FM2005: Tactics Advise?

[sabotai]

Well, I played around with the game a bit and am ready to dive into a real game, but I'm still pretty much a n00b when it comes to soccer and tactics. Any general advise? I'm not looking for "super tactics" or anything, but something along the lines of "If you have a striker with X for Y attribute, make sure you have him to this" or "Unless your defensemen are good at so-and-so, never try this", etc. etc. Just good general advise on tactics. Any links to guides for tactics or anything like that?

[DaddyTorgo]

hxxp://www.thedugout.net has a good tactics section for getting your feet wet. Also, once upon a time the SI tactics forum actually used to be useful, havn't been on their boards since I discovered here though, so I'm not sure if it still is.

[sabotai]

I looked at the tactics section at the SI forum. Looks like all they do is "check out my tactics."

[DaddyTorgo]

The dugout has a lot of links to tactics. They also have old "tactics guides" by Marc V. that will at least be helpful for the general ideas. Particularly the CM4 ones I would say.

[cartman]

Has anyone found a "Diablo" style tactic yet in FM 05? It seems the AI does a much better job adjusting to tactics from game to game, and I haven't found any soft spots yet to exploit.

[Marc Vaughan]

No one seems to have found a 'cheat' tactic yet (phew ;) ) ...

Anyway back on track to the original queston ... here's some very crude rules of thumb.

Attack:
(1) If you've got small fast strikers then either play
* short/normal passing and lots of through balls on the ground. (this will mean fairly intricate passing followed by a burst of speed from a striker hopefully taking him through on goal).
Or
* If your midfield are quick thinking and have a decent range of passing (good decisions and passing) then consider trying direct/long passing and counter attack. (this will mean balls lobbed over the top for the striker to run onto)

Defense:
* If defenders are slow then defend in numbers (ie. defensive mentality or simply lots of men back in the tactics).
(Decisions and positioning can make up for lack of pace, however you will have to ensure that the defender isn't beaten as he'll never recover (ie. catch up with the opposition player)
* If defenders are fast then only allow them to roam forward if they have good decisions (otherwise they'll be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time frequently)

Set-pieces
* Always setup your set-pieces by hand, this can add 8-10 goals a season to a teams tally and can be the difference between promotion and a boring mid-table finish ..

One-man teams
* In the basement divisions you can often build a team around one talented individual (normally someone who was a youth at a big club and released) ... if you do this then DONT sell this player at any cost otherwise you'll find your club suddenly demoralised and out of their depth (selling a player affects both the fans and other squad members emotionally and if its obvious they're a one-man team this can devastate a team .... unless of course you're a very good manager ;) ).

[Marc Vaughan]

PS. Sorry for the garbled post - 'tis 8am here and I'm just getting ready to go to work ..

[FrogMan]

*fanboy hat on*
Very good advice Marc. Reading it, it just makes sense, but this game never ceases to amaze me, with the amount of things you can look out for when either setting up tactics or trying to get new players to complement each other... simply wow :)
*fanboy hat off*

Can I ask you what you mean by this:


Set-pieces
* Always setup your set-pieces by hand, this can add 8-10 goals a season to a teams tally and can be the difference between promotion and a boring mid-table finish ..

Do you mean not using the default ones? or using players to there strength, thus giving each of them individual orders? or do you simply mean picking a list of free kick tackers or going after good free kick takers? thanks in advance.

FM

[Critch]

Maybe a FOFC FM tactic share and discussion in the strategy section would be an idea?

I've noticed on some other FM/CM websites the tactics downloads are mainly "My tactic is great, I'm the best, I won the league with Man Utd using this" style, rather than a straightforward review of strengths and weaknesses with ideas of the type of team/players that would suit.

Can we do better?

[PilotMan]

I have had success in CM4 with some fairly simple tactics. Mainly just looking for position players with specific skill sets. Then being able to plug them in to the system.

I like to play a high pressure, attacking, offense with emphasis on stamina. I like my players to pressure the ball all over the field on defense. And to take the ball early.

I emphasize defenders who can take the ball, and defend well in the air. We sometimes get beat with a quick striker, but the other team rarely has the advantage in the air.

I let my wingers run deep for crosses. I like my entire midfield to be skilled ball handlers who can drive deep into the defense with their own skill, but usually attack with only 1 IM, having the other stay back and hold.

As far as strikers. I need to have at least 1 who is unstoppable in the air. Deadly on corners and able to take a long feed and get it to the other striker. I find that the best complimet is to have a natural left footed striker who can run, dribble and finish well. To many times, if he cant control the ball well enough the keeper will smother the ball before my striker can get a shot off. My big striker has to be able to shoot well too.

I have adjusted these from time to time, but it has enabled me to take Burton Albion out of the Conference to the Premiership in near consecutive seasons.

I like to hear what everyone else likes to do. It is always good when you are planning your team.

Another funny thing. I was approached to coach the US team in the middle of the Gold Cup. They wanted me to get to the semi's. Well I got to the finals, but lost to Brazil 5-3 with my crazy attacking tactics. I had dropped and added so many different players that I guess the powers that be got scared and fired me shortly after the loss. I sucks to exceed expectations then find yourself out on your ass anyway. I felt so used.

[Marc Vaughan]

Can I ask you what you mean by this:

Do you mean not using the default ones? or using players to there strength, thus giving each of them individual orders? or do you simply mean picking a list of free kick tackers or going after good free kick takers? thanks in advance.
FM
Basically what I meant was customising the set-pieces to facilitate your team and your wants.

For instance I've done the following in the past for corners:

* Team with at least a few tall players:
Put a player on each post and another couple in the middle of the area, tell any smaller people to either lurk outside the area or to stay back and cover (as your tall DC's are undoubtably going to be in the box)

* Team with no tall players
In these circumstances I generally lump a few players into the box (2-3 normally) and have the majorty on the edge of the area especially if they have decent long shots. Encourage high balls into the box to be played.
This will mean that if you're lucky the ball will be headed aimlessly out of the area (this will normally be the case, especially if you target your best player in the box with the cross) .... with luck one of your lurkers will get onto it and might have the chance for a snap-shot from distance through a crowded area (which means the goalkeepers visibility will be poor ... again if you're lucky).

