Jerome Bettis HOF Worthy? [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

Rich1033

07-05-2004, 01:52 AM

Jerome Bettis has been in the league for 11 years. In seven of those years he didn't rush for 4 yards a carry.
Thats probably why some people think he is on the fence. He should be in the top 5 when he retires. That gets him in by brute force alone.

I just meant that Eddie will need some help getting into the HOF. He is close, he just need another good season or two. Unless he can get back in the upper 3s in ypc I dont know how many carries the Titans can keep giving him. I loves Eddies heart, but as a Titans fan I want to see Chris Brown get more carries this season.

Here are his stats for those interested.

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="772"> <tbody><tr align="right" bgcolor="#aaaaa4"><td align="left">EAR</td><td>TEAM</td><td>G</td><td>GS</td><td>ATT</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>REC</td><td>YDS</td><td>AVG</td><td>LNG</td><td>TD</td><td>FUM</td><td>LST</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ccccc4"><td align="left">1996</td><td>TEN</td><td>16</td><td>14</td><td>335</td><td>1368</td><td>4.1</td><td>76</td><td>8</td><td>23</td><td>182</td><td>7.9</td><td>17</td><td>0</td><td>3</td><td>2</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ecece4"><td align="left">1997</td><td>TEN</td><td>16</td><td>16</td><td>357</td><td>1399</td><td>3.9</td><td>30</td><td>6</td><td>7</td><td>44</td><td>6.3</td><td>15</td><td>1</td><td>4</td><td>3</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ccccc4"><td align="left">1998</td><td>TEN</td><td>16</td><td>16</td><td>348</td><td>1294</td><td>3.7</td><td>37</td><td>5</td><td>37</td><td>310</td><td>8.4</td><td>29</td><td>1</td><td>7</td><td>1</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ecece4"><td align="left">1999</td><td>TEN</td><td>16</td><td>16</td><td>320</td><td>1304</td><td>4.1</td><td>40</td><td>9</td><td>47</td><td>458</td><td>9.7</td><td>54</td><td>4</td><td>5</td><td>4</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ccccc4"><td align="left">2000</td><td>TEN</td><td>16</td><td>16</td><td>403</td><td>1509</td><td>3.7</td><td>35</td><td>14</td><td>50</td><td>453</td><td>9.1</td><td>24</td><td>2</td><td>5</td><td>3</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ecece4"><td align="left">2001</td><td>TEN</td><td>16</td><td>16</td><td>315</td><td>939</td><td>3.0</td><td>27</td><td>5</td><td>37</td><td>279</td><td>7.5</td><td>25</td><td>0</td><td>8</td><td>6</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ccccc4"><td align="left">2002</td><td>TEN</td><td>16</td><td>16</td><td>343</td><td>1165</td><td>3.4</td><td>35</td><td>12</td><td>36</td><td>255</td><td>7.1</td><td>14</td><td>2</td><td>1</td><td>1</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ecece4"><td align="left">2003</td><td>TEN</td><td>16</td><td>16</td><td>312</td><td>1031</td><td>3.3</td><td>27</td><td>5</td><td>22</td><td>163</td><td>7.4</td><td>22</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>0</td></tr><tr align="right" bgcolor="#ccccc4"><td colspan="2" align="left">Total</td><td>128</td><td>126</td><td>2733</td><td>10009</td><td>3.7</td><td>76</td><td>64</td><td>259</td><td>2144</td><td>8.3</td><td>54</td><td>10</td><td>34</td><td>20</td></tr></tbody> </table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="772"> <tbody><tr><td width="10"><spacer type="block" width="10"></td><td>
</td></tr></tbody> </table>

Honolulu Blue

07-05-2004, 05:21 AM

If The Bus were to retire tomorrow, I think he would get in, as would Eddie. Neither are overwhelmingly qualified.

One way to think about the HOF debate is if you could take any running back in NFL history in his prime for your team, who would you pick?

The usual suspects would go very quickly. Then you get to relative flashes in the pan like Sayers, Sims, and Owens. Then you get to the really good guys that played in the pre-history of the NFL, whomever they are. By then you've probably picked at least 20 players. THEN you get to Bettis. He doesn't score well on this scale and that hurts him in my eyes.

