all provinces are held by your vassals and no demesne is present.
- Granting a Duchy/Kingdom title will also grant appropriate vassals.
- Destroyed titles may be recreated with only 1 province if a claim exists to the destroyed title.
- Titles are no longer destroyed by taking all demesne if the ruler still has vassals.
- New vassals are 100% loyal.
- Vassals very distant from liege demesne may break away.
- Vassals that become independent due to religious differences receive a claim on the liege.
- Vassals now sorted in loyalty order for liege.
- Vassals may now become rebellious if they are far away from their liege, or if they have a very high intrigue level, or if their liege has a very poor intrigue level, or if they are a different religion than their liege. This can lead to increased chances that they will attempt to assassinate their liege; or they may even attempt to initiate a civil war.
- Fixed assignment of Bishoprics from the Papal Controller's court to exclude married courtiers or those with court rank.
- Provinces that are a considerable distance from the demesne capital will tend to dissolve into anarchy and rebellion. When a human ruler is leading a regiment, any parts of his demesne that are far away from his current location (including provinces near the demesne capital!) may also be subject to revolt and thievery.
- The Pope can no longer inherit titles.
- The Pope receives base prestige equal to the Papal Controller per month. Some events now give the Pope and those around him extra piety.
- Only rulers may be excommunicated by the Papal Controller.
- Provinces converting to non-Christian lose all Christian buildings.
- Moslem ruler succession can sometimes trigger interesting (and tumultuous) results.
- Adjusted frequency of female birth and random spawning.
- Added loyalty adjustment for liege laws.
- Rulers are limited to one alliance, although it is possible to exploit this by responding affirmatively to two (or more) simultaneous offers.
- Now possible to agree when a courtier thinks they would "be a better" court member which will automatically promote them into that position.
- Bankruptcy now degrades fortifications instead of removing them.
- Formation of a Crusader State from within your lands is a boon to a ruler rather than a penalty.
- Implemented terrain restrictions on province buildings. No more advanced lumber industry in the desert.
- Tweaked province buildings/improvements cost, time, and effects.
- Rebalanced pillage gold and piety effects based on buildings and province effects.
- You should no longer be pested by non-coreligionist courtiers seeking officer positions in your court.
- The Pope and Patriarch are now only annoyed if you appoint heathens to court officer positions, but not if you simply have some unemployed ones in your court. However; the Pope will complain if you appoint Orthodox court officers during a crusade so players should generally avoid doing so except under extreme emergencies.


COMBAT
- Combat losses now displayed in results window.
- Regimental commanders of different religions will not claim lands for themselves but for the ruler while at war vs. religious enemies.
- Thieves, smugglers, and highway robbers are now more likely to spring up when the province regiment is away.
- Mercenary system now changed so mercenaries are sometimes useful.
- Tweaked many combat values to increase shock and reduce losses. Much more likely to see routs and less annhilation.
- Naval transport costs vastly increased and slowed speed. Extremely expensive to sail directly to religious enemy.

MONGOL HORDES
- Completely redesigned the Mongol Hordes, their initial armies, their wants, desires, succession preferences.

OTHER
- The plague may now appear and almost any time and will spread not only through provinces, but also through courts.
- God now looks unfavorably on heathens, heretics, etc who somehow get control of (or could inherit control of) the Papacy of Religious Orders.
- Heretic provinces now red on religion map.
- All trait effects have been rebalanced. The previous "lisp" and "stutter" traits have been combined into the "lisp" trait, and the "intestinal worm" and "leper" traits have been eliminated. Three new traits have been introduced: "rebelliousness", "realm duress" and "parental upbringing". Rebelliousness means that a vassal is considering declaring independemce, or that he might attempt to wreak havoc within his liege's realm. Realm duress is a trait that a liege will receive if one or more of his vassals is attempting to initiate a civil war. Until he can regain stability by putting down all signs of rebellion, he will be at far greater risk of further uprisings. Parental upbringing is a trait given to a child when a ruler has decided to take a more direct hand in his or her education. It willl usuaully only occur for the player's immediate family.
- Full name and title is now the default for event effects.
- Mortality rates have been increased for all characters except for rulers and primary heirs
- Capitals now have some inertia.
- The restriction that removed chaste and lustful traits from younger characters when loading a save game has been removed.
- Random male courtiers will be generally a bit younger than before.


###################
##### AI CHANGES #####
###################

- AI of ALL religions will now grant titles (including setting up new counties and duchies)
- AI is now smarter at deciding when to accept a marriage proposal - especially when the target is a court member.
- AI Rulers will now attempt to pledge allegiance to default rulers (duke/king) under some conditions.
- AI tweaked for court position assignment.
- AI no longer claims titles of religious enemies.
- AI now grants Ducal titles to appropriate counts.
- AI now much, much smarter in wars and with mobilization of troops.
- AI now avoids revoking titles when vassals are disloyal.
- AI more likely to ally when marriage/family ties are involved.
- AI no longer automatically involves itself in inter-vassal wars.
- AI Kings more likely to Crusade.
- AI lieges will demand support of vassals on Crusade.
- AI Catholic rulers are less likely to accept muslim neighbours
- AI should no longer appoint court officers who aren't co-religionists.


################
##### EVENTS #####
################

- Added events for varying Heresies.
- Added in-depth system of child educational events
- Added a series of events making it more difficult to control non-religion provinces.
- Added a series of events to better model Mongol Horde succession.
- Added several series of events based on the court members.
- Added a series of events based on realm laws.
- Tweaked technology spread and discovery events for realm tier and current status (war, crusading, etc).
- Added a series of events that destabilize the Byzantine Empire.
- Added a series of intrigue events for vassals to get uppity.
- Crusader States will attempt to form themselves when Catholics make gains in the Holy Land.
- The Pope will ask nicely for Rome back, should you have it and should he be homeless. Beware saying 'No'.
- Added a siege event that could speed a siege... or not.
- Cultural and Religious Conversion events re-coded. Repeatedly. And then a few more times. And then once more.
- Added a series of events for bastard children to either turn into William the Bastard... or die horribly.
- Added a series of events for bastards to disrupt courts if they are so inclined.
- Added a series of regency events for child rulers. Beware your vassals.
- Made some logical adjustments to bankruptcy events defining what you can and cannot steal.
- The Pope and Patriarch get very unhappy when your court is run by heathens. Especially while a Crusade is in effect.
- Chancellors and Stewards impact length of revolts and province wealth.
- New ultracomplex event for distant vassals to break free from their lieges.
- New even more ultracomplex events added to make it rather difficult to maintain law, order, and loyalty in demesne provinces that are distant from the demesne capital (i.e. are not in the same area or an adjacent area). The player will also be at some risk of two of these events whenever the demesne's ruler is far away at war (an approximation of Prince John's treachery when Richard was off on crusade). The AI is not subject to this latter case since it could be too hard for it to manage.
- Added several battle and siege oriented events.
- Added a new event that no one expects, and that will do something with fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency and a fanatical devotion to the...er....


################
#### SCRIPTING ####
################

- Added "type = papacy" to event_effects file.
- Added "on_crusade" condition. Returns true on at war with Crusade target.
- Added condition to prevent any crusade starting (except "Retake Rome") if Rome is owned by a non-Catholic.
- Added a "province" condition to check province religion/etc.
- Added "type = court value = n" check for more than 'n' adults in a ruler's court.
- Added target "this" for further character events for the current target.
- Added target "knight" for random adult male courtier.
- Added "crusade_target_owner" to determine owner of the current crusade's target province.
- Added "declare_war" effect.
- "remove_regiment" effect fixified.
- Added "type = pregnant" condition.
- Added province condition "is_besieged"
- Added the 'papacy_csc' and 'controller_csc' csc conditions for character conditions.
- "papacy" and "controller" are now valid targets for character event effects.
- Added an 'any_enemy' csc condition for characters.
- Added an 'is_alive' condition.
- Added a 'primary_heir' which is true if first heir to his fathers primary title.
- Added a 'other_heir' which is true if a heir but not the first heir to his fathers primary title. ***seems not to be working at present***
- Added a 'primary_heir' csc for characters.
- Added a 'primary_heir' target for character effects.
- Added a 'other_heir' target for character effects, which picks a random heir which is not the primary heir of current char.
- Added a 'badboy' event effect for characters.


