General tells it like it is.

[Ben E Lou]

General warned to watch his words

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN
Associated Press
Published on: 02/04/05

WASHINGTON — A decorated Marine Corps general said, "It's fun to shoot some people" and poked fun at the manhood of Afghans as he described the combat action U.S. troops are seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The commandant of the Marine Corps said Thursday the comments reflected "the unfortunate and harsh realities of war," but the general has been asked to watch what he says in public.

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Lt. Gen. James Mattis, an infantry officer now in charge of developing better ways to train and equip Marines, made the comments Tuesday at an Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association conference in San Diego.

According to an audio recording, he said, "Actually, it's a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. . . . It's fun to shoot some people. I'll be right upfront with you, I like brawling."

He added, "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

His comments were met with laughter and applause from the audience. They were reported by television station KNSD.

Thursday, Gen. Mike Hagee, commandant of the Marine Corps, issued a statement saying, "Lt. Gen. Mattis often speaks with a great deal of candor. I have counseled him concerning his remarks and he agrees he should have chosen his words more carefully."

[Raiders Army]

This is great. I know some people will have problems with this, but it's absolutely true.

[yabanci]

He's actually just quoting jesus christ. I think it was the sermon on the mount where jesus said it's fun shooting people.

[albionmoonlight]

My cousin is a marine who returned from Afghanistan, and he said that one of the hardest things to get used to was how poorly they treated women over there. Feeling much like this general, he said you really just wanted to knock some sense into these guys who were walking around with their wives and daughters cowering behind them all of the time.

[Galaril]

Being a retired Air Force officer, I read what the General had to say and it sounds a lot worse how some media are reporting this out of context. But, that being said he should of shown better judgement and kept his comments to himself. The last thing anyone wants is shit like this or a "Bring it on comment" to fuel more anger against troops in the field. This is like bulletin board material for the insurgents.Just my 2 cents.

[ISiddiqui]

It's nice to see members of our military saying it's fun to kill people. Now that doesn't indicate some sort of mental problems or anything... I wonder if he's going to be taking his killing show to areas of domestic violence in the US.

[sachmo71]

Patton reborn.

[Ben E Lou]

I appreciate someone throwing the freakin' politics out the window and just saying what he really thinks.

[ISiddiqui]

Even when he shows himself to be a psychopath? :p

[ISiddiqui]

Um.. Skydog... people who enjoy killing, actual killing, are basically defined as psychopaths. It's not an opinion, it is considered a mental disease.

[Ben E Lou]

Now that doesn't indicate some sort of mental problems or anything....Do you seriously think that? If there isn't any element of fun in seeing the bad guys die, then why do you think action movies and violent video games are so popular?

[Crapshoot]

More Rednecks in power - good thing. I love the marines as some sort of moral authority bit.

[HighandOutside]

A culture of life...yes...we must promote a culture of life because God loves each and every one of us...But, geez, it sure is fun killing people.

[Ben E Lou]

God loves each and every one of us...


But, geez, it sure is fun killing people.The sarcastic responses in this thread would indicate that some of you think that two things are mutually exclusive. Even if you wanted to try to make the argument that God doesn't want us to go to war to mete out justice, in this case, I'd still respond as such: there are plenty of things that are forbidden by God that are fun.

[Ben E Lou]

Um.. Skydog... people who enjoy killing, actual killing, are basically defined as psychopaths. It's not an opinion, it is considered a mental disease.Guess I'm a psychopath then, because there's no question in my mind that I'd enjoy giving justice to brutal murderers, child molesters, rapists, and others.

[Chubby]

Do you seriously think that? If there isn't any element of fun in seeing the bad guys die, then why do you think action movies and violent video games are so popular?
you don't see any difference between watching make believe killing and shooting someone dead yourself and enjoying it?

[JonInMiddleGA]

there are plenty of things that are forbidden by God that are fun.

{and from the corner}

Amen !


:D

[Ben E Lou]

you don't see any difference between watching make believe killing and shooting someone dead yourself and enjoying it?Sure, there's a difference. Ultimately, I'm convinced that most people aren't honest with themselves with regard to the depths that they're capable of sinking, though.

