Help me settle an argument..

[Eaglesfan27]

First I need to give you all some background:

My wife and I have had very few "friend couples" to hang out with as a couple. Most of our friends are single, and either one of us or the other hangs out with them. We've had a hard time finding couples that we both enjoy hanging out with. I think it is quite difficult to balance 4 people's personalities where they really all enjoy hanging out on a consistent or semi-consistent basis. Our favorite couple to hang out with recently moved away. Tonight was one of the few rare nights where we both had off early on a Saturday and we decided to go hang out with our now favorite couple to hang out with.

We all get along fairly well. My wife is very interested in classical music and culinary arts and this blends well with our friend's interests. Meanwhile the female component of the couple is very interested in psychology as she has a pHD in psychology and her husband is very interested in almost all sports, so this meshes well with some of my interests. They are both quite intelligent and we usually have some stimulating conversations. The 4 personalities mesh and we have had great times the dozen or so times we've gotten together over the past 6-8 months since we first met them. Oh yeah, Ms. Eaglesfan first met him because he works as a bartender at the restaurant where she is a chef.

Anyway, tonight was the first time he ever got really drunk. I don't drink heavily because I feel I need every brain cell and they are dying off on their own anyway. Now, I have the occasional drink, just not to excess. This guy was slamming them back tonight. He had 3 or 4 mixed drinks at dinner. Fortunately, he let his wife drive their car home to the house. We followed them to their house to hang out there. This was probably our third time to their house. He continued to drink and started doing a couple of shots of Goldenschlager (sp?). This was over the course of an hour or two. We were relaxing and watching the Olympics. Anyway, we started talking about the meaning of the rings and such which was fine. We transitioned to talking about terrorism and the potential threat at the games. Then, he said out of the blue, "I wish Hitler had killed all of those Jews. They killed Christ and deserve to die."

I thought I might have misheard him so I said, "What did you just say?"

He repeated, "I wish Hitler had killed all of those damn Jews."

3 of my 4 grandparents are/were Jewish (and the other one was part Jewish) and I have a clearly Jewish last name. I resisted my visceral reaction to punch him in the face hard and said, "You know my grandparents were all Jewish right."

He didn't apologize. He didn't say much of anything but he slammed his glass down and stormed out of the room. His wife looked mortified (despite being fairly drunk herself.) My wife looked embarassed (she was also somewhat drunk as I was the designated driver for getting us home.)

So now we are arguing. She thinks they are a great couple and we have had so much fun with them, and we should forgive him "because he was really drunk."

I believe that alcohol only disinhibits an individual, and it doesn't make them say stupid things that they don't believe on some level. I think the alcohol unveiled his true feelings and why should I want to hang out with someone who is so incredibly prejudiced.

Does anyone think I should forgive this guy, and hang out with this couple again?

[Blackadar]

Scrawl a swastika in his forehead and mail him to Israel.

No, I wouldn't hang out with him again unless he initiated a sincere apology. You handled it a lot better than I would have - I'd have probably beat the shit out of him.

[NoMyths]

Nope. 'Course, this could just be because I've spent the last several months immersed in Holocaust literature after visiting Auschwitz in March. Changes a person to be in a room with two tons of human hair, cut from the scalps of over 40,000 murdered Jews.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I believe that alcohol only disinhibits an individual, and it doesn't make them say stupid things that they don't believe on some level.

I agree with you very much on this.

Where you go from there in this situation is your call, not mine, so I'm gonna leave that in your hands.

[Flasch186]

Im Jewish myself and have made a commitment to myself that it is against my values to even be around someone and thereby accept their feelings as ok. Basically saying that Im ok with them by not letting him know that they aren't ok. Now there is a line, if someone says something and I believe it is due to their lack of schooling and therefore a result of their lack of knowing any better, Ill forgive them but do my best to not hang out with them anymore. HOWEVER, what this man said involves so many different layers, the extinction of a group of people, paying some sort of homage to a mass murderer and one of the greatest scourges of the planet in our history, and then by storming out of the room basically means that he's upset becuase he thought you "were" cool but now that you have some jewish blood in you youre "different". Your wife is absolutely 100% in the wrong and by her trying to make it ok is saying that it is ok to be racist, prejudiced, and ultimately not a decent person. It is at these moments in your life that you define yourself and what you stand for...these moments happen all throughout your concious life and my friend, you are at one of these moments....so is your wife. You say that she is smart and therefore I'll bet that if you talk to her about this, she'll eventually get over the whole "damnit!! I want them to be good people" and see that he, perhaps not his wife, represents something that makes him NOT good people. I make it a point to stand up for underdogs, minorities, the downtrodden especially at moments like this....because it is at moments like this that they can either be stood up for, or smacked down again. Thank God Hitler was defeated as the world would be a different place for you, me and him.

[Eaglesfan27]

Blackadar - I really like your solution. By the way, I almost did start hitting him. I'm a pacifist by nature, but this was the strongest visceral reaction I've had to hit someone in years.

NoMyths - I've always wanted to visit Auschwitz. I think it would be a very emotional trip.

Jon - Thanks for the confirmation. My wife is a little drunk right now, but she is insistant that alcohol will make you say things that you don't believe. I simply don't believe that.

I can't see how I will ever hang out with this guy again. I understand she has to work with him, and if she wants to hang out with him and his wife that is her choice. Although this makes me question her (edited to clarify: I mean the guy's wife) values, I can't condemn her based on circumstances (assuming she doesn't know that he is a prejudiced A-hole), so I would still hang out with her if my wife wanted me to do so. I can't see myself ever hanging out with him again (or interacting with him for that matter.)

I can't believe my wife wants me to forgive him and wants to hang out with them again in the future. I'm hoping she will understand my viewpoint better after sleeping off the alcohol tonight.

[Suicane75]

There is no way in hell I would ever socialize with them again, and if you happen to see him again don't resist the urge to kick his ass. No offense, but your wife is nuts for even thinking about hanging out with them again.

[NoMyths]

NoMyths - I've always wanted to visit Auschwitz. I think it would be a very emotional trip.It is an unbelievably powerful place. Sobering.

[Flasch186]

i think she is just desperately wanting them to meet her need of having a "couple" friend. Im sure she'l come around. I mean, here is the frontrunner for friends and theyre hitting the first hurdle and slamming face first in the ground.....there will be more to come, theyre not the only ones.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll have fun with this couple ever again. Your relationship with this couple is forever changed. Even if you were to continue going out with this couple to make your wife happy, you wouldn't be able to have a good time. This guy's comments would constantly be in the back of your mind.

[duckman]

I would have hurled him through his living room window.

[bbor]

People actually still think like this?

This guy is a racist IMHO.

[stevew]

tell her that while she was in the other room he suggested doing the "swap" thing. that will scare her off of him altogether.

[cthomer5000]

Trust your gut here, I feel you've got it right.

[Eaglesfan27]

People actually still think like this?

This guy is a racist IMHO.

Apparently so :(

Flasch, I agree. We enjoy having our alone time together especially since we don't have our schedules matching up as much as we would like, but it is nice to hang out with another couple too from time to time. It's not just her that wants a "couple" friend, but I do too.

