Just watched Miracle

[Glengoyne]

And I loved it. I even teared up a couple of times. I really enjoyed it.

It had never occurred to me that Herb Brooks actually went into the games intending to beat the Soviets. I have always believed/felt that the team just gelled, and played over their collective heads during the games. I thought that it was just a strange confluence of events that lead to the U.S. gold medal.

The story told in Miracle made it clear that Brooks crafted a team that could beat the Soviets, from day one. To me that makes the story, that much more incredible. To think that Herb Brooks actually dared to dream that his team could actually win the gold, that that was his goal the whole time, was something I had never considered.

[moriarty]

Good movie .. but uh, what took you so long.

My only complaint was that the gold medal game was kinda an afterthought in the movie. Otherwise well done, and who woulda figured Kurt Russell of all people could pull off a respectable Brooks.

[ISiddiqui]

The gold medal game is an afterthought to most people looking back as well ;).

[mckerney]

Highly Recommended (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005TPC7/qid=1102223694/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/002-7064677-1296007?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846)

[mckerney]

The gold medal game is an afterthought to most people looking back as well ;).

So is the fact that there wasn't really a 'gold medal game'. The game after facing the Soviets wasn't any more or less important as far as winning the gold went.

[Glengoyne]

Good movie .. but uh, what took you so long.

My only complaint was that the gold medal game was kinda an afterthought in the movie. Otherwise well done, and who woulda figured Kurt Russell of all people could pull off a respectable Brooks.
The wife and I have a four year old and a six month old. We barely ever get to see even the movies I think the kid(s) will sit through. I'm just behind the curve.

[moriarty]

So is the fact that there wasn't really a 'gold medal game'. The game after facing the Soviets wasn't any more or less important as far as winning the gold went.

Wait a minute. I thought the game after the Soviets was for the gold medal - if they had lost they would have settled for a silver (or do I just remember wrong).

I know beating the Soviets was the big deal ... but do you still think they would be remembered the same way if they had beat the Soviets but come home with a silver.

[Tekneek]

As I recall, a loss in the last game might have had them settling for the bronze. It wasn't a "gold medal game" though, in the sense that there is one these days. I think it was all done based on group play, and not with a tournament bracket like it is today. I'm not sure though and just shooting from the hip. :)

[mckerney]

Wait a minute. I thought the game after the Soviets was for the gold medal - if they had lost they would have settled for a silver (or do I just remember wrong).

The game against Finland after playing the soviets was not a game for any medal, and the US could have wound up without a medal if they'd lost, but there were also situations where the US could have won the gold without a victory over Finland after beating the Soviets (depending on what happened between the USSR and Sweden). The tournament was round robin, not elimition, so there were no game being played for medals, and it's not accurate to call the game against Finland a gold medal game when the best Finland was playing for was bronze, and either team could have wound up without a medal (once again, depending on the outcome of USSR vs. Sweden.


I know beating the Soviets was the big deal ... but do you still think they would be remembered the same way if they had beat the Soviets but come home with a silver.

It may not have had the same impact, but it's a situation like making the playoffs in the NFL. The final game may be the one where you clinch a playoff spot, but that victory is no more or less important than a victory in week 8. Hell, the week 8 victory may even be more important if it's against someone you're in a race with for the playoff spot.

[Tekneek]

The victory over the USSR was important for reasons way beyond that individual tournament, of course.

[WussGawd]

So is the fact that there wasn't really a 'gold medal game'. The game after facing the Soviets wasn't any more or less important as far as winning the gold went.

Basically right. The medal round back then was done differently. Teams took their point total (2 for a win, 1 for a tie) from the round robin, 12 teams split into two groups first round into the second round. Courtesy of the USA's tie with Sweden, and the fact that Sweden made it to the medal round, even with a win over the Soviet Union, the US needed a win over Finland to lock up any kind of medal. On Sunday a Finnish win over the US (very plausible, particularly since Finland led after two periods), and a Swedish win over the USSR would have wound up in no medal for the US.

Frankly, as far as hopes for any kind of medal (gold, silver, or bronze), you could make a case that the game against Finland was *more* important than that of the USSR, particularly since the US was banking on an outside shot at the bronze going into the tournament. Even with a loss against the Soviets in the Friday game, a win over the Finns on Sunday would have assured the US of the Bronze.

Instead, the US shocked the Soviets, and suddenly, Gold, not Bronze became the realistic possibility.

[WussGawd]

Wait a minute. I thought the game after the Soviets was for the gold medal - if they had lost they would have settled for a silver (or do I just remember wrong).

I know beating the Soviets was the big deal ... but do you still think they would be remembered the same way if they had beat the Soviets but come home with a silver.

For those who weren't alive back then, or were too young to remember, the Friday game against the Soviets was at 5 PM Eastern Time. It was tape delayed by several hours courtesy of ABC (these were in the days before ESPN was in many homes outside of the Northeast, so they could get away with it). ABC's viewership that night was huge (It was broadcast at what would have been 8 PM Eastern, IIRC.

The Finland game though, was broadcast live at what would have been Noon Eastern, 9 AM Pacific on a Sunday morning. I've often wondered just how many people tuned in on Friday who slept late on Sunday, not realizing that Sunday was just as, if not more important of a game courtesy of the Friday win.

