My 20 Thoughts about the Super Bowl

[Draft Dodger]

(in no particular order).

1) Chris Collinsworth freaking sucks. He contradicts himself almost on every other play. Perhaps he should just comment on alternating plays, and then he'll sound like a coherrent genius. Someday, he's going to be teamed with Phil Simms, and I will stop watching football forever.

2) Terrell Owens is a tool, but he impressed the hell out of me with his play. Next time, I'd rather see him break his jaw than his leg, because he is awesome to watch, and no fun to listen to.

3) Way to go Deion Branch. Awesome to see. 35 catches in 9 regular season games...11 catches in the SuperBowl, 21 the last two SBs. Very cool.

4) Interesting that the Pats could just have easily lost each of the last 3 SBs...it's amazing how they just find a way to pull out the win. But if they'd lost one, two, or all three of those games, I don't think you'd hear the D-word at all.

5) Also interesting that in each of their SB wins, there really hasn't been a clear-cut MVP. Branch won this year, and could have easily won last year...Brady could have won this year (I believe this was his best SB game?)...so could Harrison. Just interesting

6) Philadelphia showed perhaps the worst 2 minute offense I've ever seen. I can't believe how much time they wasted...or that the 3 passes they threw on that last drive were over the middle. Simply dreadful...and I think McNabb is getting blamed for this, probably unfairly

7) That said, McNabb was very inconsistent - some great passes and a lot of crappy ones. Pressure from the Pats got to him, as, I think, pressure from the game. Still, not many QB's in the NFL I'd rather have under center for a big game.

8) I'll take military people doing a proper rendition of the anthem over Whitney Houston or anyone else who wants to use the song to flaunt their vocal chops ANY day of the week.

9) And, though I'm not a big McCartney fan, I'll glady take a focused, one act show with nice production over a "let's get every demographic covered" crap of the last few years. U2 in 2002 will forever be my favorite, but this one was surprisingly good.

10) I think the Freddy Mitchell stuff was WAY overblown. The comments weren't that incendiary. They were a story because the media needed a story, and because they don't like Mitchell. Even the announcers couldn't hide their contempt for Mitchell. I don't like Mitchell either, and am glad he didn't show up, but let's knock him for all the other idiotic things he says and can't back up, rather than this.

11) I know it's a nice pay raise and all, but if I'm Romeo Cornell, I might think about sticking around for a couple more years in New England. This team (and defense) figures to be pretty good for a couple more years anyway...and maybe if you wait, you have a chance of landing a job in an organization that actually has a chance. That's just me.

12) Love all the tie-ins, Fox. The cuts to reaction shots of celebrities associated with your shows (Tom Arnold, Jeff Gordon et al) is really, really awesome. Then you get FX's Michael Chickelis (sp?) and Will Smith (who I'm sure is in a 20th Century Fox movie coming soon to a theater near you) to do those silly opening montages. Just great. Love it. Really.

13) The officiating started off poorly (the missed Mitchell pick, the Branch "fumble", a couple missed penalties), but seemed to be ok later on. At least the replays all were right, but it's worth noting that all three challenged plays the call was wrong on the field...and for at least 2 of them, pretty easy to see from my chair.

14) Eugene Wilson's replacement (Dexter Reid) was pretty bad, and was out of position on a couple of big passes that McNabb missed (not that the FOX guys would notice). The Pats are lucky he didn't get exploited more.

15) I really wouldn't mind if the guys in the booth shut up long enough for Buck to at least notate the field position for each down. It's not too much to ask, is it? If my wife notices it, it's a glaring absence.

16) Homemade Chili-Cheese Fries are yummy

17) The pass interference penalty on the Pats FG drive was huge. Would have been nice for FOX to actually show it.

18) I wish people would stop asking the Patriots (and especially Belicheck) about the Dynasty thing. What the fuck are they supposed to say? Either they say yes, and sound cocky, or they say no and sound artificially humble.

19) Can we find someone else besides Bradshaw to give out the trophy? Do you think FOX can put a breather on James Brown pimping all of FOX's shows long enough to get him down there and bring a bit of dignity to the ceremony?

20) I love Tivoing the game to be able to pause and rewind, but it's kind of strange not fastforwarding during commercials.

[rkmsuf]

What is Bradshaw's fascination with telling people to take the trophy and parade it around the stadium.

He come up with that all on his own? Sounds like it.

[korme]

I approve with this message.