[ISiddiqui]

Guess I'm a psychopath then, because there's no question in my mind that I'd enjoy giving justice to brutal murderers, child molesters, rapists, and others.
Then why haven't you? You say this now in a message board or even among friends, but when push comes to shove, I doubt you'd be a vigilante. Normal people do not enjoy killing other human beings and will only kill when it is needed.

[sachmo71]

Guess I'm a psychopath then, because there's no question in my mind that I'd enjoy giving justice to brutal murderers, child molesters, rapists, and others.
Wow.

[Ben E Lou]

Then why haven't you?Because I think it is wrong, and do not believe that I should break the law. Doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy it, though. Can you not see the difference there?

[ISiddiqui]

Because I think it is wrong, and do not believe that I should break the law. Doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy it, though. Can you not see the difference there?
... That's really sick, and frankly tell me if you enjoy it after you actually perform the deed. I suppose you may have a different opinion if you actually witness it happening.

[Ben E Lou]

tell me if you enjoy it after you actually perform the deed.Ummmm....are you not reading what I'm saying??? I'd never, ever perform the deed. No chance.

[HighandOutside]

The sarcastic responses in this thread would indicate that some of you think that two things are mutually exclusive. Even if you wanted to try to make the argument that God doesn't want us to go to war to mete out justice, in this case, I'd still respond as such: there are plenty of things that are forbidden by God that are fun.

I don't claim to know whether God wants us to go to war or not. I'll leave that to you guys who seem to know him/her so well. However, I would be disappointed in God if he endorsed all of us giggling about how much fun it is to kill.

[Ben E Lou]

I don't claim to know whether God wants us to go to war or not. I'll leave that to you guys who seem to know him/her so well. However, I would be disappointed in God if he endorsed all of us giggling about how much fun it is to kill.Where did anyone say (or imply) that He would endorse it?

[ISiddiqui]

Ummmm....are you not reading what I'm saying??? I'd never, ever perform the deed. No chance.
Ummm... I am reading what you are saying. Are you reading what I'm saying? I said that it is easy to say that on a message board or among your friends. If you actually did it, you'd be singing a different tune, I'm sure. You wouldn't be talking about how enjoying it was.

[Yossarian]

Doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy it, though

That's really fucked up.

You'd enjoy killing a man. wow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

... and will only kill when it is needed.

I suspect the number of people that "need killing" is just one of the variety of things we'd disagree about completely.

Rules of law, both God's and man's, are the only reason a lot of people I can think of are alive today.

[flere-imsaho]

Is it that you'd enjoy the actual killing of another human being, or that you'd enjoy bringing "justice", via vengenance, to bear?

[Yossarian]

Personally, I can see why people like shooting guns and stuff, I like games, I like paintball and I can imagine the thrill of the chase and the pleasure of sucessfully beating an opponent.

I wouldnt enjoy the actual act of killing though. Y'know, as you make that fatal blow or whatever. That's just about the opposite of fun IMO.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Guess I'm a psychopath then, because there's no question in my mind that I'd enjoy giving justice to brutal murderers, child molesters, rapists, and others.Count me psycho as well.

That's really fucked up.

You'd enjoy killing a man. wow.I'd enjoy killing Bin Laden and Zarqawi. I guess I'm fucked up. But it's not like that's news or anything ;)

[Yossarian]

I'd enjoy killing Bin Laden and Zarqawi.

You'd enjoy killing them? or you'd feel you were doing a service to the world?

Different sides of a coin.
One may be the "right thing" but a pleasureable act?

[flere-imsaho]

Humans, in general, enjoy performing acts of vengeance, in my opinion. I think that's what we're talking about here.

I don't think anyone (at least I hope not) is saying they'd enjoy killing for killing's sake, or that they'd enjoy killing some random person. I don't even think people are saying they'd enjoy the act, per se. I think what people are saying is that they would get satisfaction out of ending the life of a brutal terrorist. I think that's reasonable.

I think others are saying that they wouldn't enjoy any act of killing, even if they were ending the life of a brutal terrorist. I think that's also reasonable.

