The Randy Johnson Debacle

[Ksyrup]

Has anyone gone from revered to dickhead as quickly as Randy Johnson? If any of these reports are accurate, he's becoming known as The Big Unit for an entirely different reason.

He's frustrated with losing. Fine. He wants a trade, ostensibly to help Arizona as well as provide himself with an opportunity to win another World Series. Fine. Then, he decides he only wants to play for one team. OK, now he's made it a bit more difficult for his team to get anything of value for him by at least not pretending to be amenable to playing anywhere else. Next, his agent threatens that if he's not traded to NY, he'll become a clubhouse disruption. Nice attitude, Mr. I Want to Help My Team So Trade Me. On top of that, he's not only demanding a trade to the Yankees, but also wants that trade to occur before Friday, so he doesn't have to pitch for the DBacks on Friday, which is his next turn in the rotation.

What in the hell has gotten into this guy? I'm telling you, I'll become a DBacks fan for life if Colangelo and Garigiola hold onto the guy, and at least wait until the offseason to deal him. It's one thing to want to get out of a bad situation. It's another to do it in this manner, and to a team with such a short history that he IS the franchise. When it comes down to it, he really doesn't give a crap whether the trade helps the Dbacks, he just wants to better himself at their expense. I know how I'd handle the situation.

[Vince]

It's a real bummer. Especially because he's already got a ring. Now it looks even more selfish.

Not that it'd be ok if he didn't have a ring yet...just a little more understandable.

[CraigSca]

I saw this on ESPN today as well - he's refusing trades to Anaheim and the Dodgers?! C'mon, man! The Angels have an awesome lineup and the Dodgers are in first place!

To hold your team hostage like that I think is ridiculous. They're paying you big bucks and are trying to trade you like you've asked, but don't be a petulant crybaby when you're not sent to the Yankees. It's not like they're trying to dump him in Montreal or something...

[Buzzbee]

D-backs aren't in a playoff run. I'd keep him, and bench his ass.

[CraigSca]

D-backs aren't in a playoff run. I'd keep him, and bench his ass.

But first change his position to center.

[Ksyrup]

I wouldn't bench him, but maybe I start a lineup full of rookies whenever he pitches. Then again, that's about all that's left on the roster, isn't it?

[Buzzbee]

Actually, what I would do is change him to a punter first, then release him.http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif (http://java_script_:emoticon(':twisted:')/)



{EDIT: DAMN! CraigSca beat me to it!}

[Vince]

Having been at the game on Sunday, I got a first hand look at how ridiculously frustrating it must be to be Randy Johnson. After 8 innings of shutout, 6-hit ball, the Diamondbacks get a 1-0 lead in the bottom of the 8th and Johnson is lifted for a pinch hitter. The top of the ninth comes, and Johnson has to watch as Fetters and Choate give up 3 runs and Johnson takes the loss.

[Ksyrup]

I'm sure it is frustrating. But being a great pitcher doesn't entitle anyone him to play for a winner every year. If they can make it happen for him and better themselves in the process, then it makes sense. If not, don't threaten to be a clubhouse cancer because the team you won it all with 3 years ago won't trade you to the only team you want to play for, who just happens to have no decent prospects to trade.

[Maple Leafs]

Nice. So he insists that the team trade him to a team that doesn't have prospects to trade. Lovely.

[Vince]

I know KSyrup...just trying to give more perspective. I don't think that he (or anyone) has the right to make a demand like this.

[Qwikshot]

You know the saying what goes around comes around.

Remember how Schilling wouldn't allow any trade save to Arizona when he was on the Phillies?

RJ can do what he wants, that's why he has a no-trade clause.

[Blackadar]

D-backs aren't in a playoff run. I'd keep him, and bench his ass.

I'd do the same. Or pitch him 150 pitches every start until his arm is ruined.

It's within his rights to only want a trade to the Yankees. But to do so publicly or he'll be a disruption is unacceptable. And to demand it by Friday so he doesn't have to pitch again? Total bullshit.

[Buzzbee]

I know KSyrup...just trying to give more perspective. I don't think that he (or anyone) has the right to make a demand like this.

Sure he has the right to demand it. Just like the D-backs have the right not to trade him.

[ISiddiqui]

Jeez, what a prick Johnson has become. Will he have any fans after this?

[MrBug708]

What would happen if they waived him? Then make a deal with the Royals to send over cash so he could play for them....

If I'm Arizona, you have to see you are getting screwed in the end. Might as well screw Randy back...