However, as Farrah said, I could never have a good time with this couple again. In fact, I don't want to do so. I love my wife very much, but I wouldn't hang out with this guy again even if she asked me to do so. I very seriously doubt she will do so, once she has time to think about this and sobers up. Also, as time passes I'm realizing my inclination to hit him isn't/wasn't just a passing impulse. Rather, I really want to go back to his house and try to beat some sense into him. I know that wouldn't work, but it doesn't change my feelings.

Suicane, I think if I saw him again, it would be hard to resist that urge. I think the potential felony charge will be the only thing stopping me from kicking his ass.

[Flasch186]

yeah and unfortunately i think you would spend time in the lockup instead of that moron who deserves it.

[TargetPractice6]

It wouldn't be worth the effort to kick the ass of such a pathetic ignoramus.

[oliegirl]

I would wait a day or two, and then revisit the subject and explain how much it hurt you and how personally you took it. Understand that she might want to continue a friendship with one or both of them, but that you don't have to be a part of the friendship. If it were me and this happened to radii I would dissolve the friendship immediately, but I don't know your wife so I can't speak for her or what I think she should do.

[stevew]

People tend to treat slurring jews as a "no biggie" type of situation, but i wonder if your wife would still feel the same way if he starting talking about how he wished that all the blacks would die or something.

[Eaglesfan27]

My wife just came downstairs and apologized to me. Apparently she couldn't sleep while she knew that I was upset :)

That alone made me feel quite a bit better.

She said she is sorry she acted like a jackass as she put it. She understands why I wanted to leave and why I don't want to see him anymore. She agrees that we aren't going to interact anymore with them except for where she has to at work. As a result, I just tucked her into bed and now neither of us has to go to sleep mad at the other. :)

[Swaggs]

The other factor here is that they work together. Hopefully there are enough people and enough space that it will not make things awkward for her. That may be here biggest concern--having one of her biggest allies at work turn into someone she despises seeing.

[duckman]

My wife just came downstairs and apologized to me. Apparently she couldn't sleep while she knew that I was upset :)

That alone made me feel quite a bit better.

She said she is sorry she acted like a jackass as she put it. She understands why I wanted to leave and why I don't want to see him anymore. She agrees that we aren't going to interact anymore with them except for where she has to at work. As a result, I just tucked her into bed and now neither of us has to go to sleep mad at the other. :)
That's really good to hear. Nothing worst than being pissed at someone you love.

[Swaggs]

Just curious, but what do you do if he apologizes to you tomorrow?

[Maple Leafs]

My wife just came downstairs and apologized to me.I understand each of the individual words, yet I can not comprehend this sentence.

[Eaglesfan27]

She is a chef and he is a bartender, so they have relatively little direct interaction. She started talking to him because "he seemed cool and he seemed like a guy you would like." However, the waitresses have much more interaction with him than she does. She has been promoted to the head chef of her time shift, so if there was a problem at work, she would outrank him I'm pretty sure. That being said, she has enjoyed talking to him during her breaks and I'm sorry that she has lost a "friend" at work.

Swaggs, I believe that alcohol doesn't make you do/say things that you don't believe at least somewhere in your heart. It disinhibits people, it doesn't take over their minds completely. Therefore, I don't think alcohol is a valid excuse for say someone cheating on a spouse/mate. I also don't think he gets a pass on his comments because he was drunk. So, if he calls to apologize, I'll do my best to be civil. I'll accept it, but I'll let him know that I believe at some level he is a racist and I no longer wish to hang out with him.

[Fonzie]

I second what everyone else has said. And I agree with you Eaglesfan - those kind of comments don't just come out of nowhere. The decision to utter something, and the vehemence with which a statement is made, might be influenced by the alcohol, but not the content. He is beneath contempt, and I'm sorry you had to experience racism at his hands (mouth?). My wife and I have been in a similar spot the last few years with having mostly single friends, and it hasn't been easy, so I'm sure the events of this evening must have been disappointing on multiple levels.

For what its worth, I see problems ahead for his marriage. I have to think this guy's wife is going to haul their asses into couples' therapy pretty damn quickly - either because these attitudes are all news to her, or because he's finally letting his drinking/racism become a problem for her.

And just for the record: I'm a psychologist myself, and on behalf of the discipline I'd like to take this opportunity to declare that, while we'll have sex with most anything (except therapy clients), we generally attempt to avoid becoming life partners with individuals who are morally bankrupt, socially despicable, or are otherwise unworthy of the protoplasm they occupy. Like the racist snotnibbler Eaglesfan described.

[Glengoyne]

First I'd like to say that your story took quite an unexpected turn. Up until the antisemitism, I was preparing Orgy jokes.

Secondly, I'd counsel you to put it aside as best as you can, and do not jump to conclusions about what he said. See how they approach the situation tomorrow. If you get a call or a visit, the relationship may be salvagable. You firmly believe that alcohol won't make people say things they don't believe. I agree with you, but I'd also say give him a chance to account for what he did. After that, you can decide whether or not he is a person of character or not.


but this was the strongest visceral reaction I've had to hit someone in years.

The last time I felt that way I was really drunk and at a party where I was talking with this guy about the Raiders. The subject turned to Marcus Allen, and he declared that Allen was a pussy for betraying the Raiders and going to the Chiefs.

It occurred to me that I must be really damn drunk, 'cause I wanted to deck the bastard.

So be a bit glad you weren't drunk, because you had a much better reason to hit him than I did.

[Fonzie]

I understand each of the individual words, yet I can not comprehend this sentence.

Remember, she was drunk. ;)

[Eaglesfan27]

I second what everyone else has said. And I agree with you Eaglesfan - those kind of comments don't just come out of nowhere. The decision to utter something, and the vehemence with which a statement is made, might be influenced by the alcohol, but not the content. He is beneath contempt, and I'm sorry you had to experience racism at his hands (mouth?). My wife and I have been in a similar spot the last few years with having mostly single friends, and it hasn't been easy, so I'm sure the events of this evening must have been disappointing on multiple levels.

For what its worth, I see problems ahead for his marriage. I have to think this guy's wife is going to haul their asses into couples' therapy pretty damn quickly - either because these attitudes are all news to her, or because he's finally letting his drinking/racism become a problem for her.

And just for the record: I'm a psychologist myself, and on behalf of the discipline I'd like to take this opportunity to declare that, while we'll have sex with most anything (except therapy clients), we generally attempt to avoid becoming life partners with individuals who are morally bankrupt, socially despicable, or are otherwise unworthy of the protoplasm they occupy. Like the racist snotnibbler Eaglesfan described.

Cool, I didn't know you were a psychologist. Despite the battle over prescribing privlidges here in Louisiana, many of my best friends are psychologists.

[Eaglesfan27]

First I'd like to say that your story took quite an unexpected turn. Up until the antisemitism, I was preparing Orgy jokes.

Secondly, I'd counsel you to put it aside as best as you can, and do not jump to conclusions about what he said. See how they approach the situation tomorrow. If you get a call or a visit, the relationship may be salvagable. You firmly believe that alcohol won't make people say things they don't believe. I agree with you, but I'd also say give him a chance to account for what he did. After that, you can decide whether or not he is a person of character or not.



