Moving (real life) to Charlotte, NC

[Blackadar]

Since I can't change the title of the "Moving to Huntsville, AL" thread, I thought I'd start a new one. After all that, I'm not going to Huntsville, AL. :)

You can find the original discussions here:

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?t=27761 (moving to Huntsville, AL thread)

and

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?t=27359 (help me choose my new job!)

Ok, it gets more interesting...

So I accepted the offer to take the Sales Manager position in Huntsville (telecommunications) over a Sales Rep job (software) in Charlotte, NC. One of the reasons I went with the Huntsville job was because they offered to move me. The Charlotte job wanted me to spend the money to get back to NC. I didn't like the risk involved in spending my own dough to get back to NC just for a rep's job.

So after I accepted the offer for the Manager's job, they wanted me to go to Atlanta for a managers' meeting starting Monday. I couldn't make Monday, but I said I would go for the Tuesday-Wednesday sessions. I loaded the family in the car to go to Atlanta for a manager's meeting on Tuesday. I figured we'd go from there to Hunstville on Thursday and Friday to pick a place to live, etc.

Monday night, the Charlotte company throws a modest relocation package my way. Nothing big, but I told them I'd consider it. I really wasn't that interested - after all, I gave the Huntsville group my word that I'd come to work for them. Plus, I was still excited about working for them. However, I did study their financials and wasn't at all pleased with what I saw. They're losing money and 85% of their revenues comes from residentiall services while I was going to go work the business unit side. If they're going to cut back to try to stop losing money, it would make sense they'd hit the business side first. So I did have a couple of reservations.

On Tuesday, the manager's meeting was a mess. They Huntsville company didn't seem to have anything really under control - provisioning issues, major organizational differences among offices, no comprehensive training or message, etc. It was like a startup company - but they weren't. The people were nice, but they didn't have their act together.

In telecom, usually 9-10 managers would manage 50-80 reps. Between the 9 or 10 of the managers for this company, there were only 18 reps. And about 30 support people dedicated to the reps. Only 2 of the 18 were over quota. Only about 3-4 more were within sight of quota. So about 75% of the reps were failing miserably. Between what I saw and the financials of the company, I became VERY uneasy and left at the end of the day with major concerns.

I talked to my wife over dinner and then my friend/former boss who's trying to hire me for the Charlotte gig called me. After some deliberation and taking some time to make sure he (and the owner of the Charlotte company) understood what I was there to do and what my goals were, took that job.

Called the Huntsville company back and essentially, "I'm sorry, but thanks but no thanks". Talk about pissed off...WOW! I can undestand it because I hated to do it. But from what I saw in the meeting, I understand why their financials are a mess. They don't need me as a manager - they need me as a consultant.

So I went to Charlotte for the rest of this week, spoke with my old/new boss/friend and I'm starting August 4th and looking forward to it. Now it's time to start packing to move to Charlotte!!!

Anyone live up there?

[The_herd]

I lived there for a while. Not a bad area, although directly outside of Charlotte isn't really all that nice. The Hornets were huge when I was there. I distictly remember tickets to Bulls games going for over $500 a ticket. The Speedway was nearby and I got the pleasure of hearing every cup race there. In all, I liked it there, just not the rest of NC.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Live there? Nope.

And it's one of the few Southern cities that I'll add a "Thank God" to the end of that answer about.

Every dealing I've had with Charlotte (which is admittedly mostly media related) has convinced me that it's a city with "Atlanta-syndrome", which is to say that it is convinced that it is much bigger, much more important, and much more influential than its size dictates. (The Atlanta reference is to how Charlotte seems to view itself as being the size of Atlanta).

My impression of Charlotte is probably most like some people we've all run across in our lives, the one's who lead us to think "If I could buy them for what they're worth and then sell them for what they think they're worth, I could retire on the profit".

[Wolfpack]

I have a lot of family in Charlotte and was there on vacation visiting them last week as a matter of fact.

Going on what I know, which is mostly through family, generally just about anywhere in Charlotte is decent to live, though the east side around Idlewild and Independence seems to be sliding. South Charlotte and Pineville is the sprawling suburb of middle- to upper-middle class housing with some high wealth sprinkled throughout. The airport's on the west side of the city so that's more commercially developed rather than residential. Go further west and you end up in Gaston County, which is basically the trailer park of the metropolitan area. North side I think is getting set to turn into the south side once they get I-485 finished over top of the city (will be a few years though). For now, it's more rural aside from the high rollers in the vicinity of Lake Norman. Northeast lands you Concord and Cabarras County, home of the Lowe's Motor Speedway, which generally indicates the type of person living there. You can go further afield southeast to Union County, which is beginning to blossom as a suburban area, but there's no direct freeway connection to the city. Having been to Charlotte, I assume you know the street grid is an absolute train wreck once you get away from the central city with streets taking wild swings through the city (all the major thoroughfares it seems take a left or a right at an intersection at some point or just get turned into a different street name abruptly).

