Pass Coverage in FOF2004

[cthomer5000]

I'm curious as to how everyone handles their coverage in FOF2004. Does anyone play exclusively one type of coverage? If so, how has it worked out for you? Have you seen any specific results that you believe are a result of it?

[cthomer5000]

For example, I seem to have some anecdotal evidence that bump-and-run coverage results in less interceptions by your defensive backs. I have a number of careers where I've tried full-time bump-and-run coverage, and my INT totals always seem pretty low relative to the rest of the league, even when my pass defense is excellent.

[QuikSand]

My usual default is to play loose man covergae first and foremost... but generally, I pick the personnel first, and the coverage builds around them. Definitely if I land a top-tier corner who's going to be around a while, his skills will determine my overall scheme, and I'll look for other guys who fit that.

[QuikSand]

The odd thing about bump coverage is that it seems to be the most nearly-developed among the three coverage with young players. A nice rookie DB with potential ratings of 80 in both man and bump might have a current rating of about 10 in man, but it might be 40 or 50 in bump. I don't have much to support this, but that seems like it's the best way to go for early success if you're playing something like an empty cupboard career or are otherwise counting a lot on very young players.

As for interceptions -- I don't have any feel for that specifically.

[Maple Leafs]

I tend to try to get specific types of players in the secondary, but I'm not a gamesplan type of guy and I let the CPU handle it. My only change is to set my #1 CB to cover the #1 WR, rather than going with the right/left that the CPU always wants to recommend.

[cthomer5000]

The odd thing about bump coverage is that it seems to be the most nearly-developed among the three coverage with young players. A nice rookie DB with potential ratings of 80 in both man and bump might have a current rating of about 10 in man, but it might be 40 or 50 in bump. I don't have much to support this, but that seems like it's the best way to go for early success if you're playing something like an empty cupboard career or are otherwise counting a lot on very young players.

As for interceptions -- I don't have any feel for that specifically.
I agree, bump-and-run is curiously well-devloped among rookies. I wonder if that was a specific decision made when creating the game.

I opened up a few careers and took a look, and I think i'm wrong about my INT thoughts. I probably just happened to notice 1-2 years where my INT totals where low. But most seasons we seemed to be somewhere in the middle, or maybe in the second tier. Of course we never led the league (or were real close either), so maybe coverage is a slight factor, but probably not as dramatic as I was originally thinking.

[cthomer5000]

I tend to try to get specific types of players in the secondary, but I'm not a gamesplan type of guy and I let the CPU handle it. My only change is to set my #1 CB to cover the #1 WR, rather than going with the right/left that the CPU always wants to recommend.
Well, my problem is the fact that the game always seems to favor man-to-man, while also generally spreading things around a bit. It doesn't seem to take enough consideration of your personnel when creating the coverage scheme.

[jbmagic]

i dont like using recommend on gameplans


on defense it seems like if you hit recommend, it mixes the defense types up , man to man, bump and run and zone. and it doesnt really go by what your players are better at..

[KWhit]

Great timing.

I was thinking about starting a thread on this subject myself. I have never felt really comfortable with my pass coverages in FOF. I have just started experimenting. I am simming some seasons with a "balanced" scheme (with all coverages nearly equally rated) and with more specialized approaches (with around 85% in a particular coverage).

I don't have a ton of results yet, but anecdotally, I'm not seeing much difference in my results.

Here are my understandings/assumptions about the coverages in real life. Would you guys agree with this?

Loose Man to Man - Safer than the bump and run. Quick pass palys with a short drop are probably most effective against this coverage.
Bump and Run - High risk / reward. Should result in many incompletions due to tight coverage, but you may get burned for a big play.
2 Deep Zone - Effective agianst teams that run short ball-control pass plays (west-coast offense). The long ball can be effective aginst this.
3 Deep Zone - Short passes are likely to find holes in the zone, but not as much as the 4 deep zone.
4 Deep Zone - Playing it safe. Easy to complete the short pass, but probably won't give up a big play.


Have you guys found that this holds in FOF too?

[jbmagic]

you guys know that the cover 2 (2 deep) the cb's play man to man and safety are the ones in the zone..

[Celeval]

you guys know that the cover 2 (2 deep) the cb's play man to man and safety are the ones in the zone..
If the 2-Deep Zone is a Cover-2. They aren't necessarily the same thing, and we don't know which it is in FOF.

[jbmagic]

If the 2-Deep Zone is a Cover-2. They aren't necessarily the same thing, and we don't know which it is in FOF.


ok thanks

hopefully Jim can tell us how it use in FOF

i think that important to know how 2 deep zone is? is the cb playing man to man or are in the zone like the safties are..

it important because if your CB not good on man to man, but great on the zone than we need to know for 2 deep zone if cb plays man to man or zone for us to use it?

[cthomer5000]

Great timing.

I was thinking about starting a thread on this subject myself. I have never felt really comfortable with my pass coverages in FOF. I have just started experimenting. I am simming some seasons with a "balanced" scheme (with all coverages nearly equally rated) and with more specialized approaches (with around 85% in a particular coverage).

I don't have a ton of results yet, but anecdotally, I'm not seeing much difference in my results.

Here are my understandings/assumptions about the coverages in real life. Would you guys agree with this?

Loose Man to Man - Safer than the bump and run. Quick pass palys with a short drop are probably most effective against this coverage.
Bump and Run - High risk / reward. Should result in many incompletions due to tight coverage, but you may get burned for a big play.
2 Deep Zone - Effective agianst teams that run short ball-control pass plays (west-coast offense). The long ball can be effective aginst this.
3 Deep Zone - Short passes are likely to find holes in the zone, but not as much as the 4 deep zone.
4 Deep Zone - Playing it safe. Easy to complete the short pass, but probably won't give up a big play.