* ALWAYS ensure you setup your set-piece takers sensible, also if playing in the lower divisions bear in mind the bias for foot that are likely to be the case (ie. left footed player taking a corner on the left of the pitch will tend to do 'out-swingers' naturally, right footed player will tend to do inswingers ... decide which you want, also bear in mind that for the more skillful players this isn't so important as the players are generally more flexible).

(sorry for not clarifying earlier - I was waiting for my daughter to bustle out the door to school before sprinting for my train, hence my rushed post)

[Marc Vaughan]

PS> Its an uncommonly known fact that a team is irl actually more likely to conceed a goal from one of their corners than they are to score one .... make sure you're sensible about the amount of people you keep back.

(and vice-versa, if you're defending a corner then keep a mind to a spring-board counter attack, keep a winger out wide as a potential target for clearances and a fast striker up the pitch ready for the chance to break)

[FrogMan]

Thanks a lot for clarifying, very, very helpful.

(sorry for not clarifying earlier - I was waiting for my daughter to bustle out the door to school before sprinting for my train, hence my rushed post)
I understand that very well, don't worry. I don't even turn on the computer before going to work, my wife would smack me behind the head if I would :D

FM

[Eilim]

Maybe a FOFC FM tactic share and discussion in the strategy section would be an idea?

I've noticed on some other FM/CM websites the tactics downloads are mainly "My tactic is great, I'm the best, I won the league with Man Utd using this" style, rather than a straightforward review of strengths and weaknesses with ideas of the type of team/players that would suit.

Can we do better?

I'd love to see something like this. I know I've always searched the web for more definitive tactics breakdowns. While I've seen a few quick breakdowns of the nature of "Use this tactic, and make sure you have a fast and talented AMC", etc. I'd really like to see something more along the lines of a tactic posted, and a position by position breakdown of what skills are needed/helpful at each(and every) position for it to be successful along with short explanations of why.

Granted, I'm a complete dunce when it comes to European football and want to see something like this to get a better understanding of many facets of the game that I just have no clue about now.. But I think something like this could lead to some interesting tactical discussions as people try out eachothers tactics/theories and discuss how than work and can be improved.


*sidenote: If someone does start discussions like this, I'm afraid I won't be more than an observer for a while as I'm truly just "winging" it tactically at this point and have very little clue what I'm doing. :)

[MikeVick7]

I'm still a beginner for the most part...but here are a few tips from what I've read or experienced in the game so far this year. Most of these are defensive tips...

1) Make sure that your DC's are good in the air. If not...you're dead.

2) Playing with a "narrow" width setting seems to help out tremendously with strikers busting through your back line for a goal on breakaways. It also seems to keep scoring down as a whole.

3) Also...pushing your defensive line up quite a bit cuts down on the other team camping out in your end of the pitch. I have mine pushed up one click from the max. This also can lead to giving up breakaways...but if your backline is decent they should be able to limit those chances.

4) I tend to play with a lot of my team settings right in the middle or "mixed." If you read the manual or the hints and tips guide it states that it allows the players to make more of their own decisions on whether to speed up or slow down...or pass it short or lob it down field. I find myself going back to these settings once I get in a funk and it allows my players to just play rather than me getting paranoid that I'm overcoaching in a sport that I should have no business coaching in. :) Then once I get back on the right track I'll start to tweak again.

5) I also like to go with a short passing attack. If you have decent passing midfielders combined with a slow to normal paced attack you should be able to win the possession battle. **Edit** Oh and finding players with good "off the ball" ratings helps you out a lot in the short passing attack as well.

[varacel]

[QUOTE=Marc Vaughan]
Defense:
QUOTE]

Surely just in MLS manager Marc

[condors]

when i get home i will do a complete write up of a basic 4-1-3-2 with a new team and do the settings based on the players,

then i can do a whole thing on "tweaking" it and why i did it, what i hoped would happen, and what actually happened

if people are interested maybe do a dynasty on it or something

[FrogMan]

Guys, I say why don't we keep it in here, this is the perfect thread. Already got quite a few things I want to try. As for me, I know how to screw it up, but I have realized one thing and it is that it looks easier for your players to play with closing down only on your end instead of all over. I used to put my players on closing down halfway to all over and since I've dropped it down to almost the half between the middle and the bottom of the slider, they respond much better...

FM

[sabotai]

when i get home i will do a complete write up of a basic 4-1-3-2 with a new team and do the settings based on the players,

then i can do a whole thing on "tweaking" it and why i did it, what i hoped would happen, and what actually happened

That would be awesome. And thanks for the advise everyone. I used the LLM "generator" website and it gave me Lofoten in Norway's Second Division Group 4.

One question (for Marc): When you say "tall players", are you talking about players with high jumping ratings? (because I don't see field for height or anything like that)

[MikeVick7]

That would be awesome. And thanks for the advise everyone. I used the LLM "generator" website and it gave me Lofoten in Norway's Second Division Group 4.

One question (for Marc): When you say "tall players", are you talking about players with high jumping ratings? (because I don't see field for height or anything like that)
It's basically players with good heading and jumping ratings. Oh and strength if you want it to be a big ol' brute.

[ISiddiqui]

when i get home i will do a complete write up of a basic 4-1-3-2 with a new team and do the settings based on the players,

then i can do a whole thing on "tweaking" it and why i did it, what i hoped would happen, and what actually happened

if people are interested maybe do a dynasty on it or something
4-1-3-2 (thumbs up)

So far, I've found it to be a GREAT formation!

[condors]

I started a game with barrow and was going over the players

wife pulling me away from the game atm but i will post the info and results asap

[Eaglesfan27]

4-1-3-2 (thumbs up)

So far, I've found it to be a GREAT formation!

