US Soldiers AWOL in Canada

[Karim]

There are only four US soldiers who've chosen to try and get refugee status in Canada but the Left up here is milking it as a triumph of "Canadian" ideals, even dishonouring the memories of veterans by calling these deserters' actions as "courageous".

How much blood has been spilt to give this guy the freedom to even make such a decision?

http://www.notinourname.net/troops/awol-canada-9mar04.htm

P.S. One claim has already been rejected. US Ambassador to Canada, Paul Salucci, is reserving his comments, waiting for instructions from Washington. Four US soldiers claim refugee status in Canada but not even one Iraqui?

[SoxWin]

You know. I have no problems with draft dodgers if they honestly have a problem with a war and don't want to serve. I have zero respect for guys who join up knowing they may have to fight but run like a child when they're asked to do so.

[Fritz]

Enjoy breaking rocks, troop.

[jamesUMD]

As long as we renounce them as American citizens and refuse to let them come back into the country ever again, then let them do what they want. As an ex soldier I know what it takes on a daily basis to defend the freedom of this country. Coward's like these should not be able to stand foot on this, soil that so many have died defending!

[valhalla]

I have zero respect for guys who join up knowing they may have to fight but run like a child when they're asked to do so.

totally agree, thats like me joining a football league and refusing to play in any games because im scared i am gonna get hurt.. Why do these idiots join the military if they have a problem with fighting in a war?? :confused: Become a nurse for elderly people or something if thats more your style, no one forced you to join the military and become a soldier. You join the military your gonna have to do what they tell you to, whether your agree with it or not.

[MrBug708]

Any of them gonna be our future president?

[stevew]

You sign up for the army, you have gotta expect that war is a possible outcome of your service. These guys should have a lot of fun when they get sent to prision camp.

[Poli]

Listen, I didn't think you guys would get this mad at me. I'll head back home right now. Geez.

[Chubby]

I hear it's possible for people to sign up to "protect our country" and still have a problem with going to war over nation building...

[gstelmack]

I hear it's possible for people to sign up to "protect our country" and still have a problem with going to war over nation building...

Um, no. A key factor in our military is that they don't (aren't supposed to :D ) get involved in politics. The military does what the politicians tell it to. When they don't, you get a military coup. I don't think any of us wants that.

If you join the military, you need to be prepared to go where the politicians tell you. You can't pick and choose your wars.

A key other reason for this is that many of us do feel this was to "protect our country" and that the world is a safer place without Hussein. So if you allow the troops to pick and choose their wars based on "will it protect the country?", who is going to define "protect our country"? If that's all you really want to do, join your local police force, or customs, or the FBI.

[MizzouRah]

Listen, I didn't think you guys would get this mad at me. I'll head back home right now. Geez.
You're the smart one. Death from a distance, out in the sea.

:)


Todd

[rkmsuf]

Isn't having to be in Canada punishment enough

[Chubby]

A key other reason for this is that many of us do feel this was to "protect our country" and that the world is a safer place without Hussein. So if you allow the troops to pick and choose their wars based on "will it protect the country?", who is going to define "protect our country"? If that's all you really want to do, join your local police force, or customs, or the FBI.
And many do not feel it was nescessary to protect our nation, don't you think that if there's people in the general populace that think that way that maybe there's soldiers thinking the same too?

Joining the reserves and joining the police/customs/FBI are just a tad different ;) Unless I'm missing the "Come join the FBI instantly" buildings :D

All the people who joined the army didn't do so with the intent to go fight a war in Iraq. If some don't want to go because they think (which I know, the armed forces discourages) that it's not right then fine.

[Chubby]

Isn't having to be in Canada punishment enough

Not if you're at the Pleasuredome! :p

[Fritz]

If this thread were duck duck goose, it is pretty clear who the goose would be.

[rkmsuf]

Not if you're at the Pleasuredome! :p


Club De Supersex!

[gstelmack]

All the people who joined the army didn't do so with the intent to go fight a war in Iraq. If some don't want to go because they think (which I know, the armed forces discourages) that it's not right then fine.

