CM Online

[Northwood_DK]

This sound interesting if they manage to pull it off.

http://www.cm-online.com/

WHAT IS CM-ONLINE?

Championship Manager Online is a co-operation between Swedish Jadestone Group and Eidos.

Now it's your turn - play the world champion in football management simulation online

The realism of Championship Manager is taken one step further: from MAN vs COMPUTER to MAN vs MAN.
Challenge yourself, your friends and fans all over the country by taking on the role as the manager for your favourite football team.

You have the same opportunities as managers in real life – your task is to beat reality and compete against other managers.

Train your team, select the players, play games, negotiate transfers and interact with other managers in the community.

Manage the best - Play the best - Be the best.

[Northwood_DK]

A bit more info from the developers Jadestone Groups homepage and an Q&A from Eidos.

2004-09-01
Jadestone and Eidos will launch Championship Manager Online
Jadestone and Eidos, one of the world’s leading publishers and developers of entertainment software, announces an online version of the number one selling football management simulation Championship Manager. Championship Manager Online will be playable at www.cm-online.com through subscription from January 2005.

Championship Manager Online will provide the realism and depth that have become hallmarks of the series. Choose to manage a club from one of six national leagues (England, Scotland, Italy, Spain, Germany and France) dealing with everything from transfers and tactics to training. New leagues will be added and the game will be continually updated to reflect changes in the real-world of football. You can also be kept informed of your team’s progress at all times via SMS. Within the game, users are grouped together in separate “worlds” meaning that there can only ever be one of each player and club in each individual world.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

CHAMPIONSHIP MANAGER ONLINE Q&A

GENERAL

Q. What is Championship Manager Online?
A. It is a persistent world, massive multiplayer online football management simulation where you get to pit your skills against other human players. CM-Online is a stand-alone product.

Q. How do I play it?
A. At www.cm-online.com
Up until January 2005 CM-Online will only be available to UK residents who have bought CM5 on PC. After this date is will be made publicly available!

Q. What will prevent people who haven’t bought CM5 playing CM-Online?
A. Each copy of CM5 on PC will contain a unique CMO access code

Q. When will it be available?
A. October, the same day Championship Manager 5 is released. Exact release date will be announced in early w/c 3rd September

Q. How much will it cost to play?
A. Amount TBC. The game will be subscription based. Purchasers of CM5 on PC will receive a ‘3 months for the price of 1’ subscription offer.

Q. How do I pay?
A. Credit card

Q. In which countries will it be available?
A. Initially it will only be available to UK residents. It will be available in other countries at a later date

Q. In which languages will it be available?
A. English only to begin with. Localised versions to follow in 2005

Q. Who is developing the game?
A. Jadestone(in conjunction with BGS). Based in Sweden, Jadestone was founded in 1999 and has a proven track-record of developing successful online games, including football management simulations

GAME

Q. What is the link between CM5 on PC and CM-Online?
A. They are separate standalone games, however CM-Online has the same ‘look and feel’ as CM5, uses a portion of the CM5 database and has a lot of the same features and underlying algorithms

Q. How does the game work?
A. Choose a team and then compete against thousands of other human players to see who is the best football manager.

Q. Can I start by managing any team?
A. No. As in the real world of football, you have to start off managing a lower league team. If you are successful you will then have the opportunity to manage a bigger club.

Alternatively, there will be an option to set-up leagues with your mates, and play as any team you like. These leagues are called “Buddy Leagues”. A Buddy League can consist of teams from different countries and also any number of duplicate teams. For example, a Buddy League could contain the following: Four Real Madrids, one AC Roma, two Manchester Uniteds, three Exeter Citys and one Malmo FF. As well as leagues you can create cup competitions. There are no transfers in Buddy Leagues, just pure tactics and matches.

Q. How do jobs at bigger clubs become available? Can I decide which club I want to manage?
A. Jobs at bigger clubs become available when a manager is sacked or leaves for another club. You need to apply for jobs when they become available, whether you are successful in your application depends on your track record

Q. How many users in each league?
It depends on a lot of factors, but moderators will ensure that there are enough human players to make it fun. There will be approximately a minimum 70% of human players in each world

Q. How many leagues?
A. At launch, CM-Online will feature 6 playable national leagues – England, Scotland, France, German, Italian and Spain. More leagues will be added later. Which leagues are available in your ‘world’ may vary and will to a certain extent be up to you.

