Mac help needed

[oliegirl]

Radii and I are considering purchasing a new laptop for me to be used for the business I am trying to build. I create and print notecards, stationery, invitations, etc. We are leaning toward a mac because of the improved graphics capability. Their website has a ibook for $999, but we are wondering if we would need to upgrade the memory (comes with 256k) and the hard drive (comes with 30GB). To upgrade each is only $75, but we don't want to add anything to it we don't need to. Since we aren't sure if the business is going to be successful or not, we don't want to invest any money that isn't necessary.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71701/wo/nQ6IVuUHId7D3zHTeazTjMfo7OV/6.0.11.1.0.6.25.1.0.21.3.1.1.0?28,7

I also would appreciate input as to what programs would be best for this type of work and how much they cost. I have been working on a PC and have been simply cutting and pasting images and resizing them to make them fit/work...I have never worked on anything except a PC, so any information you have would be great!

[MacroGuru]

Anything to deal with graphics on a MAC, I would go for at least 1 GB of memory if possible. This will enable you to run almost all your Art application on the Mac, as for software.

Adobe has several suites that focus on Desktop publishing, they would probably be the best for that.

HD, definately more than 30GB

[Radii]

Anything to deal with graphics on a MAC, I would go for at least 1 GB of memory if possible. This will enable you to run almost all your Art application on the Mac, as for software.


Ugh, was afraid of that.

I also wonder about PC apps in general. right now we haven't gone out and picked up anything out of the ordinary. I wonder if something like an Adobe Illustrator or some other part of the Adobe suite on the PC is sufficient for this kind of thing(and cheaper)? We want nice looking results, but this isn't Dreamworks or anything.

Advice on PC art/imaging software at the same time would be appreciated as well!

[stevew]

If you go through the "education store", they dont require ID or anything, claim your kid is homeschooled. You can save like 10%-20%. I would go PowerBook if possible, its just much better designed than the IBook.

[stevew]

http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-5009/WebObjects/EducationIndividual.woa/71205/wo/MW3SPEAC0VPk2vI4h0e18qoZyZX/1.0.11.1.0.6.21.1.0.21.3.1.1.0?40,6


Same computer is 899, i believe you just need to have a kid in school or something.

[oliegirl]

Anything to deal with graphics on a MAC, I would go for at least 1 GB of memory if possible. This will enable you to run almost all your Art application on the Mac, as for software.

Adobe has several suites that focus on Desktop publishing, they would probably be the best for that.



Would the programs run on less memory? Or is that the minimum needed? I am willing to sacrifice a little speed to save some money at this point...

Checking out the adobe website, they have a ton of graphics program...looks like illustrator is what I would need, but it's $500...are there any other good imaging programs out there?

[MacroGuru]

Yeah it can run run with lower memory, mine was a suggestion for art applications.

As for art software, I have only worked with the Macromedia and Adobe suites a lot. Although I did manage to pick up Corel Draw when I contracted for them. It's fairly cheap. And I think is a lot better than the others...I forgot about them when I posted....

[Godzilla Blitz]

I do some high-end design work on a Mac G4 and I've only got a bit over 500K of RAM. If you do a lot of video or really need to push Photoshop, I would think you'd need more. Otherwise, I would think 500K is fine, especially if you're careful how many programs you keep open at one time. 256K sounds skimpy. OSX will hog up a good chunk of that, and you'd get some some performance issues. As for the 30GB of space, I would think it would be nice to have a bit more, but it would depend on how much other stuff you're going to use the Mac for, and to what degree you're going to be handling large photos. If you start downloading music from the net and playing games, that 30GB is going to fill fast. If you are only going to have a few graphic jobs going at one time, and can archive jobs as you finish them, I would think 30GB on a Mac is fine to start with. If you need more space in six months, you can always add a hard drive then.

As others have mentioned, you can get some great educational prices, especially with software. Adobe Creative Suite and Studio MX 2004 are two great software packages that are much much cheaper when you buy them with an educational discount. I usually get my stuff here:

Academic Superstore (http://www.academicsuperstore.com/?sourcecode=s10047&promocode=pc10743&AID=6341626&PID=1114205)

I noticed on their front page that Studio MX 2004 is selling for under $200. It includes Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks, and FreeHand. Adobe's Creative suite (Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, GoLive, Acrobat® 7.0 Professional) is $365. Great deals.

