Just one question after a week with 'em... [Archive]

Buzzbee

07-20-2004, 02:02 PM

My middle schooler doesn't have one. Wants one desparately, but ain't gettin' it.

From what I have seen they are a convenience to the parent/s. Many parents will drop their kid off at practice and have their kid call them when practice is done, rather than sitting and watching/participating. Also, many parents depend on the cell phone as a way of "keeping up" with their kids.

For the kid, it's cool to have one. It makes them feel more mature and "grown-up". If they don't feel good at school: "Oh, I'll just call mom on my cell phone and tell her to come pick me up." It gives the kid freedom because they are always a "phone call away" and can go places parent might otherwise not let them. Yes, there are pay phones most places, but the cell phone gives them the ability to call whenever and whereever without having to depend on someone else or on there being a phone available.

As for your question, no. I cannot think of one reason why someone in middle school should have a cell phone. Unless they are driving, or hanging out with people who do, there isn't much of a reason to have one.

Ben E Lou

07-20-2004, 02:06 PM

I have seen some middle schoolers and parents very responsibly use phones so the kid could have more freedom to move around then would otherwise be possible, while still allowing the parents to know what they were up to.Move around where? From everything I've read and observed about that age group, if they're going somewhere (mall, movies, neighborhood pool) where the parents won't be with them, they should either be dropped off by a parent or trusted adult friend. They aren't mobile enough to have to check in because of moving from place to place, like a high school kid with a car.

Further, the ones that I'm specifically dealing with are virtually always dropped off by parents or trusted friends, so the parents know where they are by default. My suspicion is that they have them because they think they're "cool" and "adult", and therefore nagged their parents until they got them one.

bbor

07-20-2004, 02:07 PM

I don't think we even had a home phone when i was in middle school:)

Ben E Lou

07-20-2004, 02:07 PM

Heh. Buzzbee beat me to it. What he said.

Incidentally, I'm wide open for lunch the rest of this week and can meet you somewhere near your office. Let me know what might work.

clintl

07-20-2004, 02:07 PM

Move around where? From everything I've read and observed about that age group, if they're going somewhere (mall, movies, neighborhood pool) where the parents won't be with them, they should either be dropped off by a parent or trusted adult friend. They aren't mobile enough to have to check in because of moving from place to place, like a high school kid with a car.

Don't kids have bikes any more?

rkmsuf

07-20-2004, 02:09 PM

Don't kids have bikes any more?

the cool ones have mopeds

Ben E Lou

07-20-2004, 02:21 PM

Don't kids have bikes any more?In smaller towns, maybe, but keep in mind that I live in metro Atlanta, and in a subdivision-heavy area. Even the parents who are lenient enough to let their kids have a cell phone wouldn't let them ride a bike very far at all. In the huge majority of cases in my particular corner of metro Atlanta, you're in easy walking distance of everyone in your own subdivision, and in order to get to even the next subdivision over, you'd have to ride your bike on a high-traffic street. Furthermore, virtually every neighborhood that isn't a "No Outlet" is used as a cut-through for vehicular traffic to at least some degree. I've lived in the Tucker/Lakeside community since 1996, and I'm not sure I've ever seen a kid on a bike outside of their own neighborhood. For that matter, I've probably seen less than 10 kids on bikes ANYWHERE other than at a park during that 8 years. At my junior high, there were 8-10 racks where we could chain up our bicycles during the school day. The brand new Tucker Middle School, which opens its doors for the first time ever this year, doesn't have a single one put in yet, and I doubt they will.

Franklinnoble

07-20-2004, 02:22 PM

Can ANYONE give me a legitimate reason why a high school football team needs to have a passing game?
Fixed it for ya.

Ben E Lou

07-20-2004, 02:22 PM

Fixed it for ya.:D

Bee

07-20-2004, 02:25 PM

Recently there was a flood in the town where I grew up. My mother still lives there and was telling me that many school buses got stuck on the way to taking the kids home and many children were several hours late getting home (the neighbor's kid didn't get home until midnight). We're talking about buses that travel 15-20 miles to take the kids to school. That wouldn't be a bad time to have a cell phone if you're a kid IMO.

Vince

07-20-2004, 02:28 PM

Radii

07-20-2004, 02:28 PM

Hell, I can't think of a legitimate reason why 90% of adults that have cell phones *need* them(myself included).

primelord

07-20-2004, 02:31 PM

I remember when I was in Middle School, and I wanted to go somewhere, I walked. I really can't add much that SkyDog or Buzzbee haven't said, so I'll just end with my thought that cell phones aren't needed until kids are AT LEAST 16, and even then, that's too young, I think.
If they are driving at 16 then I think a cell phone makes perfect sense. I would prefer if my son/daughter were on the road that they be able to call me if there is a problem. I'd imagine it is fairly easy to restrict them to only usung it in emergencies as well. You can keep the phone limited to the fewest minutes possible and just review the bill when it comes in each month.

bbor

07-20-2004, 02:34 PM

Hell, I can't think of a legitimate reason why 90% of adults that have cell phones *need* them(myself included).

Duh...So our wives can reach us anytime of the day :D

JeeberD

07-20-2004, 02:38 PM

Of course there are the others for whom it is nothing more than a source of entertainment like a CD player or Gameboy.

Don't get me started on parents who let their kids bring their Gameboys into restaurants with them and let them play on the damn thing the whole length of the meal. God forbid that the kid has to partake in a conversation with his family...

Do NOT allow them to program phone numbers into their phones....then what ahppens is they do not memorize the necessary phone numers and only press "Ashley" to dial ashley but god forbid the kid ever needed to recall a number and didnt have the phone around, they wouldnt be able to.

I hardly have any phone numbers memorized. Whenever I'm filling out a form that asks for my work number I have to pull out my cell and look it up... :(

cthomer5000

07-20-2004, 02:42 PM

rkmsuf

07-20-2004, 02:44 PM

I want to get a rotary cell phone

Buzzbee

07-20-2004, 02:46 PM

Don't get me started on parents who let their kids bring their Gameboys into restaurants with them and let them play on the damn thing the whole length of the meal. God forbid that the kid has to partake in a conversation with his family...

Yes, families should have a nice conversation during a dinner out. However, if the choice is

1) a kid sitting playing a gameboy

2) a kid sitting and whining because they are bored because the parents are too busy eating or talking amongst themselves

3) a kid wandering all over the restaurant pestering and disturbing everyone except his/her own parents

then give me option #1 anytime (coming from a parent of a 13 and 9 year old).

Samdari

07-20-2004, 02:49 PM

My brother's 8 year old thinks he desperately needs a cell phone. So far they have resisted, but the kid has eventually gotten everything he has ever wanted, so I'm betting he'll have one by age 10.

As for your story about gameboys in restaurants and cell phones being no more than toys like them: Me and Mrs Sam went to dinner a few weeks ago. At a table near us was a middle aged couple, their two teenage kids, and Grandma. It appeared as though they were taking grandma to dinner for her birthday (sue me, I eavesdrop in public places). No less than 5 times during dinner, one of the kids got a cell phone, call, and jumped up from the table to run outside and take the call. I was appalled at such behavior, wondering how the parents could allow such rudeness - until, as we were leaving, Dad got a call, jumped up from the table and ran outside to take it. Happy Birthday Grandma, I hope you enjoy the time your family set aside for you.

When did it become such a sin to be unavailable for an hour (or a day, or even a week)?

JeeberD

07-20-2004, 02:54 PM

When did it become such a sin to be unavailable for an hour (or a day, or even a week)?

