NASCAR = Next NHL?

[Easy Mac]

I was having this conversation with my bro-in-law the other day who is a huge NASCAR fan. He loves it, but he's not too happy that it seems to be abandoning its roots. The races are moving out of the South into more lucrative areas. I just think NASCAR is forgetting who the real fans are, just like the NHL. The NHL had a serious boom in the 80's, and exploded in popularity. It expanded far too much and forgot about its key fans. But after about 10 years it settled into a smaller niche in the sports marketplace, but it is now unwilling to adjust to the reality that its real fans are caring little, and the new fans it got don't care at all.

Does anyone else see this happening to NASCAR? Its completely trying to get rid of its Southern "yokel" image and expanding into larger cities. I just see that in about 5 years or so it will peak, but the people who are used to the money won't adjust and realize that they need to get back to what made it boom in the first place. I just think its an NHL waiting to happen.

This isn't meant at a slight to NASCAR fans, but a look at what I see as a group who wants to rid itself of a stigma that I think it needs to survive.

[spleen1015]

I think the sports are too different to make this comparison.

[SunDancer]

Your talking about 36 races all over the country, as compared to 40-some games a team plays at home, and 40 more on the road, not including the playoffs.

[Ragone]

Thats two totally different situtations.. each racing team is its own entity.. rather then the nhl teams making up one giant entity..

[Easy Mac]

SO you're saying each NASCAR team has its own TV contract?

[RPI-Fan]

I just think NASCAR is forgetting who the real fans are

Well, I haven't forgotten... rednecks.

[Easy Mac]

dola, NHL teams have their own sponsors, but they still have to answer to the NHL for major sponsors. Even NASCAR is trying to take that aspect away from each team (see all the problems with the winners last year). I don't see how anything is different. NHL teams each have owners who report to the NHL. So does NASCAR. Each NHL team hires players. Each NASCAR team hires racers.

[Ragone]

SO you're saying each NASCAR team has its own TV contract?

Are you saying each/every nhl team has its own tv contract?

Nascar teams sell advertising on their cars/pit crew uniforms.. i can't wait for the day when pro sports teams do like what european soccer teams do :)

[Easy Mac]

Are you saying each/every nhl team has its own tv contract?

Nascar teams sell advertising on their cars/pit crew uniforms.. i can't wait for the day when pro sports teams do like what european soccer teams do :)
Though I can't say for sure, I do believe each NHL team does negotiate some form of local tv rights (though I may be mistaking).

And NHL sponsoring comes from adboards, local sponsorships, naming rights (I see that as similar to selling the "naming rights" to a car (the bud car, viagra car...).

[TLK]

Well, I haven't forgotten... rednecks.
Call them what you want.... but they support their sport a hell of a lot better than hockey fans.....

[Easy Mac]

Call them what you want.... but they support their sport a hell of a lot better than hockey fans.....
well, lets be clear... hockey fans are northern rednecks, nascar fans are southern rednecks :)

[Ragone]

Except right now, the only people who would sponsor a nhl team are probably bankruptcy lawyers :)

[SunDancer]

Though I can't say for sure, I do believe each NHL team does negotiate some form of local tv rights (though I may be mistaking).

And NHL sponsoring comes from adboards, local sponsorships, naming rights (I see that as similar to selling the "naming rights" to a car (the bud car, viagra car...).

Big difference. NASCAR's sponsors are seen all over the place, nationally, and they are plugged 30-some times a weekend for a few hours on National TV with high ratings, and plugged all over the place. How often do you seen that kind of exposure for a local sponsor of a NHL team. Plus, they have the type of marketing that NHL or even any other sports entity has.

[SunDancer]

dola...

NASCAR could possibly get into a situation like Formula One, in the controlling aspects of the series and the growing cost structure on the weaker teams. But they'll never hit the fan like the NHL.

[TLK]

dola...