################
#### TECHNICAL ####
################

- Changed network protocal from tcp/ip to directplay internal.


################
#### BUG FIXES ####
################

- It is no longer possible to be at war with oneself.
- Female court members no longer lose assigned position when married to a courtier.
- Heretics and Excommunicated courtiers no longer granted bishoprics or Papacy.
- Siege and Occupation no longer reset on ruler death.
- Claims should no longer be received against religious enemies via event.
- Fixed faulty logic in health related events.
- Fixed nested event errors possibly responsible for many CTDs.
- Characters with 0 or less piety (or "scum of the earth" badboy) can not be canonized.
- Low fertility characters now less likely to sire bastards.
- Only christians can build churches, monasteries, templar houses, etc.
- Fixed the elusive Virtual Function Call CTD (and there was much rejoicing)
- Fixed hordes of CTDs and other bugs.
- Eliminated possibility to get multiple claims on the same title.
- It should be impossible for a character to receive two educations now.
- RND seeding is now correctly re-rolled for each instance that it is used.


##########################
###### SCENARIO CHANGES ######
##########################

The list of individual scenario changes annd corrections is simply too long to include in detail. Please go to http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ad.php?t=171465 to view a complete list of all changes.

[Eaglesfan27]

I debated posting this in the general forum, but figure it will get seen here. Has anyone experienced a flickering screen when they try to play? I installed 1.05 on top of a clean install. I can't believe the patch was only 5 MB, so I'm almost wondering if it was a bad download, but I guess I would be seeing more problems than just a flickering screen. Also, I am trying to play without the CD if that matters.

[kingfc22]

Is there a demo?

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm not sure, Kingfc22.

I figured out my problem thanks to the Paradox forums. Apparently, some background processes that Music Match runs cause the flickering. I turned them off, and the flickering went away. Wierd since those processes do not cause problems with any of my other games.

My character's wife pissed me off tonight giving me 4 girls in a row to start the marriage. Fortunately, we finally had a son before I ran off on a Holy Crusade. It's been so long since I've played this game, I can't tell what all of the changes are, but I'm having fun with the game once again.

[Swaggs]

I'm not sure, Kingfc22.

I figured out my problem thanks to the Paradox forums. Apparently, some background processes that Music Match runs cause the flickering. I turned them off, and the flickering went away. Wierd since those processes do not cause problems with any of my other games.

My character's wife pissed me off tonight giving me 4 girls in a row to start the marriage. Fortunately, we finally had a son before I ran off on a Holy Crusade. It's been so long since I've played this game, I can't tell what all of the changes are, but I'm having fun with the game once again.

Just noticed this, but I had that problem with the flickering screen, too.

Do you have the downloaded version? I had suspected it had something to do with that, but next time I play, I will try to make sure all of those hidden musicmatch processess are off (as I have seen them before on ctrl-alt-deletes).

[Eaglesfan27]

Just noticed this, but I had that problem with the flickering screen, too.

Do you have the downloaded version? I had suspected it had something to do with that, but next time I play, I will try to make sure all of those hidden musicmatch processess are off (as I have seen them before on ctrl-alt-deletes).
I have the retail version. I actually won one of the prizes from their pre-release contest when I preordered this. Got a very nice sword with the game :)

[Abe Sargent]

I agree with most of these changes, but this one:

- Only rulers may be excommunicated by the Papal Controller.


That's awful.

-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

I decided to start up a new game of CK with the new patch out. I chose to go with Sligo in N Ireland. After six years, the Pope excommunicated me for NO reason and then everybody claimed my title. One of the local counties declared war, destroyed my army, and then began besieging me. With no other options, I pledge my alliegance to a local Duke - Connacht, I think. He immediately declares war on my aggressor and marches 650 men into my enemy's province to begin a siege.

I think all is well. My liege should wint eh siege well before my opponent does. Then he can sue for peace and vassalize him, which obviously ends the war for me as well. I hate being a vassal, but sometimes you have to pledge - I pledged to Byzantium to avoid Muslim defeat.

However, both England and France decide that my little county on the north of Ireland is worth their notice and declare war. To their credit, the Duchy of Connacht decalred back in both cases. It wasn't long until the King of France himself arrived with 2500 troops and took my county. English forces several thousand strong were besieging my liege. I died in eight years, which I think is a record for me.

Excellent. I *have* to play again!!!

At least I know that I probably took my liege Duke down with me as he was at war with England, France and an Irish Count.

-Anxiety

[WSUCougar]

For what it's worth, Anxiety, the same thing happened in my first 1.05 game with regard to Sligo and excommunication. I was playing as the Duke of Brittany and decided to voyage over to the emerald isle and expand my holdings if I could. Alas, a CTD ended that venture. :(

[Abe Sargent]

As an experiment, I'm going to try Sligo again and see if I get excommed again.


-Anxiety

[Blade6119]

I hope this new patch fixes the norway bug. No matter what county i took, anytime it tried to save after becoming king of norway it crashed...

[twothree]

I started a 1.05 game as Sisnando de Coimbra, Count of Coimbra. I had never played him before, and it looked like a prime place to start. Coimbra is on the Atlantic Ocean with the Muslim countries directly to my south, which should make this a very good place to see how the new crusades work in this patch. Coimbra is also one part of a future Kingdom of Portugal, and I decide to make that my long-term goal.

Sisnando starts out as a vassal to an old duke, Nuno of Portugal. He is also married to the duke's only child Loba of Portugal. So I thought with the duke being so old and not having any male heirs, all I would have to do is produce an heir, and he would inherit both my titles and his grandfather's titles. It looked like an ideal situation. However... the old geezer died after a year and before I could produce a male heir. Someone else became the new duke and now I was a vassal to a duke who had plenty of heirs.

But it gets better... I started the game with a one year old daughter. Well, it wasn't long before Loba had a stork pictured over her, and soon gave birth to my second daughter. A year later, I have another daughter. In two more years I have another daughter. A year later my wife is pregnant again.... and I greet my fifth daughter. I start to think this might be a very short game, as I have no heirs to carry on the Coimbra name.

About this time the pope starts the first crusade. And my liege loses all his territory and his one other vassal to the Muslims. I barely survive and sue for peace, giving up my entire treasury. I end up being completely surrounded by Muslim countries after a few years. During the first crusade, I also meet this really attractive young thing that manages to provide me with a bastard son. However, he is not considered my heir.

I begin to see this game as being almost over, when suddenly my wife who along with me is starting to get up there in years tells me she is pregnant again. All right, I knew I had it in me. Here comes that son I have been waiting to greet. Of course, it's another daughter, so I get mad at the world and start declaring wars left and right.

Meanwhile, I have been marrying off my daughters and one of them produces three sons. So, it looks like one of them will get my title as the Count of Coimbra. During my wars with the Muslims, I manage to capture the territory, Castelo Branco, which is next to Coimbra. I give it to my bastard son, so at least the Count of Castelo Branco will have my name, even though he is not considered my heir.

And then I get my game saving event. At 18 years of age, my "Bastard Son had declared himself your legitimate heir based on his strength of rule." Woo Hoo. I can die a happy man. Too bad I live for a really long time before finally dying and letting my bastard son take over the rule of both territories.

Now the problem I have is that the bastard son is depressed which makes him infertile and he currently has no heirs. Here I go again. :D

[Abe Sargent]

As an experiment, I'm going to try Sligo again and see if I get excommed again.


-Anxiety


17 years in, I die but no excomm. Scotland did us in this time :)

[Barkeep49]

I debated posting this in the general forum, but figure it will get seen here. Has anyone experienced a flickering screen when they try to play? I installed 1.05 on top of a clean install. I can't believe the patch was only 5 MB, so I'm almost wondering if it was a bad download, but I guess I would be seeing more problems than just a flickering screen. Also, I am trying to play without the CD if that matters.
I have this exact problem eagles. Also has plagued me to a far lesser extent with HoI2.