[Ben E Lou]

Ummm... I am reading what you are saying.Well, you said it in such a way as to indicate that you actually thought that I might go vigilante one day. Ain't gonna happen. Are you reading what I'm saying? I said that it is easy to say that on a message board or among your friends. If you actually did it, you'd be singing a different tune, I'm sure. You wouldn't be talking about how enjoying it was.Well, obviously, there's no way to know for sure, but I'm not so sure if confronted with someone who needed killin', that I wouldn't enjoy the deed. Maybe I'm naive, but my guess is that I'd feel remorse due to the punishment, but not due to the deed. I've observed too many people who felt bad that they were *caught* doing whatever, rather than felt bad about what they actually did, to think any differently about the human condition. Again, I think it is something that many aren't honest with themselves about. Oftentimes, people are remorseful not because of what they DID, but because they had to be punished for it.

To give a personal example, when I was a teenager, I got caught once for driving somewhere my parents didn't want me to go. I was punished. I was upset that I got punished; I wasn't upset over what I had done--and I did it again, taking more careful steps to make sure I wouldn't get caught.

[ISiddiqui]

I'd enjoy killing Bin Laden and Zarqawi.
I'd think it was needed, ie if I was in a room with them, but I wouldn't enjoy it.

I got caught once for driving somewhere my parents didn't want me to go. I was punished. I was upset that I got punished; I wasn't upset over what I had done--and I did it again, taking more careful steps to make sure I wouldn't get caught.Killing a person is on an entirely different level than getting punished by your parents for driving somewhere. A lot of veterans, for example, while they feel what they did was necessary, they never enjoyed ending someone else's life and for some it still haunts them.

[sachmo71]

To give a personal example, when I was a teenager, I got caught once for driving somewhere my parents didn't want me to go. I was punished. I was upset that I got punished; I wasn't upset over what I had done--and I did it again, taking more careful steps to make sure I wouldn't get caught.

I don't think the analogy quite works, especially for someone who believes in a rewarding afterlife.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[flere-imsaho]

I'd enjoy killing Bin Laden and Zarqawi.

Uh, I didn't write that.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

You'd enjoy killing them? or you'd feel you were doing a service to the world?
I'd enjoy watching them beg for their lives knowing all the death and destruction they caused has now come back to them. I'd relish their sense of "martrydom" knowing that there aren't 72 virgins waiting for them where I'm sending them. I'd take pleasure in them spitting on me because I'm a lowly zionist female.

If given the chance, I wouldn't hestitate to pull the trigger, and I would be thankful for the opportunity to do so.

It's not just killing for killing's sake, or the enjoyment out of taking the life of another human. I would give my life if it meant I could take them out at the same time. I guess it must be my need to deliver justice.

[Ben E Lou]

A lot of veterans, for example, while they feel what they did was necessary, they never enjoyed ending someone else's life and for some it still haunts them.And a lot of veterans (and not just those with post-war psychological problems) didn't have a problem with it. I've talked to enough WW2 veterans to know that.

[Ben E Lou]

I don't think the analogy quite works, especially for someone who believes in a rewarding afterlife.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->Well, at the time, I didn't.

[Klinglerware]

I'd enjoy killing Bin Laden and Zarqawi.

How would you do it? Would you use a method that would heighten your enjoyment of the act?

[ISiddiqui]

And a lot of veterans (and not just those with post-war psychological problems) didn't have a problem with it. I've talked to enough WW2 veterans to know that.
And I've spoken to plenty who simply don't want to think about it. People realize that taking another person's life is not a thing to enjoy, but something that may have been needed at the time. Did any of the WW2 vets you spoke with enjoy killing others?

[ISiddiqui]

Uh, I didn't write that.
Ooops, that is what happens when you are trying to quote multiple posts... sorry your name got there.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

How would you do it? Would you use a method that would heighten your enjoyment of the act?
What, you mean like torture by sending them through a plastic shredder? Something to prolong their deaths? No.

[Ben E Lou]

Did any of the WW2 vets you spoke with enjoy killing others?Yes. They told stories and shared laughs about killing Nazis.

