Does anyone like this guy?

[SunDevil]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1849378

[pennywisesb]

I read this article earlier today and was in disbelief that he rejected the deal offered to him by the Browns. Especially when you consider, it could make him the highest paid TE in the game (without even stepping on an NFL field) as long as he meets certain incentives. KW Jr. is an idiot in my book, right up there with Randy Johnson.

[SunDevil]

My favorite moment was him getting all hyped up last year for the heisman, and when he scored his first TD in the first game of the year, he struck the heisman pose in the endzone. That was the only TD he scored all season. Classic

[Cringer]

Damn rookies. I understand trying to get as much as you can because you have no idea how long you may play because of injury or other reasons (like loving weed), but these guys are unreasonable sometimes. The highest paid TE isn't good enough for him? He is going to have to learn that he is not a QB or LT, no matter how good he is.......

[Samdari]

I like Poston's quote about turning down the highest paying contract ever for a TE:

"We are continuing to negotiate with the Browns to obtain for Kellen Winslow II his fair market value."

Let's see, more than the guy drafted ahead of you, check. More than anyone in a comparable position has ever made, check. But still somehow unfair?

[Surtt]

Doesn't it seam like the Postons are cutting their own throats.
Playing hade ball is one thing, being completely unreasonable is another.

There were rumors this year that Washington passed on him because of his agents.
When collage players realize they are going to be passed over in the draft if they sign with the Postons, their client base is going to dry up.

[sterlingice]

Man, that's just crazy. And he still won't be the best tight end in the league no matter how good he thinks he is. Maybe in a couple of years, but I'm pretty sure the Tony Gonzalez's of the world will still be better than him.

He'd better be able to walk on water and not just in his own mind for that kind of cash.

SI

[cthomer5000]

I remember reading a great quote from someone in the Rams front office. A reporter asked a question about the Poston's latest proposal (for Orlando Pace). The reponse was something to the effect of "It wasn't a proposal, it was a ransom note."

edit: actual quote and article link

"It's not an offer; it's a ransom note," Jay Zygmunt, the Rams' president of football operations, said at the time.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E86%257E2097207,00.html

[pennywisesb]

Man, that's just crazy. And he still won't be the best tight end in the league no matter how good he thinks he is. Maybe in a couple of years, but I'm pretty sure the Tony Gonzalez's of the world will still be better than him.

He'd better be able to walk on water and not just in his own mind for that kind of cash.

SI
Don't forget Jeremy Shockey, I don't like the guy's attitude, but he can sure play football.

[sterlingice]

Don't forget Jeremy Shockey, I don't like the guy's attitude, but he can sure play football.
Anyone who thinks he's better than Gonzalez needs to stop reading the New York press and watch the games instead.

SI

[pennywisesb]

Anyone who thinks he's better than Gonzalez needs to stop reading the New York press and watch the games instead.

SI
Touche, but I didn't mean he was better than Gonzales, I meant that he is better than Winslow. I just think Winslow Jr. has too much confidence in his unproven abilities.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

If Chris Carter's nickname is "All he does is catch touchdown passes" Then Shockey's should be "All he does is drop touchdown passes".

[General Mike]

If Chris Carter's nickname is "All he does is catch touchdown passes" Then Shockey's should be "All he does is drop touchdown passes".
:(
You go Aaron Shea. Make that bitch pay for the number.

[tucker342]

I hate Winslow... I have one word that will probably sum up his career: BUST

[OldSchool]

His dad needs to kick the crap out of him.

[sabotai]

I think people are unfairly putting this on Winslow. Players hardly get into their own contract negotiations, especially rookies (they have no clue when it comes to "contract language"). I think, and the article seems to imply it, that this was done by the Postons.

[sterlingice]

Touche, but I didn't mean he was better than Gonzales, I meant that he is better than Winslow. I just think Winslow Jr. has too much confidence in his unproven abilities.
Oh, my bad. Sure, I'll buy that just because it's highly unlikely he will come into the league as one of the top 3 TEs.