[Maple Leafs]

What is Bradshaw's fascination with telling people to take the trophy and parade it around the stadium.He does seem adamant about that. It's like they want to steal the NHL's Stanley Cup celebration, which is sad because it's one of only like three things that the NHL actually does right.

2) Terrell Owens is a tool, but he impressed the hell out of me with his play. Next time, I'd rather see him break his jaw than his leg, because he is awesome to watch, and no fun to listen to.
Agreed. There was a play late in the game where the Eagles were facing a crucial third down that they absolutely had to make to have any shot at winning. McNabb dropped back, looked over to Owens who was completely covered, and heaved it up for him. No secondary reads, no consideration of going somewhere else, just a pure case of "You're my go-to guy and I'm going to you with the super bowl on the line and you better find a way to catch it". And Owens caught it. Unbelievable play.

[bhlloy]

Dexter Reid might be one of the worst safeties I've ever seen take the field in the NFL. Couldn't agree more that it was a crime the Eagles didn't try to take advantage of him more. Having said that, let's not forget that the Pats secondary lost yet ANOTHER db and still managed to beat a very very good passing attack. To have a horrible free safety, a wide reciever and a scrub signed 3 weeks before out there in the nickel package and still not fold against on of the top passing attacks in the league is pretty damn incredible.

[mhass]

Draft Dodger for President (of FOX). And off with Collinsworth's head (or mic). Dennis Miller was much more entertaining and didn't make me stick things in my ears.

[rkmsuf]

Branch had no intention of getting into his career and going around the stadium with the trophy as TB seemed to want to get off on.

[flere-imsaho]

Who are you, Peter King? ;)

Just kidding, nice post.

[jbmagic]

Patriots goign to be even stronger next season.


Ty Law And Poole coming back right? if so there going to have so much depth at CB

[Draft Dodger]

Who are you, Peter King? ;)

Just kidding, nice post.

actually, I stole all that from King.

[rkmsuf]

Patriots goign to be even stronger next season.


Ty Law And Poole coming back right? if so there going to have so much depth at CB

Neither may be back.

Poole almost retired last year.

Law is due 12.5 million. He'll have to restructure or be cut. The way he talked last night sounded like there's hope and he wants to stay but it's 50/50 at best.

They will need help in the secondary especially with no Law. Gay did well but he's a little guy back there.

[Draft Dodger]

Patriots goign to be even stronger next season.


Ty Law And Poole coming back right? if so there going to have so much depth at CB

I have a feeling that Law will not be around. His cap number is like $13 M, he's shown he wont renegotiate, and, most importantly, the Pats have shown they can win without him. Unless he negotiates that down significantly, I think the Pats will release him and use the money to sign a couple of vets for the secondary.

Poole is signed for 2 more years, relatively cheaply I believe.

[korme]

Did anyone see the one shot of Law during the game? Where he yawned, and rubbed his eyes, trying to stay awake in the middle of the 2nd quarter?

Either he had just woken up or was high as hell.

[KWhit]

I'll take military people doing a proper rendition of the anthem over Whitney Houston or anyone else who wants to use the song to flaunt their vocal chops ANY day of the week.

Absolutely. That was the best National Anthem I've heard in a long long time.

And, though I'm not a big McCartney fan, I'll glady take a focused, one act show with nice production over a "let's get every demographic covered" crap of the last few years. U2 in 2002 will forever be my favorite, but this one was surprisingly good.

I love the Beatles and thought his performance was excellent. I don't remember the one in 2002, but this was the best halftime show in any major event that I can remember (granted, these things don't seem to be very memorable, IMO).

[Draft Dodger]

2002 was the 9/11 tribute, where they scrolled the names of the victims.

[Tekneek]

9) And, though I'm not a big McCartney fan, I'll glady take a focused, one act show with nice production over a "let's get every demographic covered" crap of the last few years. U2 in 2002 will forever be my favorite, but this one was surprisingly good.

I have been a McCartney fan my entire life, but I was skeptical. It was good. It's nice to have a halftime show that is relatively simple and presents classic material. I never got the feeling that Sir Paul was trying to make himself bigger than the game. He was just putting on a little show of classic songs. No FCC fines coming out of this one.

[Axxon]

Nice post DD. Just wanted to echo that.

[gstelmack]

Did anyone else see bits of his press conference a couple of days ago? Best bit was Paul saying "You won't have to worry about a wardrobe malfunction. We're going to play naked." He had a great sense of humor about the whole thing.

