MNF: Dallas @ Washington

[cthomer5000]

Dallas either just had a DB make a miraculous interception, or it wasn't an interception at all...

[cthomer5000]

I'm not crazy about the ref's explanation, but I suppose they made the right call. Skins retain posession.


Dallas has been absolutely drilling every player they tackle so far.

[Neuqua]

CT-

You put any money down on it tonight?

[cthomer5000]

CT-

You put any money down on it tonight?
Sadly, no. I was really tired after work today, took a nap, then woke up as the game was starting.

What was the line? If anything I would have bet on the Skins. I'm a Parcells guy, and I'm far from sold on the 'Skins.


And does anyone find the 'Clinton Portis took his mom to the prom' story more creepy every time they hear it? It just ain't right.

[Neuqua]

I think it was Skins -2.5

I could not decide which side to take so I went ahead and decided not to bet today with any side.

I ended up taking the under (36.5) because of the weather conditions which are supposed to get pretty bad later in the game.

We'll see how things go.

[cthomer5000]

Parcelss, why in the world do you have Dedric Ward returning punts? This man's 'return game' consisted of signaling for a fair catch or fumbling in his 2 years as Jets returner.

He is absolutely NOT a return man.

[gottimd]

The line opened at -3 for Washington and 35. WHen Arrington injury was announced it dropped to -1 and 36. It was floating around that point. I got it at -1 and 35.

[cthomer5000]

just an amazing array of ex-Jets in this game tonight, on both sides.

[Bearcat729]

Glenn should have been called on that

[ISiddiqui]

These are the WORST fucking officials I've ever seen! How many blown calls have there been already in the 1st Quarter?

[cthomer5000]

Eddie 'Corpse' George scores!

[gottimd]

Glenn should have been called on that

That was crap, should have been Offensive PI.

[gottimd]

Eddie 'Corpse' George scores!

Eddie "boy" george?

[cthomer5000]

These are the WORST fucking officials I've ever seen! How many blown calls have there been already in the 1st Quarter?
I was thinking the same thing. I can't even be sure any one of the calls was wrong, but every call so far has been borderline/could have gone either way. One of the more controversial 1st quarters I can recall seeing.

[ISiddiqui]

The 'interception' that was reversed on replay was blatently obvious though. I don't know if these refs are blind or have bad angles or what.

[cthomer5000]

That was crap, should have been Offensive PI.
I think off-setting interference calls would have been the best outcome there. The CB clearly grabbed his shoulder and pulled at the end, but Glenn definitely pushed before that.

[cthomer5000]

The 'interception' that was reversed on replay was blatently obvious though. I don't know if these refs are blind or have bad angles or what.
In real time I thought it was 'maybe' an interception. One of the unfortunate side-effects of replay is refs tending to let the action continue more often, thinking that it can be overturned if it's wrong. If they rule it incomplete but it turns out the guy DID catch it, then the ref ends up looking even worse.

I do not fault him for ruling it an INT on-field there though. It was extremely close.

[cthomer5000]

Laveranues Coles... you got jacked! up!

[JAG]

They need to put Ward's replacement out there NOW. He does not look comfortable out there.

[cthomer5000]

They need to put Ward's replacement out there NOW. He does not look comfortable out there.
I wasn't kidding earlier, this guy has no business returning a punt. He either

A. signals fair catch, regardless of how much room to run he has
B. looks shakey catching it, and has an incredibly high change of fumbling during his (short) return


How he got beyond an 'emergency fill-in' level at returner is beyond me, he's never been even OK at it. I think they should give CB Nate Jones a chance (although he's much more of a kickoff returner), assumimg he's on the active roster.

[JAG]

Nate Jones was on the active roster for the last game and had at least one nice play in the Cleveland game that I can recall. Not sure if he would be for this game though.

At least Ward looked ok catching that last one.

[cthomer5000]

Can someone please get the guy in NetZero commercials a major gig? He's been excellent in the NetZero and FedEx (or some shipping company). But his prize role has been his performance as 'Inconsiderate Cell Phone Man' in the PSA that runs int the theatre before movies.