Q. How many players?
A. CM-Online player database will be continually updated with the latest transfers and new comers. No more waiting for patches and data updates! The number will therefore be constantly changing.

Q. What if 1,000 users all wanted to be the manager of Chelsea?
A. CM-Online is split into different “worlds”. In each world for example, there is only one Chelsea and one Joe Cole. CM-Online has Game Masters who are responsible for creating the different worlds and deciding what countries and leagues should be active or not in that world. Any teams in a league not managed by a human player will be controlled by AI.

Q. When are the matches played?
A. Matches are played at midnight. The game will shut down for 30mins to an hour while the match resolver processes the results. When CM-Online is back online users will be able to view their matches in text only. Matches are played roughly every three days.

Q. Can you change team tactics?
A. The tactics screen will be very similar to that of CM5, although it will work slightly differently. Users are able to set different tactics for many different matches in advance. Because CM-Online is a persistent world users won't anyways have time to set tactics before games because of holidays, no internet access etc. Therefore, users can set different tactics for many different matches in advance.

Q. Training – How does this work?
A. The user will be able to select preset training schedules based on the CM5 training engine.

Q. How does the game handle player transfers?
A. Users will be able make transfer just like in any football sim although there will be no transfer window. Because worlds are created at different times of the year it is very difficult to have transfer windows.

Q. Will there be a tutorial?
A. There will be a short tutorial for all users before they enter their world.

Q. I thought you could already play the PC version of CM online?
A. You can play ‘peer-to-peer’ with friends. All players need a full copy of CM PC, the game is slow and never really a primary part of the game. Played via the internet just like other pc online games, one user would create a server and other users would join to play in the same world progressing at the same time. The host is the only person who continues the game. Therefore, players would have to wait for each other to complete manager tasks before the game can be continued. This is a very slow process! CM-Online allows users to enter their world at any time day or night to make changes to their team, make transfer bids etc.

Q. What are the demands on my computer?
A: For best experience you will need a PC and Internet Explorer 5.X or later and Macromedia Flash 7. These are free ware and can be downloaded here.
Flash: http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave...=ShockwaveFlash
Internet Explorer:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie...ds/default.mspx

Q. Is their a community within the game?
A: Yes. The game has different chat rooms and forums where managers discuss the game and other things related to football. The forums uses Game Masters and Moderators to keep the discussions on a decent level.

For more information, and a chance to register now, head over to http://www.cm-online.com/html/index.jsp to see what all the fuss is about!

[SirFozzie]

Uh... and this beats FM's server how?

[Alf]

I already play www.hattrick.org (http://www.hattrick.org/) , and it is gratis ;)

EDIT, as a quote to this
Q. When are the matches played?
A. Matches are played at midnight. The game will shut down for 30mins to an hour while the match resolver processes the results. When CM-Online is back online users will be able to view their matches in text only. Matches are played roughly every three days.

hattrick does a better job than that as we can see our game live online....

[FrogMan]

Uh... and this beats FM's server how?
Nothing beats my server.

FM

[JeeberD]

Too bad FOF On-line never happened... :(

[Desnudo]

From the CM5 site:

"Faster processing & constant gameplay
Access all screens as the game processes so you can constantly make decisions and changes. No waiting means constant action!"

Hmmm...

It may be sacrilege, but that alone may get me to try the offline version. In other news, is there some sort of law in England that all footie game websites must be byzantine and confusing? Eidos' is worse than SI's!

[Bee]

If anything this makes me less confident in the Eidos release. The more time they spend on this, the less they spend on things that are important to me (like the depth of the game). Also, speeding up the game processing is another thing that makes me a little concerned considering they are building a game from the ground up. Makes it sound like the depth of the game engine may be lacking. But who knows until it's out...

[Ramzavail]

I would give this a whirl, I remember www.soccersim.com when I was in college.

Now that was fun.

[Mac Howard]

>Championship Manager Online will provide the realism and depth that have become hallmarks of the series.