Personally, I like the Adobe stuff on the Mac, but that might just be because I'm used to it. The integration between the different programs is great, and PDF production is very efficient. If you need to send stuff to a printer, having Acrobat Professional to fine tune PDF files will be worth its weight in gold.

As for whether you can do similar work on the PC, I'm just not sure. Web design and video should be fine, and overall I think the graphics gap has narrowed between the two systems. I use a Mac because 95% of the design work I get is in a Mac format, all my design software is on my Mac, and I just feel more comfortable with design work on a Mac. OSX's font handling is really nice, and that is a godsend with design work.

Lastly, OSX Panther is a slick operating system, IMHO, and this is coming from someone who preferred XP to Jaguar (the previous version of OSX). They finally got things right with Panther.

If it were me, I'd get the Mac, add the memory, wait on the hard drive, and get Adobe CS educationally because Photoshop, Illustrator, and Acrobat Professional make for a great threesome for designing cards, tweaking photos, and creating PDFs.

[MacroGuru]

I do some high-end design work on a Mac G4 and I've only got a bit over 500K of RAM. If you do a lot of video or really need to push Photoshop, I would think you'd need more. Otherwise, I would think 500K is fine, especially if you're careful how many programs you keep open at one time. 256K sounds skimpy. OSX will hog up a good chunk of that, and you'd get some some performance issues. As for the 30GB of space, I would think it would be nice to have a bit more, but it would depend on how much other stuff you're going to use the Mac for, and to what degree you're going to be handling large photos. If you start downloading music from the net and playing games, that 30GB is going to fill fast. If you are only going to have a few graphic jobs going at one time, and can archive jobs as you finish them, I would think 30GB on a Mac is fine to start with. If you need more space in six months, you can always add a hard drive then.

As others have mentioned, you can get some great educational prices, especially with software. Adobe Creative Suite and Studio MX 2004 are two great software packages that are much much cheaper when you buy them with an educational discount. I usually get my stuff here:

Academic Superstore (http://www.academicsuperstore.com/?sourcecode=s10047&promocode=pc10743&AID=6341626&PID=1114205)

I noticed on their front page that Studio MX 2004 is selling for under $200. It includes Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks, and FreeHand. Adobe's Creative suite (Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, GoLive, Acrobat® 7.0 Professional) is $365. Great deals.

Personally, I like the Adobe stuff on the Mac, but that might just be because I'm used to it. The integration between the different programs is great, and PDF production is very efficient. If you need to send stuff to a printer, having Acrobat Professional to fine tune PDF files will be worth its weight in gold.

As for whether you can do similar work on the PC, I'm just not sure. Web design and video should be fine, and overall I think the graphics gap has narrowed between the two systems. I use a Mac because 95% of the design work I get is in a Mac format, all my design software is on my Mac, and I just feel more comfortable with design work on a Mac. OSX's font handling is really nice, and that is a godsend with design work.

Lastly, OSX Panther is a slick operating system, IMHO, and this is coming from someone who preferred XP to Jaguar (the previous version of OSX). They finally got things right with Panther.

If it were me, I'd get the Mac, add the memory, wait on the hard drive, and get Adobe CS educationally because Photoshop, Illustrator, and Acrobat Professional make for a great threesome for designing cards, tweaking photos, and creating PDFs.

I http://forums.clubsnap.org/images/cs/smilies/love.gif GB

[Glengoyne]

Is the Mac still much better for graphics than a PC? It seems to me that given the number of products I see for the PC, that the Mac really can't be that much more of a Graphical panacea than a nicely equipped PC. Certainly not when you compare price.

So is the notion that the Mac is THE computer for graphics a myth? If not...what are the differences?

[Radii]

Is the Mac still much better for graphics than a PC? It seems to me that given the number of products I see for the PC, that the Mac really can't be that much more of a Graphical panacea than a nicely equipped PC. Certainly not when you compare price.

So is the notion that the Mac is THE computer for graphics a myth? If not...what are the differences?


That was kinda where I was going with my question about the PC applications available and their quality.

[Glengoyne]

I was apparently ignoring you, because Oliegirl had already spoken I guess I figured what you had to say wasn't important enough to read.