Yup. When I go out to eat I leave the cell in the car. Ain't nobody interuptin' my feedin' time... :)

SplitPersonality1

07-20-2004, 03:06 PM

Yup. When I go out to eat I leave the cell in the car. Ain't nobody interuptin' my feedin' time... :)

I leave mine on vibrate. Not only is it courteous to the general public....it's kind of fun. There was this one time when......wait.....wrong forum. :)

Samdari

07-20-2004, 03:16 PM

I only own a cell phone because it is the same price as a land line, but I can take it anywhere.

I would love to see the stats on declining home phone installation. It's gotta be jumping off a cliff.

This is one of those things that is happening much slower than predicted, and I do not think it will happen at all, actually. I see this imaginary phenomenon almost along the same lines as the .com boom.

According to the latest numbers I could find, only 3% of Americans use their mobile as their primary phone (note that this does not preclude also having a land line). Also, according to the same article, the number of installed land lines has fallen off only about 2%. Scary to the local phone companies (although, most of them seem to have a thriving mobile phone business) but hardly falling off a cliff.

I think this trend will continue for a while, as more and more people who have been using a cell as 'their' phone (separate from Mom and Dad's) enter the real world (from college and high school) they will continue to use that as their phone. But, I think eventually, banks will come to see the security of a land line which can be matched to a physical address as a necesity in approving loan applications.

clintl

07-20-2004, 03:19 PM

In smaller towns, maybe, but keep in mind that I live in metro Atlanta, and in a subdivision-heavy area. Even the parents who are lenient enough to let their kids have a cell phone wouldn't let them ride a bike very far at all. In the huge majority of cases in my particular corner of metro Atlanta, you're in easy walking distance of everyone in your own subdivision, and in order to get to even the next subdivision over, you'd have to ride your bike on a high-traffic street. Furthermore, virtually every neighborhood that isn't a "No Outlet" is used as a cut-through for vehicular traffic to at least some degree. I've lived in the Tucker/Lakeside community since 1996, and I'm not sure I've ever seen a kid on a bike outside of their own neighborhood. For that matter, I've probably seen less than 10 kids on bikes ANYWHERE other than at a park during that 8 years. At my junior high, there were 8-10 racks where we could chain up our bicycles during the school day. The brand new Tucker Middle School, which opens its doors for the first time ever this year, doesn't have a single one put in yet, and I doubt they will.

Good points. I've lived mostly in small towns, and the city I live in now is known for the high percentage of bike riders, so I've always been used to having them around.

Vince

07-20-2004, 03:22 PM

If they are driving at 16 then I think a cell phone makes perfect sense. I would prefer if my son/daughter were on the road that they be able to call me if there is a problem. I'd imagine it is fairly easy to restrict them to only usung it in emergencies as well. You can keep the phone limited to the fewest minutes possible and just review the bill when it comes in each month.
I totally agree about the car thing...I still think 16 is a bit young though. I think of what I was like when I was sixteen, and that scares me...and I was a pretty damned responsible kid :)

Radii

07-20-2004, 03:23 PM

When did it become such a sin to be unavailable for an hour (or a day, or even a week)?

I totally agree. My cell phone stays on vibrate. If I am at work and anyone besides OlieGirl calls, I don't answer it. No one needs to talk to me during work that badly, I'm supposed to be busy. I'll check the message when I feel it's convienant.

When I get home at night the cell phone goes on the counter, still on vibrate. If you called, i'll see it the next time I pick up my cell to go out. If you needed to talk to me that bad, you have my home number. If you don't have my home number, then trust me, you didn't need to talk to me that bad.

If I'm out with my family and it rings, half the time I don't even look at it to see who's calling. It can wait. I don't care what it is, it can wait until I'm done spending time with my family.

I have only made 1 call on my cell phone while out with my family that I can remember in the last 9 months that we've been together. A friend of mine had called and left a message saying "I need to ask you something" and sounded semi-urgent, and had left the message the day before. So I thought a call back was reasonably warranted. But I felt bad doing it anyway, it was rude to my fiancee and kid to hop on my cell phone and have a casual conversation while we were all out together. I kept it reasonably short even though we hadn't talked in awhile, and sent him a long(for me) chatty e-mail BS'ing about a bunch of stuff later on that evening just to keep in touch.

Can you tell I rather loathe cell phones :D They're a nice convienance, they're great to have in an emergency situation, but I will not be tied to it and I am not available to anyone but my immediate family 24/7.

BishopMVP

07-20-2004, 03:24 PM

rkmsuf

07-20-2004, 03:30 PM

At Umass, the phone system is pretty much so bad that cell phones are used as primary phones (plus the college lifestyle fits well with free nights/weekends to keep cost down.) I didn't get my cell phone until late Senior year of HS, so I've seen both sides, but I really couldn't live the same way without the cell phone. You can set things up on the fly instead of having to organize in advance, and I can't imagine going back to no cell phones.

I can't even believe I'm reading this. This is old fogey talk but back in my day I had to climb 5, 6 flights of stairs just to get to the phone. Sometimes with no shoes on...and that's the way it was and we liked it.

korme

07-20-2004, 03:46 PM

Can ANYONE give me a legitimate reason why a middle school kid needs to have a mobile phone?
big pimpin' baby

korme

07-20-2004, 03:51 PM

fyi, the worst month of my life is when my celly got broke after spring break and i was without it for that duration.. ouch ;)

Ben E Lou

07-20-2004, 05:49 PM

As far as the debate about having them, in a job like mine, it is a virtual necessity, and most YL areas pay for them for their staff. (Heck, when I started on full-time staff back in '91 I was handed a pager my first day on the job...) I spend so much time out of the office that it is like a 2nd business line for me. That being said, I set some definitive boundaries, like turning it off when I am at home in the evenings. (I turn it on when I've got work-related stuff in the evenings--which happens around 3-5 nights per week during the school year, and 1-2 during the summer.) Plus, my office is in the basement of a church building in a residential area that has poor coverage to start with. When I'm in the office, calls on it don't always come through. What is interesting is that my having it turned off some evenings and not working well in the office presents an issue for my high school kids. They virtually *never* call someone's home or office phone first; they use the mobile number exclusively. The ones that I'm closest to have figured out that they need to try me at home or the office before the mobile, but at times I feel guilty when I don't get a message from a kid who I don't know as well until the next morning.

I'd imagine that when the current crop of high school kids moves into adulthood, we'll see an acceleration of the no-land-line trend; they aren't using them anyway.

My wife's job also provides her one. (Actually, in the last position she was in before her current one, she had to carry a pager AND a mobile phone...) With both of us being in highly relational jobs that don't have traditional hours or boundaries, it goes without saying that we both turn those suckers off whenever we are having any sort of "together time."

Franklinnoble

07-20-2004, 06:05 PM

With both of us being in highly relational jobs that don't have traditional hours or boundaries, it goes without saying that we both turn those suckers off whenever we are having any sort of "naughty time."
Fixed it again.

Ben E Lou

07-20-2004, 06:23 PM

Fixed it again.Well, that too. :D

OK, this is probably too much information, but here goes...

1) We live in the neighborhood right behind the high school, right smack-dab in the center of Tucker.
2) Teenagers and adults feel free to drop in on us unannounced when major (and sometimes minor) difficulties are at hand.
3) We have a small window in our front door.
4) We have no children of our own.

and...

5) We have a very large, very comfortable L-sofa in the den, that can be seen from the front porch due to the windowed front door.

Imagine being a teenager and you're traumatized over something going on your life. You decide to go visit that youth ministry guy and his Christian Counselor wife, who you view as second parents. You walk up to the front door. At the moment you knock on the door, you also look through the window...

