Counterfeit Minis. . .

[hhiipp]

Over the last few days I've started seeing several commercials about people counterfeiting Mini Coopers. At first I thought it was some sort of parody commercial and they were actually going to advertise something else, but they never did. So I'm watching this thing and they go on and on about how the paint jobs are different, the sizes are different etc, and they give their website hxxp://www.counterfeitmini.com where they are trying to sell you a video for $20 to help you spot if a mini is a counterfeit.

Are minis so popular here in the US that this is really necessary? And even more importantly is this such a huge deal that it warrants trying to sell a video? Anyone else catch these commercials?

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's pure spoof.

For its client, Mini, Crispin Porter + Bogusky, it seems, has created a site for a ficticious group called Counter Counterfeit Commission, an organization whose apparent mission is to rid the world of counterfeit products. The site has a photo collection of tricked out vehicles purported to be fake Minis. It also has video footage of a police dogs sniffing out fake Minis trying to make their way into the country, a $19.99 consumer alert DVD detailing the apparent underworld of counterfeit Minis and even a phone number answered with a message machine by a guy code named "Bosco" claiming to be doing undercover work in Brazil and Copacabana.

The site is engaging enough with tips on how to detect a fake, an area to upload photos of fakes and rate their fakeness quotient and a victim support area where those who've been had can get support materials.

http://www.adrants.com/2005/02/mini-cooper-promoted-with-counterfeit.php

[Blackadar]

That has got to be a joke...

[Ksyrup]

Oooh, now I want a Mini! :rolleyes:

[MikeVick7]

Must be nice to be able just to throw around money on TV commercials just for a joke...

[QuikSand]

...or maybe the purpose is to get people talking and thinking about your product?

[Ksyrup]

...or maybe the purpose is to get people talking and thinking about your product?
Of course it is, but I reject the idea that that gets people (or at least me) to considering buying the product. The Mini isn't new, so I don't need to be "informed" of its existence. I've seen it, ridden in it (my brother in law has one), and have decided it isn't for me. And no amount of clever campaigning is going to change my mind.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a waste of money. But at least it's not my money and I have a remote control, so they can do as they please.

[Ksyrup]

And yes, I have an unhealthy hatred for commercials and marketing in general.

[QuikSand]

But you do have to recognize that there is value in advertising, generally.

Some years ago, Hershey's made a decision along the lines you might suggest. Everyone knows about Hershey bars. Why bother to avertise them? So they stopped, for a year or so, as I recall. (It's possible this whole story is apocryphal, I confess, i heard it secondhand)

What happened? Sales of Hershey bars dropped significantly. Even for a product that everyone knows about, it just turns out that people who are browsing the candy aisle sometimes, at some level, respond to what they have been told or reminded of... and without a recent reminder of Hershey bars, they bought other candy instead.

This shouldn't come as a huge surprise to anyone, really. But it reinforces the notion that the billiobs spent on advertising is not wholly or even largely misguided -- it serves its purpose. Which is not to say that every ad spot is brilliant, just that generic disparagement of the entire concept is essentially without merit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This has apparently been a topic of conversation in some ad circles since the spots started airing.

Judging from the comments I've seen, this is pretty much what the client wanted -- something offbeat, quirky, odd. They seem to be reveling in the bizarre nature of the spot, commenting roughly to the effect that "Mini drivers/potential Mini drivers will get the spot and that's all there worried about".

I've only seen it once, and that was at like 2am somewhere, History Channel maybe.
Clearly, I'm not the target for the spot, since I think the vehicle itself is about as weird as the commercial, but this doesn't seem like all that strange a situation in adv/mktg -- sometimes the "right spot" is the one the client wants ... no matter what you personally think of it. I kinda get the feeling that this is one of those situations, where the client deserves more of the blame than the agency/creatives. Most agencies aren't in the situation that I'm in, where you can ultimately choose to walk away from a client if they are hell bent on doing something incredibly stupid.

Also, given when & where I saw the spot, I have a feeling that there may be another classic error in marketing in progress -- they blew the budget on the creative process & didn't leave enough budget to actually air the spot effectively/adequately.
And that will kill your ass like a charging rhino.