Have you guys found that this holds in FOF too?
I haven't really observed enough to see everything works as expected, but I do agree with your thoughts on the types of coverage. I think bump-and-run may give you the best chance to just shut someone down completely... but it probably also increases the odds of a 60 yard touchdown pass.

[jbmagic]

bump and run is good , but you need to put pressure on the Qb...if Qb has no pressure than bump and run can kill you for long passes

[MIJB#19]

Honestly, I miss the "whatever my players are best at" option.
But then, when I let the AI handle it, my defense shows up much better, compared to when I manipulate it to suit my players.

[Darkiller]

I tend to play a man-to-man coverage scheme built around our top cornerback whom we count on to shut down the opposing receivers.

[Grid Iron]

you guys know that the cover 2 (2 deep) the cb's play man to man and safety are the ones in the zone..

This is a common misperception here at FOFC.

Cover 2 is a zone defense, and there is no man coverage. In the Cover 2, the CBs play a little bump and then go into a shallow zone. You can read more about it here (http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1437187.html).

This statement summarizes the duties of the CBs: "The corners are responsible for their outside fifths, which is a shallow area, but they must sink with the receiver until another receiver threatens their zone."

A 2-Deep coverage simply means that the safeties immediately drop into a deep zone. The corners might play man, bump, or zone.

[jbmagic]

Grid Iron

for FOF

if i choose 2 deep....do my CB have to have good ratings on man to man and bump and run too beside just zone?

because like you said "The corners might play man, bump, or zone."


for 3 deep zone and 4 deep zone, does CBs play zone only?

[Grid Iron]

Grid Iron

for FOF

if i choose 2 deep....do my CB have to have good ratings on man to man and bump and run too beside just zone?

because like you said "The corners might play man, bump, or zone."


for 3 deep zone and 4 deep zone, does CBs play zone only?

I'm not exactly sure how Jim has implemented these coverages in FOF2K4, but my guess would be that if you play a 2-deep zone, you should have safeties that are good at zone coverage and CBs that are good at man or bump coverage.

If you run a Cover-2, you'd want safeties tha are good at zone and CBs that are good at zone and bump coverage.

The "deep" coverages, at least as far as real life goes as opposed to FOF2K4, just means how many players drop back into a deep zone. For 3-deep zone, the free safety and both CBs drop into a deep zone, while the strong safety could play man, bump or zone. In a 4-deep zone, both of the safeties and corners drop back deep, putting the pressure on the LBs to cover the middle of the field. You can see a diagram of 3-deep coverage here (http://espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1430750.html).

[jbmagic]

thanks

not knowing how these coverage 2 deep, 3 deep, 4 deep are implemented in FOF, can be very frustrating.

i was thinking for those coverage your players CBs, SS, FS had to have great zone rating only to succeed in it..

but now if there also playing bump and run, man to man in these zone coverage too then that a problem..

a lot of people that play FOF thinks its pure zone only and only zone rating matters in these coverage for 2 deep, 3 deep, 4 deep zone


i hope we get a confirmation from JIm

thanks

[sovereignstar]

The zone defenses indicate that pass defenders are responsible for certain areas of the field rather than covering a specific receiver. A 2-deep zone means there are only two zones far downfield (generally covered by the safeties), with the rest of the zones starting at the line of scrimmage. A 4-deep zone means there are four zones downfield.

That is from the help file.

This would lead me to believe that only your safeties would be playing zone in a 2-deep zone coverage.

[DaddyTorgo]

This would lead me to believe that only your safeties would be playing zone in a 2-deep zone coverage. I think you're wrong Sov. Look at the wording. "only two zones far downfield (generally covered by the safeties), with the rest of the zones starting at the line of scrimmage."

tells me that everyone is in a zone, including the CB's.

[Dutch]

I have had very little luck interpreting how defenses differ and tend to go with my player's strengths....or let the AI handle it all together.

[cthomer5000]

I think you're wrong Sov. Look at the wording. "only two zones far downfield (generally covered by the safeties), with the rest of the zones starting at the line of scrimmage."

tells me that everyone is in a zone, including the CB's.
I agree with your interpretation.

I think common sense says that everyone is in zone. Otherwise there would be no way possible to have your CB play zone coverage.

[jbmagic]

I think you're wrong Sov. Look at the wording. "only two zones far downfield (generally covered by the safeties), with the rest of the zones starting at the line of scrimmage."

tells me that everyone is in a zone, including the CB's.


for 2 deep, 3 deep and 4 deep zone defense...do we look for CBs, FS, SS players that good on Zone rating?

man to man defense we look for SS, FS, Cbs that has good for man to man rating?

Bump and run we look for SS, FS, CBs that has good bump and run rating ?

[sovereignstar]

I think you're wrong Sov. Look at the wording. "only two zones far downfield (generally covered by the safeties), with the rest of the zones starting at the line of scrimmage."

tells me that everyone is in a zone, including the CB's.

Okay, that makes sense.

[DaddyTorgo]

seems like it jb, yeah

[jbmagic]

seems like it jb, yeah


thanks

i guess LBs play zone too in 2 deep , 3 deep , 4 deep zone beside FS, SS, and CBs..so best to look for players with good rating on zone for those position if you plan to play the zone alot

[jbmagic]

has anyone else found it slightly odd that all the zone coverages allow you to double-team a WR?

[Grid Iron]

has anyone else found it slightly odd that all the zone coverages allow you to double-team a WR?

Actually, that's not odd.

In real life, when you play zone and double-team a WR, generally one of your safeties is assigned to cover the receiver in man coverage. Consequently, you won't have two safeties deep if you play a deep zone coverage.