What's happened to the Cubs?

[MrBug708]

Losers of 6 of 7? Do they NOT want the playoffs?

[Neuqua]

eat a fart.

[The_herd]

The Cubs offense is average.

The 'vaunted' pitching staff hasn't shown up on most nights lately.

Sammy Sosa needs to retire.

The bullpen is great in non-save situations. However, in save situations.....

Dusty Baker is the most overrated manager in baseball.

[The_herd]

Dola

Its not really that the pitching staff hasn't shown up (although they haven't lived up to the hype). Its more of Dusty believing that his starters must go at least 7 innings and takes them into the 8th on a lot of nights.

[MrBug708]

eat a fart.

*grabs throat*

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Such a shame. Really it is.

[mauchow]

The Cubs offense is average. false, they are actually above average.

The 'vaunted' pitching staff hasn't shown up on most nights lately. you answered it on your own with a dola

Sammy Sosa needs to retire. 35 hrs, 80 rbi's(missed over a month.. or so) is better than lots of guys in their prime. Retire, nah? Bat 8th and take a 10 million dollar pay-cut, yeah!

The bullpen is great in non-save situations. However, in save situations..... 99% agree. There have been a few times where the bullpen completely breaks down and look like a bunch of little leaguers

Dusty Baker is the most overrated manager in baseball. Don't get me started on this. I could ramble on for hours how bad of a manager he is. Bad decisions day in and day out. HEY! Let's bunt with Nomar in the 9th with one out!!! GREAT IDEA BUTT FUCK!

[markprior22]

1) Way too many hitters that strike out far too much
2) Lack of internal leadership (in the clubhouse)
3) Continuation of point 2-Too much whining (just get out there and play the game)
4) Weak bullpen

Starting pitching has done a tremendous job considering the injuries. Glendon Rusch has to be considered for most valuable Cub (though it's tough to take away from the consistency Ramirez brought to the offense all year long).

[ShaefIllini]

I agree with what everyone said. I also can't overstate the importance of losing an effective Prior. He's just getting into form right now due to all of his injuries, but unfortunately we've wasted his last two starts, which have been spectacular

Couldn't agree more regarding Baker. He is a terrible in game manager. In the post game interview he was asked why he left Remlinger in to face Dunn. Dusty said something along the lines of "I'd rather have Mike face him than Farnsworth." Fair enough. Fortunately, Steve Stone politely pointed out that Dunn was 5-6 against Remlinger, but only 1-13 against Farnsworth. Baker plays his 'hunches' all the time, as long as the man he goes with is over 30. All in all, he has made more than his share of dumb decisions.

[Radii]

*cries*

[cthomer5000]

It's certainly been a full-blown meltdown.

[LloydLungs]

Agreed about Dusty -- he's a great clubhouse manager but an unspeakably horrible field manager. Steve Stone was furious today and very nearly went on a tirade against Dusty... he managed to restrain himself but you could tell he was fighting it.

And the Cubs offense is either horrible, when the wind is blowing in or in cavernous parks, or explosive, in small parks or with the wind blowing out. They're not a baseball team, they're a home run derby team. When they elect to field a baseball team again, I will happily re-invest myself emotionally in the team. For now, my biggest frustration is that no heads are going to roll over this disaster.

[The_herd]

Agreed about Dusty -- he's a great clubhouse manager but an unspeakably horrible field manager. Steve Stone was furious today and very nearly went on a tirade against Dusty... he managed to restrain himself but you could tell he was fighting it.

Dusty's biggest problem is the fact that he wants to be a great clubhouse manager. He is more concerned with his players liking him, not hurting anyone's feelings, and being loyal to veterans than winning games.

And the Cubs offense is either horrible, when the wind is blowing in or in cavernous parks, or explosive, in small parks or with the wind blowing out. They're not a baseball team, they're a home run derby team. When they elect to field a baseball team again, I will happily re-invest myself emotionally in the team. For now, my biggest frustration is that no heads are going to roll over this disaster.

This is why I argue that their offense is average. They can average 10 runs a game one week and stuggle to score a run the next. Most of the year their 2 best hitters were hitting 5th and 6th and Corey Patterson should be nowhere near the leadoff spot. Nomar was a nice addition to the lineup, but most of the time there's noone one on base and at least 1 out when he comes to the plate.

[Aesyrqwe]

Just blame the curse instead of lack of team chemistry and desire for winning..

-Aes-

[hoopsguy]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the lack of a leadoff hitter or really hammered on the lack of a closer. The middle relief cost the team its share of games in July/August, but has been better than average down the stretch. However, Hawkins is saving 33% of his one run lead save opportunities. It is pretty hard work to be that bad.

