Best of the best

[judicial clerk]

Admist all of this talk regarding dynasties and the like, I came up with a question. What player or team (past or present) has the most irrefutable claim to being the best ever. Another way to put the question might be what player or team outshined or outshines their competition by the widest margin or what player or team is the best ever by the widest margin. For example, many people might agree that Jerry Rice is the best NFL reciever of all time by a wide margin or that John Wooden is the best ever college basketball coach ever by a wide margin or that USC’s current team is the best college football team ever by a wide margin.

Who is the bestest by the mostest?

[SackAttack]

I would argue that the 2003 Detroit Tigers were better at losing than any baseball team in modern history. The 1962 Mets had an excuse - they were an expansion franchise, full of castoffs and rejects. The 2003 Tigers were the product of management building its own team.

:D

[Joe]

Admist all of this talk regarding dynasties and the like, I came up with a question. What player or team (past or present) has the most irrefutable claim to being the best ever. Another way to put the question might be what player or team outshined or outshines their competition by the widest margin or what player or team is the best ever by the widest margin. For example, many people might agree that Jerry Rice is the best NFL reciever of all time by a wide margin or that John Wooden is the best ever college basketball coach ever by a wide margin or that USC’s current team is the best college football team ever by a wide margin.

Who is the bestest by the mostest?


Ray Guy

[MikeVic]

I'd say Gretzky.

[Radii]

Mia Hamm, or the North Carolina womens soccer team for what, 20 years? Iowa wrestling?

In a more favored sport

Michael Jordan, absolutely no contest in my mind. Jordan IMO is so far ahead of whoever would be second best all time in the NBA(Bill Russel? Chamberlain? Oscar? West? Magic? Bird? dont' give me that kobe bullshit.) that he seems to me to be the perfect answer to this question.

[KWhit]

The Babe.

[Senator]

Charles Paddock

[sachmo71]

I was hoping for the Eric Roberts and James Earl Jones in this thread. :(

"No Tommy! No!"

[Franklinnoble]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6301605462.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[revrew]

Ditto for Mia Hamm, Wayne Gretzky, and Michael Jordan

I disagree with the Babe, as even his own teammate, Lou Gehrig, would give him a run for the money in being the arguably best. Babe's pitching gives him a definite edge, but I think best baseball player is too close of a contest.

I'll give you Jerry Rice as WR, also, but that may be the only football winner.

[Raiders Army]

Michael Jordan: Basketball and Shoes
Jerry Rice: NFL Receivers
Lance Armstrong: Cycling
Wayne Gretzsky: Hockey
Hulk Hogan: Professional Wrestling

That soccer guy from South America escapes me for a moment.

[Lathum]

Cy Young

[Lathum]

That soccer guy from South America escapes me for a moment.

Pele

[Raiders Army]

Thanks.

[condors]

football-Jerry Rice is there a record he doesn't have?

baseball-Barry Bonds(if we can take away his numbers due to roids then babe ruth)

basketball-Wilt Chamberlain (although MJ is the more popular vote Wilt lead the league in scoring, rebounding and assists, if a kid coming out of college put up the same numbers Wilt did today they would be calling him the best ever). There is this Shaq guy who is pretty good as well.

hockey:Wayne Gretzky not sure we will ever see another player like him again.
Although Patrick Roy could be argued(it has been on a website) was more important to his teams during his career.

Soccer: i can't say Pele or Maradonna as both were amazing, if i was building a team i would hard pressed not to take a young Oliver Kahn(similar to hockey get a top keeper) to build my team around but i believe you could throw another other names into the mix and i wouldn't disagree with you that strongly.

I want to mention Lance Armstrong but i don't want to start a debate that he doesn't do all the races etc but his tour de france wins are very impressive

[VPI97]

Cael Sanderson

Alexandre Kareline

[moriarty]

Jenna Jameson

[Lathum]

I have to comment on Gretzky. Now before everyone jumps down my throat, I do think he is the best to ever play, but I don't think it is by that huge of a margin. An argument can be made that if Lemieux didn't get hurt he could have put up similar numbers to Gretzky, and Lemieux didn't have half the talent Gretzky had playing around him. I think an argument can also be made for Gordie Howe based on longevity in a era of the sport that was much rougher. Howe never had "enforcers" that watched his back, he had to take care of himself.