I'm thinking maybe a spot on SNL?

[gottimd]

He's Inconsiderate Cell Phone Guy?

Karate Explosion.

[Crapshoot]

wow- Gibbs and his OC look like a couple of old guys caught in the headlights- especially that OC....

[cthomer5000]

He's Inconsiderate Cell Phone Guy?

Karate Explosion.
Oh yeah, he's Incsondierate Cell Phone Man. It's spawned two favorite quote between me and my girlfriend

"Get this - it was a chick" and "it's pronounced Ka-ra-te."

[Draft Dodger]

is this game taking forever or something? is it really still halftime at 11pm? If so, I'm going to go home and watch the rest

[cthomer5000]

is this game taking forever or something? is it really still halftime at 11pm? If so, I'm going to go home and watch the rest
Slightly long first half. Second half kickoff wa at 10.56 EST by my watch.

[Draft Dodger]

well then, I'm going home

[RGunner]

Wow, you weren't kidding about Ward, he is the worst punt returner I have ever seen... When he doesnt fumble the punt, he constantly runs it to the completely crowded sideline and proceeds to get tackled right away. Please tell me he isn't the best returner we have.

[Suicane75]

Man, i was gonna bet the cowboys but didnt get online in time. Son of a bitch!

[cthomer5000]

On Ward: I am not kidding or exaggerating. He did the exact same thing for 2 years with the Jets. In no way resembles a functional punt returner.

The Cowboys RB situation is ugly. I'm becoming more and more perplexed by them not drafting Stephen Jackson. I can see them trading down if they liked Julis Jones as much or more... but Jones is apparently buried on the depth chart. It just doesn't seem like a great move or a team ready to win now.

[JAG]

That was a really nice grab by Antonio Bryant.

[JAG]

Julius Jones is injured, that's why he's not seeing the ball.

[cthomer5000]

That was a really nice grab by Antonio Bryant.
Yeah, although I thought it was a tad iffy as to whether the ball didn't hit the ground before he really had posession. Testeverde is looking good.

[RGunner]

The Cowboys RB situation is ugly. I'm becoming more and more perplexed by them not drafting Stephen Jackson. I can see them trading down if they liked Julis Jones as much or more... but Jones is apparently buried on the depth chart. It just doesn't seem like a great move or a team ready to win now.


Jones is injured, out for 2 months, something with his shoulder

[cthomer5000]

Julius Jones is injured, that's why he's not seeing the ball.
that's right, wasn't he injured in the first game? Still, it appeared he was like 4th on the depth chart on opening day (couting them using Richie Anderson as more of an RB option). When's he due back?

[cthomer5000]

Any Skins fans here? WTF happened to Taylor Jacobs? Total bust? injury? He's still on the team, right?

[kingfc22]

Not Witten. Now I only have a 3 pt. lead in my only FF game I have a chance of winning this week.

[JAG]

that's right, wasn't he injured in the first game? Still, it appeared he was like 4th on the depth chart on opening day (couting them using Richie Anderson as more of an RB option). When's he due back?

He was actually injured for the first game so he was inactive for that one. He broke his shoulder in game 2 on his second carry, had three more carries before coaches realized he was favoring one shoulder. From everything I've read about him, he'll be fine once he starts playing.

What a stupid play by Wiley. Grrrr.

[bosshogg23]

You need Witten not to score and I need Portis to score........At this rate its gonna take Portis 12 more quarters.

[JAG]

Any Skins fans here? WTF happened to Taylor Jacobs? Total bust? injury? He's still on the team, right?

Taylor had a tackle in the second quarter, so he's on the team. Outside that, I haven't seen him.

[gottimd]

You need Witten not to score and I need Portis to score........At this rate its gonna take Portis 12 more quarters.

I am in the same boat. Its getting close to chalking this one up as a loss. It would be great if the skins can score here, hold dallas to a FG, then score a late TD, go into OT, and let portis get more chances for yards and TD.