Interesting piece of marketing as CM5 has no contact whatsoever with the games that have established that reputation other than the name.

[Eaglesfan27]

>Championship Manager Online will provide the realism and depth that have become hallmarks of the series.

Interesting piece of marketing as CM5 has no contact whatsoever with the games that have established that reputation other than the name.Mac,

That and other underhanded moves like this by Eidos is one of the reasons that people in the other thread were discussing not judging CM5 and FM2005 from an equal starting point. A company's actions have consequences in my evaluation of their product.

[SirFozzie]

Mac,

That and other underhanded moves like this by Eidos is one of the reasons that people in the other thread were discussing not judging CM5 and FM2005 from an equal starting point. A company's actions have consequences in my evaluation of their product.


Bingo.

Eidos=Slimeball company.

[Mac Howard]

As I said there, in deciding whether to give your money to Eidos, then this is a perfectly rational thing to do, but in judging the game itself then using such double standards renders the comparisons meaningless.

Can you not see the distinction?

[Eaglesfan27]

As I said there, in deciding whether to give your money to Eidos, then this is a perfectly rational thing to do, but in judging the game itself then using such double standards renders the comparisons meaningless.

Can you not see the distinction?
I agree with that point. However, I don't think the original question was a comparision of the two games. The original question was about who was going to buy it. My perception of the company is the overriding factor in why I won't buy it.

I would agree that no one can make a valid comparsion of the games without trying each. However, I would argue that we all bring our own biases into any decision or comparsion. Even professional reviewers appear to have biases. I don't think you can ever do anything in a vacuum. You are never going to have that idealized comparsion that you appear to be seeking. Therefore, if one was to only post the utopian comparsion that you appear to seek, this board and the world would be an awfully sterile place.

[Mac Howard]

There's nothing utopian about using the same standards. Accepting that humans are incapable of addressing their biases would result in an appalling state of affairs. That's just a cop-out.

Look at it this way. CM5 may well be a good game. If it is, and it's recognised as such, then that will force Mark and his team to redouble their efforts and improve the FM series. In which case the SIGames fans will benefit. That's the point about competition. Competition benefits consumers all round.

But if the game is condemned regardless of the quality, it will disappear from view and the monopoly situations returns and progress slows down to a crawl. No one benefits. You become your own worst enemy.

It's silly. Punish Eidos by not buying. Give BGS the credit/criticism they deserve.

[Desnudo]

Or just play the demos and decide based on experience, not assumption.

[SlapBone]

I am capable of adressing my bias. I am completely biased! Eidos will not get a penny of my money while FM2005 will be purchased sight unseen. It's not my job to give them a "fair-shake". And also, due to my bias, I will travel the virtual highway preaching the gospel of what a crappy game CM5 will be (even though I will not even let it grace my hard-drive). Hell, it might even be a great game but I don't care.

[Marc Vaughan]

(in a vain effort to try and prevent this (and similar threads) turning into a tit-for-tat)

For all games I'd suggest giving the demo's a whirl and simply purchasing the one you enjoy the most.

PS. Football Manager beta demo will be available both online and on our magazine in around a month (and obviously we'll go our usual Gold Master demo when the game goes 'Gold') ...

[Mac Howard]

Unless things have changed in the UK since I left, I would have thought this was illegal advertising, Marc. They're clearly promoting a product using the good reputation of one with which it has no connection. When I first read it even I thought it was based on existing versions of CM so your average gamer, who may have no understanding of the split between you and Eidos, may happily take up the product believing it to be based on the games he has enjoyed. Then he finds it's something completely different.

Of course this was obviously their intention when they kept the name :)

[Mota]

Is this any different from movie sequels which have the same name (From Dusk Till Dawn 2, Cruel Intentions 2), even though none of the creators or cast from the original movies are affilliated with the project? All these movies have is a studio that owns the rights to name and decide that they want to capitalize on this for a quick buck.

[Marc Vaughan]

I don't believe that Eidos are doing anything unprofessional or illegal - its simply sensible business practice really.

In the long-term I'm confident that the best game will win out, I'm obviously hopefully that'll be Football Manager - but time will tell.

