McNabb feels race should be an issue. Do you agree?

[Fritz]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-sbny020105,0,5359261.story?coll=sfla-dolphins-front

McNabb: Race should be an issue



BY Neil Best
Newsday

February 1, 2005, 9:51 AM EST

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Seventeen years to the day, 11-year-old Donovan McNabb sat at home and watched in wonder as Doug Williams led the Redskins to a rout of the Broncos in Super Bowl XXII, becoming the first black quarterback to win an NFL championship.

Now McNabb sat in a convention center conference room yesterday facing dozens of cameramen and reporters, talking about how much has changed since then, and how little. For one thing, Williams still is the only black quarterback to win it all, something the Eagles quarterback hopes to do Sunday.

One thing that has changed, though, is the focus on race, or lack thereof.

McNabb said he found it interesting how little talk there has been about him being only the third black quarterback in a Super Bowl (Steve McNair was the second), about the two black quarterbacks in the NFC title game (Michael Vick was the other) and about the three black Pro Bowlers from the NFC (him, Vick and Daunte Culpepper).

Is it a sign of progress that the media makes less note of race than it used to? Or are journalists reluctant to bring up the subject for fear of saying or writing the wrong thing? Or is it downplayed because some still are not fully comfortable with successful black quarterbacks?

McNabb hinted at the latter two explanations, although in the scrum of questioners, it was impossible to ask enough follow-ups to get at what he really meant before his session ended. At one point he said of the rise of black quarterbacks, "People don't accept it," but it was not clear what people he referred to.

What was clear was that McNabb is intent on celebrating the fact that he is here, and the fact that with only a half-dozen black starters in the league, they continue to make a huge impact. He said he wants to be a part of that history.

"I think we've had a sign of progress and people don't want to notice it," he said. "It's just something I think we need to reach out to the world and let people know ... I don't get caught up in it, but for younger people who are watching, who are wearing our jerseys, that's something you need to sit down and talk to those kids about."

Of Williams, he said, "That was kind of an open door for African-American kids to have dreams and aspirations of playing in the NFL, not only the NFL but the Super Bowl ... It can happen to you."

McNabb long has been sensitive to how he is perceived, notably being labeled a "running quarterback" and the implication that he gets by on his athleticism. (Coach Andy Reid said McNabb's most important trait is his intelligence.)

"I think David Carr had more rushing yards than I did, so maybe next year, you can say he is a running quarterback," McNabb said. (The Texans' Carr, who is white, ran for 299 yards, McNabb for 220.)

It was only last season that radio commentator Rush Limbaugh accused the media of promoting and overrating McNabb because he is black. Now McNabb is wondering why the news media seems to have dropped the subject altogether.

Williams never had to worry about a shortage of race-oriented questions. He was asked a steady stream, but never the most infamous question in Super Bowl lore: "How long have you been a black quarterback?"

In fact, Butch John, then a Jackson, Miss., sportswriter who once had covered Grambling, Williams' alma mater, grew frustrated with the endless questions about race and said, "Doug, it's obvious you've been a black quarterback all your life. When did it start to matter?"

Williams said it started to matter when he got to the NFL.

McNabb's message is that after all these years, it still matters, if only because it might matter to the next 11-year-old watching Sunday.

"[Williams] did a lot for us to give us an opportunity, and the door was opened," said McNabb, who also credited McNair, whose Titans lost in 2000. "It gives the kids now at the collegiate level, high school, Pop Warner, an opportunity to dream and have aspirations of playing on this level and winning a Super Bowl."

[VPI97]

I don't care if McNabb is black, white, red or purple. He's still a butt nugget.

[sabotai]

"I think David Carr had more rushing yards than I did, so maybe next year, you can say he is a running quarterback," McNabb said. (The Texans' Carr, who is white, ran for 299 yards, McNabb for 220.)


Put T.O. on Houston and see how much this changes....

EDIT: And I'm sick of hearing about race. If they mention it, it's "you're being racist by mentioning it." If they don't mention it, it's "You don't want to notice our success." Give it a rest already!

[Wolfpack]

I don't care if McNabb is black, white, red or purple. He's still a butt nugget.