[cthomer5000]

Parcells challenge advisor really needs to calm down about testing the refs on these incredibly tight situations. The first one and that one were both a completely foolish use of a challenge.

I wonder if it will bite them in the ass between now and the 2 minute warning.

[TazFTW]

I am in the same boat. Its getting close to chalking this one up as a loss. It would be great if the skins can score here, hold dallas to a FG, then score a late TD, go into OT, and let portis get more chances for yards and TD.


I need Terry Glenn to score twice to get past a Peyton Manning/Javon Walker menace.

[gottimd]

I need Terry Glenn to score twice to get past a Peyton Manning/Javon Walker menace.


The guy I was playing had Manning as well, but I had Mcnabb. The thing that killed me is that I am in a league with 16, so I had GB Defense. There were no others to pick up so I had to use them, and they got me -8 points. So noe I need Portis to make up some points, and it doesn't look good.

[TazFTW]

I love you Richie Anderson!!!!

[cthomer5000]

awesome. That was a 3 play Richie Anderson highlight reel!

[cthomer5000]

I can't see any evidence that would warrant overturning this.

[JAG]

What a series! Richie!

[JeeberD]

Woot!

Hell of a throw by Richie!

[RGunner]

Excellent pass by Anderson and a really nice catch by Glenn

[cthomer5000]

This is one of the many reasons I love Parcells, he's always been willing to run trick plays, and generally knows exactly when to pull the trigger on them.

(And I'll assume it's him and not his O.C., since this has been the case across all teams and assistant coaches, so it likely is his call).

[JeeberD]

Got away with one there...

[cthomer5000]

Come on guys, since high school you've been coached to fall on the ball.

Although at least the followup sack made it less of an issue.

[JAG]

That 84-1 record when leading by 10 points going into the 4th is amazing, although it'd be nice to see some other coaches' records in that regard to have something with which to compare it.

[JAG]

This is one of the many reasons I love Parcells, he's always been willing to run trick plays, and generally knows exactly when to pull the trigger on them.

(And I'll assume it's him and not his O.C., since this has been the case across all teams and assistant coaches, so it likely is his call).

Yep, he's been calling the plays since he's been in Dallas.

[cthomer5000]

That 84-1 record when leading by 10 points going into the 4th is amazing, although it'd be nice to see some other coaches' records in that regard to have something with which to compare it.
It really is an amazing stat. Of course they didn't give us any comparison, so maybe a lot of coaches have a similarly impressive record (though I really doubt it).

[cthomer5000]

Eddie George is becoming impossible to defend. Not in the 'tackling him' sense, but in the 'explaining away his 2.0 YPC' way. :(

[JeeberD]

Shit.

[TazFTW]

How the heck do you get juked by Mark Brunell???

[cthomer5000]

I swear one of those hogs was Robert Duvall.

[JeeberD]

Double shit.

[cthomer5000]

double-shit. Things are a little too close now.

[JAG]

Damn that was fast.

[kingfc22]

I bet Gibbs wishes he has those TO's now.

[cthomer5000]

classic. The 'Boys only had 10 men on the field for the touchdown. http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_dunce.gif (javascript:emoticon(':dunce:'))

[cthomer5000]

No matter what, keep the clock running Dallas. Remember, John Hall is their kicker.

[JAG]

I'm glad we don't have Gowin out here to hit this punt.

[cthomer5000]

So many coaches could take a lesson in clock management from Parcells.

Herm Edwards would have passed 3 consecutive times in this situation.

[JeeberD]

Come on Aussie boy!

[cthomer5000]

The best thing they can say about Eddie George is "he doesn't fumble."

[JeeberD]

We need Key in the secondary again this game!

[JeeberD]

Fuck!!!!!!!!!!!

[cthomer5000]

We need Key in the secondary again this game!
yes!

[JeeberD]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JAG]

Whew. Good stuff. :)

[JeeberD]

Gardner pushed off like a mofo...

[cthomer5000]

I'll never forget the Jets-Jacksonville playoff game when Keyshawn had a TD catch, a rushing TD, and an interception. :)

[Vince]

That TD pass by Brunnell was gorgeous.

