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View Full Version : WDYK--Torts, Personal Injury, and B.S. Lawsuits


albionmoonlight
07-05-2004, 01:32 PM
Every so often there is a post to this board talking about a personal injury lawsuit or a personal injury threatened verdict, or a story along the lines of “my brother’s roommate’s cousin’s co-worker’s sister slipped on a banana peel that she threw down herself and sued the Foodway for $10,000,000 and won; lawyer’s (sic) suck!” Partly out of natural defensiveness about my profession, and partly to play Devil’s advocate, I find myself generally siding with the attorneys/injured parties/legal system as a whole in these debates. In reality, though, my position is much more moderate. I thought that I would take this opportunity to revive one of Quik’s many fine traditions (the WhatDoYouKnow) and explain the problem of personal injury lawsuits in a somewhat objective matter. Very few people in the legal community contend that the system as it stands now works as well as we would like. However, as I hope to demonstrate, there are going to be problems with any system that might be able to replace it.

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As an initial matter, I would like to indicate things that I am not going to analyze. First, except when necessary, I am not going to be discussing criminal liability. If you blow up SkyDog’s car, in addition to possibly owing SkyDog some money, you may also have to have a not-so-friendly chat with your local FBI agent about why you should not be playing with car bombs. How and why we as a society have decided to punish and control certain “bad” behavior is a fascinating topic—indeed, I am pretty sure that I want to dedicate the better part of my professional life to studying it. It is, however, far beyond the scope of what I am doing here. (Of course, the line between criminal and non-criminal law is getting blurred every day. To name just two examples, states have the power to involuntarily commit people in non-criminal proceedings. In addition, it is now mandated (pursuant to the Mandatory Victims Restitution Act) that criminals convicted of a broad range of federal crimes (if I recall, crimes against property and crimes of violence) have to, in addition to being punished by society, pay restitution to their victims upon sentencing.) Additionally, I will not be discussing things like employment discrimination and its ilk, which have been outlawed by federal statutes. Those topics, while certainly involving the courts trying to protect “injured” people are not really what lawyers mean when we discuss personal injury and tort. Additionally, my discussion of those statutes would not be nearly so objective. It would be more like “Why Title VII is a failed policy and needs to be completely replaced—root and branch.”

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I. What is a tort and the three general types of tort liability

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Tort--A tort is from French for "wrong." It is generally defined as a civil (as opposed to criminal) wrong or wrongful act, whether intentional or accidental, from which injury occurs to another.

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There are three general types of tort liability, the comprehension of which becomes very important when attempting to understand the whole system.

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1.) Intentional torts—If I intentionally hurt you or damage your property (punch you in the face, steal your car, set your horse on fire, etc.), I am liable to pay you for your damages. We will not spend much time discussing these torts because there is not much to discuss. If <st1:place>Cam</st1:place> blows up Fritz’s $5,000 car, then <st1:place>Cam</st1:place> should pay Fritz $5,000. No one really argues with that.

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2.) Negligence—here is one of the biggies. If I act unreasonably and do not show you the degree of care that an ordinary man would show, and you are injured as a result of my unreasonable behavior, then I am liable to you for your injury. The textbook example of negligent behavior: I am driving along the road staring at my brand new XM radio and I forget to pay attention to traffic. Because I don’t see you stop, I end up rear ending your car and injuring you. I did not intend for you to be hurt, but I was not exercising the degree of care that an ordinary person would and as a direct result, you are injured. I am liable to you for that injury. Note well that you need both a lack of care on my part and causation of your injury. If—despite the fact that I keep my car in tip top shape—my breaks fail and I rear end you, then I am not liable to you for that injury. I did not breach my duty of care. Also, if I am driving like an unreasonable maniac but don’t hit anyone, then I am not liable to anyone for injury. You can’t sue me if you have not been damaged.

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Medical malpractice falls into this category, though it is somewhat specialized. Doctors are held to the standard of care of an ordinary physician in their position. If a doctor does not treat you with the degree of care that an ordinary doctor would and you are injured as a result, then that doctor is liable to you. If, however, the doctor did treat you with the right degree of care, but you are injured anyway (say—a disease that no test could reasonably be expected to detect), then the doctor is not liable to you.

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Also worth noting while we are defining negligence—an employer is held liable for the acts of its employees. So when Joe Blow has a sixpack before driving the UPS truck and ends up negligently causing a traffic accident, the victims do not sue Joe. They sue Big Brown. In that instance, the victim need to prove both that Joe was negligent and that he was working for UPS. (It’s outside of the scope of our discussion, but these cases become more interesting when Joe is somewhere between working and not working for UPS—such as on a personal errand in the company truck on his way to work). People always choose to sue the employer rather than the employee for deep pocket reasons. Note well that (in the above example), while Joe need to be at fault for causing the injury, UPS as a corporation does not need to be at fault in any way for hiring Joe. Vicarious liability for your employees is just one of the costs of doing business. <o:p></o:p>

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3.) Products Liability—here is the other biggie. If you put a product on the marketplace and it malfunctions and injures someone, then you are liable to them for that injury EVEN IF YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. Please note this important distinction from negligence. If John Deere sells you a lawn mower and a blade flies off and takes out your eye, they owe you money regardless of fault.

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The theory of liability for products liability is completely different than the theory for negligence. In negligence, we say that everybody owes everybody else the duty to act like a reasonable person. If I act unreasonably and injure you, we have decided that I should compensate you for that injury because the injury is—on some level—my fault. With products liability, however, we have decided that the consumers who use a product should be the ones to pay for its costs. It’s a conceptualization based, in part, on economic theory. Because stuff happens, we know that a certain number of lawn mowers will blow up and injure people—no matter how careful John Deere is. Even if .01% of the products rolling off a line are defective, that’s still 100 defective products per million sold. When those inevitable defective products cause the inevitable injury, who should be stuck with the bill? We say that the manufacturer should be stuck with the bill because then it will raise the cost of the product to compensate for that expense (incurred either directly or through its insurance premiums). The true cost, therefore, of stuff happening is borne by all of the people who purchase and use the stuff. At least—that’s the theory behind strict products liability. (Strict liability is another way of saying that fault has nothing to do with liability).

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If you understand that negligence and products liability are two different theories of liability, you are already ahead of the game in terms of the general public understanding of torts.<o:p></o:p>

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II. A quick aside—what really drives the system

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In a word: Insurance. People don’t have the kind of money that it takes to satisfy their liability generally. It is no good, as a practical matter, to have a judgment against someone if there is no money to satisfy that judgment. Most tort suits begin and end, as a practical matter, with a settlement driven, for the most part, by the limits of the liability insurance policy.

