Enigma Puzzle #34

[enigma]

A recently transcribed document reveals cryptic clues, in the grand tradition of Nostradamus, that lead us …one step at a time… where? To the next enigma solution, of course.



Two celebrated men of State, arose from greater fields than most

Pictured together twice before, it’s the former that we seek


The creator, whose name here far mightier than the sword

Heads the group best known for its business


The center of the group, renowned for his colors

Used three initials, the middle name unique


Spoken plainly, its word takes a familiar shape

But here we seek only the male of the species


History knows the name, raiding the high seas

The color of his mount home to mountain waters


Across the land, we curl with those metallic products

Most of all, the one sloganed as a peculiar weapon


That tool strikes rare deadly fear in those balladeered

By a writer who urged we enjoy each and every one


The peer who lent the name was born to another’s namesakes

A more modern retelling made fearsome creatures of them


Their rivals’ great hero took his name from the street

Traced to earlier days, his leader hailed from the woods


A high life reached low point, as tapes were rolling

Find the target of this shame, and enigma is resolved!

[Airhog]

President Carter

Nuff Said!

[cuervo72]

Oddly, my first guess would have been Nixon, not Carter...

[Airhog]

sorry I was just paying homage to another member here :D

[QuikSand]

I'm thinking "…one step at a time…" in the lead means we are supposed to be looking at this as a multi-piece puzzle, rather than just one answer that connects to everything.

[TazFTW]

The creator, whose name here far mightier than the sword

Heads the group best known for its business


Someone named Pen or Penn (William Penn?)

[weinstein7]

The creator, whose name here far mightier than the sword

Heads the group best known for its business


The center of the group, renowned for his colors

Used three initials, the middle name unique

I agree with William Penn for the first one. And ETA Hoffman for the second?

I think the last clue (not quoted) might be in reference to GWB and the recent tapes that were leaked ("high" life).

[WSUCougar]

William Penn was a Quaker...perhaps "Heads the group best known for its business" might refer to Quaker Oatmeal?

[cuervo72]

I'm thinking "…one step at a time…" in the lead means we are supposed to be looking at this as a multi-piece puzzle, rather than just one answer that connects to everything.

Could be, if these are quatrains that follow in a definite order. Like the "center of the group". Said group would probably have to be determined from the previous lines.

That said...for whatever reason, the "center of the group" clue has me stuck on the famous WWII picture of Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin - and FDR of course was known by his initials, and had a very distinct middle name.

[QuikSand]

The creator, whose name here far mightier than the sword

When I read this, I just see a fairly obvious reference to "pen" after name. Perhaps it's William Penn, but a simpler explanation would be that this references a writer's pseudonym, or pen name. "The creator" doesn't seem to link to William Penn in any way that I can see.

Maybe we aren't supposed to solve these in random order, but rather "one step at a time" like the lean-in references. Meaning, maybe, we need something from the first couplet before we can solve the second?

[QuikSand]

Two celebrated men of state, arose from greater fields than most
Pictured together twice before, it’s the former that we seek

I'm thinking this is where we need to focus.

[Buzzbee]

Two celebrated men of state, arose from greater fields than most

Pictured together twice before, it’s the former that we seek

Battlefields? Military? Eisenhower? Grant? Collin Powell? Stormin' Norman?

Just tossin' out ideas.

[mhass]

I'm sure Powell and Schwartzkopf were pictured more than twice together, but I like the battlefield idea. Re: "Pictured" movies? "Patton" and the like? Re: "greater" would indicate larger wars. Or not.

[TazFTW]

But former what? I mean is it pointing to the first picture taken of the two, which has something special about.

[AlexB]

The 'pictured together twice' could be something to do with films, and its the original rather than the sequel that's important?

Then the creator could be the director/producer...

[digamma]

The 'pictured together twice' could be something to do with films, and its the original rather than the sequel that's important?

Then the creator could be the director/producer...
Way off on a tangent...but Morgan Freeman and Clint Eastwood have been in Million Dollar Baby and the Unforgiven together. Morgan Freeman played the President in Deep Impact. Clint Eastwood played a secret service agent in In the Line of Fire. (Two men of state) The Unforgiven was made before Million Dollar Baby.

I'll stop now. I'm going nowhere fast.