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

We have gotten more than a few laughs with close friends when they get up to courage to ask why we have that cut-out piece of cardboard covering the small window on the front door. Poor kid...

;)

Noop

07-20-2004, 06:33 PM

You know what I dislike cell phones with a passion because it gives people a reason to call you about the dumbest things. I got rid of mine a couple of months of go because getting phone calls at 1,2,3 in the morning is not cool. Especially from ugly females who some how got your phone number from who knows where. So no cell phone for me I will stick to my pager which has Net access.

Samdari

07-20-2004, 07:25 PM

Oh my god, the poor kid. He saw your naked butt???

Franklinnoble

07-20-2004, 07:30 PM

Well, that too. :D

OK, this is probably too much information, but here goes...

1) We live in the neighborhood right behind the high school, right smack-dab in the center of Tucker.
2) Teenagers and adults feel free to drop in on us unannounced when major (and sometimes minor) difficulties are at hand.
3) We have a small window in our front door.
4) We have no children of our own.

and...

5) We have a very large, very comfortable L-sofa in the den, that can be seen from the front porch due to the windowed front door.

Imagine being a teenager and you're traumatized over something going on your life. You decide to go visit that youth ministry guy and his Christian Counselor wife, who you view as second parents. You walk up to the front door. At the moment you knock on the door, you also look through the window...

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

We have gotten more than a few laughs with close friends when they get up to courage to ask why we have that cut-out piece of cardboard covering the small window on the front door. Poor kid...

;) Ahhh, see... the miscreant brings out the best in FOFC. :D

**Edit... hey, man, pix pls, thx.

Buccaneer

07-20-2004, 07:32 PM

Hell, I can't think of a legitimate reason why 90% of adults that have cell phones *need* them(myself included).
Only 90%???

I am really building a slow rage against cell phones (don't have one, don't want one). Not only assholes using them while driving but in stores as well. I guess I can understand business contacts but when I overhear ladies just yapping shit while in line or shopping in the aisles, I just want to take that damn thing away and stomp on it. Are these assholes' (not just ladies) lives so shallow that they must be yapping with someone on the phone in public????

:mad:

Buccaneer

07-20-2004, 07:34 PM

I can't even believe I'm reading this. This is old fogey talk but back in my day I had to climb 5, 6 flights of stairs just to get to the phone. Sometimes with no shoes on...and that's the way it was and we liked it.
Back when I was in school.....awww....nevermind.

Logan

07-20-2004, 07:54 PM

Going as far back as the mid-90's (which was when my brother and sister were in school), I don't understand how college kids survived without the benefits of cell phones/instant messaging. I ask my brother and sister how they managed all the time, and am shocked by how they lived.

I can't imagine having to make plans with a big group of people by calling everyone's dorm phone individually and then deciding on a central meeting place. If one of your buddies didn't show up at the bar at 10, did you just assume they either a. decided not to go out, b. decided to ditch you and go somewhere else, or c. are lying in a ditch somewhere?

Any current college student will be able to tell you the benefits of being able to call your buddies and saying "Don't bother coming, this party sucks," or "Yo, its a great time at this bar, come down."

And good lord what did you people do for booty calls at 2 am when you were loaded?

korme

07-20-2004, 08:10 PM

thank you Logan.

BigJohn&TheLions

07-20-2004, 08:16 PM

From what I have seen they are a convenience to the parent/s. Many parents will drop their kid off at practice and have their kid call them when practice is done, rather than sitting and watching/participating. Also, many parents depend on the cell phone as a way of "keeping up" with their kids.

Why do I picture this scenario:

(cell rings)

Kid: Hi Mom.

Mom: Hey, what you doing?

Kid: Nothing.

Mom: How are you doing in school?

Kid: Mom... I"M IN THE LIVING ROOM. I CAN HEAR YOU WITHOUT THE PHONE!!!

Buccaneer

07-20-2004, 08:17 PM

Ben E Lou

07-20-2004, 08:20 PM

Logan and as usually, Shorty, are some of the assholes I was referring to.You just said the magic words.

JeeberD

07-20-2004, 08:22 PM

:eek:

Whoa...

MrIllini

07-20-2004, 08:41 PM

Can ANYONE give me a legitimate reason why a middle school kid needs to have a mobile phone?

so that his teacher can get ahold of him and arrange a good boning

Suicane75

07-20-2004, 08:43 PM

so that his teacher can get ahold of him and arrange a good boning

Gold.

Ben E Lou

07-20-2004, 08:46 PM

so that his teacher can get ahold of him and arrange a good boningWell played.

MrIllini

07-20-2004, 08:47 PM

:) I was quite surprised to read the whole thread and not already see it

JAG

07-20-2004, 08:49 PM

so that his teacher can get ahold of him and arrange a good boning

There is really no need for further posts after that one...unless more people want to chime in about it being a good one. :)

Barkeep49

07-20-2004, 10:08 PM

Logan and as usually, Shorty, are some of the assholes I was referring to. I'll give you kids a hint that might pay off when you grow up: a) plan better and b) life is inconvenient at times, deal with it.
Plan better? What's wrong with their planning? They're planning differently than you. And inconvience is something to be cherished? Unless you are Amish, or the like (a lifestyle which I can respect since they are among the happiest people in the US), I think you're making a faulty argument.

Further, to return to the initial issue, I think there is nothing wrong with middle schoolers having one. There is also nothing wrong with adults telling them to put it away. But if it is a status symbol/sign of sophistication, as SD suggests and I agree, then it's a pretty harmless one. I'd rather see every kid I work with have a cell phone than try to be sophisticated in other ways, such as skanky dressing, on the harmless side, to taking up tabacco, on the more insiduous side.

Logan

07-20-2004, 10:10 PM

Logan and as usually, Shorty, are some of the assholes I was referring to. I'll give you kids a hint that might pay off when you grow up: a) plan better and b) life is inconvenient at times, deal with it.

While I think its funny that you got thrown in the box for this, let me address this issue as if you didn't say that magic word (and SkyDog, if you don't want me responding to this, feel free to delete it--no hard feelings). You can respond once you're out of the can.

How am I being an a-hole (like that SD :D ) if I try and stay in contact with my friends through a night out? I don't know where (or if) you went to college, but Rutgers is a big place, with tons of different bars/frats/houses where people are always hanging out and partying. I have a large group of friends who bounce around between said places on any given night. It's a great advantage to be able to use a cell phone to get in contact with a bunch of people throughout the night, to find out if there's something cool going on that the people I'm with are not aware of.

As for your hint, I apologize for liking the fact that I can leave my options open. Maybe if people weren't so stubborn in sticking to their "plan" they would be better off in life.

JonInMiddleGA

07-20-2004, 11:05 PM

... when you were loaded?

Let's see here, if your profile (and my math) is accurate, you'll turn 21 in a couple of months.

So basically what you're saying here is that the cell phones are a key component in illegal activities.

Hmm ... I think you just made a great argument for me delaying my kid from getting one anytime soon. Of course, he's just 6, so that wasn't going to happen real quick anyway.

Ben E Lou

07-21-2004, 04:09 AM

Axxon

07-21-2004, 04:23 AM

To clarify, he wasn't thrown in the box for using the word "asshole." He didn't just use the word; he specifically name-called two people in an unprovoked manner. It didn't help his case that he displayed other troll-ish behavior in another thread just a few minutes prior.

I'm glad you clarified this. I thought it was the "asshole" comment and it raised an eyebrow. It didn't make sense with the f*ck thread still standing. Maybe if he'd called them a**holes? I though,t but that seemed a bit silly. I was stumped.