The last time I felt that way I was really drunk and at a party where I was talking with this guy about the Raiders. The subject turned to Marcus Allen, and he declared that Allen was a pussy for betraying the Raiders and going to the Chiefs.

It occurred to me that I must be really damn drunk, 'cause I wanted to deck the bastard.

So be a bit glad you weren't drunk, because you had a much better reason to hit him than I did.

Thanks for a good laugh (the part about Marcus Allen) :)

As I was writing it, the thought that some people thought it was going to be an orgy story vaguely crossed my mind.

[CamEdwards]

I think you handled it in the most adult and responsible way you could, Eaglesfan.

[hukarez]

...wow. I am so glad that I'm not the only one who drinks Goldschlager! Most folks I know aren't particular to that hard liquor. Still, it was the first "hard liquor" shot that I ever took back at UCSB.

Waking up passed out in another dorm, and in another room was the most head splitting experience ever. Memories!

[Fonzie]

Cool, I didn't know you were a psychologist. Despite the battle over prescribing privlidges here in Louisiana, many of my best friends are psychologists.

That ugly battle is going on everywhere, and I for one hate what the pro-prescription priviledge psychologists are trying to do. I could go into a frothing diatribe about the problems with that effort, but this thread deserves better than a threadjacking that only two people would really find interesting. So let's get back to the racist-bashing. :)

[Eaglesfan27]

That ugly battle is going on everywhere, and I for one hate what the pro-prescription priviledge psychologists are trying to do. I could go into a frothing diatribe about the problems with that effort, but this thread deserves better than a threadjacking that only two people would really find interesting. So let's get back to the racist-bashing. :)

Agreed. Although I'd be interested in hearing your views about the problems at some point. As you probably know, I'm a psychiatrist and in Louisiana we have the joy of being the 2nd state to grant prescribing to "medical psychologists." But back to the racist-bashing in this thread. :)

[Flasch186]

Nice to know that you dont have to carry the weight anymore....very cool of her.

[ISiddiqui]

Does anyone think I should forgive this guy, and hang out with this couple again?

Hell no! Being drunk simply lowers your inhibitions and a LOT of what you say when intoxicated is what you really feel. If it was something about Israel, whatever, but saying that all Jews should have been killed? That's WAAY over the line, drunk or not!

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Call him and tell him that you understand about the other night and think you can hang out again. Get him good and liquored up. Bring up the statement, and tell him that Hitler had it all wrong. The Jews aren't the problem. He should have gone after (insert bastard's religion here.) In fact, if he's Catholic, Hitler didn't like them too much either! Oh yeah, take a roll of nickles, put it in your hand as you say this, then take his jaw off...

[sabotai]

As a result, I just tucked her into bed and now neither of us has to go to sleep mad at the other. :)

...tucked her into bed?

Please tell me that's slang for you had mad, passionate, drunk sex with her. I mean, if you can't get laid by your wife when she's been drinking, I think someone needs to bump that marriage sex thread for you. :D

[mattwakeman]

A saying:

The naive always forgive and forget,
The stupid never forgive and forget,
The wise forgive but never forget.

[albionmoonlight]

A PhD is married to this guy? Wow. You handled the situation very well. I echo most of this thread.

EagleFan--At what resturant does your wife work?

[Buzzbee]

Albionmoonlight now has a Mrs. Albion. Perhaps an EaglesFans/Albions get together might be in order.

[Noop]

That was not the worst crime in history.

I would avoid all contact with him.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I agree with the rest. No reason to hangout with this guy.

[hhiipp]

Makeup sex pics plz, k thx.

[albionmoonlight]

Albionmoonlight now has a Mrs. Albion. Perhaps an EaglesFans/Albions get together might be in order.
Would be cool had we not just moved to North Carolina.

[Buccaneer]

I disagree with the earlier trend in this thread, including the silly macho talk. What if it were your parents that said this under the same circumstances or god forbid, your wife? People, including friends and loved ones, say stupid things. Each of one us say stupid things and I have believed that for every stupid thing I say (whether to my wife, parents or friends), I deserve one back. Relationships with others do require a thick skin (that's my #1 advice for marriage) and forgiveness. Yes, it is hard to forget but relationships of all kind do require a series of compromise and forgiveness. We are supposed to love one another.

In this particular case, it was right to have left under the circumstances. It is also important that everyone knows why (which I think it's obvious to all). If your wife really enjoys their company and wants to continue, including on occassion, involving as couples, then that's where a compromise on your part comes in. It is true that you would not feel the same as you did before but you can still go along if your wife desires and go through the motions. Eventually, the relationship might whither or might become stronger because of forgiveness and maturity in lessons learned. It is easy, as I have learned, to shelter oneselves from everyone but part of life and wisdom is learn how to accept, love, forgive and compromise for sake of having relationships. I have been learning this lesson very recently.

[kcchief19]

I agree with Bucc's sentiment, but I think this crossed a line. It's not like Mrs. Eaglesfan is asking him to hang out with a couple who likes to go to watch off-shore yacht racing and he hates it -- she would be asking him to hang out with a man who said he wished he was dead. That is not a compromise he should have to make, it's a compromise she should have to make. Her enjoyment from mingling with this couple does not out weight the pain this would cause him, and if she thought that it did then I would worry about here.

I'm sure on a conscious and/or subconscious level she's worried how a falling out like this might affect her work relationships. You hate to have a malcontent who may bad-mouth you to other employees for personal reasons. Unfortunately, it's also a reason why I have always tried to limit personal involvement with my coworkers -- I might find out I hate these people and can't work with them anymore.

I would never feel right about this guy, but it's possible given some time your feelings won't be as strong as they are now.

On a side note -- anybody waiting for Bragadociousssss to show up and take the other guy's side?

[Maple Leafs]

She thinks they are a great couple and we have had so much fun with them, and we should forgive him "because he was really drunk." On a related note, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who has a wife who is hell-bent on acquiring "couple friends". While I've never been a situation like Eagle's, my wife will tolerate any amount of wasted evenings and outright boredom to collect a couple friend. Most of our friends are either primarily mine (i.e. drunken, goofy, frat-house type sports fans) or hers (i.e. losers^H^H^H^H^H^H um, people with different social priorities than mine). When we find an actual couple made up of people we can both tolerate, we must appease these people at all costs, apparently.

[JonInMiddleGA]

When we find an actual couple made up of people we can both tolerate, we must appease these people at all costs, apparently..

Apparently this is not as uncommon a situation as I've begun to think after 10 yrs of marriage. "Tolerate" is about as much as seen managed in that time, another couple whose company we both enjoy equally really just doesn't seem to be realistic.

[Buzzbee]

Would be cool had we not just moved to North Carolina.

You would think I would've known that with the IHOF absence. Where's that dunce cap.

[Cuckoo]

.

Apparently this is not as uncommon a situation as I've begun to think after 10 yrs of marriage. "Tolerate" is about as much as seen managed in that time, another couple whose company we both enjoy equally really just doesn't seem to be realistic.