With regards to their online venture I wish Eidos all the best, for now SI will continue to concentrate all our efforts onto ensuring that FM is the best game possible and FM will of course retain our normal online play mode.

[Desnudo]

Is this any different from movie sequels which have the same name (From Dusk Till Dawn 2, Cruel Intentions 2), even though none of the creators or cast from the original movies are affilliated with the project? All these movies have is a studio that owns the rights to name and decide that they want to capitalize on this for a quick buck.

Like Star Wars Episodes I-III?

[Alf]

bump it up

I've seen a few friends try it , and, well, for £4 / month, they feel they are paying for a game still in development mode....

Anyone playing here ?

[SirFozzie]

a game released way too soon, with tons of Bugs and a feeling you paid to be a beta tester?


From Eidos?

I'm shocked AND appalled. How unlike them

[SlapBone]

It will all be over soon.

The beginning of the end will be when they sell off their Hitman franchise for $300,000.

Lara will be right behind him.

[FrogMan]

bump it up

I've seen a few friends try it , and, well, for £4 / month, they feel they are paying for a game still in development mode....

Anyone playing here?
I'm not playing but wanted to comment on the price. I just realized/saw the £4 per month price, woah, that's £48 per year (used my calculator to get that figure btw) and woah, that's not cheap (used my common sense to come to that conclusion ;) )...

Compared to what I pay to "support" Hattrick ($30cdn per year, which is not mandatory, I could play without paying), and what I paid for my copy of FM2005 (£24.95 shipping included), with which I've already logged over 200 hours of play, it is amazingly pricey...

FM

FM

[Critch]

I've wanted to boycott Eidos ever since the Braveheart disaster, but CM always made me break that boycott. Now I have no such problem.

Boycott Eidos.

[SirFozzie]

Welcome to the fold Critch ;)

[Anthony]

1. that Braveheart game sucked? i was thisclose to giving it a whirl. good decision i guess.

2. i have no allegiance to any game company. if EA made a fantastic football sim that was clearly better than what Solecismic was offering, guess what...i'm getting the EA version. from where i stand EA didn't steal my money by makig me buy a crappy game, didn't spit in my face or insult my mother, so as far as i'm concerned i'm square with EA. what goes on between the company and the individual creator is...say it with me...between the company and the indivual creator.

i'm sure Marc is a fine upstanding member of society, but at the end of the day that won't make me boycott something by Eidos. (fwiw, i've already decided to pickup FM, but that was more through the word of mouth here than me having an overwhelming sense of "stick it to the man and let me support Marc"). i don't know the entire Eidos/SI story, because it doesn't concern me. the end result does. which game has more of the features that i like. i don't know Marc or anyone at SI, i don't know if they hit babies in their off-time or throw dogs out of moving vehicles.

SI wants to make money, the same as Eidos. i think it's silly to think the SI is above such things like making decisions that would result in the most profits for them. i see it all the time here. EA/Eidos are the bad, evil companies. Solecismic/SI are the benevolent, saintly companies. you mostly have no information to go by often times other than speculation and word from the horse's mouths (Jim, Marc). you might feel different if people from Eidos had the same face time around here as Marc does. there isn't a coincidence that the very companies you people want to back sight unseen have developers that have a big presence here that you all can interact with.

[Critch]

1. that Braveheart game sucked? i was thisclose to giving it a whirl. good decision i guess.

Braveheart was released in a state where it was blatantly unfinished, plus a number of the features mentioned on the box had been removed to rush it out. It was never patched to a state where it was worthwhile, Eidos responses were either "nothing we can do, the dev team are doing other things now" or "shut up, the game works" plus banning people from their boards for mentioning the game was unfinished.

Despite never being playable, Braveheart got a gold star review from one of the game mags. It got the gold star review far enough in advance that it could be printed on the game's box. Not just a sticker, printed. So that brought into question how a game that wasn't ever finished could have been reviewed as an award winner by an independent magazine months before it's release. Rumors of the reviewer never seeing anything more than a list of features and a gameplay video demo, plus Eidos reminding the magazine that Eidos gave them a lot of advertizing cash so maybe a positive review would be a good idea were all over the place.

