Rotoworld says Randy Johnson traded to Yankees

[Joe]

wow

[Bearcat729]

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=4288



According to Newsday, the Yankees will get Randy Johnson in a three-team deal that will send Javier Vazquez to the Dodgers and Brad Penny, Shawn Green and Yhency Brazoban to the Diamondbacks.
The Dodgers would also get top Yankee prospects Eric Duncan and Dioner Navarro in a deal that still has some details to be worked out, most notably Green's no-trade clause. We just don't get how this works for anyone but the Yankees. It'd be OK for Arizona if they're getting some money. The Dodgers clear salary, especially since the Yankees are likely paying a portion of Vazquez's deal, but Penny to Vazquez isn't really an upgrade. This must to be some sort of a prelude to a Carlos Beltran signing for the Dodgers. Paul DePodesta wouldn't do it unless he had an endgame.

[Bomber]

This guy at rotoworld doesn't know what he's talking about the Dodgers are making out like bandits.

[Arles]

ESPN is now reporting the deal all but done:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1947995

[Arles]

I don't see what Arizona would want with Green. Isn't he scheduled to make a ton of cash? If that's the case, just keep Johnson.

[Leonidas]

This guy at rotoworld doesn't know what he's talking about the Dodgers are making out like bandits.

I agree, Vazquez for that would be a great pickup for the Dodgers. As for the Yanks add-ins, do any of these guys really qualify as top prospects? If true, nice deal for Yanks and Dodgers and I'm not so sure Arizona is getting anything near fair value on the Big Unit.

[jbmagic]

how does dodgers make out if it goes thru

there getting Javier Vazquez but losing Penny...no upgrade there...

and the trade they did with loduca, mota to florida last season was no advanage for us..

and we lost finley too..

[Arles]

I agree, Vazquez for that would be a great pickup for the Dodgers. As for the Yanks add-ins, do any of these guys really qualify as top prospects? If true, nice deal for Yanks and Dodgers and I'm not so sure Arizona is getting anything near fair value on the Big Unit.
Unless Arizona is getting a mountain of cash, this deal doesn't work all that well. But, if they get a big chunk of Green's salary in cash from NYY, I don't see how they would get better proven commodities for Johnson than Penny and Green. It's a better deal than the Konerko/Garland combo mentioned earlier. I guess the pitcher is a pretty solid reliever as well. I'm not real excited about the deal, but it's better than the White Sox one or the mentioned Vasquez/Flash Gordon/prospect deals so far. The DBacks would have to get some cash though to make it worthwhile.

As to Dioner Navarro. I think he's a catcher and was built up by Cashman when the DBacks were talking with the Yankees. All I know is that Arizona is going into next season with Koye Hill and Kelly Stinnett at catcher and they had no interest at all in Navarro. So, I can't imagine he's all that great.

[SackAttack]

This must to be some sort of a prelude to a Carlos Beltran signing for the Dodgers. Paul DePodesta wouldn't do it unless he had an endgame.

Just like trading LoDuca and Mota to wind up with Randy Johnson and Steve Finley...oops, wait, Randy doesn't wanna go, so that turns into just Finley, who we let walk without even offering him arbitration to secure a draft pick in return.

Is that the kind of endgame you mean?

Where's my IHOF head-banging smiley?

[duckman]

How many years are there remaining on Green's contract? Maybe they are thinking of dumping him after the season?

[Arles]

How many years are there remaining on Green's contract? Maybe they are thinking of dumping him after the season?
If that's the case, why not keep Johnson and use his $16 million to get an ace pitcher in FA and a slugger in 05-06?

The only way this works is if they get $10 mil or so to offset Green's salary. So, you end up paying about half what Johnson was making for both Green and Penny (not too bad). Then, the DBacks could still add another $7-$8 mil in salary and be at their mark of $65 million.

[Crapshoot]

not happening...

he Arizona Republic's Bob McManaman told ESPNews the proposed three-team Randy Johnson trade is hardly a done deal. He believes Johnson may now be leaning toward staying in Arizon

[Crapshoot]

in any case- it isnt formal yet.

[McSweeny]

well staying in off-season theme... rotoworld now says the trade is hardly a done deal

[Arles]

I don't know. The more I look at this, the less sense it makes. My guess is Arizona holds on to Randy unless they feel they have a legit chance at Clement.

[Bomber]

Navarro is one of the best catching prospects in MLB. He struggled last year, but how many 20 year old catchers make it to Triple A. Navarro was the number 1 Yankee prospect last year and the future replacement of Jorge Posada. Eric Duncan is the Yankees number 1 prospect this year and is an absolute stud. Most Yankees fans I know are crying at losing these two guys, even for RJ. The Dodgers made out like bandits.

