Chris Webber is a 76er

[Young Drachma]

Wow..

[Young Drachma]

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1998456)

Bad trade for the Kings, but AI should be dancing in the streets.

[jbmagic]

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?t=36270

its been posted already

[Sharpieman]

The question is, will Webber make the Sixers legit contenders now?

[Neon_Chaos]

Boom. The 76ers pull off another mid-season magic trick. (remember the Mutombo trade that sent them to the NBA Finals?)

It's going to be interesting to see how this affects both teams. (Brad Miller's going to average more points, I am led to believe)

Hope this pushes the 76ers to the top of the Atlantic.

[Young Drachma]

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showthread.php?t=36270

its been posted already

I know, but I wanted a C-Webb only thread.

Doesn't matter :) I'll go be a team player and contribute on the other thread.

[Franklinnoble]

I didn't hear about this trade until I got in the car this morning and turned on the radio. I listened to about 30 fans from Sacramento call in and whine about it. I called up a friend of mine and talked about it. I've pondered it. Here's my conclusion:

I really wish the Kings had gotten a little more for Webber. Maybe someone with an expiring contract, or some young talent with real potential, or even a draft pick. That's my one complaint about this trade.

With that said, I'm glad he's gone. Webber's knee is a time bomb. He's only practiced with the team twice all year, and he's missed a considerable number of games. On top of that, the Kings are a better team without him. Look it up. Over the last two seasons, they're 51-16 without Webber. With him, they're 38-31. Webber is a ball hog who shoots too much and misses way too much... in points-per-shot, he's like 98th in the NBA. With him gone, better shooters like Stojakavic, Bibby, and Mobley will make more baskets. Even Brad Miller has a better shooting percentage.

This trade ought to make Peja happy, and maybe he'll return to the MVP-candidate form he had last year before Webber returned from his knee injury. Either way, it makes Mike Bibby the focal point of the Kings offense now, and I think that's a good thing.

I don't know anything about the three stiffs the Kings got in return. I do know that it's easier to trade off three guys with an average salary around $6 million than it is to trade one guy making $20 million. I expect the Kings to make more moves in the offseason, even though these guys all have long term deals.

For the Sixers, it's a gamble. Webber might just need a change of scenery. Since it's A.I.'s team, C-Webb doesn't have to be "the Man" anymore, and won't be compelled to take as many crappy shots. Maybe. But beware, Philly fans... Webber is damaged goods. His shooting percentage has sucked for a few years now. He can't rebound anymore, and he moves up and down the court like an old man. This trade could catapult the Sixers to Conference favorite status, or it could doom the team for the next three years if Webb's knee doesn't hold up. Good luck. I honestly don't think Webber is a bad person, and I'd have no problem seeing him do well in Philly.

I'm glad the Kings took a chance here. I'm excited to see how they'll do without this being Webber's team anymore. I didn't think they were Championship material before, and I know they're not now, but this is the first step in the rebuilding process. It's a tough step, but it's one they had to take. I think probably that Geoff Petrie tried to get more for Webb, and this was the best he could do - and I'm glad he took it. This was probably the last chance they had to unload him, and they'll be better in the long run for taking advantage of it.

[dacman]

If Kings fans think Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner are stiffs, they're in for a bit of a surprise.

Thomas averaged 13.6pts and 10.1rbs last year in Philly (started most of the year).
Skinner averaged 10.5pts, 7.4rbs, and 1.1blks 2 years ago in Milwaukee.

I love how people are jumping all over these guys calling them stiffs/nobodys just because they aren't household names. Stars they are not, but both are decent players. You want high energy guys who bang, battle for boards, and don't really care how many shots they get (read: anti-Webber) you got 'em.

Skinner is 28, Thomas is 27 -- they aren't exactly ancient/washed up either.