Ragone

07-05-2004, 05:22 AM

In his Prime.. Thats a tough call for me.. between Bo Jackson or Walter Payton

Vegas Vic

07-05-2004, 05:42 AM

In his Prime.. Thats a tough call for me.. between Bo Jackson or Walter Payton

Gayle Sayers, hands down.

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 08:03 AM

There's no question that Bettis gets in, first ballot.

This isn't the baseball HOF, which has a tougher selection criteria. Even if it was, the (likely) 5th leading rusher of all time would make him qualified without a doubt.

Bettis is uniquely qualified - no RB who's his size has come close to having the same number of yards. He's been a bruiser for many years.

Year Tm Gm GS Att Yds Avg Lg Td
1993 STL 16 12 294 1429 4.9 71 7
1994 STL 16 16 319 1025 3.2 19 3
1995 STL 15 13 183 637 3.5 41 3
1996 PIT 16 12 320 1431 4.5 50 11
1997 PIT 15 15 375 1665 4.4 34 7
1998 PIT 15 15 316 1185 3.8 42 3
1999 PIT 16 16 299 1091 3.6 35 7
2000 PIT 16 16 355 1341 3.8 30 8
2001 PIT 11 11 225 1072 4.8 48 4
2002 PIT 13 11 187 666 3.6 41 9
2003 PIT 16 10 246 811 3.3 21 7

Totals: 3119 att, 12,353 yards (4.0 avg), 69 tds.
5-time Pro-Bowl selection.

If that doesn't qualify, I don't know what does.

MrIllini

07-05-2004, 08:09 AM

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 08:25 AM

just because he's the biggest fat bitch that gained big yardage doesn't make him "uniquely qualified" IMO

just reading the thread title kinda made me giggle, which is my first criteria...if the thought of a player going into the hall doesn't make sense, no stats (no matter how poorly they back him up) are going to change my mind

Interesting post. You've made no attempt to show why he's unqualified nor why the stats don't back up the claim that he's HOF worthy.

So put up or shut up.

Senator

07-05-2004, 08:36 AM

Gayle Sayers, hands down.

yep

MrIllini

07-05-2004, 08:46 AM

Interesting post. You've made no attempt to show why he's unqualified nor why the stats don't back up the claim that he's HOF worthy.

So put up or shut up.

how about 11 years in the league that he's not even sniffed being the top back in his conference, much less the league?

he hasn't had a good year since 97

he has struggled to average 4 yards a carry for his career

and, like I said...when I think Jerome Bettis, HoF is one of the last things that comes to my mind

MikeVic

07-05-2004, 11:16 AM

I don't think it's stats alone that should get him in. Like someone already said, for him to be in the league so long, and if he finishes top 5 in rushing, then he deserves to be in because of his style. I don't know if he's a first ballot guy, but he'll get in eventually...

SteelerFan448

07-05-2004, 11:28 AM

2000 wasn't a good year? Ok...

Also, in 2001 he was leading the league in rushing, then he had a groin injury. Bettis probably would have had 1400+ yards that year if not for the injury. Since that he has slowed up a bit.

Glengoyne

07-05-2004, 11:46 AM

I actually didn't realize he was going to pass Dorsett this season to become 5th on the all time list. I sort of agree with MrIllini in that when I read the thread title my thought was "Well he has a shot, I guess". I like Bettis, but I have never really considered him as an elite back. I think he is a tier lower than the Emmitt Smiths and Marshall Faulks of the league. I consider him to be a very good second tier back, and that should be enough to get him in. I don't think he is first ballot material, then again "first ballot" in football doesn't mean the same as it does in baseball.

I honestly think that Eddie George should have to buy a ticket to get in the hall of fame.

MrIllini

07-05-2004, 11:54 AM

question for the group...if George gets inducted, will he make it through the ceremony without getting hurt?

Bee

07-05-2004, 12:07 PM

I think Bettis is in, but I'm not sure he will be a first ballot HOFer.