[duckman]

If that's the case, why not keep Johnson and use his $16 million to get an ace pitcher in FA and a slugger in 05-06?

The only way this works is if they get $10 mil or so to offset Green's salary. So, you end up paying about half what Johnson was making for both Green and Penny (not too bad). Then, the DBacks could still add another $7-$8 mil in salary and be at their mark of $65 million.
That's why I was asking the question. I wasn't sure what their intentions are because I don't follow the Diamondbacks. :p

How many years are there left on Johnson's contract? Green? Do they have guarantee contracts?

[SackAttack]

So, let's see here.

We signed Encarnacion for $5m last season, signed Kevin Brown for $105m over 7 years back in the '90s, LoDuca, Abercrombie and Koyie Hill were products of LA's farm system. Guillermo Mota I thought was drafted by LA, but might have been a trade acquisition.


Raul Mondesi = Shawn Green

Kevin Brown = Jeff Weaver + Yhency Brazoban

LoDuca + Mota + Encarnacion = Choi, Penny, and minor league P Bill Murphy

Murphy + Hill + Abercrombie = Steve Finley (FA signing with Angels, no compensatory draft pick)

Penny + Green + Brazoban = Javier Vazquez, Dioner Navarro, and Eric Duncan.

So ultimately we wind up with Jeff Weaver, Hee Soep Choi, Javier Vazquez, the 2004 NL West title, and a couple prospects for LoDuca, Brown, Mota, Green, Encarnacion, and some prospects.

the 2004 NL West title is good, but the rest of it just makes me want to cry. There better HAD be an endgame to all of this.

[Arles]

According to recent reports in AZ (over the past week or so), the DBacks are leaning towards keeping Johnson. The rationale is that their payroll is currently only about $54 mil with Johnson. Plus, they think a rotation of Johnson, Ortiz and Webb could have a chance in the West. Then, if Johnson won't extend, they let him walk and use his $16 mil on an ace pitcher and another piece for 06. The more I think about it, the more this makes sense.

[jbmagic]

are the dodgers planning to get Beltran , if this trade goes thru? is that why there freeing salaries up?

[Leonidas]

not happening...

he Arizona Republic's Bob McManaman told ESPNews the proposed three-team Randy Johnson trade is hardly a done deal. He believes Johnson may now be leaning toward staying in Arizon

Does Johnson really know what the F he wants now? The guys seems to be all over the board.

[Bomber]

The Yankees still don't have a centerfielder.

[Bomber]

not happening...

he Arizona Republic's Bob McManaman told ESPNews the proposed three-team Randy Johnson trade is hardly a done deal. He believes Johnson may now be leaning toward staying in Arizon

He's a newspaper reporter what does he know?

[Bomber]

Here are some scouting reports on the two Yankees' prospects:

1. ERIC DUNCAN, 3b Age: 20 Ht: 6-3 Wt: 210 B-T: L-R
Drafted: HS—Florham Park, N.J., 2003 (1st round) Signed by: Cesar Presbott

Background: When his family moved from California to New Jersey when he was in fifth grade, Eric Duncan was on his way to becoming a Yankees fan. Duncan, whose father Hal idolized Mickey Mantle, grew up admiring the stars of the recent New York dynasty, such as Derek Jeter and Paul O’Neill, his favorite player. Less than a year after being drafted 27th overall in 2003, he found himself working out next to Jeter at the club’s winter facility in New York. Duncan had committed to Louisiana State, where the coaches considered him the nation's top prep hitter likely to go to college. Once the Yankees selected him in the first round though, it was clear he wasn't going to school. Duncan improved his draft stock by hitting six balls out of the Great American Ballpark during a predraft workout for the Reds, who strongly considered him at No. 14.

Strengths: An advanced hitter for his age, Duncan has significant power. He doesn't have a perfect swing or one that's exceptionally short, but it's a simple stroke that he repeats easily, and he generates good bat speed. His lefthanded pull power should make him an ideal fit for Yankee Stadium. He overpowers pitches left over the plate, ranking among the organization's leaders in extra-base hits as a teenager in his first full season. Duncan impressed the Yankees by showing up to spring training in excellent shape, adding muscle and quickness during the offseason. Low Class A Battle Creek manager Bill Mosiello likened Duncan's work ethic and approach to another lefthanded slugger Mosiello had coached at the University of Tennessee: Todd Helton. Duncan thrived after a promotion to high Class A Tampa, improving both his plate discipline and his defensive consistency at third base.