SI

[Cringer]

I think people are unfairly putting this on Winslow. Players hardly get into their own contract negotiations, especially rookies (they have no clue when it comes to "contract language"). I think, and the article seems to imply it, that this was done by the Postons.

I'm sorry, but this was not "done by the Postons."

The player is the boss in this relationship, if he wanted that contract then he would have taken it. If the Postons rejected it w/o asking him his wishes, then they should be fired. They may suggest a course of action, but the player does not have to take that, he can very easily take the contract if he wants. And maybe with another player I would give more weight to the amount of influence that the agents would have on the rookie, but not with Winslow and his father.

[TroyF]

I think people are unfairly putting this on Winslow. Players hardly get into their own contract negotiations, especially rookies (they have no clue when it comes to "contract language"). I think, and the article seems to imply it, that this was done by the Postons.


Nice try. Winslow knew the reputation the Postons had. He knew they play hardball and that they hold nearly every player out of camp.

He also knew the contract offer the Browns gave him. (if he didn't, as another poster said, he should fire the agent instantly)

Winslow is going to make the same mistake many other young TE have made. He wants to be paid as the best WR in the game. Tony G wanted that and didn't get it. An unproven rookie certainly won't get it.

Jeff Garcia has to be wondering what the hell he has to do to play on a team like the Patriots with a bunch of solid WR who arne't prima donnas. He gets away from Owens and goes right to this freak of nature.

[SunDevil]

What is a good score on the Wonderlic?

[Surtt]

His dad needs to kick the crap out of him.

Wasn't he trying to charge agents just to interview with his kid.

[ScottVib]

What is a good score on the Wonderlic?
High 30's are good (Eli Mannins was a 39) 50 is a perfect score (done once by a former Bengal Punter: Pat McInally)

The average over the last 20 years was about a 20, which not coincidentally is considered to equal about a 100 IQ. Winslow is less then half that. (Chris Gamble also reportedly scored a 9)

Charlie Wonderlic Jr., president of Wonderlic Inc., says, "A score of 10 is literacy, that's about all we can say." (Looks like Winslow is signing up for the book on tape version of his contract)

Average by position:
This assessment roughly corresponds to the averages revealed, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, by an NFL personnel man in Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking man's Guide to Pro Football," which are:

Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16
(Source: hxxp://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228.html)

[cthomer5000]

But, he's a solider people!

[rexallllsc]

His dad needs to kick the crap out of him.

His dad is just as bad...not to mention that Sr. chose the Postons.

[jamesUMD]

I have been wondering how badly Winslow and Sean Taylor hated each other in college. After the draft he was proclaiming how The redskins would be sorry for drafting Taylor over him. In the Cleveland articles yesterday they mention how Cleveland wanted to make sure that he got paid comparable to Sean Taylor. Today his dad said in another article how they didn't sign the contract because it was based off a bad contract signed by Sean Taylor. Lastly, leading up to the drat, after Portis was traded for, a local radio host asked Portis whether the Redskins should draft Taylor or Winslow, and he said hands down, "Sean Taylor". It make you wonder!

[Easy Mac]

Is the Wonderlic the same test they offer when you get interviewed for as job, or is it modified. I've taken some for jobs, and their too damn easy to be the same test.

[The_herd]

I have been wondering how badly Winslow and Sean Taylor hated each other in college. After the draft he was proclaiming how The redskins would be sorry for drafting Taylor over him. In the Cleveland articles yesterday they mention how Cleveland wanted to make sure that he got paid comparable to Sean Taylor. Today his dad said in another article how they didn't sign the contract because it was based off a bad contract signed by Sean Taylor. Lastly, leading up to the drat, after Portis was traded for, a local radio host asked Portis whether the Redskins should draft Taylor or Winslow, and he said hands down, "Sean Taylor". It make you wonder!

Portis isn't exactly the player you want to base opinions from. He could probably count the number of friends he had at Miami on one hand. He has an attitude that tends to really rub people the wrong way.