[Desnudo]

I have a feeling that Law will not be around. His cap number is like $13 M, he's shown he wont renegotiate, and, most importantly, the Pats have shown they can win without him. Unless he negotiates that down significantly, I think the Pats will release him and use the money to sign a couple of vets for the secondary.

Poole is signed for 2 more years, relatively cheaply I believe.

Gay was all over people like blanket. He made some good tackles too and should have had an interception. The same thing could have been said in the Steelers game. At some point he became a very good cornerback. I wouldn't be shocked to see Gay supporters all over Boston this time next year.

[korme]

I wouldn't be shocked to see Gay supporters all over Boston this time next year.
that had to be tongue in cheek.

[rkmsuf]

Gay was all over people like blanket. He made some good tackles too and should have had an interception. The same thing could have been said in the Steelers game. At some point he became a very good cornerback. I wouldn't be shocked to see Gay supporters all over Boston this time next year.

I don't think he's the answer long term for some reason. Maybe he'll mature physically though.

You can't argue with the results however.

[QuikSand]

I think it's hard to talk about the Patriots and their future in terms of what might happen to individual players. Haven't we figured this out yet? The Pats aren't good because Ty Law is good, and so forth. If anything, it's the other way around.

If you want to speculate about where the Pats might be headed, start with the front office -- they lose both coordinators, and for this team, I'd speculate that's potentially a [i]much[/] bigger deal than just about any players.

[Cringer]

8) I'll take military people doing a proper rendition of the anthem over Whitney Houston or anyone else who wants to use the song to flaunt their vocal chops ANY day of the week.

9) And, though I'm not a big McCartney fan, I'll glady take a focused, one act show with nice production over a "let's get every demographic covered" crap of the last few years. U2 in 2002 will forever be my favorite, but this one was surprisingly good.

When I first head who was doing the Anthem, I didn't really care much. Oh yippee, another show of our great and never dying patriotism. But I ended up feeling about the same as you, one of the best I have heard. Especially liked when the female voices kicked in towards the end.

McCartney was a pretty decent show. I will never get to excited about halftime shows though because they wil never have anyone I am dying to see, especially after the decency crackdown.....

[FrogMan]

I think it's hard to talk about the Patriots and their future in terms of what might happen to individual players. Haven't we figured this out yet? The Pats aren't good because Ty Law is good, and so forth. If anything, it's the other way around.

If you want to speculate about where the Pats might be headed, start with the front office -- they lose both coordinators, and for this team, I'd speculate that's potentially a [i]much[/] bigger deal than just about any players.
I absolutely agree with this. They played without Law since the Steelers loss. Yeah, they had holes like a flipping swiss cheese back there, but they kept winning. Richard Seymour went down, missed the playoffs, up comes a Jarvis Green and they were fine. Replacing Weisz and Crennel could be one completely different thing...

FM

[Desnudo]

I don't think he's the answer long term for some reason. Maybe he'll mature physically though.

You can't argue with the results however.

I think they'll get at least one long term starter between him and Samuel.

[rkmsuf]

I think they'll get at least one long term starter between him and Samuel.

Yes I agree. I like Samuel. He makes big plays.

As far as the front office, one thing that's clear is that Kraft and Belichick have known about this potential for sometime and they are the kings of planning ahead.

On defense it's almost a lock that they promote from within.

On offense I'd be shocked but less shocked if they don't promote from within.

Either way I don't see them changing much what they do.

The biggest key in my mind is keeping Pioli and I believe they will make that priority #1. Kraft already went out of his way to specifically praise the guy.

[QuikSand]

I don't doubt that the Pats will have quality people in the coordinator positions.

I am absolutely fascinated by their tactical decisions, though. There is a lot of calculated risk-taking that this team uses (like deciding to bring a lot more pressure in the SB than they have for weeks against any other team). They always seem to have the right call there, though -- at some point, it looks less like luck and more like someone really knowing how to push buttons and pull strings.

Unbelievable.

[rkmsuf]

I don't doubt that the Pats will have quality people in the coordinator positions.

I am absolutely fascinated by their tactical decisions, though. There is a lot of calculated risk-taking that this team uses (like deciding to bring a lot more pressure in the SB than they have for weeks against any other team). They always seem to have the right call there, though -- at some point, it looks less like luck and more like someone really knowing how to push buttons and pull strings.

Unbelievable.

I think it's that they have the experience to be confident enough to take calculated risks.

I mean leaving Gay singled up like that when they are taking shots takes guts and makes you look like a genius when it works.

I for one hope they keep the same style win or lose. They aren't afraid to do the opposite of conventional wisdom but then play very soundly when required.