[Draft Dodger]

a gig of memory is nice and all, but not necessary for what you are talking about. I do think 256 is on the light side. Just about any Apple reseller will be running a promo for free memory, although that'll be after a rebate. For example, MacConnection (*disclaimer* it's where I work, but I'm not trying to push in a particular direction) has an extra 512 free after rebates. Personally, I think mail in rebates are a total fucking gyp, and avoid them if possible, but, if you are willing to go through it, you'll have an iBook with 768. More than enough for your needs. Don't upgrade the HD, it's not worth it - you can always add storage later via an external drive.

But here's the thing - Macs do not have "enhanced graphics capability". It used to be that all the graphics software was on the Mac (and all the schools were using Macs), so all the graphic design shops were, by extension, Mac based. There no longer is a gap, but traditions die hard. Hardware-wise, Macs are not better designed to handle graphics, nor is their software generally any different than the PC (all the Adobe stuff, for example, exists on both Windows and Mac). You could just as easily buy a Windows notebook for a similar price and it will do all the same stuff.

Macs are great - I would say in general they are easier to use and learn on, much easier to differentiate hardware differences, and they are well-designed. They also come with some nice software (the iLife suite) that's great for a home user. A Mac is a great purchase, if you decide that's what you want...just don't feel you need to lean that way so that if will be better equipped to handle graphics; that, simply, is a myth.

[Radii]

I was apparently ignoring you, because Oliegirl had already spoken I guess I figured what you had to say wasn't important enough to read.

I was glad you repeated the question. I am used to being ignored in Oliegirl threads. Why do you think she starts the thread instead of me, even though it is technical stuff that I can often explain better? ;)

[Godzilla Blitz]

But here's the thing - Macs do not have "enhanced graphics capability". It used to be that all the graphics software was on the Mac (and all the schools were using Macs), so all the graphic design shops were, by extension, Mac based. There no longer is a gap, but traditions die hard. Hardware-wise, Macs are not better designed to handle graphics, nor is their software generally any different than the PC (all the Adobe stuff, for example, exists on both Windows and Mac). You could just as easily buy a Windows notebook for a similar price and it will do all the same stuff.
Interesting stuff. I've wondered lately about the differences between the two systems now, especially with Adobe heavily supporting the PC side of things. It was the mantra a few years ago that Macs were better than PCs for graphics, but I wondered how things have changed. For the life of me, I can't see how one system could be better than the other at this point in time.

The only thing I would think that might have a bearing on all this is one thing that Draft Dodger mentions: traditions die hard. Almost all of the professionally designed files I get from other design/advertising companies are done on a Mac, and when they're not, there are always nagging problems when we shift them to the Mac platform: bugs, font issues, display problems, printing errors, etc. Output to printers isn't really a problem anymore because we control output on our end with PDF files, but if you expect to work with professional design firms, I would argue that there are still advantages to having a Mac simply because it is a Mac-dominated industry, and to a certain degree, having a Mac sends a signal to others that you are a professional designer (for print purposes; this doesn't hold true anymore for web stuff). If none of that matters, PCs are so much cheaper on the hardware end that it would be hard to justify using a Mac if you feel comfortable with a PC. For a $1,000 you can get an awesome PC; the same amount gets you an entry level Mac.

One last thing to consider is the software itself. Photoshop has a steep learning curve and is almost too powerful for the casual user. Even Illustrator will take a few weeks to get comfortable with. Neither of these programs are easy to learn well, so expect to spend some time with them before you feel proficient.

And not to plug Draft Dodger's company, but I've always had great experiences when I order stuff from Mac/PC Connection. I've been ordering stuff from them for years, and they are my favorite Mac vendor. I think I've bought two Macs from them now, and their service has been solid. I can't say the same thing for Mac Warehouse, where I've had crappy service at times.

[Glengoyne]

...Why do you think she starts the thread instead of me, even though it is technical stuff that I can often explain better? ;)
Are you admitting to using your wife's sex appeal to milk information from the knowledge base here on the board. I mean it is true that most guys 'round here would push small children to the ground in order to satisfy a woman's curiosity over the internet. So I can't say I blame you.

Oh and as for ignoring you...well I figured the Olie was the kind of gal that once she has spoken, her husband's opinion becomes pretty much moot. Well I guess I figured that subconsciously, because I only came into the thread to potentially mock a Mac user.