Braveheart should have been a great game, with the original features it would have been ambitiously ahead of it's time. Instead it was an unplayable mess that crashed frequently and was pretty laughable when it didn't crash.

Sorry for droning on about Braveheart, back to the CM-smacking :)

[condors]

just want to say i agree with you HA up to a point.

Jim releases patch after patch making sure everything is good with TCY and FOF you think a patch for an EA game that was released a couple years ago is ever even considered? Jim has done it a few times with TCY not post a message that TCY2 is in development and no longer support the orginal product.

Marc i believe takes FM (and CM before that) very personally. I honestly believe that if Marc logged onto the board and there were a bunch of FOFC people upset with a unkown bug creeped up in the 5.05 version. He would do everything he could to correct this.

I think customer service displayed by smaller companies is worth something to me.

I support a number of 1 man operations and will continue to do so.

I may not always be happy with the game or have a complaint but when i get a respone and a reason and shown the other side of an issue even if i disagree i am more inclined to purchase again at a later date with the next release.

[SirFozzie]

The ONE thing I fault SI/Marc on is the "Unknown" ref bug that's creeped in on 5.0.3 and 5.0.5. Kinda disappointing to have the state championships in Brazil reffed exclusively by Mr Unknown. Heard it happening in Serie 2/C in Italy and elsewhere.. Too bad there's no random ref file generator :)

[Anthony]

just want to say i agree with you HA up to a point.

Jim releases patch after patch making sure everything is good with TCY and FOF you think a patch for an EA game that was released a couple years ago is ever even considered? Jim has done it a few times with TCY not post a message that TCY2 is in development and no longer support the orginal product.

Marc i believe takes FM (and CM before that) very personally. I honestly believe that if Marc logged onto the board and there were a bunch of FOFC people upset with a unkown bug creeped up in the 5.05 version. He would do everything he could to correct this.

I think customer service displayed by smaller companies is worth something to me.

I support a number of 1 man operations and will continue to do so.

I may not always be happy with the game or have a complaint but when i get a respone and a reason and shown the other side of an issue even if i disagree i am more inclined to purchase again at a later date with the next release.

nature of the beast. much easier for a "grass-roots" type company to have it's ear to the ground and take the pulse of its customers. not really par for the course. this is, for all intents and purposes, just a fan site, it's a lot to ask huge companies to frequent any ole message board (and a small one, at that) to have one-on-one conversations with it's customers. you can't fault EA for being so big that it can be viewed as being out of touch with its consumer base.

i don't know how big or small SI is, but i do know there's a direct relation between the sentiment of companies like Solecismic and SI games, companies where you get to talk to the actual developer (and in some cases even participate in the same league as them), and the sentiment of huge corporations that don't have the set up to reach out to every Tom, Dick and Harry. no one feels sorry about EA or Eidos because they don't have representatives from their companies posting in some of our silly threads. seriously - you really think EA wants to check out message boards like FOFC and wade through about 10 parody threads, some political threads and the rest all filler just to find that one thread where we talked about a potential bug in one of their games? again, you ask too much and aren't being realistic. :)

that still doesn't mean you have to grab a sword and help these small companies fight the good fight. if they had their way they'd generate enough revenue to be huge corporations themselves, they don't make these games out of the kindness of their hearts. you can't concern yourself with the business dealings between companies - just focus on who puts out the games that you like the most. whatever happened between Eidos and SI doesn't concern you, like .400, Joe Stallings and Arles...none of your business. you only punish yourself by boycotting games for silly reasons.

so, again, i have no allegiance to Jim, Marc or whomever. Jim isn't my brother, i don't have to support him sight unseen. at the end of the day he still has to earn my money. my money goes to the best games, not exactly the best companies.