While I agree he probably wasn't the best RB in the league in any single season, there were quite a few seasons when he was in the top tier of RBs. I think longevity of being "one of the best" trumps dominating for a single season when talking about HOF qualifications.

George still needs a couple productive seasons to make it IMO.

korme

07-05-2004, 12:25 PM

Eddie George in the HOF? Please.

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 12:26 PM

how about 11 years in the league that he's not even sniffed being the top back in his conference, much less the league?

he hasn't had a good year since 97

he has struggled to average 4 yards a carry for his career

and, like I said...when I think Jerome Bettis, HoF is one of the last things that comes to my mind

Plu-heez. Do you even watch football? Or do you just have a grudge because he beat the shit out of your team for many years (whatever team that may be).

1. In the period of 1994-1998, there's only 2 other backs who could be even considered in Bettis' class in the AFC - Marshall Faulk and Terrell Davis. To say that he's not "even sniffed" at being the top back is absurd. In the NFC, only Smith and Sanders would be considered in the same class (or above).

2. He hasn't had a good year since 1997? I guess the 1,000 yard rushing seasons in 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001 didn't happen?

3. True, his YPC is only 4.0. But the system he's played under has a large part to do with that. There are very few backs in history that could make their own yards - Sanders, Brown, Payton and Sayers are the only ones that come to mind - without a decent passing game.

Hell, to defend the Steelers in the 90s, the tactic was always to stack the line of scrimmage with 8 or 9 guys in the box. Look that their QBs - O'Donnell? Stewart? Kent Graham? Tomzcak? Who was going to throw the ball? And to who? Cortney Hawkins? Charles Johnson? Yancy Thigpen? Face it, the offenses of the Steelers in the 90s were horribly one-dimensional.

And even though defenses in the 90s knew that the offense was going to be Bettis Left, Bettis Right, and Bettis up the middle, he still ran over and around them. He carried that entire offense for a number of years with no help whatsoever. This is a guy who was considered for a number of years one of the top backs in the league. One every defense hated to face because they'd get banged up trying to tackle him.

And now, ultimately, the numbers don't lie. Bettis is about to be the 5th leading rusher of all time. A guy who finished in the top 10 in the NFL in rushing 5 times. A guy who's 8 1,000 yard seasons. A guy who is #3 in all-time rushes. 54 career 100 yard games (top 10 on that list too). Do a little research and you'll find that Bettis is, without a doubt, first-ballot HOF worthy. Anything less is an injustice and an insult.

MrIllini

07-05-2004, 01:11 PM

Plu-heez. Do you even watch football? Or do you just have a grudge because he beat the shit out of your team for many years (whatever team that may be).

great start

1. In the period of 1994-1998, there's only 2 other backs who could be even considered in Bettis' class in the AFC - Marshall Faulk and Terrell Davis. To say that he's not "even sniffed" at being the top back is absurd. In the NFC, only Smith and Sanders would be considered in the same class (or above).

going by that particular body of work...Bettis was in the top three in rushing twice. 2 out of those 5 years, he wasn't even in the top ten

given that Davis was arguably far superior in the two years bettis was top three (yards, ypc, TD), I'd say it's a fair argument

2. He hasn't had a good year since 1997? I guess the 1,000 yard rushing seasons in 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001 didn't happen?

you said yourself that he was their only offense...1000 yards just doesn't impress me like it used to, especially when you're getting 3-and-a-half at a clip...01 would've been impressive if he'd been able to finish it, not his fault he got hurt

3. True, his YPC is only 4.0. But the system he's played under has a large part to do with that. There are very few backs in history that could make their own yards - Sanders, Brown, Payton and Sayers are the only ones that come to mind - without a decent passing game.

Hell, to defend the Steelers in the 90s, the tactic was always to stack the line of scrimmage with 8 or 9 guys in the box. Look that their QBs - O'Donnell? Stewart? Kent Graham? Tomzcak? Who was going to throw the ball? And to who? Cortney Hawkins? Charles Johnson? Yancy Thigpen? Face it, the offenses of the Steelers in the 90s were horribly one-dimensional.