Weaknesses: While Duncan's error rate improved as the season wore on, he still gives scouts pause about whether or not third base is his best position. His arm is average at best because he short-arms the ball and doesn’t always follow through properly, a correctable flaw. His agility and first-step quickness also are a little below hot-corner standards. With repetition and experience, the Yankees believe he'll be an average defender at third. He tends to get a little pull-happy as many young sluggers do, and he slumped late in his stint at Battle Creek when pitchers exploited that weakness. New York correctly deduced that Duncan was getting stale against Midwest League pitching and with a mediocre team and challenged him with a promotion. He responded by making more consistent contact against tougher competition.

The Future: Duncan was pushed aggressively this year in part because the Yankees needed to showcase their most talented minor leaguer as trade bait. Rodriguez is entrenched as New York's third baseman and is signed for six more seasons. If the Yankees could somehow unload Jason Giambi, Duncan could give them a powerful, cheap option at first base. He probably needs two more years of minor league at-bats before that could happen. In the interim, he remains the New York's most valuable bargaining chip.

5. DIONER NAVARRO, c Age: 21 B-T: B-R Ht: 5-10 Wt: 190
Signed: Venezuela, 2000 Signed by: Ricardo Finol/Carlos Rios

Background: Like Robinson Cano, Navarro was widely discussed in trade talks in 2004. He entered the year as the organization's top prospect but struggled early, then recovered to earn promotions to Triple-A and New York. He singled off Toronto's David Bush for his first big league hit.

Strengths: Navarro has a compact swing that helps him make consistent hard contact from both sides of the plate. He's a gap-to-gap, line-drive hitter and isn't afraid to take a walk or work deep counts. A converted infielder, he has a strong throwing arm that helped him nab 33 percent of basestealers in 2004. His receiving skills are average.

Weaknesses: Navarro showed up at Double-A Trenton overconfident after his 58-game trial there in 2003, and his play suffered. An attempt to get stronger in the offseason backfired, as he came in overweight and lost some bat speed. He never has hit for much power, and his lack of conditioning made matters worse.

The Future: A strong finish helped Navarro salvage an otherwise uninspiring season, but he's clearly not ready for New York yet. He'll need at least another year and must re-establish himself as the heir to Jorge Posada.

[Arles]

Bomber,

Both kids look like nice prospects. I checked some of the old stories in Arizona and one of the quotes on Navarro was that the Yankees rushed him up their system to make it appear he was ready when he really wasn't. And some felt that it hurt his confidence and forced him to regress a bit. As an Arizona fan, I would want much more of a sure thing for Johnson than either of those guys. Still, they look like they could each amount to something in 2-3 years.

[jetpunk2000]

ESPN is now reporting the deal all but done:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1947995

I don't believe a word ESPN says lately. It seems like they are so interested in scooping everyone else that they've been wrong an amazing amount of times the last week or so. Remember they had Pedro signed sealed and delivered to the Red Sox Sunday night. I'm amazed anyone still listens to Peter Gammons anymore. I used to like the guy, but he's a joke now. I can't remember the last time he reported a proposed trade or signing that actually came to fruition.

[DaddyTorgo]

and now ESPN is reporting that the deal is not even close to done. According to an Arizona Republic sportswriter, RJ is now leaning towards staying in Arizona (this off SoSH) and he is going to take "two weeks" to think things over. So this thread may be a bit premature.

[Arles]

I don't believe a word ESPN says lately. It seems like they are so interested in scooping everyone else that they've been wrong an amazing amount of times the last week or so. Remember they had Pedro signed sealed and delivered to the Red Sox Sunday night. I'm amazed anyone still listens to Peter Gammons anymore. I used to like the guy, but he's a joke now. I can't remember the last time he reported a proposed trade or signing that actually came to fruition.
I'm with you (and posted similar thoughts in other threads). Gammons has had the following as "done deals" in the past week:

Johnson to NYY, Vasquez to CWS, Konerko and Garland to AZ - AZ's GM has since said this was never on the table.

Sexson signing with the Mets

Renteria returning to the Cardinals

Hudson going to the Dodgers for Edwin Jackson and Cora

Pedro going back to Boston

Finley going to Detroit

A monkey with a dart board could have been as accurate as Gammons in the past 10 or so days.

[jetpunk2000]

A monkey with a dart board could have been as accurate as Gammons in the past 10 or so days.

LOL...We need a smiley like that.

[DaddyTorgo]

A monkey with a dart board could have been as accurate as Gammons in the past 10 or so days.
Maybe that's how he gets his scoops??

[DeToxRox]

Until the deal pans out with the prospects, you can't say the Dodgers won.

How many stud prospects have been dealt that have turned out to be nothing.

To call any prospect a sure thing is unreasonable.

[DeToxRox]

I'd expect Navarro to be in the bigs either later this year or next year, especially given the Dodgers lack of a catcher. Duncan is only 19, so 2-3 years is probably right. I think he'll be starting the year off in Double A. The only sure thing in the Yankees' system in Robinson Cano, who I want starting this year, but with the Womack sigining I'm betting he's gone by mid-season for veteran help.