[AlexB]

further random thoughts that fit some of the puzzle but not others:

Arthur Penn (mightier than the sword) directed (created?) Bonnie & Clyde

Gene Hackman was in Enemy of the State, was also in Bonnie & Clyde

Clyde Barrow's was the centre of the group & his middle name was Chesnut (fairly unique)

Warren Beatty made Reds

B&C and Reds are the only films Hackman & Beatty have both been in: B&C was the first.

As I say, can't see how this fits everything, but it does fit some of it...

[mhass]

Two celebrated men of state, arose from greater fields than most

Pictured together twice before, it’s the former that we seek


How about The Longest Yard

celebrated - celebrities like Burt Reynolds (roommate Corso perhaps)
state - Florida State? Reynolds. . .
field - football, obviously.
Pictured twice - remake out.

Where that puts me I'm not sure. Next.

[enigma]

The 'pictured together twice' could be something to do with films...
Good lead.

Morgan Freeman played the President in Deep Impact. Clint Eastwood played a secret service agent in In the Line of Fire. (Two men of state)
Right faith, wrong church, wrong pew.



HINT:

In retrospect, one could arguably capitalize a word in the first line to add a clue.

[cuervo72]

Two men who slept with Sally Field?? :p

[AlexB]

Good lead.

Woohoo! I've looked at these for months and a lot of the time not even understood the explanations for the damned things! :)

[enigma]

HINT:

In retrospect, one could arguably capitalize a word in the first line to add a clue.
Well, I thought this was plenty of a hint in itself, but now it's been given to you above. You're on the right track to start at the beginning, and there are components of the guesses so far that get you pretty close to untangling the first segment.

[QuikSand]

Two celebrated men of State, arose from greater fields than most

Pictured together twice before, it’s the former that we seek



I suppose that was the obvious word to be capitalized...

[QuikSand]

"men of State" -- of you capitalize the word State, you make me think it references either:

The U.S. Department of State - so perhaps former Secteraries of State?

or

U.S. States themselves - so perhaps current or former governors? or people who share names with US States (e.g. Washington)

[TazFTW]

Way off on a tangent...but Morgan Freeman and Clint Eastwood have been in Million Dollar Baby and the Unforgiven together. Morgan Freeman played the President in Deep Impact. Clint Eastwood played a secret service agent in In the Line of Fire. (Two men of state) The Unforgiven was made before Million Dollar Baby.

I'll stop now. I'm going nowhere fast.
Gene Hackman has played President in Welcome to Mooseport and Absolute Power (Clint Eastwood). He was also in Unforgiven.

[enigma]

Looks like this is on life support. I'll admit, it's tough to know how hard these are to solve when you're creating them. Sorry if this one proved to be insurmountable.

Some help:

-You're correct to be starting at the beginning

-My earlier hint was trying to suggest that you were in the right general vicinity, but didn't have any of the specifics involved. The general notion of actors and their roles does play a part here, but it does not involved actors who played statesmen or politicial figures.

-Capitalizing "State" was supposed to be a big clue -- in fact, I was reluctant to give it at all. I'm disappointed that it hasn't really started anything rolling... though there has been some worthwhile speculation.

-I remain hopeful that once the first hurdle or two are cleared, the rest will fall more easily than this one. Please don't give up on this puzzle bcause you can't solve the third or last stanza... there ought to be a domino effect after you get soem momentum, I think (hope).

-QS has had some good suggestions so far -- he was just voted "class clown" or something, after all... so he's got that going for him.

[digamma]

"men of State" -- of you capitalize the word State, you make me think it references either:

The U.S. Department of State - so perhaps former Secteraries of State?

or

U.S. States themselves - so perhaps current or former governors? or people who share names with US States (e.g. Washington)
Or perhaps a certain "State" university. Michigan State? Ohio State?

[Buzzbee]

Actors/Performers gone politician?

Ronald Reagan? Clint Eastwood? Sonny Bono?

[cuervo72]

I want to believe that general is italicized for a reason, possibly leading us to former generals who have either been a) presidents or b) Secretaries of State. This would bring up figures such as Washington, Jackson, Grant, Eisenhower, Powell (some of which have already been mentioned). But that has nothing to do with actors or roles, so I'm thinking that's probably a dead end.