And even though defenses in the 90s knew that the offense was going to be Bettis Left, Bettis Right, and Bettis up the middle, he still ran over and around them. He carried that entire offense for a number of years with no help whatsoever. This is a guy who was considered for a number of years one of the top backs in the league. One every defense hated to face because they'd get banged up trying to tackle him.

which is it? did he suffer because of the system, or did the defenses suffer because he ran over them?

And now, ultimately, the numbers don't lie. Bettis is about to be the 5th leading rusher of all time. A guy who finished in the top 10 in the NFL in rushing 5 times. A guy who's 8 1,000 yard seasons. A guy who is #3 in all-time rushes. 54 career 100 yard games (top 10 on that list too). Do a little research and you'll find that Bettis is, without a doubt, first-ballot HOF worthy. Anything less is an injustice and an insult.

does that make Emmitt a better back than Payton or Sanders because he didn't know when to give up and call it quits? I'll give Bettis longevity, because he's certainly had that compared to a lot of backs and typical RB shelf-life, without a doubt. hell, ricky watters has 7 1000 yard seasons and ranks favorably on the all-time list...is he a HoFer too?

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 01:56 PM

Illini, when you actually have any evidence to back up your claim that Bettis is somehow not HOF worthy, please feel free to do so. Thus far, you've used either poor comparisons or outright mistruths ("3-and-a-half at a clip"). And since longevity with a RB is so uncommon, then you can't begrudge his statistics.

Or is it better to have 3 outstanding seasons (Terrell Davis) than 8 very good ones (Jerome Bettis)?

Oh, and since you brought up Ricky Watters...

10,643 yards rushing. 4,248 yards receiving on 467 catches. 91 career TDs. 5 time Pro-Bowl selection.

Career rankings:
Rushes: #13 All-time
Rushing yards: #15 All-time
Rushing TDs: #12 All-time
Yards from scrimmage: #11 All-time
Rush/Receive TDs: #17 All-time

Yea, I'd say being in the top 20 of no less than 5 different ALL TIME rankings should merit some consideration for the HOF.

MrIllini

07-05-2004, 02:12 PM

hasn't done much for this guy (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/AndeOt00.htm)

ricky's got him on total yards and td's but not by much (as rankings go)

MrIllini

07-05-2004, 02:14 PM

dola

to clarify, I'm not necessarily arguing that he won't get in, because based upon those already enshrined, he fits the bill

i'm just saying that in my mind, I don't necessarily see him being all-world as some others here

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 02:42 PM

hasn't done much for this guy (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/AndeOt00.htm)

ricky's got him on total yards and td's but not by much (as rankings go)

I think the thing that's killing Ottis Anderson is he was only a 2-time Pro Bowl selection. Too bad, I liked Ottis. But Ricky was a far better player.

dola

to clarify, I'm not necessarily arguing that he won't get in, because based upon those already enshrined, he fits the bill

i'm just saying that in my mind, I don't necessarily see him being all-world as some others here)

Now here, I'd agree with you. Bettis, in my mind, is not one of the truly all time great RBs.

In no particular order, I can think of others I'd rather have: Smith, Sayers, Sanders, Brown, Payton, Dickerson and OJ Simpson.

To me, he belongs in the 2nd group of RBs: Dorsett, Campbell, Franco Harris, Marcus Allen, Csonka and Riggins. Now who belongs in what group can be debated all day long, but this 2nd group to me just didn't quite reach (or maintain for long enough) the "elite" groups level of excellence - though Campbell comes closest to breaking in group 1 if he was healthy just a little longer.

But he is undoubtedly HoF worthy.

The big discussion will be Eddie George and Curtis Martin.

Eddie George:

10,009 rushing yards. 4 time Pro-Bowl selection. 74 career TDs. Played in every game from 1996-2003. Top 7 in rushing yards 5 times. That 3.7 YPC is killing me, though. At this point, I wouldn't vote him in.

Curtis Martin:

11,669 rushing yards. Also a 4 time Pro-Bowl selection. 81 career TDs. Top 3 in rushing 3 times, but top 7 only those same 3 times. I'd vote him in though for this statistic alone: nine straight 1,000 yard seasons. That's good enough for me.

The_herd

07-05-2004, 02:46 PM

The big discussion will be Eddie George and Curtis Martin.