You can bash Winslow all you want, as he is severely lacking in maturity. He does show up to play on ever down and had zero off field problems at Miami. The same can't be said for Taylor. In 3-4 seasons, when he's gained a good bit of maturity, I think he'll easily be one of the top 2-3 TEs in the league.

Winslow is looking to get paid, simple as that. Most rookies are. He's 21 years old and wants get the most he can and most of us would do the same. Manning just signed a $20 million signing bonus before taking a snap and noone batted an eye. Make no mistake about it, once he signed with the Postons, they were running the show. They have been fired by players in the past for asking for ridiculous amounts and regecting solid offers. Winslow signed an agent to handle these things, he's going to listen to what they say. Regardless of whether we think its wrong or right.

[Ironhead]

http://www.footballguys.com/04bang_negotiation.htm

[sabotai]

Nice try.

What exactly was I trying to do, other than just offer up a possible explaination? I'm not sticking up for Winslow, I fucking hate him. He's an arrogent jerk. But you are making an assupmtion of what goes on between him and his agent. He did pick ther Postons because of their reputation, and could just be giving them full control. You don't know if he saw the contract offer and you don't know if he cares if he saw it or not.

Yes, all he wants is to get paid as much as possible. If he trusts the Postons to do that for him, then why would he really care to see the contract? (I doubt Winslow would even be intelligent enough to understand it...) People like Winslow, who only care about getting as much as possible, listen to what agents like the Postons say. They have a reputation for a reason.

EDIT: And I wouldn't be surprised if I was 100% wrong, either. I am just speculating for argument sake.

[ScottVib]

Is the Wonderlic the same test they offer when you get interviewed for as job, or is it modified. I've taken some for jobs, and their too damn easy to be the same test.

There is a decent chance that it is:

hxxp://www.wonderlic.com/promotion/nfl_article.asp

And the linked product, the one the NFL uses:

hxxp://www.wonderlic.com/products/product.asp?prod_id=4

[Cringer]

Charlie Wonderlic Jr., president of Wonderlic Inc., says, "A score of 10 is literacy, that's about all we can say." (Looks like Winslow is signing up for the book on tape version of his contract))

B-E-A-UTIFUL!

Average by position:
This assessment roughly corresponds to the averages revealed, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, by an NFL personnel man in Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking man's Guide to Pro Football," which are:

Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16

I like seeing that the O-linemen are on top of that list.......

[duckman]

http://www.footballguys.com/04bang_negotiation.htm
"He's a fucking soldier!"

Priceless. :D

[The_herd]

A link to the thread discussing some wonderlic results from this past combine.

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=23879&highlight=wonderlic

For those wondering, Winslow scored an 11.

[Noop]

Winslow is not the best teammate from what I have seen. He was not the most liked guy at Miami, the coaches just let him do his thing basically. His father is a cancer because he is the one that makes Kellen think he is the best thing since slice bread. Now for Sean Taylor he is a cool guy he is cocky but does who speak with him often will tell you he is a cool person away from sports. I would like to believe that Miami has players who all like each other but that is not true for one Rolle likes to treat people like crap. As far as I am concerned he is chump who does nothing but berate his fellow teammates...

[Dawgfan1980]

All I can say about the Winslow family is that Kellen II wanted to come up here for school, verbally committed here at the U-Dub, and then backed out when Daddy told him to go Miami. I hate them both, and when Kellen Winslow's face comes on my screen, my cup goes flying. Naturally, they limit me to dixie and styrafoam cups now during the fall.

[OldSchool]

I had to take a version of the Wonderlic when I started my current job, not sure if its the NFL version or not but the scoring system is the same. The questions are easy but its timed (pretty short timer too) which is the only thing slightly challenging about it.

[stevew]

"He's a fucking soldier!"

Priceless. :D

They will get back to negotiations after their "happy ending."

[duckman]

They will get back to negotiations after their "happy ending."
"I don't see no fruit basket!"