The only other thought was that with State being possibly a state university, you could look for coaches, maybe even Penn State's Joe Paterno - linking with the possible Penn connection of the next clue. But I'm thinking that this is probably going in the wrong direction too.

All this is probably reading into a clue that isn't...and neither have anything to do with films.

*shurg*

[enigma]

Actors/Performers gone politician?
Sounds good...

Ronald Reagan? Clint Eastwood? Sonny Bono?
Is that really the best you've got?

[gottimd]

Fred Thompson, current DA, on Law and Order?

[henry296]

How about Arnold?

[cuervo72]

Ugh...Schwarzenagger and Ventura - in The Running Man and Predator...both governors.

[gottimd]

Actors turned politicians


Ronald Reagan - Governor of California, POTUS

Fred Thompson - Tennesse Senator

Sonny Bono - California Congressman

Fred Grandy - Iowa Congressman

Jesse Ventura - Minnesota Governor

Ben Jones - Georgia Congressman

Clint Eastwood - Mayor of Carmel

Jerry Springer - Mayor of Cincinnati and TV anchorman who later gained national fame with his syndicated chat show.

Shirley Temple Black - ran for congress and was defeated, but she was later a delegate to the UN, and served as Ambassador to Ghana and Ambassador to Czechoslovakia.

[Buzzbee]

Ugh...Schwarzenagger and Ventura - in The Running Man and Predator...both governors.
Sounds promising! Heads of State. Heads of Calif. and Minn. Hence the capitalization of State.

Now, would the former be "Running Man" since it came out first? Or Ventura since he was the Gov. first?

[cuervo72]

*If* this continues along an entertainment vein, it could be possible that the second line refers not to William Penn but to someone like Sean Penn maybe? He wrote a couple of screenplays including The Crossing Guard, but I'm not sure how that may tie into the previous clue or the second line of that particular clue.

[cuervo72]

Scratch what I just said about Sean Penn...

If Buzzbee is right, the enigma may indeed be speaking of Running Man, the former of the movies. This is just a wild guess, but maybe we're looking for the author of the book, which would be Stephen King.

Now, King is a part of the "group" the Rock Bottom Remainders, along with guys like Dave Barry, Matt Groenig, etc. I don't know if he leads them, but maybe this is the next step...and if so, who else in the group is reknown for his colors and has an odd middle name?

[Buzzbee]

The creator, whose name here far mightier than the sword

Heads the group best known for its business



Not sure how, but could this in some way be related to Planet Hollywood? When I think of actors and business, that is usually what I think of. Ahnold, Sly and Bruce Wills? Weren't they the founders? Although it seems to falter if we try to stretch it to the next clue.

[cuervo72]

Ok ok ok...disregard my other ramblings.

Assuming we are looking for Stephen King...I guess it is worth noting that he wrote Running Man under a pseudonym or pen name - Richard Bachman. Now...if we're looking for a group involving Bachman instead of King, I'd submit Bachman Turner Overdrive, who happened to produce the song Taking Care of Business.

[TazFTW]

If it is Bachman Turner Overdrive, would the next clue

The center of the group, renowned for his colors

Used three initials, the middle name unique

point to C.F. Turner? He seems to be the only one with a middle initial.

[cuervo72]

Yeah, this is what I was trying to look up on...Turner could be considered the "center" of BTO I suppose, and does have three initials. I have no idea what the 'F' stands for though other than "Fred". The only relation to "color" that I came across was his song Blue Collar, but that part seems like a tenuous reference.

[QuikSand]

Crossword puzzles and other word games often use descriptions like head, front, or top to mean first letter or word of a series. So, I suppose center here could just mean the word in the middle of the BTO group name, just as Bachman "heads" the group.

[WSUCougar]

Assuming we are looking for Stephen King...I guess it is worth noting that he wrote Running Man under a pseudonym or pen name - Richard Bachman. Now...if we're looking for a group involving Bachman instead of King, I'd submit Bachman Turner Overdrive, who happened to produce the song Taking Care of Business.
Bravo, sir!

Even if it isn't correct, this is great deductive reasoning. Edgar Allan Poe would be proud.