Eddie George:

10,009 rushing yards. 4 time Pro-Bowl selection. 74 career TDs. Played in every game from 1996-2003. Top 7 in rushing yards 5 times. That 3.7 YPC is killing me, though. At this point, I wouldn't vote him in.

Curtis Martin:

11,669 rushing yards. Also a 4 time Pro-Bowl selection. 81 career TDs. Top 3 in rushing 3 times, but top 7 only those same 3 times. I'd vote him in though for this statistic alone: nine straight 1,000 yard seasons. That's good enough for me.

Eddie George just isn't a HOF player in my mind. None of his stats really jump out at me and think, "maybe he should be in".

Martin is probably a safe bet right now to get in. Another 1,000 yard season and he's a no-brainer.

Swaggs

07-05-2004, 02:48 PM

What about Herschel Walker? Any chance he will get in?

The_herd

07-05-2004, 02:59 PM

What about Herschel Walker? Any chance he will get in?

I think Walker, along with Warren Moon, will test whether or not it actually is the "Pro Football HOF" and not the "NFL HOF".

Walkers NFL stats aren't dazzling, over 8,000 rushing yards, almost 5,000 receiving yards, 82 TD's.

However, if you factor in the USFL days his numbers start to jump out at you. He finished with over 25,000 total yards. But even if you take out the 7,000 and change he gained in the USFL, he still finishes 4th all time in total yards, with Payton, Rice, and Barry ahead of him.

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 03:11 PM

Warren Moon should be a fun debate.

The game changed so much when he compiled his gaudy statistics. Especially since he got to play many years in a run-and-shoot offense. How inflated are his numbers?

With all that said, his numbers are so staggering I don't think there's much question that he's in on his NFL statistics.

3,988 completions
6,823 attempts
58.4 comp %
49,325 yards
291 Tds / 233 Ints

9 time Pro Bowl selection. Nine times? He's in.

Walker is a different case altogether. I won't count USFL stats. It was a decent league, but like the WFL or CFL, it's not the NFL. Sorry, those stats don't count.

13 NFL Seasons
1,954 rushing attempts
8,225 rushing yards
4.2 YPC
82 total Tds
512 receptions
4,859 receiving yards

Not bad, but not necessarily HoF worthy. So let's look deeper - and here's where Hershel falls short. Top 5 in rushing yards - once. Not in the top 20 in any category - rushing, tds, total yards...nothing. The final nail in the coffin? Herschel Walker only went to 2 Pro Bowls - out of 13 NFL years. Sorry Herschel - you have to pay admission to get into Canton just like everyone else.

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 03:24 PM

Let me throw out a different debate?

Michael Irvin, Dallas.

Statistics? Decent, but not great.

12 seasons
750 receptions
11,904 receiving yards
65 TDs
Pro Bowls - 5
Top 5 in receptions - 3 times
Top 5 in receiving yards - 4 times

Receptions: #13(tie) all time
Receiving yards: #11 all time
Receiving TDs: #34 (tie) all time

Again, not bad...but very soon this won't be considered great. He played his entire career in the modern era, so he won't get some of the special consideration that Swann and Stallworth got (they played in a different era).

His Postseason statistics are very good - 87 catches, 1,314 yards and 8 tds.

Close, but here lies the rub.

Andre Rison:

13 seasons
743 receptions
10,205 receiving yards
84 tds
Pro Bowls - 5
Top 5 in receptions - 4 times
Top 5 in receiving yards - 3 times

Receptions: #15 All time
Receiving yards: #18 all time
Receiving TDs: #10 (tie) all time

These guys are just about equal across the board. You probably can't find two more closely matched (statistically) athletes in the HoF (or being considered for the HoF).

You can't hold Rison's lack of postseason experience (29 catches, 415 yards, 3 tds) against him because he played in only 8 postseason games (vs. Irvin's 16). How is that his fault? Because he was on crappy teams? It's clearly not.

And finally, here's the problem: I don't think that Andre Rison is a HoFer. I can't ever remember anyone being too afraid of Rison. And both guys were crappy people outside the game (which has some small consideration). So if Rison can't make the HoF, then Irvin doesn't belong either.