They lost that right when they joined the military. That's my point. They can't pick and choose their battles.

[rkmsuf]

All the people who joined the army didn't do so with the intent to go fight a war in Iraq. If some don't want to go because they think (which I know, the armed forces discourages) that it's not right then fine.


Boy, what in the hell are you talking about?

[Buddy Grant]

Isn't having to be in Canada punishment enough
Exactly. If you talk to most Canadians they'd do near anything to be able to live & work in the USA, away from their oppressive government and the prying eyes of the RCMP and Imperial Canadian Navy. From what I have seen it is pretty near a hell on Earth, and though I am enraged at these call-of-duty shirkers to the point where my head might explode at any moment, I also feel some pity for them, living as they are under such a repressive, terrorist supporting regime.

[MizzouRah]

They lost that right when they joined the military. That's my point. They can't pick and choose their battles.
Correct.

I didn't want to be over in Saudi Arabia/Iraq for 6 months during Operation DS, but I went wherever my commander told me to.

Don't sign up and take the oath if you want to pick and choose your war, it doesn't happen that way.


Todd

[Samdari]

All the people who joined the army didn't do so with the intent to go fight a war in Iraq. If some don't want to go because they think (which I know, the armed forces discourages) that it's not right then fine.

But everyone who joined the Army should have known that they could be required to fight WHEREVER THE PRESIDENT TOLD THEM TOO, for reasons the president decided. They are allowed to think, but are not allowed to select which orders they will follow or which conflicts represent the best interests of the US.

It is absolutely, positively NOT ok to allow soldiers to decide when they want to follow orders, and when they don't. Allowing that would be inviting every rogue nation in the world to come in here and take whatever they'd like, killing whoever gets in the way. Its ridiculous.

And I am not just saying that because you punked my Isotopes today.

[Karim]

Exactly. If you talk to most Canadians they'd do near anything to be able to live & work in the USA, away from their oppressive government and the prying eyes of the RCMP and Imperial Canadian Navy. From what I have seen it is pretty near a hell on Earth, and though I am enraged at these call-of-duty shirkers to the point where my head might explode at any moment, I also feel some pity for them, living as they are under such a repressive, terrorist supporting regime.I have never had a run in with the RCMP or any of the Canadian Armed Forces. Canada is certainly nowhere near a "hell on Earth". If I had to define the one biggest problem in our country it would be institutionalized regionalism. While the federal government certainly can feel oppressive if you're not in Central Canada, especially if you don't support the Liberals, oppressive is too strong a term and doesn't really apply in this situation.

I'm in no hurry to leave this country to live and work in the US, although clearly the US would be first on the list if I had no other choice.

[MrBug708]

I hear it's possible for people to sign up to "protect our country" and still have a problem with going to war over nation building...
When was ther last time America was invaded by an Army? 1812?

[ice4277]

But everyone who joined the Army should have known that they could be required to fight WHEREVER THE PRESIDENT TOLD THEM TOO, for reasons the president decided. They are allowed to think, but are not allowed to select which orders they will follow or which conflicts represent the best interests of the US.

It is absolutely, positively NOT ok to allow soldiers to decide when they want to follow orders, and when they don't. Allowing that would be inviting every rogue nation in the world to come in here and take whatever they'd like, killing whoever gets in the way. Its ridiculous.

I agree. You gotta take the good with the bad when you join the military, and if you think there is a chance you are going to be so against going into a battleground, maybe you should think twice before joining. What's next, letting troops vote on whether or not they want to follow their direct CO's orders?

[Radii]

This isn't vietnam, this isn't a draft. You're not a "draft dogder" in this case, you're a deserter.

[Chubby]

When was ther last time America was invaded by an Army? 1812?
Well I would consider stopping Hitler to be defending the country, same with Japan and that whole Pearl Harbor thing you seem to have forgotten.

[Sharpieman]

Does anyone think that there will be a draft?

[Poli]

There's a NFL draft every year.