[Buzzbee]

Also, could 'center' simply reference the name Turner, rather than specifically C.F. Turner? Ted Turner comes to mind, although I can't see how he is renowned for his colors.

Can anyone think of a painter or animator named Turner? Someone famous for using colors?

Just tossin' out ideas.

[TazFTW]

Ted Turner is famous for colorizing black and white films.

[Buzzbee]

Ted Turner is famous for colorizing black and white films.I had forgotten about that!

EDIT: However, Robert Edward Turner. Nothing unique about that. I also thought of TNT, CNN, TBS, but nothing unique there either.

[Huckleberry]

A recently transcribed document reveals cryptic clues, in the grand tradition of Nostradamus, that lead us …one step at a time… where? To the next enigma solution, of course.



Two celebrated men of State, arose from greater fields than most

Pictured together twice before, it’s the former that we seek

Schwarzenegger and Ventura ---> Running Man

The creator, whose name here far mightier than the sword

Heads the group best known for its business

Richard Bachman --> Bachman Turner Overdrive --> Taking Care of Business

The center of the group, renowned for his colors

Used three initials, the middle name unique

Joseph Mallord Turner was a painter that played with colors. My wife likes his work. I think it looks silly.

Spoken plainly, its word takes a familiar shape

But here we seek only the male of the species

Mallard--->Duck--->Drake?

History knows the name, raiding the high seas

The color of his mount home to mountain waters

Sir Francis Drake?

[Buzzbee]

Damn! Huck jumps in with a splash!

[cuervo72]

Ted Turner and his tampering with films came to mind for me on the way home, but I think Huck is onto it with his line of thinking and getting to Drake.

[cuervo72]

Dola - Drake captained the Golden Hind when he circumnavigated the world. This could point to Golden, Colorado.

[cuervo72]

Across the land, we curl with those metallic products
Most of all, the one sloganed as a peculiar weapon

Thoughts here...curling metallic products has me thinking of barbells, dumbells. Gold's Gym pops to mind, but I'm not sure if that's quite right.

The thing that pops into mind with Golden, CO though is Coors. A "peculiar weapon" that would tie in with Coors, specifically Coors light, would be a silver bullet. Now, if we are curling silver cans of beer, ok. Not 100% on that one though.

(now, "silver bullet" and "balladeered" makes me think of the Silver Bullet Band and Bob Seger, but I'm afraid I'm getting way ahead of myself here.)

[cuervo72]

Ok, me again...the other thing that popped into my mind is that a silver bullet would strike fear in werewolves, possibly balladeered to by Warren Zevon...

[WSUCougar]

The Earl of Sandwich (John Montague) was a peer.

[cuervo72]

Ok, now I'm really straying...but a collection of Zevon's songs is titled Enjoy Every Sandwich...maybe "sandwich" is the next step?

[WSUCougar]

damn time stamp!

[TazFTW]

For easier reference,


Two celebrated men of State, arose from greater fields than most

Pictured together twice before, it’s the former that we seek


The creator, whose name here far mightier than the sword

Heads the group best known for its business


The center of the group, renowned for his colors

Used three initials, the middle name unique


Spoken plainly, its word takes a familiar shape

But here we seek only the male of the species


History knows the name, raiding the high seas

The color of his mount home to mountain waters


Across the land, we curl with those metallic products

Most of all, the one sloganed as a peculiar weapon


That tool strikes rare deadly fear in those balladeered

By a writer who urged we enjoy each and every one


The peer who lent the name was born to another’s namesakes

A more modern retelling made fearsome creatures of them


Their rivals’ great hero took his name from the street

Traced to earlier days, his leader hailed from the woods


A high life reached low point, as tapes were rolling

Find the target of this shame, and enigma is resolved!

[cuervo72]

The "Earl of Sandwich" was born John Montague...for what that's worth.

[WSUCougar]

Ok, Cougar beat me to Montague. There is a Romeo & Juliet tie here, maybe it works.
Yup...Romeo Montague

[cuervo72]

Ok, Cougar beat me to Montague. There is a Romeo & Juliet tie here, maybe it works.

[VPI97]

The peer who lent the name was born to another’s namesakes
A more modern retelling made fearsome creatures of them

Romeo & Juliet --> West Side Story --> Sharks and...