[Huckleberry]

nature of the beast. much easier for a "grass-roots" type company to have it's ear to the ground and take the pulse of its customers. not really par for the course. this is, for all intents and purposes, just a fan site, it's a lot to ask huge companies to frequent any ole message board (and a small one, at that) to have one-on-one conversations with it's customers. you can't fault EA for being so big that it can be viewed as being out of touch with its consumer base.

i don't know how big or small SI is, but i do know there's a direct relation between the sentiment of companies like Solecismic and SI games, companies where you get to talk to the actual developer (and in some cases even participate in the same league as them), and the sentiment of huge corporations that don't have the set up to reach out to every Tom, Dick and Harry. no one feels sorry about EA or Eidos because they don't have representatives from their companies posting in some of our silly threads. seriously - you really think EA wants to check out message boards like FOFC and wade through about 10 parody threads, some political threads and the rest all filler just to find that one thread where we talked about a potential bug in one of their games? again, you ask too much and aren't being realistic. :)

that still doesn't mean you have to grab a sword and help these small companies fight the good fight. if they had their way they'd generate enough revenue to be huge corporations themselves, they don't make these games out of the kindness of their hearts. you can't concern yourself with the business dealings between companies - just focus on who puts out the games that you like the most. whatever happened between Eidos and SI doesn't concern you, like .400, Joe Stallings and Arles...none of your business. you only punish yourself by boycotting games for silly reasons.
Responsive customer service is anything but a silly reason.

I don't think it's been claimed that there isn't an explanation for the higher response rate from smaller companies. It's simply a situation where many people, both here and elsewhere, value customer service very highly.

Those that value responsiveness and service more highly will tend to purchase games and items from the small publishers. Seems to me that he already is "just focus(ing) on who puts out the games that (he) like(s) the most."

[Anthony]

the level of customer service you seek is not reasonable. you just don't go to msn.com and post a bug and hours later Bill Gates replies "why don't you send me your files and i'll have a look".

if Marc Vaughn receives critical acclaim and goes on to become a Peter Molyneaux - you think he'd have the time to come to FOFC? if so then great. but his service is a byproduct of the smallness of SI (and i understand SI is a rather big company, but it's no EA or MS size-wise). what, then, would you think of your SI if you didn't get that one-on-one interaction?

i'm gonna risk sounding like a broken record, so i'll try to bow out. i jsut think it's funny that a good company in your eyes is one that has its employees come to this joke of a website and participate in the schlock that gets posted. not entirely reasonable expectations in my book.

[Lucky Jim]

i don't know how big or small SI is

That's the thing about SI, they're actually pretty big. SI doesn't self publish their games like Jim, they're published by Sega now after the split with Eidos. Not to mention FM/CM is the sort of game that breaks sales records in the UK and Europe. They are not a "grass roots" type company in that sense, they just have class staff that act that way. When you get FM go to the Options tab and go down to Game Credits and Research Credits. The sheer number of people involved in that game is pretty incredible. 2,500 researchers, a full team of testers, a full team of translators. SI's immediate programming and management staff I think (and could be way off) is probably in the 50 person range, but as far as the sheer size of their operation in producing a game like FM they are much closer to one of EA's development branches than they are to Jim.

[Anthony]

rather impressive.

for my lunchbreak i'm gonna try to see if i can find a place that sells the american version of FM.

[Marc Vaughan]

The ONE thing I fault SI/Marc on is the "Unknown" ref bug that's creeped in on 5.0.3 and 5.0.5. Kinda disappointing to have the state championships in Brazil reffed exclusively by Mr Unknown. Heard it happening in Serie 2/C in Italy and elsewhere.. Too bad there's no random ref file generator :)
We're looking into it currently, unfortunately I'm sidelined on something top-secret at the moment so can't pursue it personally (but I do think you'll like what I'm working on when it becomes public :D).

[Huckleberry]

the level of customer service you seek is not reasonable. you just don't go to msn.com and post a bug and hours later Bill Gates replies "why don't you send me your files and i'll have a look".
I think the fact that we receive that level of customer service makes it quite clearly reasonable. I didn't say I expect it from Microsoft. I said I value it.

if Marc Vaughn receives critical acclaim and goes on to become a Peter Molyneaux - you think he'd have the time to come to FOFC? if so then great. but his service is a byproduct of the smallness of SI (and i understand SI is a rather big company, but it's no EA or MS size-wise). what, then, would you think of your SI if you didn't get that one-on-one interaction?
If a smaller company gets so large that it affects their responsiveness and their customer service, then I no longer count responsiveness and customer service in the positives category for that company. This isn't a difficult concept.

i'm gonna risk sounding like a broken record, so i'll try to bow out. i jsut think it's funny that a good company in your eyes is one that has its employees come to this joke of a website and participate in the schlock that gets posted. not entirely reasonable expectations in my book.
You might sound like less of a broken record if you were responding to things that have actually been posted. I never defined a good company as one with fast response times or one that can meet the level of service that I value. Neither I nor anyone else ever stated that good companies are those that post on this website. I merely said that such a level of service should be and is valued by many customers. I am one of those customers.