That the Hokie in you coming out?

[VPI97]

That the Hokie in you coming out? I'll never forgive McNabb for beating us in '98.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'll never forgive McNabb for beating us in '98.
Glad to hear that is the reason for the comment :)

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I'll never forgive McNabb for beating us in '98.

I'm with you on this.

(...and I thought Bill Clinton was the 1st black QB to win it all.)

[rkmsuf]

HAHAHAHAHA

Freddie Mitchell didn't get a podium for media day. Had to sit in the stands where he belongs.

[Wolfpack]

I'll never forgive McNabb for beating us in '98.

Heh, considering we pretty much destroyed his Heisman campaign that year, that's a little funny and brings up a wistfulness about that Wolfpack team. They were the second team to beat FSU in conference and took apart Syracuse when they visited Raleigh, but in between they lost to Baylor, actually trailing 30-0 at halftime before losing 33-30, if I remember right. One of those things that got Mike O'Cain fired a year later. Could play with the big boys, but also played with the little ones instead of manhandling them. Never beating UNC his entire tenure didn't help, either.

[gstelmack]

It was only last season that radio commentator Rush Limbaugh accused the media of promoting and overrating McNabb because he is black. Now McNabb is wondering why the news media seems to have dropped the subject altogether.
Sheesh. Doesn't the first sentence answer the second?

[ISiddiqui]

Yep, you'd think McNabb would put two and two together. Limbaugh's comments and the reaction to them is the reason for this overreaction on the other side (ie, not mentioning it at all).

[SackAttack]

It was only last season that radio commentator Rush Limbaugh accused the media of promoting and overrating McNabb because he is black. Now McNabb is wondering why the news media seems to have dropped the subject altogether.

Seems to me there's one of two ways you can go here. Either the media should promote black quarterbacks because there historically haven't been very many of them, in which case Rush's comment should not have garnered the acrimony that it did (or, at least, the discussion should have been very different than it was), or else promoting a quarterback on the basis of his skin color is de facto propagation of the previous color line. "They can't do this, so it makes it all the more astonishing when one breaks the mold."

In the case of the former, Limbaugh should not have been vilified as he did - the discussion should properly have been whether or not the media is right to promote athletes that way, not whether or not Limbaugh was correct to assert that McNabb's media visibility is tied to the color of his skin.

In the case of the latter, McNabb should be happy - it means that less importance is being placed on the color of one's skin when it comes to a judgment of ability to perform a given task. Playing quarterback in the NFL, for example.

In either case, McNabb's complaint seems little more than "sound and fury, signifying nothing," from where I sit.

[Deattribution]

He didn't want any attention to be drawn to him about being black when he wasn't playing well... that I can understand..

But if you don't want to be critiized as a black quarterback (which is a dumb thing to do in the first place) , should you be praised as a black quarterback?

Can't he just be a good NFL quarterback? It's not like no one can't see the fact that he's black, so does it really need to be glorified?

To me it just does more to draw a line then it does open any windows.

[Klinglerware]

This could just be a situation where McNabb is wondering along the lines of "People were making a racial issue of it when I was playing poorly, but nobody seems to be correcting the earlier criticism now that I am playing well. What gives?" In this light, it seems fairly reasonable and innocent enough--but unfortunately for McNabb, something the press will be all over the week before the Super Bowl.

Bottom line - don't give the press anything of substance in the two weeks leading up to Super Bowl Sunday...

[hhiipp]

Most of the guys on the football field are black, so why does it matter if there hasn't been a great black quarterback all these years. It's not like a white quarterback can win the game by himself, and in many cases *gasp* he's had black guys play pivotal parts in their winning.

Bottom line is, people need to stop playing the race card, if you don't want to be seen any differently then quit trying to put that separation between us.

[Desnudo]

What about the argument that light-skinned blacks are better QBs than dark-skinned blacks?

[hhiipp]

What about the argument that light-skinned blacks are better QBs than dark-skinned blacks?
I'd say that argument holds about as much water as saying, mexicans can kick a football further than whites.

[Desnudo]

I'd say you never watched Saturday Night Live.