A "Can you help me with my Mac" moment from my past.
Mac User: Hey I have a problem with my Macintosh, and I'm wondering if you can help me.
Me: I don't know much at all about Macs.
Mac User: Well you know computers, so here is the deal. I turn the computer on, and it waits a lot longer than normal, and then this little man appears. It looks like he is telling me something, but I can't really tell.
Me: That little man is telling you to buy a PC.

[Radii]

As others have mentioned, you can get some great educational prices, especially with software. Adobe Creative Suite and Studio MX 2004 are two great software packages that are much much cheaper when you buy them with an educational discount. I usually get my stuff here:


Are you/wife a teacher? How do you qualify for this? This site requires verification unlike the Mac sites referred to earlier, Adobe says K-12 students allowed but it isn't clear as to whether it's for home schooled only or not.

[oliegirl]

BUMP

radii and I purchased the Adobe Creative Suite off the Academic website Godzilla Blitz posted. It should be delivered Monday or Tuesday of this week...my question now is, how do I even begin to figure this software out? Does anyone know of some good books or online tutorials that will help me become a photoshop master?

[Suicane75]

Do you know how badly I wanna start a thread saying "Cheese Help Please"?
Do you? Do you?

[Draft Dodger]

BUMP

radii and I purchased the Adobe Creative Suite off the Academic website Godzilla Blitz posted. It should be delivered Monday or Tuesday of this week...my question now is, how do I even begin to figure this software out? Does anyone know of some good books or online tutorials that will help me become a photoshop master?

there are zillions of photoshop books out there - ranging from "dummy" level to high end. Honestly, this is just something you have to kind of browse around next time you're at your favorite bookstore...

[ageofquarrel]

BUMP

radii and I purchased the Adobe Creative Suite off the Academic website Godzilla Blitz posted. It should be delivered Monday or Tuesday of this week...my question now is, how do I even begin to figure this software out? Does anyone know of some good books or online tutorials that will help me become a photoshop master?

I think a book called Photoshop CS One on One is a good introduction to photoshop.

[Godzilla Blitz]

BUMP

radii and I purchased the Adobe Creative Suite off the Academic website Godzilla Blitz posted. It should be delivered Monday or Tuesday of this week...my question now is, how do I even begin to figure this software out? Does anyone know of some good books or online tutorials that will help me become a photoshop master?
Random thoughts...

Adobe used to pack some solid manuals with their software, but that is no longer the case. However, register the software with Adobe and you get access to their online tutorials. They're often excellent, and have difficulty ratings with them, so you can pick according to your level. I'd look around on the net for some tutorials as well. There is some good stuff out there. The tutorials that come with the program might be pretty good as well.

As for books, I've found the quality ranges greatly. They often suck. I usually search through Amazon.com's reviews until I find a handful that look pretty good, then if possible go check them out at a bookstore. It takes some time, but I've found that it's usually worth it to be confident you're getting a book that will work for you.

I haven't bought any books on Photoshop or Illustrator lately, but as I look over my bookshelf, the beginning level books for Photoshop and Illustrator that I have are from the "Teach Yourself..." series. I've found the quality changes greatly depending on the author, though, so your milage may vary.

Not sure whether you went with the Mac or not, but if you did, MacAddict is a cheap magazine subscription that takes a practical approach to using your computer. Their tutorials are often excellent. MacWorld can be good at times too. If you did get the Mac, the one book I would definitely recommend is: Mac OS X, The Missing Manual. Make sure you get the Panther version.

Lastly, Photoshop is a bear of a program and can be intimidating. I understand less than half of its features. The important thing with that program is to get it to do the things you want it to do, and screw around with the other features if/when you have free time. Likewise, I found Illustrator counter-intuitive at first, and got frustrated when I tried to fudge my way through the program. When I sat down for an afternoon and went through some basic tutorials on how to use the program, things got better.

Sorry I missed your earlier question as well. I teach a few Japanese classes to high school students in the mornings, so I qualify for an academic discount that way. Also, up until a couple of years ago, I was a grad student at the university.

Hope that helps! Good luck!

[Radii]

Not sure whether you went with the Mac or not, but if you did, MacAddict is a cheap magazine subscription that takes a practical approach to using your computer.

We got it for the PC.

Sorry I missed your earlier question as well. I teach a few Japanese classes to high school students in the mornings, so I qualify for an academic discount that way. Also, up until a couple of years ago, I was a grad student at the university.


Adobe is one of the companies that offer the discount to anyone who has a student in K-12.

Thanks for all the help/suggestions :)