Redshirting?

[AlexB]

Seeing as I like FOF so much, thought I'd get TCY as well, despite not knowing anything about college football. Half simmed through a couple of seasons, read the stickies, and think I've got a general handle on most of the game (unsure how correct this might be at this stage though!)

But one thing I'm clueless on is the redshirt thing: I think I've understood that it means the guy doesn't play at all that season, but what are the reasons for & effects of redshirting?

And from the fact that it's highlighted on the font colour that a guy has redshirted, am I right in assuming that someone can only redshirt for 1 year? What would happen if he didn't play at all for two years?

Any help would be much appreciated, cause at the minute I'm like a blind man in a dark room looking for a lightswitch that isn't there...

[Huckleberry]

College athletes have 5 years to complete 4 seasons of play. All redshirting means is that the player has already gone one year without playing.

Going another year without playing at all wouldn't affect the number of seasons a player can play in at all.

[Ben E Lou]

but what are the reasons for & effects of redshirting?The primary reason is to give the guy another year to develop. I've seen guys improve as much as 30 points in "current value" during their red-shirt season. If a guy is rated 19/100 as a true freshman, that means that he could possibly end up rated 49/100 (or maybe better) by the time he actually starts playing.

[AlexB]

Cheers for the help: so by redshirting he concentrates on development rather than playing right?

So it's a good idea to give redshirted players extra coaching time blocks?

[Passacaglia]

I wouldn't say that. In TCY (as well as FOF) players develop with playing time. When you redshirt a player, it's most likely that he won't develop as well as someone who's played all year. Sure, some players go up 30 points in their redshirt year, but I've also seen players who lose points during it.

The idea is that players develop every year, and that if you redshirt a player, by the time he gets to his 5th year, he's had an extra year te develop over a 4th year senior. Lately, since I pay no attention to academics, I never redshirt anyone, and just assume that if I do, the guy will probably end up failing out one year, and he'll take a year off then.

[Ben E Lou]

Yes, they develop with playing time, but I'm getting pretty big gains with red-shirting, too. My current class that just redshirted had ratings change as follows:

QB Glen Harrison: 16/42-->35/76 +19
RB Jack Thaphituck: 24/54-->34/75 +10
FB Alan Small: 35/72-->28/44 -7
TE Kent Cornejo: 14/24-->18/39 +4
WR Daryl Baqgwell: 27/87->36/59 +9
C Dennis Taylor: 11/84-->23/63 +12
G Kris Dalan: 7/63-->8/52 +1
T Preston Sutter: 1/67-->19/61 +18
K Donnie Foreman: 8/79-->59/98 +51
DE Dennis Terrell: 8/35-->21/57 +13
DT Bo Rodriguez: 7/51-->19/54 +12
ILB Andy Copeland: 21/83-->40/63 +19
OLB Vince Heck: 36/100-->30/73 -6
CB Craig Kirk: 27/65-->54/54 +27
S Darrell Alcott: 15/75-->30/54 +15

Of 15 guys red-shirted, only two lost current value (and both lost lots of future potential, most likely because they are busts in general, not because of red-shirting), and 10 gained 10 points or more. Also, I'd like to stress that NONE of the guys I red-shirted would have gotten very much playing time as true fresmen, anyway, so they wouldn't have gotten the advantage of playing time to help them develop. I red-shirt every single freshman when I can, with only three exceptions:

1. I have to have him play in order to avoid getting a crappy-academics walk-on.
2. He would be a starter as a true freshman.
3. If his aspiration and intelligence suck, and he'll drag down our academic ratings for five years, rather than just four. :p

[MizzouRah]

Also, if you have say a good starting QB, why have the Fresman sit the bench and waste a year of eligibility?


Todd

[WSUCougar]

Another subtle point to add into the redshirting mix is academics. You might red-shirt a great student, but perhaps not red-shirt a crappy student.

[Ragone]

College athletes have 5 years to complete 4 seasons of play. All redshirting means is that the player has already gone one year without playing.

Going another year without playing at all wouldn't affect the number of seasons a player can play in at all.

Unless your name is Jason white.. then you get 14 years to complete 4

:)

kidding aside.. I usually use redshirting early in tcy to bolster academics

[Ben E Lou]

I guess for comparison's sake, it would be good to look at a class of players who all redshirted one year, then had a chance to play. All of these guys were redshirted in 2005, then played (or didn't play) various amounts of time in 2006.