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III. This system compared to other systems

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A. What’s so wrong about sticking it to Wal-Mart?

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It may occur to you to ask—what is so wrong about the system right now. Joe Blow gets injured and either Wal-Mart or State Farm or some such faceless entity with billions of dollars picks up the tab. Even if maybe Joe does not deserve the money under the system outlined above, he’s still a guy with a broken leg and two kids to support and maybe it’s better that he have the money instead of GEICO.

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The problem with that logic is that insurance companies and large retailers did not obtain their billions of dollars by giving away money. The more claims that people make against the Wal-Marts and the State Farms of the world, the more that they will raise their rates and/or prices. Because almost everyone pays for insurance and/or purchases products, almost everyone pays for Joe Blow’s broken leg.

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B. A non fault based system?

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There is no reason that we need to have a fault-based system of negligence at all. We could have a system wherein everyone pays for his own losses, regardless of fault. If cthomer decides to negligently store his antique anvil collection on his seventh story windowsill, and one of them happens to fall and hit WSUCougar on the head as he is walking his shar-pei, we could have a system wherein WSU pays for his own injuries and has no claim at all against cthomer.

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There are a couple of potential problems with that system. First, from an economic perspective, we would not be placing the burden on the proper party. Our current system encourages the prevention of accidents/injuries by placing the burden of preventing those injuries on the parties in a position to prevent them. Using the above example, cthomer would have no reason to use any care when storing his anvil collection if he was not liable for the damage that he caused. Indeed, no one would have any incentive to modify their behavior in a way that would prevent accidents or injuries. We would still have the criminal law to deter particularly egregious behavior, but that may not lead to a reduction in simple negligent injuries. (OR, for those who like these kind of “what –if” games—it may lead to an expansion of the criminal law. Someone whose name I forget has postulated that the criminal law developed in the areas where tort law was not sufficient to control behavior. Using that logic, a world in which cthomer is not made to suffer private economic damages because of his negligent anvil storage may actually see him subject to criminal liability for “negligent endangerment” or some other such “crime” that evolves as society tries to curb accident causing behavior.)

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Also, there is no reason to think that such a system would cut down appreciable on litigation. It would just shift its focus. In a no-fault world, most people would have “personal injury” insurance to make sure that their lives were not destroyed by cthomer and his unhappy anvils. Of course, when people would be injured, they would make a claim on their insurance which would challenge the claim—leading to litigation, not between WSUCougar and cthomer, but between WSUCougar and his insurance company.

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So, in short, a no fault world would probably increase accidents without decreasing litigation.

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C. Oooh, I know. Set up a public fund.

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I’ll throw out this suggestion to give Fritz, Bucc, Jon, etc. heart attacks. Set up a public fund to pay for injured people’s injuries. After all, shit happens, and there is nothing we can do about it. It’s a problem with which society has to deal—so let society deal with it through the government.

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This idea has several flaws in it from my perspective. First, we run into the same problem of shifting the burdens into which we run in the no fault world. Why should I care if I hurt you if Uncle Sam is going to pick up the tab? Also, why should my taxes go up if you are too much of a dumbass to fill up the hole in your front yard and your neighbor is too much of a dumbass not to fall into it and break his ankle? And, of course, whatever the government does tends to come with costs inherent to the bureaucracy. I am not in favor of a government as small as some on this board, but I certainly agree that it should not be expanded into this area.

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All in all, though some have suggested wholesale changes to the way in which personal injury lawsuits are done—there are problems with any alternative. The better approach may be to try to fix aspects of the current system to try to improve what problems do exist.<o:p></o:p>

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IV Problems with our system and solutions within the system

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The main problem with the system as perceived by the public—and expressed colloquially—“people bring frivolous lawsuits and end up receiving huge jury verdicts which are out of proportion both to the injury that they received and to the fault of the company paying out the judgment. Both the frequency of lawsuits and the enormous verdicts possible in these lawsuits make it hard for companies to do business and almost certainly dampen economic progress. And its just NOT FAIR.”

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As I have been writing the above paragraphs, I have been jotting down notes to myself of what all of these little changes could be. I had hoped to present them in an organized fashion, but I think that such an attempt would require more revision than I am willing and able to do at this point. Instead, I will simply discuss various ideas as they have occurred to me and leave it to y’all to devise creative solutions that play them off each other and incorporate them into a more holistic reform approach. Or you can just ignore me. Either way is cool.

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A. The Jury

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It is widely suspected that one of the main things driving the size of verdicts in recent times is the jury. Even the non-cynics among us can appreciate that when an important decision is left in the hands of 12 people who were not able to get out of jury duty, weird things can happen. There are two “problems” with the jury system. First, juries are random. You can screen them, you can try your case in front of mock ones, you can try to get a sense of them. But, ultimately, they can do some pretty weird stuff when they get back into the jury room. That randomness scares large companies who are the ones with millions on the line in lawsuits of this type. No matter how good their case is, if it gets to the jury, they may lose. Plaintiffs attorneys can use that threat of randomness as a sword to bully defendants into paying settlements that they would not otherwise be willing to pay. This increased likelihood of achieving settlement makes it more likely that suits will be brought. If cases were tried soley by judges, there would be a lot more predictability in the system, and people may be less likely to bring weak lawsuits in the hopes of scaring a settlement from a defendant.

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Juries also tend to have sympathies that affect their decisions. They may see the plaintiff sitting in that chair and picture themselves injured. They may also think that it is pretty cool that “one of their own” is now in a position to “win the lottery” and award an enormous verdict because that is what they would want to receive. Also, there is the basic human instinct of feeling more important as a juror if you award $500,000,000 instead of $5,000,000. In other words, juries may be inclined to “side” with the plaintiff when deciding on a damage award. When you combine that with their randomness, you can see why some people say that they are the beginning and the end of the problem.