[ISiddiqui]

This could just be a situation where McNabb is wondering along the lines of "People were making a racial issue of it when I was playing poorly, but nobody seems to be correcting the earlier criticism now that I am playing well. What gives?"
The problem is that back then everyone piled on Limbaugh for insinuating that and they were trying to not make a racial issue out of it. The only one who'd be correcting for prior critcism would be Limbaugh himself.

[Klinglerware]

The problem is that back then everyone piled on Limbaugh for insinuating that and they were trying to not make a racial issue out of it. The only one who'd be correcting for prior critcism would be Limbaugh himself.

Yeah, I do remember the media letting Limbaugh fall flat on his face with this one. I guess I was just speculating on what would possess McNabb to say what he said.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

What about the argument that light-skinned blacks are better QBs than dark-skinned blacks?

The "brown paper bag" theory?

Nope. Charlie Batch blows that theory up. (unless you look at Andre Ware in comparison.)

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, I do remember the media letting Limbaugh fall flat on his face with this one. I guess I was just speculating on what would possess McNabb to say what he said.
He's probably just jealous of all the attention on Brady ;).

[timmynausea]

I have actually been mentioning this a lot to my girlfriend through out the season and particularly the playoffs because I was offended by what Rush said. When the Eagles were playing the Falcons I was wondering which "overrated black quarterback" would make it into the Super Bowl. I think because that Rush Limbaugh thing last year was such a huge deal, it made it impossible to completely ignore it this year. Maybe it's just me and Donovan that feel this way, but I don't think it is completely without cause.
I didn't think it was a big deal when Steve McNair made it to the Super Bowl a couple years ago. It never even crossed my mind, but if Sean Hannity had said that McNair was an overrated black QB, I would have been conscious of it.

[kingfc22]

HAHAHAHAHA

Freddie Mitchell didn't get a podium for media day. Had to sit in the stands where he belongs.
I hope that ass wipe gets lit up. What the hell has this BUST done since being taken as a 1st rd. pick?

[sabotai]

He pissed off Rodney Harrison....nice knowing Freddie....

[Dutch]

Nobody cared when Colin Powell became the first black secretary of state. Nobody cared when Condaleeza Rice became the first black woman to be secretary of state. And now nobody cares that their's a black QB in the Super Bowl. Honestly...it's about fucking time. :)

[Logan]

Bottom line - don't give the press anything of substance in the two weeks leading up to Super Bowl Sunday...

Bottom line - don't put two weeks in between Championship Sunday and the Big Game. The press needs something of substance to fill up all that time.

[Raiders Army]

I don't care if McNabb is black, white, red or purple. He's still a butt nugget.
I agree...he's a fucking punk.

[Klinglerware]

I agree...he's a fucking punk.

But I'm sure the Eagles are glad that they selected him over Ricky Williams...

[Ragone]

wtf is he talking about david carr's rushing yards were in self defense.. (aka running for his life)

at this point, with freddie mitchell's antics.. and mcnabb's idiotcy.. i wanna see the eagles get bombed

[DaddyTorgo]

the whole race thing is so...tired. I agree with what someone said earlier in the thread, and I have always felt this, with regards to everything, not just football...

if you want to be treated as equals TODAY then stop bringing up YESTERDAY. We all get it...slavery was bad, jim crow was bad, etc. In fact, things aren't perfect today in many parts of the country. But the way to fix that isn't to "whine" about previous injustices, it's to take (largely legal) action in the PRESENT to fix the problems of the PRESENT.

As a white male, even a white male who had ancestors who fought for the South in the Civil War, I am not responsible for what they did then. And I shouldn't be judged on that. I am who I am. I am my own person. Just like everybody. I shouldn't be judged on the actions of those who came before me, but similarly others shouldn't use the misfortune of those who came before them as a crutch or as a reason to hate, or anything of the sort.

can't we all stop obsessing over "race" which is also a misnomer, as we're all of the race of human beings. The differences between a black man, a white man and an asian man for example are all evolutionary adaptations to their ancestral homelands. It's all due to climate and geography, nothing more. Central Americans living in the equitorial zone tend to have wider nasal passages, much like people from Equitorial Africa. Those two subgroups have more in common than someone from Egypt and someone from Nigeria.