I'm also a fan with the center midfielder racing up field to strongly support the attack.

[MikeVick7]

I also used to be a big fan of the DM helping out the back four but lately I have strayed away from that and just gone with a flat 4-4-2 and going with 2 mids and 2 wingers...all with attacking roles and I don't think my defense has suffered at all.

[Raven]

I'm another who has only been playing the game recently, and know little (well nothing) about European Football. I just finished my fourth season, but have noticed a definite improvement in my understanding of the game. Fired both of my first two seasons, I made the playoffs and just missed promotion in my second two seasons.

Playing in the English Conference North, I used to play with the 4-1-3-2, but now I favor the 5-3-2.

I'd love to hear other's tactics. There is so much in this game, I'm sure there's a ton of stuff that I still haven't even thought about yet.

[Glengoyne]

I really don't know that much about refining tactics. I simply watch my team during the match on the extended highlights setting, and try to correct what I see happening there. I think that says a lot for the match engine. It is accuarate enough that I can adjust tactics based on what it is displaying, and they seem to work. I don't know a whole lot about what the actual tactics settings do. I don't really know what closing down is, but I get the feeling that it effects the amount my guys pressure the ball. I don't know what differs between direct/normal/short/long passing. So I usually just play with mixed passing set. Sometimes I tell individual players to pass long, or short.

I'll try and describe the tactic I use mostly. It is aggressive, as I haven't seen any success going with a defensive approach. I guess it is essentially a 4-1-3-2. I set passing to mixed, closing down to all over the pitch, tackling to normal, marking to zonal. The team mentality is set to attacking, and the counter attack is on. I don't really do much else with the team settings.


The four defenders are arrayed evenly across the pitch, and I have backward arrows on the two central defenders, who are also playing a very defensive mentality. The side defenders are playing with a normal mentality.

I have a defensive mid fielder playing just behind the mid field line. He is set to play with a defensive mentality, but I do not assign a backward arrow to him(unless during a match, a team is really pressuring me). This is really a VERY important position for my tactic. This player is typically a good defender with high passing skills. I set him up to pass long. I have toyed with the "open" role here, but haven't seen much difference in play. This guy gets a pretty good number of assists, and "key" passes. He sort of QBs the offense.

The three midfielders are spread evenly with the wingers on the sides of the pitch with forward arrows all of the way forward. The MC is set with an arrow one position forward, sometimes two. Actually I have a player who is a good passer, and wins a lot of headers. When he plays the MC position I arrow him one position forward. Another of my players who sees this position a lot has a 20 in the long shot categeory. Well IF I don't assign him an arrow two positions ahead, then he will blast 40 yarders all day long, even with long shots off. I can't have that, so he is essentially a third striker. I set the wingers with attacking mentalities, run with ball, and try crosses. The MC I tell to try through balls, run with ball, "open" role, cross early, and give him the "gung-ho" mentality.

My two Strikers are placed well forward each on one side of the opposing team's penalty area. They are set with the attacking mentality, and I'm not sure that I do anything else special with them.


I score a heckuva lot with this tactic. In my current season in the English first division my team is 22-0-6. Lately though, the opposition is starting to slow me down. I've had probably 5 ties in my last seven games. This has happened to me before. I'll dominate the league to the middle of the season, and then just go into the tank during the second half. Last season I was a lot less dominant early, but still in second position at the midpoint, and then I fell out of even playoff contention, only tabbing something like 15 points in the whole second half of the season.

[Marc Vaughan]

It's basically players with good heading and jumping ratings. Oh and strength if you want it to be a big ol' brute.

Jumping is how high a player can jump, this can be impeded if he's up against a player with higher strength than himself.

Heading is how accurate/strong a players headers are generally speaking (hence a defender with great jumping and poor heading will get to do a lot of defensive headers but might not clear them to safe places)

Strength is used to barge people off the ball or impede their jumping ... be warned though that this can lead to fouls, especially for dirty or agressive players ..

[Marc Vaughan]

My two Strikers are placed well forward each on one side of the opposing team's penalty area. They are set with the attacking mentality, and I'm not sure that I do anything else special with them.
Generally speaking I play 'little and large' with my strikers, one small and nippy and the other a big lug (good jumping and heading) ...

The small one is told to run at the defense as much as possible and generally be a selfish-git, the tall one is told to hold up the ball and play through balls.

This combined with Direct passing or long ball leads to the bigger striker doing 'knock-ons' for the smaller striker to run with .... works great so long as:

* The opposition aren't tactically astute enough to leave your main striker alone (as most of his headers won't be coming from areas where he can do much but knock them on) - if they drop back and cover your nippy striker then he's pretty much nullified.
* Your nippy striker is good enough to actually trouble the opposition defense (nothing more frustrating than repeatedly watching the chap loose the ball - also bear in mind that this is frustrating for the player who will if not of a hard enough personality will simply give up the ghost during teh match in this situation).

[condors]

here is my 4-1-3-2 i am using barrow

Mentality
gk-1 (i don't want him going on a walkabout)
dl/dr- mentality 8
dc-both are them are at 4
dmc-8 seems enough to get long shots off (although i don't have one with good long shots)
mr mc ml 16 seems to be the magic number to be involved going forward if you get a standout talent in the lower leagues any one of these guys can dominate for your team
sc-20 i want these guys closest to the goal

creative freedom(i am not sure the effects exactly with this)
gk-dc-sc are all at 10
dr dl dmc are at 12
ml mc mr are at 16

passing i don't have a target man in the squad that i can use direct passing to so i am using short passing although i do have 2 very pacey strikers.
I put everyone on a 6 passing this will be tweaked if i can get some decent passers and a target man.

