The Incredibly Growing Bonds...

[DanGarion]

Here is a ESPN photo montage of Barry Bonds throughout the years.

I think he first starting showing "bulk" in and around 1999 from the look in these pictures.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/gallery/19379070.html

Enjoy.

[Arles]

It all went downhill when he lost the stache. Maybe shaving that off made his face all puffy ;)

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

It all went downhill when he lost the stache. Maybe shaving that off made his face all puffy ;)
That's what happens to you when you shave your goatee. :D

[stevew]

Its not like he went big over night tho, he was still big back in 92 or 93. He was just skinnier.

[Fritz]

in 89, Barry has a skoal can in his pocket

[Fritz]

glad no one has year by year pics of me over the past 18 years

[rexallllsc]

LOL! Check out 96. He got super-big all of a sudden.

There's no question. Roid monster.

[Glengoyne]

LOL! Check out 96. He got super-big all of a sudden.

There's no question. Roid monster.
I don't think I saw any appreciable difference on a year to year basis till 98 or 99. Either way, the difference in those years is that he put on some weight. He had guns way back in the early years. Now if you compare the pics of his biceps and forearms from early in his career to late, then you see a big difference.

[Radii]

Up until 1998 it seems to be that damn body armor he wears that grows and grows and grows... then in 99 the growth spurt switched from his body armor to his neck.

[Blackadar]

Actually, I look at picture 4 (1991) and see a guy who has a huge frame. He's already big through the arms, biceps and chest but has a tiny waist. He looks like he's a track athlete.

He just looks like he's added 25-35 lbs since then. And not all muscle...there's some weight around that midsection. So it looks like he started lifting for burst and power rather than conditioning. And over 10 years, that's not necessarily roid-growth. Most powerlifters don't peak until their mid-to-late 30s too.

Putting it another way, I don't see the David Boston kind of growth on Barry. I see a pretty normal progression, especially if he changed his weightlifting habits and focus. Which is VERY likely given the MLB corporate shift in direction from the early 90s to now on hitting HRs over contact hitting. Everyone seems to be getting bigger.

Now do I think he used some "assistance"? Yes. I also think that most of MLB has too and it's been swept under the rug until Balco. I don't think Balco happens to be an unusual situation...just one that got caught.

[Ksyrup]

1993 Bonds looks suspiciously like 2004 Michael Tucker.

[Franklinnoble]

Now do I think he used some "assistance"? Yes.

Is there really any argument here anymore?

Bonds admitted to using steriods. He's just trying to bullshit the world into believing he didn't know he was really taking them. But, of course, the Bonds apologists will continue to defend their boy. Because we all know the real reason why everyone hates Barry Bonds is because he's black.

:rolleyes:

[Klinglerware]

Because we all know the real reason why everyone hates Barry Bonds is because he's black.

:rolleyes:

Really? Who says that?

[Ksyrup]

Barry

[Arles]

Really? Who says that?
"Babe Ruth is one of the greatest baseball players ever and he ain't black either," Bonds said. "I'm black, we go through a little bit more. Unfortunately, I said it. I'm not a racist, but I live in the real world.

[Blackadar]

I don't like anyone playing the race card. I don't condone Barry doing it either.

[Klinglerware]

Oh okay, I didn't get the reference (didn't see the Bonds press conference). I just wondered why Franklinnoble jumped in there with a random racial comment when nobody else mentioned it in the thread. Sorry 'bout that...

[Sharpieman]

wow he's such a roid user gosh. I mean no one else ever gains weight over 10 years. I mean damn, look at those arms, I mean come on, no one can workout and get bigger arms. :rolleyes:

Those pictures don't prove anything, he already admitted to using roids before the 2001 season. However, we don't know how much he used them and we don't know how long he used them.

[Franklinnoble]

I don't like anyone playing the race card. I don't condone Barry doing it either.

I wasn't pointing at you when I made that remark... it was aimed at Barry and his legion of apologists.

[Buzzbee]

Well, there's no doubt that he is bigger and more muscular now compared to those early pictures. However, I did find it curious that the first three pictures were taken from farther away and got all of Bonds in the picture. The later pictures were generally much closer and were generally of his upper half. Seems like there would be enough pictures of Bonds in the ESPN archive that they could have shown similar poses from similar distances.

[Ksyrup]

Well, there's no doubt that he is bigger and more muscular now compared to those early pictures. However, I did find it curious that the first three pictures were taken from farther away and got all of Bonds in the picture. The later pictures were generally much closer and were generally of his upper half. Seems like there would be enough pictures of Bonds in the ESPN archive that they could have shown similar poses from similar distances.
Not when they have something in particular in mind...

[rexallllsc]

Are people seriously trying to say that he wasn't juicing his brains out?

http://www.snac.com/images/bonds_conte.jpg

[rexallllsc]

wow he's such a roid user gosh. I mean no one else ever gains weight over 10 years. I mean damn, look at those arms, I mean come on, no one can workout and get bigger arms. :rolleyes:

Those pictures don't prove anything, he already admitted to using roids before the 2001 season. However, we don't know how much he used them and we don't know how long he used them.