Geez...when can we finally get over this whole..."race" thing and realize that we're all HUMAN BEINGS. And we're all on this ball of dirt together.

rant over

[Ragone]

Funny thing is Torgo.. the White Male is the most discriminated against gender/race combo in the united states.. Between Affirmitive action, and all the assumptions of being racist.. its not easy being cheesy.. err i mean white :)

[Klinglerware]

the whole race thing is so...tired.

But Limbaugh started it all, with regards to McNabb. It wasn't an issue at all for almost everyone (McNabb probably included) until Limbaugh opened his mouth.

From his comments concerning McNabb last year, it is apparent that the race thing isn't so tired for people like Mr. Limbaugh. McNabb basically kept his head down during the firestorm and played well since. How many of us would have such a muted reaction when faced with criticism like that? What more do you want from McNabb?

[Young Drachma]

Basically, McNabb comes back in the face of adversity and proves that Limbaugh was wrong. He wasn't the only one, who proved it. But now that he's saying "Give me my due," people are still saying.."Oh whatever."

But there are plenty of stories out there in the media back when Limbaugh said what he did, that said that Limbaugh was right. Uh, wrong.

[mckerney]

Basically, McNabb comes back in the face of adversity and proves that Limbaugh was wrong. He wasn't the only one, who proved it. But now that he's saying "Give me my due," people are still saying.."Oh whatever."

But there are plenty of stories out there in the media back when Limbaugh said what he did, that said that Limbaugh was right. Uh, wrong.

Just curious, but how exactly did McNabb prove Limbaugh wrong?

If you mean he proved he wasn't overrated, I'm not so sure. What Limbaugh said was McNabb was overrated at the time, which, regardless of the reason Limbaugh believed it was, he may have had a point about. McNabb made the probowl despite a QB rating of 79.6, 9th in the NFC, also being ranked 9th in completion percentage and yards per attempt, with a team that had the 19th rated passing offense in the league. Meanwhile, Aaron Brooks was a pro bowl snub with a passer rating of 88.8 with, 24 TDs to 8 Interceptions, on the leagues 10th ranked passing offense. I'm not saying it was for the reasons that Limbaugh pointed out, it may have had more to do with McNabb's team going 12-4 and Brooks missing out on the playoffs at 8-8, and the fact that Brooks was playing for the Saints franchise and McNabb is a marketable player who'd been drafted highly in a major sports market, but it's hardly wrong to make a case that McNabb was overrated last season (and Limbaugh doing so wouldn't have been an issue if he hadn't brough up race).

As far as if his play this year proved Limbaugh wrong, I don't recall Limbaugh saying that McNabb would never be good. McNabb clearly made great improvements from last season to this and is now one of the top quarterbacks in the game. Though as far as McNabb proving that Limbaugh was wrong that race was an issue, I don't think bringing up race as an issue is a way to go about that. I think the way to do that is to stop looking at players as 'black quarterbacks' and just look at them as quarterbacks.

If Limbaugh had commented that McNabb wasn't a very good quarterback because he was black (which is seems like this is how some took his comments), then McNabb would have proven Limbaugh wrong, but the comments had more to do with Rush going after the media, as he usually seems to be doing, than anything else.

[Glengoyne]

Just curious, but how exactly did McNabb prove Limbaugh wrong?

If you mean he proved he wasn't overrated, I'm not so sure. What Limbaugh said was McNabb was overrated at the time, which, regardless of the reason Limbaugh believed it was, he may have had a point about. McNabb made the probowl despite a QB rating of 79.6, 9th in the NFC, also being ranked 9th in completion percentage and yards per attempt, with a team that had the 19th rated passing offense in the league. Meanwhile, Aaron Brooks was a pro bowl snub with a passer rating of 88.8 with, 24 TDs to 8 Interceptions, on the leagues 10th ranked passing offense. I'm not saying it was for the reasons that Limbaugh pointed out, it may have had more to do with McNabb's team going 12-4 and Brooks missing out on the playoffs at 8-8, and the fact that Brooks was playing for the Saints franchise and McNabb is a marketable player who'd been drafted highly in a major sports market, but it's hardly wrong to make a case that McNabb was overrated last season (and Limbaugh doing so wouldn't have been an issue if he hadn't brough up race).