Closing down(my perception is where they will try to win the ball)
gk dc dc-6 in own area
dl dr- 7 in own half
dmc-10 in own half
ml mc mr-16 (all over)
sc-20 - all over

i have all but my 2 dc and 2 sc and GK on hard tackling (not sure it will help them), those guy are at normal

forward runs dl dr often
dc=rarely
dmc=mixed
mr mc ml sc= often

run with ball
dc and dmc rarely
dl dr mixed
ml mc mr and sc-often

dc rarely
rest=mixed

thru balls
dc rarely
gk dl dr mixed
ml mc mr sc often

cross ball
rare for dc
mixed for mc and sc
often for wide players

cross aim and from is mixed for now

marking have 2 dc in man marking the rest of team is zone

i don't have a player talented enough to entrust with a free role or hold up the ball

My experince with this tactic is my 4 midfielders determine the success of my team more than anything else, which is where i try to get season long loans. They create the offense and do the majority of regaining possesion.

[Glengoyne]

Generally speaking I play 'little and large' with my strikers, one small and nippy and the other a big lug (good jumping and heading) ...
...

I'll have to try that sometime. My problem is that I have pretty much a whole crew of small and nippy stirkers. I have one that wins a good number of headers, but he is currently injured. The only other attacking player I have that can win more than the rare header is the Center Midfielder I have trying through balls to my strikers. He works pretty much exactly as you describe it.

A question I have about the "hold up ball" part of your big striker's instructions. I am afraid if I tell this player to hold up the ball, that it will hamper my quick counter attacking offense.

I don't really want to slow my attack up. It seems most of my goals come when my players are moving in open space. I often see an assault on goal break down with a slew of defenders and attackers all in the penalty area, say after a blocked shot and rebound. Even if my guys control the ball in those situations, we almost never even get a shot on goal.

[FrogMan]

Got a question for you all, regarding tempo in the team instructions screen. How do you use it? I mean do you even touch it, and if so, against what team do you feel the need to tweak it?

FM

edit to clarify: Do you feel the need to tweak the tempo if you play a team that your scout says is quick, or that has a pacey attack, or such? Do you counter their speed with more spee, or try to slow down the tempo?

[condors]

I start the game with a tempo around 12-14 and try to get a lead. If i do get a lead then i will tone it down. If i am behind i will bring in some fresh legs and crank it up to try to get an equalizer.

It seems slower tempo allows you to keep the ball more but maybe not create as many chances on goal.

[Marc Vaughan]

Incidentally something which might interest people is that I actually play fairly negative tactics with my teams most of the time which is contrary to most CM/FM players ... I get a strange satisfaction out of grinding out 1-0 victories, probably partially because I play (badly) in defense irl ...

If you're having a bad-patch with attacking tactics, don't underestimate the power that a hard fought draw or win can have on depressed players - if it takes going negative and shutting up shop, so be it.

My Cambridge City team might not have made many friends by playing a grinding dour style of play, but we've risen the divisions fairly rapidly and this is despite the playing staff not really keeping pace with the level of play to the extent I'd like (exceptions being our wonderful goalkeeper, one decent defender, two decent wingers).

[Glengoyne]

Incidentally something which might interest people is that I actually play fairly negative tactics with my teams most of the time which is contrary to most CM/FM players ... I get a strange satisfaction out of grinding out 1-0 victories, probably partially because I play (badly) in defense irl ...

If you're having a bad-patch with attacking tactics, don't underestimate the power that a hard fought draw or win can have on depressed players - if it takes going negative and shutting up shop, so be it.

My Cambridge City team might not have made many friends by playing a grinding dour style of play, but we've risen the divisions fairly rapidly and this is despite the playing staff not really keeping pace with the level of play to the extent I'd like (exceptions being our wonderful goalkeeper, one decent defender, two decent wingers).
Negative tactics. Can you elaborate a bit. Especially for us foreigners. I watched 45 minutes of a match the other day where the announcers talked continually about how one team was dominating possession. I had come to assume it was one team, That team certainly appeared to have control of the ball all the time, then someone scored, and I realized I had the teams backwards. So I apparently can't identify negative tactics when I see them on the field in RL, let alone in a game. Actually in CM, I assume a team is playing keep away from me when I get almost no highlights in a half.

Also everytime I try to play defensively, the ball seems to stay on my end of the pitch which only typically turns into more scoring opportunities for the opponent. I've gotten to the point where I consider a good offense the best defense. It keeps the ball at the right end of the pitch as far as I am concerned.

[MikeVick7]

Incidentally something which might interest people is that I actually play fairly negative tactics with my teams most of the time which is contrary to most CM/FM players ... I get a strange satisfaction out of grinding out 1-0 victories, probably partially because I play (badly) in defense irl ...

If you're having a bad-patch with attacking tactics, don't underestimate the power that a hard fought draw or win can have on depressed players - if it takes going negative and shutting up shop, so be it.

My Cambridge City team might not have made many friends by playing a grinding dour style of play, but we've risen the divisions fairly rapidly and this is despite the playing staff not really keeping pace with the level of play to the extent I'd like (exceptions being our wonderful goalkeeper, one decent defender, two decent wingers).
Sometimes these negative or in other words...defensive??...tactics provide more offense than if you had a attacking mentality. I have a 4-4-2 that I use and if I'm on the road I will play with more of a defensive mentality and sometimes that allows your team to get more chances on goal because it's so effective against what your opponent is doing.

[MikeVick7]

If you're giving up too much possession in your end...especially against a team that isn't any better than yours...try and push your defensive line up quite a bit. If your D-Line is just sitting back there will be a gap in between it and your attacking players which will allow the opposing team space to operate. Sometimes when you're playing a much better opponent there isn't much you can do just because you're getting outclassed. But give the defensive line thing a try.

[Desnudo]

Negative tactics. Can you elaborate a bit. Especially for us foreigners. I watched 45 minutes of a match the other day where the announcers talked continually about how one team was dominating possession. I had come to assume it was one team, That team certainly appeared to have control of the ball all the time, then someone scored, and I realized I had the teams backwards. So I apparently can't identify negative tactics when I see them on the field in RL, let alone in a game. Actually in CM, I assume a team is playing keep away from me when I get almost no highlights in a half.