[Kodos]

I found this year's Super Bowl to be much more enjoyable than the one last year. Instead of last year's Super Bowl party where women were talking during the game and shushing me during commercials, I Tivoed this Super Bowl, watched it alone, zapped through the commercials and halftime show, and was able to enjoy a football game rather than an event that caters to non-football fans. After starting the game about an hour after kickoff, I caught up somewhere in the 4th quarter and saw the game's finish live. Perfect!

Now if it had just featured a team that I like...

[AlexB]

Great post: agree with just about every one of them...

Even as an Englishman, (or maybe because?) I really appreciated the national anthem: you guys have a very patriotic, uplifting anthem and it seems that every time there's a big occasion they get somebody into crucify it...

I actually don't mind Collinsworth - find him quite funny - but he did noticably keep shifting views on how impressed he was by the Pats DBs dominating and the Eagles WRs dominating all night...

Did anybody else find it strange that Paul McCartney chose to do a cover version of Guns N Roses covering Paul McCartney's Live & Let Die?

Was there a nasty-pastel-coloured woolly jumper giveaway in a Jacksonville mall before the game? About 90% of the (frankly unconvincing) fans for the pre-game seemed to be wearing them...

I thought Will Smith's into was pretty good tbh, but the Pat's one didn't work at all - and this is gonna be norm now as teams shun the individual introductions...

Belicheck (spelling?) was great in providing an answer completely non-related to the dynasty question - that's the way to avoid either cockiness/false humility...

Is Mitchellcalled FredX because he's usually so anonymous?

And I'm looking forward to nine months without hearing overblown hype about Brian Westbrook(or Michael Westbrook according to Aikman - that would have been a comeback player!)? He's a good back, but he's nowhere near as good as people are making out. Remember Reid has never planned for him to be the absolute feature back - he might have been no. 1 on the depth chart for the last couple of years, but there's been Buckhalter and Staley the last couple of years, and this year when Buckhalter went down, Reid went and got Levens and still runs the ball less than any other team in the NFL. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. He's a very good receiver, not a featured running tailback - there's a reason he averaged 11 carries a game this year...

[Desnudo]

I thought Will Smith's into was pretty good tbh, but the Pat's one didn't work at all - and this is gonna be norm now as teams shun the individual introductions...

Not as long as Ray Lewis is in the game and miked up.

[BrianD]

(in no particular order).

1) Chris Collinsworth freaking sucks. He contradicts himself almost on every other play. Perhaps he should just comment on alternating plays, and then he'll sound like a coherrent genius. Someday, he's going to be teamed with Phil Simms, and I will stop watching football forever.

The worst was his unending praise for Brady's ability to look off the defense before throwing to his target. This comment came out after his touchdown pass to the side of the end zone. Watching the replay, it was perfectly clear that Brady was frantically searching for anyone to throw too.


8) I'll take military people doing a proper rendition of the anthem over Whitney Houston or anyone else who wants to use the song to flaunt their vocal chops ANY day of the week.

The anthem was written as a march, and that is really the way it needs to be performed. This is an opportunity to honor the country, NOT to show off your own talent.


9) And, though I'm not a big McCartney fan, I'll glady take a focused, one act show with nice production over a "let's get every demographic covered" crap of the last few years. U2 in 2002 will forever be my favorite, but this one was surprisingly good.

The half time show was rather dull, but I guess dull is better than annoying. The music was fine, but it didn't give me the energy to dive into the second half.


13) The officiating started off poorly (the missed Mitchell pick, the Branch "fumble", a couple missed penalties), but seemed to be ok later on. At least the replays all were right, but it's worth noting that all three challenged plays the call was wrong on the field...and for at least 2 of them, pretty easy to see from my chair.

Officials have started using replay as a crutch. If there is any possibility that a call might be close, officials generally pick the call that is able to be challenged. That "fumble" was clearly not a fumble since the defender had to tug two or three times after everyone was laying down just to get the ball out. If the ref blows the play dead, nobody can review the call. If he calls it a fumble - just in case - it can be corrected on review.

[rkmsuf]

One thing I had never seen before is the officials digging for the ball in the pile while the guy was standing at midfiled with it.

[FrogMan]

Not as long as Ray Lewis is in the game and miked up.
you forgot about TO...

FM

[Cringer]

The half time show was rather dull, but I guess dull is better than annoying. The music was fine, but it didn't give me the energy to dive into the second half.