As far as if his play this year proved Limbaugh wrong, I don't recall Limbaugh saying that McNabb would never be good. McNabb clearly made great improvements from last season to this and is now one of the top quarterbacks in the game. Though as far as McNabb proving that Limbaugh was wrong that race was an issue, I don't think bringing up race as an issue is a way to go about that. I think the way to do that is to stop looking at players as 'black quarterbacks' and just look at them as quarterbacks.
I'm sorta with you here regarding last year at least. I have never been much of a McNabb fan. I always thought he was overrated, and getting much credit for playing on a very good team. Now when I say overrated, I mean I didn't consider him to be among the very best QBs in the league. I certainly didn't think he merited becoming the highest paid player in the league...league history? In any case, I felt that there were a number of other QBs that were just as good or better than Donocan McNabb. Now when Limbaugh made those statements last year, McNabb was in the toilet statistically speaking. He couldn't go much lower. He salvaged the season though, and played very well for pretty much the rest of the year. He pretty much carried the team through the playoffs last year. In fact he pretty much proved to me that he really was among the best QBs in the league.

This year it wasn't even close. The addition of T.O. allowing the offense to open up a bit, and McNabb seriously carrying the team on his back a time or two. McNabb is now among the best QBs in the league. I am a believer.

With regard to this though....He should let it go.

[mckerney]

I'm sorta with you here regarding last year at least. I have never been much of a McNabb fan. I always thought he was overrated, and getting much credit for playing on a very good team. Now when I say overrated, I mean I didn't consider him to be among the very best QBs in the league. I certainly didn't think he merited becoming the highest paid player in the league...league history? In any case, I felt that there were a number of other QBs that were just as good or better than Donocan McNabb. Now when Limbaugh made those statements last year, McNabb was in the toilet statistically speaking. He couldn't go much lower. He salvaged the season though, and played very well for pretty much the rest of the year. He pretty much carried the team through the playoffs last year. In fact he pretty much proved to me that he really was among the best QBs in the league.

This year it wasn't even close. The addition of T.O. allowing the offense to open up a bit, and McNabb seriously carrying the team on his back a time or two. McNabb is now among the best QBs in the league. I am a believer.

With regard to this though....He should let it go.

I agree, though I have to say as far as why he was overrated, someone would have to take a very narrow look at things to come to the same conclusion that Limbaugh did. There are any number of players that are overrated for any number of reasons (just look at Jeter winning a gold glove), and Limbaugh's reasoning was far too shortsighted.

[andy m]

Funny thing is Torgo.. the White Male is the most discriminated against gender/race combo in the united states.. Between Affirmitive action, and all the assumptions of being racist.. its not easy being cheesy.. err i mean white :)
this is a less than serious comment, right?

[Ragone]

this is a less than serious comment, right?

Less then serious... yes.. but it does have some validity to it

[ISiddiqui]

It may have more validity if the President and Vice President weren't white males... and haven't been since the beginning of the Republic ;). And, of course, the vast majority of Fortune 500 CEOs as well. I think it has little to no validity to it, frankly.

[Warhammer]

But Limbaugh started it all, with regards to McNabb. It wasn't an issue at all for almost everyone (McNabb probably included) until Limbaugh opened his mouth.

From his comments concerning McNabb last year, it is apparent that the race thing isn't so tired for people like Mr. Limbaugh. McNabb basically kept his head down during the firestorm and played well since. How many of us would have such a muted reaction when faced with criticism like that? What more do you want from McNabb?

Well, McNabb is wanting to have his cake and eat it too.

If you want to get praise for being a black QB in the Super Bowl, then you also need to be ready for criticism for it.

What Limbaugh said was not in itself all that bad. Granted, it was a bigger issue 10 years ago, but he basically asked, McNabb has never put up outstanding numbers, he's playing poorly now, is the sports media pumping him up more than he should be to promote a social agenda?