Is there anything else you'd like to pretend I said?

[Marc Vaughan]

That's the thing about SI, they're actually pretty big. SI doesn't self publish their games like Jim, they're published by Sega now after the split with Eidos. Not to mention FM/CM is the sort of game that breaks sales records in the UK and Europe. They are not a "grass roots" type company in that sense, they just have class staff that act that way. When you get FM go to the Options tab and go down to Game Credits and Research Credits. The sheer number of people involved in that game is pretty incredible. 2,500 researchers, a full team of testers, a full team of translators. SI's immediate programming and management staff I think (and could be way off) is probably in the 50 person range, but as far as the sheer size of their operation in producing a game like FM they are much closer to one of EA's development branches than they are to Jim.
We're a bizarre setup to be honest, up until around 6 years ago we were tiny, all of 4 programmers and a handful of people assisting with research and general data stuff, however in the last few years we've expanded considerably and now have around 30 staff in total in the company assisted by a huge team of researchers who are largely volunteers.

Each team within the company is small comparatively with more game teams, the largest being FM's which has between 5-7 programmers on it and a 2-3 general purpose assistants (compared to CM5 having 30 odd programmers on it apparently).

The ethos I try to run the company with is to keep our teams small and passionate, I only hire people who love the games we make and I always want us to be involved in making games we love ourselves .... simple as that.

The main reason the company has grown so large in recent years is simply that we've diversified somewhat with the adoption of OOTP and EMH into the company (and a few other as yet to become public things which we're working on).

These new venture first and foremost will hopefully enable some very good games to secure a larger fan-base which imho they deserve (hey I've put SI where my mouth is, which proves I mean it ;)), (2) they enable great cross-pollination of ideas between the various teams - already ideas from FM have passed into OOTP and EHM and vice-versa, (3) from a practical (and more boring) business point of view the diversifacation should help take some of the strain off FM being the only source of revenue for the company (which in turn should give us more control over release dates etc. as we move forward).

I think that its important for sports-sims that a non-soccer game breaks through soon as publishers appear to have largely been convinced that they're a European niche ... and because none has, this become self-fulfilling in the manner of such things.

I think NHL EHM has surprised a few people and appears to have encouraged some sim development in non-soccer sports (for instance a commerical German Hockey sim was released recently), however unless one of these games establishes itself beyond a niche then I doubt the genre will truly be taken seriously in America ... I'm obviously hoping that SI will be able to break this mould, time will tell.

We've been posting information upon the new version of NHL EHM which will be forthcoming in a few months time at sigames.com and I think its definitely maturing nicely, we've refitted the interface from the first one with a more modern and upto date one (reminiscent in some ways of the FM interface) and added in a host of new funky features ... some of which I'm planning on stealing for the next FM ;)

Anyway thats a much longer post that I was planning on making and probably reveals more about SI than most companies would indicate - but what the heck .... if you thought about things for 5 minutes and applied common sense you'd have worked it all out anyway :D

Have Fun,

Marc

[FrogMan]

very interesting and enlightening post Marc, thanks for sharing :)

FM

[SirFozzie]

We're looking into it currently, unfortunately I'm sidelined on something top-secret at the moment so can't pursue it personally (but I do think you'll like what I'm working on when it becomes public :D).

Now, Marc, it's unfair to tease. *laughs*

Good to hear that it's being looked at.

[Desnudo]

i'm gonna risk sounding like a broken record, so i'll try to bow out. i jsut think it's funny that a good company in your eyes is one that has its employees come to this joke of a website and participate in the schlock that gets posted. not entirely reasonable expectations in my book.

What is unusual about a guy that makes text sims for a living coming to a board where text sim fans congregate?