I thought a good trip to the bathroom provided that.....

BTW, welcome to the board........

[Franklinnoble]

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I really enjoyed the halftime show. I can't stand pop music these days, so maybe that's it, but I'll take McCartney singing his old stuff over a bunch of:

* White sissy boys acting black
* Thug rappers pretending to be gangsters walking around with saggy pants, 6 pounds of jewelry, and shouting incoherently into a microphone.
* Tramp girls lip synching and trying to look sexy doing it.
* Any combination of the above.

[Draft Dodger]

Officials have started using replay as a crutch. If there is any possibility that a call might be close, officials generally pick the call that is able to be challenged. That "fumble" was clearly not a fumble since the defender had to tug two or three times after everyone was laying down just to get the ball out. If the ref blows the play dead, nobody can review the call. If he calls it a fumble - just in case - it can be corrected on review.

I agree pretty much, especially the first part - I think it's really hurt the on-field officiating. I like the idea of letting the play run...but it seems like every game I see where they should have let the play go, they didn't. And, still, that fumble was blatantly not a fumble.

Granted, I was sitting about 2 feet from the projector screen...but I think even people with little TVs could have seen that, and certainly the refs on the field should have.

[jetpunk2000]

(in no particular order).


11) I know it's a nice pay raise and all, but if I'm Romeo Cornell, I might think about sticking around for a couple more years in New England. This team (and defense) figures to be pretty good for a couple more years anyway...and maybe if you wait, you have a chance of landing a job in an organization that actually has a chance. That's just me.




Well, the main problem with that is Crennel is 57. His window is definitely closing.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Good stuff, DD. But, I agree with JP2000, Crennel's time is now. He's 57, which is close to retiring age for most professions. He's been the D coordinator for three Super Bowl teams. What else is there for him? He's at the heigh of his popularity right now. Look at Kifkin in Tampa. After they won the Super Bowl there were all sorts of rumors. He doesn't look so hot right now, does he?

Also, the Browns have a good a shot as any other team looking for a head coach. It's rare for good teams to fire their coach.

Also, wasn't there a roughing the passer call on a play? Did we ever see that?

[Draft Dodger]

Also, wasn't there a roughing the passer call on a play? Did we ever see that?

sorry, I said pass interference, but it was roughing the passer. and it was stupid not to show it. I don't even remember if they said who it was on, but I may be wrong on that...

[Travis]

And I'm looking forward to nine months without hearing overblown hype about Brian Westbrook(or Michael Westbrook according to Aikman - that would have been a comeback player!)? He's a good back, but he's nowhere near as good as people are making out. Remember Reid has never planned for him to be the absolute feature back - he might have been no. 1 on the depth chart for the last couple of years, but there's been Buckhalter and Staley the last couple of years, and this year when Buckhalter went down, Reid went and got Levens and still runs the ball less than any other team in the NFL. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. He's a very good receiver, not a featured running tailback - there's a reason he averaged 11 carries a game this year...

There's also a reason they are 22-2 (after yesterday) when he gets 10+ touches in a game. The kid is a gamebreaker and the reason they've been careful with him is because they had a lot of RB depth and had injury concerns with him. He still had 1,500 combined yards this year even with the injury, and is a potential home run hitter any time he touches the ball. Do they need to make sure they have a good backup to him in case of injury (and preferably a bigger short yardage type guy), yes, but most teams do (ala Warrick Dunn). Just don't be at all surprised if he's Philly's starting RB for the forseeable future with what he showed them this year.

[hhiipp]

Is Mitchellcalled FredX because he's usually so anonymous?
He calls himself Fredex because he "delivers" like the parcel delivery service FedEx.

[Honolulu_Blue]

sorry, I said pass interference, but it was roughing the passer. and it was stupid not to show it. I don't even remember if they said who it was on, but I may be wrong on that...
I think you're right, they didn't say who it was on. Hell, I forgot about it until I read your post about the pass interference.

[illinifan999]

Best play of the game: fumble, huge pile. player with ball escapes pile. officials still getting people off the pile looking for the ball. player runs towards midfield with ball. refs still looking in the pile.

[Solecismic]

There was a lot of Gay bashing last night. McNabb picked on him constantly. Gay made some plays, took advantage of poor McNabb throws on others.

I thought the story of the game was how badly McNabb played. Yes, I know he threw for 357. But he needed 51 attempts, and couldn't take enough advantage of a depleted and undertalented Patriot secondary.