Jets --> greatest hero --> Broadway Joe

Their rivals’ great hero took his name from the street
Traced to earlier days, his leader hailed from the woods

his leader --> Bear Bryant

[TazFTW]

I've tried kobebryant, not the answer.

[cuervo72]

Oh, nice work VPI!

[VPI97]

Oh, nice work VPI! Yeah, but I shot my wad with that lone burp of coherency. I got nothin'

[Buzzbee]

Didn't Bear hit a player on the sideline? Or was that Paterno?

EDIT: If so, the player he hit could be the target of that shame. I tried searching to see if it was Bear, but couldn't find anything so it may not have been.

[TazFTW]

Woody Hayes was the guy who punched a player.

[Buzzbee]

K. Couldn't remeber who it was.



Anyway, I was thinking that the reference to Bear was just to confirm that it was Joe Namath. Thinking that, I thought of the "I want to kiss you" interview as a low point, when tapes were rolling. Suzy Kolber was the target of that desire. Alas. suzykolber did not work.

[VPI97]

Woody Hayes was the guy who punched a player. He punched Charlie Bauman....I tried that earlier.

[enigma]

Well, well. Quite some progress.

[mhass]

I buy Bear Bryant. If we make the leap to Kobe Bryant, the target of the shame is the girl in the hotel. Those who paid attention to that fiasco may know it.

[weinstein7]

If it is Bear Bryant, then perhaps it's referring to the Junction Boys. I've never seen/read it, but maybe somebody who has knows some of the key players/writer/director etc.

[enigma]

The enigma, by its essential nature, values precision.

[QuikSand]

The enigma, by its essential nature, values precision.

Interesting clue... and I have to believe it's a clue, not just an affirmation like before.

[mhass]

I agree. "essential nature" is a little awkward. I was thinking he was pointing us back to the "natural" bear (ursa). But that took me nowhere quick.

[QuikSand]

I'm thinking the key word is precision. Like we have something, just not quite right.

[cuervo72]

Like capitalization?

[QuikSand]

...sign on to FOFC with the username "enigma" using the answer (in all lower case letters, with no spacing) as the password

In case you have sigs turned off (as I do), I think this makes the capitalization issue moot - there shouldn't be any ambiguity there.

[cuervo72]

Oh, I haven't bothered to read it lately, I didn't realize that was in there.

[QuikSand]

But you're right -- one mistake in the password, and the system will recognize it as gibberish, even if you had the right idea.

[mhass]

A high life reached low point, as tapes were rolling

Find the target of this shame, and enigma is resolved!
I'm probably off here, but Bryant was a notorious drinker. Miler "High Life" works, but I don't recall breathalyzer concerns in his era (since they didn't exist). The "precision" comment leads me to something like "point-oh-eight" for a "precise" shame, but I'm probably rambling (and thirsty).

[cuervo72]

Tried 'suzykolber' (again), 'kolber', even 'mikeprice' (hey, worth a shot)...no go. By how the other clues are arranged, it really seems as though we should be focusing on Bryant though - but I just don't know where to take it. I don't know what controversies Bear Bryant was in, and I'm not really sure if it is Kobe what the target here is. I don't think it would be the accuser's name (unless it was just 'accuser'). Not aware of any other Bryant controversies (Anita Bryant (ok, there was the anti-gay stuff way back when)? Bryant Young? Kelvin Bryant?).

[QuikSand]

Anyway, I was thinking that the reference to Bear was just to confirm that it was Joe Namath.

I was thinking this also. Making a precise connection from Joe Namath seems to be the problem.

[Buzzbee]

I was thinking this also. Making a precise connection from Joe Namath seems to be the problem.
Well, I believe it is somehow related to Suzy Kolber, but we just can't get the exact pword. Since enigma mentioned precision, I thought that Suzy Kolber might be too vague or generic and we might need to be more specific. So, I tried suzykolberslips, suzykolberscheek, and sidelinereportersuzykolber but obviously none worked.

I am Watson, but I simply can't pull my nose off the chalkboard in order to see the answer.

[mhass]

For the record, "suzy" and "espn" don't work.

[TazFTW]

iwannakissyou is too long. :)

[Buzzbee]

iwannakissyou is too long. :)
Yeah, I tried iwanttokissyou a while back and it didn't work either.