The offense just does not generate a consistent attack this year. They go for long stretches of innings where there are not hits. I don't have the numbers in front of me on this, but I'm sure they lead the league in solo home runs. If you subtract that number from runs to remove the solo shots I bet they would be near the bottom in runs scored. That speaks to botht the players and management. If they aren't going to hold Dusty accountable (they won't) then they should probably sacrifice a hitting coach. That would be Gary Matthews. And they needed to can Wendell Kim like tuna (3rd base coach) last year. He has cost them at least eight games over the last two years with his horrific decisions.

Beyond Kim, the team is horrible on the bases. You also get the sense that they play for themselves and their contracts more than they do for each other. As much as I hate the Cardinals, this last point is a stark contrast to the St. Louis team I have seen this year. All in all, this is just a team that is less than the sum of its parts and is not capable of sustaining winning streaks over a 15-20 day stretch. Unfortunately, with as many teams as there were in the wild card hunt the Cubs needed to put together a good run in September rather than backing into it. Not going to happen, it appears.

On the bright side, I would suggest they give Rothchild (sp?), the pitching coach, whatever contract he wants. I think he has done a terrific job this year. Also the starters should be very strong for next year with Dempster under contract even if they let Clement go and look at some of their top minor league prospects to provide competition for the 5th starter spot. Prior/Wood/Zambrano, an aging Maddux, and 5th will be competition between Dempster, Rusch (if he resigns will likely have same role as he did this year as swing guy between starters/pen), and Mitre (looked very good in minors)/Guzman/someone. This assumes that Clement is let go, which I think needs to be done so the offense can be re-tooled.

I don't think they will ever have a young offense or a team based on speed under Baker, but they have to do something different on offense next season. They will have some issues with the cap since Sosa has one more year at 18mil, but Alou will be gone, Nomar will likely be gone if he doesn't get real about his salary demands, and there will be money to add some players who get on base, hit to the opposite field, and care about team success. I hope/expect that Hendry will get this done.

[Cuckoo]

I was going to stay out of this thread, basically just because I'm actually pretty upset by this year's Cubs team. As a fan, this one has been so much more difficult than all of the losing seasons combined. I'm going to offer my opinion on them, for whatever it's worth and for whomever decides to take the time to read it.

Almost all of the things that have been mentioned here as well as many things being discussed on ESPN and the like are probably true. They had injury problems early on; they can't play "small ball"; their bullpen has been inconsistent; they don't have a traditional lead-off hitter; they don't have righty/lefty balance in the line-up; they make fundamental mistakes in baserunning and fielding; they have attitude issues; they whine and refuse to take responsibility for their own actions; Baker has made some questionable managerial decisions; Kim has made some questionable decisions at third base; they have had problems with umpires; they lack focus; they strikeout too much; they don't walk enough; they were tired after the rough patch at the end... The list literally goes on and on. But you know what?

None of that matters, at least not to me. Despite all of those issues, they still should have won. I don't think they could have matched what the Cardinals did this year, but they should have been the Wild Card team without a battle. But they didn't win enough, and I don't think that any or even all of those reasons or excuses (whatever term one prefers to use) mattered at all in the end.

I don't know what will happen in the final three games. Obviously, my ability to make predictions on it is sorely lacking. The Astros and the Giants could fall apart, and the Cubs could squeek in. I doubt it, but it could happen. Whether it happens or not, though, this year's Cubs team has one big problem. They aren't winners. At least that's the way I view them.

Now, does that mean they should scrap things and start over? Of course not. I believe that Baker is a good manager. I believe that the Cubs have one of the best starting pitching staffs in baseball, and I believe they have a core of young guys who will eventually win the World Series. I believe it, and I would put good money that it will happen in the next few years. But for whatever reason, this team... this current make-up of guys... this 2004 Cubs squad are not winners. And I think to fix the problem, they'll need to shake things up a little bit in the offseason. I can't say yet exactly what moves should be made, just that some should.

I think character is an intangible that is almost impossible to discern; winning teams have it, and teams that underperform don't have enough of it. This Cubs team, in my humble opinion, is not a winning team.

I know that people will disagree with me, and probably some will think that I'm glossing over the important mechanical issues of baseball to point out something fairly philosophical. And I understand that.

I simply think that there's more at work in the Cubs failures this season than their talent or even their performance.

Now... I'm still going to watch these last three games, and I'll root as rabidly as I always have, but this post kind of puts a cap on this season for me. It was my bit of venting, and I don't even mind if nobody reads it. I needed to get that frustration out, a frustration that shouldn't bother me so much given the absolute unimportance of sports in relation to such bigger things like MJFH's post yesterday. But for some strange reason, it does bother me, and getting it all out helps.

And after it's over, I'll invest it all into football, and I'll do it all over again. :)

[Crapshoot]

The Leadoff hitter bit is pretty irrelvant- and as a pen, the Cubs are about league average according to BP. The Giants have had the 2nd worst pen in baseball- we are the ones who have suffered. There problem is a weak offense, old players who get more tired as the season goes on, and Mark Prior turning human this year.

