OT: Job Hunting--Where Did I Go Wrong?

[terpkristin]

As some (most?) of you may know, I recently finished up my MS in Aerospace Engineering and have been looking for a job for the interim time between now and when I'd go to medical school (August 06ish). My thesis was on robotic grasp requirements for servicing Hubble Space Telescope.

So that's the background. My personal interests are more in biomechanics and human/robot cooperation, but I've got a pretty diverse background. I interviewed on Tuesday for a company that does aerospace stuff, including working on designing the robotic tools for repairing Hubble and working on the tools that astronauts use in space. It would seem, I was pretty well qualified for the position.

I got a letter yesterday that, regretfully, they found somebody better qualified for the position. Now my question is, where the hell did I go wrong? It struck me as I was interviewing that they liked what I had to say, and 2 of the 3 people I talked with even called my experience "impressive."

I gather I either asked for too much money (I asked for what I'd get in a similar position in the government based on my education), that I was overqualified (they seem to hire a lot of people fresh with their BS, not MS), or that I pissed somebody off (at one point the current plans for repairing Hubble came up and I mentioned that I didn't agree with the exact approach that was being taken by NASA/GSFC, but that my approach would be similar).

Any ideas what I did to not get this job I thought I was a lock for? My parents are starting to drive me nuts, reminding me that I need a job, and I don't want to make the same mistake again.

A seriously frustrated tk

[Eaglesfan27]

Hard to say for sure without more information, but with them seeming to hire a lot of people fresh with their BS, it would seem that they want to save money (by hiring less experienced/qualified people.) Therefore, my guess would be that you asked for more money than they were willing to pay. Sorry to hear that you didn't get this job and, I hope that you get something good soon.

P.S. If you have any questions about the application to medical school process, don't hesitate to ask. One of my jobs is interviewing candidates for LSU's medical school. (I used to do this for Tulane when I was a resident there as well.)

[temley06]

Maybe they didn't give it to you because you'd be leaving fairly soon. Honestly, I would enjoy you free time as much as possible before you start medical school. Med. school plus residency is a minimum of 7 years of 80+ hr/week work. I took 2 years off after undergrad, it was the best thing I ever did. If you have any questions about the process, I'd be glad to help.

[terpkristin]

They didn't know I'd be leaving.
I figured since I'd be working there for over a year I didn't really have to tell them.

~tk

[Anthony]

might be the overqualified thing. don't fret about "pissing" someone off - by being critical you showed you have quality analytical skills and that you were honest. perhaps they feared the salary you would be commanding. don't ever give them a range or figure. always say you're open to entertain any fair and reasonable offer. first comes getting the offer - then you negotiate.

always remember - people can be taught. so if i'm hiring and my choices are someone who's above and beyond what the job is requiring and will clearly command top dollar or some guy fresh out of college who gives an impressive interview and shows he has the capacity to learn the job and doesn't have the ability to ask for a huge salary because of his inexperience - i'm going for the guy who isn't overqualified.

but anyway don't tip your hand as to what salary you're looking for. companies want the best gyu for the job but they also want to keep costs as down as possible. always be as vague as possible when it comes to your salary requirements. it will always work against you unless you give them an amount that is below their range.

and keep in mind you're not going to get every job you interview for.

[JonInMiddleGA]

HA covered my input on the salary issue.

Another possibility, very real IMO, that you didn't mention is often the simplest explanation of all -- The fix was in, whether the people who were interviewing you knew it at the time or not. Anything from a poor relation to a frat buddy to a favor owed to somebody somewhere, there's a chance that the eventual hire was decided long before you ever stepped through their door.

Another possibility to consider, especially if you got any sort of warm fuzzy feeling from one of the interviewers -- ask for a post-hiring interview opportunity. In other words, you aren't working them for a job, you'd just like 15 minutes of their time to see if you can get a better understanding of why you didn't get this one. Play the angle along the lines of "I'm just out of school & any help you could give me that would make me a better candidate next time would be very appreciated" . You won't always get a company to agree to your request, but you might be surprised how many will.

Heck, I'm generally considered fairly much a bastard as an employer/supervisor, but I don't believe I've ever turned down a request like that in nearly 20 years.

[Anthony]

i agree w/ Jon - do try and find out what it was that made them pass you over (if you really wanted that job). criticism like that is priceless. you'll learn what you need to focus on in your future interviews and what to downplay (like the fact that your qualifications may result in them having to pony up big $$$). when you get feedback you start to learn what image you should be presenting to interviewers.