I understand it now after you explained it. :)

Oh, and I haven't come across the other thread yet or maybe I have but didn't notice. ;)

JonInMiddleGA

07-21-2004, 07:18 AM

Oh, and I haven't come across the other thread yet or maybe I have but didn't notice. ;)

Same here.

Logan

07-21-2004, 08:13 AM

Let's see here, if your profile (and my math) is accurate, you'll turn 21 in a couple of months.

So basically what you're saying here is that the cell phones are a key component in illegal activities.

Hmm ... I think you just made a great argument for me delaying my kid from getting one anytime soon. Of course, he's just 6, so that wasn't going to happen real quick anyway.

Actually, my ID says I'll be 22 in a couple of months. But it also says that I'm from NY, when I'm really from Jersey. :)

Underage drinking is prevalent everywhere. I have friends that are a couple years older, and also some that are younger. I've seen plenty of people of legal drinking age do some of the dumbest (and illegal) things. And there are plenty who aren't 21 who drink and are very responsible when they do so.

Want a parenting tip from an underage kid :)? It's inevitable that your kid will come in contact with others drinking underage (hopefully not for 10+ years of course). Trust him to make the right decisions until he proves that he doesn't deserve your trust. My parents never had a problem if I came home in high school with alcohol on my breath as long as A. I wasn't driving, B. They knew where I was going, and who with, before I went out, and C. I didn't lie about it. As long as I followed those rules, they felt safe for me, and were able to sleep at night.

Senator

07-21-2004, 08:18 AM

Heh. Buzzbee beat me to it. What he said.

Incidentally, I'm wide open for lunch the rest of this week and can meet you somewhere near your office. Let me know what might work.

Call him on his cell phone.

JonInMiddleGA

07-21-2004, 08:20 AM

And there are plenty who aren't 21 who drink and are very responsible when they do so.

Apparently you & I have dramatically different definitions of "responsible" -- willfully engaging in criminal activity doesn't really fit mine.

Samdari

07-21-2004, 09:00 AM

I can't imagine having to make plans with a big group of people by calling everyone's dorm phone individually and then deciding on a central meeting place.

I am going to give you a shocking piece of information. Placing a call from a land line to a land line takes no more time or effort than placing one from a cell phone to a cell phone. Arranging for 10 people to meet someplace is no harder using this 'obselete' technology.

And good lord what did you people do for booty calls at 2 am when you were loaded?

Umm, since generally the actual booty call was more successful if the girl was actually in her room, I think this was easier using land lines.

rkmsuf

07-21-2004, 09:02 AM

it's like before the cell phone life was so inconveinient. how did man survive? it's like when we invented fire.

Samdari

07-21-2004, 09:04 AM

It's a great advantage to be able to use a cell phone to get in contact with a bunch of people throughout the night.

Another thing. Develop enough self confidence to not fear your entire 'rep' being ruined if you miss one event the masses consider cool. THAT will make your life better - for the rest of your life, not just your young years - than any one or series of social events that occur while you are young.

Barkeep49

07-21-2004, 09:28 AM

Logan while I am with you about the cell phone things, you are completely off base about drinking in high school. First of all the teenage brain and the adult brain are not the same. Teenagers who drink, even moderately, make it harder for themselves to learn even when they haven't had anything to drink. Further, alchoal doesn't sedate teens as much as it does adults leading teens to feel more confident than they should be about pursuing activities, even if it isn't driving, while being intoxicated. PET scans have shown that teenagers have enough chemicals which naturally block their ability to make good decisions, thye certainly don't need an additional drug to help them along. Not to mention that 40% of those who start drinking by age 15 become alchoalics, and 90% of alchoalics started drinking by age 18.

I think the much larger problem among teenagers today is how few of them know what to do when bored. They are so used to stimulation, and at least with the middle class, always having a full schedule, they never learned as kids how to handle boredom. While all of the statistics I quoted above are from the NIH, I will say that from my experience it seems as though 95% of kids who start using alchoal/drugs do so because of boredom.

Subby

07-21-2004, 09:43 AM

I graduated from college a long time ago - 1993 to be exact - so I can remember a time when we had one phone for my whole freshman hall and during my sophomore year, one phone in my fraternity house. Eventually, we got phones and voice mail in our rooms. Looking back on it now, it seems crazy - but back then none of us really gave it a second thought. We went out drinking all the time, stopping by dorms and fraternity and sorrority houses to pick people up and bring them along. We knocked on doors, made phone calls, left messages. Rarely did we ever all start out in one massive group at the beginning of the evening. A lot of times a night would start with just 2 or 3 of us splitting a pitcher early in the evening. As the night wore on, folks just showed up...and if they didn't, they didn't. Half the fun was running into each other next day and swapping stories of the previous evening.

I went to a fairly small school (I think there were ~5000 kids there when I attended) and the drinking possibilities were limited to the fraternities and probably 4 or 5 bars/delis. I don't know - I am not passing judgement on new types of communication, I just don't remember *needing* them back in the day.

One day your kids will probably stare at you increduously when you tell them that The Matrix started as an idea in a movie ;)

Samdari

07-21-2004, 10:53 AM

One day your kids will probably stare at you increduously when you tell them that The Matrix started as an idea in a movie ;)

LOL, did it? Or did it reveal to us the truth about our own "lives"?

Franklinnoble

07-21-2004, 11:23 AM

:eek:

Whoa...
My sentiments exactly... for some reason, I just never would have figured Bucc as a candidate for the penalty box.

Daimyo

07-21-2004, 01:54 PM

I have to carry a cell phone and pager for work and there is no way I would carry either if I didn't have to, but some of you luddites are hilarious. Just because kids do things different than you did when you were young doesn't necessarily mean their way is worse. What's the big deal if high school and college kids set up activities via cell phone as long as they don't use them to do anything harmful to themselves or others?

rkmsuf

07-21-2004, 01:57 PM

Daimyo

07-21-2004, 01:58 PM

Franklinnoble

07-21-2004, 02:00 PM

Just wondering... how many minutes do you get for calling Shorty an asshole?

**note to SD... I'm not calling anyone an asshole... just wondering is all...I don't need you to SHOW me how many minutes you get for calling Shorty an asshole.**

**note to Shorty... this is not some veiled attempt to call you an asshole...**

Radii

07-21-2004, 02:05 PM

DOLA, and to Bucc's comment about using it in a supermarket... there are times on my way home from work where I stop at the grocery store and make a quick call to my wife to see if she needs anything while I'm there. Would it be more honorable if I just did without? What's the point of that when I have the ability to do it and it doesn't harm anyone else at all? Its especially strange to hear that sort of complaint coming from a libertarian... *shurg*

Nah, I don't have a problem with that, and I do that all the time myself. What I don't understand is how so many people view the cell phone as a *must have* that they couldn't live without, and not simply a convienance. Really, without my cell phone, I'd just be extra careful to find out all the details about what I was supposed to pick up when I went to the grocery store. Instead, I get the general idea and when I'm looking at the 5 different types of onions they sell at the store and have no idea which one I'm supposed to get, I hop on the cell phone.

But I surely could live without it if necessary :)

Ksyrup

07-21-2004, 02:05 PM

To clarify, he wasn't thrown in the box for using the word "asshole." He didn't just use the word; he specifically name-called two people in an unprovoked manner. It didn't help his case that he displayed other troll-ish behavior in another thread just a few minutes prior.
Looks like I missed this thread last night. Ar first, I thought the "magic words" were his incorrect usage of "usually" in the middle of the sentence. Thanks for setting the record straight.

I didn't get a cell phone until I left the state and got a real job. Very necessary. My wife already had one, in case of an emergency with our daughter. And for the same reason, I'm glad I also have one, in case something happens and she needs to get a hold of me. Since it's available, why not take advantage of it?