I'm most familiar with the south side of the city since that's where my parents and both my sisters' families live.

[Buzzbee]

Lived in Charlotte for a year. Grew up in and live in Atlanta now. JonInMidGa is right about Charlotte being a "little Atlanta". It is a lot like Atlanta was 10 years ago, but thinks it is Atlanta now.

I lived on the northern side in the Unversity City area and worked a little farther south in the Graham St./Sugar Creek area. University City is a growing area and has a pretty good mix of upper middle class down to the struggling college student (UNC Charlotte is not far away, hence University City). Since I lived there, I am of course biased, but think it might be a good area to look at for housing. It is close to both I-85 and I-77 if you are going to be travelling by car, and not toooo far from the airport if you'll be flying. Downside is that it is currently growing, is somewhat trendy, and therefore tends to be a little over-priced.

Let me know if you need more info. Also, if you need to pick my brain again on the software sales stuff, just PM.

[Buzzbee]

Having been to Charlotte, I assume you know the street grid is an absolute train wreck once you get away from the central city with streets taking wild swings through the city (all the major thoroughfares it seems take a left or a right at an intersection at some point or just get turned into a different street name abruptly).


Heaven forbid you EVER go to Atlanta. Street grid? What's that? There is a reason an intersection of two major interstates (I-85 and I-285) is affectionately called "Spaghetti Junction".

[Blackadar]

Well, I'm renting a house in the historic district of Concord. I know it'll be a bit...less cultured...but the price was good and it's two blocks from my office. I can walk to work and it costs me $625/mth vs. apartments at $900/mth.

[Wolfpack]

Not too shabby. I'd say you'll do fine there. It should be cheaper to live there than over the line in Mecklenburg County, not to mention you're near that grand shopping mecca called Concord Mills (it's big anyway).

[Wolfpack]

Lived in Charlotte for a year. Grew up in and live in Atlanta now. JonInMidGa is right about Charlotte being a "little Atlanta". It is a lot like Atlanta was 10 years ago, but thinks it is Atlanta now.

I lived on the northern side in the Unversity City area and worked a little farther south in the Graham St./Sugar Creek area. University City is a growing area and has a pretty good mix of upper middle class down to the struggling college student (UNC Charlotte is not far away, hence University City). Since I lived there, I am of course biased, but think it might be a good area to look at for housing. It is close to both I-85 and I-77 if you are going to be travelling by car, and not toooo far from the airport if you'll be flying. Downside is that it is currently growing, is somewhat trendy, and therefore tends to be a little over-priced.

Let me know if you need more info. Also, if you need to pick my brain again on the software sales stuff, just PM.

Yeah, Charlotte does have quite a bit of Atlanta-envy, but at this point, it definitely has the banking power to try to keep up (whether that's a good thing is something else altogether).

Another downside is that I-77/I-85 are both going through massive road construction along with the building of the I-485 loop, which DOT had a lack of common sense in building just two lanes in each direction for much of its current length (get set for more construction to widen and correct that mistake sometime in the future).

Heaven forbid you EVER go to Atlanta. Street grid? What's that? There is a reason an intersection of two major interstates (I-85 and I-285) is affectionately called "Spaghetti Junction".

Yeah, I've heard that about ATL. Everything is named "Peachtree", kinda like half the streets in CLT are named "Sharon" or some derivation.

[oliegirl]

Yeah, I've heard that about ATL. Everything is named "Peachtree", kinda like half the streets in CLT are named "Sharon" or some derivation

This is very true, my parents live in Peachtree Station which is off of Peachtree Corners Circle and Peachtree Parkway, which at some point was Peachtree Street. I went to Peachtree Elementary school and now I live off of Peachtree Industrial Blvd, which does intersect the other Peachtree named streets mentioned earlier...try giving directions to someone who has never been here before!!!

The other thing about Atlanta that no one tells you, is that streets change names with NO warning!!! You will come to an intersection, go straight, and then realize you are on another street! Luckily I had lived here for 9 years before I had to start learning to drive...but I am just now beginning to navigate my way through downtown without getting lost...

[Zippo]

it's going to be great for you to watch Okafor playing for the bobcats. :)

[PraetorianX]

Live there? Nope.

And it's one of the few Southern cities that I'll add a "Thank God" to the end of that answer about.