You wouldn't happen to be a Giants fan, would you? lol

[Bad-example]

Let me get this straight...a lot of you think Barry used steroids?

[rexallllsc]

Let me get this straight...a lot of you think Barry used steroids?

It's not even a question. He admitted it. "I didn't know what they were!"

[MrBug708]

Barry is an idiot. The HR record holder happens to be black...

[Bad-example]

It's not even a question. He admitted it. "I didn't know what they were!"

Alrighty. Just making sure because all the Bonds haters have been so quiet about this issue I wanted to understand their position.

[Buzzbee]

Not when they have something in particular in mind...
Exactly.

[rexallllsc]

Exactly.

Are you guys trying to make the argument that Bonds wasn't roiding?

[rexallllsc]

Alrighty. Just making sure because all the Bonds haters have been so quiet about this issue I wanted to understand their position.

Ohhhhh...you (a Giant fan) were trying to claim that us who oppose Barry's cheating are being too loud about it.

Boo hoo.

[Karlifornia]

Rexalllsc...Geez are you Rick Reilly?

[Shkspr]

Are you guys trying to make the argument that Bonds wasn't roiding?

Actually, they're making the argument that a "news" organization with a vested financial interest in fomenting controversy and speculation might be acting less as an impartial reporter of the facts in this instance and more as a prosecutor in the court of public opinion, especially damaging in the light of recent conflict wherein the subject of their "expose" lashed out about their lack of impartiality.

Regardless of the possible truth of the allegations or not, a set of carefully selected photos that allege to show a change in body composition are, by themselves, less than worthless as a smoking gun.

[Bad-example]

Ohhhhh...you (a Giant fan) were trying to claim that us who oppose Barry's cheating are being too loud about it.

Boo hoo.

Not too loud.

Just treating speculation as fact and being majorly redundant about it to boot.

You think Bonds is a walking chemistry set. We get it.

[rexallllsc]

Not too loud.

Just treating speculation as fact and being majorly redundant about it to boot.

You think Bonds is a walking chemistry set. We get it.

Haha. "I didn't know what they were! I thought it was oil!"

Let me guess, you think Bonds was one of Conte's "legit" clients, right?

http://www.snac.com/images/bonds_conte.jpg

[rexallllsc]

Actually, they're making the argument that a "news" organization with a vested financial interest in fomenting controversy and speculation might be acting less as an impartial reporter of the facts in this instance and more as a prosecutor in the court of public opinion, especially damaging in the light of recent conflict wherein the subject of their "expose" lashed out about their lack of impartiality.

Regardless of the possible truth of the allegations or not, a set of carefully selected photos that allege to show a change in body composition are, by themselves, less than worthless as a smoking gun.

The pictures are not the only evidence against Bonds. Hell, when all of this was nothing more than conjecture, I was more inclined to believe Barry.

Once the whole "I didn't know what it was" crap came out, that sealed the deal for me the other way.

[Fouts]

Jose admitted to using steriods, why didn't he hit 73 home runs?

[Franklinnoble]

Jose admitted to using steriods, why didn't he hit 73 home runs?

Because he wasn't black.

[Shkspr]

The pictures are not the only evidence against Bonds. Hell, when all of this was nothing more than conjecture, I was more inclined to believe Barry.

Once the whole "I didn't know what it was" crap came out, that sealed the deal for me the other way.

Nobody's claiming that the pictures are the only evidence against Bonds. I believe the claim on the table is that the pictures are no evidence at all one way or the other, since they were put together by an organization whose only agenda is ratcheting up the newsworthiness of the alleged wrongdoing, with no responsibility to anyone to actually produce factual information on the subject.

[Young Drachma]

Jose admitted to using steriods, why didn't he hit 73 home runs?

Or Mark or anyone else who used or tried to.

[SnowMan]

That's obvious. Jeff Kent.

[stevew]

Barry is an idiot. The HR record holder happens to be black...


Does anyone think Hank Aaron is even in the top 5 players of all time? Ruth is still regarded as the greatest ever i would think.

[tategter]

Does anyone think Hank Aaron is even in the top 5 players of all time? Ruth is still regarded as the greatest ever i would think.

Ruth could easily be considered the best of all time because he hit his homers at a time when working-out was considered taboo in baseball. Hammer hit more dingers over his career, but he didn't dominate the game like Ruth did in his time.

Bonds is just an overrated steriod-inflated ass.

[AENeuman]

It's a shame that the "evidence" comes from an illegal leak. Like Canseco, this is a questionable source with potentially true points, thus putting everything in doubt, or at least making everyone muddy. Funny how we can legitimize a wrong by claiming that it gets us to the truth. Ken Starr redux.

Being a biased Giants fan I really don't care if Barry did it. What bothers me is that if he did cheat I at least want World Series rings. Probably 5 guys in game 6 were on roids, and we still blew it! That's just a bad use of cheating.