[Izulde]

I'm ashamed to admit that I've yet to download 1.05. I'm too paranoid of screwing up my Orvieto dynasty somehow :D

[PilotMan]

I decided to start up a new game of CK with the new patch out. I chose to go with Sligo in N Ireland. After six years, the Pope excommunicated me for NO reason and then everybody claimed my title. One of the local counties declared war, destroyed my army, and then began besieging me. With no other options, I pledge my alliegance to a local Duke - Connacht, I think. He immediately declares war on my aggressor and marches 650 men into my enemy's province to begin a siege.

I think all is well. My liege should wint eh siege well before my opponent does. Then he can sue for peace and vassalize him, which obviously ends the war for me as well. I hate being a vassal, but sometimes you have to pledge - I pledged to Byzantium to avoid Muslim defeat.

However, both England and France decide that my little county on the north of Ireland is worth their notice and declare war. To their credit, the Duchy of Connacht decalred back in both cases. It wasn't long until the King of France himself arrived with 2500 troops and took my county. English forces several thousand strong were besieging my liege. I died in eight years, which I think is a record for me.

Excellent. I *have* to play again!!!

At least I know that I probably took my liege Duke down with me as he was at war with England, France and an Irish Count.

-Anxiety
I started a game with Galaway which is just to the south of Slingo and the within a month my army had been defeated and we were under siege. I declared allegiance to the same Duke and he came by and kicked ass for me. I remained his vassel for years, as we just couldn't get enough into the treasury to do anything. I had a kick ass son, who ends up being a brilliant strategist, but even though is my firstborn, he is not the heir. His brother is half the warrior he is, but not the leader. Twenty of so years later, getting tired with my lot in life, I decide to get back at my former enemy, and with the help of my leige rightfully defeat my enemy and claim his lands. That officially makes me a duke and I am free from my liege.

That is about where I stand now.

How can I get more money? Our lands are in poor shape, and my relatively new province is under revolt. I feel like Duke of Shitopia.

[PilotMan]

Well I must have done something right. The grandson of the original ruler has now nearly united Ireland and declared himself King. It was a brutal struggle, but now we need to rebuild. Quite an amazing thing. Not only did he lead the army and get numerous prestige bonuses because of his leadership, he also has fatherd about 12 kids. At least there are some vassals I can count on now. It is only 1138, and I fear for the attention that may come this way now.

[Galaril]

Wow this game sounds fun is there a downlodable version or just retail?

[twothree]

I'm ashamed to admit that I've yet to download 1.05. I'm too paranoid of screwing up my Orvieto dynasty somehow :D

It's a good thing you haven't updated to 1.05.

This patch should be applied to a fresh CL installation from your original game CD. You do not need to install any previous patches.

CK 1.05 is not compatible with any save games made with CK 1.04a or earlier (some major exe and handling changes make this impossible). You will need to start a new game with this patch.

Galaril. I have never used their service or downloaded any games from them, but Paradox does offer direct download of some of their games. From their website http://www.paradoxplaza.com , scroll down the page, and at the bottom left are several options for purchasing their games.

[Galaril]

Thanks. After reading more about it i will just buy a cd version (retail) of it. The download entails downloading a 3rd party software tool-sounds like steam like - to play the game.

[Galaril]

I found it for 9.99 at the wargamer online store (nwsonline store).:)

[PineTar]

$9.99 w/ the bonus of HoI thrown in to boot at target (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/601-6995658-9668900?asin=B000CC5VAU&AFID=Froogle&LNM=B000CC5VAU|Crusader_Kings_Hearts_Of_Iron_2pk._for_PC&ref=tgt_adv_XSC10001)

[PilotMan]

Things are still going well in Ireland. It is almost 1200AD and still the King of Ireland. I have added a number of vassels in the islands, England, and Protugal. I am now the Papal Controller as well.

How cool is it that my leige is the King of Ireland, and his brother is the Pope! That is a powerful duo. Now I need to Crusade keep my brother happy.

[Coffee Warlord]

Started up a new game with good old Sjaelland, and modified the dynasty file to use my last name (Nielsen, a fine Danish name in its own right) for my Danish Empire.

It's gone quite bizarre early on. Though very fortunate for me. After a lot of goofing around, we nabbed a couple troop factory provinces in northern germany. Chilled for awhile, and all hell broke loose. Swedish King was discovered to be a kinslayer, and got excommunicated. Begin a massive civil war up there, and both Denmark and Norway got into the mix, nabbing provinces as they could. I myself got a lovely pair of provinces in southern sweden during the upheaval. By this time, we were pretty damned powerful. But we waited.

Then...our King went batshit insane. Schizo + Kinslayer = Excommunication. Loyalty to that madman plummeted, as did the loyalty of every vassal the man had. Shortly thereafter, King Psycho of Denmark sent his troops...somewhere.

Duke Poul Nielsen decided the time was right. We marched, taking control of several provinces under the King's direct control. His vassals followed suit, delcaring their independance from the raving lunatic. After several conflicts, the Duke came out on top, and crowned himself Poul Nielsen, King of the Danes.

And now we're desperately trying to keep our handful of vassals, cousins and brothers all of them, from betraying us. Our reputation is in the toilet after the usurpation.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I was hoping that they'd have the CK/HoI 2-pack in-store at my local Target, but they didn't. :(

[Galaril]

I was hoping that they'd have the CK/HoI 2-pack in-store at my local Target, but they didn't. :(


Check it out at wargamer.com affiliated online store:

http://store.yahoo.com/yhst-12000246778232/crkiheofirpa.html

[Pumpy Tudors]

Thanks for the link. I just don't really want to pay shipping for $10 software. That's why I was hoping to find it in Target. I may change my mind down the road, though, and now I have a convenient link to it. Thanks again!

[PineTar]

Really enjoying CK so far. No complaints on the $13 spent.

[Abe Sargent]

Really enjoying CK so far. No complaints on the $13 spent.


Excellent! Hopefully you won't either.


-Anxiety

[fantastic flying froggies]

So after months of waiting, I finally found this game on E-bay! Got it for 18$, shipping included bundled with Victoria and Two Thrones.

Quick question for you guys, should I install the 1.05 patch right away ?

[Coffee Warlord]

Absolutely yes. Patch it.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Absolutely yes. Patch it.

'k thx CW.

[Peregrine]

I've started playing again recently with the 1.05 patch, and it is a huge difference, it's a great patch that helps the game in a lot of ways.

[Narcizo]

The problem I have with the 1.05 patch is the way the Seljuk Turks seem to wind up with an empire scattered across the whole of Europe, with counties from France, through Germany and Italy and into Hungary. Everything just seems to get too disjointed. Like the Kingdom of France only has about 4 vassals in France but loads of territory in Iraq. It's all down to the fact that armies can march across other people's territories without any problem if they're at war with someone, even if they're conflicting faiths. And the fact that Christian kingdoms have been made more likely to crusade and thus start swapping territories with their enemies as they send a huge army to attack the crusade target while the pagans send their huge armies to attack the homelands of the crusaders.
It just really detracts from the game. As does the Islamic sea-borne invasions of the British Isles and Scandinavia that seem to occur regularly.

To try and get the game even vaguely anchored in reality they ought to prevent armies crossing counties that belong to a different faith unless they're at war and stop muslims using boats at all. Of course they would then have to completely recode the AI so that's never going to happen, unless they make a CK2.

[Blade6119]

I cant stand when i create territories in the muslim world, give it to a court member to run, and immediately he is his own thing...is there a reason for this? Once i got a nice piece carved out into north africa, 6-7 connected provinces. Gave away all 7, 2 stayed apart of my empire and the rest were all free and dandy.

And if i could make 1 change, it would be being able to see which province declared independence instead of hacing to go 1 by 1(a bitch when you are a big kingdom)

[Narcizo]

Aye, that's a bug that they can't fix, apparently. I did read that there is some sort of way of overcoming it but I'm a bit hazy on the details. I think what you have to do is create the ducal title that is linked to the counties. Then grant the counties and give the ducal title to one of the new counts you've created. This will make all the counts vassals of the new duke and should, logically speaking, mean that the counties stay in your demense after the peace treaty (presuming that the duke remains your vassal - there's no reason to suppose he won't). Of course, if you're only a duke then that's no help to you nor is it if you don't have enough of the counties to create the duchy. Also I'm not at all sure about all that so I'd test it first.