NASCAR could possibly get into a situation like Formula One, in the controlling aspects of the series and the growing cost structure on the weaker teams. But they'll never hit the fan like the NHL.
NASCAR will never get into a situation like F-1. The series isn't as hi-tech, which in itself will keep the entry costs low. Plus, NASCAR has the France family, which is smarter than any other racing dictatorship that I've seen....

[Buzzbee]

Your comparison is a little off Easy. A better comparison would be an NHL team like Quebec or Minnesota moving from a smaller market where attendance was declining to a larger market where there is more opportunity for revenue. NASCAR is moving races from smaller, saturated markets (Darlington, SC; Rockingham NC) to larger less developed markets (Texas, Kansas, Chicago, California). They aren't abandoning their core fans. Yes, they may lose some local fans in the markets where they no longer race, but NASCAR will still have its core races and core fans.

Personally I feel that Hockey's biggest issue was with how the television contracts were handled several years ago. IIRC there was a period where the games weren't broadcast in the U.S. and if they were, it was only sporadically. I also feel that the NHL got a little greedy and expanded too quickly into markets where they probably shouldn't have. Atlanta, Phoenix, Columbus, and Raleigh come to mind.

As for NASCAR, yes, it will probably peak at some point in the not too distant future, but it will be different from the NHL in that it moving to different tracks won't alienate fans. Changes in the competition is the most likely reason that people will move away (rules changes such as the way the points system works, emergence of dominant teams, spiraling costs resulting in fewer competitors, etc.)

Of course that's all just my opinion.

[Easy Mac]

So, moving from smaller, saturated markets in NASCAR isn't the same as moving from smaller, saturated markets in the NHL?

I think there are a lot of fans (especially those around the older races that are now gone) would disagree that they are losing core races.

[TLK]

worst comes to worst.....

It's a lot easier to move a race back, than it is an entire hockey franchise....

[Easy Mac]

i'd disagree. The amount of work and money it would take to get a track back to working condition for a NASCAR race wouldn't simple.

[TLK]

the tracks they're moving from still have one race... they have to keep their tracks up to racing standards...

[flere-imsaho]

Your talking about 36 races all over the country, as compared to 40-some games a team plays at home, and 40 more on the road, not including the playoffs.

I think this is the crux of the matter.

[Buzzbee]

So, moving from smaller, saturated markets in NASCAR isn't the same as moving from smaller, saturated markets in the NHL?

I think there are a lot of fans (especially those around the older races that are now gone) would disagree that they are losing core races.No, they aren't the same. One or two races a year vs. 40 games a year. No "home" team or "away" team. 43 competitors vs. 2 competitors. There are numerous differences.

Check the attendance figures for Rockingham and compare it to Texas. Rockingham had two races and couldn't sell out either one. Texas probably came close to selling more tickets for one race than Rockingham did for two. Then check the TV ratings for Rockingham. I bet you'll find that it was no longer a core race.

Also, if moving races from small markets to larger markets spells the death of NASCAR, it should be dead by now. Riverside, California? Nope, they don't race there anymore. North Wilkesboro? Nope, they don't race there anymore.

Sure, NASCAR will lose core fans, but chances are it won't be a result of WHERE they race. I seriously doubt that many fans will quit watching NASCAR because they race twice at Texas instead of twice at Darlington. Now, if the tracks they choose to race at result in boring races, then sure. But that would be a result of poor track selection, not simply moving races.

[Franklinnoble]

What killed hockey was outrageous salaries... I don't see much of an equivalent in NASCAR.

[Ragone]

In Nascar, if you don't perform well.. win.. you don't get paid

In the NHL.. even if you lose.. you get paid.

[TLK]

What killed hockey was outrageous salaries... I don't see much of an equivalent in NASCAR.tell that to Kirk Shelmerdine who earned $1 million plus.... and never finishing on the lead lap :)

:edit: screw the lead lap.... he was never within 98 laps of the lead...:/edit:

[SunDancer]

NASCAR will never get into a situation like F-1. The series isn't as hi-tech, which in itself will keep the entry costs low. Plus, NASCAR has the France family, which is smarter than any other racing dictatorship that I've seen....