The_herd

07-05-2004, 03:29 PM

You can also point out the fact that Rison's numbers were inflated by the Run and Shoot while he was in Atlanta (coincidentally, his best years).

I really like Irvin. I just can't call him a HOFer. He was a really good receiver, but not a Hall worthy one IMO. All his number are good, but not great, including the 5 pro bowls. Not good enough for me.

MrIllini

07-05-2004, 03:35 PM

yeah, but which one got arrested more times?

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 03:39 PM

yeah, but which one got arrested more times?

Good question. What's the over/under on that?

MrIllini

07-05-2004, 03:56 PM

20

and I'd still take the over

Glengoyne

07-05-2004, 04:31 PM

... In no particular order, I can think of others I'd rather have: Smith, Sayers, Sanders, Brown, Payton, Dickerson and OJ Simpson.

To me, he belongs in the 2nd group of RBs: Dorsett, Campbell, Franco Harris, Marcus Allen, Csonka and Riggins. Now who belongs in what group can be debated all day long, but this 2nd group to me just didn't quite reach (or maintain for long enough) the "elite" groups level of excellence - though Campbell comes closest to breaking in group 1 if he was healthy just a little longer.
...

I can't believe you'd put Marcus Allen in the group with those other guys. In my mind Allen is easilly one of the best to ever play the game.

Oh and with regard to the other players mentioned. Rison, Irvin, and Moon. Moon and Irvin are shoo-ins. Rison, who I think is one of the most talented receivers to ever play the game, may not make it in. I think I'd be inclined to vote for him though.

Oh and Hershel Walker, I actually thought he was already in. He is certainly deserving.

nfg22

07-05-2004, 04:42 PM

Rison wasnt that great....of his time he just doesnt strike me as great...I mean when compared with Rice, and Carter, and even Irvin he never was the elite....Rice was easily the best, but Carter had hands like no other and Irvin was pretty good of course with that line and Emmit Smith the passing game was bound to be let off a little....Oh yah Aikman wasnt a bad Qb either.

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 04:46 PM

I can't believe you'd put Marcus Allen in the group with those other guys. In my mind Allen is easilly one of the best to ever play the game.

Oh and with regard to the other players mentioned. Rison, Irvin, and Moon. Moon and Irvin are shoo-ins. Rison, who I think is one of the most talented receivers to ever play the game, may not make it in. I think I'd be inclined to vote for him though.

Oh and Hershel Walker, I actually thought he was already in. He is certainly deserving.

I certainly loved Allen, but I don't think you can put Marcus in the group with Payton, Brown, etc. His overall yards and yards per carry fall short. Allen's greatest claim to fame is he had 5,000 yards receiving to go along with 12,000 rushing yards and his 144 TDs. Great stats, but I can't see anyone passing up any of the other guys I mentioned to get Allen. Really - he had only THREE 1,000 yard rushing years.

As for Walker, Rison, Irvin and Moon...is there anyone who won't make your HoF? :) Seriously, all are good players, but I think only Moon should get in. I just don't see either the stats nor the prestige on Irvin or Rison - in fact, the stats work against them. But I think they'll let Irvin in as well. I wouldn't vote for him though. He's a borderline case, but for me, character counts and Irvin doesn't have any.

Walker's in the College Hall of Fame. Does that count?

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 05:00 PM

My take on WRs and RBs is anywhere between 5-7 should get in from any single era. That sort of leaves stats behind and focuses on the era.

RBs of the 90s...

1.Smith
2. Sanders
3. Faulk
4. Marcus Allen
5. Thurman Thomas
6. Jerome Bettis

Outside shot: Ricky Waters, Brian Mitchell (as a all-around return man), Curtis Martin, Eddie George. Sorry, Terrell Davis doesn't make it. Injuries cut him down.

WRs of the 90s

Jerry Rice
Tim Brown
Marvin Harrison
Chris Carter
Irving Fryar (851 catches, 12,785 yards)
Andre Reed (951 catches, 13,198 yards)

Outside shot: So we're looking at 6 guys before we get to either Michael Irvin or Andre Rison.