[sterlingice]

Naturally, they limit me to dixie and styrafoam cups now during the fall.
Classic :D

SI

[Raven Hawk]

The Polstons are just making sure that he is making the same amount he would have gotten if somebody else represented him. After all, if somebody else represented him, he would have gone 3 slots higher in the draft. ;)

[mckerney]

"Well, we would certainly like to come to some sort of a deal before training camp?"

"HAHAHHAHAHAHA. Go on man, get out of here. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's a good one."


:)

[Dawgfan1980]

Classic :D

SI

Yeah, you should see the house during a Saturday afternoon... Cups lying all around the TV, couch pillows everywhere, and that is just during the pregame festivities. Is it September 5th yet? And as for Kellen "I'm a Soldier" Winslow, please let John Lynch clean his clock and decleat him at some point in his career. I haven't ever wished for an injury, but god, to see his jaw wired shut, wouldn't that be great???

[duckman]

I haven't ever wished for an injury, but god, to see his jaw wired shut, wouldn't that be great???
We couldn't get that lucky. I say cut his nuts off so he can't procreate.

[Franklinnoble]

I'm so glad the Redskins didn't draft this guy...

[rkmsuf]

I'm so glad the Redskins didn't draft this guy...

Yeah they seem to have made out with Taylor.

[Franklinnoble]

Yeah they seem to have made out with Taylor. '
Taylor's knee injury was minor, at worst. He was back in practice yesterday.

The point is, he signed his contract and made training camp on time.

[Samdari]

'
Taylor's knee injury was minor, at worst. He was back in practice yesterday.

The point is, he signed his contract and made training camp on time.

Taylor may be a head case, but at about 10% of the level of Winslow.

[The_herd]

Word is Sean Taylor is very displeased with his contract after seeing the contracts signed by the players ahead of him and the fact that Winslow rejected an offer that essentially paid the same as Taylor's. "Super-agent" Drew Rosenhaus was fired and he's going to try to renegotiate his deal on his own.

[cthomer5000]

Word is Sean Taylor is very displeased with his contract after seeing the contracts signed by the players ahead of him and the fact that Winslow rejected an offer that essentially paid the same as Taylor's. "Super-agent" Drew Rosenhaus was fired and he's going to try to renegotiate his deal on his own.
I think you got the facts wrong. Taylor fired Rosenhaus after the draft, negotiated his deal with a different agent, and is now about to re-hire Rosenhaus. You make it sound as if Rosenhaus negotiated Taylors contract, which he did not.

[The_herd]

I think you got the facts wrong. Taylor fired Rosenhaus after the draft, negotiated his deal with a different agent, and is now about to re-hire Rosenhaus. You make it sound as if Rosenhaus negotiated Taylors contract, which he did not.

Sorry, thats what I was reading. The WT must have gotten the agents flipped.


Sean Taylor fired his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, a week after Rosenhaus showed rare urgency to get his contract done with the Redskins before training camp. It's believed Taylor will try to rework his seven-year, $18 million contract.
-- The Washington Times

[Franklinnoble]

Taylor CAN'T rework his contract this year. League rules forbid it, and the Redskins are in no way motivated to work with him on it. His best bet is to work his ass off and MAYBE re-negotiate next season, if he feels he was wronged.

The bottom line is that his deal is very fair. It's not Eli Manning money, but he'd be stupid to expect that. He's a safety. Not a wide receiver or quarterback.

[Dawgfan1980]

Did I hear right that the offer the Browns put on the table was in line with his draft status (Winslow) at the six spot, but they were holding out for the money that a player of his status deserves. Top overall money, they were talking. How stupid do you have to be to not realize that you were not drafted first, and it isn't a conspiracy (a word he can't spell), but that you are only the sixth (and that is a push) best player in this draft. I am starting a petetion to get the Browns to play the Broncos, so John Lynch can hit Winslow (Emphasis on slow with that guys IQ) so hard he eats through a tube for a few months? Not that I would ever wish an injury on a stupid bastard.

[The_herd]

I've read that the Postons and the Browns are at least $15 million apart on a deal. Thats with the Browns offering to make him the highest paid TE in the NFL, which actually placed him a little higher than his number six spot.