[Klinglerware]

Of course it is, but I reject the idea that that gets people (or at least me) to considering buying the product. The Mini isn't new, so I don't need to be "informed" of its existence. I've seen it, ridden in it (my brother in law has one), and have decided it isn't for me. And no amount of clever campaigning is going to change my mind.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a waste of money. But at least it's not my money and I have a remote control, so they can do as they please.

But you are talking about it. By posting on this message board you are spreading the word about the Mini. I hadn't thought about the Mini today until I came across your post.

Of course you have made your decision about the Mini, the advertisers don't really care about you anymore--but the fact you are even talking about it at all is bonus points for them. By posting on the board, you are disseminating their message for them...

[Ksyrup]

But you do have to recognize that there is value in advertising, generally.

Some years ago, Hershey's made a decision along the lines you might suggest. Everyone knows about Hershey bars. Why bother to avertise them? So they stopped, for a year or so, as I recall. (It's possible this whole story is apocryphal, I confess, i heard it secondhand)

What happened? Sales of Hershey bars dropped significantly. Even for a product that everyone knows about, it just turns out that people who are browsing the candy aisle sometimes, at some level, respond to what they have been told or reminded of... and without a recent reminder of Hershey bars, they bought other candy instead.

This shouldn't come as a huge surprise to anyone, really. But it reinforces the notion that the billiobs spent on advertising is not wholly or even largely misguided -- it serves its purpose. Which is not to say that every ad spot is brilliant, just that generic disparagement of the entire concept is essentially without merit.
Yes, I understand all of that. And I acknowledge that somehow, for some reason, advertising affects people in that manner. I just don't think I'm one of them. The only ads I respond to with my money are those that actually inform me about a new product. I don't decide to buy something based on the last ad I saw for the general type of product.

For example, we're in the market for a new camcorder. I've seen an ad or two recently, but (a) I couldn't tell you which company it was for; and (b) regardless if I could, I'm still doing independent research to decide which one to buy. The ads did nothing to draw me to a particular brand, or evn then idea of buying one (the old one is about to die (8 years old), so we're being proactive, what with a 9 month old on the verge of walking).

Other ads I might have humorous or enjoy for whatever reason, but I don't necessarily see that it leads me to buy that product. And believe me, I actually keep (mental) track of things like this, just because advertising bugs me so much. I've found plenty of beer commercials to be funny, yet I still don't drink beer, nor have I had even an inkling of an idea to try some great new alcoholic product.

Of course I say all of this, only to be confronted, I bet, with a study that shows how I subconsiously buy everything I see on TV, regardless of what I think.

[Ksyrup]

But you are talking about it. By posting on this message board you are spreading the word about the Mini. I hadn't thought about the Mini today until I came across your post.

Of course you have made your decision about the Mini, the advertisers don't really care about you anymore--but the fact you are even talking about it at all is bonus points for them. By posting on the board, you are disseminating their message for them...
OK, then testing the addage that all free publicity is good publicity, let me just say that I found the car to be incredibly gimmicky-looking, both inside and out, and so cramped that I couldn't recommend it to anyone.

I also think the Scion B, which my father-in-law owns (in that crap burnt orange color, no less), is the ugliest freaking thing I've seen on the road in quite a long time. But at least it's roomier than the Mini.

I hope they enjoyed their publicity. Pass it along.

[QuikSand]

Of course I say all of this, only to be confronted, I bet, with a study that shows how I subconsiously buy everything I see on TV, regardless of what I think.

Probably. I reckon we all do, more or less.

[QuikSand]

OK, then testing the addage that all free publicity is good publicity, let me just say that I found the car to be incredibly gimmicky-looking, both inside and out, and so cramped that I couldn't recommend it to anyone.

But you have only felt that way. So, this product doesn't appeal to everyone. No surprise to anyone.

However, there ARE people who like this product. It's popular, for whatever reason. And if their ads get more people talking about them... then perhaps there will be more and more people who become persuaded that this car is trendy, or otherwise appealing. That's how you do it, isn't it?

I don't like the little boxes either, and the ad isn't going to make a damned bit of difference with me, either. But I also recognize (as do you, I'm sure) that not every potential consumer thinks precisely like I do.