[Arles]

The problem I have is their contracts (as General Mike posted earlier):

Williamson makes 5.5M this season, 6.0 next and 6.5 in 06-07.
Thomas makes 4.8, 5.3, 5.9, 6.4, 6.9, 7.4 (approximately) over the next 6 seasons.
Skinner makes 4.5M, 4.95 and 5.4

It's hard to trade average players in 3-7 year contracts making 5-6 mil. It would have been much better for them to get an expiring $20 million deal than three guys that make $5 mil for the next 3-4 seasons. Unless these guys become above average players, there's little chance Sacremento will be able to move them until their final contract season.

[Franklinnoble]

If Kings fans think Kenny Thomas and Brian Skinner are stiffs, they're in for a bit of a surprise.

Thomas averaged 13.6pts and 10.1rbs last year in Philly (started most of the year).
Skinner averaged 10.5pts, 7.4rbs, and 1.1blks 2 years ago in Milwaukee.

I love how people are jumping all over these guys calling them stiffs/nobodys just because they aren't household names. Stars they are not, but both are decent players. You want high energy guys who bang, battle for boards, and don't really care how many shots they get (read: anti-Webber) you got 'em.

Skinner is 28, Thomas is 27 -- they aren't exactly ancient/washed up either.

I hope you're right. And I shouldn't have used the term "stiffs" when I admittedly knew nothing about them. I'd like to think this gives the Kings some added depth. The could certainly use some more defense, rebounding, and overall tenacity.


The problem I have is their contracts (as General Mike posted earlier):

Williamson makes 5.5M this season, 6.0 next and 6.5 in 06-07.
Thomas makes 4.8, 5.3, 5.9, 6.4, 6.9, 7.4 (approximately) over the next 6 seasons.
Skinner makes 4.5M, 4.95 and 5.4

It's hard to trade average players in 3-7 year contracts making 5-6 mil. It would have been much better for them to get an expiring $20 million deal than three guys that make $5 mil for the next 3-4 seasons. Unless these guys become above average players, there's little chance Sacremento will be able to move them until their final contract season.


I disagree. A $5-$6 million contract is a lot easier to move as part of a multi-player deal. This isn't as good as getting a big expiring contract, but it's the next best thing. Webber's $20 million was impossible to move, and I really think this is probably the best the Kings could do with him.

[Desnudo]

Webber is a playoff choker. Just look at his face in crunch time. The Kings are better off without him.

[Franklinnoble]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2003/03/31/siflashback_1993_Final_Four/930412_lg.jpg

[Suicane75]

Sixers just added Mashburn and Rodney Rogers.

[rkmsuf]

Mashburn will retire but Rogers can hit some open 3s for them.

Philly has locked up the division.

[JeeberD]

Rogers was a sick dunker way back in the day. He used to me one of my favorite Nuggs...

[Masked]

Mashburn will retire but Rogers can hit some open 3s for them.

Philly has locked up the division.
Why would Mashburn retire? He still had one year left on his contract and can spend another season on IR and collect about $10M.

[rkmsuf]

Why would Mashburn retire? He still had one year left on his contract and can spend another season on IR and collect about $10M.

Whatever. I mean he's not going to play.

[stevew]

The problem I have is their contracts (as General Mike posted earlier):

Williamson makes 5.5M this season, 6.0 next and 6.5 in 06-07.
Thomas makes 4.8, 5.3, 5.9, 6.4, 6.9, 7.4 (approximately) over the next 6 seasons.
Skinner makes 4.5M, 4.95 and 5.4

It's hard to trade average players in 3-7 year contracts making 5-6 mil. It would have been much better for them to get an expiring $20 million deal than three guys that make $5 mil for the next 3-4 seasons. Unless these guys become above average players, there's little chance Sacremento will be able to move them until their final contract season.


Kenny Thomas is the major crazy contract, but just cause of length. If he doesnt work out, he would be very hard to trade. In 2 years they can likely trade Skinner and Williamson(if they have them still) and pick up a nice player. But in the meantime, Sacto does pick up 3 solid frontcourt reserves. They likely wouldnt be under the cap within 3 years anyways when Webber expires. I've only really seen Skinner play much, and i thought he was fairly decent when he did his stint on the Cavs. Williamson was good for the Pistons, but i thought he had grown injury prone.