Every dealing I've had with Charlotte (which is admittedly mostly media related) has convinced me that it's a city with "Atlanta-syndrome", which is to say that it is convinced that it is much bigger, much more important, and much more influential than its size dictates. (The Atlanta reference is to how Charlotte seems to view itself as being the size of Atlanta).

My impression of Charlotte is probably most like some people we've all run across in our lives, the one's who lead us to think "If I could buy them for what they're worth and then sell them for what they think they're worth, I could retire on the profit".

You do know...Charlotte is the #2 banking center in the United States and one of the biggest in the entire world? So it's not exactly unimportant.


Anyway, I live a little ways south east of Charlotte in Union County...Charlotte's a nice city, the surrounding areas are nice. The locals are interesting...to me at least (being a Indy native).

[JonInMiddleGA]

You do know...Charlotte is the #2 banking center in the United States and one of the biggest in the entire world? So it's not exactly unimportant.

And I didn't say it was.

But it's also the 37th-sized radio market and/or the 28th largest TV market.
But when you work with them, you'd think they were a top-10 population center.

As I said, my primary dealing with the area has been with its media, but regardless of the industry, I am always (as in: without fail) struck by their
lack of perspective about their place in the world outside NC.

They certainly aren't the only area afflicted by that particular disorder, they just happened to be the one that was the topic of conversation at the moment.

It's interesting that you mention being an Indianapolis native -- it's another market that notoriously suffers from a similar syndrome. Perhaps that makes it less noticeable/more "normal"/less annoying to you? (Not ripping on you, or Indy for that matter, just pointing out what seems like a reasonable possibility).

[MrBug708]

Well, I'm renting a house in the historic district of Concord. I know it'll be a bit...less cultured...but the price was good and it's two blocks from my office. I can walk to work and it costs me $625/mth vs. apartments at $900/mth.


HOLY CRAP. You can rent a one room apartment for 1000 dollars in SoCal. Thankfully my career will take me away from high costs of living. :D

[Blackadar]

And I didn't say it was.

But it's also the 37th-sized radio market and/or the 28th largest TV market.
But when you work with them, you'd think they were a top-10 population center.

As I said, my primary dealing with the area has been with its media, but regardless of the industry, I am always (as in: without fail) struck by their
lack of perspective about their place in the world outside NC.

They certainly aren't the only area afflicted by that particular disorder, they just happened to be the one that was the topic of conversation at the moment.

It's interesting that you mention being an Indianapolis native -- it's another market that notoriously suffers from a similar syndrome. Perhaps that makes it less noticeable/more "normal"/less annoying to you? (Not ripping on you, or Indy for that matter, just pointing out what seems like a reasonable possibility).


I'm not sure that's just Charlotte. I noticed the same 'tude when I lived in Greensboro and Raleigh as well. Must be the NC thing, I suppose.

Either way, I can't beat $625/mth for a house in the historic district that I can (and will) walk to work from. 2 blocks away...sweet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm not sure that's just Charlotte. I noticed the same 'tude when I lived in Greensboro and Raleigh as well. Must be the NC thing, I suppose.


Now that you mention it ... I was just saying last week that all of a sudden, Raleigh seems to think it's Charlotte ;)

Either way, I can't beat $625/mth for a house in the historic district that I can (and will) walk to work from. 2 blocks away...sweet.

It does indeed sound like you found a very good housing situation, which can improve matters quite a bit no matter where you are.

[Peregrine]

I was just saying last week that all of a sudden, Raleigh seems to think it's Charlotte

Ugh, say it ain't so. The last thing I want this area to become is another Charlotte, that place is horrible.

[CamEdwards]

Well, I'm renting a house in the historic district of Concord. I know it'll be a bit...less cultured...but the price was good and it's two blocks from my office. I can walk to work and it costs me $625/mth vs. apartments at $900/mth.

damn. I'm paying $2200 a month to live 45 minutes away from work. Maybe I should try and relocate to Charlotte!

[Samdari]

Wow, congrats Blackie. I was going to post in the other thread how I consider Huntsville to be the worst place on earth, but decided not to rain on the good things happening in your life. Now, I can say with unequivocal joy, "Congratulations!" on not going to Huntsville!

[gstelmack]

damn. I'm paying $2200 a month to live 45 minutes away from work. Maybe I should try and relocate to Charlotte!
Really? Glad I got low-balled on that job offer that would have moved me to the DC area (a decade ago, not recent, but why anyone would offer a Florida salary to live in DC and expect someone to take it is beyond me...). My mortgage on a 2500 sq ft home in Cary (one of the more expensive towns around Raleigh to buy housing) is only $1300/month including escrow payments. You'll pay a lot less if you move out into the county or to some of the other towns around here.