[enigma]

The enigma offers humblest apologies for the error of precision on his own part.

The mantle has changed hands. Details forthcoming, but please worry no more.

[enigma]

Enigma #34 Solution



As suggested by the lead-in, this was intended to be a step-by-step puzzle, where the only logical way to solve the oblique references would be to get them from first to last. (This may have been a tough undertaking, in retrospect) So, we get the most to work with in the first couplet, and hopefully each answer feeds into the next one…



Two celebrated men of state, arose from greater fields than most

Pictured together twice before, it’s the former that we seek



Men of state refers to well-known GOVERNORS of US States, both defeating fields with more than two major candidates – suggesting JESSE VENTURA and ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER. As actors, they were in two movies together, the first of which was THE RUNNING MAN



The creator, whose name here far mightier than the sword

Heads the group best known for its business



The author of The Running Man was Stephen King …using the “mightier-than-sword” PEN NAME name of RICHARD BACHMAN. That name leads the band BACHMAN TURNER OVERDRIVE, best known for song “Taking Care of Business”



The center of the group, renowned for his colors

Used three initials, the middle name unique



The middle word in BTO is TURNER, also the name of notable watercolor artist JMW TURNER. From the initials JMW, the M stands for the unusual name MALLORD



Spoken plainly, its word takes a familiar shape

But here we seek only the male of the species



Spoken plainly, MALLORD sounds like MALLARD, a well-known type of duck

A male duck is more properly called a DRAKE



History knows the name, raiding the high seas

The color of his mount home to mountain waters



SIR FRANCIS DRAKE, historical privateer, piloted the ship THE GOLDEN HIND, whose color is the same as the city of GOLDEN, COLORADO, whose waters are frequently hawked in advertisements



Across the land, we curl with their metallic products

Most of all, the one sloganed as a peculiar weapon



GOLDEN is home to COORS BREWERY, whose products we “curl,” the most popular being Coors Light, frequently called THE SILVER BULLET



That tool strikes rare deadly fear in those balladeered

By a writer who urged we enjoy each and every one



A silver bullet is a legendary means to slay a WEREWOLF, who was the subject of a notable song by WARREN ZEVON, whose final album was titled ENJOY EVERY SANDWICH



The peer who lent the name was born to another’s namesakes

A more modern retelling made fearsome creatures of them



Sandwiches were named for THE EARL OF SANDWICH, whose given name was JOHN MONTAGUE, sharing the same last name as famous literary character ROMEO MONTAGUE, of Romeo and Juliet, much later retold as WEST SIDE STORY, where the Montagues became the SHARKS



Their rivals’ great hero took his name from the street

Traced to earlier days, his leader hailed from the woods



The Sharks’ rivals were the JETS, and the football team of the same name’s greatest hero was JOE NAMATH, whose nickname was BROADWAY JOE. Namath went to Alabama, where he was coached by PAUL “BEAR” BRYANT



A high life reached low point, as tapes were rolling

Find the target of this shame, and enigma is resolved!



Poor JOE, last year, made an ass of himself during an on-air interview, as he drunkenly fawned over and practically groped sideline reporter SUZY KOLBER, the unfortunate target of his momentary affections.





Thus, the answer to this step-by-step puzzle is, and you’ll need correct spelling, which managed to evade enigma himself...



suzykolber

[cuervo72]

So, how did enigma spell it?

[Buzzbee]

Hmph. That's a pisser. I finally get close to getting one and get screwed up by a spelling error.

[enigma]

So, how did enigma spell it?
Not sure. Old enigma must of changed it after realizing the mistake. suzykolber worked.

[VPI97]

So, how did enigma spell it?stuartscott

[Buzzbee]

stuartscottOh, so enigma was a UVA grad. That 'splains it. ;)



EDIT: VPI - which dynamic server are you hitting now? I'm guessing it isn't dynamic2, since I had to delete my previous post due to the timestamp issue. Might want to hit dynamic2 to save some aggravation.

(Servers are set to different times, with dynamic2 set 5-6 minutes ahead of the others)

[QuikSand]

so... is someone in charge here?

[mhass]

Take it, QS. I'm in the mood.

[QuikSand]

going... going...