[sachmo71]

Well, at the time, I didn't.
Oh, I thought you were talking in the present.

[flere-imsaho]

Yes. They told stories and shared laughs about killing Nazis.

This proves nothing. There are also plenty of WW2 vets who came back with serious problems because they killed people, even when some of those people were evil SS officers.

I don't understand why the two sides here can't understand that each side has valid points. Some people couldn't bring themselves to kill anyone, no matter what the justification. Many of these types of people ended up suffering outrageously in WW2 (and other wars) because of this "built-in" psychological make-up. There are whole tomes of military study devoted to this "problem" inherent in some soldiers (especially conscripts).

The other side has no problem with ending the life of wrong-doers, and believes they would be able to do it themselves. That's perfectly valid as well, because it too, is human, for better or for worse.

But, as I pointed out in my post above which you all seem to have ignored, there's a difference between enjoying the act of killing itself, with all context removed, and enjoying the act of killing because it's an act of vengeance. I think that's a crucial distinction people are neglecting to consider here.

[Fritz]

I don't enjoying or not enjoying killing is something inherent to a person. I think it is heavily infualnced by their cultural makeup. Most of us are taught "kiing is wrong" and thus we are messed up if we think otherwise.

However, we must have tools (military, cia, etc) that act otherwise. They are trained to have a different culture. This does not make them psycopathic.

There are plenty of historic examples of cultures that embrased killing, and I don't think all had a mental disorder.

[Klinglerware]

Also, didn't somebody do a study that suggested that only a minority of combat soldiers in WWII actually fired their weapon at an enemy?

I'm sure there were quite a few "Nazi hunters" in the day, but I wouldn't doubt that there aren't a few tall tales in the mix. Kind of like all the millions of people who say they were at Woodstock...

[Ben E Lou]

This proves nothing. There are also plenty of WW2 vets who came back with serious problems because they killed people, even when some of those people were evil SS officers.Sure, it proves nothing. My point in saying it was to respond to the notion that because lots of veterans had serious problems, then it is a serious problem. Lots of veterans had serious problems, but lots didn't. I don't think it is fair to say that either group was psychopathic, though. That was my whole point in making the comment.

I don't understand why the two sides here can't understand that each side has valid points. Some people couldn't bring themselves to kill anyone, no matter what the justification. Many of these types of people ended up suffering outrageously in WW2 (and other wars) because of this "built-in" psychological make-up. There are whole tomes of military study devoted to this "problem" inherent in some soldiers (especially conscripts).I completely understand that. I'm not arguing that they should feel the same way I do, merely that the notion that I'm proposing isn't as far-out-there and psycho as some would like to think. ;)

But, as I pointed out in my post above which you all seem to have ignored, there's a difference between enjoying the act of killing itself, with all context removed, and enjoying the act of killing because it's an act of vengeance. I think that's a crucial distinction people are neglecting to consider here.No, I didn't ignore it at all. I agreed with it, but thought that the point was so obvious that it didn't require a reply.

[Ben E Lou]

Also, didn't somebody do a study that suggested that only a minority of combat soldiers in WWII actually fired their weapon at an enemy?

I'm sure there were quite a few "Nazi hunters" in the day, but I wouldn't doubt that there aren't a few tall tales in the mix. Kind of like all the millions of people who say they were at Woodstock...Sure, but I'm not talking about a random cross-section. The men I am familiar with were all in combat units. Several Purple Hearts and Silver Stars can be found amongst 'em, but they were definitely a minority--in more ways than one. ;)

[Klinglerware]

Sure, but I'm not talking about a random cross-section. The men I am familiar with were all in combat units. Several Purple Hearts and Silver Stars can be found amongst 'em, but they were definitely a minority--in more ways than one. ;)

Point taken, SkyDog.

[Passacaglia]

Can't the sins of these people be forgiven if they accept Christ?

[cuervo72]

Sure, but I'm not talking about a random cross-section. The men I am familiar with were all in combat units. Several Purple Hearts and Silver Stars can be found amongst 'em, but they were definitely a minority--in more ways than one. ;)

Are you sure they just didn't like killing whitey?