[aran]

I purchased this game via the target deal along with HoI for $10 and i'm quite disappointed so far. The interface was really strange and more difficult to learn than it should have been. The game seems to assume that i know a lot about medieval feudalism. I know the basics, but nowhere near enough to play this game, it seems. There are tool-tips, sure, but not for anything/enough.

It's also a pain to look for possible spouses and peruse personel. Screens don't link to each other in intuitive ways more than not. It's frustrating.

Starting out as a lord with no spouse is so annoying. I sit there and look through other provinces for possible wives. It takes forever. My court often is quite inept, which I have no idea how to change aside from just not playing certain characters.

The "create game" screen is terrible. There's nowhere near enough information provided for me to even feel close to like I'm making a good decision on who i want to play. There's no way to view who you are, if you have a spouse, if you already have heirs, your character's info, your court's info, your liege, ANYTHING from the create game screen. The map they provide is often too small for me to even get a good idea of where a county is in the world.

I've been thoroughly underwhelmed with almost every aspect of the game so far.

[MrBug708]

Try it with some cheaps. I know it's not a popular item, but it can help smooth through the interfaces

[Narcizo]

To get an idea of who you want to play as - start a game and save immediately. Then you can look around at the dynasties etc etc. After that you can reload the save game and instead of picking the dynasty you started as you can choose to play as any dynasty you want (a great feature in the game).

There are "bride-finder" programs knocking around the Paradox forum (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238366) which ought to take a lot of pain out of the marriage side (which is probably the worst aspect of the game). Generally speaking arranging marriages seems to be easier with the latest patch, which is a relief.

Most Paradox games seem to suffer from insufficient information/help. Not much I can say about that. Count yourself lucky that you didn't try playing EU1. I spent a good hour trying to figure out how to transport troops on ships. Something of a key aspect as the tutorial was set in Ireland.

[sachmo71]

To get an idea of who you want to play as - start a game and save immediately. Then you can look around at the dynasties etc etc. After that you can reload the save game and instead of picking the dynasty you started as you can choose to play as any dynasty you want (a great feature in the game).

There are "bride-finder" programs knocking around the Paradox forum (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238366) which ought to take a lot of pain out of the marriage side (which is probably the worst aspect of the game). Generally speaking arranging marriages seems to be easier with the latest patch, which is a relief.

Most Paradox games seem to suffer from insufficient information/help. Not much I can say about that. Count yourself lucky that you didn't try playing EU1. I spent a good hour trying to figure out how to transport troops on ships. Something of a key aspect as the tutorial was set in Ireland.


I could never get the bride finder to work...kept crashing. And when I looked, there wasn't much support for it. I think the guy who wrote it quit playing the game or somesuch. It was a few months ago.

[WSUCougar]

I agree that the bride-finding aspect is a pain, but try to role-play it as part of the family-building dynasty aspect of the game. Look at your key neighbors and/or powerful families that you want to marry into. Screen these areas by the various forms of succession so you know if you can inherit some goodies once you're married into the family. Sometimes it's not as important to marry a high-rating bride as it is to hook into a good situation. Of course a balance of these factors is best.

[MrBug708]

Did anyone else get the Crusader Kings 2 email from GamersGate?

[JPhillips]

No, but I saw this on the CrusaderKings Facebook page:

Crusader Kings Once this page has 25,000 fans - we will announce Crusader Kings 2!

Apparently it isn't a hoax.

[sabotai]

It's on their website

Wanted: Crusader Kings 2? - Paradox Interactive (http://www.paradoxplaza.com/news/2010/6/wanted-crusader-kings-2)

[Groundhog]

Oh snap, I'm so happy I could cry!

[Coffee Warlord]

I actually logged into facebook for the first time in years to ping that.

[Izulde]

I immediately rushed to Like after getting the email.

[klayman]

I immediately rushed to Like after getting the email.

Haha, so did I. I have recently re-visted the game with Deus Vaut and the beta patch, and the DVIP mod, and have been enjoying it very much.

[PraetorianX]

Don't forget fellow Crusaders to convert, forcefully if need be, friends and family to the True Faith! Or at least have 'em do you a favor and go 'Like' the CK2 page. Whichever, I'm not too picky.

I'm practically drooling at the thought of CK on the Clausewitz Engine. It's so much more versatile (and moddable) than the Europa Engine was.

If it has the same sort of leap in awesomeness that EUIII (+NA/IN/HttT) had over EUII then CK2 might be the greatest thing ever created by man.

I'm hoping that CK2 (and Vicky 2) are better out of the box and without expansions than EUIII though. But I'm willing to give EUIII and it's need for expansions a pass because EU is always the first game on a completely new engine for Paradox. It's understandable that they have to work some kinks out.

But by now Paradox has done EUIII + 3 ExP's, HoI III + 1 ExP, Rome + 1 ExP and Victoria 2. I expect and hope that they'll really knock this one out of the park.

[Groundhog]

btw, they announced yesterday that there might be some sort of reward for liking it early, so in the unlikely event that some of you haven't liked it yet, I suggest you do so soon. :)

[Warhammer]

Done

[FrogMan]

they will randomly pick one winner per day to get the digital version of the game and did give away 5 boxed version of the game about an hour ago...

FM

[Bad-example]

Some of the entertaining dynasty threads here convinced me to buy this game. I never could get into it but I am really looking forward to see what they come up with in the next version.

[aran]

Vicky 2 is looking really good, and it's not even set in a time period that i'm interested in or care about. It'll be great to see CK2 on a similar engine!

[FrogMan]

Some of the entertaining dynasty threads here convinced me to buy this game. I never could get into it but I am really looking forward to see what they come up with in the next version.

same here, bought it real cheap from GamersGate but never really gave it a chance I guess. It's still installed on my PC (with the Deus Vult expansion) so maybe someday I'll give it a real shot. :)

FM

[MrBug708]

Facebook blurb says "I think we are making a sequel"

Woooooooooo

[Groundhog]

Best news since the announcement of a new FBCB.

[PraetorianX]

I wish I could pre-order already! CK2 and the Clausewitz Engine together, it's going to be brilliant!

I'll admit I wasn't completely sure about Paradox after the disaster that was HoI3...but Victoria II has been exceptional right out of the gate and has restored my faith. HoI was always my least favorite anyway, with Victoria holding #1.

They haven't mentioned any features yet so hopefully we'll get that sometime later today.

Also they're highly likely, I think, to announce an expansion for one of the existing games as well. They have two dev teams, one for full games (CK2) and one for expansions (??) and a few months ago they had a poll asking what expansion people would like to see (I think the options were EUIII - RotW, Rome - Alexander, Victoria II - ACW, HoI3 - everything...) so hopefully we'll get an announcement on that soon.

I'm hoping for a Rome expansion, that poor game needs some loving.

[Big Fo]

Heh, I was just on the Paradox forums to look at some of the mods for Victoria II and saw that there is now a Crusader Kings II forum. There wasn't much information on the game though, just an estimated release date of Q1 2012.

[Passacaglia]

Heh, I was just on the Paradox forums to look at some of the mods for Victoria II and saw that there is now a Crusader Kings II forum. There wasn't much information on the game though, just an estimated release date of Q1 2012.

2012? Well that doesn't make me feel bad about buying it last week. But reading this thread has me itching to get my dynasty started, but I've got too much work to do for the next few days first!

By the way, does anyone know if I can email a saved game and play it on two different computers easily?

[MrBug708]

Ahhhhhhh....so long!

[PraetorianX]

2012? Well that doesn't make me feel bad about buying it last week. But reading this thread has me itching to get my dynasty started, but I've got too much work to do for the next few days first!

By the way, does anyone know if I can email a saved game and play it on two different computers easily?

You should be able to as long as both are the same version.

[Izulde]

Hopefully the long development cycle means some fantastic improvements.

[Groundhog]

Hopefully at the least an expanded world map with the Asian nations too.