[pennywisesb]

I used to have alot of respect for Johnson before all of this, but now I'm disgusted by his attitude. Tough luck man, you have played for a winning team all of your life, except in '92 I think it was and in '04. Big deal. You signed a huge contract (that has hindered your team from building around you) to stay for the rest of your career in Arizona, now suck it up and play. I can't believe this whole "If I'm not traded on my terms by Friday to the team of choice, I'll be a cancer to the clubhouse" attitude. Its really depressing to see someone who I thought was a "standup" guy act like this.

Just my $.02

[Easy Mac]

Having been at the game on Sunday, I got a first hand look at how ridiculously frustrating it must be to be Randy Johnson. After 8 innings of shutout, 6-hit ball, the Diamondbacks get a 1-0 lead in the bottom of the 8th and Johnson is lifted for a pinch hitter. The top of the ninth comes, and Johnson has to watch as Fetters and Choate give up 3 runs and Johnson takes the loss.
not trying to ruin your story, but if the Diamondbacks are winning and he gets taken out for a pinch hitter while they're leading, then I don't think he can take the loss. You can't be credited with a loss if you come out of a game your winning while your team is batting.

[Vince]

No, good point. He didn't take the loss; that's my bad. He didn't get the win though. Choate took the loss.

[Buccaneer]

I keep thinking back to the time he purposely tanked for Seattle before being traded to Houston. The Pads, fortunately, got revenge against him on behalf of the M's.

[OldSchool]

I saw this on ESPN today as well - he's refusing trades to Anaheim and the Dodgers?! C'mon, man! The Angels have an awesome lineup and the Dodgers are in first place!

Can you imagine the numbers he'd put up pitching in Dodger Stadium? Can't believe he wont go there.

[gstelmack]

RJ can do what he wants, that's why he has a no-trade clause.
Yup, but he doesn't have a "must-trade" clause. That's what's biting him here. He can veto any trades he wants, but to demand that he be traded and to only one team is way out there.

[Qwikshot]

Yup, but he doesn't have a "must-trade" clause. That's what's biting him here. He can veto any trades he wants, but to demand that he be traded and to only one team is way out there.True, but it does give him some position of power.

[pennywisesb]

What I'm trying to figure out here is his reasoning for only wanting to go to NY. When this whole trade talk started, he said being close to his family was the major issue in deciding whether he would accept a trade. Where is this mentality now? Going to NY puts him 3000+ miles away from his family. If he went to Los Angeles or Anaheim he's like 200 miles away from his family....

[jeff061]

Like Clemens and the Sox
"I want to go to close to my family in Texas"
"I want to play in the NL, so i don't have to play the sox"

Goes to Toronto, then the Yankees.

[Vince]

Can you imagine the numbers he'd put up pitching in Dodger Stadium? Can't believe he wont go there.
That was one of my thoughts as well. Dodgers are solid, young, close to AZ, and in first place already. Interesting decision to veto them as a candidate.

[RainRaven]

Remember Johnson does have another year on his contract so maybe he figures the Yanks WILL be in contention again next year come hell or high water.

[cthomer5000]

So he's an asshole for actually excercising the no-trade clasue that the team agreed to put in his contract?

[pennywisesb]

So he's an asshole for actually excercising the no-trade clasue that the team agreed to put in his contract?
Yankee fan huh?

[Arles]

I think Arizona still has a bit of leverage. They don't "have" to trade him, their payroll is only at about $67 million and Dessens, Finley, Batista and Mantei are all off the books at the end of the year (~$23 mil). So, they could keep Johnson, resign Sexson, maybe bring back Finley and still get a nice pitcher or two and be $5-$10 mil less than they are right now.

I just heard on the local Phoenix radio that Joe G. told the Yanks they need better prospects or he stays. He also told Johnson that it may come down to Anaheim or not getting traded, at which point RJ will probably buy off a deal to the Angels. Although, there are reports now that the Yanks are desperate for Johnson and talking to both the Marlins and Pirates about deals to take more of their bad salaries for prospects.

Should be an interesting 3 days.

[Deattribution]

That's what his no trade clause is for... so he can pick and choose what team he goes too.. If Arizona didn't want to be chained to that, they shouldn't of gave him that option.


The only thing he has done that is too far is say he would become a problem in the locker room.... and he didn't even say that, his agent did. Plus it's all just speculation anyway, I haven't saw Johnson on sportscenter admiting to any of this, so nobody has the real story. Just like when they were saying he refused to goto the Red Sox then two days later ESPN shows 'his list' and the Red Sox are on it.

So I don't know how any of it makes him such an asshole, or merits these ridiculous post about how they should ruin his career.

[Arles]

The only thing he has done that is too far is say he would become a problem in the locker room.... and he didn't even say that, his agent did.
This is a cop out. Your agent is essentially an extension of yourself. If your agent tells a team you no longer want to play for them, you can't come back three days later and say "Hey, that was my agent talking, not me".