(joke, people ;) )

[ISiddiqui]

Yes. They told stories and shared laughs about killing Nazis.
Seriously, that's messed up.

And I don't care about the context. It is seriously troubling that people enjoyed ending the lives of others. There is a difference between carrying out your duty and enjoying it.

[Anthony]

Seriously, that's messed up.

And I don't care about the context. It is seriously troubling that people enjoyed ending the lives of others. There is a difference between carrying out your duty and enjoying it.

thus is the reason why you're not in the armed forces.

war, and its success, is basically (in my mind) determiend by those who are willing to take things to the next level. i'm very glad we have people in this country who are willing to do the dirty work. if they get some satisfaction out of their job all the better. these people risk their lives and deserve any convenience afforded to them.

pussies like Siddiqui not only want people to defend him, but he wants them to not enjoy bringing justice and enjoy defending their country.

i'm with SkyDog - i couldn't kill someone for the fuck of it, but if i successfully brought an "evil-doer" to justice i'd take some satisfaction in that. there's nothing to be ashamed of for making the world a slightly better place.

there is a distinction between killing random people and killing "bad guys".

[GoldenEagle]

I wonder how many people posting in this thread have served in a hot combat zone. I know I never have. Therefore, I can not comment on the General’s remarks. Until you have served, I do not think anyone can. Were his comments out of line? Perhaps, but at the same time I think he should be an exception to the rule.

I think are military is trained to be professional soldiers. Over the history of time, soldiers have been told to kill. In a way, you could say that is it his job to kill. If he enjoys doing that, then more power to him.

As far as the ensuing debate goes, under some circumstances I would enjoy carrying out lethal justice. If I had a daughter ,and she was raped, then I would personally enjoy killing the son of bitch that did. It would have to be something along those circumstances. If someone broke into my house and I had to shoot them for the safety of my family, I would not enjoy that.

[Fritz]

Also, didn't somebody do a study that suggested that only a minority of combat soldiers in WWII actually fired their weapon at an enemy?

I'm sure there were quite a few "Nazi hunters" in the day, but I wouldn't doubt that there aren't a few tall tales in the mix. Kind of like all the millions of people who say they were at Woodstock...


The SLA Marshall ratio of fire stuff? His work has been under heavy attack as being a bunch of invented bunk.

[Glengoyne]

Seriously, that's messed up.

And I don't care about the context. It is seriously troubling that people enjoyed ending the lives of others. There is a difference between carrying out your duty and enjoying it.
I don't know. I know some WWII vets that saw combat. I know some Vietnam vets who saw combat. I think a lot of them would say that they dehumanized the enemy. They considered the enemy as much less than human. It is just about the only way you function in that environment. When you are in an environment where your own friends are being brutally killed next to you, life becomes cheap. I think it is a defense mechanism. It is much easier to kill when you don't consider the enemy as having a human life. It might even become fun.

A good family friend was a sniper in Vietnam. He has brutal guilt about it today. He knows that when three V.C. are riding up a river in a boat, that he decided which one of them he was going to kill. At the time, it was no big deal to him. 35ish years later, he is sometimes overcome by guilt<--I'm not entirely sure that is the word he would use. He has also said that his C.O. took him off of sniper duty when it became apparent that he was enjoying it.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't know. I know some WWII vets that saw combat. I know some Vietnam vets who saw combat. I think a lot of them would say that they dehumanized the enemy. They considered the enemy as much less than human. It is just about the only way you function in that environment. When you are in an environment where your own friends are being brutally killed next to you, life becomes cheap. I think it is a defense mechanism. It is much easier to kill when you don't consider the enemy as having a human life. It might even become fun.

A good family friend was a sniper in Vietnam. He has brutal guilt about it today. He knows that when three V.C. are riding up a river in a boat, that he decided which one of them he was going to kill. At the time, it was no big deal to him. 35ish years later, he is sometimes overcome by guilt<--I'm not entirely sure that is the word he would use. He has also said that his C.O. took him off of sniper duty when it became apparent that he was enjoying it.
I can see a dehumanization of the enemy at the time. Thinking of them as less than human so you can kill and not be overwhelmed by it. Though I think afterwards, thinking back, realizing that they were human has got to stop mental stable people from saying they enjoyed killing others. We may believe vigilantes (for example) are doing "good", but they are also considered to be mentally unbalanced by psychiatry.