I'm getting the feeling a player that signs with the Postons will never go in the top 10 again. I hope they love destroying clients draft status just by having their named attatched to the player.

[Franklinnoble]

I've read that the Postons and the Browns are at least $15 million apart on a deal. Thats with the Browns offering to make him the highest paid TE in the NFL, which actually placed him a little higher than his number six spot.

I'm getting the feeling a player that signs with the Postons will never go in the top 10 again. I hope they love destroying clients draft status just by having their named attatched to the player.
I wonder if there's a way you can slap a franchise tag on a newly drafted player, thus forcing him to accept the average of the top five players in the league.. :D

This situation is way outta hand... Winslow is asking for the kind of money that will basically cripple his own team for years to come. It's f'ing stupid.

[RainRaven]

The Browns know the kind of individual Winslow is and they know what kind of agents the Postons are so hence I have no sympathy for them.

[rkmsuf]

The Browns should just say f it and let Winslow go wash cars.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am happy the Lions decided to pass on Winslow, trade down a spot in the draft that gave them additional 2nd round pick which they they turned into a first rounder (with a few others tossed in) which they used to draft Kevin Jones, and draft Roy Williams. I am pleased with all of this at the moment.

[rkmsuf]

I am happy the Lions decided to pass on Winslow, trade down a spot in the draft that gave them additional 2nd round pick which they they turned into a first rounder (with a few others tossed in) which they used to draft Kevin Jones, and draft Roy Williams. I am pleased with all of this at the moment.

Lions fans everywhere should rejoice.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Lions fans everywhere should rejoice.

I think we are. Let's face it, the last weekend or so in April has been the only thing Lions fans have been able to get excited about in the last three years.

[rkmsuf]

I you can get your boy Joey in gear the team has a shot to make some noise.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I you can get your boy Joey in gear the team has a shot to make some noise.

Two big question marks for the Lions:

1. Joey. This is the biggest. He'll be under a ton of pressure this year, but seems to be taking it pretty well at the moment. It's important to remember, however, that all of the "high powered" offensive weapons around him (Rogers, Williams, Jones, etc.) are rookies (or basically rookies). There will be some growing pains.

2. Just behind Joey, as concerns go, is the pass rush. The Lions are strong up the middle. Very strong, with Wilkinson and S. Rogers. But who will put pressure on the QB? Porcher has been on his last legs for years now. Hall is steady, but not spectacular. Kalimba Edwards is the guy who really has to come through. There will be a lot of pressure on the former second round pick. If he can't generate pressure on the QB, the Lions defense will struggle. They are weak in the safety spot and have very, very, very young linebackers.

Still, there are a ton of reasons to be excited this year and hopefully the Lions will get back to respectability. Winning a road game and going 8-8 would be a good start.

[rkmsuf]

Two big question marks for the Lions:

1. Joey. This is the biggest. He'll be under a ton of pressure this year, but seems to be taking it pretty well at the moment. It's important to remember, however, that all of the "high powered" offensive weapons around him (Rogers, Williams, Jones, etc.) are rookies (or basically rookies). There will be some growing pains.

2. Just behind Joey, as concerns go, is the pass rush. The Lions are strong up the middle. Very strong, with Wilkinson and S. Rogers. But who will put pressure on the QB? Porcher has been on his last legs for years now. Hall is steady, but not spectacular. Kalimba Edwards is the guy who really has to come through. There will be a lot of pressure on the former second round pick. If he can't generate pressure on the QB, the Lions defense will struggle. They are weak in the safety spot and have very, very, very young linebackers.

Still, there are a ton of reasons to be excited this year and hopefully the Lions will get back to respectability. Winning a road game and going 8-8 would be a good start.

Just spank the Colts on Thanksgiving and I'll be happy.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Just spank the Colts on Thanksgiving and I'll be happy.

Thanksgiving Day tends to bring out the best in the Lions, so there is a chance that could happen. Also, Indy looks pretty weak at corner. If Williams and Rogers are both healthy and pan out like they should, they should be able to tear them up.