True...But I said I meant if it NASCAR ever headed down that road, it would be like F-1, not really financially struggling, but having big issues, not like NHL's mess.

But NASCAR is very strong, with good leadership now. They are getting $700-some million over the next 10 years (I think) from Nextel alone.

Actually Easy,
The tracks that NASCAR is taking away from a second date like Darlington and that in the south, they aren't selling out like they use too anymore both dates.

[Ragone]

tell that to Kirk Shelmerdine who earned $1 million plus.... and never finishing on the lead lap :)


Tell that to Eric Lindros, who did zilch and probably made 4x as much as Shelmerdine :)

[Easy Mac]

What killed hockey was outrageous salaries... I don't see much of an equivalent in NASCAR.
You don't think this could happen in NASCAR? Are racers really more altruistic than hockey players? Look at Dale Earnhardt, Jr.... weren't there rumors of him bolting from his team for more money after last season? And most people I talk to point to the loss of local teams as a reason why they lost interest, look over this board and see the posts who see they need to get rid of some of the teams that aren't near where it started. I think current salary dispute in the NHL can be directly linked to the loss of revenue from people no longer interested or who are no longer able to closely follow hockey. Add to that the escalating ticket prices and I think you have a problem. I don't see how thats far fetched to see a similarity to NASCAR, where it is expanding to untested areas. Tracks are being built or pitched in numerous other cities outside of the "core" area. Ticket prices to NASCAR events are rising. They're pricing out and alienating the people who are used to going to these events.

I know that listening to talk radio, a lot of the calls last year involved either losing races or the new points system, all of which seemed to be expressed negatively, and are still being done so.

I'm not saying its a sure thing, but many here are taking it as though the shift away from its core demographic will have no impact on NASCAR whatsoever.

[Easy Mac]

True...But I said I meant if it NASCAR ever headed down that road, it would be like F-1, not really financially struggling, but having big issues, not like NHL's mess.

But NASCAR is very strong, with good leadership now. They are getting $700-some million over the next 10 years (I think) from Nextel alone.

Actually Easy,
The tracks that NASCAR is taking away from a second date like Darlington and that in the south, they aren't selling out like they use too anymore both dates.
Neither did games in Canada, so they took teams away, and the sport has suffered.

And as to the Lindros comparison from another poster, NASCAR also hasn't reached the level that the NHL has... I think a fair comparison will be 5 years from now.

And NASCAR isn't high tech? since when?

[Easy Mac]

dola, now I have to go to bed because I have church at 7:30 tomorrow morning... too f'ng early.

[TLK]

And NASCAR isn't high tech? since when?compared to F-1, (and ChampCar, GP 2, Superfund, F-Renault..... and even the IRL:eek: ) NASCAR is very low-tech and cheap....

[SunDancer]

You don't think this could happen in NASCAR? Are racers really more altruistic than hockey players? Look at Dale Earnhardt, Jr.... weren't there rumors of him bolting from his team for more money after last season? And most people I talk to point to the loss of local teams as a reason why they lost interest, look over this board and see the posts who see they need to get rid of some of the teams that aren't near where it started. I think current salary dispute in the NHL can be directly linked to the loss of revenue from people no longer interested or who are no longer able to closely follow hockey. Add to that the escalating ticket prices and I think you have a problem. I don't see how thats far fetched to see a similarity to NASCAR, where it is expanding to untested areas. Tracks are being built or pitched in numerous other cities outside of the "core" area. Ticket prices to NASCAR events are rising. They're pricing out and alienating the people who are used to going to these events.

I know that listening to talk radio, a lot of the calls last year involved either losing races or the new points system, all of which seemed to be expressed negatively, and are still being done so.

I'm not saying its a sure thing, but many here are taking it as though the shift away from its core demographic will have no impact on NASCAR whatsoever.

Doesn't Little E own his own team, or atleast have a stake? If not, its his family's team. Remember, Drivers usually get a base salary, plus big money from sponsorship deals and winnings. Hockey players earn their incomes from owners. I hated the new points system, but I found it exicting and more as the season wore on. It did its job, and France scored a Huge victory with it.