[Arles]

I disagree. A $5-$6 million contract is a lot easier to move as part of a multi-player deal. This isn't as good as getting a big expiring contract, but it's the next best thing. Webber's $20 million was impossible to move, and I really think this is probably the best the Kings could do with him.
If the player is above average, I agree. The problem is no one wants an average player unless they fit one of the the following two scenerios:

A. Huge contract that ends after the season

B. Make around $1 million

There would be no reason to absorb the contracts of Williamson or Thomas when similar players could be had for the cheap or for an expiring contract. The only thing someone would trade for any of these guys over the next few seasons is another bad contract.

[Franklinnoble]

If the player is above average, I agree. The problem is no one wants an average player unless they fit one of the the following two scenerios:

A. Huge contract that ends after the season

B. Make around $1 million

There would be no reason to absorb the contracts of Williamson or Thomas when similar players could be had for the cheap or for an expiring contract. The only thing someone would trade for any of these guys over the next few seasons is another bad contract.

That's not really my point. Suppose the Kings have a young, cheap prospect that someone else wants. They can move the cheap guy + $6 million stiff and get some value in return.

[sterlingice]

Rogers was a sick dunker way back in the day. He used to me one of my favorite Nuggs...
People outside of Denver have favorite Nuggets? http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

SI

[JeeberD]

That was back in the day when I lived in Denver, SI. I had the unfortunate problem of living in one of the city's suburbs my last two years of high school...

[Franklinnoble]

Ok... I know it's early yet... but, what's the word in Philly on how this trade is working out?

My guess is that the national media has roasted the Kings for getting "ripped off" here, but in about two more weeks, that story is going to change, and Geoff Petrie is going to face charges of grand theft here...

[Franklinnoble]

dola... pretty good piece by Skip Bayless on Webber...


Monday, February 28, 2005
No will, no way for C-Webb
By Skip Bayless
Page 2

Allen Iverson did exactly what he told Chris Webber he was going to do.

Late in Saturday's game, he shot his second free throw just long enough that it caromed squarely off the back iron. The ball bounded beyond the two Sacramento Kings with the inside position and fell perfectly within reach of a now-former King. Out flashed one of Webber's tantalizingly long arms. Suddenly, improbably, the newest Philadelphia 76er had the ball and an open path to slam it home just before the buzzer. The basket would force overtime.

What a fairy-tale moment this could have been: Sixers Could Be Kings ... Webber Burns Former Team in Philly Debut.

Yet this was the last place C-Webb wanted to find himself.

See Webb cower. See Webb shrink.

Instead of going up strong, Webber took off toward the right side of the rim, almost as if inviting interference from an ex-teammate. Ironically, the only challenge came from an ex-Sixer, Kenny Thomas, one of three players traded last week for Webber. Yet Thomas didn't block or bother Webber's little scoop layup. It merely didn't have enough oomph.

The shot came to a no-guts, no-glory end against the rim. Kings 101, Sixers 99.

Webber sent himself into an exaggerated and unnecessary fall, as if to fool the Sixers' first official sellout crowd of the season into believing he had been knocked off balance up near the rim. He yanked former teammate Darius Songaila down on top of him.

But C-Webb, more lover than fighter, quickly hugged and patted Songaila as if to say: "Thanks for falling with me, man. I still love you guys."

At least, Webber loves all the Kings except the one who couldn't play Saturday night. The town of Sacramento wasn't big enough for both Webber and Peja Stojakovic. That was one reason Webber had to go. General manager Geoff Petrie wants the Kings to finally become Peja's Team.

Oh, the pain: Even with an injured Peja watching from the end of the bench, the Kings outscrapped and outshot the Sixers in the fourth quarter and upstaged the Seventy-Webbers in his first game in Philly.

As I watched, I felt a little sorry for Webber. I've always felt a little sorry for a guy who was blessed with way too much talent — attached to way too much sensitivity and intellect. Gut feeling: Mayce Edward Christopher Webber III has never wanted to be as great as we expected him to be.

His mother, Doris, a teacher, has always told him: "The more you've been given, the more that's demanded of you."

She means money. But this also applies to ability.

