Chief Rum
09-27-2004, 03:49 AM
...the Angels have suspended Jose Guillen without pay for the rest of the season and, should they make it, the postseason as well. Pretty shocking, really. Guillen has been the Angels' second best run producer, with .294-27-104 numbers, behind only Vladimir Guerrero.
Here's what happened (and at a game I attended, although I somehow missed the brewhaha from my rightfield terrace seat). In Saturday's game, Guillen was lifted for a pinchrunner in the eighth inning and did not react favorably to it. The overt stuff is that Guillen reacted visibly poorly to the move, threw his batting helmet in Mike Scioscia's general direction (or his end of the dugout), and then made a show of walking to the other (far) end of the dugout before coming in. What happens after that is mere conjecture.
The lockerroom was closed for a while after Saturday's game, but it's hard to tell if Guillen is being suspended for additional actions in there, just his actions on the field, or the weight of his actions across the season.
I have heard rumors that he may have taken a swing at either Darin Erstad or Scioscia in that clubhouse meeting, but I think that's likely BS. After all, he actually was taking batting practice with the team the next day, and every comment the organization has made in the wake of the decision have been based around his actions on the field Saturday and his history of temperamental outbursts. Also, players seemed to have been caught unawares at his suspension as well. Finally, supposedly, whatever happened really bothered Scioscia (he told the media he couldn't sleep over it Saturday night), but he seemed ready to let ti slide until GM Bill Stoneman and owner Artie Moreno themselves stepped in and made the decision. A lot of that is just rumor, though, as well.
I think if an actual fight occurred in the clubhouse, Guillen would have been suspended rather quickly, and it wouldn't have taken a day for the Angels to do something about it. My guess is there was some arguing in the clubhouse, and it may have gotten vicious, but that was it.
On the field, as if the overt actions weren't bad enough, Guillen also is rumored to have dropped the F-bomb on Scioscia, at least according to some who watched local video takes of the incident (I never saw them), and he obviously may have done it loud enough to be heard by the fans around the dugout (and visibly, too, while coming in from the field).
And then there's all the things he has done this season, including getting into a stare down with David Riske in June, his near outburst with an umpire following Vlad's beaning last Monday, and his complaining to the media last May that the pitchers weren't protecting the hitters after he and Vlad got hit by pitches in games at Toronto (ironically, John Lackey got thrown out for pitching too close inside against the Jays in the very game in question, and was suspended for five games).
Guillen has played with six teams in six years, and has a reputation of being a clubhouse cancer a la Raul Mondesi. He had his problems with the A's last year, too, and with the Reds before them. Most of the season, his oubtbursts were just dismissed as coming from an emotional, passionate player and that he was well liked in the clubhouse.
I don't know what to say about all this. I guess I'll go to a quick bullet form.
1. Real ballsy move for the team to do this just before the final week of a long and bitter pennant race.
2. Guillen has been absolutely critical to this team's success this year, often carrying this team through injuries and bad offensive slumps, and coming up with a number of key hits. He also has dazzled with his arm in leftfield, throwing out a ton of runners at home plate with some terrific throws.
3. Despite his importance to the team, I have to agree with the Angels' move based on what I know of his history and his actions on Saturday. I don't know if it warrants the rest of the regular season and postseason, though (unless there really was something to those clubhouse rumors).
4. Guillen's actions were all about "me", and the team has made a big deal about the Angels being a true team (a theme they rode to the 2002 WS champ), so while the strength of the punishment is a little surprising, their decision is not.
5. He is being suspended without pay, which means we're likely to see a something from the good ole Player's Union on this one.
6. He's in the first year of a $6 M, 2-year deal. What does this mean for next year?
These are all questions swirling around this team even as they are trying to get into the postseason (one game back of the A's, one game up on the Rangers, with seven games left--all against the A's and Rangers).
Obviously, this all means a lot more to me and fellow Angels fans then to anyone else, but I thought I would ask for comments from the baseball peanut gallery here anyway.
CR
Here's what happened (and at a game I attended, although I somehow missed the brewhaha from my rightfield terrace seat). In Saturday's game, Guillen was lifted for a pinchrunner in the eighth inning and did not react favorably to it. The overt stuff is that Guillen reacted visibly poorly to the move, threw his batting helmet in Mike Scioscia's general direction (or his end of the dugout), and then made a show of walking to the other (far) end of the dugout before coming in. What happens after that is mere conjecture.
The lockerroom was closed for a while after Saturday's game, but it's hard to tell if Guillen is being suspended for additional actions in there, just his actions on the field, or the weight of his actions across the season.
I have heard rumors that he may have taken a swing at either Darin Erstad or Scioscia in that clubhouse meeting, but I think that's likely BS. After all, he actually was taking batting practice with the team the next day, and every comment the organization has made in the wake of the decision have been based around his actions on the field Saturday and his history of temperamental outbursts. Also, players seemed to have been caught unawares at his suspension as well. Finally, supposedly, whatever happened really bothered Scioscia (he told the media he couldn't sleep over it Saturday night), but he seemed ready to let ti slide until GM Bill Stoneman and owner Artie Moreno themselves stepped in and made the decision. A lot of that is just rumor, though, as well.
I think if an actual fight occurred in the clubhouse, Guillen would have been suspended rather quickly, and it wouldn't have taken a day for the Angels to do something about it. My guess is there was some arguing in the clubhouse, and it may have gotten vicious, but that was it.
On the field, as if the overt actions weren't bad enough, Guillen also is rumored to have dropped the F-bomb on Scioscia, at least according to some who watched local video takes of the incident (I never saw them), and he obviously may have done it loud enough to be heard by the fans around the dugout (and visibly, too, while coming in from the field).
And then there's all the things he has done this season, including getting into a stare down with David Riske in June, his near outburst with an umpire following Vlad's beaning last Monday, and his complaining to the media last May that the pitchers weren't protecting the hitters after he and Vlad got hit by pitches in games at Toronto (ironically, John Lackey got thrown out for pitching too close inside against the Jays in the very game in question, and was suspended for five games).
Guillen has played with six teams in six years, and has a reputation of being a clubhouse cancer a la Raul Mondesi. He had his problems with the A's last year, too, and with the Reds before them. Most of the season, his oubtbursts were just dismissed as coming from an emotional, passionate player and that he was well liked in the clubhouse.
I don't know what to say about all this. I guess I'll go to a quick bullet form.
1. Real ballsy move for the team to do this just before the final week of a long and bitter pennant race.
2. Guillen has been absolutely critical to this team's success this year, often carrying this team through injuries and bad offensive slumps, and coming up with a number of key hits. He also has dazzled with his arm in leftfield, throwing out a ton of runners at home plate with some terrific throws.
3. Despite his importance to the team, I have to agree with the Angels' move based on what I know of his history and his actions on Saturday. I don't know if it warrants the rest of the regular season and postseason, though (unless there really was something to those clubhouse rumors).
4. Guillen's actions were all about "me", and the team has made a big deal about the Angels being a true team (a theme they rode to the 2002 WS champ), so while the strength of the punishment is a little surprising, their decision is not.
5. He is being suspended without pay, which means we're likely to see a something from the good ole Player's Union on this one.
6. He's in the first year of a $6 M, 2-year deal. What does this mean for next year?
These are all questions swirling around this team even as they are trying to get into the postseason (one game back of the A's, one game up on the Rangers, with seven games left--all against the A's and Rangers).
Obviously, this all means a lot more to me and fellow Angels fans then to anyone else, but I thought I would ask for comments from the baseball peanut gallery here anyway.
CR