[rkmsuf]

Sometimes you leave the window open.

[jamesUMD]

When you get sworn in, you swear to follow the orders of your superiors, and your Commander in Chief. After that moment, they call the shots. If you don't like it then you should have had the balls to chicken out then. These guys will be known as cowards for the rest of their lives, and that makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. I didn't want to go to Bosnia either, but the Army wasn't putting me up and paying me 365 days a year to look pretty in my uniform and some morons unfortunately just don't get that.

[judicial clerk]

Their's is not to question why

[SoxWin]

Isn't having to be in Canada punishment enough

When compared to the US. No......

[SoxWin]

I have never had a run in with the RCMP or any of the Canadian Armed Forces. Canada is certainly nowhere near a "hell on Earth". If I had to define the one biggest problem in our country it would be institutionalized regionalism. While the federal government certainly can feel oppressive if you're not in Central Canada, especially if you don't support the Liberals, oppressive is too strong a term and doesn't really apply in this situation.

I'm in no hurry to leave this country to live and work in the US, although clearly the US would be first on the list if I had no other choice.

Being a n00b and not knowing the board personalities, my best guess is Buddys' post was satire.

If not, he's a moron, but my guess is not.

[Tigercat]

I think a fitting punishment would be that they can't reenter the country for a long time, maybe a decade or two. I am not sure prison is quite the right punishment(even though that is done with lots of AWOLs), this is just the very worst case of quiting on a job. And because of the nature of the job and the way they are avoiding their contract, it seems fitting to let them stay there and just keep them out for a long while. Not sure permanent revoke of citizenship is the right decision either, the permanence of that could make it harsher than years in prison. A decade or two in Canada should do the trick.

[stkelly52]

I can actually understand why someone would do this. A lot of the people who join the military are just out of highscool and have no idea what they want to do with their life. they have had 12 years of school and they hated that, they are not ready to try 4 more. They don't have the skills to get a decent paying job, and they are sick of living at home with mommy and daddy. Then they meet a recruiter who tells them how wonderful life in the military is. They are offered up to $30,000 as an enlistment bonus, more money then they have ever seen (for some as much as their parents make in a year) and they think "yeah, this would be a good experiance for me. this will help me be all that I can be." They know that in theory we could go to war, but hey in theory you could get in a car acident if you drive, it's not real likly. So they sign up and they get 3-4 years older, more mature and they suddenly we are at war and they realize that they don't really want to do this. I completly understand it, but I also say that's tough, you make decisions in life, and now you have to live with those decisions. You signed the dotted line and aggreed to be a soldier, so you must do what you are required to do. You knew that the maximum sentance for desertion in time of war is death.

[nfg22]

I can actually understand why someone would do this. A lot of the people who join the military are just out of highscool and have no idea what they want to do with their life. they have had 12 years of school and they hated that, they are not ready to try 4 more. They don't have the skills to get a decent paying job, and they are sick of living at home with mommy and daddy. Then they meet a recruiter who tells them how wonderful life in the military is. They are offered up to $30,000 as an enlistment bonus, more money then they have ever seen (for some as much as their parents make in a year) and they think "yeah, this would be a good experiance for me. this will help me be all that I can be." They know that in theory we could go to war, but hey in theory you could get in a car acident if you drive, it's not real likly. So they sign up and they get 3-4 years older, more mature and they suddenly we are at war and they realize that they don't really want to do this. I completly understand it, but I also say that's tough, you make decisions in life, and now you have to live with those decisions. You signed the dotted line and aggreed to be a soldier, so you must do what you are required to do. You knew that the maximum sentance for desertion in time of war is death.


I know your not condoning this behavior but rather explaining it. but let me say the other side and maybe take this argument to "ad absurdum". I will refrain from using the most harsh analogy because it is very vulgar but this one should work. A man has sex with a woman because it feels good at the time and seemed like a good idea and then she gets pregnant. He leaves because he doesnt want the responsibility. That is the same case, you sign up for the reward but when the chance of responsibility comes along you must bare with it.