I was going to say the same thing. My wife and I have no couple friends at all. We found a couple (a friend of mine from college and his new wife) whose company we really enjoyed and thought we had finally hit the jackpot. Then, they joined the Peace Corps and are off to the South Pacific for three years. Maybe they didn't like our company as much as we liked theirs... :D

[Eaglesfan27]

I disagree with the earlier trend in this thread, including the silly macho talk. What if it were your parents that said this under the same circumstances or god forbid, your wife? People, including friends and loved ones, say stupid things. Each of one us say stupid things and I have believed that for every stupid thing I say (whether to my wife, parents or friends), I deserve one back. Relationships with others do require a thick skin (that's my #1 advice for marriage) and forgiveness. Yes, it is hard to forget but relationships of all kind do require a series of compromise and forgiveness. We are supposed to love one another.

In this particular case, it was right to have left under the circumstances. It is also important that everyone knows why (which I think it's obvious to all). If your wife really enjoys their company and wants to continue, including on occassion, involving as couples, then that's where a compromise on your part comes in. It is true that you would not feel the same as you did before but you can still go along if your wife desires and go through the motions. Eventually, the relationship might whither or might become stronger because of forgiveness and maturity in lessons learned. It is easy, as I have learned, to shelter oneselves from everyone but part of life and wisdom is learn how to accept, love, forgive and compromise for sake of having relationships. I have been learning this lesson very recently.

I'll agree that the macho talk was silly and a response to being hurt and angry. However, I'll respectfully disagree with most of the remainder of your reply. People do stay stupid things, and I'll forgive most of what people say and just let it wash off my back. However, this guy stated that he wanted me, my parents, my grandparents, their ancestors, and an entire group of people dead. I even gave him a chance to cover this up if it was a slip of a tongue by asking him if I had heard him correctly. This is beyond just a stupid thing that he said. This is a racist hurtful statement.

If my wife made this statement, she wouldn't be my wife anymore. She is not Jewish, doesn't have any Jewish ancestory, but I like to think in 3 years of dating her before marriage and 5 years of marriage I would have discovered if she had any racist tendencies. I don't believe she does. So, I can't even fathom her saying something like this. If she did and stood by it like this guy did, that would be the end of our marriage.

However, we've had fights before (what married couple hasn't after 5 years) and she has said some other stupid things, some even hurtful, but nothing that approaches this level. I've forgiven everything that she has said in these situations.

As far as my parents saying what this guy said. It's unfathomable. They would be speaking against themselves and their race. Now, I could imagine the small possibility that her father might say something like this. If he did, I would certainly lose what respect I have for him, but I'm not sure if I would cut off all ties with him or not. I probably wouldn't, but I wouldn't invite him over as much as we do now and the relationship we have (which is good) would be changed. However, this is a guy I've only met 6-8 times. Yes, Ms. Eaglesfan and I have really enjoyed this couple's company. Yes, we want couple friends. However, why should I put up with this guys genocidal views.

After 8 hours of good sleep, I no longer want to kick his ass. I just have no desire to ever see him again. Fortunately, Ms. Eaglesfan still agrees this morning.

As far as my wife, I do compromise for her quite a bit, and I've spent some really boring evenings (at least to me) with friends of hers. She is a few years younger than me, and likes to hang out in clubs and bars still, and I've done that with her plenty of times. I've hung out with 2 sets of "couple friends" quite a few times even though I haven't really enjoyed it for one reason or another. Likewise, she compromises for me plenty as well. I agree that compromise is key to any relationship. It is only a matter of deciding who should compromise in which situation. Unfortunately, it is usually me that has to compromise ;) However, in this case, she knows that it is her that needs to do so, and she is willing to do so.

As someone mentioned, I generally don't make friends with people from work. Rather, I don't hang out with people from work, but I make only casual friends at work. She on the other hand likes to go out with people from work, and this isn't the first relationship that has soured at work because of something that happened outside of work. It's a shame, and I feel bad that she has to head off to work and work with this guy (however indirectly) now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Interesting to see that it is not just my wife (and me to a lesser extent) that are working to search for "couple friends."

I was really sad to see our last set of "couple friends" move, but he has a degree in Aeronautical engineering (we had fascinating conversations that mostly went over my head) and he got a job that was too good to pass up in New Mexico. They are/were the only "couple friends" we have had that we both really enjoyed hanging out with. As others have said, "toleration" has been the level we have reached most times with only one of us really enjoying the time together.

Anyway, interesting to see that this isn't just my wife that has this drive. I knew it wasn't, but I didn't really realize how common this was.

[Dutch]

Tough situation, let us know how it turns out.

[Flasch186]

you, she, and everyone on here handled it with your actions, and the FOFC's advice (which is usually incredibly good) were dead on. That guy is a shmuck and deserves to live in his angered state. Im glad I dont have to carry such a burden.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I was going to say the same thing. My wife and I have no couple friends at all. We found a couple (a friend of mine from college and his new wife) whose company we really enjoyed and thought we had finally hit the jackpot. Then, they joined the Peace Corps and are off to the South Pacific for three years. Maybe they didn't like our company as much as we liked theirs... :D

Arlie and I have the same problem, except all of our "couple friends" get pregnant and have babies. With no kids of our own, we can't offer play dates or anything to amuse their kids so they get busy with family life that they just drift off.

[Eaglesfan27]

Arlie and I have the same problem, except all of our "couple friends" get pregnant and have babies. With no kids of our own, we can't offer play dates or anything to amuse their kids so they get busy with family life that they just drift off.

That is a big part of the problem as well. Most of the couples that I know from various places whom we might like to hang out with already have kids.

[Cuckoo]

Arlie and I have the same problem, except all of our "couple friends" get pregnant and have babies. With no kids of our own, we can't offer play dates or anything to amuse their kids so they get busy with family life that they just drift off.

Yep, except we're on the other side of it. We have a little girl so some of our couple friends don't want to do things as often since they don't have kids of their own.

[GrantDawg]

Yep, except we're on the other side of it. We have a little girl so some of our couple friends don't want to do things as often since they don't have kids of their own.
We have kids that actually BEHAVE! It seems to be hard to find another couple with such.

[Cuckoo]

We have kids that actually BEHAVE! It seems to be hard to find another couple with such.

Well, ours is two so we're on the other side of that too. :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

We have kids that actually BEHAVE! It seems to be hard to find another couple with such.

I'll just sit over here in the corner & shout "Amen !" on that one.

{How old are yours anyway?}

[GrantDawg]

I'll just sit over here in the corner & shout "Amen !" on that one.

{How old are yours anyway?}
9 and 1. Of course, the one year old is sort of young "behave," but he still less trouble than 95% of our friends kids who are much older. It drives me crazy that people will not teach their kids the meaning of the word no.

[Tekneek]

I have a hard time being tolerant of most people, or they can't tolerate me. :)

I wouldn't classify wishing all the Jews dead as just a stupid remark. I would likely never forgive someone for making such a statement in a serious nature anyway. Add in his reasoning for it, and the man is pretty much trash. I find that kind of talk reprehensible and would find it impossible to disregard. In order to prevent difficult/violent confrontations, I would prefer to avoid them forever.