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So let’s get rid of them, right? Well, even if we wanted to, we can’t. The Seventh Amendment preserves the right of a jury trial in actions of this sort. Nothing short of a constitutional amendment will get rid of juries in civil cases. They are here to stay. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

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If you look at the Bill of Rights (and if you have not lately—WHY NOT? Lots of men have died to preserve those freedoms. Don’t dishonor their memory by taking it for granted.) you notice that most of the provisions apply to keeping the government out of our business. Sitting there, somewhat incongruously among the right to worship as you please and the right to be secure from unreasonable search and seizure by the government, is a whole amendment dedicated to the idea that you have a right to have 12 honest men sit in review of your disputes with private parties. (quick aside, you may also note that jury trials are preserved “only” when the amount in controversy is $20 or more. As wise as the founding fathers were, they did not think to tie the Constitution to inflation). Why was this such an important issue? In short, the founding fathers did not want a repeat of what happened at times in <st1:country-region><st1:place>England</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Judges tended to be (and still tend to be) from the upper classes. As such, they would identify better with upper class people and the upper class lifestyle. Also, in the much smaller world in which they lived, the judges would know almost every other person in his economic circle. The early Americans feared that when a poor man was in a lawsuit against a rich man, the poor man would not get a fair shake if his fate was left in the hands of the rich man judge. By preserving the right to a jury trial, the founding fathers hoped to protect themselves from the tyranny of unfair judges who took a dim view of the “common man.” In their own words (I am taking these quotes from the recent case of Blakley v. <st1:State><st1:place>Washington</st1:place></st1:State>): John Adams notes that “[T]he common people, should have as complete a control . . . in every judgment of a court of judicature” as in the legislature, while Thomas Jefferson stated that “Were I called upon to decide whether the people had best be omitted in the

Legislative or Judiciary department, I would say it is better to leave them out of the Legislative.”

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This mindset is not entirely out of place today. In a world in which lawsuits were in the almost complete control of trial judges, how important do you think those judges become? It all of a sudden becomes job 1 of the StateFarms of the world to make sure that their guys are on the bench. I think that we would see a lot more money thrown at judicial elections and/or appointment processes by large corporations and that the result of those elections may swing the pendulum too far the other way (i.e. people who really deserve money for their injuries not getting any). While I understand the problems with juries and realize that something should be done—I personally agree with the founding fathers that 12 honest men may be the best way to make sure that the system stays fair.

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Finally, for reasons too complex to discuss here, the Seventh Amendment “preserves” the right to a jury trial. The short of that means that if the government creates a system (i.e. worker’s comp.) that did not exist at the time of the Seventh Amendment, it does not need to provide a jury to adjudicate your rights in that system. Accordingly, you have certain quasi-public administrative agencies (worker’s comp is the biggest and most well known example) that have taken the place of traditional personal injury remedies. The driving force behind these administrative remedies is, in part, to circumvent the jury process.<o:p></o:p>

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B. Forum shopping/diversity

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A topic closely related to juries in the idea of forum shopping. Here is where I advocate for lots of reforms. State courts are divided into districts which tend to follow county lines or some other similar sized division. Plaintiffs lawyers know where to bring their suits. There are places in the country where you are much, much, much more likely to get a “sympathetic” jury than you would be elsewhere. When a plaintiffs lawyer wants to bring a suit against a corporation, she will do everything in her power to bring that suit in those particular districts. This practice distorts the jury’s role as the consciousness of the community and instead uses the jury to try to force a settlement or a large verdict from defendants. It would be like taking a “random” survey of people on this board and asking them if they enjoyed sports and computer games. There are systems in place to try to prevent this kind of “forum shopping” by plaintiffs, but I think that they should be a lot stronger. A couple of potential solutions—make the jury pools larger geographically (of course, then you have the problem of making jurors drive a long way to hear cases) or have the cases assigned “randomly” within the state court system (of course, if you live in Houston, you may not want to be forced to litigate your claims in El Paso). Something, in my opinion, must be done.

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Along these lines, here is another history lesson. There are two ways that a suit can be brought in Federal (as opposed to state) court. First, it can involve a federal law (not the case here as almost all laws of this type are state laws). Second, if the parties are citizens of different states (there are rules to determine the state of which a corporation is a “citizen”), then the case can be brought in federal court. Historically, this “diversity” law was passed because the founding fathers thought that a <st1:State><st1:place>Pennsylvania</st1:place></st1:State> guy being sued by a <st1:country-region><st1:place>Georgia</st1:place></st1:country-region> guy in <st1:country-region><st1:place>Georgia</st1:place></st1:country-region> state court may not get a fair shake and should have access to the more neutral federal forum (you have to remember that we were just a few years out of a confederation at this time). While concerns about regional prejudice have abated, diversity jurisdiction still serves an important purpose. Federal juries are drawn from larger pools than state juries. Accordingly, if a plaintiff sues you in one of these plaintiff friendly counties in state court, you—as the defendant—will want to move the case to federal court so as to get a more equitable jury.

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While diversity jurisdiction does dull the effects of forum shopping, I still find it to be a very inefficient way of solving the problem. First, federal courts are not the most efficient forum for interpreting state laws (for what I hope are obvious reasons). Second, parties know how important the forum is and will spend (read: waste) lots of time and money trying to keep certain parties in or out of a lawsuit in order to achieve (or defeat) diversity. I would prefer to get rid of diversity jurisdiction and implement reforms on the state level to prevent forum shopping.

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C. The rules of evidence

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The evidence that can and cannot be presented at trial is controlled by the federal or state rules of evidence (most state rules of evidence mirror the federal rules to a large extent). Though these rules are complicated enough to warrant their own class in law school, you can get by here with the general understanding that evidence should not be admitted if it is 1.) irrelevant to the case or 2.) likely to unfairly prejudice the jury. As should be obvious, a lot of a case can depend on what evidence is and is not admitted to the jury. Here are a couple of specific rules that tend to affect cases of this nature.

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First, parties are specifically barred from mentioning that the defendants have liability insurance to cover the injury. In other words, if you slip and fall on <st1:place>Cam</st1:place>’s lawn, and <st1:place>Cam</st1:place>’s damages will be paid by Allstate—your lawyer cannot mention to the jury that Allstate is picking up the tab instead of <st1:place>Cam</st1:place>. If the jury knows that Allstate’s deep pockets are picking up the tab, it will be less likely to make a fair decision in <st1:place>Cam</st1:place>’s favor and may be likely to find for you because “no one is really getting hurt.” This, by and large, is a good idea.

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Second, it is generally considered irrelevant (and therefore inadmissible) if the plaintiff has filed lawsuits in the past. The thinking here is that we don’t want a jury to look at past acts when deciding the merits of this case. Just because you happened to break your leg last year and sued someone does not mean that you did NOT do it this year, too. We don’t want a jury ruling against someone because it perceives him as “litigious.” This rule allows people to sue companies over and over based—in large part—on fake injuries. Because the jury does not know that they have had 10 slip and fall cases (leading to settlements) in the past, they don’t know that they are (probably) faking this suit. I would reform this rule to allow evidence of past lawsuits in certain extreme cases.