[Wolfpack]

The problem with both Raleigh and Charlotte now is that it's suffereing from a heavy infestation of transplanted Yankees (their arrogance is probably fueling this overblown civic pride... ;) ). A Raleigh suburb, Cary has been redefined as the "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees" because of this. :)

Seriously, I think there is some degree of inferiority complexing since NC is stuck between Atlanta and Washington, both of whom make news all the time. I think it still rankles people down there that they have to clarify which state they're in when reporting news in NC nationally. It's not "Charlotte", but "Charlotte, North Carolina". "Atlanta" is never referred to as "Atlanta, Georgia" in the news. Makes Charlotte or Raleigh sound like any backwater burg in the rural South or West rather than the million-plus metro areas they've become in the last decade.

To that end, there is a real earnest effort to puff things up civically so they can get out of the shadow of DC and Atlanta, even as it results in damn near uncontrolled sprawl and a rash of bad moves to keep up with both the growth locally and the "keeping-up-with-the-Joneses" outlook on other metro areas around the country *cough*light rail in Raleigh*cough, *cough*arena in Charlotte*cough*.

[Jets80]

There goes the neighborhood ;) I live about 15 mins from Concord. Welcome to Charlotte.

[Samdari]

damn. I'm paying $2200 a month to live 45 minutes away from work. Maybe I should try and relocate to Charlotte!


Did you rent a house?

In Burke?

[Peregrine]

A Raleigh suburb, Cary has been redefined as the "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees" because of this.

Well I live in Cary, I think it's more of a joke name than anything, there's plenty of southerners here too, though of course transplanted Yankees are common throughout the whole Triangle area.

[gstelmack]

Well I live in Cary
And yet you still put "Raleigh" in your profile? C'mon, we'll overtake Raleigh yet! http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I think it's more of a joke name than anything, there's plenty of southerners here too, though of course transplanted Yankees are common throughout the whole Triangle area.
It's not so much Yankees as Yuppies (and yes, I count myself here) in Cary, which makes Cary the butt of many jokes around these parts. But Cary is a great place to raise a family.

[Peregrine]

And yet you still put "Raleigh" in your profile? C'mon, we'll overtake Raleigh yet!

Well, my thinking was that no one outside NC would really know where Cary is ;)

[gstelmack]

Well, my thinking was that no one outside NC would really know where Cary is ;)
They will when Cary annexes Raleigh http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[PraetorianX]

And I didn't say it was.

But it's also the 37th-sized radio market and/or the 28th largest TV market.
But when you work with them, you'd think they were a top-10 population center.

As I said, my primary dealing with the area has been with its media, but regardless of the industry, I am always (as in: without fail) struck by their
lack of perspective about their place in the world outside NC.

They certainly aren't the only area afflicted by that particular disorder, they just happened to be the one that was the topic of conversation at the moment.

It's interesting that you mention being an Indianapolis native -- it's another market that notoriously suffers from a similar syndrome. Perhaps that makes it less noticeable/more "normal"/less annoying to you? (Not ripping on you, or Indy for that matter, just pointing out what seems like a reasonable possibility).

Personally, I think the main problem your seeing is quite simple. Most of the time people will try to talk up their own city. Especially if it's in a business setting. No sense in saying "Yeah...this city sucks, traffic is horrendous and you'll get shot about once a week. It also smells bad...and you have to wear a gas mask do to the polution...and you can't drink the water. Other then that, it's A-Ok though."

Most people will likely talk up their own cities. People in NYC and LA and other major cities do too, it's just less noticable since they really are big major cities.

[SunDancer]

I just got back from vacation the Charlotte/NC-SC a yesterday after a week visit. Charlotte beats the region (buffalo, new york) I currently live in, but something about the city lacks. It doesn't really have much appeal or charm in the city. Outside of Bank of America, what major companies are located here?

[JonInMiddleGA]

"Yeah...this city sucks, traffic is horrendous and you'll get shot about once a week. It also smells bad...and you have to wear a gas mask do to the polution...and you can't drink the water. Other then that, it's A-Ok though."

I see you've been to Atlanta ;)

Most people will likely talk up their own cities.

Largely because I didn't do a good job of detailing what I meant originally, I think we're talking about different things here.

There's actually very little of the chamber-of-commerce type stuff that I've heard from my Charlotte contacts. Instead, I'm talking about a sort-of arrogance that leads to gross overpricing, an attitude of "by divine right",
and generally insufferable undue arrogance about virtually anything & everything you can name -- not because of anything about Charlotte, but just because it is Charlotte.

[Wolfpack]

"by divine right"


Hey, it's Charlotte. Some of the most monolithicially outsized churches I've ever seen are in Charlotte, so maybe they think they do have a "divine right". :)