NASCAR is selling out its new tracks out in California, Vegas, Texas, ect. with its highest ratings ever. NASCAR has something Hockey doesn't have, grassroots (Hockey I mean in the new markets in the south and west). Racing is all over the country at the local tracks, with NASCAR's affilations and differnet level of touring series.

[Ragone]

Neither did games in Canada, so they took teams away, and the sport has suffered.

And as to the Lindros comparison from another poster, NASCAR also hasn't reached the level that the NHL has... I think a fair comparison will be 5 years from now.

And NASCAR isn't high tech? since when?


Nascar Passed the Nhl probably 2-3 years ago.. at least in the US, but that is debatable

[SunDancer]

Neither did games in Canada, so they took teams away, and the sport has suffered.

And as to the Lindros comparison from another poster, NASCAR also hasn't reached the level that the NHL has... I think a fair comparison will be 5 years from now.

And NASCAR isn't high tech? since when?

Compared to Formula One, it is not high-tech. In NASCAR, all the cars are built nearly to the same specs. Not true in Formula One. Toyota spent $200-some million alone in building its car for this year in Formula One. Ferrari has a budget of an neighborhood of $300 million a year in its F-1 program alone.

[TLK]

I'm willing to bet that you can run a 1 car team in NASCAR for under $5 million.... there's the difference....

[Buzzbee]

Easy Mac, what you are missing is that NASCAR fans don't follow "teams". They follow the drivers. Not too many people go and buy a Kansas Motor Speedway shirt (unless it is to commemorate attending a race there). They buy Dale Jr. shirts and Jeff Gordon hats, and Tony Stewart jackets, and Jimmy Johnson diecasts.

Your original point was that NASCAR was potentially losing core fans by moving races and you compared it to the NHL. Basically, there is no comparison.

Now you are bringing up ticket prices and the change to the points system. Yes, those may result in a loss of core fans, but that isn't similar to the NHL. Think about it. 40 games for hockey vs. one or two races for NASCAR. Raising ticket prices isn't going to have near the effect for NASCAR as it would the NHL. Sure, you'll lose fans, but by going to bigger, more affluent areas, you'll gain more than you lose. Changing the points system could be compared to adding another wild card team to the playoffs. Will you lose core fans? Sure. But will you gain some as well? Sure.

[SunDancer]

I'm willing to bet that you can run a 1 car team in NASCAR for under $5 million.... there's the difference....

How much does a competitive ChampCar 1-team operation cost to field?

[TLK]

Gerry Forsythe is asking for $6 million for his second seat..... not sure for a one car team...

[vtbub]

As long as NASCAR has personalities, it will be just fine.

[finkenst]

I have church at 7:30 tomorrow morning... too f'ng early.
almost iQotM.

[Dutch]

The NASCAR market would shrink back down if IRL and Champ got back together with a real business plan.

I would start by insisting that racing does not ever end it's season by overlapping with the start of football season....racing at the same time as football is not looking at the big picture very well.

I can't tell you how many seasons of CART and F1 ended abruptly in my household as soon as football was back on. And I can say the same about NASCAR. I like watching auto-racing. But I don't like it as much as football. It's an alternative enjoyment in my mind.

They really need to make auto-racing purely a spring/summer sport from March-August. That would help draw more interest.

[Easy Mac]

Nascar Passed the Nhl probably 2-3 years ago.. at least in the US, but that is debatable
I was talking about being in the public eye for a lenth of time. I'm thinking it would take at least 3-5 more years before you can equate Eric Lindros's salary to that of an overpaid NASCAR driver.