Randy's agent works for him and on his behalf. If Johnson doesn't feel that way, then he should correct his agent. If he does not, then you have to assume that accurately reflects his feelings.

But, since Arizona just lost 14 in a row, how much more damage could an "upset" Randy do to the team? Make them lose 16 in a row?

If Arizona was in a pennant race, maybe he would have a point. But, at this point, the team would probably prefer an upset Randy to no Randy as that atleast creates some controversy. And, at this point, that's the best the DBacks can hope for to get interest in this team.

[cthomer5000]

Yankee fan huh?
Yankee hater and general non-baseball fan. It's just that the logic employed in this thread boggles my mind.

[Ksyrup]

So he's an asshole for actually excercising the no-trade clasue that the team agreed to put in his contract?
No, he's an asshole for attempting to force a trade to begin with, then hamstringing his team by giving them only one team to trade with, then threatening to disrupt the clubhouse if he doesn't get his way.

The trade wasn't the DBacks' idea - it was Johnson's. He has a "no-trade" clause, not an "I can dictate a trade on my terms" clause. The team is doing him a favor by entertaining the idea at all, then he screws them by limiting their options, then demnds that the trade be made by today so he can stay "on schedule" to pitch for his new team on Friday, AND THEN throws a tantrum when it looks like he isn't going to get his way.

That's why he's an asshole. He has every right to turn down the LA deal. Biut when you try to force your team to deal with only one team - a team whose farm system is essentially devoid of any talent - he has absolutely no right to bitch and moan and threaten when they don't pull the trigger on a deal that would only benefit him (and the Yankees).

[clintl]

As long as he keeps refusing any trade to the Dodgers, I don't care what he does. Now, accepting a trade to the Dodgers would be qualify as being an asshole.

[Anthony]

this is why GM's have to learn to not include no-trade clauses in contracts - they make no sense. no-trade clauses are backwards - they usually go to the players with obscene contracts. so when the time comes that the players has to be moved it's not only hard to find a team stupid enough to aquire that contract but now you have to jump an additional hurdle and make sure it's on that list of teams the player will agree to.

if i was a GM i wouldn't use those clauses. they only make the GM's job harder. that's like a GM giving a pitcher a "no-fastball clause".

[pennywisesb]

this is why GM's have to learn to not include no-trade clauses in contracts - they make no sense. no-trade clauses are backwards - they usually go to the players with obscene contracts. so when the time comes that the players has to be moved it's not only hard to find a team stupid enough to aquire that contract but now you have to jump an additional hurdle and make sure it's on that list of teams the player will agree to.

if i was a GM i wouldn't use those clauses. they only make the GM's job harder. that's like a GM giving a pitcher a "no-fastball clause".
Which is exactly why I'm ecstatic that the A's didn't give Giambi that no-trade clause. Beane's genious never ceases to amaze me.

[Dawgfan1980]

I find this thread so amusing. Up here, we have known RJ to be a bit of a prick when things go to crap in a hurry. He has pitched for bad teams (The Expos, The M's in the dome), but when he wanted out, he made the whole clubhouse a horrible place for everyone. For quite a long time RJ was Public Enemy number 2 (behind ARod) until he beat the "hated" Yankees in the World Series, and now he is loved up here, or it could be Seattle Sports fans are the worst in America, and never can hold a grudge.

To put it simply, Randy Johnson is a mercinary, hired to do a job, and when he wants to leave, he will do his damndest to get his way. Put him in pinstripes, and when they play the Dodgers in the Series, let one of their starters drill him in the ear hole, then we are all even

[SnDvls]

So he's an asshole for actually excercising the no-trade clasue that the team agreed to put in his contract?

Actually "it" wasn't put into his contract by the D-Backs it's because he's a 10-5 or 5-10 (however it goes) guy. 10 years in the majors last 5 years with the same team. Same thing with Steve Finley and his veto to an East coast team or SF.

[SlapBone]

No, he's an asshole for attempting to force a trade to begin with, then hamstringing his team by giving them only one team to trade with, then threatening to disrupt the clubhouse if he doesn't get his way.

The trade wasn't the DBacks' idea - it was Johnson's. He has a "no-trade" clause, not an "I can dictate a trade on my terms" clause. The team is doing him a favor by entertaining the idea at all, then he screws them by limiting their options, then demnds that the trade be made by today so he can stay "on schedule" to pitch for his new team on Friday, AND THEN throws a tantrum when it looks like he isn't going to get his way.