[sterlingice]

I seriously can't believe there are people like this in the world. I mean, seriously. Every time I read about something like this, I just realize that I just don't know people like I thought I did. Then again, I'm also ignorant in the fact that if you lined up 10 people and told me to pick out the 5 people who were Jewish, I couldn't do it accurately to save my life.

I would wait a day or two, and then revisit the subject and explain how much it hurt you and how personally you took it. Understand that she might want to continue a friendship with one or both of them, but that you don't have to be a part of the friendship. If it were me and this happened to radii I would dissolve the friendship immediately, but I don't know your wife so I can't speak for her or what I think she should do.
So, what number are we up to now? Reason #504 why girls aren't allowed to post on this board. Pshaw- rationally and patience. Enough touchy feely, onto the skull bashing ;)

On a related note, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who has a wife who is hell-bent on acquiring "couple friends". While I've never been a situation like Eagle's, my wife will tolerate any amount of wasted evenings and outright boredom to collect a couple friend. Most of our friends are either primarily mine (i.e. drunken, goofy, frat-house type sports fans) or hers (i.e. losers^H^H^H^H^H^H um, people with different social priorities than mine). When we find an actual couple made up of people we can both tolerate, we must appease these people at all costs, apparently.
No offense to anyone else on the board, but, man, ML, you are easily my favorite poster to read stuff from. The sarcasm just drips off of your post.

...tucked her into bed?

Please tell me that's slang for you had mad, passionate, drunk sex with her. I mean, if you can't get laid by your wife when she's been drinking, I think someone needs to bump that marriage sex thread for you. :D
Well, but if it's not a concern on a normal night then why bother. I mean, drunk, uncoordinated, and out of it don't sound like a killer trio for that activity.

SI

[Buccaneer]

Eaglesfan: I said my piece because I can relate. I know it is a tough situation and know what you feel. The solution for most of my life, when others have said very hurtful things to me, have been to withdraw and to continue to be a loner. I look back and while pain is still there, I know I have missed out on some relationship, or at least learn how to have better relationships. You started off by saying 'you have very few couple friends' and now by circumstances, you probably have even less than a few. Some day you or I may end up with having no couple friends and then wonder if that is healthy. While I would end up agreeing with you on this specific case, I guess one has to examine whether a short-term loss is worth it in the long run. Probably my only advice in this case would be to be open in the future because people can change. It would be sad if the other person has changed but you have not.

I know your wife or parents would not say something like this but they could/would say stupid, hurtful things, I assume. I have one of my parents say and act very stupidly about a particular subject but I cannot stop loving and being a son. I have said stupid things to my wife over the years, yet she still loves me because the long-term joy of a relationship is worth all of the short-term pains. People have said very stupid things here at FOFC that affect me personally (and I, likewise, have done the same), but I still work at this peculiar form of relationship because what I learn in the long run makes it worth the short-term stupidness. It all becomes part of wisdom.

[lurker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliegirl
I would wait a day or two, and then revisit the subject and explain how much it hurt you and how personally you took it. Understand that she might want to continue a friendship with one or both of them, but that you don't have to be a part of the friendship. If it were me and this happened to radii I would dissolve the friendship immediately, but I don't know your wife so I can't speak for her or what I think she should do.

So, what number are we up to now? Reason #504 why girls aren't allowed to post on this board. Pshaw- rationally and patience. Enough touchy feely, onto the skull bashing



Uh, there are those of us girls who think the sentiment expressed above is bullshit. I'm all for talking things out if it's an issue where one side should be willing to compromise, but this is an issue that shouldn't be up for debate, and thankfully his wife realized that.

This doesn't even seem like it should be an issue of whether or not it affected Eaglesfan personally. This guy is just a terrible person and no one intelligent, regardless of their religion should choose to be friends with someone like that. I'm not Jewish, but I've stopped being friends with someone for making similar comments; it didn't even occur to me to continue the friendship. These are people with so little moral fiber they can't even understand why genocide is a bad thing. What possible good could come out of associating with them?

Sorry, I'm just getting so angry thinking about this. You did the right thing.

[Eaglesfan27]

Well, but if it's not a concern on a normal night then why bother. I mean, drunk, uncoordinated, and out of it don't sound like a killer trio for that activity.

SI

I agree.

[Eaglesfan27]

Eaglesfan: I said my piece because I can relate. I know it is a tough situation and know what you feel. The solution for most of my life, when others have said very hurtful things to me, have been to withdraw and to continue to be a loner. I look back and while pain is still there, I know I have missed out on some relationship, or at least learn how to have better relationships. You started off by saying 'you have very few couple friends' and now by circumstances, you probably have even less than a few. Some day you or I may end up with having no couple friends and then wonder if that is healthy. While I would end up agreeing with you on this specific case, I guess one has to examine whether a short-term loss is worth it in the long run. Probably my only advice in this case would be to be open in the future because people can change. It would be sad if the other person has changed but you have not.

I know your wife or parents would not say something like this but they could/would say stupid, hurtful things, I assume. I have one of my parents say and act very stupidly about a particular subject but I cannot stop loving and being a son. I have said stupid things to my wife over the years, yet she still loves me because the long-term joy of a relationship is worth all of the short-term pains. People have said very stupid things here at FOFC that affect me personally (and I, likewise, have done the same), but I still work at this peculiar form of relationship because what I learn in the long run makes it worth the short-term stupidness. It all becomes part of wisdom.

You bring up some good points. Fortunately, I have lots of "my friends" that I hang out with and some of "my wife's" friends that I hang out with when I want/need to be sociable. In this particular case, it is easy to let this guy go. Also, I know there are other couples out there, and I'm sure we'll meet a cool couple to hang out with at some point in the future. As far as my other friends, they have said some stupid things, but nothing that was this extreme. So, I forgive and continue to be friends with them. I agree that as a general principle forgiveness and tolerance is a good thing. My wife has said things that have been hurtful in the short term, and I have on occasion too (fortunately that is very rare on either of our parts) and we have forgiven each other for the very reasons that you state. I know that humans are fallible and it is important to forgive each other when appropriate. However, I think people in your life can cross a line of basic decency by such a wide margin (even parents in some cases) that you have to cut your losses and move on.

Of course for each person this line is different. If one is too strict in setting this line, they can potentially end up a sad, lonely, bitter person. I think my line is pretty lenient and I'm pretty happy with my broad social network (particularly as opposed to 15-20 years ago when I was painfully shy.)

I commend you for changing, and I hope to continue to improve as I age too. Also, thanks for a thoughtful post that really made me think about another situation.

[sterlingice]

Uh, there are those of us girls who think the sentiment expressed above is bullshit. I'm all for talking things out if it's an issue where one side should be willing to compromise, but this is an issue that shouldn't be up for debate, and thankfully his wife realized that.

This doesn't even seem like it should be an issue of whether or not it affected Eaglesfan personally. This guy is just a terrible person and no one intelligent, regardless of their religion should choose to be friends with someone like that. I'm not Jewish, but I've stopped being friends with someone for making similar comments; it didn't even occur to me to continue the friendship. These are people with so little moral fiber they can't even understand why genocide is a bad thing. What possible good could come out of associating with them?