Finally, what's worse taking roids so you can hit the ball out in one of the hardest homerun parks in the game, or hitting in Coors or 257 right field pole at the Polo Grounds?

[Ksyrup]

It could be worse - you could be a fan of UK football. Talk about lack of a payoff for going on probation...

[korme]

he needs to bust this earring back out

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2004/1203/photo/1994.jpg

[dawgfan]

It's not even a question. He admitted it. "I didn't know what they were!"

Actually, technically it still is a question. Barry admitted to using a clear substance and a cream which he thought were something other than steroids/HGH/whatever, but doesn't know for sure. Prosecuters believe those substances were the illegal streroid/HGH/whatever that BALCO was distributing, but they don't know that for a fact.

Now, before you jump all over me, I think it's extremely likely those were illegal supplements Barry was using. I just wanted to point out that we still don't have proof that Barry did anything wrong.

[dawgfan]

As a follow-up, a question for you all: Let's make a couple of assumptions;

1. The substances Barry used were illegal steroids/HGH/whatever;
2. Barry really didn't know he was taking any illegal supplements

If this scenario were true - if Barry unkowingly was taking illegal supplements - would that change your opinion any of what he did?

Pretty much everyone thinks he was juicing. Would it change your opinion of him and what you think of his accomplishments if you thought he was juicing unknowingly?

[PineTar]

Barry did try to pass off his use of these substances as perceived use of flax seed oil....

<h2 class="heading2">Health Benefits of Flax Seed Oil
</h2>

<p class="bodytext">Flax seeds contain 12% mucilage,
which makes it a gentle, natural laxative. Flax seeds
are perfect for individuals who has a sensitive stomach.
</p>
<ul>
<li class="bodytext">Flax seed oil acts as a buffer
for excess stomach acids</li>
<li class="bodytext">Flax seed oil soothes ulcers
and irritable bowel disorders</li>
<li class="bodytext">Flax seed oil lubricates and
absorbs toxins</li>
<li class="bodytext">Prevents toxic build up in the
bowl</li>

</ul>
<p class="bodytext">Flax seed oil also contains lignans
that have anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal
and anti-cancer properties. Flax seeds have the richest
source of lignans, 100 times more than the next best
source, wheat bran. Flax seed also contains lecithin
which emulsifies fat and cholesterol. These little
seeds improve digestion, help stabilize blood glucose
levels, fight tumor formation and enhance cardiovascular
health.

At least Barry's bowl doesn't have toxic build up. :D

And Jason Giambi is every bit the choad and cheater that Barry is. Let's not forget that modern science earned him an MVP and a nine figure contract.

[Glengoyne]

...And Jason Giambi is every bit the choad and cheater that Barry is. Let's not forget that modern science earned him an MVP and a nine figure contract.


The difference being that when the testing got more pervaisive, Giambi showed up to camp looking more like a sickly Girls Field Hockey player, than the impressive MVP like player he was the previous season. Bonds showed up looking no different, and performed no less magnificently than in previous years. So While it is obvious to me that while Bonds has used steroids in the past, unless he has continually used them, he is still one hell of an athlete and baseball player. I doubt he would have had the stones to use last year with the expanded testing, and with the Balco undetectable steroid exposed.

[dawgfan]

Let's not also forget that Bonds has a well-documented, rigorous workout regimen that he follows - he didn't get big just taking supplements and sitting around.

[Tigercat]

When I was a baby my grandparents got me some government issued bonds for when I would head to college, I knew they would be worth more than face value, but imagine my surprise when I cashed them in 21 years later for ~150% of face value! That was a good day for me, and my incredibly growing bonds were never injected with or rubbed down with illegal substances.

[PineTar]

The difference being that when the testing got more pervaisive, Giambi showed up to camp looking more like a sickly Girls Field Hockey player, than the impressive MVP like player he was the previous season. Bonds showed up looking no different, and performed no less magnificently than in previous years. So While it is obvious to me that while Bonds has used steroids in the past, unless he has continually used them, he is still one hell of an athlete and baseball player. I doubt he would have had the stones to use last year with the expanded testing, and with the Balco undetectable steroid exposed.

Not refuting the fact that he was arguably the best player (w/ the possible exception of Griffey Jr. in the 90's. But his using HGH is what has made it possible for pundits everywhere to start putting him in the top 2-3 players in the history of the game.

[Glengoyne]

Not refuting the fact that he was arguably the best player (w/ the possible exception of Griffey Jr. in the 90's. But his using HGH is what has made it possible for pundits everywhere to start putting him in the top 2-3 players in the history of the game. I am admittedly sketchy on leaked grand jury testimony, but was HGH "the creme" or "the Clear"? Those are the only two substances Bonds admitted to using, and I don't believe either of them were actually HGH.

[rexallllsc]

Let's not also forget that Bonds has a well-documented, rigorous workout regimen that he follows - he didn't get big just taking supplements and sitting around.

So regimented and rigorous...but he had no idea what "the cream" and "the clear" were, huh? :)