[PraetorianX]

Hopefully the long development cycle means some fantastic improvements.

They haven't said much about what's new, perhaps partly because they were having some internet troubles at the convention in Cologne.

One thing I did see mentioned here (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=da&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.strategium-alliance.com%2FCrusader-Kings-2.8229.0.html) is that each province will have 'baron' characters or somesuch, so that could be interesting. They'll also be adding a version of the personal ambitions from Rome: Vae Victus. That should make things fun.

Hopefully at the least an expanded world map with the Asian nations too.

I think they'll likely expand it somewhat but I wouldn't expect it too far into asia. In Persia, Arabia and Africa a bit yeah, but I doubt we'll be seeing Asia proper much. It's still going to be centered around Christian nobility, after all.

[MrBug708]

Dev Diary 1 (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?503167-Dev-Diary-1)

[Izulde]

No badboy is going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

Aging character portraits sounds fascinating.

[PraetorianX]

Badboy/Infamy didn't really fit in with the era.

I mean look at the Hundred Years War, it had nothing to do with either sad being overly naughty but was a dispute between the two dynasties. As were most wars during the time (save for the obvious other examples, which also had nothing to do with badboy).

I like how they're putting less focus on the 'nation' and more on the 'dynasty' and individual characters.

And the aging isn't really a huge feature in that it could make or break the game, but it's a huge feature in terms of immersion. When you're going to playing a dynasty and individual characters, being able to become more immersed in that world can only be a good thing.

It was always sort of annoying to see your kid finally get old enough to get a portrait, and see him looking old and gray.

[Peregrine]

One thing I'd like to see is some support for your dynasty including rulers of more than one area. In the original CK if you set up a relative in charge of another country, you basically got no credit for it. In history, many of the most powerful dynasties were powerful because they controlled, as a family, lots of titles and territory - they didn't have to have one head guy ruling it all, as in CK.

[PraetorianX]

One thing I'd like to see is some support for your dynasty including rulers of more than one area. In the original CK if you set up a relative in charge of another country, you basically got no credit for it. In history, many of the most powerful dynasties were powerful because they controlled, as a family, lots of titles and territory - they didn't have to have one head guy ruling it all, as in CK.

It'd be cool if there was more interaction between members of the same dynasty that are ruling in separate countries. Say as King of France you manage to get your young brother or nephew or something on the throne of Castille or something. After a time, maybe a few generations, the Castille dynasty might start challenging you for being 'head of the family' or somesuch.

Whoever is the 'head' of the family, the most prestigious member of the family, could have certain special interactions with other members. Say asking them not to ally with one of your enemies or telling them not to marry so and so or somesuch.

[MrBug708]

From reading the forums, I've noticed that there will be twins born to your character, though no mention on how first born male twin heirs will be handled (depending on your succession law). I also read that there will be an option for bastards being born where you can claim the bastard, kill the bastard, and a new option of allowing the bastard to live, but with a different surname.

[MrBug708]

Dev Diary 2 - Barons and Settlements (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?506242-Dev-Diary-2-Barons-and-Settlements)

Dev Diary 2

[Abe Sargent]

I love this update, and I expecially like this:

Another measure to keep the character count down in Crusader Kings II is that you can have your vassals double as councillors (so there is less need for minor nobles to be created by the game).


Because not only is it realistic, but I don;t have to keep my amazing son in my court instead of granting him a title, and so forth.

[JPhillips]

I love this update, and I expecially like this:



Because not only is it realistic, but I don;t have to keep my amazing son in my court instead of granting him a title, and so forth.

Hopefully they're learning from Vicky2 and HOI3 that performance really does matter.

[Izulde]

Too bad barons aren't playable. I'd love to go from baron to king.

[Izulde]

And, of course, see if I can mod the fictional Suchet barons in. :D

[Abe Sargent]

Dev Diary 3:

Paradox Interactive Forums - Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 3 - Laws (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?342-Crusader-Kings-II-Dev-Diary-3-Laws)


I particularly like this one:


Therefore, a player who is, for example, king of Norway and Denmark must change de jure laws separately per kingdom. To make things even more interesting, succession at the kingdom level (and only at the kingdom level) is also handled per kingdom, so Norway might be an elective monarchy while Denmark has primogeniture. Thus, the Norwegian dukes might elect another successor to the throne of Norway than the oldest son of the current king, which would split the kingdoms apart...

It's very realistic

[MrBug708]

Sweet! Does this mean females can't inherit? (Though I do notice female chancellors!)

[Abe Sargent]

Sweet! Does this mean females can't inherit? (Though I do notice female chancellors!)

Where it says you can make all laws Cognatic or Agnatic, that refers to through females or just through males.

[Izulde]

New dev diary. Regnal numbers for Duke and higher levels. Popes now change names after election.

[MrBug708]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/01/25/throne-together-a-crusader-kings-ii-preview/

[Chief Rum]

Any word on when this is due to be completed?

[MrBug708]

2012 :(

Other info about the game (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?495150-Other-info-about-the-game)

Couple of clips in that thread

[Chief Rum]

2012?!? WTH? That seems like an awfully long time.

[MrBug708]

Yup. But those videos in that thread have some nice bits of info in it. Worth watching for fans

[MrBug708]

Map Diary up

Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 5 - The map (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?519481-Crusader-Kings-II-Dev-Diary-5-The-map)

[Coffee Warlord]

2012?!? WTH? That seems like an awfully long time.

I'm thinking they release in 2011. The 2012 date is the standard Paradox Rule - Add a year or so to the release date, and that's when the game is at its best.

[SunDevil]

I'm thinking they release in 2011. The 2012 date is the standard Paradox Rule - Add a year or so to the release date, and that's when the game is at its best.

Actually my rule for Paradox games is wait until the game has a gold pack (aka 2.5 years after release) as the best time to play game. By that time the mods are solid.

[MrBug708]

Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 7 - Character Portraits and Modding (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?530197-Crusader-Kings-II-Dev-Diary-7-Character-Portraits-and-Modding)

[sabotai]

No infamy or loyalty in CK II. Unilateral relations replace it. For a character-driven game, this is an awesome idea IMO.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tqmTYQwx4hg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[JPhillips]

After the problems with Vicky2 and HOI3 I'm really expecting this game to be a disaster. Too bad.

[Izulde]

I tried Vicky2 again the other day and was completely lost on how to buy stuff on the world market, cuz wasn't nothing available and I got bored pretty quickly.

[PilotMan]

Some new screenshots on the facebook page make me think that this a must buy.

[Barkeep49]

Some new screenshots on the facebook page make me think that this a must buy.
Screenshots no longer get me excited about buying Paradox games - patch notes do. That said I am excited about this as after EU I've definitely played CK the most.

[JPhillips]

Screenshots no longer get me excited about buying Paradox games - patch notes do.

+infinity

[JPhillips]

I had my most successful ruler in CK last night. I started as England with William. I started by solidifying the realm and then taking the Welsh lands to become king of England and Wales. I didn't want to take on Scotland so early, so after building up some money I set sail for the Holy Lands to complete the crusades. The Muslim states around Jerusalem had been fighting for a while and William the Conqueror marched his 7000 man army through enough counties to add the King of Jerusalem to his titles.

At this point William had an obscene amount of prestige(@4500) and a rather bad reputation. Philip Capet saw an opening, and France declared war. At this point Capet only owned one province and William had eyes on the French crown. I spent 4200 prestige to lay a claim on the French crown and mobilized my Normandy provinces. I ran all my Normandy troops to Ile de France and defeated Capet and took the province.

The peace settlement left William as king of England, Wales, Jerusalem, France and Aquitania with 17 Dukes as vassals. Less than a year later, a 73 year old William finally died.