Sorry, I'm just getting so angry thinking about this. You did the right thing.
For once, it wasn't me that missed the winking smiley that signifies sarcasm...

SI

[Franklinnoble]

I think Mrs. Franklinnoble would have kicked the guy's ass before I had a chance to.

[Blackadar]

Eaglesfan: I said my piece because I can relate. I know it is a tough situation and know what you feel. The solution for most of my life, when others have said very hurtful things to me, have been to withdraw and to continue to be a loner. I look back and while pain is still there, I know I have missed out on some relationship, or at least learn how to have better relationships. You started off by saying 'you have very few couple friends' and now by circumstances, you probably have even less than a few. Some day you or I may end up with having no couple friends and then wonder if that is healthy. While I would end up agreeing with you on this specific case, I guess one has to examine whether a short-term loss is worth it in the long run. Probably my only advice in this case would be to be open in the future because people can change. It would be sad if the other person has changed but you have not.

I know your wife or parents would not say something like this but they could/would say stupid, hurtful things, I assume. I have one of my parents say and act very stupidly about a particular subject but I cannot stop loving and being a son. I have said stupid things to my wife over the years, yet she still loves me because the long-term joy of a relationship is worth all of the short-term pains. People have said very stupid things here at FOFC that affect me personally (and I, likewise, have done the same), but I still work at this peculiar form of relationship because what I learn in the long run makes it worth the short-term stupidness. It all becomes part of wisdom.

Bucc, my problem with your position is that I believe there are certain things that are unexcusable. Period. There's a line that someone can cross from which there's no turning back. It appears you're saying "forgive and forget". Screw that. Life is too short to try to deal with bigoted idiots like that guy.

If the guy called back and apologized when he sobered up, then maybe. Just maybe. It would depend on the nature of the apology. Otherwise, I wouldn't piss on that guy if he were on fire.

Now when you speak of your family...well, blood is a bit thicker. In some ways, you don't have much of a choice - it's family, and you're stuck with them (though there are certain boundaries even they can't cross). This isn't.

[Buccaneer]

If the guy called back and apologized when he sobered up, then maybe. Just maybe. It would depend on the nature of the apology. Otherwise, I wouldn't piss on that guy if he were on fire.
That's my point. A person can change and we have to be open for that. When a changed person comes to you and asks for friendship, you must not be the one that cannot be changed (by holding a grudge for a lifetime). Whether a person of this stripe will ever change, I don't know but I was speaking more in general.

[rkmsuf]

Maybe it was just a Tom E type joke. No big deal.

[Flasch186]

I dont believe whether or not he changes is a part of the discussion. Up to this point were basing our advice on the information given, not connecting dots to an if, when situation. If the guy calls and apologizes and "changes" then we can start a new thread about THAT, but as of this thread, the guy deserves to live in anger and not have any civilized friends. IMO :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

... I wouldn't piss on that guy if he were on fire.

Hey, I didn't know anybody else around here used that expression.
(Although I don't believe I use it very often online, it's one of my most common phrases IRL).

[condors]

the only couple friend my wife and i have been able to maintain is a friend she used to work with, drops her husband off we watch football they go shopping, they bring back hoagies or something and we eat they leave i just sat in my lazyboy watching football the whole time only talking on commericals every so often. The guy is an alright guy i don't think we will ever has any special bonding we have tried to do things with all 4 of us going to the zoo, and aquarium worked out well but going to the movies never works we have to rent 2-4 viedos as we never agree on what to watch
i can only handle her friend in "limited" doses as she could win the lottery and complain about how her ticket was the wrong size for her to carry.

[Maple Leafs]

... drops her husband off we watch football they go shopping, they bring back hoagies or something and we eat they leave i just sat in my lazyboy watching football the whole time only talking on commericals every so often.Ah yes, the "husband play date". I know it well.

[rkmsuf]

the only couple friend my wife and i have been able to maintain is a friend she used to work with, drops her husband off we watch football they go shopping, they bring back hoagies or something and we eat they leave i just sat in my lazyboy watching football the whole time only talking on commericals every so often. The guy is an alright guy i don't think we will ever has any special bonding we have tried to do things with all 4 of us going to the zoo, and aquarium worked out well but going to the movies never works we have to rent 2-4 viedos as we never agree on what to watch
i can only handle her friend in "limited" doses as she could win the lottery and complain about how her ticket was the wrong size for her to carry.

I don't get that. Just stay home while the wife goes shopping then you don't have to engage in the filler chatter.

edit - nevermind...he gets dropped at your house.

[Flasch186]

recap of the argument my GF and i had:

her - we have to drive to Miss. in Oct. for a wedding.

me - k

her - we'll leave on Fri., drive back sunday.

me - k

her - On sunday iill drive on the way back.

me - k, but we'll listen to football the whole way back.

her - well, if i drive you could play on your laptop as a compromise

me - um, well, ill let you drive, ill be online on my laptop wirelessley for fantasy football, AND we'll listen to football the whole way <smile>

her - but......<sees im not joking> ok


gotta pick the battles and this one never even had a bullet shot.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ah yes, the "husband play date". I know it well.

Gold. :)

[lurker]

For once, it wasn't me that missed the winking smiley that signifies sarcasm...

SI

I knew you were being sarcastic, but I just used refuting what you said as a segue to express my opinion, which happened to be diametrically opposed to the opinion you quoted.

Why do all of these people want to hang out with couples anyway? Whenever we hang out with couples, it's a much more boring dynamic than if we're just hanging out with friends who may or may not be single.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Ah yes, the "husband play date". I know it well.

I need to schedule one of these.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why do all of these people want to hang out with couples anyway?

That's something that's been discussed around my household a few times, so I'll give you my two cents worth on it just for the heck of it.

It seems to provide, well, "validation" may not be the exact word but it's as close as I can come up with right now. It's reassuring somehow, IMO, to see both other couples who are "functioning" and to be aware of their disfunctions as well. Makes you feel more ... normal.

There's also the whole "common ground" aspect of it. Let's face it, my life & lifestyle really don't have much in common with your average single person (pretty much regardless of age). Once again, it's comforting somehow to not have to explain why you have certain schedules/priorities/thoughts/hassles/ worries/joys/etc/et al to someone, and it seems more likely to get "ah yes, I know it well" or have people who understand what you're talking about before you even finish a sentence if they also share the quirks of "couplehood".

[lurker]

Ah, I guess that makes sense. Maybe we have too many couple friends who are too much into their "couple-ness" and they're just annoying as hell to be around. For most of those people, I have more fun hanging out with them when their other half isn't around.

[rkmsuf]

I knew you were being sarcastic, but I just used refuting what you said as a segue to express my opinion, which happened to be diametrically opposed to the opinion you quoted.

Why do all of these people want to hang out with couples anyway? Whenever we hang out with couples, it's a much more boring dynamic than if we're just hanging out with friends who may or may not be single.

There comes a point when you run out of single friends or at least the supply is very low.