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D. Contingency Fees

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Lawyer’s who represent injured plaintiffs get paid by taking a percentage of the recovery that the plaintiff receives (Lawyers who defend the large corporations get paid hourly). This system is supposed to encourage the lawyers to only take/pursue meritorious claims and to advocate zealously for their clients because the lawyer’s remuneration is tied directly to the success of their client’s lawsuit. This system, however, works on the assumption that all the client cares about is money. Any other thing from which the client could benefit—and humans have varied and complex psychological needs—is not on their attorney’s radar.

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In addition, this system encourages lawyers to try to maximize payment/hours spent on a case. If an attorney can get you $500,000 in a quick settlement or $1,000,000 by investing 100 hours in the case, it is to his benefit to get you the money quickly so he can spend those 100 hours getting more quick settlements. In this way, the contingency system leads to a subset of plaintiffs lawyers who are in the game only for quick settlements.

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In addition because plaintiffs do not pay legal fees, defendants are much more likely to be forced into settlements by the threat of bearing large legal costs. Even if a defendant successfully “wins” a lawsuit, the money spent defending it is still a loss for defendants. In this way, there is an incentive for defendants to settle cases—even cases that they are likely to win. Of course, this means that plaintiffs are more likely to bring cases that should not be brought because they are not as likely to win.

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E. Rule 11 sanctions

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There is a procedure to sanction lawyers who act in an unprofessional manner. These are called Rule 11 Sanctions—after the Rule of Civil Procedure which authorizes a court to issue them. One solution to frivolous lawsuits would be to increase the prevalence of these sanctions given to plaintiffs lawyers who bring frivolous suits. Two things work against this potential reform.

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First, it will be difficult to strike a balance between cooling off frivolous suits and scaring lawyers from taking cases. If sanctions become too prevalent, then people who are actually injured may not be able to get representation. In addition, insurance companies may begin to focus on—not actual defense on the merits of a case—but getting a reputation as a defendant who always seeks sanctions against plaintiffs. In this manner, you will have a lot of additional litigation based on whether or not sanctions are warranted in a particular case. Any reform that increases litigation related to collateral issues will end up causing a general economic drain on the system.

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Second, the legal community is a small community. As a practical matter, it will be hard to get judges to issue sanctions against lawyers with whom they went to law school and who they see in court every week. In addition, lawyers, like doctors, like to believe that we are never wrong. A judge issuing a sanction against a lawyer has to admit, on some level, that a lawyer screwed up. That’s harder for a judge to admit than it would be for one of you to admit. Finally, if lots of lawyers are getting sanctioned, then the profession as a whole looks worse in the public eye.

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F. Get rid of vicarious employer/employee liability

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We could also get rid of the rule that an employer is vicariously liable for the torts of its employee. When Bob the UPS driver hits you, you can still sue Bob, but can’t sue UPS. This rule may cut down on litigation against deep pockets. Some (frivolous) lawsuits that are worth bringing against UPS may not be worth bringing against Bob. Therefore, without vicarious liability, there may be less litigation.

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However, I think that there is a lot of good to vicarious liability. Companies—who have the most control over the acts of the employees—are encouraged to be ubersafe. They are encouraged to be more than non-negligent. They are encouraged to prevent accidents if at all possible. In addition, UPS makes a lot of money specifically because Bob is in that truck. It seems fair on some level that UPS should pay for when stuff happens. The framework becomes sort of like the theory behind products liability.<o:p></o:p>

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G. More than $10,000

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Some reforms are simple. In <st1:State><st1:place>North Carolina</st1:place></st1:State> when you sue someone for over $10,000, you now state in the complaint only that that your damages are “over $10,000.” By making this simple change, doctors (and other defendants) have their reputation protected by not having “Dr. No sued for $25,000,000” plastered on the front page of the paper. By removing this arrow from the quiver of plaintiffs, <st1:State><st1:place>North Carolina</st1:place></st1:State> prevents extra-legal concerns from affecting the process to some small extent.

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H. Populist judges

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On the state level, lots of judges are elected. Some judges make sure that they keep getting elected by appealing to the populist sentiments of the community. These judges do whatever they can to make sure that defendants who end up in their court pay huge money judgments to plaintiffs in the community. In this manner, election is reassured. There are also judges who win elections by running ads funded by deep pocketed defendants. They do their best to make sure that defendants who end up in their court do not pay large money judgments. In this manner, election is reassured. There are, to keep it short, problems with elected judges.

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I. Emotional distress and Pain & Suffering

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Those of you who have managed to read this far have probably been waiting for this one. What the hell is emotional distress? Why do people get to receive damages for such nebulous concepts? Ohhh. I’m sad that you hit me with your car; give me money?

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One thing that people may not realize is that it is actually quite hard to receive damages for emotional distress. The courts have recognized for a long time that these damages are easy to fake, and have established systems to try to ensure (to the extent possible) that only valid claims for emotional distress are heard.

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One has to remember that—even though they seem weak and nebulous—these are real damages that people do sometimes suffer. Even though pain and suffering and emotional distress are hard to quantify, they do exist. In most states, you need to have some physical injury occur to be able to recover for emotional distress. The theory there is that the few valid cases of emotional distress that fall through the cracks are worth a system that manages to weed a lot of the invalid cases out.

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Pain and suffering is not even an independent claim on its own. It is simply damages for which one is able to recover once someone is found liable to someone else for a substantive tort.

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That said—it would be helpful—IMHO—to instruct juries on the ball park of what kind of damages tend to be given for certain cases. We hesitate to give any “advice” to the jury that would tend to overly sway its opinion. However, to me, there is nothing wrong with assuming that 12 random people really don’t know how much a lifetime of migraine headaches are worth. I would do more to allow juries to see what we consider to be “reasonable” amounts for various types of damages.

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J. Straight Damage Caps

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Some states have tried to take the simple approach and simply have an absolute cap for damages. No jury award can be for more than $X. Bad idea. These do not stop plaintiff’s lawyers from bring small frivolous claims and getting settlements. These do, however, stop the few people who legitimately suffer massive injuries from actually getting full compensation. Also, they allow corporations to simply budget for injuring people—meaning that they will be able to decide how many people to injure (on average) by a certain activity. If the activity is more profitable than the damages that will be paid out—there is no economic reason not to engage in the activity. Indeed, to value the lives and happiness of others over profits breaches the fiduciary duty to the shareholders.