[Anthony]

also, last bit of info/advice - degree's are great, but actual experience in the field is more valuable. you might just have to get paid less than industry standards if it means you'll get the job you really want for a great company. the money will come once you've established yourself as a solid performer. if you agree with this advice i would try to mention that in the interview - when they as what salary you want you could mention that you're willing to start at the bottom, that you just want the opportunity to join the team in such a great company, and that you have every faith that once you've established yourself as a contributor to the company's success that you'll be compensated accordingly.

just get the job offer bro, then worry about what it pays. put yourself in the position where YOU turn the offer down, and not vice versa.

[terpkristin]

Well, thanks everybody for the advice.
I guess I'll chalk it up to asking for a certain salary, but I'll see if I can get a "post-interview" interview. In the grand scheme, it's really not a job I wanted, but as I said, I thought (particularly with my thesis being directly related to their work and my experience being directly related to their work) I was a lock.

Alas.
Thanks..

~tk (by the by, I'm a female)

[JonInMiddleGA]

(by the by, I'm a female)

I know that was for the benefit of HA's "bro", but since you brought it up ...

Any significant chance that worked against you on this job? This is definitely not my field, so I'm not sure what the gender playing field is like, more just curious than anything.

[cthomer5000]

Yeah, definitely consider that the fix might have been in. I've seen so much shady hiring at my current and former jobs that it's disgusting.

Almost every time multiple better candidates are turned away in favor of someone who had the inside track.

[terpkristin]

It's possible that it worked against me.
I mean...there were a LOT of men wandering around the halls, the only females I saw were in the HR department and doing the clerical side of things. But it's certainly true, there aren't too many females in aerospace engineering. On some levels, it really is a "good old boys" network.

~tk

[Ryan S]

The biggest problem with speculation like this is that we really don't have a clue what happened unless we know something about the successful candidate.

I would not worry too much unless the rejections become a trend.

[clintl]

The other possibility is that they really liked you, but liked someone else even better for the specific opening.

Here's a link that might help you look:

http://www.jobsmart.org/hidden/index.cfm

There's a method buried under one of the links on this page called the "Call-Write-Call" method that I haven't tried, but I saw a presentation about, and it sounds logical to me that it could help you get to know people who can help you get a job.

[vex]

They didn't want to give you health insurance:D

[terpkristin]

I was waiting for somebody to come up with that, vex ;)

Actually I'm kind of desperate for a job right now because of the need for insurance. I'd go work at a Starbucks if I could spend any amount of time on my feet...but then, that's what the insurance is for

~tk

[Airhog]

TK: its all about the T&A, T&A.....

[Dutch]

Degree's are great. I don't have mine and it showed when I went job hunting in 2000. The IT managers liked my experience and the HR guys liked my lack of a degree. (read: I can do the job and get paid nothing for it.)

So I was the one declining them instead of the other way around in quite a few instances. Very depressing at the time but you just keep your head up and move forward with what you got. :)

[PilotMan]

My guess is that it was office politics and you just didn't know the right people. Often in specialized areas like that its really about who you know. Tough to really say, except not to really ponder on it for too long. Sounds like a great field, and from what I know it is very competetive.

[Franklinnoble]

TK...

It's only one job interview.

You're going to get shot down a lot more than you're going to get hired. I've had the "dream job" fall through the cracks on many, many occassions.

Just recently, I applied for a university job. I would have been awesome at it. I had all the qualifications. I nuked the technical exam they gave me. I loved the environment. I got along with all my would-have-been co-workers.

I didn't get the job. Because they decided to promote an internal candidate instead. It didn't really bother me - I would appreciate having a growth opportunity like that.

I ended up doing contract work for Intel for a while, then landed a permanent job at a healthcare company. Making a lot more than I would have at the University.

So, don't sweat it. You'll find something, but be prepared to work a little outside your "ideal" parameters.

[Desnudo]

I don't know exactly where you went wrong, but best of luck in your search. I do think that sober Hell Atlantic and JMG are probably correct though.

[damnMikeBrown]

A dozen job interviews before I got my second interview...finance major (very desirable) from a great school....tons of great companies coming here...and twelve interviews before I got my 2nd interview & job offer.

Keep at it. One is just practice.