[WussGawd]

The victory over the USSR was important for reasons way beyond that individual tournament, of course.

You know. As somebody who lived through that era, I think the political/social ramifications of that game have been greatly overblown by memory, and unfortunately, by much of the media coverage of the Lake Placid Games since (the HBO special, Sports Illustrated's recent issue, ESPN's coverage of it a few years back (20th Anniversary, I believe) and Miracle itself.

1980 was still a terrible year. Later in 1980, the US boycotted the Moscow Games, and I remember this great feeling of loss at that by the athletes themselves. It was truly bizarre seeing evening newscasts in August of that year showing an opening ceremony of people marching past Red Square without us being there (NBC pulled out of their broadcast agreement, so the games weren't shown here).

On the foreign front, the Afghanistan invasion looked ominous, and we started draft registration at the time in response.

In Iran, we still had another year of the hostage crisis. Actually, the hostage crisis got worse after Lake Placid. In April, a failed attempt to rescue the hostages resulted in a couple of crashed helicopters, and a huge amount of embarrassment for the military. There were a lot of fears shortly after that happened for the lives of those poor folks.

Domestically, Inflation and unemployment were still out of control. They still would be for most of the next two years.

Frankly, I think the biggest thing that turned the mood of the country around at that time was actually the release of the hostages in January 1981. Reagan was inaugurated at the time, and though things were still rough for a while, it felt like we'd finally seen the worst. The "Miracle on Ice" was a feel good story in 1980, and certainly it helped at a time when *all* of the news was bad, but I think the end of the hostage debacle was bigger.

[Tekneek]

Oh yeah, no doubt. I'm not sure anyone suggested that the defeat of the USSR made the world a better place, or was more important than the hostages finally being released.

I was very young then, but I remember watching it with my dad. Hockey was something we watched all the time, and 1 of the two sports I played a lot of. I didn't realize how special it was at the time, but all the adults around me thought it was great.

[Dr. Sak]

For anyone who wants to get the actual games check out the site i have linked below...

VHS
VHS 1980 Olympic Games (http://webpages.charter.net/phentensports/order.html#1980)

DVD
DVD 1980 Olympic Hockey (http://www.hdhockey.com/miracleonice.html)

[MrBug708]

Sounds like the group play for Hockey in 1980 was more effed up then the BCS is now

[WussGawd]

Sounds like the group play for Hockey in 1980 was more effed up then the BCS is now

Well, unlike the BCS, your shot at a gold medal, at the very least was decided on the ice, instead of by a few dozen computer programmers, sportswriters, and coaches. But it was pretty hard to follow if you didn't understand or study it.

Bottom line, you needed to win every game to win gold back then.

Finland won the bronze with 2 losses that year (US & Soviet Union)
USSR won the silver that year with the one loss to the USA.
USA won the gold with 1 tie blemishing their record, first game against the Swedes.

The Olympics do it differently now. Teams still do round robin play to get in the medal round (Top 2 teams in each group advance), but the preliminary round results get chucked for the medal round in favor of a pretty standard 4 team tournament.

[WussGawd]

Oh yeah, no doubt. I'm not sure anyone suggested that the defeat of the USSR made the world a better place, or was more important than the hostages finally being released.

I was very young then, but I remember watching it with my dad. Hockey was something we watched all the time, and 1 of the two sports I played a lot of. I didn't realize how special it was at the time, but all the adults around me thought it was great.

Oh, I'm not minimizing it too much. As a hockey fan, I remember sitting down with my dad every night of those two weeks, watching the games, even the nights the US didn't play. Hockey was one of the few things we had in common when I was teenager, and we couldn't talk about much else without arguing. It was a momentuous event just because *nobody* gave the team a shot to beat the Soviets. Outside chance of a bronze was what we were hoping for. And it was a shot in the arm at the right time we needed one as a country.

But to listen to the HBO special in particular describe it, you'd think that Herb Brooks rescued the hostages, ended the war in Afghanistan, and found the cure for cancer all rolled up into a sheet of ice on Lake Placid. I enjoyed the special for the words of the players, but the overarching theme was a bit over the top.

I still consider it the biggest upset, any sport, any time. To take a college all star team and beat the Soviet National team, basically a group of the best Soviet hockey professionals who'd played together for over a decade, was a great thing. I'm quite certain nothing I'll never see anything in my lifetime that will quite live up to the tears welling up/rolling down my eyes as Al Michaels counted down those last 10 seconds in front of that old 25" Zenith in my parents living room, and my dad sitting there doing the same thing right next to me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Y'know, I still haven't seen the movie.
It's sitting in a pile of other stuff I've bought & haven't watched yet.

And, just from my own recollections of being 13 & 14 (so they're probably addled to some extent), I remember more elation from the Miracle on Ice than from the hostage release.
The word I'd pick to describe my memories of the latter would probably be "relief".

[sterlingice]

Hey, everyone, get rid of the spoilers!

No, Jon, the US didn't win. ;)

SI

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Y'know, I still haven't seen the movie.
It's sitting in a pile of other stuff I've bought & haven't watched yet.


Although people here would disagree, I suggest you watch the Karl Malden (Brooks) & Steve Guttenburg (Craig) version instead (Miracle on Ice). It is way better. Trust me.








:D