[Desnudo]

First I need to give you all some background:

My wife and I have had very few "friend couples" to hang out with as a couple. Most of our friends are single, and either one of us or the other hangs out with them. We've had a hard time finding couples that we both enjoy hanging out with. I think it is quite difficult to balance 4 people's personalities where they really all enjoy hanging out on a consistent or semi-consistent basis. Our favorite couple to hang out with recently moved away. Tonight was one of the few rare nights where we both had off early on a Saturday and we decided to go hang out with our now favorite couple to hang out with.

We all get along fairly well. My wife is very interested in classical music and culinary arts and this blends well with our friend's interests. Meanwhile the female component of the couple is very interested in psychology as she has a pHD in psychology and her husband is very interested in almost all sports, so this meshes well with some of my interests. They are both quite intelligent and we usually have some stimulating conversations. The 4 personalities mesh and we have had great times the dozen or so times we've gotten together over the past 6-8 months since we first met them. Oh yeah, Ms. Eaglesfan first met him because he works as a bartender at the restaurant where she is a chef.

Anyway, tonight was the first time he ever got really drunk. I don't drink heavily because I feel I need every brain cell and they are dying off on their own anyway. Now, I have the occasional drink, just not to excess. This guy was slamming them back tonight. He had 3 or 4 mixed drinks at dinner. Fortunately, he let his wife drive their car home to the house. We followed them to their house to hang out there. This was probably our third time to their house. He continued to drink and started doing a couple of shots of Goldenschlager (sp?). This was over the course of an hour or two. We were relaxing and watching the Olympics. Anyway, we started talking about the meaning of the rings and such which was fine. We transitioned to talking about terrorism and the potential threat at the games. Then, he said out of the blue, "I wish Hitler had killed all of those Jews. They killed Christ and deserve to die."

I thought I might have misheard him so I said, "What did you just say?"

He repeated, "I wish Hitler had killed all of those damn Jews."

3 of my 4 grandparents are/were Jewish (and the other one was part Jewish) and I have a clearly Jewish last name. I resisted my visceral reaction to punch him in the face hard and said, "You know my grandparents were all Jewish right."

He didn't apologize. He didn't say much of anything but he slammed his glass down and stormed out of the room. His wife looked mortified (despite being fairly drunk herself.) My wife looked embarassed (she was also somewhat drunk as I was the designated driver for getting us home.)

So now we are arguing. She thinks they are a great couple and we have had so much fun with them, and we should forgive him "because he was really drunk."

I believe that alcohol only disinhibits an individual, and it doesn't make them say stupid things that they don't believe on some level. I think the alcohol unveiled his true feelings and why should I want to hang out with someone who is so incredibly prejudiced.

Does anyone think I should forgive this guy, and hang out with this couple again?

I just wanted to say I think you handled this situation very well. There is no excuse for someone to make that type of comment, I don't care how drunk you are. Sometimes things are black and white, not gray. Those kinds of comments fall under the black and white category. I would be suprised if the guy had ever even met a Jewish person (before you) in his whole life, but that's how it seems to go.

[rkmsuf]

maybe you were on Punk'd.

[Eaglesfan27]

maybe you were on Punk'd.

ROFL. :D

[Dutch]

Well, the Jews did kill Jesus Christ and we forgave the Jews for that blunder. Sure, it took 1,946 years, but we can't just go on being pissed forever, right?

Give your little neo-nazi buddy another chance, outside of his tendendcies for genocide, he sounds like really nice guy.

Only--the next time he comes over, let him have Capri-Sun, no more goldschlarger for that guy.

[judicial clerk]

Life is too short to spend more time with this guy. His apology would be worthless. What would he say "sorry I told you how i really feel?"

Fighting isn't the answer. I am glad you were able to walk away form this guy's antics.

What is depressing is that his attitude (discrimination against jews, if not being in favor of geonicide against Jews) is prevelant in society. I wonder how many other people I know would admit to this kind of discriminatory attidude if I lowered their inhibitions with a little alcohol? I think that there are a lot of people out there who do not discuss their true attitudes and opinions in "mixed company" but habor discriminatory and racist attitudes.

[Tekneek]

I once made a comment, which I don't consider discriminatory, about demographics and more specifically the Jewish portion. A co-worker and I were going through the CIA World Factbook one day and, upon looking at the USA one, it said that the Jewish religion accounted for something like 2% of the population. I then said, "It seems surprising to me that only 2% of our population is Jewish and they have such political and economic power." He didn't say too much after that and wanted to quickly get back to work. Would anyone take offense to that?

I got concerned, but he told me that he thought nothing of it and was just really busy. I think it did bother him, but my explanation made sense. That's nothing like wishing them all dead, of course. I was genuinely curious because that stat really surprised me!

[Samdari]

.

Apparently this is not as uncommon a situation as I've begun to think after 10 yrs of marriage. "Tolerate" is about as much as seen managed in that time, another couple whose company we both enjoy equally really just doesn't seem to be realistic.

That is really surprising. Almost all of our friends are couples (although mostly one or other of the couple started as one of our friends, then coupled up). We find it pretty awkward when hanging out with unattached people as the dynamic always just seems wrong.

As to the original question, EagleFan, I can say unequivically that I have said many stupid things in my life while drunk, some I meant but should not have said, some were ideas that occured to me, or suggested to me, while drunk that would not have survived careful, sober scrutiny but made perfect sense at the time. I cannot begin to advise you as to which this dude's comment is, but alcohol impairs judgement at all levels, and thus can cause people to espouse things that they do not believe when sober.

[sterlingice]

It seems to provide, well, "validation" may not be the exact word but it's as close as I can come up with right now. It's reassuring somehow, IMO, to see both other couples who are "functioning" and to be aware of their disfunctions as well. Makes you feel more ... normal.
So it's the crappy reality tv or trashy talk show (Jerry Springer?) angle of "See... there are worse people than us!" feature?

SI

[Flasch186]

Well, the Jews did kill Jesus Christ and we forgave the Jews for that blunder. Sure, it took 1,946 years, but we can't just go on being pissed forever, right?

Give your little neo-nazi buddy another chance, outside of his tendendcies for genocide, he sounds like really nice guy.

Only--the next time he comes over, let him have Capri-Sun, no more goldschlarger for that guy.

not to start anything but there are some discrepencies as to whether or not Jews or Romans actually killed Jesus and which book you emphasize or claim as your source.

[Celeval]

Sliding slightly from the main topic of conversation - I personally wouldn't hang out with the guy again - if he really does feel strongly enough to say that type of thing, he may not want to get together with you again either. Which, imho, would not be a loss.

[Flasch186]

totally his loss, he is obviously not a "addition" to your life.

[Sharpieman]

I would have punched him, hey he was drunk anyways, he probably wouldn't have remembered.

[Blackadar]

Well, the Jews did kill Jesus Christ and we forgave the Jews for that blunder. Sure, it took 1,946 years, but we can't just go on being pissed forever, right?

Give your little neo-nazi buddy another chance, outside of his tendendcies for genocide, he sounds like really nice guy.

Only--the next time he comes over, let him have Capri-Sun, no more goldschlarger for that guy.

It's tough to be facetious on a message board, but you pulled it off well. :)

[Flasch186]

.....

Playfully jocular; humorous: facetious remarks

credit: Dictionary.com

cuz i had no idea.