McNabb didn't have anything to hang his hat on at the time. I thought McNabb was an extremely overrated QB until this year.

Limbaugh did what he was paid by ESPN to do, cause a controversy. I still don't think it was that bad, it was a slow news day, and it was blown out of proportion.

[KWhit]

Doesn't he understand that people not focusing on the color of his skin is a POSITIVE thing?!?!

Give me a break.

[Klinglerware]

Doesn't he understand that people not focusing on the color of his skin is a POSITIVE thing?!?!

Give me a break.

I am sure that he understands that. It's just an issue where he was subjected to someone insinuating a racial angle when times were bad and now he wonders why nobody is saying anything now when times are good. It's the flipside to Warhammer's earlier comment ("If you want to get praise for being a black QB in the Super Bowl, then you also need to be ready for criticism for it.")--McNabb might be wondering "If I got criticism for being a black QB before, why is nobody praising me now that I'm a Super Bowl QB?"...

[Crapshoot]

Funny thing is Torgo.. the White Male is the most discriminated against gender/race combo in the united states.. Between Affirmitive action, and all the assumptions of being racist.. its not easy being cheesy.. err i mean white :)

Roffle.

[Leonidas]

You don't see many Vietnamese quarterbacks these days.

[Havok]

great posts about Limbaugh mckerney, i know he can be a pompous blowhard sometimes but what he said was 100% correct at the time. Mccnabb was seriously overrated for a good chuck of his career and im pretty sure that had something to do with his skin color unfortunetly. This season is different of course, he's made me a believer and im sure he's made Rush a believer.

[Klinglerware]

You don't see many Vietnamese quarterbacks these days.

Maybe in a couple of years...

hxxp://www.asianathlete.com/DaScoopsFormDisplay.aspx?ID=2386

[Leonidas]

Maybe in a couple of years...

hxxp://www.asianathlete.com/DaScoopsFormDisplay.aspx?ID=2386

His college coach will fall into the typical stereotyping and make him the team's math tutor.

[Warhammer]

great posts about Limbaugh mckerney, i know he can be a pompous blowhard sometimes but what he said was 100% correct at the time. Mccnabb was seriously overrated for a good chuck of his career and im pretty sure that had something to do with his skin color unfortunetly. This season is different of course, he's made me a believer and im sure he's made Rush a believer.

Actually, Rush was talking about this exact thing yesterday. He also explained his whole purpose of being on the ESPN show was to throw a "flag" and call into question commonly held notions. In this case, it was Donovan McNabb being a top QB, and his question was is he considered a top QB because the sports media desperately wanting him to be one? He also went on to say he had a great year this year, and wound up doing ok last year.

[Warhammer]

Less then serious... yes.. but it does have some validity to it

Exactly, if you are applying to some schools, and have the same GPA, test scores, etc., the school would choose the minority student over the white student.

I was listening to a show a few weeks back, and some school in the Midwest would give each student points based upon their application, GPA, test scores, essay, etc. The single most important factor was racial status. Out of a maximum score of say 900-1000 points, 400 points were awarded if you were a minority! This was at a state school too! I want to say it was Michigan or Michigan State.

If you are a member of a rich family, it hardly matters, they'll find a way to get you into Harvard or Yale, but for your typical middle class white American, this can be very detrimental.

[ISiddiqui]

I was listening to a show a few weeks back, and some school in the Midwest would give each student points based upon their application, GPA, test scores, essay, etc. The single most important factor was racial status. Out of a maximum score of say 900-1000 points, 400 points were awarded if you were a minority! This was at a state school too! I want to say it was Michigan or Michigan State.
If they said that was current policy, then I'd say someone was pulling wool over your eyes. This system was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court last year.

[Klinglerware]

Exactly, if you are applying to some schools, and have the same GPA, test scores, etc., the school would choose the minority student over the white student.


But at Ivy league schools, the acceptance rate of Asian-American students is even lower than those of white students. Asian-American applicants who do get in typically have to have higher GPAs and test scores relative to the rest of the admitted pool.