Also everytime I try to play defensively, the ball seems to stay on my end of the pitch which only typically turns into more scoring opportunities for the opponent. I've gotten to the point where I consider a good offense the best defense. It keeps the ball at the right end of the pitch as far as I am concerned.

Negative tactics basically means packing your end with players and denying the other team space to operate in the final third or half. It also means knocking the ball around a lot between your midfielders and defenders, playing the ball back a lot. In doing so, you sacrifice offensive push and you generate fewer chances.

[daedalus]

Generally speaking I play 'little and large' with my strikers, one small and nippy and the other a big lug (good jumping and heading) ...

The small one is told to run at the defense as much as possible and generally be a selfish-git, the tall one is told to hold up the ball and play through balls.

This combined with Direct passing or long ball leads to the bigger striker doing 'knock-ons' for the smaller striker to run with .... works great so long as:

* The opposition aren't tactically astute enough to leave your main striker alone (as most of his headers won't be coming from areas where he can do much but knock them on) - if they drop back and cover your nippy striker then he's pretty much nullified.
* Your nippy striker is good enough to actually trouble the opposition defense (nothing more frustrating than repeatedly watching the chap loose the ball - also bear in mind that this is frustrating for the player who will if not of a hard enough personality will simply give up the ghost during teh match in this situation).Sven? :D

[Marc Vaughan]

Negative tactics basically means packing your end with players and denying the other team space to operate in the final third or half. It also means knocking the ball around a lot between your midfielders and defenders, playing the ball back a lot. In doing so, you sacrifice offensive push and you generate fewer chances.
Thats exactly it - however if you have the right team and setup for it these fewer chances can be more clear cut and lead to more goals than attacking football.

This style of football is normally especially sucessful if you're being pressed hard by an attacking team, keep at least one winger out forward and wide and a fast striker ready to run through on goal ... tell the winger to play deep crosses and through balls and the striker to run with the ball and make forward runs.

If your defending players are astute enough (and you can help this by telling them to play the ball out wide) then they'll pass to the free winger who will then attempt to either push down pitch himself or ping balls onto the striker.

[Raven]

Can somebody give a little tutorial on through balls? Like...

What skills you look for in player that try them often (midfielders and fullbacks).
Certain positions that you like to play them from.
Other tactics that complement them well.
Better against bad/avg/good opponents?


Basically I just set all my fullbacks to try them often. I know this isn't very 'tactical' but not sure what a better tactic would be here.

thanks.

[condors]

Well it depends on your team,

With Barrow i had a couple pacey strikers but neither where good in the air with all of my midfielders put thru balls they could run onto the ball and get a 1 on 1 with the oppstion keeper. Works great as soon as you gain posession from the other team. Problem is if the opposition isn't caught my team would sometimes lose poession trying to pass the ball when in a good spot to try to shot on goal. (although they normally shot wide anyways)

By the way i won the league in my first season with Barrow although i sometimes played a 5-3-2 depending on who wasn't tired. (with the fullbacks coming way forward acting like wingers) I also used a 1 striker tactic when i needed to rest my 2 speedy strikers. I still used the principles of the above tactic i just didn't always have the bodies to play the proper formation and adjusted the tactic instead of playing guys of out postion.

[Marc Vaughan]

Can somebody give a little tutorial on through balls? Like...
A lot depends on the players and system you are attempting to create, I've generally used them as follows:

* Creative midfielders
If you have a creative midfielder with decent passing then ask him to try and slot through balls to the strikers. This will make him try and open the defense up with incisive balls for your strikers/wingers to run onto.

* Tall strikers
If you have a decent target man (high strength, jumping, heading) then tell him to stay put in his position, hold up the ball and play through balls - then indicate that the team should use him as a target man and he should feed any high balls down to smaller hopefully nippied players playing along side him.

If you don't have any suitable players for these sort of roles then I'd suggest NOT attempting to make too many through balls - perhaps instead concentrating on crosses from the wings?

[Raven]

* Tall strikers
If you have a decent target man (high strength, jumping, heading) then tell him to stay put in his position, hold up the ball and play through balls - then indicate that the team should use him as a target man and he should feed any high balls down to smaller hopefully nippied players playing along side him.


-I'm not really following this. First let me get something right......
Playmakers are basically guys who go all out to score right? So a playmaker is the guy you target with offensive passe, because he is your 'big scorer' so to speak?
-While Targetmen are the guys you get the ball to and allow them to distribute the ball for offensive opportunities? Targetmen are basically your assists guys, correct? (Like Point guards in basketball).
-That's my interpretation from the manual, and often confuses me beause it's the opposite of American sports slang.


If that is correct, then

If you have a decent target man (high strength, jumping, heading) then tell him to stay put in his position, hold up the ball and play through balls

1. Why do targetmen need to be the good heading type? I could see why you want a good header to receive the ball, but why would you need those skills from the guy who distrubutes it?

2. What do you mean by "tell a player to stay put in his position"? No yellow arrows advancing?

3. Nippied players? Do you mean the quick, agile type? The gets who can slip past a defender on the break and create a one-on-one with the keeper?


thanks.

[daedalus]

I'm a newbie when it comes to soccer as well but I'll toss in my two cents with the best of my understanding:Playmakers are basically guys who go all out to score right? So a playmaker is the guy you target with offensive passe, because he is your 'big scorer' so to speak?Think point guard. Your playmaker creates. Yeah, they may score as well but their job should be creating.-While Targetmen are the guys you get the ball to and allow them to distribute the ball for offensive opportunities? Targetmen are basically your assists guys, correct? (Like Point guards in basketball).Think center but of the high post variety. Somebody to toss the ball to who'll send it off to the little guys running on by.-That's my interpretation from the manual, and often confuses me beause it's the opposite of American sports slang.Darn Brits! :D1. Why do targetmen need to be the good heading type? I could see why you want a good header to receive the ball, but why would you need those skills from the guy who distrubutes it?Don't know if you watch team USA or not, but if you do, look at how Brian McBride sets up with his back to the goal and nods the high ball down to Landon Donovan.3. Nippied players? Do you mean the quick, agile type? The gets who can slip past a defender on the break and create a one-on-one with the keeper?Yeah, 'em lil' quick fellas.