[Ksyrup]

If the Lions could score a TD where the receiver catches the ball, falls down, isn't touched, and then gets up and runs for a TD during that game, as a Lions and Broncos fan, that would be about all I could expect for the entire season.

[QuikSand]

I don't care for the attitude shown by KWII, either, let me be clear.

But is "stupid" really the right word for it? He's stupid to ask for so much money, he's stupid to be holding out like this, he's stupid to think of himself so highly... these comments seem awfully common.

I'm thinking "greedy bastard" or "selfish jerk" fit better, really. This might turn out to be a very effective and profitable angle for him in his position -- he does have a pretty good deal of leverage in this situation. If he executs this holdout and ends up getting a contract worth, say, $3 million more than he would have otherwise... is that necessarily "stupid?"

Yes, I realize there is more than just money involved -- respect of his teammates and coaches, support from the fans, preparedness for early performance, and so forth). All that makes a difference, but I have to think that all those bridges can be pretty easily rebuilt if he shows up and becomes the difference-maker he thinks he can.

[rkmsuf]

The spirit of stupid here is in the greedy bastard sense I believe. I doubt anyone is questioning his actual intelligence.

[QuikSand]

From the sounds of it, it seems like many people here think that his strategy will backfire financially. I judge that as unlikely.

[Crapshoot]

I have to ask- why does this bother people so much ? He has leverage to finance his career, and he's using it. Hell, if money's important to him, shouldnt he try and guarentree whatever he can ? Why does it affect my personal well being if Winslow wants what he believes the market can bear, irrespective of whether it can or not ?

I guess Ive never gotten the carping at atheletes for their salaries bit- I think its a capitalistic system at work- c'est la vie.

[rkmsuf]

I have to ask- why does this bother people so much ? He has leverage to finance his career, and he's using it. Hell, if money's important to him, shouldnt he try and guarentree whatever he can ? Why does it affect my personal well being if Winslow wants what he believes the market can bear, irrespective of whether it can or not ?

I guess Ive never gotten the carping at atheletes for their salaries bit- I think its a capitalistic system at work- c'est la vie.

holdouts never endear yourself with the fans intially. onced signed it all blows over.

I guess you have to factor it down to joe blow. Who wants to continually hear about a guy trying to get an extra 3 million on top of 15 million.

For a guy that already has a sketchy image it can't help.

[Crapshoot]

holdouts never endear yourself with the fans intially. onced signed it all blows over.

I guess you have to factor it down to joe blow. Who wants to continually hear about a guy trying to get an extra 3 million on top of 15 million.

For a guy that already has a sketchy image it can't help.

I understand that Rk- its just that Joe Blow is never going to see a dime of that money- if the player doesnt get it, the owner will. Why that makes a difference to him (or to anyone here) I dont get - is it jealousy ? For some reason, Joe Schmo has been conditioned to think that player salaries are the reason for high ticket prices, and so forth- which is pretty damn stupid. It doesnt make it right.

[Ksyrup]

I agree generally about the perception that players are greedy and owners somehow escape direct accountability for the same thing, but in this kind of situation, I think the issue has more to do with hurting the team by holding out. There's a line that's drawn between "get as much as you can" and "don't screw up our season you selfish bastard," and for a guy with a personality like Winslow's, it's pretty easy to see why people won't give him the benefit of the doubt. He's an arrogant jerk, and now he's hurting his team's chances of being competitive this year (at least, that's the perception, and his QB feels that way as well).

I think the money issue is a problem for a % of fans, but at this point, I think the team issue is a far greater factor.

[sterlingice]

Ksyrup just beat me to it, but it's basically: "We don't care how much the fuck you get paid so quit quibbling over that last five million bucks, more money than we will ever see in our lifetime, and get your ass on the damn field."

SI

[Crapshoot]

I agree that what both SI and KS said is the perception- Im simply questioning the validity of it. I cant tell you not to haggle for more pay if you work at Proctor and Gamble, on the basis that my toilet paper will get more expensive- that's between you and them, and none of my business. The same standards should apply- fundementally, football is a job and a business, and should be treated as such.