That's why he's an asshole. He has every right to turn down the LA deal. Biut when you try to force your team to deal with only one team - a team whose farm system is essentially devoid of any talent - he has absolutely no right to bitch and moan and threaten when they don't pull the trigger on a deal that would only benefit him (and the Yankees).


NO... he's an asshole for wanting to play for the yankees.

[stevew]

I want to see him get traded to New York to see how he looks even more dorky without facial hair.

And I heard the Yankees didnt want to part with Posada for Johnson. Id do that in a second.

[Franklinnoble]

This is a cop out. Your agent is essentially an extension of yourself. If your agent tells a team you no longer want to play for them, you can't come back three days later and say "Hey, that was my agent talking, not me".

Randy's agent works for him and on his behalf. If Johnson doesn't feel that way, then he should correct his agent. If he does not, then you have to assume that accurately reflects his feelings.

But, since Arizona just lost 14 in a row, how much more damage could an "upset" Randy do to the team? Make them lose 16 in a row?

If Arizona was in a pennant race, maybe he would have a point. But, at this point, the team would probably prefer an upset Randy to no Randy as that atleast creates some controversy. And, at this point, that's the best the DBacks can hope for to get interest in this team.
My thoughts exactly. Johnson really has no leverage here. So what if he's locker room cancer? The Dbacks aren't getting any lower than last place. They shouldn't let him try to strongarm a trade that's bad for the team.

[MrBug708]

As long as he keeps refusing any trade to the Dodgers, I don't care what he does. Now, accepting a trade to the Dodgers would be qualify as being an asshole.

Says the Bonds fan... :rolleyes:

[Ksyrup]

Garigiola's supposed response to Johnson's agent's threat about becoming a clubhouse disruption if he wasn't traded: "How would I know the difference?"

[Ksyrup]

I love trading deadline time, but if ESPN is going to insist on playing the poker analogy for 2 more days, I'd rather fast-forward to Sunday. Why would Sean McAdam write an article about what 10 teams could give for Johnson ("what they're showing" - clever! :rolleyes: ), when he only wants to go to one team, and has vetoed a perfectly acceptable deal to another contender? That's free, but Rob Neyer costs money. I guess you get what you pay for.

[sterlingice]

I keep thinking back to the time he purposely tanked for Seattle before being traded to Houston. The Pads, fortunately, got revenge against him on behalf of the M's.
I find this thread so amusing. Up here, we have known RJ to be a bit of a prick when things go to crap in a hurry. He has pitched for bad teams (The Expos, The M's in the dome), but when he wanted out, he made the whole clubhouse a horrible place for everyone. For quite a long time RJ was Public Enemy number 2 (behind ARod) until he beat the "hated" Yankees in the World Series, and now he is loved up here, or it could be Seattle Sports fans are the worst in America, and never can hold a grudge.

To put it simply, Randy Johnson is a mercinary, hired to do a job, and when he wants to leave, he will do his damndest to get his way. Put him in pinstripes, and when they play the Dodgers in the Series, let one of their starters drill him in the ear hole, then we are all even
Man, how quickly people forget. He's back to saint again, now, before this? Like Bucc and Dawgfan, I remember in 1998, it was great for the 'stros to get him and make a pennant run. But I remember all the charges that he was just mailing it in Seattle and even tanking games since he was so far below his career averages that year and then suddenly lit it up when he went to Houston.

SI

[Chief Rum]

Randy Johnson is certainly no saint in my book. I have no idea when he became a media darling.

But then, I also missed the media gravy train suddenly showing up for Roger Clemens and Karl Malone and Rasheed Wallace, among others. Those are three fo the biggest jerks in sports, but it's like the media is on love with them all now. Is the Big Unit just the latest example of this?

As an Angels fan, I have waffled between whether I want the Halos to go get him. I have decided I don't. I want to keep our prospects (we have some good ones) and maybe go get a lesser pitcher like Benson or Batista, if we really need to. This Randy Johnson thing is just dumb.

I hope he isn't traded at all, and suffers some minor injury, like anal spasms, that shelves him for the rest of the year.

CR

[clintl]

Says the Bonds fan... :rolleyes:

It has nothing to do with Bonds. It has to do with being a Giants fan, and not wanting the Dodgers to improve their chances of making the postseason.

[dacman]

Randy Johnson is certainly no saint in my book. I have no idea when he became a media darling.


May 18, 2004.

[Chief Rum]

May 18, 2004.

Good point. I wish I could do just one thing that would erase all my past transgressions. :rolleyes:

CR

[MrBug708]

It has nothing to do with Bonds. It has to do with being a Giants fan, and not wanting the Dodgers to improve their chances of making the postseason.

Liking tradition makes him an asshole? Nah. Bonds is an asshole for himself...