There is a race in darlington, but there's talk that if the track is built in NY, this is where the race is going. It is leaving the south, and they aren't pleased about it down here. THere was a huge article in the paper this morning about Bill France looking to move stuff over seas in the next 5 years or so (the Busch race in Mexico being a start). Add even 3 races overseas (or at least Canada/Mexico) and some more in the north, and thats 5 more races that have to move. They're pretty much running out of weekends to schedule new races without making it yearlong

As to the increased attendance, I think many sports have shown that an explosion in attendance is normally directly linked to the newness of the team/stadium in which it plays. Hockey teams averaged pretty good attendance when they initially moved, but it only took 2-3 years for the attendance to drop one the newness wore off. While it may take longer since NASCAR races are more "event driven", I don't think its off base to assume that a similar thing could occur.

And not many people buy a "FedEx Field" shirt either, for the record. Ticket prices and changes to the game have to be factored in to the equation. Just because I didn't think to mention it in the beginning does not make it any less valid a comparison.

There was also talk of Little E leaving his team if there weren't changes (I also heard he was at odds with whoever runs it, like his mom or stepmom or something). They got it worked out and he got a better deal, as well as a new crew chief.

[Buzzbee]

The NASCAR market would shrink back down if IRL and Champ got back together with a real business plan.

I would start by insisting that racing does not ever end it's season by overlapping with the start of football season....racing at the same time as football is not looking at the big picture very well.

I can't tell you how many seasons of CART and F1 ended abruptly in my household as soon as football was back on. And I can say the same about NASCAR. I like watching auto-racing. But I don't like it as much as football. It's an alternative enjoyment in my mind.

They really need to make auto-racing purely a spring/summer sport from March-August. That would help draw more interest.
NASCAR is aware of this, and has begun the process to address it. Later in the season, once football starts, they have started having races on Saturday nights instead of Sunday afternoons. Yes, they are still competing against football, but it is college football, and a majority of college games are played in the afternoon.

One of the main drawbacks (and this is an area where Easy's original point of alienating core fans is valid) is that most local short track and dirt track racing occurs on Saturday nights. So, by moving the races to Saturday nights, they are competing against the very grassroots racing that helps develop the core fans and the upcoming talent.

Easy, since it seems like you had made up your mind before you posed the question I don't see much reason to continue discussing this, as nothing we say is going to sway you from your opinion. Also, you seem to be ignoring our points as to why there is very little similarity between the NHL and NASCAR.

[Crapshoot]

Easy Mac, what you are missing is that NASCAR fans don't follow "teams". They follow the drivers. Not too many people go and buy a Kansas Motor Speedway shirt (unless it is to commemorate attending a race there). They buy Dale Jr. shirts and Jeff Gordon hats, and Tony Stewart jackets, and Jimmy Johnson diecasts.

'This seems to be a very good point. I can't stand NASCAR personally, but this seems like a good reason why its not likely to have to worry about the NHL's problems. Im curious if NASCAR, unlike Champ or IRL, has any dangers of losing their drivers to F-1 - I know rumors once had Gordon contemplating the leap.

Btw, will someone who is a NASCAR fan confirm this for me - I had a friend who insisted Gordon is the biggest reason for the passion it incites, because half the fans love him - and the other half hate his guts.

[Dutch]

NASCAR is aware of this, and has begun the process to address it. Later in the season, once football starts, they have started having races on Saturday nights instead of Sunday afternoons. Yes, they are still competing against football, but it is college football, and a majority of college games are played in the afternoon.For me, this is a good thing.

One of the main drawbacks (and this is an area where Easy's original point of alienating core fans is valid) is that most local short track and dirt track racing occurs on Saturday nights. So, by moving the races to Saturday nights, they are competing against the very grassroots racing that helps develop the core fans and the upcoming talent.But I can see how it pisses off the core fan base as well...

[Easy Mac]

Easy, since it seems like you had made up your mind before you posed the question I don't see much reason to continue discussing this, as nothing we say is going to sway you from your opinion. Also, you seem to be ignoring our points as to why there is very little similarity between the NHL and NASCAR.
Look in the mirror sometime.