Again. I don't see how any prospect is a sure thing. Not trying to be an ass, but until they play in the Bigs and have success, they're not sure things.

[DeToxRox]

Obviously, but to gain two high quality prospects and a very good 28 year old pitcher for a pretty good pitcher in Penny, an overpaid declining outfielder in Greene, and a setup man is a pretty good deal. Plus with the money saved they can fill some of their holes.

I will say that the Green contract being taken off of the books makes them look very good in this trade, and Javvy is a damn solid pitcher. I am just not ready to declare them the winner. This is a wait and see down the line deal to me.

[Bomber]

Bomber,

Both kids look like nice prospects. I checked some of the old stories in Arizona and one of the quotes on Navarro was that the Yankees rushed him up their system to make it appear he was ready when he really wasn't. And some felt that it hurt his confidence and forced him to regress a bit. As an Arizona fan, I would want much more of a sure thing for Johnson than either of those guys. Still, they look like they could each amount to something in 2-3 years.

I'd expect Navarro to be in the bigs either later this year or next year, especially given the Dodgers lack of a catcher. Duncan is only 19, so 2-3 years is probably right. I think he'll be starting the year off in Double A. The only sure thing in the Yankees' system in Robinson Cano, who I want starting this year, but with the Womack sigining I'm betting he's gone by mid-season for veteran help.

[Bomber]

Until the deal pans out with the prospects, you can't say the Dodgers won.

How many stud prospects have been dealt that have turned out to be nothing.

To call any prospect a sure thing is unreasonable.

Obviously, but to gain two high quality prospects and a very good 28 year old pitcher for a pretty good pitcher in Penny, an overpaid declining outfielder in Greene, and a setup man is a pretty good deal. Plus with the money saved they can fill some of their holes.

[Bomber]

ESPN's Jayson Stark believes the three-team Randy Johnson may not get done because it was contingent on the Dodgers being able to re-sign Adrian Beltre.

The AP and TSN are confirming that the three-team Randy Johnson trade is about to become complete.

[Arles]

Out here in Arizona, there seems to be two snags. One is that Arizona is not getting enough money to offset Green's huge contract (one source said he's making $16 mil next season :eek: ). The other problem is that Green isn't too hot about waiving his no trade clause to leave Southern California.

All in all, sounds like this thing is dead in the water and doesn't seem likely at this point.

[Arles]

dola. Just read that Green is indeed making $16 million. If that's the case, this is a horrible deal for the DBacks unless they get a boatload of cash as well. Why trade a $16 mil potential Cy Young pitcher for a $16 mil 1B who hits .270 and 28HR and a pitcher with a bum arm. I just cannot see this deal going through as it stands from a DBack standpoint unless Penny's arm is 100% and the Yanks send a bunch of cash to Phoenix.

In fact, I would not be surprised if Penny ends up failing a physical and blowing the entire deal.

[ISiddiqui]

The OTHER snag is that Green has a no-trade clause as well and apparently he likes Southern California. It's looking less and less likely.

[Arles]

An update on all this mess from Phoenix. I could still see the deal failing, but there are few things reported out here in Arizona that make it seem more likely now than it was last night:

1. It was reported that Johnson wasn't sure he wanted to leave Arizona and might be having second thoughts. This appears to be a smokescreen by Johnson. He is trying to hold out on waiving his no-trade unless the Yankees give him a 2-year extension at $16 million each season. But, this has nothing to do with Johnson wanted to stay in AZ.

2. It appears Penny's arm is fine. He didn't have any trouble with his shoulder, rotator cuff or elbow as some had feared. He simply had an issue with a nerve in his bicep that seems to be clearing up just fine. It was reported here that he would easily pass his physical and be at 100% by spring training.

3. The DBacks just cancelled a visit by Jeremy Burnitz. It is thought the reason for the cancellation is that this deal is imminant and that Green will fill the RF spot Burnitz would be here to potentially fill.

4. The Dodgers do not plan on offering Green an extension which means he would probably have to leave LA after this season anyway (his contract ends). Therefore, a local Phoenix guy thinks that Green's hesitancy to waive his no-trade may also be a ploy to try and get an extension in AZ. But, even if the DBacks don't bite on this, he thinks Green will still eventually waive his no-trade.

So, now, the only real issues are money-related. Will Johnson get his 2-year $32 mil extension from the Yanks that he wants or will he hold out until they agree? Will Green agree to come to Arizona without an extension? Will Arizona and/or LA get enough cash from the Yankees to make this deal fiscally possible?

Supposedly, if the answer to each of the above three questions is yes, the deal is done.