[Marc Vaughan]

2. What do you mean by "tell a player to stay put in his position"? No yellow arrows advancing?
daedalus has covered most of your questions so I'll just pick this one up.

By this I mean don't give him run with ball (in his player instructions), this means when he gets the ball he'll be more likely to look to lay it off ...

Generally in my teams these players are pretty naff technically (ie. low dribbling, off the ball etc.) so I tend to just tell them to stand in one place and wait until the ball hits them on the head (ie. no forward runs, no arrows on overview etc.).

This prevents them trying to be clever and getting caught offside or tackled ..

Hope this helps,

Marc

[Raven]

That makes a lot of sense, and is more in line with my original thinking. Thanks Daedalus.

The manual is confusing with those two terms, as it makes it sound more like my last post, than what they really mean. Maybe that's just my soccer ignorance speaking though.

I'll give that stuff a shot.

What about defenders, do you guys recommending trying through balls with them?>

[Marc Vaughan]

What about defenders, do you guys recommending trying through balls with them?>
Generally speaking unless a defender is extremely comfortable on the ball I'd suggest not doing this, bear in mind that they'll often be the last line of defense for your team so if they try a risky pass and its intercepted then you're in trouble ...

What I tend to do with defenders is push them up for corners if they're good at jumping (and tell your short players to fall back as cover) and also allow any who are good at long shots to take a pop now and then ...

[Marc Vaughan]

PS. One use of through balls which has worked for me is giving it to a good defensive midfielder who players slightly in advance of your defensive line, have him act as an outlet and hold up the ball with through balls on.

He'll need to be fairly strong physically as he'll often be put under pressure, but if he's good enough he'll act as a distributor for the team and ping the ball to attacking players and setting up attacks (works especially well if you're counter attacking - IF he's a fast thinker and has a good passing range so he can hit long balls to any players who are breaking).

[daedalus]

Generally in my teams these players are pretty naff technically"Naff"? Darn Brits. :DPS. One use of through balls which has worked for me is giving it to a good defensive midfielder who players slightly in advance of your defensive line, have him act as an outlet and hold up the ball with through balls on.

He'll need to be fairly strong physically as he'll often be put under pressure, but if he's good enough he'll act as a distributor for the team and ping the ball to attacking players and setting up attacks (works especially well if you're counter attacking - IF he's a fast thinker and has a good passing range so he can hit long balls to any players who are breaking).I've often wondered about that particular combination of settings. Just trying to understand: So he'll get the ball and hold onto it ("Hold Up Ball") - regardless of whether he tries to run with it or not (different setting) - then tries to look for a pass into space for attackers to run to ("Through Ball")? Is this correct? It sounds like this player would be a particularly good candidate for the "Playmaker" setting as well, is that correct?

[MikeVick7]

I think you kind of want your Playmaker to not only get the ball but then push it upfield much like the point guard position mentioned in an earlier post. Your point guard on a bball team has the best ball handling skills...so if you have a player on your team that is exceptional in ball handling then you want to think about setting him as your Playmaker. If you don't have this kind of player then I wouldn't worry about using it.

Where as a Target Man would be like your high post guy who would hold up the ball and dish it off to a streaking little man. Think of a Target Man as Bill Walton. :) You wouldn't want Bill Walton bringing the ball upcourt for you.

So basically the difference in the two is where you want each player to get the ball. You would want your Playmaker to get the ball in your defensive end and push it up. Meanwhile your Target Man would not touch it until your on the offensive side...so that is why it's said that you should try and lob one up to him downfield and then he can head it off to a nearby player.

[Lucky Jim]

Some of these analogies about point guards and such don't really work. Basically setting someone as a playmaker tells your team that you want to get that person the ball and allow them to set up your attacks. In this sense they're a lot like a point guard, but the player's passing, decisions, creativity, anticipation, and probably a number of other skills would be more important than they're dribbling ability. Your playmaker is going to be a midfielder, most likely an attacking one, that receives the ball and quickly decides the best place to funnel an attack. A target man is going to be a forward that can win balls in the air. The general idea behind using a target man is that he is a player capable of winning a long or direct ball in the air and maintaining possession or flicking the ball on to teammates. If you're playing a slow tempo, short passing, build up your attacks kind of game then the target man approach is probably less important, and utilizing a playmaker might be moreso as you'll want your more methodical attacks to be controlled by a highly skilled player. If you have one of the big intimidating guys described in earlier posts (high jumping, heading, and strength) using him as a target man can save you a lot of trouble by allowing you to cross from deep or play longer balls forward without simply giving away possession, and without having to slowly pick your way through the entire length of the field. In this way having a target man type player can be an incredible boost to your team but in the same way using a player that isn't really a target man as a target man is going to destroy your attacks as you're playing balls forward to someone that can't win or maintain possession. I know a lot of this was kind of covered earlier but this was something I had trouble understanding for a while and thinking about like this helped me.

[daedalus]

Some of these analogies about point guards and such don't really work. Basically setting someone as a playmaker tells your team that you want to get that person the ball and allow them to set up your attacks. In this sense they're a lot like a point guard, but the player's passing, decisions, creativity, anticipation, and probably a number of other skills would be more important than they're dribbling ability. Your playmaker is going to be a midfielder, most likely an attacking one, that receives the ball and quickly decides the best place to funnel an attack.So . . . your main argument against the analogy of playmaker-point guard is the lack of necessity of dribbling ability by a playmaker in footie? I can think of three oodles worth of basketball players, past and present, who can out-dribble Earvin Johnson and I can't think of any I'd prefer as my point guard.

[MikeVick7]

Yeah a point guard doesn't necessarily have to be defined by his dribbling ability. They usually lead their team in assists too. I think the point guard analogy works just fine here. Plus we're just trying to help further explain what a soccer playmaker is.