[MrBug708]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?560814-Crusader-Kings-II-Dev-Diary-12

[PilotMan]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xfImGGYoc1g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Get your name in Crusader Kings II! (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?563513-Get-your-name-in-Crusader-Kings-II)

[PineTar]

Beta Signup (http://beta.paradoxplaza.com/signup/26/)

[MrBug708]

Dont spread the word! lol

[MrBug708]

Looks like it could be February 7th, 2012 (I'm assuming that the 2011 is a mistake)

GameShark | Previews | Crusader Kings II Preview (http://www.gameshark.com/previews/3526/p_0/Crusader-Kings-II-Preview.htm)

[Izulde]

Signed up for the beta. :D

[MrBug708]

As did I. Did you get INTO the beta though? :)

Crusader Kings II - Dev Diary 16 - Technology (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?565679-Crusader-Kings-II-Dev-Diary-16-Technology)

[Izulde]

Sadly, I was not one of the chosen. :(

[MrBug708]

It was like not getting picked in "head's up, 7up" all over again :(

[Coffee Warlord]

Booooo.

[Peregrine]

Wow, mega interview and gameplay presentation with Johan Andersson - awesome! Unfortunately it's split into 5 parts, but worth the annoyance I think.

Start the first video at 10 minutes.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bCHv6e776_E" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bCHv6e776_E)


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xAwh-7G2Yd4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bCHv6e776_E)


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_VeGbRkBrk0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/It-9nV1Aczg" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PA7ygd8BIuo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

[PilotMan]

New series of seven cheerily ramshackle live action trailers for Crusader Kings II is announced! Watch the first video treating the first deadly sin here:



<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lpAYY3BvviE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[MrBug708]

Hopefully we are getting closer to the day of release!

[Barkeep49]

Hopefully we are getting closer to the day of release of the second patch!

Fixed.

[MrBug708]

DEMO'S OUT!

FilePlanet: Crusader Kings II Demo (http://www.fileplanet.com/224596/220000/fileinfo/Crusader-Kings-II-Demo)

[DaddyTorgo]

Hot. Looking forward to this game pretty much 100% for the Westeros-mod that is already being worked on by a team.

There was a mod for CKI done by one guy that is totally playable - looking forward to this one something major.

[MrBug708]

Pretty enjoyable game in the 20 year demo. Digging the marriage thing

[Izulde]

Welp so much for getting any work done. :D

[Swaggs]

Is this going to be available for Macs?

[DaddyTorgo]

Ugh...I meant to DL the demo and check it out last night. Now it's Superbowl Sunday. Grrrr.

[MrBug708]

20 years with only four playable options

[Izulde]

Is it just me or was the map a lot easier to see and read in the original?

[Izulde]

One thing I will say that's awesome, though. I decided to give Matilda a crack and I am now the Queen Consort of Africa after marrying an African sultan (got 20 prestige for it too, plus another 20 prestige for marrying a ruler ambition). Even more hilarious? One of the possible plots is to kill the husband, but unfortunately I'm not in the line of succession.

[Apathetic Lurker]

20 years with only four playable options

Were you perhaps expecting the full game as a demo?

[Izulde]

so I belatedly realized that I have to arrange a matrilineal marriage to get Matilda's kids to be of her dynasty, so I assassinate Sultan husband, only to find out nobody, not even a mayor, wants to marry a Duchess in a matrilineal union... so I had to marry some courtier and take a huge prestige hit, even though I did my best to find one from a prestigous family.

[MrBug708]

Were you perhaps expecting the full game as a demo?

Just informing but I would rather have five years with dynadtu

[MrBug708]

Is it just me or was the map a lot easier to see and read in the original?

Not just u

[bhlloy]

Demo has me pretty hooked, had a fun game going with the kingdom of Poland where I wouldn't give in to my vassals demands and basically had a kingdom splitting civil war going on, after I finally dealt with that started declaring holy roman war on some of the smaller single county states around me and was doing well until I nuked a 5000 strong army trying to assault a castle. Note to self, don't do that again.

I never got into CK1, was much more of a EU person but this demo seems very good. Must buy even with all the Paradox day 1 bugginess.

[Izulde]

Yeah this'll be a day one pick up for me as well. I was having too much fun picking random courtiers and doing what I could to build up their dynasties to prominence.

Might try Boleslaw next demo go round just to see what all these crown laws, etc. do.

[Peregrine]

Been looking forward to this a lot but don't know all the details - I know I really liked some of the dynasty features in EU: Rome, like being able to see how much money characters had and who would inherit it, and which dynasties (last names) were most powerful. Does anyone know if CK2 will have anything along these lines?

[Izulde]

Been looking forward to this a lot but don't know all the details - I know I really liked some of the dynasty features in EU: Rome, like being able to see how much money characters had and who would inherit it, and which dynasties (last names) were most powerful. Does anyone know if CK2 will have anything along these lines?

-Dynasty prestige per family is included. In fact, when searching for marriages, one of the criteria you can use to look at characters is whether or not they're from Great Houses.

As I noted above, one of my fave things to do in the demo so far is to take a 0 prestige courtier dynasty and try to raise it in prestige and power by granting family members titles, arranging marriages for them, etc.

-You can appoint Courtiers to be heirs to bishophorics with certain amount of religious authority I'm pretty sure.

-How money characters have has always been in CK

-The game tells you if a character is heir to a certain title on their screen.

[korme]

as much as i respect crusader kings an overwhelmingly deep and thorough game... i just find myself staring at the map doing nothing. i never know what to do.

[Lonnie]

For the demo I just made some mini goals, as King of Poland.

1 - Stay alive for 20 years.
2 - Make sure I have an heir.
3 - Reclaim a piece of former Polish land.

Day one I sent a letter off to Norway to secure the hand of a hot little Princess up that way. She had an ambition to marry a ruler, might as well fulfill it. Wow, her dad is the King of Norway. I now have an alliance. I now set my ambition to have a son and secure my heir.

Now for that taking back of lands thing. I raised a few troops and then decided to declare war on Yatvyagi. Those were Polish lands that I must reclaim in the name of my father. Hmm. Can't declare war with troops mustered. Ok troops go home. Declare war. WTF... he instantly has 2500 troops out of a three counties? Then he immediately attacks Plock. I raise troops across my land and send them forth to fight. I don't have enough?? What the hell I have 14 counties. ..Oh, mercenaries. I hire a band of thugs and take back Plock and then move on to Yatvyagi. He sues for peace giving me the county.

I have a daughter, and due to the succession laws she will rule in case of my death. I really wanted to have a son though. Time to head back to the bed chamber.

So at this point my goals were fulfilled. I was going to save and call it a night, but save is disabled in the demo so I set speed to max and ran out the 20 years. I had two sons during that time, so I fulfilled my ambition of having a son. Final score was 1447.

I learned a few things along the way of that first game. Don't marry a princess just because she looks better than the others. Mine ended up being across the sea and the alliance did nothing to help me in my war. A closer neighbor could have lent me a hand. Also don't disband troops from your lazy brother's levie because he's bitching about it. It just so happens they are merged with your mercenaries and you end up dismissing the 2000 guys you just paid a pot of gold to, doh.

I stared at the map a lot, but I did have things to do. Just increase the speed until something happens.

[Lonnie]

Is CK2 going to be on Steam? I don't see it on the coming soon list and there is no preorder there.

[Izulde]

Being able to buy mercenaries rather than have them fire by event is one of my favorite additions in this game, I think. I used them, too, in my wars with Lombardia as Mathilda.

[PraetorianX]

Is CK2 going to be on Steam? I don't see it on the coming soon list and there is no preorder there.

It's supposed to be made available for pre-order sometime this week.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Demo has me pretty hooked, had a fun game going with the kingdom of Poland where I wouldn't give in to my vassals demands and basically had a kingdom splitting civil war going on, after I finally dealt with that started declaring holy roman war on some of the smaller single county states around me and was doing well until I nuked a 5000 strong army trying to assault a castle. Note to self, don't do that again.

I never got into CK1, was much more of a EU person but this demo seems very good. Must buy even with all the Paradox day 1 bugginess.

I tried Poland too. Married of my king to some Moslem noblewoman just to see if it was possible..Every time I tried this in CK 1 this type of mixed marriage never produced any heirs..But this one, what a baby machine ! By the time the demo ended I had 4 girls and 2 boys...

[MrBug708]

I like having a mixed bag on the age when the people die

[sabotai]

WTF... he instantly has 2500 troops out of a three counties? Then he immediately attacks Plock. I raise troops across my land and send them forth to fight. I don't have enough?? What the hell I have 14 counties. .