[Cuckoo]

The Leadoff hitter bit is pretty irrelvant- and as a pen, the Cubs are about league average according to BP. The Giants have had the 2nd worst pen in baseball- we are the ones who have suffered. There problem is a weak offense, old players who get more tired as the season goes on, and Mark Prior turning human this year.

Just to argue a little bit, I think you're incredibly wrong. The Cubs don't have a weak offense at all. In fact, they have one of the better offenses in the league. It's just a limited one. Moises Alou and Sammy Sosa are old, but they're the only players on the offense that can really be classified as that, and Sammy has only been a small part of the offense all year long, despite his power numbers. Moises has been a big part, and I do agree that he looks tired. But, in general, the vast majority of the offense is not old and don't look tired to me. They're just inconsistent. Very inconsistent.

Prior had injury problems and struggled with his consistency as well when he got back. But the past month or so, he's been absolutely outstanding, back to where he was. Again, I think his struggles are an issue that can be pointed to, but hardly one of their biggest problems, in my opinion. The pitching was strong in his absence and strong when he struggled. When he returned to form, it continued to be strong.

[JeeberD]

This thread makes me smile

:)

[Crapshoot]

Just to argue a little bit, I think you're incredibly wrong. The Cubs don't have a weak offense at all. In fact, they have one of the better offenses in the league. It's just a limited one. Moises Alou and Sammy Sosa are old, but they're the only players on the offense that can really be classified as that, and Sammy has only been a small part of the offense all year long, despite his power numbers. Moises has been a big part, and I do agree that he looks tired. But, in general, the vast majority of the offense is not old and don't look tired to me. They're just inconsistent. Very inconsistent.

Prior had injury problems and struggled with his consistency as well when he got back. But the past month or so, he's been absolutely outstanding, back to where he was. Again, I think his struggles are an issue that can be pointed to, but hardly one of their biggest problems, in my opinion. The pitching was strong in his absence and strong when he struggled. When he returned to form, it continued to be strong.

Ya, I may have been a bit harsh- but the OBP on that team is awful (23rd in the majors). That being said, Prior circa 2003 would have had these team be a lot better than it is now- the pitching was decent in his abscense, but you have to seperate him from the team in evaluating his value.

[VPI97]

Yay Reds!

[Cuckoo]

Ya, I may have been a bit harsh- but the OBP on that team is awful (23rd in the majors). That being said, Prior circa 2003 would have had these team be a lot better than it is now- the pitching was decent in his abscense, but you have to seperate him from the team in evaluating his value.

True enough. The Cubs don't get on base, but they score runs. Every team is built differently, and this one's built for power. When they go cold, it's painful. I hope that in the offseason, they address the issue of guys getting on base because an offense like the Cardinals, where they have guys like Womack and Renteria who could get on base in front of Rolen, Pujols, and Edmonds is just darn tough to stop.

And I think Prior is returning to last year, or he has already returned. It may be too little too late, though.

[Crapshoot]

Okay Womack is about as likely to repeat this deal with the devil as I am to announce my impending nuptials to Jennifer Love Hewitt. The Cubs should be using Walker at leadoff for one, or possibly Derek Lee- but that may have cost them a game or so at most.

[Cuckoo]

Okay Womack is about as likely to repeat this deal with the devil as I am to announce my impending nuptials to Jennifer Love Hewitt.


:D

[Crapshoot]

More so- they use their worst hitter as their leadoff hitter.

[GoldenEagle]

I love how Kerry Woods just gave up a 2 run home run to Mike Hampton. How beautiful is that. There is no way they are going to the play offs. And with SF playing the Dodgers, all I can say is, Go 'Stros! :D

[JeeberD]

Hampton can swing the lumber...

[clintl]

This is the first time since the early '70s the Cubs have had back-to-back winning seasons, and you Cubs fans are calling for Dusty's head? What a bunch of ingrates! You deserve Larry Bowa for that.

[MrBug708]

No worse, Jimy Williams!

[ISiddiqui]

This is the first time since the early '70s the Cubs have had back-to-back winning seasons, and you Cubs fans are calling for Dusty's head?

Um... who said Dusty was the reason they won? I'd think Wood, Prior, Ramirez, Alou, etc, etc are responsible for that. Now if they were for getting rid of the GM, I'd agree. However, Dusty sucks. He kills young pitchers and just isn't that great of a manager.

[JeeberD]

No worse, Jimy Williams!

*shudders*

I wouldn't wish that fate upon my worst enemy...

[SackAttack]

The Leadoff hitter bit is pretty irrelvant- and as a pen, the Cubs are about league average according to BP. The Giants have had the 2nd worst pen in baseball- we are the ones who have suffered. There problem is a weak offense, old players who get more tired as the season goes on, and Mark Prior turning human this year.

You're telling me the only bullpen in baseball worse than the Giants' pen is the Rockies' pen? I find that hard to believe, you don't win 90 games if your bullpen is THAT atrocious.

(Although I wouldn't say that the Giants have a great bullpen, either. I just think they're somewhere closer to league average.)