The guy I'd like to see would be Sterling Sharpe. He only played 7 seasons before he was cut down due to injuries, but he had 7 incredible seasons.

595 catches, 8,134 yards and 65 TDs. #1 in receptions 3 times, top 5 in receiving yards 4 times and also top 5 in receiving TDs 4 times. 5 time Pro Bowl selection. To me, Irvin may have more longevity, but Sharpe was by far a better receiver.

MrIllini

07-05-2004, 05:01 PM

harrison didn't have his first really big year until 99, you can probably push him to the 00s class :)

nfg22

07-05-2004, 05:06 PM

Carter is number two on that list hands down...

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 05:12 PM

Carter is number two on that list hands down...

The list was in no particular order. Neither were the RBs, though I'd probably switch Smith and Sanders and leave the rest of it alone.

Glengoyne

07-05-2004, 05:36 PM

judicial clerk

07-05-2004, 05:47 PM

Bettis is probably in. No one is mentioning that Bettis' teams were winners. No superbowl trophy's, but I bet his teams have one of the best combined winning percentages during the time bettis has played. Also, i like Bettis, although i don't follow him closely. is he the good character guy that I think he is?

BTW, does anybody remember the shot Bettis took in the Sugar? bowl from that stud safety from Texas A & M? I can't believe that guy busted, I thought he would roam the secondary for the Raiders for ten years.

Another guy to take in his prime besides Sayers and Bo is Earl Campbell. Although i don't think Earl would have made the Hall if it wasn't for tear-away jerseys and the poor safety from the rams.

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 06:01 PM

I'm no Irving Fryar fan, so cross him off and add Sharpe. Except I think Sharpe should be second to only Jerry Rice. He was that good. In fact bump Harrison up to the 2000 decade, and add Rison and Irvin. I'd be happy with that seven. I can't argue with your RB assessment, except I would absolutely vote for Terrell Davis over Bettis. He was dominant before the injury, much more dominant than Bettis has ever been.

To each his own, but...

1. Fryar deserves it before Irvin and Rison. Like them, he was a 5 time Pro Bowl selection. 851 catches, 12,785 yards and 84 TDs. It's true he was only a top 5 receiver in catches, yards and TDs once - he really didn't have the "big season". Despite that, he finished 6th all time in receptions, 8th in yards and 10th in TDs. Given that he's top 10 in all 3 categories (the Triple Crown of Receiving), he's kinda hard to exclude.

Of course, Art Monk isn't in yet either with similar stats, but Monk only make the Pro Bowl 3 times. I'd like to see both admitted before Irvin or Rison.

2. As for Davis over Bettis, I'll ask the question again. Is it better to be great for 3 seasons or very good for 8? I like Davis. But the guy only has 7,607 yards rushing. He doesn't crack the top 30 in any of the "big 3" rushing categories (yards, rushes, TDs). He's a 4-time Pro Bowler, but he just doesn't qualify.

And here's why...Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary.

In 1999, Terrell Davis goes down with his knee injury. Olandis Gary, a little known backup, steps in and rushes for 1,159 yards in only 12 games. In 2000, Gary goes down and Davis isn't healthy. So in steps Mike Anderson, another unheraled guy. So what does he do? Rushes for 1,500 yards in 14 games and 15 tds.

In 2001, Gary and Anderson split time due to injuries to both. Neither proves to be better than the other. In 2002, in steps Clinton Portis and, you guessed it, Portis ran for 1,500 yards and 15 TDs. Does this seem familar? What are the odds that 4 RBs in 5 years can step in the same system and post tremendous totals...UNLESS it's the system and not the RBs.

Now if he stayed healthy, then I'd be all for Davis in the HoF. His short career coupled with the performances of Gary, Anderson and now Portis go a long way in proving that Davis isn't worthy of being selected to the HoF because he was a product of the system. This is ok - hell, this is in some part true on every team - but this really hurts Terrell's claim that he was so superlative that he deserves to be selected IN SPITE of his stats. Three great seasons do not make a career unless you're Gayle Sayers. And Davis is no Gayle Sayers.