<o:p> </o:p>

K. Punitive Damages

<o:p> </o:p>

If you can prove that the damage against you was caused by behavior that was part of a larger plan by the defendant, you can generally hit them with punitives (for example—if your breaks went out because of Ford’s policy to make cheap breaks on the theory that they might not get caught). These damages exist for several reasons. First, they encourage people to bring suits that they may not otherwise bring (because the damage to any one person is too low to incentivise a suit) with the hope of recovering more damages. Second, they work on the theory that not everyone injured is going to bring suit. These damages, then, reflect those not-brought suits and better represent the true cost of the behavior. Third, they are quasi-criminal in that they “punish” the defendant for behavior more blameworthy than negligence.

<o:p> </o:p>

Some people do not like punitives because they say that they encourage frivolous lawsuits. They also say that they encourage juries to go crazy and award jillion dollar awards. In addition, if Ford was bad to tens of thousands of people, why should I get all of that damages personally just because I am the one who brought suit? Some have advocated getting rid of punitives (bad idea because of all of the good they do as explained above). Some have said that we should keep them, but have the extra damages go into a state fund to be used for the public good (or to help treat the type of injury caused by the defendants). The problem with that system is that the state should not be allowed to benefit from the result of a proceeding controlled (by and large) by the state and its employees. In addition, what is the incentive of the plaintiff to bring the suit if the plaintiff is just going to get his little $ and the big $$$ will go into a fund that he never sees?

<o:p> </o:p>

The Supreme Court recently has struck down large punitive damage awards as a violation of the Due Process clause (the true intellectual conservatives don’t like this because it expands the constitution in a way the framers never intended. The political conservatives love it because it helps big businesses. The issue is a good litmus test for your “conservative” friends). Stay tuned for further developments.

<o:p> </o:p>

L. The Media

<o:p> </o:p>

Do you know how much money people have gotten from fast food restaurants because it made them fat? None. Zero. Zilch. It’s a dumbass claim and has been thrown out of court everytime that it has been brought. The system works and can catch bullshit. You’d never know that to hear the media talk. They love to publicize it everytime a BullShit claim is brought. That’s like making a news story every time someone walks in a doctor’s office and claims to have a strange disease. If I walk into my Dr.s and claim to have Ebola, I doubt that FoxNews will run a headline stating that Ebola is in <st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region>. However, if I bring a b.s. suit, you can bet that they will post it as if I had already gotten paid (and all the internet guys can get their Stella awards ready).

<o:p> </o:p>

Things are not as bad as they would have you believe. The system works and can catch bullshit. Some bad things slip through the cracks, but let’s just work on changing the bathwater, not on tossing the baby.

<o:p> </o:p>

V. Conclusion

<o:p> </o:p>

Jeeze that was freaking long. Oh, well. Hope it serves some purpose

MrIllini
07-05-2004, 01:43 PM
goodness gracious

NoMyths
07-05-2004, 01:57 PM
Outstanding post, AM.

Eilim
07-05-2004, 02:06 PM
Nothing to add, but just wanted to say thank you for a very good read.

Sadly, I am one of those who tends to crack lawyer jokes any chance I get, when my anger should be more placed on the system (and a somewhat seperate system at that as my first 25 years of life were spent a great deal in our </sarcasm> fine </sarcasm off> criminal justice system.)

Having said that, I enjoy any good read that expands my knowledge of the system and helps me get a better grasp of how it works and how it could perhaps work better.

Vince
07-05-2004, 03:34 PM
Excellent read, thanks albion.

Bubba Wheels
07-05-2004, 07:28 PM
I like my torts with strawberrys and whip cream. Yum!

albionmoonlight
07-06-2004, 09:24 AM
Wow--glad to see some people took the time to read this. I was feeling bad last night that I did not take the time to edit it to a more digestable length.

Vince
07-06-2004, 09:35 AM
To be honest, I can't believe I got through it...law isn't exactly my cup of tea, and that is a ton to digest at once. But it was a great read, and very enlightening. We had an issue at the pizza place I worked at for a few years here in the college town...it seems that the employees were 'accidentally' pouring the incorrect beer into pitchers, and then requisitioning said incorrect beer into the Walk-In Refrigerator. Over the course of the shift, the beer would 'inexplicably' disappear from the pitcher. Management came down hard on the Shift Managers for allowing this to happen, and there was some confusion as to what was going on and how liability would be handed out if something bad actually happened. (As an aside, no deliver drivers ever did this...just the inhouse workers. Our people had at least a semblance of intelligence).

Ksyrup
07-06-2004, 09:42 AM
Well done, prof.

Barkeep49
07-06-2004, 09:50 AM
This was indeed an excellent article and thank you for putting so much time into something like this. I hope it encourages others to do the same.

QuikSand
07-06-2004, 10:25 AM
Really nicely done.

One issue in there that is fairly easy to isolate, and some people claim would stop the so-called "frivolous" suits is the concept of requiring the loser in any proceeding to pay the court and trial costs. Under a "loser pays" situation, anyone filing a frivolous claim would bear the possibility of paying the costs for the whole thing, including the defense's costs.

You mention this above, and also mention the notion that this might have a "chilling" effect on people with legitimate claims, who may have a real case to be made, but lack the ability to take on the big bad deep pockets. A viable argument - one that currently keeps htis on the back burner.

That might be a worthwhile single straw from this that we could discuss further here...

Airhog
07-06-2004, 10:42 AM
QS: what if the jury had to make the determination that the lawsuit was frivolous before the loser would be forced to pay. I dont think that all lawsuits that are lost by the plantiff are frivolous. Or maybe this would be a determination to be made that should be left in the hands of a judge.

John Galt
07-06-2004, 10:45 AM
Good post.

It really sets the bar higher for "small novel mode."

John Galt
07-06-2004, 10:48 AM
QS: what if the jury had to make the determination that the lawsuit was frivolous before the loser would be forced to pay. I dont think that all lawsuits that are lost by the plantiff are frivolous. Or maybe this would be a determination to be made that should be left in the hands of a judge.

As I generally think juries do the strangest things (especially in tort cases), I'd be disinclined to give them any more fact finding. I also think everyone deserves there "day in court" and many legitimate lawsuits would be deterred because the risk of complete insolvency (which would always be the result of suing a corporation) and bankruptcy for the plaintiff is too much to bear.

sterlingice
07-07-2004, 02:43 PM
Excellent post! I've debated more than a few of these points with a friend of mine who is in law school but this is a great primer to fill in the gaps. Thanks a ton for taking all the time to post this. I may disagree with quite a few of the points, but I loved reading all of it- that's probably as high of praise as I can give:)

SI

judicial clerk
07-07-2004, 04:48 PM
Random thoughts:

1. products liability claims. These are strict liability claims, but you typically must prove that the product was designed or manufactired defectively. No smart attorney would touch one of these cases where "the defendant did nothing wrong."