[sterlingice]

I agree that what both SI and KS said is the perception- Im simply questioning the validity of it. I cant tell you not to haggle for more pay if you work at Proctor and Gamble, on the basis that my toilet paper will get more expensive- that's between you and them, and none of my business. The same standards should apply- fundementally, football is a job and a business, and should be treated as such.
Yes, but it's a matter of who's interests are we looking out for. The player is looking out for the player's. The owner is looking out for the owner's. And us fans are looking out for fans' interests. Our interests in this case happen to coincide with the owner's more than the player's. We don't care who gets more money, but the owner doesn't play while the player does so we want his arse down on the field. His interests are getting in the way of us rooting for the team because he's making the team worse by not being on the field. The holdout may help him, certainly, and maybe it's right for him that he gets market value, but we don't care because I doubt we care if he gets market value, we just want him playing.

SI

[Ksyrup]

Yes, but the perception isn't that the haggling is going to cost you, as the consumer, more - at least not in this instance. The problem is that the haggling is costing his team the chance to be competitive. It's got nothing to do with what it's costing the consumer in monetary terms.

[Ksyrup]

Touche', as SI beat me to it. :D

[sterlingice]

Touche', as SI beat me to it. :D
Well, I had to make up for earlier :D

SI

[GrantDawg]

The other issue here is that he has already been offered enough to be the highest paid TE in the league. That is well above his market value since there is no way he will be the best TE in the league (at least through more than half of his contract, beyond that it may be arguable). I can see why people would be angry over that. If they were low-balling him it would be one thing. He has been offered a way more than fair deal and he is still holding out.

[Noop]

Blame his father.

[dawgfan]

The spirit of stupid here is in the greedy bastard sense I believe. I doubt anyone is questioning his actual intelligence.

Actually, given his Wonderlic score, plenty of people are questioning his actual intelligence...

[SunDevil]

I am sorry but if anyone saw that rant in the locker room last fall about how he is a solider and people trying to take out his legs is like someone trying to shot him, is just detached from reality.

Also all that preseason heisman hype last year and he scores a touchdown in the first game of the year and strikes a heisman pose in the endzone and then never scores again for the rest of the year. If these two scenarios do not show you who this guy really is, then I do not know what will.

This is America, and he can hold out, and ask for whatever amount of money he wants, but someone who thinks so highly of himself, should have the confidence that he will make his money sooner or later. Either in his rookie contract or in his second one. I completely understand the thought that injury can and will happen in the NFL, and it is the type of league that you should try to take the money and run. But trying to get paid more than the best TE in the league when you do not even know what the team locker room looks like is just insane. If he thinks he should get paid like a the best TE in the NFL and then he should prove it. Scoring one TE in your senior year in college means nothing in the NFL. Just my opinion.

[ISiddiqui]

You don't know if he saw the contract offer and you don't know if he cares if he saw it or not.

IIRC, the Postins would be violating their fiduciary responsibilies if they didn't allow Winslow to see the contract offer.

[Dawgfan1980]

And, for what it is worth, I am questioning his intelligence, and his perception of himself. If I were to say that I'm the best in my department at what I do, and holdout until I got paid not only the most in the department, but what I feel I'm worth (and I'm worth alot damnit) and the news reported on it, and if anyone cared about my job, then I would be stupid as well, and a selfish, arrogant asshole, who should be smacked by another coworker so my jaw could be wired shut. But, I'm not the best in my department, as I'm sitting here typing on this board and this thread about a dumbass who thinks he is a soldier, and who strikes Heisman poses (He can't carry Mario Bailey's jock, BTW). Take your money, get your endorsments (where the real money is) and smile that smile of yours WinSLOW.

[pennywisesb]

I think we are. Let's face it, the last weekend or so in April has been the only thing Lions fans have been able to get excited about in the last three years.
Only the last 3 years? :confused: Ever since Barry Sanders left there hasn't been awhole lot to cheer for as a Lion fan.