[cthomer5000]

Roy just drilled him. Nice exlcamation point on the win, even if that catch made a lot of people panic for a second.

[JeeberD]

My girlfriend says that I'm a nerd... :(

[RGunner]

Killer hit by Roy there, nailed the crap out of Gardner... Gardner had a good last couple of minutes there

[JAG]

85-1 now. :)

What was up with Gardner this game? He basically couldn't be covered by anyone.

[cthomer5000]

Ok, they've been harping on this all night. 'A bad pass intereference call against Washington..."

How was it a bad call? He clearly interfered. The only thing up for debate was whether or not there should have been an offsetting penalty called, quit making it sound like the actual call was bogus.

[mckerney]

Gardner pushed off like a mofo...

A horrible thing to do to a team that has never benefited from a push off.

[JeeberD]

Of course we haven't... :D

Drew Pearson is God!

[HornedFrog Purple]

Thoughts

1. Marcellus Wiley is useless. USELESS. He is an overpaid sub-par Greg Ellis.

2. The back judge of this group of referees should be fired.

3. Terrance Newman is buying his own hype. Tuna needs to have a sitdown with him with quickness.

4. Roy Williams is still the man. Learn some lessons Sean Taylor.

5. Love Joe Gibbs but Brunell is LEFT HANDED. I just shook my head every time they rolled him right.

6. Tuna majorly screwed up on the possession before the last one. Throwing on both 2nd and 3rd down made no sense. Running on one of those plays and the Cowboys never would have had to punt the next possession.

7. Electric crowd in Redskin land. Very cool.

8. Someone needs to tell Richie Anderson he is too old to be making plays.

9. Jason Whiten will be in the Probowl. Tuna is turning him into his Ben Coates.

10. Winning a game when you are outgained by over 100 yards and 10 minutes of possession shouldn't happen. The Cowboys should thank their lucky star on that helmet.

11. Don't give up Skins fans. Your boys are getting it together.

[gottimd]

11. Don't give up Skins fans. Your boys are getting it together.

Yes, but their schedule is going to get even tougher. I am surprised Brunell has lasted this long, since he is 7,000 years old and is injury prone these days. Coles had a few botched drops right in the numbers, and the O-Line doesn't protect the QB that well, which also limits Portis running ability since he is met in the backfield on almost every handoff. And with the O-Line crumbling, that doesn't give Brunell much time to throw and he ends up scrambling, and he is Oh so swift on his feet. I don't think arrington would've been a deciding factor in the game even if he was in, because the offense just couldn't get it together. The blown timeouts in the 3rd Quarter were huge. If they had just one Time out after Gardner caught that ball, it would've been a completely different ending.

[JAG]

Overall, it wasn't Parcells' best coaching job. He also didn't use either challenge well (I would bet he'll look into changing something about that process for the future) and the one time they could've used it to their advantage and obtained good field position to boot, he didn't, which allowed the 'Skins to build momentum and get three points.

Other points to add:

12. Kenyon Coleman needs to learn to seal the deal. Twice he ended plays around Brunell but didn't get a sack.

13. Jacques Reeves looks good out there for a 7th round draft pick rookie.

14. Note to Rutgers fans: Hunter supposedly has an ACL tear and is done for the year. It looked like Nate Jones was in the nickel packages with Hunter out, so he may see increased playing time.

15. More intermediate pass routes, less short pass routes, k plz thx

16. Considering the lack of playmakers the Skins have on defense, they looked very impressive and well-coached.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Sure the Redskins have some problems, so do the Cowboys but they already look 10 billion times better than that circus the "ol ball coach" ran.

Give Gibbs time to get his people in there and you guys will be fine.

[Cuckoo]

Thoughts

1. Marcellus Wiley is useless. USELESS. He is an overpaid sub-par Greg Ellis.

2. The back judge of this group of referees should be fired.

3. Terrance Newman is buying his own hype. Tuna needs to have a sitdown with him with quickness.

4. Roy Williams is still the man. Learn some lessons Sean Taylor.

5. Love Joe Gibbs but Brunell is LEFT HANDED. I just shook my head every time they rolled him right.

6. Tuna majorly screwed up on the possession before the last one. Throwing on both 2nd and 3rd down made no sense. Running on one of those plays and the Cowboys never would have had to punt the next possession.