2. Jury verdicts. Outrages jury verdicts are a bit of a myth, at least where I come from. for example, in Multnomah County, Oregon, claims for damages of $50,000.00 or less must go through arbitration. The arbitration process is like having a judge decide the entire case (facts and law). if either party does not like the arbitrators decision, they may have a subsequent jury trial. Sometimes plaintiffs decide to have a subsequent jury trial, sometimes defendants do. This creates a situation where an arbitrator (or judge if you will) independantly decide the exact same case. on average, the arbitrator award more money in damages than the juries. This is according to the last report I saw a couple of years ago. What i am getting at is that on average, juries actually are pretty stingy and are not looking to make anyones pay day.

Insurance providers are the savviest of clients. I think they have really done a good job of marketing to the american public that tort claims are out of control. Dont' forget that insurance companies are in it for the profit. Not only do they fight against people who are suing their insureds, but they are fighting with their own customers (when the customer tries to collect agaionst their uninsured motorist coverage.) I don't have anything against insurance companies doing what they can to maximize profits, but I think they are a fine gatekeeper to stop frivolous lawsuits without extra legal protections, like artificial limits on damages

loser pays is one way to limit frivilous lawsuits. Maybe requiring parties to post a bond when they file or answer a suit would work. Then we know the loser will pay and the winner will not. Of course, those bonds aint free.

Whar
07-07-2004, 05:11 PM
My understanding of punitive damages is they exist to punish the 'wrong-doer' for his actions. Why not remove the punitive award from going to the plaintiff to going to a state of federal government fund. Actual damages like medical bills and costs, lost wages would still go to the plaintiff but you would remove the 'lottery win' for being the one to sue a big company when they are screwing up.

albionmoonlight
07-07-2004, 06:04 PM
judicial clerk is right that there must be some defect in the product for a products liability claim. In that sense "do nothing wrong" can be read inaccurately. It means that no matter how safe you were in making your product--it is still coming out of your pocketbook when it blows up (assuming (which I did not make clear enough up top) that it blew up because of an inherent defect--not because of a 3rd party coming along and screwing with it).

Whar--several people have suggested that punitive damage awards go to state funds. You articulated the best reasoning for that suggestion. There are two problems with that approach that would need to be resolved.

1.) Would the attorney who took the case get a percentage of the punitive damages? If not, he has no incentive to go for them at trial, meaning that they will be applied less and that companies will be punished less than they should. If so, then his interests begin to diverge from his client because he may spend his time and attention on pumping up the punitive damages and be less concerned about maximizing the proof of the actual damages that his client suffers. A compromise will have to be reached here.

2.) It can be a dangerous game when states start to get dependent on money from fines and the like. For example, every state that has agreed to take tobacco settlement money (and almost instantly floated bonds based on those settlements) now has a financial interest in keeping tobacco companies solvent. In the case of punitives, we don't want states to start having incentives either to keep certain companies solvent because the state is depending on them for punitive damage awards OR to change the rules to make sure that compaines keep getting hit with punitives. At its worst, such a rule would devolve into state mandated "public welfare insurance" paid by the companies.

Again, your suggestion is a good one and should not be dismissed out of hand. But these are the two main objections that I hear every time the issue is discussed.

Franklinnoble
07-07-2004, 06:44 PM
That post is too long. Can someone give me a few quick bullet points about what it says?

thealmighty
07-07-2004, 06:44 PM
This was very enlightening and, believe it or not, entertaining. As a math teacher who has studied and taught statistics before, I particularly like part J, having studied/read cases where large companies have, in fact, decided that the damages possible were cheaper than the profit margin gained.

Well done.

judicial clerk
07-07-2004, 06:45 PM
The Oregon punitive damages statute is something like, 2/3 of any punitive damages award goes to some state fund, and the attorney cannot receive more than 25% of the punitive damages award. (Normally attorneys get 30% to 45% of any damages award if a case goes to trial)

Albion, what would you think of an alternative suystem (ie workers comp) for med mal cases or even products liability. I am not familiar with these systems but my buddy from law school does exclusively workers comp defense and he says it is too easy for people to get compensation for made up injuries. Large verdicts seem to be avoided, however.

My favorite fix might be mandatory, non-binding arbitration for all claims with the option to have a subsequent jury trial. If the party who demands the subsequent jury trial does not do better than he or she did in arbitration, they pay costs including atty fees for trial (not arb.)

both sides get a relatively inexpensive review of the case from an unbiased legal professional and the right to a jury trial is still preserved, but with a penalty if you are too greedy and na out if you think the arbitrator screwed the pooch. Defendants could stay in the fight longer because of the reduced cost of arbitration.

What I hate are things like the bullshit rider originally inserted into the homeland Security Act stating that people couldn't sue for damages resulting from use of some dangerous autism treatment.

Jon
07-07-2004, 07:54 PM
It was a very good read. I would just like to add my thoughts:

(1) A Workers Comp type system would lead to even greater abuse. Under workers comp, the presumption is that the person is injured or something happened. It's simply too easy to collect and make up claims.

(2) I think a substantial part of the problem is the insurance companies, who have far greater control than it appears, IMO. They settle cases that are frivulous (ie, nuisance settlements--- a couple of grand to go away), which leads to more people filing ridiculous claims. If they litigated more, it might deter stupid lawsuits.

(3) That having been said, I agree with the idea that people should have their day in court. Procedural rules exist to keep the truly absurd cases out of court. In law school, I tutored Civil Procedure. I always pointed out that they are the most substantive law out there: the rules are designed as barriers to the courtroom. If used properly, I think they could keep absurd cases out.

albionmoonlight
07-08-2004, 09:18 AM
My favorite fix might be mandatory, non-binding arbitration for all claims with the option to have a subsequent jury trial. If the party who demands the subsequent jury trial does not do better than he or she did in arbitration, they pay costs including atty fees for trial (not arb.)

both sides get a relatively inexpensive review of the case from an unbiased legal professional and the right to a jury trial is still preserved, but with a penalty if you are too greedy and na out if you think the arbitrator screwed the pooch. Defendants could stay in the fight longer because of the reduced cost of arbitration.