Alf

07-05-2004, 06:35 PM

Irvin will go in and not Rison because Irvin has several SuperBowl rings whereas Rison...

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 06:45 PM

Irvin will go in and not Rison because Irvin has several SuperBowl rings whereas Rison...

I always hated that. There's a bunch of players who should be in but don't have a ring and so won't ever get inducted.

The Vikings of the 70s really come to mind...

The_herd

07-05-2004, 06:50 PM

I always hated that. There's a bunch of players who should be in but don't have a ring and so won't ever get inducted.

The Vikings of the 70s really come to mind...

Agreed, the HOF is about individual accomplishment.

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 06:53 PM

Agreed, the HOF is about individual accomplishment.

I'm a Steelers fan and have always thought that Swann didn't deserve to get in. Stallworth was the better player. But Swann's grace and playoff stats carried the day and he got in first. Thank goodness Stallworth got in a few years later.

Swaggs

07-05-2004, 07:19 PM

Irvin will go in and not Rison because Irvin has several SuperBowl rings whereas Rison...

...wasn't Rison on the Super Bowl Packers?

Blackadar

07-05-2004, 10:02 PM

...wasn't Rison on the Super Bowl Packers?

Good point. I forgot about that - he only caught 13 passes that entire year.

cthomer5000

07-05-2004, 10:11 PM

Good point. I forgot about that - he only caught 13 passes that entire year.he joined them mid-year/late in the year. I believe he had some big moments in the playoffs though.

Although Desmond Howard was as "on fire" as any athlete I've ever seen in those playoffs. That playoff game against San Fran was unreal.

1996 playoff stats:
Year Opp Result | RSH YD TD | REC YD TD
---------------------+-----------------+-----------------
1996 sfo (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo1996.htm) W,35-14 | 0 0 0 | 2 13 1
1996 car (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car1996.htm) W,30-13 | 0 0 0 | 3 53 0
1996 nwe (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe1996.htm) W,35-21 | 0 0 0 | 2 77 1

And he caught 34 passes for Jacksonville that year before being cut and signed by the Packers.

cthomer5000

07-05-2004, 10:16 PM

Blackie

Curtis Martin = Outisde shot?

I think he definitely gets in based on consistency, although he's not first ballot material by any means.

Seasons among the league's top 10

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Rushes:</TD><TD>1995 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1995.htm)-2, 1996 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1996.htm)-7, 1998 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1998.htm)-3, 1999 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1999.htm)-2, 2000 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders2000.htm)-6, 2001 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders2001.htm)-4, 2003 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders2003.htm)-8</TD></TR><TR><TD>Rushing yards:</TD><TD>1995 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1995.htm)-3, 1996 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1996.htm)-9, 1997 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1997.htm)-8, 1998 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1998.htm)-8, 1999 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1999.htm)-2, 2001 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders2001.htm)-2</TD></TR><TR><TD>Rushing TDs:</TD><TD>1995 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1995.htm)-3, 1996 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1996.htm)-2, 1998 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1998.htm)-8t, 2000 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders2000.htm)-10t, 2001 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders2001.htm)-4t</TD></TR><TR><TD>Yards from scrimmage:</TD><TD>1995 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1995.htm)-5, 1996 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1996.htm)-8, 1997 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1997.htm)-10, 1998 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1998.htm)-6, 1999 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1999.htm)-5, 2000 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders2000.htm)-9, 2001 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders2001.htm)-4</TD></TR><TR><TD>Rush/Receive TDs:</TD><TD>1995 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1995.htm)-6, 1996 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders1996.htm)-2, 2001 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/leaders2001.htm)-10t</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Among the league's all-time top 50

<TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Rushes (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/misc/rsh.htm):</TD><TD>9</TD></TR><TR><TD>Rushing yards (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/misc/rsy.htm):</TD><TD>11</TD></TR><TR><TD>Rushing TDs (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/misc/rst.htm):</TD><TD>17t</TD></TR><TR><TD>Yards from scrimmage (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/misc/yfs.htm):</TD><TD>13</TD></TR><TR><TD>Rush/Receive TDs (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/misc/ttd.htm):</TD><TD>36t</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>