My phone's always on vibrate. For you.

rkmsuf

07-21-2004, 02:09 PM

My phone's always on vibrate. For her pleasure.

Well isn't that thoughtful.

Ksyrup

07-21-2004, 02:12 PM

My phone's on vibrate for you
Electroclash is karioke too
I try to dance Britney Spears
I guess I'm getting on in years

My phone's on vibrate for you
God knows what all these new drugs do
I guess to have no more fears
But still I always end up in tears

My phone's on vibrate for you
But still I never ever feel from you
Pinocchio's now a boy
Who wants to turn back into a toy

So call me
Call me in the morning
Call me in the night
So call me
Call me anytime you like

My phone's on vibrate for you
For you

Ben E Lou

07-21-2004, 02:17 PM

Nah, I don't have a problem with that, and I do that all the time myself. What I don't understand is how so many people view the cell phone as a *must have* that they couldn't live without, and not simply a convienance. Really, without my cell phone, I'd just be extra careful to find out all the details about what I was supposed to pick up when I went to the grocery store. Instead, I get the general idea and when I'm looking at the 5 different types of onions they sell at the store and have no idea which one I'm supposed to get, I hop on the cell phone.

But I surely could live without it if necessary :)Bingo. Exact same here. Because I have it with me, I don't make a point to be sure to write everything down, memorize the details, or call her before I leave the office like I would have before I had one. My guess is that 75% or more of the SkyDog-Mrs.SkyDog or Mrs.SkyDog-SkyDog mobile phone calls happen when one of us is in the grocery store. It is a convenience, not a necessity.

Franklinnoble

07-21-2004, 02:19 PM

Hey, as long as people don't use their cell phones in the bathroom, I don't have a problem...

Ksyrup

07-21-2004, 02:25 PM

Hey, as long as people don't use their cell phones in the bathroom, I don't have a problem...
Now THAT I love. Seriously. Ordinarily, if someone is using the phone in the bathroom, they're not exactly trying to broadcast it to the person they're talking to. Knowing that, is there anything better than sitting next to one of these guys and letting rip? Truly an entertaining experience.

hhiipp

07-21-2004, 02:34 PM

I view my phone completely as a luxury and not a necessity. It makes some things more convenient when used properly and not abused like many people.

The thing I find most offensive about phones is the ones with the walkie talkie feature where everyone within a 1 block radius can hear you because they are so obnoxiously loud.

korme

07-21-2004, 02:41 PM

Apparently you & I have dramatically different definitions of "responsible" -- willfully engaging in criminal activity doesn't really fit mine.
you sound like my mom Jon. Are you telling me you never drank before 18 (when that age was legal), or smoked a cigarrette or cigar before 18? And if you didn't, you're in the minority.

Franklinnoble

07-21-2004, 02:45 PM

you sound like my mom Jon...
Well, they HAVE spent a lot of time together...

korme

07-21-2004, 02:53 PM

Hey, as long as people don't use their cell phones in the bathroom, I don't have a problem...
I can guarantee a call in the middle of the day from my best friend atleast 3-4 times a week... it goes something like this.

"Hey, guess what I'm doin"

"Shittin, man you always call me when your shittin'"

*plop* "Did you hear that?"

We have an interesting friendship.

rkmsuf

07-21-2004, 02:59 PM

that seems perfectly normal

Buzzbee

07-21-2004, 03:05 PM

I can guarantee a call in the middle of the day from my best friend atleast 3-4 times a week... it goes something like this.

"Hey, guess what I'm doin"

"Shittin, man you always call me when your shittin'"

*plop* "Did you hear that?"

We have an interesting friendship.

The prosecution rests, your honor.

rkmsuf

07-21-2004, 03:06 PM

Samdari

07-21-2004, 03:09 PM

The prosecution rests, your honor.

Yes, outstanding argument on the necesity of cell phones Shorty.

Ben E Lou

07-21-2004, 03:10 PM

"When you think of garbage, think of Akeem."Nice!

hhiipp

07-21-2004, 03:13 PM

Yes, outstanding argument on the necesity of cell phones Shorty.
This guy could be calling from a cordless phone. . . surely you wouldn't waste your minutes to tell someone about the corn in your feces.

Samdari

07-21-2004, 03:16 PM

This guy could be calling from a cordless phone. . . surely you wouldn't waste your minutes to tell someone about the corn in your feces.

From one of the guys that was arguing that it was stupid to use anything but cell phones, I assumed this was a cell to cell call.

korme

07-21-2004, 03:44 PM

Yes, outstanding argument on the necesity of cell phones Shorty.
Nope, we use the old house phones for those calls..

cell phones still kick ass though, back on topic?

korme

07-21-2004, 03:45 PM

From one of the guys that was arguing that it was stupid to use anything but cell phones, I assumed this was a cell to cell call.
When did I say that? Are you drunk?

Logan

07-21-2004, 06:29 PM

When I was on the board a couple hours ago, I spent about 20 minutes writing a response to both Jon in GA and Samdari. I hit submit, and got a message about some damn database error, and my post was gone. I'm not going to go through the trouble of typing that whole thing up again, so I'll just sum up my stance as quickly as possible.

If "growing up" means I will end up being as narrow-minded as some of you, I'd rather stay the way I am.

JonInMiddleGA

07-21-2004, 06:42 PM

you sound like my mom Jon. Are you telling me you never drank before 18 (when that age was legal), or smoked a cigarrette or cigar before 18? And if you didn't, you're in the minority.

I didn't pick up smoking at all until I was 19 or 20 (only non-smoker & one of only two men in a hen house of an office with 17 women). I've made up for lost time since then to be sure, but I wasn't really around anybody who smoked so it wasn't really something I gave much thought.

I had a grand total of 1 drink prior to age 21, and that consisted of a decent sized shot of homemade apple brandy. There too, I've certainly made up for lost time, but the risk of going to jail or worse outweighed any desire I had to give it a whirl.

Axxon

07-21-2004, 06:57 PM

JonInMiddleGA

07-21-2004, 07:04 PM

If "growing up" means I will end up being as narrow-minded as some of you, I'd rather stay the way I am.

Yes sir, that's me. What on earth was I thinking, respecting the law & such. Such a narrow-minded bastard I am. :rolleyes:

Staying "the way you are" is a luxury that accompanies childhood. When you're an adult, those luxuries tend to become fewer & farther between. Enjoy it while you can.

korme

07-21-2004, 07:09 PM

Jon, I don't put myself into situations where I can get in trouble by the law. Ok, I have, but I know the risks and am ready to take proper action (need it be running, or getting in trouble). But usually I am somewhere where I know I can't get in trouble, and I never get in a car with someone who has been drinking.

JonInMiddleGA

07-21-2004, 07:20 PM

But usually I am somewhere where I know I can't get in trouble, and I never get in a car with someone who has been drinking.

While I applaud you wholeheartedly on your apparent committment to the latter (like many people, I've been to a few hospitals and/or funerals too many that involved underage drinking), I'd still question whether the former is as much a certainty as you seem to believe.

Rather than a lengthy (and fairly obvious IMO) explanation of what I mean, I'll just liken it to running a stop sign at 3 a.m. because "there's nobody around, not a cop in sight". I've known several people who were ticketed moments later.

Samdari

07-21-2004, 07:33 PM

Just curious how thinking that cell phones are a luxury/convenience rather than a necesity makes one in any way narrow minded.