Patriots are in great shape capwise. I'm guessing they go out and get a stud CB to replace Law. Word is that the Chiefs really like Law and are planning to go after him with a very large checkbook when the Pats cut him because of the huge cap number.

Crennel deserves a shot. Might as well be the Brownies. Once they settle that quarterback mess and get some consistency, they're not horrible. They have a good core set of players from a leadership/pride perspective.

Brady played very well - I think he cemented his HOF credentials as a big-game quarterback who makes very few mistakes. No interceptions in the playoffs against two of the top defenses. And Indianapolis, who held him to less points than those two.

Greg Lewis just made Freddie Mitchell very much expendable. That guy's going to be good. He and T.O. together are just what McNabb needs to get another shot at this championship next year.

[DaddyTorgo]

Best play of the game: fumble, huge pile. player with ball escapes pile. officials still getting people off the pile looking for the ball. player runs towards midfield with ball. refs still looking in the pile.
i'm still not understanding how that was a fumble. To this moment. Okay, Brady hits the ball against the RB...ball falls to the ground...ball is live. Brady falls on the ball. Ball is completly under him. Eagle player falls on Brady, WHILE HIS KNEE IS TOUCHING THE GROUND.

Bingo...play is dead right there!!! But somehow they let a rugby-style scrum develop and the Eagles guys grab the ball away. That's bullcrap. Horrible horrible call. Could very well have changed the game IMO. It really wasn't THAT close a game...if the Pats keep that ball and pound it in for a TD (no reason to suppose they wouldn't) it's what...31-21?

[Draft Dodger]

i'm still not understanding how that was a fumble. To this moment. Okay, Brady hits the ball against the RB...ball falls to the ground...ball is live. Brady falls on the ball. Ball is completly under him. Eagle player falls on Brady, WHILE HIS KNEE IS TOUCHING THE GROUND.

Bingo...play is dead right there!!! But somehow they let a rugby-style scrum develop and the Eagles guys grab the ball away. That's bullcrap. Horrible horrible call. Could very well have changed the game IMO. It really wasn't THAT close a game...if the Pats keep that ball and pound it in for a TD (no reason to suppose they wouldn't) it's what...31-21?

Brady did NOT have possession.

[DaddyTorgo]

how did he not have possession? He fell on top of the ball...meaning the ball was underneath his body completly. His arms were around it, however loosely. Isn't that possession? Or is possession actually emerging from the rugby-scrum with it? Because I think that's a fairly dangerous precedent for the NFL to set...

[FrogMan]

i'm still not understanding how that was a fumble. To this moment. Okay, Brady hits the ball against the RB...ball falls to the ground...ball is live. Brady falls on the ball. Ball is completly under him. Eagle player falls on Brady, WHILE HIS KNEE IS TOUCHING THE GROUND.

Bingo...play is dead right there!!! But somehow they let a rugby-style scrum develop and the Eagles guys grab the ball away. That's bullcrap. Horrible horrible call. Could very well have changed the game IMO. It really wasn't THAT close a game...if the Pats keep that ball and pound it in for a TD (no reason to suppose they wouldn't) it's what...31-21?
as DD said, Brady didn't have possession. Yes he fell to the ground, but not on top of the ball, the ball was to his side, almost under his arm, but not quite. That's when and Eagles stole it.

FM

[DaddyTorgo]

could be that the ball wasn't under his arm I guess. I guess I'd want to see it, because I mean if any part of the ball is touching any part of him and then he gets jumped on, wouldn't he be down by contact and the play dead?

[Draft Dodger]

how did he not have possession? He fell on top of the ball...meaning the ball was underneath his body completly. His arms were around it, however loosely. Isn't that possession? Or is possession actually emerging from the rugby-scrum with it? Because I think that's a fairly dangerous precedent for the NFL to set...

as Froggy pointed out, it wasn't underneath his body...really, not even close.
as for the precedent thing...um, what football have you been watching? that craziness in the scrum after a fumble happens all the time - unless it's completely clear if someone had possession going in, it's going to who comes out with it. Right or wrong, that's how it's been happening since...what, 1921?

[Draft Dodger]

could be that the ball wasn't under his arm I guess. I guess I'd want to see it, because I mean if any part of the ball is touching any part of him and then he gets jumped on, wouldn't he be down by contact and the play dead?

nah - touching isn't good enough. he has to have possession of the ball. I get what you are saying about the Eagle touching him, but it's moot if he doesn't have possession

[DaddyTorgo]

alright. I don't really know what my point was, and we won so it's not really worth arguing. I just wish I could have seen replays of that play from a different angle because I thought at least on TV that it looked a little ambiguous.