[rkmsuf]

Takeru Kobayashi

[Franklinnoble]

Jim Brown

[Swaggs]

People seem to have a short memory in college football these days and are giving USC way too much love. They had a great season and have had a nice 3-year run, but I don't see them as being any better than some of the Nebraska, Oklahoma, Miami, Florida State or Michigan teams from the last 15-20 years.

I keep hearing the guys on ESPN talking about them threepeating. I guess LSU's national championship doesn't count anymore.

[Kodos]

Lance Armstrong. He spotted everyone a bout with cancer and still kicks everyone's ass.

[AnalBumCover]

Takeru KobayashiGood one. That little guy is amazing.

[Karlifornia]

Ken Jennings

[Lathum]

Not sure if it is spelled right but Saduhara Oh

[Desnudo]

Ty Webb

[judicial clerk]

I a no wrestling expert, but Alexandr Karelin was pretty bad ass. He could do moves that no other superheavyweight could do and he only lost one time in a career that spanned maybe five olympics.

Another good one is Eric Heiden. Five gold medals and five world records in speed skating in one olympics.

[rkmsuf]

Eric Heiden. Bah, Kobayashi would eat circles around that guy.

[Swaggs]

What about Tecmo Bowl Bo Jackson or Lawrence Taylor?

[tdydynasty]

UCLA's basketball teams of the 60's and 70's. 10 championships dominated by Lew Alcindor and Bill Walton. John Wooden was the bestest basketball coach (pro or college) ever. They would had 1 more if not for the freshmen not elgible for varsity. Lew Alcindor's freshmen team beat the varsity. They were number 1 that year but Texas Western won that championship in 1966.

[Franklinnoble]

What about Tecmo Bowl Bo Jackson or Lawrence Taylor?

Winner.

[Abe Sargent]

You may not like this answer - but WVU and Riflery has got to be the most dominating of virtually any sport.

The current head coach is 146-8 over 15 seasons. They've had 12 Olympians, 65 NCAA All Americans, 20 Individual NCAA Champions, and 13 NCAA Team Championships!

13 years saw WVU as the National Championship! 20 years saw the best player from WVU! That's pretty solid domination there.

-Anxiety

[bhlloy]

I have to comment on Gretzky. Now before everyone jumps down my throat, I do think he is the best to ever play, but I don't think it is by that huge of a margin. An argument can be made that if Lemieux didn't get hurt he could have put up similar numbers to Gretzky, and Lemieux didn't have half the talent Gretzky had playing around him. I think an argument can also be made for Gordie Howe based on longevity in a era of the sport that was much rougher. Howe never had "enforcers" that watched his back, he had to take care of himself.

Could not agree more, Gretzky was great but he's not so far out of Lemieux's league. Lemieux in his prime was incredible and had a physical element that Gretzky didn't have. Don't get me wrong Mario wasn't half the playmaker Gretzky was, but for pure talent he's equal IMO. Also don't forget about Bobby Orr - changed the way the game was played. Don't think Gretz belongs here.

Pele is definitely not in the clear "best ever" category either. Eusebio, Maradona, Zidane, Garrincha, Puskas, Di Stefano off the top of my head are in the same league and there must be a ton more.

Personally only one person obviously comes to mind here - Jerry Rice. No reciever even comes CLOSE to his dominance.
The other football player I will throw out there is Lawrence Taylor... pretty dominant and changed the way his position was played.

[Radii]

The current head coach is 146-8 over 15 seasons. They've had 12 Olympians, 65 NCAA All Americans, 20 Individual NCAA Champions, and 13 NCAA Team Championships!

I think UNC Womens Soccer is slightly more dominant than that.