Axxon

07-21-2004, 07:50 PM

[QUOTE=JonInMiddleGA]While I applaud you wholeheartedly on your apparent committment to the latter (like many people, I've been to a few hospitals and/or funerals too many that involved underage drinking), I'd still question whether the former is as much a certainty as you seem to believe.
[QUOTE]

Lets not stop at underaged Jon though I've seen my share of that. I've worked in our er here and I sincerely believe that as part of any drunk driving conviction you must do community service in the er. If that doesn't stop you from drinking and driving then I'm fine with life behind bars for the second offense.

Logan

07-21-2004, 09:42 PM

Yes sir, that's me. What on earth was I thinking, respecting the law & such. Such a narrow-minded bastard I am. :rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you want. I'll just go on assuming that you've never driven even a mile over the speed limit, went thru a yellow light when it would have been easier for you to stop, changed lanes without signaling, or consumed an alcoholic beverage before turning 21 years of age. Oh yeah...you've already admitted to doing that. Which makes you a hypocrite. Maybe it only happened once, but all it takes is one mistake to kill an innocent person in a car accident.

Go on with your perfect, law-abiding life.

Just curious how thinking that cell phones are a luxury/convenience rather than a necesity makes one in any way narrow minded.

That doesn't make you narrow-minded at all. As I've said...I consider my cell phone a convenience. I use it when it is convenient for me, whenever that is (except in situations I outlined in my last post--in the car, at dinner, etc). It's not a necessity--only food, water, and shelter are. But there are tons of things we utilize in life because they are convenient to us.

The narrow-mindedness comes to play when you say things like how I don't have "enough self confidence to not fear [my] entire 'rep' being ruined if [I] miss one event the masses consider cool" if you think that is why I use my cell to stay in touch with my friends throughout the night. As I said before, I had a whole response to this exact quote, but that went right out the damn window with that BS database error or whatever it was. So...to save ourselves some time, let's just chalk this one up to you not knowing a damn thing about me, and vice versa...okay?

mauchow

07-21-2004, 10:31 PM

I shall now join this conversation.

My cell phone is now my primary phone. In my apartment of 4 people, all of us use cell phones as our primary phone. As a matter of fact, I'm one of the 2% of the population who doesn't have a land line installed.

It is very handy for me. My parents would always be upset if I wasn't in the room for the 20th time they tried calling.

It's a convenience, not a luxury at this day and age. Think about it. Cell phones have already been around for 15 years. Back when cell phones weighed 10 pounds, it was a luxury. Now, it is getting pretty darn close to being a necesity(not quite!).

What would you call your computer? It's a near necesity again! 15 years ago, a luxury.

Items evolve into necesities over time, and by golly cell phones are pretty close to it. There is no point in arguing why people do this, or why people do that.

EVERYONE hates the person who talks like a maniac while eating dinner in a restaurant. EVERYONE hates the person who uses the walkie talkie style out in the open for everyone to hear(my roomate being one of them.. annoying as hell). EVERYONE hates those obnoxious rings that are so annoying(especially when they let it ring so they can hear the whole tune).

*not everyone hates these things, but I'm just pointing them out..*

One day everyone is going to complain why that guy is driving a car that runs on gas. Stupid idiot!

Samdari

07-22-2004, 07:38 AM

The narrow-mindedness comes to play when you say things like how I don't have "enough self confidence to not fear [my] entire 'rep' being ruined if [I] miss one event the masses consider cool" if you think that is why I use my cell to stay in touch with my friends throughout the night.

I think that because you said it.

It's a great advantage to be able to use a cell phone to get in contact with a bunch of people throughout the night, to find out if there's something cool going on that the people I'm with are not aware of.

Honolulu Blue

07-22-2004, 09:59 AM

Interesting discussion. I'm on the right end of the FOFC age bell curve, and I'm definitely from the old school in regards to cell phones - never had one, don't want one, have no current plans to get one, wouldn't know what to do with one if I had one, would probably use one (occasionally) if it were free, but wouldn't bother if it were merely almost free.

That said, I'm not hostile to them, and I understand that others need or want them much more than I do.

mauboy1 made a good point in that I, too, see my computer(s) as indispensible, and yet I lived without one for over half my life. It seemed like a different world then.

Anyway, I'll certainly consider a cell phone as my primary (and only) phone if I move from where I am now. But only if the following apply:

1) I can call anyone, anywhere, anytime
2) I don't have to pay for incoming calls
3) I don't have to overpay for outgoing calls
4) There's a backup plan if the battery goes dead (voice mail, 2nd battery, or 2nd phone)
5) It would cost no more than a corresponding land line

I haven't researched it lately, but I don't think cell phones are all the way there yet. Maybe in a few years.

Anyway, on SkyDog's original point, middle schoolers don't really need a cell phone. But as mentioned elsewhere, there are at least three reasons why they might have one:

1) It's easy for parents to check up on their kids,
2) It's available in case of emergencies, and
3) It's kind of a status symbol for the kids.

dawgfan

07-22-2004, 01:34 PM

Cell-phones are without question a convenience, and for people in certain careers a requirement in order to stay employed. I was someone that had a bad attitude about cell-phones for many years, but my stance softened enough to where I finally gave in and bought one about 4 years ago. After enjoying the benefits of convenience of a cell-phone, I wouldn't want to go back.

I think the key issue here isn't so much ownership of a cell-phone, but how one uses said phone. Like most people, I find it extremely rude when people yap away on their cell-phones in public places like restaurants, buses, etc. I'm more tolerant of use in stores depending on the situation - is it a quick call to verify what someone is looking for, or a loud, prolonged social call? I've had arguments on this board before about cell-phone use while driving, but I will agree there are many times when this is a bad idea.

On the other hand, the convenience of being able reach people when you're not at a land line is quite nice. I also appreciate the fact that my phone also acts as a portable phone book, calender and watch. I love the ability to coordinate social activities on the fly, and to be able to warn people that are expecting me that I may be delayed. I appreciated having my phone when I had car troubles and needed information.

As for the specific topic, middle-schoolers and cell-phones, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I can appreciate that it allows some freedom for kids to be able to call parents for a ride or for parents to be able to directly contact kids in an emergency.

On the other hand, why wouldn't a pager work? If a parent needs to contact the kid, a pager will do so and the kid can then use a phone in the school offices. Not to mention plenty of other issues - what would you do as a teacher in a school where kids had cell-phones? You'd probably make rules that phones are to be turned off or at least turn the ringers off, and no answering or making calls during class, but you know there would be some little bastards that defied the rule causing yet another potential source of classroom disruption. Add in the potential for the phones themselves to be a source of conflict between kids - phones might get stolen, either permanently or as a way to tease a kid. Not to mention, at that age most kids do a lot of running around during recess - what happens to the phone during play time?

I think if it were me as a parent, I'd get my kid a pager but tell them a phone has to wait until they graduate from high school (unless they pay for it themselves).

JonInMiddleGA

07-22-2004, 01:50 PM

Sidebar please:

Not to mention, at that age most kids do a lot of running around during recess - what happens to the phone during play time?

There are still middle schools that have recess?

(I believe 3rd grade is the final year where the traditional free-play recess continues at my son's school, might be 2nd grade, I'm not sure. Somewhere along that grade level though, it's replaced completely by structured P.E. classes, which actually begin in Kindergarten).

Raven

07-22-2004, 05:10 PM

Please circle the answer that mostly correctly corresponds to you:

I do not have a cell phone because
a) I dont have any friends
b) I am antisocial
c) nobody calls me anyway
or (specifically for Buc)
d) I am stuck in the past, and think the "way things were" are the best and only way

Schmidty

07-22-2004, 05:17 PM

e) am poor and have a family to support

dawgfan

07-22-2004, 05:20 PM

Sidebar please:

There are still middle schools that have recess?