[Dutch]

'This seems to be a very good point. I can't stand NASCAR personally, but this seems like a good reason why its not likely to have to worry about the NHL's problems. Im curious if NASCAR, unlike Champ or IRL, has any dangers of losing their drivers to F-1 - I know rumors once had Gordon contemplating the leap.
Gordon started his career as an open-wheel racer. That's probably where those suggestions came from. But F1 is a completely different beast than any form of American racing. The ammount of constant attention and hard-core reflexes and truly keeping a machine on the edge for 2 hours straight is so much more important in F1 than in CART. Some of the greatest CART/IRL drivers have completely bombed in F1 (Andretti/Zanardi). Their are a few that did well in F1 that also raced in CART/IRL but they were probably being groomed with an eye on F1 the whole time (Montoya/Villenueve).

Btw, will someone who is a NASCAR fan confirm this for me - I had a friend who insisted Gordon is the biggest reason for the passion it incites, because half the fans love him - and the other half hate his guts.
Jeff Gordon's popularity does seem to coincide with NASCAR's popularity.

[Airhog]

Most likely not. I think that F1 looks down on the drivers in nascar. It isnt worth the money and effort to hire people away from the top nascar teams. Just look at how many drivers suck at the races they hold on non oval tracks. Some teams even bring in road racers, and they always seem to do well.

[Airhog]

Jeff foxworthy says the reason that fans hate Jeff is because he enuciates :D

[kcchief19]

On the debate of a changing fan base, I agree there is little if any similarity between the NHL and NASCAR. Easy's initial premise is incorrect -- the NHL never experienced a boom in popularity. It expanded and relocated franchises from small markets who could not longer compete financial to larger, more affluent markets. While those new markets saw a brief burst of success, it was never sustained and national TV ratings never increased.

The success of NASCAR is largely due to an amazing equilibrium of supply and demand. With only 36 races around the country, there is a low enough supply that maintains the product value. If NASCAR went nuts and went to 52 races and expanded the number of race teams to account for "bye weeks," there would be some erosion in attendance and/or ticket prices.

As for forgetting its fan base, I do agree that NASCAR doesn't care, but that doesn't matter. For every "redneck" who is disgusted at the changes in NASCAR (haven't met one yet, by the way -- they all seem to still love "Yunior") the franchise has picked up at least two fans in other parts of the country who have a lot more discretionary income and are willing to spend a ton on tickets, tobaccky and Cialis.

What I initially thought when I read this was whether or not NASCAR could end up shutdown like the NHL is now. I think that's more of a possibility. Sure, there are drivers who do extremely well and are owners or part owners of their teams, but it is a top-heavy racing league. The drivers are going to at some point want more money. The drivers would have tremendous power if they joined together. If Jeff Gordon, Earnhardt and the other top drivers organized a union with the other drivers, they could dictate the way NASCAR is run and get their hands on more money.

While NASCAR is enjoying tremendous success, that success is due almost entirely to the personalities of the drivers. If you had 40 guys out there driving who weren't named Gordon or Earnhardt, NASCAR would be in trouble. If the drivers are happy, everything will be fine. But history of other sports suggest that at some point in the future, the drivers will get unhappy.

[Buzzbee]

Look in the mirror sometime.
I'm open to the idea that NASCAR might alienate their core fans. Hell, the change in the points system was a huge risk, and DID alienate core fans. However, I don't see a correlation between the NHL and NASCAR and none of the points you've made have caused me to go, hmmm...ya know, he just might be right.

[Crapshoot]

Point Dutch- Im a big F1 fan, and Montoya's success always impressed me - as did Villeneuve's, if only because I believe the latter had no previous F1 or F3 experience.

Airhog, I think you're understating the cash flow ability of a F1 team to hire a Gordon - Schumacher makes in the region of 60-70 million dollars a year, and anyone at a big team is looking at 10-15 at least. Nascar is big, but I think F1 is still bigger in terms of financial muscle.

[SunDancer]

Point Dutch- Im a big F1 fan, and Montoya's success always impressed me - as did Villeneuve's, if only because I believe the latter had no previous F1 or F3 experience.