Webber stands 6-foot-10, but his arms and springs have always allowed him to play 7 feet tall. Until he hurt his knee in the 2003 playoffs, he was the quickest-jumping big man who ever played. Such natural strength. Such sweet touch, inside and out. Such point-guard feel for the game.

All of which allowed Webber to dominate the competition at Detroit's Country Day prep ... and as the Fab One of Michigan's Fab Five ... and in lots and lots of regular-season NBA games at Golden State, Washington and Sacramento.

But more and more you get the feeling that Chris Webber doesn't want to be Chris Webber. It's the fame that haunts him, not the fortune. He surely doesn't mind the max-contract wealth that basketball has provided. But deep down, Webber is a complementary player trapped in max-contract expectations.

And he's introspective enough to let it eat him alive. This, after all, is a man who speaks eloquently about black history and who has built one of the country's finest collections of black artifacts and art. Here is a deep thinker — maybe too deep to be a franchise-changing, clutch-shooting superstar.

No shame there. Where does it say that just because you're born with extraordinary ability, you also get Michael Jordan's tunnel-vision rage to win?

The late, great Jim Murray, whose columns were as insightful as they were hilarious, once told me: "Hit me a fly ball with two outs, bases loaded, bottom of the ninth in the seventh game of the World Series, and I'm going to have four or five of the longest seconds of my life. I'm going to think about how I could be forever remembered as the guy who dropped this fly ball. And I'm going to drop it."

That's an underlying reason the Webber trade wasn't as great for the Sixers and awful for the Kings as initially portrayed.

This trade definitely is a burden for Webber, who now must try and fail to live up to even greater expectations. Now, sigh, he's supposed to be The Answer for The Answer.

Yes, Webber provides Iverson with the perennial All-Star teammate he hasn't had. Yet as he nears his 32nd birthday on Wednesday, what exactly is Webber? A finesse forward? A point center? A big tease?

No player can build you up and let you down quite like Webber. Oh, what a tangled C-Webb the Sixers weave. In the end, they'll realize they can't win without or with him.

Petrie decided he had a better chance without Webber. Webber could take the Kings to the threshold of greatness, but he didn't have the confidence or the killer will to carry Sacramento over it.

It became painfully obvious that the Kings were a better team, offensively and defensively, while Webber was rehabbing his knee last season. The offense had much better flow and rhythm, and Stojakovic turned into an MVP front-runner. When Webber returned, his knee never was quite right, and he turned into a ground-bound, ball-eating lane-clogger. If the ball went in to Webber, time stopped. And the ball did not come back out.

But this season, Webber had found a new comfort zone as a facilitator. The Kings' offense was running through him instead of ending with him. He had four triple doubles. He was averaging about 21 points, almost 10 rebounds and 5.4 assists.

Still, Petrie wasn't buying it. Especially not for the $62 million the Kings would owe Webber over the next three seasons. Petrie knew all too well how little passion and intensity Webber brought to the defensive end. Petrie knew better than anyone how Webber usually runs from the ball in pressure situations, especially in the postseason.

For years, I've talked to various NBA GMs, who usually refer to Webber's "loser's intangibles." It all started, of course, in that NCAA championship game against North Carolina when Webber called the timeout that Michigan didn't have, down two with 11 seconds left. That technical foul took the Wolverines out of the game. Carolina won 77-71.

Webber's Michigan team lost two NCAA title games — the first to Duke.

Corliss Williamson won an NCAA title at Arkansas. His Detroit Pistons won an NBA title last season. Williamson has "winner's intangibles."

Williamson, Thomas and Brian Skinner were traded for Webber. They'll make the Kings a little better as a team. Yes, Saturday night was just one game, but Williamson contributed 17 points (on 7-of-11 shooting) with six rebounds, three assists and two steals. Thomas added 16 points and 10 rebounds.

Webber had 16 and 11. Webber hit his first two jumpers. Iverson set up Webber to make the last shot.

"Everything happened just right," Iverson said of his intentionally missed free throw. "But we just couldn't finish."

That seems to be the epitaph for every Webber team. They always expect too much. That's their fault, not his.