7. Electric crowd in Redskin land. Very cool.

8. Someone needs to tell Richie Anderson he is too old to be making plays.

9. Jason Whiten will be in the Probowl. Tuna is turning him into his Ben Coates.

10. Winning a game when you are outgained by over 100 yards and 10 minutes of possession shouldn't happen. The Cowboys should thank their lucky star on that helmet.

11. Don't give up Skins fans. Your boys are getting it together.

Ditto. Well said, HFP. The only thing I'd add is that it appears the Skins 'D' already has it together. Even without Arrington, that's a solid group of aggressive and talented guys.

[Subby]

I have to say that I am not as completely disappointed by last night's result as I would have thought. I see an improving team that is learning a completely different offensive and defensive system for the 3rd time in four seasons. I see a coach that has been away from the game for a long time and is probably still re-learning the nuances of game management in the modern NFL.

Last year when a game like the Giants game (7 turnovers) or last night's clock-mismanagement fiascoes happened, I was pretty disconsolate because I knew Spurrier and his staff had no clue what they were doing and probably weren't going to learn from their mistakes.

Nobody adapts and learns like Joe Gibbs. The guy started his career 0-5 and adapted. The guy won SBs with 3 average-at-best quarterbacks. I have no doubt that a few games from now, this team will be hitting on all cylinders. Dallas and New York are deeply flawed teams and I think that if Washington can stay within a game of those two while they are gelling, then the second half of the season could be suprising.

I also thought Brunnell did an absolutely bang up job last night after starting out looking about 10 years older than he is.

Anyway...great classic NFC East game. Maybe we get the next one back in Dallas.

[Ksyrup]

So who was to blame for the debacle at the end of the 1st half? Washington should have had a TD there. I hate to say it, but Madden was right - you go with the roll out on 2nd down, because if you still want to do it, everyone knows it's coming on 3rd down. And the clock usage was downright awful - they were close enough to be abel to run the ball on 3rd down, but they let the clock go too far down, so they had to pass. So not only did Dallas know they were going to pass, but they were probably 75% sure it was going to be a roll out. That pretty much cost them the game.

[gottimd]

So who was to blame for the debacle at the end of the 1st half? Washington should have had a TD there. I hate to say it, but Madden was right - you go with the roll out on 2nd down, because if you still want to do it, everyone knows it's coming on 3rd down. And the clock usage was downright awful - they were close enough to be abel to run the ball on 3rd down, but they let the clock go too far down, so they had to pass. So not only did Dallas know they were going to pass, but they were probably 75% sure it was going to be a roll out. That pretty much cost them the game.


I agree completely. I am not saying Washington is horrible or doesn't have the potential because they do, its just last night they didn't look that good. I never understand the goaline run up the middle. Everyone is there, a simple bootleg or toss to the TE almost always works because it is at most single coverage.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Whoever called the timeout with 2:04 is the main culprit (I think it was Portis actually). Silly waste of a timeout.

[gottimd]

Whoever called the timeout with 2:04 is the main culprit (I think it was Portis actually). Silly waste of a timeout.

It was either that or a delay of game if I recall correctly, but Im not sure what the down situation was.

[cthomer5000]

14. Note to Rutgers fans: Hunter supposedly has an ACL tear and is done for the year. It looked like Nate Jones was in the nickel packages with Hunter out, so he may see increased playing time.
Good deal. I hope he sees some action on kickoff returns as well then. And you should pray that they try someone other than Dedric Ward on punt returns - he is the stuff of nightmares back there.

[cthomer5000]

Dallas and New York are deeply flawed teams and I think that if Washington can stay within a game of those two while they are gelling, then the second half of the season could be suprising.
I think this is a pretty sunny view of the NFC East. Dallas has a great defense and one of the all-time great coaches. If their offense can give them decent output (like last night), they'll win their share of games. Their big problem is obviously the running game, which appears to be missing in action.