[Raven]

Thanks guys, good stuff here. Very helpful to me, and others who are still new to the game.


I was thinking the same thing about a targetman. Maybe a DM who the defenders pushed the ball on to, then let him send through balls up to the attackers. You guys say that is a bad idea, because tartgetmen only work on the offensive half of the pitch?

[MikeVick7]

Thanks guys, good stuff here. Very helpful to me, and others who are still new to the game.


I was thinking the same thing about a targetman. Maybe a DM who the defenders pushed the ball on to, then let him send through balls up to the attackers. You guys say that is a bad idea, because tartgetmen only work on the offensive half of the pitch?
Yeah your DM would work better as a Playmaker as long as he had the necessary passing skills...among others. Think of a Target Man as more of a big strong forward with good heading...jumping and strength.

[FrogMan]

Think of a Target Man as more of a big strong forward with good heading...jumping and strength.your definition of a target man is about the same as the one I go with. For example, I use this guy as my target man (click on thumbnail to see his profile):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/QcFrogMan/FM2005/th_070428kaviedes.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/QcFrogMan/FM2005/070428kaviedes.jpg)

So anyone can confirm that he is indeed a good target man? I think so, just want to validate my thinking/evaluation of the guy... He has good heading, finishing, passing, has good first touch/technique, is good off the ball and very creative. On top of it all, he's fairly strong. I don't care so much that he has no pace, as I only want him to sit in space, around the edge of the box or so and either turn around and kick one for long range, pass it around, or head it in on corners... Let me know what you think of him. Thanks in advance!

FM

[Lucky Jim]

So . . . your main argument against the analogy of playmaker-point guard is the lack of necessity of dribbling ability by a playmaker in footie? I can think of three oodles worth of basketball players, past and present, who can out-dribble Earvin Johnson and I can't think of any I'd prefer as my point guard.

Geez I was responding to this:

I think you kind of want your Playmaker to not only get the ball but then push it upfield much like the point guard position mentioned in an earlier post. Your point guard on a bball team has the best ball handling skills...so if you have a player on your team that is exceptional in ball handling then you want to think about setting him as your Playmaker. If you don't have this kind of player then I wouldn't worry about using it.

And I thought it was kind of leading things in the wrong direction. I think MikeVick knows what he's talking about, I just thought the analogy was being stretched too far and would confuse people that were having trouble.

*shuts up*

[MikeVick7]

Yes...I think that is a very good example. The forward that I use as a Target Man fits the same description and he does wonders for me up front. I'm in year 2015...but the guy I use is Mike Hanke from Germany.

Heading - 20
Jumping - 16
Strength - 14
Off the Ball - 20

This guy is a monster for me.

[Lucky Jim]

So anyone can confirm that he is indeed a good target man?

Yeah that looks like the definition of a target man. With that low pace he's probably not going to be effective any other way.

[MikeVick7]

Geez I was responding to this:



And I thought it was kind of leading things in the wrong direction. I think MikeVick knows what he's talking about, I just thought the analogy was being stretched too far and would confuse people that were having trouble.

*shuts up*
My bad too Jim. I thought you were kinda referring to my post as well. We're on the same track for the most part.

[Glengoyne]

PS. One use of through balls which has worked for me is giving it to a good defensive midfielder who players slightly in advance of your defensive line, have him act as an outlet and hold up the ball with through balls on.

He'll need to be fairly strong physically as he'll often be put under pressure, but if he's good enough he'll act as a distributor for the team and ping the ball to attacking players and setting up attacks (works especially well if you're counter attacking - IF he's a fast thinker and has a good passing range so he can hit long balls to any players who are breaking).

This is almost exactly how my 442 transformed into a 4132. I had a defensive midfielder with great passing skills, so I just pulled him back a little bit, and positioned him between my midfielders and defenders. He gets a good number of Key Passes and assists. I have found that his skillset is difficult to replace with a single backup. When he is injured or my I need to rest him, the team just isn't the same.

[Raven]

What about Free Role? Anyone want to define that? What kind of players are good in that role?

[rexallllsc]

Yes...I think that is a very good example. The forward that I use as a Target Man fits the same description and he does wonders for me up front. I'm in year 2015...but the guy I use is Mike Hanke from Germany.

Heading - 20
Jumping - 16
Strength - 14
Off the Ball - 20

This guy is a monster for me.

What are his #s? Post Screens! :)

[Marc Vaughan]

Just reached a new record for red cards in a game! .... had 4 men sent off during one match, one after 15 minutes, all the rest before 60 minutes.

With 10 men I managed to grab a goal on the break and go 1-0 up, after 30 minutes I was down to 9 men ... held on until the 50th minute when they equalised, after 56 minutes I was down to 8 men, then in the 60th minute I gave away a penalty and was down to 7 men ....


Lost 4-1 in the end, the final 30 minutes were truly surreal with my team playing backs to the wall defending with no players far enough out to allow us a break from the pressure ...

(small consolation was that the opposition had a man sent off in the 75th minute)

Really wanted to complain about the standard of refereeing after the match .... incompetant fool ;)

[MikeVick7]

What are his #s? Post Screens! :)
Here's a screenshot of my Target Man.

http://img152.exs.cx/img152/4016/hanke7up.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=hanke7up.jpg)

Takin a page out of Frogman's book by posting the screenshot. :)

[MikeVick7]

Just reached a new record for red cards in a game! .... had 4 men sent off during one match, one after 15 minutes, all the rest before 60 minutes.

With 10 men I managed to grab a goal on the break and go 1-0 up, after 30 minutes I was down to 9 men ... held on until the 50th minute when they equalised, after 56 minutes I was down to 8 men, then in the 60th minute I gave away a penalty and was down to 7 men ....


Lost 4-1 in the end, the final 30 minutes were truly surreal with my team playing backs to the wall defending with no players far enough out to allow us a break from the pressure ...