NCAA Womens tourney started in 1982. UNC has won 17 of the 23 tournaments including 16 of the first 19.

8 seasons without a loss from 1986-1993 (record: 186-0-9)

In its first 25 years of existance as a program, UNC's record: 532-25-15, all under the same coach.

EDIT: Also found this info:

"Since 1985, UNC has had 42 of its alumnae compete with the U.S. National Team at one time or another."

No luck finding a list of all americans though.
This feels silly arguing, eh? But fun, I suppose :D

[ahbrady]

The University of Arkansas in Men's Cross Country and Track and Field. I don't have their exact numbers right now, but they are pretty impressive.

[Ragone]

Its rather shameful that Muhammed Ali hasn't been mentioned yet ;)

[Tigercat]

The University of Arkansas in Men's Cross Country and Track and Field. I don't have their exact numbers right now, but they are pretty impressive.

Arkansas's overall track program has been impressive, and their men had a streak of 8 straight years with titles for a while there.

But, even more impressive was the LSU Women's track team which won 11 straight titles from 1987-1997. As much parity as there is in track and field with the variety of athletes available, both records are quite impressive.

[Darkiller]

FOF.

[Vince]

**Homer alert**

Dynasty talk and best of the best...I was watching the (I don't know if it was NFL Films or ESPN) 'Matchup of the Milennium,' where they pitted the 4 great dynasties (60s Pack, 70s Steelers, 80s Niners, 90s Cowpies) against one another, and tried to find out who would win...and I really think the 49ers of the '80s were the best team to ever play football. The best QB ever, the best WR ever, the best S ever, and some of the greatest role-players ever. They had one of the most incredible offenses ever -- Rathman, Craig, Montana and Rice made for such an amazing spread of ability. Add in Solomon, Clark or Jones and you've got a ridiculously difficult task in defending that. The defense outside of Ronnie Lott escapes me largely at this point, but I'll claim that's because it's 2:30 AM :)

**End Homer Alert**

Feel free to bash the hell out of that clearly biased opinion :)

[tdydynasty]

Stanford's athletic programs have won 10 Director's Cups for most outstanding athletic program in Divsion 1 since its founding in 1993-94. They know how to recruit smart and talented athletes.

[MIJB#19]

I find this a tough discussion to point out names, the criteria are too wide open.

To go by a stated example, in cycling Lance Armstrong takes the crown for being the best ever in the most important race (le Tour de France). But when going by the entire sport and putting in all the other important races, he'd just barely made an all-time top 10, if at all. Not even mentioning how much the team element in cycling has been involved in Armstrong's success.

Also, a good point made by someone else in some thread about the Patriots' "dynasty" should be concidered too: How big of a competition was there? Otherwise it would be easy to claim that the Dutch korfball team is the most dominant team in the world.

[Maple Leafs]

I have to comment on Gretzky. Now before everyone jumps down my throat, I do think he is the best to ever play, but I don't think it is by that huge of a margin. An argument can be made that if Lemieux didn't get hurt he could have put up similar numbers to Gretzky, and Lemieux didn't have half the talent Gretzky had playing around him. I think an argument can also be made for Gordie Howe based on longevity in a era of the sport that was much rougher. Howe never had "enforcers" that watched his back, he had to take care of himself.
Agreed, and of course many people would also argue for Bobby Orr. As good as Gretzky was, he was the best ever at this position. Orr actualyl changed the way his position was played.

(I'd still take Gretzky as the best of all-time and by a wide margin, but it's not in the Jerry Rice category of being no contest.)

[JPhillips]

40s-50s Cleveland Browns. Their AAFC record with Otto Graham was 52-4-3. When they moved to the NFL they dominated until Graham finally retired for good after the 1955 Championship. With Graham as QB they played in ten straight title games winning four AAFC titles and three NFL titles.

50s-60s Boston Celtics. From 1957 to 1969 they won every NBA Championship save one. Once they added Bill Russell they dominated for over a decade.