And as for precedent I was saying more that like not every fumble will turn into that, but like...every running play for example, or every pass caught. It's going to end up like rugby, a game of "kill the carrier and get the ball" as opposed to football. I guess.

[sabotai]

possession = control. Just being on top of the ball is not enough anyway. He has to have control of the football in order to be in possession of it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yeah, DD is right. Even as a Pats fan, I'd have to say it was a fumble. No possession. Plus, he shouldn't have dropped it in the first place.

By the way, I know it was only a 3 point win, but I never felt at any time the Pats were going to lose. Unlike the Rams or Carolina (4th quarter).

Plus, I hate the non-dynasty talkers focusing on the small margin victories in the SB. They absolutely dominated Indy and Pitt (the two other best teams in the league IMO) in the playoffs. Meanwhile, SF wins two squeakers against Cincy, but that doesn't matter. ????? They have won 32 of 34 games; and have the best track record over the last 2 seasons ever against teams with winning records. What gives. All this in the salary cap era in the face of major injuries. Would the game have even been close with Law, Poole, and Wilson (playing the whole game)?

[Travis]

You know, the best part of that play was Kearse not going for the ball, but diving in and rolling Brady away from it so that he couldn't get complete possession of it for the Pats. It was a split second deal, and just as it looked like Brady was going to be able to pull it in, Kearse dove in, pushing him away and leaving the ball up for grabs. Maybe I'm giving too much credit and he just missed the ball on his dive in, but if it was his intent, great job at pushing Brady away to keep the play alive.

[Desnudo]

alright. I don't really know what my point was, and we won so it's not really worth arguing. I just wish I could have seen replays of that play from a different angle because I thought at least on TV that it looked a little ambiguous.

And as for precedent I was saying more that like not every fumble will turn into that, but like...every running play for example, or every pass caught. It's going to end up like rugby, a game of "kill the carrier and get the ball" as opposed to football. I guess.

At first I thought it was a bs call but watching the replay from the end zone, you can clearly see the ball squirts out from under him and he doesn't have control of it at any time.

[FrogMan]

could be that the ball wasn't under his arm I guess. I guess I'd want to see it, because I mean if any part of the ball is touching any part of him and then he gets jumped on, wouldn't he be down by contact and the play dead?
Me thinks you're mixing this up with a player touching the ball and touching the sideline, in which case, possession isn't necessary, the ball is considered out of bound. Don't remember who, but a Pats WR was knocked cold in their first SB run, around the end of the season. After a pass reception, made the mandatory two steps, then was hit hard right next to the sideline and dropped to the ground with the ball leaving his hands. He was touching the sideline and the ball at the same time, they called it a ball fumbled out of bound...

FM

[Darkiller]

My SuperBowl XXXIX thoughts, from the WE that was:

1a) First off, what a relief and what a joy to see Steve Young being inducted in the Hall of Fame on the 1st ballot. Well deserved !

1b) I didn't enjoy SBXXXIX nearly as much as last year's SB XXXVIII between NE and Carolina, which I feel was one of the best ever.

2) The first half (and especially the first quarter) were ugly football wise, but interesting to follow because both teams neutralizing each other this way was not what I expected.

3) McNabb throws less than 10 picks ALL season long (1st QB in NFL history to throw for 30+ TDs in a season with less than 10 INT)...and notches 3 (coulda been 4 if it weren't for the overturned call) in the biggest game of the year.

4) Worst two-minute (or I should say : worst five-minute) offense from Philly I have seen in quite while, and this looks even more horrendous when it happens in the SuperBowl.

5) Brady wasn't spectacular but kept in there, was really poised and clutch on 3rd-down passing plays. I'm not a "fan" but you have to give the guy loads of credits for what he does. He simply wins.

6) I think there we have the comparison for good : Brady & Manning are indeed your Montana & Marino of this decade. (Both are in the Hall of Fame now by the way)

7) Weird to think of the Patriots as THE franchise of nowadays (I've been a football fan since 1987 and until recently, they were the league's laughingstock) but they now clearly are a dynasty with 3 SB wins in 4 years and 4 SuperBowl berths from '96-'04.

8) Terrell Owens was superb. Hauling in 9 catches for 122 yards (when you know the all-time SuperBowl record is 11 catches and he basically played on one leg)...Great inspiring effort from the league's BEST receiver. Get that Randy Moss ?