The Giants have a solid offensive squad, with the most underrated set of 'skill position' players in the league. Barber, Shockey, Hilliard, and Toomer are a better group than many, many teams in the league. There major issue(s) are pass protection and defense. They only need moderate performances out of both to be in every game.

All in all, I think Washington, Dallas, and New York are very even. I don't Washington as being any better then them. I said before the season began that I could see any of the NFC East teams making the playoffs, and I still feel that way now. If there is a wild card to be had for this division, it's going to come down to small things like the 2 non-similar games, and whichever team doesn't blow 1 or 2 winnable games.

[jamesUMD]

that was a tough game to be in the stands for last night. My voice is shot from screaming so much. New Washington edict from my point of view," If you get to the line of scrimmage and there is something wrong with the play, you are short players, or anything out of the ordinary, you audible to a qb sneak and fall forward for a 1/2 yard gain, get up and get shit straightened out for the next play!"

Brunell seeemd to be waiting for word from Christ himself to throw the ball. Was he hiking the ball, turning over an hourglass, and waiting for the sand to run out before he could let the ball into flight????? Everyone seems so happy with his performance but I just did not see it. It was definitely one of those time where the stats do not tell the whole story!

[SFL Cat]

Hard to throw when your guys are covered.

[Huckleberry]

Quick thought -

Dallas snapped a second down play after a timeout with 2:04 left in the game. The play ended with exactly 2:00 left in the game on a run. Wouldn't this have been a great situation to throw a deep ball on a team that is loaded up against the run? If it's not open, and I think it would have been, throw it out of bounds. Either way, such a play takes at least 4 seconds and with the two minute warning you haven't wasted any time.

I would have loved a play-action deep ball on that play. Would have been genius. I was begging for it at the time.

[cartman]

classic. The 'Boys only had 10 men on the field for the touchdown. http://www.fof-ihof.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_dunce.gif (javascript:emoticon(':dunce:'))

Having a flashback to Tony Dorsett's 99 TD run against the Vikings? The Cowboys only had 10 men on the field for that one as well...

:D

[JAG]

Quick thought -

Dallas snapped a second down play after a timeout with 2:04 left in the game. The play ended with exactly 2:00 left in the game on a run. Wouldn't this have been a great situation to throw a deep ball on a team that is loaded up against the run? If it's not open, and I think it would have been, throw it out of bounds. Either way, such a play takes at least 4 seconds and with the two minute warning you haven't wasted any time.

I would have loved a play-action deep ball on that play. Would have been genius. I was begging for it at the time.

That's actually a really good point. Throw Bryant and Glenn out there and let 'em run.

[cthomer5000]

That's actually a really good point. Throw Bryant and Glenn out there and let 'em run.
It's a fair point, but I think Parcells wanted to take no chances there. Run the clock down to next to nothing, and let them try to make a miracle happen against your defense.

[Huckleberry]

And another thought -

It turns out they wouldn't have had time anyway, but why didn't Washington have their field goal team lined up at about the 25 yard line on the sideline waiting to sprint onto the field? I always figured your deep snapper and 4 backup OL along with the WRs that run down the field, the holder, and the kicker, could do a patchwork job executing a last second field goal. As soon as the ball is down they should all sprint out onto the field to perform the field goal. They could get the snap off much more quickly than the OL who have just been pass blocking and are possibly on the ground can get to the new LOS and get set, then snap the ball, then spike it, then have the clock operator stop the clock.

Heck, they could probably get an offsides penalty against the defense.

[cthomer5000]

Heck, they could probably get an offsides penalty against the defense.
You probably need a minimum of 12 seconds or so to run those dudes out here, get (legally) lined up, and get a snap off. I would say that's a best case scenario. Even doing it that fast you're likely to have someone not set correctly, lined up illegally, still moving, etc..

[Huckleberry]

I agree 12 seconds is reasonable if you just got your guys together on the sideline and said get it done.