<table> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl24" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 105pt;" align="center" height="17" width="140">NAME</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 48pt;" x:num="" align="center" width="64">2005</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 48pt;" x:num="" align="center" width="64">2006</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 48pt;" x:num="" align="center" width="64">2007</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 96pt;" align="center" width="128">PLAYING TIME</td> <td class="xl24" style="width: 117pt;" align="center" width="156">COMMENTS</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">QB Kendall Durham</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">12/62</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">33/62</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">46/72</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">none</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">RS better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">RB Trent Lewis</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">20/23</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">24/24</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">34/54</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">105 plays</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">PT better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">TE Jonathan Armstrong</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">24/77</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">27/77</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">37/55</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">13 starts, 604 plays</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">PT better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">WR Brady Woods</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">27/77</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">48/77</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">52/91</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">113 plays</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">RS better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">C Mo Felmming</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">12/20</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">12/20</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">13/26</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">0 plays</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">wash</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">G Tyrell Garner</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">8/47</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">12/47</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">16/68</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">0 plays</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">wash</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">T Robbie Kippen</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">6/68</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">10/67</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">27/50</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">4 starts, 426 plays</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">PT better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">T Geoff Swisher</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">4/30</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">7/31</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">17/63</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">65 plays</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">PT better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">P Darrell Hutchins</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">11/11</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">15/55</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">9/27</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">none</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">RS better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">DE Dana Gillespie</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">22/88</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">43/88</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">60/71</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">13 starts, 651 plays</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">RS better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">DT Brett Williford</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">7/81</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">26/81</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">46/64</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">4 starts, 543 plays</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">wash</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">OLB Corwin Mosley</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">20/58</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">29/58</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">32/84</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">138 plays</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">RS better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">CB Dominic Caldwell</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">22/58</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">49/58</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">46/70</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">465 plays</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">RS better</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;" height="17"> <td class="xl25" style="height: 12.75pt;" align="center" height="17">S Kelvin Mayes</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">14/66</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">36/66</td> <td class="xl26" align="center">54/64</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">637 plays</td> <td class="xl25" align="center">RS better</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
For the most part, the guys who progressed more in 2006 than in their redshirt season were guys who played a lot. Bottom line: if he isn't going to get significant playing time as a true freshman, then he definitely should be redshirted if possible. For me, the only exception to this is if the guy is a mediocre talent, with very poor academics. No point in keeping a guy like that around to drag down your GPA for five years.

[AlexB]

Ta for this guys: all very helpful. I don't want to ask any more on the micro management on redshirting as it's more fun and rewarding to find out yourself, but I really did need the info you gave me: at least I understand the concept now.

One more area I need clarification on - academic eligibility: cause I started at a crappy college (won;t say which in case it's somebody's old school!) I tried to get by on the bare minimum on study time to try and find a couple of breakouts...

A couple of players are suspended for a year for failing, and nobody blossomed unexpectedly, which has made me think maybe would have been better to switch the ratio with the poor/mediocre players but get higher GPA's to hopefully attract better players more interested in academics, but that's a by-the-way...

These guys that are academically inelegible already redshirted, so does that now mean that they are stuffed when the suspension is lifted as they now can't play their full 4 seasons: 5 years, 1 lost redshirting, 1 lost academically?

Or, as I assume they will be at college for an extra year to make up the failed year, is the suspension a kind of 'gap year' in their career and they'll still get the four years?

The reason I ask is that one of the players is pretty poor anyway, and if he is a dead man walking football-wise, I'll probably just release him.

From this I've realised pass and fail marks are different in the USA to UK! I think the two suspended guys are the only ones with an E in a class, so D- is OK but E is a fail? And is the GPA mainly an indicator to overall academic status of the school, or does it affect pass/fail?

I've just read the stickied roster management/player development thread, and realised that I missed reading this first time out and there's things I wasn;t even considering in the first season I've just run: so armed with the tips within that and hopefully your assistance one more time, I'll get a better handle on it next time!

[kingnebwsu]

An E will make a guy ineligible. Straight D-'s won't.

If a guy redshirts then gets academically ineligible, he loses that year. Sucks but what can ya do?

I would definitely go the academics route. It's the method I've used in my 60 TCY seasons and it's gone pretty well.

Time Management Overview kicks ass, definitely use it. Make your walk-ons have at least a 1400-1500 test score. That'll boost the GPA. I've been #1 in academics like 50 years in a row. Fun times :-)

G'luck!

[BYU 14]

Definitely take advantage of any walkon slots you have by getting guys with high GPA's. To make sure you understand how this works, whenever you don't have 16 scholarships to give, you can fill the remaining recruiting slots with walkons.

1-Find the position you want to recruit and sort by test scores or GPA.
2-Ask the recruit to come visit, but don't offer a Scholarship. As the recruiting period ends if these players have no other offers, they may elect to come to your school as a walkon. You generally won't get much in terms of playing contribution, but it will help boost your academics.

[Leonidas]

You have to be careful on redshirting too much. I have seen a lot of guys redshirt freshman year, sit on the bench sophomore year, then go pro. Happens far too much in TCY IMO, almost to the point of it being a bug.