9) With Donahue, Erickson, Garcia gone...now you wonder if keeping Owens in a 49er uniform actually wouldn't have been the right thing to do.

10) Didn't like FOX TV coverage of the SuperBowl at all. Not talking about the announcers (leaving in France, we have french announcers instead of the FOX team) but the TV showing was surprisingly bad. Missed replays, bad angles etc...the "grass camera" was a joke...grade : C-

11) I think New England losing both long-time coordinators has really been overlooked in recent days and this could be quite an issue next year. As QuikSand said and I agree whole heartedly, these two losses will probably impact the team more than any other player.

12) I'm not worried for Tom Brady's contract. When you are a 27-year old poster boy QB with 3 SuperBowls after 5 years in the league and 4 as a starter, you know the team owner and your agent will take care of business properly.

13) I know I looked totally ridiculous last sunday wearing my Steve Young #8 jersey in my pant. Friends made fun of me. Rightfully so.

14) I have already bought my two tickets for the August 7th Hall of Fame enshrinment ceremony in Canton to support Young.

15) Now looking forward to the Draft and the Niners owning the #1 overall pick. Quite an exciting time since this will be the first time in 40 years that San Fran has the n°1 pick.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I agree with 11, but not 7. Laughingstock? That's a little harsh. They had some very bad years in there (2 wins) but no more than some teams. Let's just say they were "terrible." Otherwise you hurt my feelings.

Everything else you said was pretty good. Thanks for some of the Patriot love in there too. I find SF's decision in the draft to be fascinating with no Leinhart available.

[AlexB]

There's also a reason they are 22-2 (after yesterday) when he gets 10+ touches in a game. The kid is a gamebreaker and the reason they've been careful with him is because they had a lot of RB depth and had injury concerns with him. He still had 1,500 combined yards this year even with the injury, and is a potential home run hitter any time he touches the ball. Do they need to make sure they have a good backup to him in case of injury (and preferably a bigger short yardage type guy), yes, but most teams do (ala Warrick Dunn). Just don't be at all surprised if he's Philly's starting RB for the forseeable future with what he showed them this year.

I know what you're saying: I agree he's a good back, but he's not great, and he seems to have gotten the rep of a superstar all of a sudden. I've only seen him play 5 games (I think, an admittedly small sample) this year (the playoffs and a couple of regular season games) but I just haven't seen 'it'.

I'd rate him outside of the top 10 RBs at the moment (McGahee, Dillon, Holmes, Tomlinson, Barber, Portis, Alexander, Martin, James, D.Davis...) He had similar rushing stats to Chester Taylor FFS! (17 carries more for 100yds more).

Granted he's a hell of a threat against an LB and a lot of safeties in the passing game, he's better than anybody my team's had in the last 15yrs (apart from Ricky Williams) and may turn out to be another Faulk, but I just don't buy the hype at the moment.

If in a couple of years his YPC stays the same but no of carries increases by 50% or so, and receiving stats stay similar, I'll be fully prepared to accept the current level of adulation as suitable then...

[bhlloy]

Another thing to note is that most teams have a very good record when their running back touches the ball a lot... it means that they are running the clock out. Not all the time but it's a pretty good indication.

Westbrook is a threat on any play, and excellent as a reciever out of the backfield. But he's an average every down runner at best. He'd be much more effective with a better back that Dorsey Levens to share the load with (it hurts to say that as Dorsey was one of my favourites back in the day)

[FrogMan]

Another thing to note is that most teams have a very good record when their running back touches the ball a lot... it means that they are running the clock out. Not all the time but it's a pretty good indication.Always makes me laugh when you hear something like "when he runs more than 30 times, they win". Yeah, because they were winning, they ran him to kill the clock, hello :)

FM

edit: I hate myself for using "here" instead of "hear", blech... so I had to edit it :)

[Desnudo]

I agree with 11, but not 7. Laughingstock? That's a little harsh. They had some very bad years in there (2 wins) but no more than some teams. Let's just say they were "terrible." Otherwise you hurt my feelings.

Everything else you said was pretty good. Thanks for some of the Patriot love in there too. I find SF's decision in the draft to be fascinating with no Leinhart available.

I thought they had a 1-15 year in there somewhere in the early 90s. They weren't the laughingstock before Parcells showed up, but in-between him and Ray Berry, they were pretty much the bottom of the barrel for a little. The worst 5 teams or so.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Actually, you're right. They went 1-15 in 1990 (the year of the Zefross Moss penis incident) and 2-14 in 1992.