But with practice, there's no way it should take 12 seconds to run 35 yards and get set and snap a ball. You could get that to 8. The longest time would be the OL that were blocking on the previous play getting up and getting off the field.

[TazFTW]

To those in Texas (or anyone that has heard anything really), is it true that the Cowboys are looking into aquiring Mike McKenzie from the Packers?

[gottimd]

To those in Texas (or anyone that has heard anything really), is it true that the Cowboys are looking into aquiring Mike McKenzie from the Packers?


New Orleans is currently offering, supposedly, the second round draft choice for him.

[rkmsuf]

New Orleans is currently offering, supposedly, the second round draft choice for him.

I don't think I'd give a 2nd rounder for that guy. Particularly because he's wanting big bucks. It's tough because I think the deadline is around week 6 so it's not like NO can sit around and wait to see if they'll be in it. They need defense badly so in this case I could make a case for them overpaying.

[gottimd]

I don't think I'd give a 2nd rounder for that guy. Particularly because he's wanting big bucks. It's tough because I think the deadline is around week 6 so it's not like NO can sit around and wait to see if they'll be in it. They need defense badly so in this case I could make a case for them overpaying.


Saints secondary is horrendous, and they have two 2nd rounders as of now.

[JAG]

To those in Texas (or anyone that has heard anything really), is it true that the Cowboys are looking into aquiring Mike McKenzie from the Packers?

From what I've heard, there have been casual talk between the two clubs, but Dallas won't pay the Packers' price (1st or 2nd round pick I believe) and also doesn't think McKenzie is worth what he's asking for.

[Ksyrup]

So, is this the general Redskins' fans' thinking on Gibbs at this point? What's the talk been there? I read about how the Browns were pulling an imitation of the Pats against the Dolphins from a few years back - Brunell would call out a play and the Browns' defense would tell them what they were going to do before the snap.

At the very least, this can't be what 'skins fans thought they were getting...




By Tom Friend
ESPN The Magazine

<!-- template inline -->Any Redskin fan who hasn't shouted #$%$#@ at Joe Gibbs is lying.

I've done it. I've done it every game this year, and even though I feel guilty as hell, I'm here to tell every Redskin fan that it's okay. It's okay to be mad at God.

We thought we'd give him a grace period. Maybe 10 weeks. Maybe a year. But then the season starts against Tampa Bay, and it takes us one half to start scratching our heads. He doesn't challenge a bad spot by the referees inside the five-yard line, and it costs us points. He goes on to coach a conservative game that we barely win. We bite our tongues. We say, oh well, he's just rusty.

The next week, in New York, we have to sit there and watch seven turnovers. The running back he loves, Clinton Portis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5937), keeps coughing it up, and the quarterback he buried, Patrick Ramsey (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5918), comes off the bench throwing lollipops to the other team. When Ramsey does throw it to the right place, Rod Gardner (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5462) drops a sure touchdown. We're numb. We see our quarterbacks get sacked five times. We want to say, "Spurrier could've done this." But we say nothing. We look at the bright side and figure lessons will be learned. We figure Gibbs will have Portis carrying the football around in meetings. We figure Joe Bugel will sic Joe Jacoby on the offensive line.

And then Dallas comes to town on a Monday night, and the instant replay problem rears its head again. Gibbs challenges a second-half touchdown pass to Terry Glenn (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3515) that, on the initial TV replay, is not an obvious overturn. The first rule of replay is don't throw the red flag unless it's clear-cut, don't throw darts. But Joe admits later that he was thinking with his heart, and it cost him a timeout he needed later ... like when the clock was ticking 3-2-1, and he couldn't stop it for the game-tying field goal.

But we didn't panic, not entirely. The experts kept saying Gibbs got out-coached by Bill Parcells, but we knew all he really did was get out-ref'd. The zebras gave the Cowboys a free touchdown on a bad pass interference call and took away a Redskins touchdown on a bad non-pass interference call. That's a 14 point-swing. And we only lost by three. And, hell, they should've flagged Roy Williams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5894) for helmet-to-helmet contact on the last play of the game, which would've enabled the game-tying field goal.