Airhog, I think you're understating the cash flow ability of a F1 team to hire a Gordon - Schumacher makes in the region of 60-70 million dollars a year, and anyone at a big team is looking at 10-15 at least. Nascar is big, but I think F1 is still bigger in terms of financial muscle.

Formula One has a global market with the high-end car makers like Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes, ect. NASCAR just has the US market and is very US-based in the tracks, the rules regulating the car markers (all cars are US made/based), ect.

[Ryan S]

The drivers are going to at some point want more money. The drivers would have tremendous power if they joined together. If Jeff Gordon, Earnhardt and the other top drivers organized a union with the other drivers, they could dictate the way NASCAR is run and get their hands on more money.
I don't think there is any chance of this happening. Since most of the money the drivers get is provided by sponsorship or prize money, there is a limit to how much a driver can earn which can only change if a more lucrative sponsorhip deal, or if prize money increases.

There is as much chance of a strike in NASCAR as there is in Golf.

[Young Drachma]

It's gonna be Viperball (http://www.proviperball.com). Just you wait.

Of course, if by next "NHL" you mean "the fourth major league," then yeah it'll be us. If you mean "failed league whose outlived its usefulness." Then no, that's not us.

Go NASCAR. (sorry, I couldn't help it.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: Little E -- that situation appears to be far more about control than money directly. And, if judging from my own (extremely limited) dealings with his stepmother, I can't really say that I blame him a bit for wanting to be elsewhere. A royal bitch of the highest order.

re: alienation -- anybody who doesn't believe that has taken place & is continuing to take place, isn't part of/isn't familiar with the traditional core audience. Among those fans who've been around since B.G. (before Gordon), I've never seen the interest lower, less passionate, nor ever accompanied so frequently by strong anger toward the management/ownership.

re: comparison to the NHL -- at the risk of providing a good set-up for the assholes with cultural comments, I think a more apt comparison might be found in the state of professional wrestling. Years of success (of varying degrees) followed by a lack of competition, followed by a boom, followed by abandonment of the core fan base (not limited to geographical abandonment), followed by a significant reversal of fortune.

[spleen1015]

The top drivers in NASCAR aren't going to make the move to F-1 because F-1 is unAmerican. Driving in F-1 would be a huge change in life style I don't think any of these guys would want to make. Why travel 1000s of miles when you can travel 100s and be successful and have millions of folks wearing your picture on their backs?

That's the same reason why NASCAR will never turn out like the NHL. This country on a whole is very supportive of itself. Hockey isn't a big sport in America because it's not American made. I really think if Hockey was an American creation, the NHL would be as big as the NFL. Look at all of our most popular sports. American made.

[SunDancer]

The top drivers in NASCAR aren't going to make the move to F-1 because F-1 is unAmerican. Driving in F-1 would be a huge change in life style I don't think any of these guys would want to make. Why travel 1000s of miles when you can travel 100s and be successful and have millions of folks wearing your picture on their backs?

That's the same reason why NASCAR will never turn out like the NHL. This country on a whole is very supportive of itself. Hockey isn't a big sport in America because it's not American made. I really think if Hockey was an American creation, the NHL would be as big as the NFL. Look at all of our most popular sports. American made.

A good point...F-1 doesn't have an American driver, and just enter the US market a few years ago at Indy. I am not sure if American drivers from NASCAR wouldn't go if F-1 if they had the chance. It is the premier racing series in the world, with paydays in the tens of millions and a chance to drive against the best in the world. But, the difference is that NASCAR is the oval-series, F-1 is a road-coarse series.

[rkmsuf]

It's fascinating to me the popularity of NASCAR, particularly on tv.

Oh hey, there they go around the first turn. Oh, here they come and...around the first turn again. Oooh, oooh, they are coming for the first turn again.

Let's talk about strategy here.

We'll I think he's going to try and go fast and pass cars. That would be the play here.

[Easy Mac]

I should write for ESPN.com:)

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?id=1986241

[TLK]

The top drivers in NASCAR aren't going to make the move to F-1 because they wouldn't succeed.
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