[duckman]

More Rednecks in power - good thing. I love the marines as some sort of moral authority bit.
Nice to see how you can sit there all high and mighty while putting people in neat little categories so you can feel better about yourself. This is probably the third time I've seen you call people who don't agree with you as a "redneck" like it's a some major putdown. Do you have some hang up on this term because that's what you view people on the conservative end of the spectrum or are you just a bigot and "cracker" would be too obvious? That would be like me call every Democrat who I don't agree with a "nigger" because it so happens that many African Americans are a member even though they make up a small percentage of the party.

As people explained earlier, the military is a different culture with different sets of morals much like any other culture. One is taught to dehumanized his opposition, so he can justify killing another human being. Some learn to enjoy killing their enemy because it is acceptable in that culture. Without being in the military, you could never possibly understand that, and I don't expect you to. However, to suggest that people in position of authority in the military wants all Americans to feel that way is misguided and very shortsighted.

[gstelmack]

The recent book "Flyboys" (about WWII Pacific fighter pilots in general and a group that crashed and were taken prisoner on an island just off Iwo Jima in particular) has an excellent discussion of abuses of war and the like that might be of interest to those debating in this thread. He specifically talks about atrocities committed on both sides of the conflict and what leads men to do things in war they'd never do in real life.

[Crapshoot]

Nice to see how you can sit there all high and mighty while putting people in neat little categories so you can feel better about yourself. This is probably the third time I've seen you call people who don't agree with you as a "redneck" like it's a some major putdown. Do you have some hang up on this term because that's what you view people on the conservative end of the spectrum or are you just a bigot and "cracker" would be too obvious? That would be like me call every Democrat who I don't agree with a "nigger" because it so happens that many African Americans are a member even though they make up a small percentage of the party.

As people explained earlier, the military is a different culture with different sets of morals much like any other culture. One is taught to dehumanized his opposition, so he can justify killing another human being. Some learn to enjoy killing their enemy because it is acceptable in that culture. Without being in the military, you could never possibly understand that, and I don't expect you to. However, to suggest that people in position of authority in the military wants all Americans to feel that way is misguided and very shortsighted.


For what its worth, Im far more of a Rockerfeller Republican than I am a Democrat. Secondly, I use the term "redneck" to describe an idiot who doesnt seem to know much - be he red/white/black green whatever. In essence, to me, a redneck is an uneducated or idiotic country bumpkin type with some ancient views.

[Glengoyne]

For those interested in this topic. I reccomend this book Generation Kill: Devil Dogs, Iceman, Captain America, and the New Face of American War (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0399151931/ref=wl_it_dp/104-0789955-2905552?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=IYZS5XIRRNBN2&v=glance&colid=713V47T528AJ).

The General in this story is quoted in the book's opening line....here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0399151931/ref=sib_fs_pop/104-0789955-2905552?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S00R&checkSum=3jrHa1N3TpI1d4GY%2FpXXyUGhbaCGUQJ0nR7X%2Fp0gMDA%3D#reader-link).

It is on the short list of books I'm waiting to buy from Amazon.

[Crapshoot]

As people explained earlier, the military is a different culture with different sets of morals much like any other culture. One is taught to dehumanized his opposition, so he can justify killing another human being. Some learn to enjoy killing their enemy because it is acceptable in that culture. Without being in the military, you could never possibly understand that, and I don't expect you to. However, to suggest that people in position of authority in the military wants all Americans to feel that way is misguided and very shortsighted.

People learning to enjoy killing are fundementally misguided. There is a difference between a duty and enjoyment of that duty. And please don't give me the military line - I dont particularly care to be lectured by former army personel that I don't understand that enjoying killing people is acceptable - its moral equivalance.

[Easy Mac]

2 points:

1. Can we just agree that some on our side enjoy killing them and some on their side enjoy killing us, and the other half just do it to survive.