(I believe 3rd grade is the final year where the traditional free-play recess continues at my son's school, might be 2nd grade, I'm not sure. Somewhere along that grade level though, it's replaced completely by structured P.E. classes, which actually begin in Kindergarten).

You're right - recess was an elementary school thing. At my middle school though, most kids ate their lunch quickly and then spent the rest of their lunch hour outside playing on the fields or socializing.

JonInMiddleGA

07-22-2004, 06:28 PM

You're right - recess was an elementary school thing. At my middle school though, most kids ate their lunch quickly and then spent the rest of their lunch hour outside playing on the fields or socializing.

Interesting, thanks for the clarify.

And, while we're skimming across the subject, I think lunch here is down to 20 minutes for most (if not all) of the grades.

Barkeep49

07-22-2004, 06:33 PM

I think the fact that recess has disappeared at elementary schools is one of the most apalling trends in education today. Besides the fact that kids need lots of time to run around, unstructured free time for kids is under assualt today and it's terrible since they learn so much through those sort of interactions.

Logan

07-22-2004, 06:44 PM

I think that because you said it.

Sorry, but when I wrote that, I didn't intend "something cool going on" to mean "something that the 'popular' crowd is involved in," which is how you made me sound.

Samdari

07-22-2004, 07:04 PM

Sorry, but when I wrote that, I didn't intend "something cool going on" to mean "something that the 'popular' crowd is involved in," which is how you made me sound.

That is the traditional interpretation of 'cool' is it not?

Logan

07-22-2004, 08:18 PM

Cool = something I would enjoy doing.

I can't believe this has evolved into a discussion on semantics just because you're pissed that you're getting old.

cuervo72

07-22-2004, 08:44 PM

Cool = something I would enjoy doing.

I can't believe this has evolved into a discussion on semantics just because you're pissed that you're getting old.

And you aren't planning on getting old?

(I don't think most of us are "pissed that we're getting old"...I think we're more of the opinion of "those dumbasses...we've already been there, yet they think they're the first ones going through these things and are the first ones to ever have these views". Same shit, different year, different generation. And X years from now, you all will be in the exact same boat.)

Subby

07-22-2004, 08:45 PM

Cool = something I would enjoy doing.

I can't believe this has evolved into a discussion on semantics just because you're pissed that you're getting old.Hey - if you were as old as Samdari you'd be angry and bitter, too...

:D

Ragone

07-22-2004, 08:54 PM

you sound like my mom Jon. Are you telling me you never drank before 18 (when that age was legal), or smoked a cigarrette or cigar before 18? And if you didn't, you're in the minority.

Shorty, i'm 27.. and in my entire life i've never drank/smoked.. it's a lifestyle choice, and i assure you the minority is bigger then you think.. people still do wait till they are legal.. Of course in kc getting busted with alcohol when you are under 21 results in liscense lost till your 21.. so thats' curtailed it quite a bit..

Another thought, Germany has no legal age limits.. kids can order beers with their happy meals at mcdonalds.. However, that same system would never work in america. The First year fatalities from 16 year old drunk drivers who can easily acquire beer would be staggering

Logan

07-22-2004, 09:36 PM

And you aren't planning on getting old?

(I don't think most of us are "pissed that we're getting old"...I think we're more of the opinion of "those dumbasses...we've already been there, yet they think they're the first ones going through these things and are the first ones to ever have these views". Same shit, different year, different generation. And X years from now, you all will be in the exact same boat.)

It was a joke. Ha, Ha....ha?

Tough crowd.

SunDancer

07-22-2004, 11:07 PM

Just curious about the Middle School kids, wouldn't you have alittle hard time letting your child (and they still are children) be out of the eye of adult supervision? If so, then wouldn't the adult have the phone, squashing the argument of they need a cell phone. The thing I hate about cell phones is that they are more then cell phones today. They got cameras, instant messaging, and all that crap. Makes me wonder if our society has become lazy.

dawgfan

07-23-2004, 12:38 AM

The thing I hate about cell phones is that they are more then cell phones today. They got cameras, instant messaging, and all that crap. Makes me wonder if our society has become lazy.

Good point - not just cameras and instant messaging, but games and internet connections as well. The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that if I were a middle-school teacher, I'd ban cell-phones from my classroom. If you have a cell-phone, it gets turned-off and placed in a box on my desk for the duration of class. If a parent needs to get a hold of their child, call the damn school office like people have done for countless decades before cell-phones.

Pagers I might allow, but it would depend on how they ended up being used...

Barkeep49

07-23-2004, 03:10 AM

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that if I were a middle-school teacher, I'd ban cell-phones from my classroom...Pagers I might allow, but it would depend on how they ended up being used...
Any school I have known anything about at the bare minimum bans use of cell phones/pagers while on school property. In Illinois until very recently it was actually against the law to even have a cell phone or pager on school property. Having been in a half dozen schools or so schools in the past couple of years, in a couple of states and a variety of economic conditions, I can assure you that it's a big deal when a kid gets caught using a cell phone or pager.

Just curious about the Middle School kids, wouldn't you have alittle hard time letting your child (and they still are children) be out of the eye of adult supervision?

Many parents do have a hard time which is why they tether their kids with cell phones. In my experience most parents think, and this is a good thing, that their kids are good kids and are responsible. And quite frankly kids are old enough to go out without adult supervision. Of course the inverse law of brains go into effect. This "law", which I first heard from a principal and strongly believe, states that with one middle schooler you have one pretty responsible brain. However, for each middle schooler in a group the collective brain is the inverse of the number of kids (2 kids means each kid only has 1/4 of a brain each). A large group of middle schoolers is likely to come up with some very dumb ideas. But anyhow the core idea is that most middle schoolers can, and in fact should be, trusted to not always be around an adult. Of course it's far far better for them to spend as much time as possible in situtations that are adult supervised.

Hope this post makes some sense.

Samdari

07-23-2004, 06:55 AM

Cool = something I would enjoy doing.

I can't believe this has evolved into a discussion on semantics just because you're pissed that you're getting old.

What cuervo said.

Plus:

I am not pissed I am getting old at all. In fact I am quite happy I have a loving wife, a baby on the way, and enough money to buy anything I want.

I am also happy that I am not so insecure that I am a slave to my cell phone due to a paralyzing fear of missing something 'cool'. If that's not you, congratulations, you are in the minority of young people with cell phones.

dawgfan

07-23-2004, 01:16 PM

I am also happy that I am not so insecure that I am a slave to my cell phone due to a paralyzing fear of missing something 'cool'. If that's not you, congratulations, you are in the minority of young people with cell phones.

As a 34 year old, let me offer a defense for Logan - you in particular seem to be latching on to his use of the word 'cool' and using your own interpretation of what that word meant in his original statement.

Where in the hell do you get from his statements that he's a "slave" to his cell-phone? Seems to me you're operating off your own obvious dislike of cell-phones and ascribing feelings to Logan that aren't there. Where was he describing a "paralyzing fear" of missing something cool?

He describes going out with his buddies, using cell-phones to coordinate plans on the fly, and liking the ability to adjust those plans during the course of the evening if something particularly fun was going on somewhere else. If he didn't have his cell-phone, he could probably still organize meeting with his buds, but he might miss out on other opportunities that arise in the course of the evening. Is this a big deal? No, obviously not, but on the other hand why shouldn't he have the opportunity to find out about them by having a cell-phone?

People have talked about how when they were in school, cell-phones weren't around and yet you still had fun and could communicate with friends via land lines and pay phones. Sure, but why does that invalidate the convenience that cell-phones provide? I'm sure old-timers said the same thing about telephones when they were first invented too.