(small consolation was that the opposition had a man sent off in the 75th minute)

Really wanted to complain about the standard of refereeing after the match .... incompetant fool ;)
Who was the referee? It seems like the referee named T. Boyle???...I may be way off on the name. But it seems like he is very quick with the yellow cards whenever he refs my matches.

[Ajaxab]

Just reached a new record for red cards in a game! .... had 4 men sent off during one match, one after 15 minutes, all the rest before 60 minutes.

With 10 men I managed to grab a goal on the break and go 1-0 up, after 30 minutes I was down to 9 men ... held on until the 50th minute when they equalised, after 56 minutes I was down to 8 men, then in the 60th minute I gave away a penalty and was down to 7 men ....


Lost 4-1 in the end, the final 30 minutes were truly surreal with my team playing backs to the wall defending with no players far enough out to allow us a break from the pressure ...

(small consolation was that the opposition had a man sent off in the 75th minute)

Really wanted to complain about the standard of refereeing after the match .... incompetant fool ;)

This kind of officiating demonstrates why we need the 'complain about a match official' option in FM. Even if hardly ever any referees got dismissed in the past, there is something therapeutic about letting the national association know about how my team has been jobbed.

[rexallllsc]

Here's a screenshot of my Target Man.

http://img152.exs.cx/img152/4016/hanke7up.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=hanke7up.jpg)

Takin a page out of Frogman's book by posting the screenshot. :)

nice #s. I'm gonna show off a few of my guys (even though they were on my team when they started) in another thread!

[ISiddiqui]

Here's a screenshot of my Target Man.

http://img152.exs.cx/img152/4016/hanke7up.th.jpg (http://img152.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img152&image=hanke7up.jpg)

Takin a page out of Frogman's book by posting the screenshot. :)
Btw, I have a 'Barclay's Premierleague' icon downloaded, and tried to get it in the game calling it epl.png and putting it in the Competitons folder under English, but it won't show up... how did you get yours in?

[MikeVick7]

Btw, I have a 'Barclay's Premierleague' icon downloaded, and tried to get it in the game calling it epl.png and putting it in the Competitons folder under English, but it won't show up... how did you get yours in?
To get your Barclay's logo to show up you have to put it here:

data/graphics/pictures/clubs/eng/premiership

If you just have the logo...then I think you may have to create the premiership folder.

This is where I just downloaded the entire premiership folder:

http://www.sortitoutsi.net/index.php?page=downloads&area=file&fileid=594

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, I got the logo, I guess I just have to create the folder... thanks :D.

Should I call it epl.png as well?

Edit: I already have an EPL folder (Called epl) where my kits and stuff are in... I just put it in there.

[MikeVick7]

Yeah, I got the logo, I guess I just have to create the folder... thanks :D.

Should I call it epl.png as well?

Edit: I already have an EPL folder (Called epl) where my kits and stuff are in... I just put it in there.
The one that I have is called premiership.png

[ISiddiqui]

WOOT! Premiership.png worked :D. I guess I was too smart for my own good. I moved that one earlier, thinking it needed to be somewhere else!

[Raven]

Free Role?

Anybody?

[MikeVick7]

I'm at work so I'm probably gonna botch this...but a free role would be used for a midfielder/winger...or a fast striker that has tremendous offensive skills. I think I read somewhere that someone that is on a free role doesn't worry as much about the defensive side of things and has so much offensive talent that they can rome the pitch so they are ready to attack. I think a high Creativity and Off the Ball ratings are essential among others.

[SirFozzie]

Well.. quick description (mostly because of the pain)

In American Football, everything's pretty well regimented. You run THIS pattern, make the cut at this many yards deep, you cover this area..

A free role would be someone, almost like a 2nd QB. Their job is to be the wild card. To take advantage of what they see.

Example, the Middle Linebacker on defense could be considered a free role type position. Depending on how he reads the play, he could blitz, move up for a run stop, shadow the QB, or drop back into coverage.

A Free Role doesn't have any real instructions from you, just told to go out there and do what he considers necessary.

My three key abilities, off hand.

Creativity.
Decisions.
Off the Ball.

Also helps if they have good dribbling and passing skills, to take care of what they see offensively, and good Marking/Tackling skills for defensive work.

[Marc Vaughan]

Free role is basically someone who's given a licence to ad-lib and do what they think is best, they'll roam more from their pitch position than they would normally and might take bigger risks than a 'normal' player ...

As such unless you have someone who is 100% a great player (compared to the level you're playing at) use this option at your own risk - basically give it to the wrong sort of player and he'll always be in the right place at the wrong time...

[SunDancer]

I asked this question over in EF's dynasty, and though I post it here:

Everytime you appear you TV, do you receive a fee, or is it done on the year regardless of how many times you make the TV? Also, do television apperances have any other effect expect the television money?

[Marc Vaughan]

I asked this question over in EF's dynasty, and though I post it here:

Everytime you appear you TV, do you receive a fee, or is it done on the year regardless of how many times you make the TV? Also, do television apperances have any other effect expect the television money?
It depends entirely on the league you're playing in as each has different rules concerning your TV team.

In the UK most deals (there are different ones for each of the Premiership, Nationwise Leagues (Championship - Div 2) and Conference) involve TV money in a lump sum and also a smaller payment for individual televised matches. In addition to this Cup matches recieve a seperate individual payment.

[SunDancer]

It depends entirely on the league you're playing in as each has different rules concerning your TV team.

In the UK most deals (there are different ones for each of the Premiership, Nationwise Leagues (Championship - Div 2) and Conference) involve TV money in a lump sum and also a smaller payment for individual televised matches. In addition to this Cup matches recieve a seperate individual payment.

Thanks Marc. Does TV games have an effect on the players, coaches?

[Marc Vaughan]

Thanks Marc. Does TV games have an effect on the players, coaches?
It adds extra pressure on all people involved in the match (including the officials).

[Icy]

It adds extra pressure on all people involved in the match (including the officials).

Awesome how you at SI take care of all the small but important details :)