2. It'd be interesting to see if he would apply his own logic on some serviceman (an insanely small percentage no doubt) who smack their women around and have no manhood.

Personally, I don't think its anyone's decision to determine who lives or dies, but I know that if I had to be there and was getting shot at, I'd do what I had to do not to die (but I sure as heck would hate myself for doing it). But thats my opinion, and its a decision I'd rather never be faced with.

[Klinglerware]

And please don't give me the military line - I dont particularly care to be lectured by former army personel that I don't understand that enjoying killing people is acceptable - its moral equivalance.

Yes. I find a military guy or veteran on his high horse putting down the "ignorance" of people who didn't serve is just as dismissive as a feminist who bashes men because he "just doesn't get it."

[rkmsuf]

Let's put it this way.

I'd rather have this guy fighting on my behalf than some candy ass, politically correct pansy.

Rock on.

[duckman]

People learning to enjoy killing are fundementally misguided. There is a difference between a duty and enjoyment of that duty. And please don't give me the military line - I dont particularly care to be lectured by former army personel that I don't understand that enjoying killing people is acceptable - its moral equivalance.
And I don't particularly care for some obviously closed-minded individual placing others in neat little categories because they don't think like he does. So i guess we are in a bit of a predicament? You bash on people who don't meet your level of enlightment, and I like to "lecture". :p

[Crapshoot]

And I don't particularly care for some obviously closed-minded individual placing others in neat little categories because they don't think like he does. So i guess we are in a bit of a predicament? You bash on people who don't meet your level of enlightment, and I like to "lecture". :p

Not really - you told me I didnt have the ability to understand, while I suggested that the guy who did "understand" in your world (the general) is wrong to do so. Im expressing disgust at his opinion - you're suggesting I don't have the right to an opinion here - and there-in lies the difference.

[Franklinnoble]

Guess I'm a psychopath then, because there's no question in my mind that I'd enjoy giving justice to brutal murderers, child molesters, rapists, and others.

QOTM, baby!

Today's lesson - don't f*ck with the Head Nigger In Charge.

:D

[Klinglerware]

Let's put it this way.

I'd rather have this guy fighting on my behalf than some candy ass, politically correct pansy.

Rock on.

I don't completely disagree. I also would agree that the military culture ingrains the mentality by necessity. The problem is with the reintegration back to civilian life, since military culture and civilian culture are not always compatible. Reintegration is something we can do better at, as PTSD and suicide rates of combat veterans are higher than in the overall population.

A lot of us would love this guy in the military, but how many of us would want him as a civilian living next door?

[tategter]

I don't completely disagree. I also would agree that the military culture ingrains the mentality by necessity. The problem is with the reintegration back to civilian life, since military culture and civilian culture are not always compatible. Reintegration is something we can do better at, as PTSD and suicide rates of combat veterans are higher than in the overall population.

A lot of us would love this guy in the military, but how many of us would want him as a civilian living next door?

I would. I know quite a few old retired Marines and sailors and they are all interesting characters.

As a former Marine I have to give a big OORAH!!! to the General. His comments were a bit gungho but I'm glad he spoke his mind.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A lot of us would love this guy in the military, but how many of us would want him as a civilian living next door?

Presuming he's following the applicable rules of engagement? (i.e., he isn't currently selecting his targets on personal criteria, following orders, etc.)

It wouldn't bother me a bit, and I'd probably find him preferable to a random member of the general population. I'll even buy him beer on a regular basis.

[rkmsuf]

I dunno. I think the likelyhood of this guy picking off people to relive the thrill of killing is less than the likelyhood of some moron going sidewalk bowling after 47 consecutive hours of GTA.

[duckman]

Not really - you told me I didnt have the ability to understand, while I suggested that the guy who did "understand" in your world (the general) is wrong to do so. Im expressing disgust at his opinion - you're suggesting I don't have the right to an opinion here - and there-in lies the difference.
I never suggest that you could not have an opinion, but your originial comment was not an opinion, but a potshot at everyone who is not in your level of enlightment. When I said that you don't understand, I was making a reference to the fact you have never been in military nor had a desire to do so. You can't truly understand it without experiencing it firsthand.