Pagans get a bonus to the number of troops they can raise. It's meant, I think, to prevent them from being overrun early in the game.

[Lonnie]

Pagans get a bonus to the number of troops they can raise. It's meant, I think, to prevent them from being overrun early in the game.

I guess that would explain it then. Looking back I though he just hired some mercenaries.

[Izulde]

Putzed around with Boleslaw and noted a few things

-Evidently you can only change the crown laws once per reign? That kinda sucks.
-It seems like in a few games, wars have been started without claims on titles between vassals, including this one. The war title says it's over some city or the other, but it would be nice to have a place that lists all your causus bellis.
-I ran out of money to pay a merc outfit with and he declared war on me, getting a claim on the Kingship of Poland. Whoa! I won after the Pope gave me enough money to buy a bigger band the HRE, my allies, helped me after I warred with the pagans for them.
-A bunch of my vassals started a war to depose me and in the treaty I accidentally clicked Surrender when I meant Enforce Demands. End result? The dude I negotiated with became King of Poland and I was reduced to a Duke with him as my new liege. That also changed the ruling dynasty, which was also pretty neat.

[Izulde]

Oh and can I just say, I love the ordinal numbers? I was like awesome when I saw Boleslaw III even with the dynasty change.

[PraetorianX]

BTW, you can play as anybody in the demo.

You have to click on one of the four first, then press play, then quickly press on a province of whomever you wish to play as.

Playing as Harold I of England is not easy, let me tell you.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - I started a demo game as some random somebody or other last night.

[Lonnie]

Pre-order is up on Steam now. Same two free DLC as GamersGate and others.
I don't see why the Dynasty Shields DLC was not just part of the game. I'll have to check the demo again, but I guess it doesn't show shields for the dynasties. Or maybe the base game ones are fictional and this DLC is the actual historic shields? The Mongol pack seems like a more appropriate DLC; seven new sprites and thousands of faces.

[Lonnie]

Dola, you also get the complete first CK when you pre-order. Not that you'll be playing it much after this one is released.

[Izulde]

Yeah, map readability issues aside, CK2 is so much better than CK1, it's ridiculous.

I might even want to get back into long dynasty writing.

[sabotai]

I might even want to get back into long dynasty writing.

Me too. I'm thinking of doing a CK2-EU3-Vicky2-HOI3 dynasty, even if I have to take a long break in between games to do a bit of modding and editing of the saved game file. Not getting too crazy with populations, tech and whatnot, just making sure the right nations exist and they hold the right provinces.

[Icy]

What is the price in steam USA? 39,99€ in Europe, so around $50.

[Lonnie]

$39.99

[DaddyTorgo]

Aw lordy - that's balls.

Icy - if you want someone to buy it for you at USD price and gift it to you, let us know!

[MrBug708]

Man, started as the brother of King Harold and waited while Norway marched through his demise. I decided to declare independence and went after some of his lands as well. I had picked up three and got greedy and marched south. During that time, Harold surrendered England to Norway, so I suddenly found myself at war with Norway, who was also now the King of England. One of their three 6K+ armies in England annihilated my 1500 strong army and I was forced to do a white peace. Now I was under England/Norway, who was at war with half of Europe. Poland marches into England and lands on the British Isles with a 4000 strong army after me. Of course, that Norwegian army had moved on so my lands were being picked apart and I couldnt offer anything to Poland since we both the lesser parts of the alliance. It went bad to worse as Poland moved on, but Harold's small demise decided for some revenge and came after me. I was getting raped again when the demo ended...haha

[DaddyTorgo]

Is there a way to like...search for eligible marriage prospects across Europe? I want to marry someone...useful...and I don't want to have to click on every county in Europe.

[MrBug708]

YEs. In the far right icon out of the groups along the top left corner. It allows you to search for a whole lot of people

[DaddyTorgo]

Nevermind. I found it.

[DaddyTorgo]

There's also the little rings icon/button thingy on your character's screen that is for "Arrange Marriage" that searches Europe.

Good stuff.

[Icy]

Aw lordy - that's balls.

Icy - if you want someone to buy it for you at USD price and gift it to you, let us know!

Thanks i will!
I need to download the demo and give it a go to decide, hopefully today.

[PraetorianX]

There's also the little rings icon/button thingy on your character's screen that is for "Arrange Marriage" that searches Europe.

Good stuff.

I've found that the most useful option, as it usually lists some good matches.

[PraetorianX]

Oh, btw, they just released the manual for download.

Crusader Kings II - Manual (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?583630-Crusader-Kings-II-Manual)

[DaddyTorgo]

Thank god - i needed the manual.

[Chief Rum]

Is there a way to like...search for eligible marriage prospects across Europe? I want to marry someone...useful...and I don't want to have to click on every county in Europe.

heh... CKmatch.com

[DaddyTorgo]

So I got tired and quit my demo, but not before marrying the Polish king to the daughter of the HRE and losing a war with Mecklenburg (need to work on my war tactics).

[Izulde]

Played a game as the High Chieftan of Mecklemberg. Some cool things and oddities.

Oddities
*I was an elector for both the King of Poland and the Holy Roman Empire despite being independent. I don't know if this is WAD or a bug.
*I couldn't change my succession laws to Seniority or Primogeniture because the HRE didn't have enough crown authority. Again, I'm independent, so why does that matter?
*As a pagan, I couldn't wage war on Catholics, even though they're religious enemies. I could war on religious enemies as a Catholic in all my other games, so that kind of pissed me off. Seems like it's a way to nerf pagans.

Cool Things
*I married a Basque princess and she fell in love with me, so I was able to get her to convert to my pagan religion.
*I then became the King of Navarre's vassal in order to convert to Basque and Mecklemberg ended up converting to Basque as well by event later on in the game.
*An event fired where I turned Catholic under the influence of my liege, so the Christanization of my land was afoot, including re-converting my wife back to her old religion. My eldest daughter, who originally was pagan, converted to Catholicism on her own as time went by.
*I switched to elective law because I hate Gavelkind. I supported my eldest daughter and firstborn, a vassal I elevated to Count supported himself, but then when I elevated two Bishops to Count-level (Prince Bishop), both of them supported my oldest son (#2 child), presumably because he had the higher piety.
*One of my sons had a Portuguese woman as his guardian, with an eye to making the son a Steward. His culture converted from Basque to Portuguese.
*My ruler became Incapable when he was 48 and my wife took over as Regent, but before I could go too deep into that, the demo ran out.

Things That Irk Me
*Other than the oddities above, I really, really miss Consanguinity. I still don't know the difference between Seniority and Primogeniture. Give me Consanguinity back!!!
*Nobody higher than a Baron wanted to even give my eldest daughter a regular marriage, even though she was the heir to what was a massive duchy (I controlled three Duke titles by the time I switched to Elective). I mean hell, it's not like I was asking for a Matrilineal marriage!

Other Cool Things Overall
*I love being able to name my children whatever I want.
*I think I'm finally starting to get the hang of missions for council members and those are pretty cool, especially sending out your court chaplain to convert provinces and nobles to the liege faith.

I can't wait for this game to come out. So, so much cool stuff.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, the logic for who will marry how seems funky as hell right now. Had a fun game going as Powys (was able to create Wales and ended up with over 1300 prestige by end of 20 years) but I was able to marry off all my close relatives to some of the most powerful kingdoms in Europe. I think I had a princess of France, a princess of Galicia and a princess of HRE in my court and was able to marry off a few daughters into other powerful families.

On the flip side, if I tried to marry somebody from my court to a less powerful duchy or barony closer to home they would reject it most of the time. So there might be a reason behind that but god knows if I can figure it out. Seems backwards to me.

[Lonnie]

I did another play through as the Duke of Bohemia.

Goals were immediately apparent as a tip told me two titles could be created. Duchy of Moravia and Kingdom of Bohemia. Currently I am under the HRE Kaiser. I should rebuild the Kingdom!