What I hate are things like the bullshit rider originally inserted into the homeland Security Act stating that people couldn't sue for damages resulting from use of some dangerous autism treatment.
I agree about bullshit riders. Part of why the media drum up stories of BS lawsuits is so that people accept laws that allow large corps to operate with impunity.

I like your solution. No 7th Amendment problem and it does provide some sort of a bullshit screen. Of course, one would have to watch the selection of arbitrators very closely--and we would have to make sure it does not delay the system too much, but personally your idea interests me.

Mr. Wednesday
07-08-2004, 09:50 AM
2.) It can be a dangerous game when states start to get dependent on money from fines and the like. For example, every state that has agreed to take tobacco settlement money (and almost instantly floated bonds based on those settlements) now has a financial interest in keeping tobacco companies solvent. In the case of punitives, we don't want states to start having incentives either to keep certain companies solvent because the state is depending on them for punitive damage awards OR to change the rules to make sure that compaines keep getting hit with punitives. At its worst, such a rule would devolve into state mandated "public welfare insurance" paid by the companies.I don't see how the state incentives are any different than the incentives to produce income streams from fines due to laws and regulations. The basic effect and intent of punitive damages in my mind is to act like a fine, which is why I advocate it being paid to the state as with any other fine. I hadn't considered the negative effect in terms of attorneys and plaintiffs not getting paid, but it seems to me that something along the lines of the Oregon system is a reasonable compromise.

KWhit
07-08-2004, 10:19 AM
I have heard quite a bit lately about the fact that in general the only people who make any money from class action lawsuits are the lawyers.

Twice in the past week, I have heard news stories (one on NPR, one on another network) that gave examples of the members of the class action each getting a coupon for a free rental at Blockbuster while the attorneys made 9 million dollars.

I admit that I have no idea about the details about how many attorneys worked the case and how many hours they worked, etc. but this seems ludicrous.

Help me understand this.

KWhit
07-08-2004, 10:21 AM
Dola:

By the way, I loved this statement:

"If you look at the Bill of Rights (and if you have not lately—WHY NOT? Lots of men have died to preserve those freedoms. Don’t dishonor their memory by taking it for granted.)"

John Galt
07-08-2004, 10:46 AM
I have heard quite a bit lately about the fact that in general the only people who make any money from class action lawsuits are the lawyers.

Twice in the past week, I have heard news stories (one on NPR, one on another network) that gave examples of the members of the class action each getting a coupon for a free rental at Blockbuster while the attorneys made 9 million dollars.

I admit that I have no idea about the details about how many attorneys worked the case and how many hours they worked, etc. but this seems ludicrous.

Help me understand this.

Basically, class actions suits work on contigency. A plaintiff's lawyer will normally not take any money unless the case is won. If they win the case, the lawyer takes a cut (usually 1/3) of the money. Reasons why lawyers get a lot and people don't get very much are:

1) Lawyers take a lot of the cases and lose a lot (or often settle for a low amount because they are going to lose). In those cases, they get nothing, so in order to run a business they make a lot when they win.

2) Often class action suits result in damages that aren't just money back to plaintiffs. Easy examples are when money is given to funds or the government or when the company changes policy as a result of the suit. Often these changes are evaluated in the total value of the lawsuit and a lawyer gets 1/3 of that total value (even when the plaintiffs themselves are getting far less). This is especially common in securities class actions.

3) Juries are very unpredictable when it comes to damages so maintaining a steady flow of income is hard. These cases often take a long time and if the jury comes back with a low number (or no number at all), that is a lot of work for very little.

In the legal community, there is a lot of snobbishness toward plaintiff's lawyers and they are not held in high regard. Still, they serve a function and I understand the need for their contingency billing structures, but it does make for easy news stories about evil lawyers.

sterlingice
07-08-2004, 01:44 PM
judicial clerk is right that there must be some defect in the product for a products liability claim. In that sense "do nothing wrong" can be read inaccurately. It means that no matter how safe you were in making your product--it is still coming out of your pocketbook when it blows up (assuming (which I did not make clear enough up top) that it blew up because of an inherent defect--not because of a 3rd party coming along and screwing with it).
This is the part of product liability that I despise. As an engineering student, it is impossible to make a product 100% safe. And the way it is always intepreted is that when something goes wrong, someone has to pay be it the designer or whoever the buck is passed to (i.e. the 3rd party). I've always thought there should be a legal test as to whether there was gross negligence or intent to injure but we, as a society, always have a need for some sort of scapegoat. If products had to be tested so that they never failed, we'd have no technological innovation and still be back in the stone age.

SI

John Galt
07-08-2004, 01:51 PM
This is the part of product liability that I despise. As an engineering student, it is impossible to make a product 100% safe. And the way it is always intepreted is that when something goes wrong, someone has to pay be it the designer or whoever the buck is passed to (i.e. the 3rd party). I've always thought there should be a legal test as to whether there was gross negligence or intent to injure but we, as a society, always have a need for some sort of scapegoat. If products had to be tested so that they never failed, we'd have no technological innovation and still be back in the stone age.

SI

The rule is built that way based largely on the idea that we should find fault with those most in a position to prevent the problem. This usually stems from a higher level of knowledge. Ultimately, you could have the normal rule in place, but you would have the same lawsuits, only discovery issues would be much more problematic. All the engineers and designers would have to be interviewed and examined and the manufacturing process would have to be turned upside down.

Ultimately, strict liability creates a more efficient legal system (by limiting the questions that are addressed in court) and it puts the burden on those who can do the most to prevent the problem. Sure, it means a few extra damages here or there - but that is just the cost of doing business that eventually gets passed onto the consumer. Most people consider strict liability to be a success in American law because it seems to increase safety and some notable conservative legal academics have proposed applying strict liability to all tort law.

It should also be noted that strict liability doesn't mean automatically that the defendant loses. Questions of causation are still prominent.

Z²+
07-08-2004, 01:54 PM
Thanks for an excellent post, albion. I'm starting law school in the fall, and I found your post very interesting to read. Hopefully I find the next 3 years just as easy to understand :)

sterlingice
07-08-2004, 01:57 PM
It should also be noted that strict liability doesn't mean automatically that the defendant loses. Questions of causation are still prominent.
You'll have to explain this part slowly and in small words ;)

But for the rest, my whole point is that you can't accurately predict every condition under which a product will be used under and you can't possibly conceive of every possible failure. My favorite example to use for this is an overly simplified version of Challenger. Sure, in retrospect, now that we know what caused the explosion, it's a simple and easy thing to prevent. But no one knew the o-rings would fail under a certain temperature. Heck, they didn't even think they were temperature sensitive until it happened (I mean in the sense that 40 degrees would be a point that would cause them to fail). So, I don't care about passing blame which is what your first two paragraphs were about. Passing the blame is the problem- what if there was no one who was negligent, as was the case. Some things are just unknown to us and we can't possibly know everything in advance.