BTW, I am former Air Force (not Army). :)

[Crapshoot]

I never suggest that you could not have an opinion, but your originial comment was not an opinion, but a potshot at everyone who is not in your level of enlightment. When I said that you don't understand, I was making a reference to the fact you have never been in military nor had a desire to do so. You can't truly understand it without experiencing it firsthand.

BTW, I am former Air Force (not Army). :)

the "Armed Forces", which is the standing Army per se - that's what army was referring to. No, my "potshot" was at someone who suggested the killing is fun, which reveals a fairly deep character flaw - and I explained exactly what was said - I was calling him an idiot. The experience firsthand is now tired - I can't understand because I've never been there ? This reeks of condescention. An Astronaut who's been on the moon understands it better than the scientist who's spent more time researching and working on it ? That inane.

[Fritz]

you can watch a lot of porn and not have a clue about sex

[Klinglerware]

I would. I know quite a few old retired Marines and sailors and they are all interesting characters.



Of course, many vets come back who adjust perfectly well to society upon their return--the many gregarious types we all know who share their interesting stories with us.

There are others who never speak of their time in combat, and still others with deep psychological scars from their experiences. Those are the guys that society more or less ignores. We should pay more attention to this, not so much because they could suddenly go postal (though this happens on occassion), but more because the warrior cultural ideal probably frowns on them getting the help they need to sort through their issues. They shouldn't have to suffer in silence if they don't need to.

[rexallllsc]

Guess I'm a psychopath then, because there's no question in my mind that I'd enjoy giving justice to brutal murderers, child molesters, rapists, and others.

I'm sure all of those killed were at least one of the above, right? :rolleyes:

Hey, he was mean to his wife and we don't like that in the U-S-of-A!

Different people. Different way of life. Let's hope some Muslims don't ever occupy our country and decide to enforce their morality on us.

[duckman]

I'm sure all of those killed were at least one of the above, right? :rolleyes:
Guess I'm a psychopath then, because there's no question in my mind that I'd enjoy giving justice to brutal murderers, child molesters, rapists, and others.

Obviously, you overlooked that portion of the sentence. :rolleyes:

[tategter]

I'm sure all of those killed were at least one of the above, right? :rolleyes:

Hey, he was mean to his wife and we don't like that in the U-S-of-A!

Different people. Different way of life. Let's hope some Muslims don't ever occupy our country and decide to enforce their morality on us.

Let me guess. You rode the short bus to school didn't you?

[Raiders Army]

I was going to respond more fully with the second post in this thread, but I wanted to wait it out to see how everyone responded. In my mind, pretty much status quo, and I agree with Hell Atlantic completely.

If you don't like it, that's why you aren't in the military. You just can't hack it. Obviously you've never been in a situation where you are fighting an enemy and you need someone like the General that "enjoys" killing.

If you don't like how he said it, you go to war and kill somebody and see how you feel. I don't think there are any lines to the recruiters.

[rexallllsc]

Obviously, you overlooked that portion of the sentence. :rolleyes:

Oh, so Skydog would just like killing others? Maybe he should join up. If the army won't take 'em, a security firm will.

[Fritz]

Oh, so Skydog would just like killing others? Maybe he should join up. If the army won't take 'em, a security firm will.

or the postal service

[McSweeny]

you can watch a lot of porn and not have a clue about sex

well played

[JeffNights]

From my own personal perspective, I can say that yes, it is enjoyable when you kill the enemy before he kills you.

Thats about as blunty as i can put it.

I guess according to Siddiqui , that makes me a pyschopath...ah well, i've been called worse by much better.

[KWhit]

I wonder if this kind of thought process is what led to the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. I would assume if some people enjoy killing the enemy that others enjoy torturing and degrading the enemy.

[sabotai]

I think there's a difference between someone who enjoys killing someone, and someone who enjoys killing someone before they kill him/her. I'd say a huge difference.

[JeffNights]

Nahh, not really.

[maximus]

This is great. I know some people will have problems with this, but it's absolutely true.

I agree.