Lucky for me I was married to the King of Poland's sister and also by brother had in laws in Hungry. My other borders were all HRE, which so happens I am the Marshall of. I was able to play the entire 20 years in peace building up Prestige and Piety and making babies. My worst enemy was my brother Ota who didn't like me that much, so I kept my councilor in his county repeatedly telling him how great I was.

Once I paid off the Pope enough times I had to 200 piety needed to claim King of Bohemia. That severed my duties as Marshall of HRE, but the Kaiser asked me if I would like to still do the job. Why not?

Now a King it was harder to find suitable mates for my daughters. No one came calling, and all I could find were a couple of Duke's sons and some counts. By 21 my oldest daughter was worried that she would not wed, so I promised her I would find her someone. Just so happen the Kaiser of the HRE had a 12 year old son, so I betrothed her to this young Prince.

Cruising right along, and the Kaiser dies when the kid is 17 1/2. He names me regent. I though cool, I can control the troops now, but no... seems it was a title only. Six months later he was in full control.

I lived to the ripe age of 54 when the demo ended with a score of 1427. It would probably have been boring to some, but I thought it was cool that I could play as a pacifist and still get things accomplished.

[Izulde]

I played a low born count and discovered you can only matrilineal marry noble women, so I did that with Princess Urraca who went to war with King Alfonso and got herself imprisoned, then executed, so I normal married a low-born woman.

Happily, the Khan of Cuman decided to give me a county so this new county elevated me to legitimate house status. Unfortunately the ending was bugged to say No Dynasty after the demo ran out which sucked. I wanted my nifty CoA flying there that I got for doing absolutely nothing. :D

I did, however, start a war for a nearby County and was winning, but then the Duke who was liege of said Count (and who I had to start the war with), called in two of his Ducal allies so I had to white peace out.

[PraetorianX]

Played a game as the High Chieftan of Mecklemberg. Some cool things and oddities.

Oddities
*I was an elector for both the King of Poland and the Holy Roman Empire despite being independent. I don't know if this is WAD or a bug.
*I couldn't change my succession laws to Seniority or Primogeniture because the HRE didn't have enough crown authority. Again, I'm independent, so why does that matter?
*As a pagan, I couldn't wage war on Catholics, even though they're religious enemies. I could war on religious enemies as a Catholic in all my other games, so that kind of pissed me off. Seems like it's a way to nerf pagans.

Things That Irk Me
*Other than the oddities above, I really, really miss Consanguinity. I still don't know the difference between Seniority and Primogeniture. Give me Consanguinity back!!!
*Nobody higher than a Baron wanted to even give my eldest daughter a regular marriage, even though she was the heir to what was a massive duchy (I controlled three Duke titles by the time I switched to Elective). I mean hell, it's not like I was asking for a Matrilineal marriage!

You were playing as a Pagan, that may explain some of the oddities because I don't believe the game is set up to be played as a non-Christian.

The elector thing is likely because you're within the de jure limits of the HRE. No clue about Poland though. Again it may have something to do with playing as a Pagan, dunno. I'd suggest bringing it up on the Paradox forums (if it hasn't been brought up already).

And you may be able to find out why they rejected your marriage proposals by looking at the modifiers for their decision. When you're on the diplomatic screen to do the marriage, before you hit the ok button (or whatever it is, I forget at the moment) above it will have a "No", "Maybe" or "Yes"...hover over it and it'll give you the reasons for why they are likely (or not) to accept.

[MrBug708]

On startup, it did say that crown laws can affect your land even if you are not specifically part of that du jour kingdom (Paraphrasing)

[Izulde]

Fair enough.

Played another game as a low-born, who only seem to be present in the Cuman territory and this time the Khan gave me a bunch of counties.

So I spent the game marrying a bunch of Swedish Norse pantheon worshippers to my court and gradually ended up converting all my children into Norse pagans. Only problem was, they also turned Swedish culture, which I didn't want.

My first ruler died and my Swedish Norse Pagan daughter took over but it was too late before the demo ran out to start converting everyone to Thor and Odin while still retaining Cuman culture.

The way to do the culture/religion changes for your kids is have their guardian be a different culture and/or religion.

[MrBug708]

These next few days are going to go by slowly :(

[Lonnie]

Yep, I stopped playing the demo so I can try to not think about how my Dynasty would have continued.

I tried to play original CK some and it was painful.

[Izulde]

Part of me is glad CK2 isn't out until next week, because I have a ton of stuff due that I need to work on and finish this weekend.

The other part of me really, really wants it to be out because I'm going crazy having all these demo games run out too soon.

[Izulde]

dola,

I played as an Iberian Muslim my last demo game and that was fun, too. Pledged to Leon and that allowed me to usurp the Cordoba title and go to war with the county of Cordoba to force him to be my vassal.

[MrBug708]

I think my first dynasty will be to unite Ireland

[Groundhog]

I think my first dynasty will be to unite Ireland

This was my first ever goal in the original CK actually. I think the problem is that, once you've done that, you are so far away from the rest of the world that you sorta really have to deal with Scotland or England next.

[Izulde]

Or more specifically, you have to worry about England gobbling you up.

[MrBug708]

This was my first ever goal in the original CK actually. I think the problem is that, once you've done that, you are so far away from the rest of the world that you sorta really have to deal with Scotland or England next.

I dont mind creating my kingdom in Ireland and staying pretty independent. I'll usually try to marry my way into another kingdom, usually wales and work from there

[MrBug708]

Had another cool moment where I had a nephew marry a Tunisian and Muslim courtier and the second son had a hue like that of the mother, not the father and the older brother!

[whomario]

some quick questions on the CK2 demo :

can somebody explain to me how to "train" my kids ? I go to the diplomacy menu but there isn´t an option to assign a mentor (same when going to the "mentor" first)

also, daughters show up as sons for me ?!?

also, can someone explain to me how to go to war or how to assist someone ? For some reason when playing as the king of poland my vasals keep whaling on each other, what´s up with that ?

[Izulde]

some quick questions on the CK2 demo :

can somebody explain to me how to "train" my kids ? I go to the diplomacy menu but there isn´t an option to assign a mentor (same when going to the "mentor" first)

They have to be old enough to have a guardian. I forget the exact age.


also, daughters show up as sons for me ?!?

Bug, maybe?


also, can someone explain to me how to go to war or how to assist someone ? For some reason when playing as the king of poland my vasals keep whaling on each other, what´s up with that ?

You need a legal casus belli to go to war, usually through a claim on a county, or through an independent vassal being in the de jure region of a title you hold.

Vassals can go to war because your crown authority (found in the Laws screen) isn't high enough.

[Lonnie]

can somebody explain to me how to "train" my kids ? I go to the diplomacy menu but there isn´t an option to assign a mentor (same when going to the "mentor" first)

If they are old enough there will be a diplomacy option called Educate Child I believe.

[MrBug708]

6 years old is when you can educate them

[whomario]

Thanks !

-What if someone declares war on me, how can i counter that ?

Damn, i was under the impression that the game would be a little less complex/involve less micromanaging than EUIII, but after a couple hours with the demo i am not so sure about that anymore ...

Is there any step-by-step guide out there for the last version to get more of an idea ? I am especially perplexed by the options for building and military. When is it a good time to build something, where should i sent my advisors for better economy/military ideas etc ?

I wish there were options to leave stuff to the CPU and only concentrate on certain things yourself.

[MrBug708]

If someone declares war, you can only have a defensive war against them. If you go all out on their country, when they surrender, you don't get their land

[DaddyTorgo]

If someone declares war, you can only have a defensive war against them. If you go all out on their country, when they surrender, you don't get their land

That's kind of annoying.

[MrBug708]

It's considered a defensive war so I understand where they are coming from. To take land, you need a CB

[cschex]

I haven't played around with the demo enough, but wouldn't you be able to take land in a defensive war if you have a claim? Example, France declares war on England, if England has a claim on one or more of France's counties, that could potentially get rolled into the peace offer if England wins. Can anyone confirm if that's in place?

[MrBug708]

Possibly, but the war was declared to steal your lands. Not sure in that scenario what would happen, but the peace process is quite simple and you can't demand a lot like previously

[Izulde]

I *think* you can enforce claims you have in a defensive war, but I don't remember for sure.