[Dutch]

If Blackie got it, I really pulled off a good one. I was seriously expecting to get slammed for it. Thanks for laughing and not getting mad, the former was definately the idea! :)

[Draft Dodger]

we're lucky in that we have 2 pairs of "couple friends" here in town. and the 6 of us all get along relatively well - we get together all the time (the women have just gotten together & scheduled all the major events up through New Years Eve...how scary is that?). Even better, we all have similarly aged kids - we all had our first kid across a span of 13 months. One couple just had another one about a month ago, and we've got bun #2 in the oven as well. I'm really thankful for the way things have worked out for us in this way - we're really lucky.

kudos to Eaglesfan (and your wife) - you handled that terrible situation very well. I too am curious to see if the guy attempted an apology, and how you'll handle that. as a former heavy, heavy drinker, I can say that I've said many, many things that I had no intention of saying. True, they were often based on the thoughts in my subconcious, so this guy certainly has some issues in there somewhere, but perhaps not as severely as it seems. then again, maybe that was his true thought.

lots of really good, intelligent points in this thread.

[Eaglesfan27]

Just an update: So far he hasn't called to offer an apology. I'm not holding my breath waiting for one, but I have been thinking quite a bit today about how I would react should he call to offer one. I'm still not sure how I would react. Several scenarios have run through my mind.

[Draft Dodger]

Just an update: So far he hasn't called to offer an apology. I'm not holding my breath waiting for one, but I have been thinking quite a bit today about how I would react should he call to offer one. I'm still not sure how I would react. Several scenarios have run through my mind.

well, that speaks volumes, I think. if I had blurted out something as horrific as that, I know I'd be calling to apologize as soon as I sobered up. if not sooner. maybe he's too embarrassed, but that's no excuse for something like that.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

well, that speaks volumes, I think. if I had blurted out something as horrific as that, I know I'd be calling to apologize as soon as I sobered up. if not sooner. maybe he's too embarrassed, but that's no excuse for something like that.

Unless the guy really meant it. Then EaglesFan isn't due an apology becuase he should be dead - According to that SOB.

I'm curious how Mrs. EaglesFan's day at work was today.

[Axxon]

I believe that alcohol only disinhibits an individual, and it doesn't make them say stupid things that they don't believe on some level. I think the alcohol unveiled his true feelings and why should I want to hang out with someone who is so incredibly prejudiced.



Ok, I agree with the advice you've been given here so no need to go into detail there but I want to express an opinion on this.

I don't believe the bolded part above is accurate at all. Had you said, "that wasn't in their mind" I'd agree but not all thoughts that pass through our minds are deeply held true feelings. There's also emotions to consider; more nebulous than thoughts or beliefs and often more powerful.

An example, about 20 years ago, I was living in an apartment complex that had a water break and basically ruined several apartments, mine being one of them. After they fixed the problem they sent professional cleaners in to repair and clean up the damage.

This crew left several of the apartment glass doors unlocked ( mine included ) and came in later and cleaned us out. As you can imagine, I was very upset. I was angry and thought bad and evil thoughts to feed the anger and at the same time strangely enough sate it. It only partially worked.

That night some friends took me out and we got drunk. I was talking about the incident and I said something along the lines of "these guys suck. I wish they were all dead."

Now, was this

a) something I believed on some level

B) an emotional remnant of the earlier emotional episode that clearly wasn't over.

The answer is clearly B. It is true that I hadn't resolved the issue enough and that I was still fixed on it in my drunken state but in no way did I then or do I now want anyone to really die over it. It was a thought though that had clearly been on my mind that day and I'm sure that the alcohol picked up that thought and ran with it.

Now, we haven't walked a mile in this guys mocossins so we don't know what fueled that reaction nor whether it was emotion or true belief. Without knowing what fueled it, it would be impossible to say if he has convinced himself of this or not.

Maybe he'd had a horrible confrontation at work with someone jewish and had almost lost his job that morning. Maybe his landlord was threatening to evict him. Maybe he had just been served with a lawsuit, robbed, otherwise emotionally prompted etc that morning and these kinds of thoughts were on his mind. Irrational? Surely, most emotional reactions are but true beliefs? Not necessarily.

If he was in the middle of an anger episode maybe he couldn't apologize or back down, especially when drunk. Maybe by that time the alcohol and the emotions had won over his mind temporarily and he was past the point of no return. We have no way of knowing.

Still, I say life is too short for you to dwell on it so it makes no sense to continue the friendship as things stand now. I'm not disagreeing with that at all but the whole 'alcohol only brings out your true hidden feelings or things you truly believe' is a myth.

Well, maybe not a myth entirely but certainly only a part of a rather complex puzzle that is human thought, which is hard enough to understand without adding in outside chemical influences IMHO.

[Eaglesfan27]

Axxon,

Very interesting post with some good points. Still as you pointed out at the end, I see no reason to salvage this particular friendship. Buccaneer mentioned earlier how you have to be able to forgive people and he used the examples of family members, spouses, etc. The thing that is going through in my mind is that I only had hung out with this guy 6-8 times over a 6 month period or so. There is no deep emotional investment, and life is too short. I'm sure we'll meet some other cool couples to hang out with in the future.

Farrah,

Ms. Eaglesfan called me during her dinner break. The guy called out of work today (they were both scheduled to work 3-11 PM)

[Tom E]

He's just uneducated, he's just repeating things he heard as a kid...I doubt he'd ever hurt anybody, let alone you becuase your a Jew.

[Axxon]

He's just uneducated, he's just repeating things he heard as a kid...I doubt he'd ever hurt anybody, let alone you becuase your a Jew.

Did anyone actually think this guy was really going to start his genocide at eaglesfan27's house? ;)

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Farrah,

Ms. Eaglesfan called me during her dinner break. The guy called out of work today (they were both scheduled to work 3-11 PM)

What a coward.

[Axxon]

Ms. Eaglesfan called me during her dinner break. The guy called out of work today (they were both scheduled to work 3-11 PM)

Couple this with the no call back and I'd say it's quite possibly a case of extreme embarrasment. I may be wrong but it sounds like he's not ready to face either one of you now.

[sterlingice]

Did anyone actually think this guy was really going to start his genocide at eaglesfan27's house? ;)
Rabbi: Now, now, everyone calm down. We live in a rational community, and everyone knows this is just a movie. There's no cause for alarm.
Cartman's Mob: [from outside, marching in step] Wir müssen die Juden ausrotten!

SI

[Eaglesfan27]

Just a little update (likely a final one):

Mrs. Eaglesfan just woke up and told me that this guy sort of apologized at work last night (he had been at work for 2 nights previously without saying a word to her.) She says that he said, "I'm sorry for ruining the evening the other night."

He didn't apologize for the actual comment, just ruining the evening.

Mrs. Eaglesfan asked him if he was going to apologize to me.

He said, "I guess so."

Not surprisingly that answer doesn't sit well with me, not that it really matters as I'm done thinking about this guy.

[rkmsuf]

Not surprisingly that answer doesn't sit well with me, not that it really matters as I'm done thinking about this guy.

As of.............now.