So we bit our tongue again. It was all fixable. Yes, quarterback, Mark Brunell (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2485) had to burn two time outs against Dallas because of mix ups at the line, but we heard Gibbs say he was going to simplify the offense to avoid that. Great. An adjustment. That's what he was famous for in the 1980s.

So we're 1-2 heading into Cleveland, and what happens? All of the above. Portis fumbles. Gibbs throws another dart on replay -- and misses. Costs him a timeout. Then he burns another timeout when the team can't line up right. When he needs to challenge Laveranues Coles (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5107)' game-losing fumble at the end of the game (an obvious incompletion), he can't. Because he's out of time outs. We're screaming in our living rooms.

When Gibbs was hired, the one thing we all said was, "Well, at least we won't beat ourselves anymore." And now we've beaten ourselves three out of four. In Cleveland, there were false start penalties. Personal foul penalties. Blown coverages. Long punt returns against us. Complaints about the audio connection to the quarterback. It's blasphemous, but we have no choice but to say it now: Joe Gibbs is actually making Spurrier a sympathetic figure.

But, most embarrassing of all, we have to sit here today and hear the Browns call Gibbs' offense predictable. Portis actually left the field thinking the Browns had a copy of the Redskins playbook, but, the truth is, the Browns just felt the Gibbs offense was vanilla.

"Their offense is not that complicated," cornerback Daylon McCutcheon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4712) told the Washington Times. "They have certain tendencies. Let's say it's third down. They line up in this formation, and they only run two different routes. It makes our job a whole lot easier."

There's truth to that. Even in the glory days, the Redskins offense only ran two-to-four basic plays. It's just that they'd shift and move before the snap, and the defense didn't know how to read it. But with the shorter play clock, and perhaps with his inability to get the play in quickly enough, Gibbs can't have his Redskins shifting the way they used to. There isn't time. Teams are simply loading eight men in the box, daring Brunell to throw, and there hasn't been enough ingenuity to make them pay.

And so here we are again, circa 1981. He started 0-5 that year, his first year as a head coach, and, with the Ravens coming to town next Sunday night, he could be 1-4 this time around. Obviously, if he can coach his way out of 0-5, he can coach his way out of 1-4, but there have to be changes. In '81, he scrapped his four wide-out offense, used three tight ends instead and plowed John Riggins up the middle. A year later, they won the Super Bowl.

Back then, he treated his players like men, and that's what won them over. He never called them out in the press, always did it behind closed doors. He could be just as tough as Parcells; it's just that he kept it in-house. And trust me, the old Redskins feared him. Former Redskin tight end Donnie Warren said in a post-game show Sunday that Gibbs would call players in after they fumbled and say, "This better stop or you'll be flipping burgers next week." He wasn't kidding. Gibbs got rid of Timmy Smith, his 1988 Super Bowl hero, because of fumbles. He got rid of Smith's successor, Jamie Morris, because of fumbles. But he obviously can't get rid of Clinton Portis. Or any other star player. Not with the cap hit.

So how will he handle it? Knowing him the way I do (I spent three seasons covering him), he will always treat the players like men. But he also needs to instill fear, and I'm not sure he's gone there yet. It works for Parcells and it works for Bill Belichick, and it will work for Gibbs. Especially for Gibbs, because the players will know it's not some Parcells psychological act. Gibbs will not call anybody "she." He will simply start calling players in one by one, look them in the eye and challenge them. And if they don't improve, he will bench them. Then he will figure out instant replay, and then he will figure out the reduced play clock, and then he will figure out how to fool the defense. Even if it takes all night.

We think.

@#$^%$$

Tom Friend is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

[JAG]

Around DC, most people are just saying be patient blah blah blah. I think given time he'll turn things around, but I'm not sure he'll end up with that time. Add to that there are some up-and-coming teams in the division with good coaches (Cowboys and Giants) plus a Super Bowl contender for the foreseeable future with an excellent coach (Eagles).

[Alf]

let me coach the Redskins, I won't do a worse job the Gibbs !