SI

John Galt
07-08-2004, 02:09 PM
You'll have to explain this part slowly and in small words ;)

But for the rest, my whole point is that you can't accurately predict every condition under which a product will be used under and you can't possibly conceive of every possible failure. My favorite example to use for this is an overly simplified version of Challenger. Sure, in retrospect, now that we know what caused the explosion, it's a simple and easy thing to prevent. But no one knew the o-rings would fail under a certain temperature. Heck, they didn't even think they were temperature sensitive until it happened (I mean in the sense that 40 degrees would be a point that would cause them to fail). So, I don't care about passing blame which is what your first two paragraphs were about. Passing the blame is the problem- what if there was no one who was negligent, as was the case. Some things are just unknown to us and we can't possibly know everything in advance.

SI

I'm not going to explain the first part now, because it is a little complicated - I'll try to get to it later (unless someone else wants to do it).

The second part is a little easier (and may help shed light on the first). Strict liability is not really about blame - it is about creating efficiency in the court system and trying to prevent problems from happening in the first place. The idea of strict liability is very connected to the prominent conservative ideology in the legal community called "law and economics." Basically, the idea is that the particulars of a rule like strict liability in terms of "right" and "wrong" aren't as important as having a rule which decreases the social costs of litigation and wrongdoing. Obviously you can't predict everything in advance and things will ALWAYS go wrong - the point of strict liability is to make a rule that works for the courts and for the parties involved. Yes, businesses pay out more, but they are almost always insured and they just pass the cost on to the consumer. In other words, the people buying the product (that blew up in the first place) already paid for the lawsuit because the cost of the insurance was factored into the price of the good. The plaintiff just happened to be the 1 in a 1,000,000 person who lost the blow-up-in-your-face lottery and should be compensated for that built in risk.

I hope that makes a little more sense.

albionmoonlight
07-08-2004, 03:46 PM
si--John is doing a good job, but here is another way to look at it.

1 out of a 1,000,000 products will blow up no matter how well they are made (let's take this as an assumption.)

We could sell the product to everyone at $10.00 each and when you happen to get the one that blows up, it just sucks to be you.

OR we could sell the product to everyone at $10.05 each and have the company pay the guy who has the one that blows up.

We choose to do the latter, saying that the cost of the product blowing up should be borne by those who use the product.

It has nothing to do with blame or with saying that the company making the product did not act in a reasonable manner.

sterlingice
07-08-2004, 05:18 PM
Thanks for the clarifications, guys (again, one of the better threads on the board in quite a while). :)

SI

Mr. Wednesday
07-08-2004, 05:34 PM
Does the strict liability for defects preclude a larger claim based on negligence in product design?

Ajaxab
07-08-2004, 05:57 PM
This kind of intelligent discussion (at least in threads like these ;) ) is why I frequent this board. Thanks for those who contributed. It's nice to learn something new.

judicial clerk
07-08-2004, 07:19 PM
Does the strict liability for defects preclude a larger claim based on negligence in product design?

No, typically a plaintiff would also make a claim for strict liability and negligence against the manufacturer/distributor/retailer in the same lawsuit, but for the same damages as the products liability claim.

-as a side note, I was the foreman for a jury about three years ago. Plaintiff was a middle aged man injured when he was rear-ended. Defendant was insurance company for the other driver. (Usually the insurance company is not the named defendant even though they are paying for the defense. The thought is that jurors would be unfairly willing to award big damages if they know the defendant has insurance. Kind of what we have been talking about.) The defendants admitted liability and economic damages, and the only issue to decide was damages for pain & suffering. The plaintiff alleged soft tissue injures (whip lash). he missed one day of work as a lineman for the phone company and he was in treatment for about one year after the accident with a chiropractor. (maybe 40 visits). Plainitff complained of continued pain and discomfort in his neck and back. Plaintiff was asking for $17,000.00 for his pain and suffering. Defendants claimed injuries were minimal and the plainitff was a malingerer or his pain was not a result of the accident. Guess what we awarded. (if you care at all) I will post answer shortly.

Barkeep49
07-08-2004, 07:47 PM
Going back to the couponing issue: Isn't this an example where the best interests of the client and lawyer are not aligned? The lawyer is getting cold hard cash while the plaintiff class is getting a coupon, which might or might not be of use for members of the class. Can't the lawyers win a larger nomative settlement, thus enriching them, while the companies know that people recieving the coupon are probabally A) Less likely to register as part of the class and B)Even if they are identified as membres of the class, I would imagine that the redemption rate is lower for coupons than cold hard cash (in the form of a check) thus further lowering the plaintiff's costs. So again isn't this an example of the lawyer having a different priority than who the lawyer is representing?

albionmoonlight
07-08-2004, 07:58 PM
Going back to the couponing issue: Isn't this an example where the best interests of the client and lawyer are not aligned? The lawyer is getting cold hard cash while the plaintiff class is getting a coupon, which might or might not be of use for members of the class. Can't the lawyers win a larger nomative settlement, thus enriching them, while the companies know that people recieving the coupon are probabally A) Less likely to register as part of the class and B)Even if they are identified as membres of the class, I would imagine that the redemption rate is lower for coupons than cold hard cash (in the form of a check) thus further lowering the plaintiff's costs. So again isn't this an example of the lawyer having a different priority than who the lawyer is representing?
Good catch. Judges generally need to take a larger role in policing settlements in class action lawsuits to make sure that they are fair. Let's say Starbucks is accused of doing something that could be worth $500,000,000 in damages. Both Starbucks and the plaintiffs' lawyers would love to say--lets pay the lawyers 5,000,000 to make this go away and we'll give all of the class members 5 coupons each for 10% off espresso. The judge has to look at that settlement and decide if it is fair or not. Judges don't like doing that because they are accustomed to a system in which plaintiffs and defendants lawyers want two different things. A lot of the fact finding, etc. depends on the advereral (sp?) process.

Again, good catch.

judicial clerk
07-08-2004, 08:10 PM
750 bucks

Fritz
07-08-2004, 09:55 PM
heart attack - check