Now, if you want to get in a discussion about rude cell-phone users, I'm all for it - I think there is some definite lag between the introduction of new technologies and the establishment of common courtesies in using them, something that is only going to get worse as the pace of new technologies continues to escalate at an exponential rate.

Samdari

07-23-2004, 02:07 PM

Where in the hell do you get from his statements that he's a "slave" to his cell-phone? .

From things like this:

If he didn't have his cell-phone... he might miss out on other opportunities that arise in the course of the evening.

What would be so bad about missing out on these other opportunities?

Despite people thinking it is a semantic issue, it is not. No matter how you explain it, it sounds like people afraid of being left out. In fact, each time someone attempts to re-cast it into new words, it makes it clearer to me that that is the case. They probably do not even realize it (the young are generally not cursed with self-awareness) but that is a fear they certainly possess.

I don't think this makes anyone a bad person, and certainly am not bothered that they have it - as everyone seems to think I am. I merely suggest that they will be happier once they move into adult life if they conquer that fear.

rkmsuf

07-23-2004, 02:09 PM

From things like this:

What would be so bad about missing out on these other opportunities?

Despite people thinking it is a semantic issue, it is not. No matter how you explain it, it sounds like people afraid of being left out. In fact, each time someone attempts to re-cast it into new words, it makes it clearer to me that that is the case. They probably do not even realize it (the young are generally not cursed with self-awareness) but that is a fear they certainly possess.

I don't think this makes anyone a bad person, and certainly am not bothered that they have it - as everyone seems to think I am. I merely suggest that they will be happier once they move into adult life if they conquer that fear.

I would agree with this. The visual is of someone with some binky. I'd wager if they forgot the phone they'd be checking voice mail repeatedly with someone else's phone.

Logan

07-23-2004, 02:24 PM

From things like this:

What would be so bad about missing out on these other opportunities?

Despite people thinking it is a semantic issue, it is not. No matter how you explain it, it sounds like people afraid of being left out. In fact, each time someone attempts to re-cast it into new words, it makes it clearer to me that that is the case. They probably do not even realize it (the young are generally not cursed with self-awareness) but that is a fear they certainly possess.

I don't think this makes anyone a bad person, and certainly am not bothered that they have it - as everyone seems to think I am. I merely suggest that they will be happier once they move into adult life if they conquer that fear.

Keep perceiving me in any manner you like, and I'll do the same for you.

Daimyo

07-23-2004, 02:37 PM

I think most people given the opportunity would prefer to maximize the amount of "fun" they have during any given time period. The me all it sounds like he's saying is that having the cell phone gives him the opportunity to increase the amount of fun he has on average by increasing the opportunities to do fun things. He never said that he wouldn't have fun without it or that his life depended on it.

Again, I ask what the hell is wrong with that? It doesn't sound like he's hurting anyone or himself... just sounds like a kid trying to enjoy life as best he knows how. :)

(While I will agree that people at that age generally lack self-confidence and have a strong need to "fit in" and prove themselves I just don't see how the cell phone has anything really do with that.... its been that way far before they were invented and it will be that way long after they're obsolete)

Samdari

07-23-2004, 02:48 PM

While I will agree that people at that age generally lack self-confidence and have a strong need to "fit in" and prove themselves I just don't see how the cell phone has anything really do with that.... its been that way far before they were invented and it will be that way long after they're obsolete

Oh, I agree with you there. Needing to take the cell phone with you so as to not miss the next, best opportunity is a symptom, not the problem. Notice that the post that precipitated this firestorm emphasizes being confident enough not to feel like you'll be an outcast if you miss one 'best opportunity' rather than telling them to put down their cell phones.

What's wrong with it? RIght now, nothing particularly. Later, when the types of social opportunities are not there, and they feel like they are missing something because they are not having them, that's a different story.

Keep perceiving me in any manner you like, and I'll do the same for you.

As long as you keep confirming my perceptions like this, I will, Champ.

Daimyo

07-23-2004, 02:55 PM

What's wrong with it? RIght now, nothing particularly. Later, when the types of social opportunities are not there, and they feel like they are missing something because they are not having them, that's a different story.

I'm sure they'll be fine. Every generation always thinks the next one is going to ruin everything, but somehow it all works out. I'm sure your parent's generation could have had the same argument replacing "cell phone" whatever was the fad-of-the-day was when you were in school...

cuervo72

07-23-2004, 03:00 PM

I thought the Baby Boomer generation was ruining everything?

korme

07-23-2004, 04:11 PM

Good point - not just cameras and instant messaging, but games and internet connections as well. The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that if I were a middle-school teacher, I'd ban cell-phones from my classroom. If you have a cell-phone, it gets turned-off and placed in a box on my desk for the duration of class. If a parent needs to get a hold of their child, call the damn school office like people have done for countless decades before cell-phones.

Pagers I might allow, but it would depend on how they ended up being used...
Even in High School, there were signs all over the place that if cell phones were heard or seen they could be taken by the teach.

dawgfan

07-23-2004, 05:40 PM

What would be so bad about missing out on these other opportunities?

You're right - people should go through life consciously avoiding things that may add to their enjoyment. Life is supposed to be dull and boring, and anything one does to try and have more fun and to maximize pleasure is just setting themselves up for disappointment. Just keep telling yourself that and it might be true (for you at least).

And what the hell is up with the condescending attitude exposed in quotes like this?

Develop enough self confidence to not fear your entire 'rep' being ruined if you miss one event the masses consider cool.

What an incredibly arrogant reading of what Logan wrote - does it occur to you that it has nothing to do at all with 'rep' or 'being cool', but instead is all about the opportunity to experience something more interesting or fun that what you're doing at the moment?

Subby mentioned how back in his day in college (which would've been around my day as well) half the fun was swapping stories with buddies you missed the night before. Maybe, but I ask - weren't there a lot of times you heard stories from your buddies about what they did where you thought to yourself "damn, I wish I'd been there - that would've been a lot more fun and interesting than what I ended up doing..."

cuervo72

07-24-2004, 09:27 PM

Hmm...that would certainly overestimate my buddies.

Cringer

07-24-2004, 11:31 PM

I don't know, at the risk of being called an asshole, I feel I need a cell phone. I tried the payphone from the truck stop thing, it blows when you can't get a parking spot and have to rush because you are at the fuel island, and even with calling cards it got pretty damn expensive........

Passacaglia

07-25-2004, 09:04 AM

Just wondering... how many minutes do you get for calling Shorty an asshole?

400 daytime, unlimited nights and weekends?

Ben E Lou

09-23-2004, 08:20 AM

In smaller towns, maybe, but keep in mind that I live in metro Atlanta, and in a subdivision-heavy area. Even the parents who are lenient enough to let their kids have a cell phone wouldn't let them ride a bike very far at all. In the huge majority of cases in my particular corner of metro Atlanta, you're in easy walking distance of everyone in your own subdivision, and in order to get to even the next subdivision over, you'd have to ride your bike on a high-traffic street. Furthermore, virtually every neighborhood that isn't a "No Outlet" is used as a cut-through for vehicular traffic to at least some degree. I've lived in the Tucker/Lakeside community since 1996, and I'm not sure I've ever seen a kid on a bike outside of their own neighborhood. For that matter, I've probably seen less than 10 kids on bikes ANYWHERE other than at a park during that 8 years. At my junior high, there were 8-10 racks where we could chain up our bicycles during the school day. The brand new Tucker Middle School, which opens its doors for the first time ever this year, doesn't have a single one put in yet, and I doubt they will.Update to this: I just heard a comment that Atlanta is generally considered one of the most bicycle-unfriendly cities in the nation.

I just heard