[Ksyrup]

Probably. I reckon we all do, more or less.
I don't know. I mean, in one sense, if the most popular products are all on TV, then of course we do, because there isn't much of an alternative when you go to the store. But as far as specifically buying what we see, or changing our buying habits, because of a new ad, I just don't think it happens as much as the ad people believe it does. Or at least, I know it doesn't with me.

Like I said, ads that provide information as to new products are genuinely helpful. And that information certainly factors into purchasing decisions I might make, be it a new type of soap or a 2006 model car. But beyond that, ads for Dominoes or Sears and the like have never made me get up off the couch and decide I need to call Dominoes or run out and shop at Sears. We all know Sears exists, and if it happens to be at the mall I'm at and they carry what I need, and if I parked on that side of the mall or we've walked over there, then maybe I'll go in. But I just don't see that being because of ads. And with Dominoes, I haven't had Dominoes in about a decade, and no about of ads are going to make me decide to buy anything other than Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, or Momo's. Just the way it is.

[Ksyrup]

But I also recognize (as do you, I'm sure) that not every potential consumer thinks precisely like I do.
Which is precisely the problem, I think. :D

[QuikSand]

Just the way it is.

Sure, you or I could easily chery-pick all sorts of companies that are so far away from our marginal decision-making that their advertisements mean nothing to us. Of course. I'm not going to start using Summer's Eve products anytime soon, even if their next commercial series features Charlize Theron. (Who, incidentally, could probably talk me into jumping off a bridge)

But for every obvious case like that, there are probably plenty of cases which are more borderline. I stand in the grocery store, and try to decide whether to buy the name brand or the cheaper generic stuff -- on what do I make that decision? Sure, sometimes I have a meaningful experience to base that on... I tried rthe generic and it was awful. But plenty of the time, I'm making a judgment call -- is this brand good and reliable enough to pay extra for? We do this all the time, with countless products, in countless circumsances. Millions and millions of consumer decisions every day come down to this sort of thing -- and it's just common sense that any sort of positive reinforcement attached to that brand name might make teh difference with some of those people, some of the time. Even if it was just a dumb ad telling me that "Choosy Moms" chose this brand of peanut butter, or whatever. There is undeniably a cumulative effect of advertising and product promotion -- and when it happens to us, in many cases we don't even see it.

Everyone knows McDonald's sells a quarter pounder with cheese. But if they run a two week TV campaign featuring that product, guarantee that there will be an uptick in sales of them. Sure, some will be cannibalized off their other products... but I'm also positive that some people, somewhere, will drive past a Burger King and decide instead to get a QPC.

Simply put, the behavior of large numbers of people means that incremental effects will, in fact, show up in the actual outcomes. If the entire economy was just you and me, then plenty of these ads wouldn't affect anything at all. But the entire economy includes tons and tons of people who have a whole different set of values and preferences than you and I do... and somewhere out there, somebody watched this ad and thought to himself "fake minis... heh... I guess a lot of people are driving those... I guess they are kinda cool..." and at the end of the line, some of those people are going to buy one one day.

[gstelmack]

Some years ago, Hershey's made a decision along the lines you might suggest. Everyone knows about Hershey bars. Why bother to avertise them? So they stopped, for a year or so, as I recall. (It's possible this whole story is apocryphal, I confess, i heard it secondhand)

What happened? Sales of Hershey bars dropped significantly. Even for a product that everyone knows about, it just turns out that people who are browsing the candy aisle sometimes, at some level, respond to what they have been told or reminded of... and without a recent reminder of Hershey bars, they bought other candy instead.
Hershey bars != new car. Candy is often bought as an impulse buy, where I suspect advertising has a greater impact. But for items like cars, where the advent of the internet has made research that much easier and where people spend time thinking about it, I wonder if advertising has the same impact, beyond making you aware of a new brand to consider.

[Ragone]

My first thoughts was this was gonna be about counterfeit ipod mini's.. useless, they should line up all the mini coopers and run them over with a monster truck

[Ksyrup]

and somewhere out there, somebody watched this ad and thought to himself "fake minis... heh... I guess a lot of people are driving those... I guess they are kinda cool..." and at the end of the line, some of those people are going to buy one one day.
Which, I guess, is the whole point of my ranting/commenting, because decision-making like that is just so foreign to me, I have a hard time understanding it.

I was never really affected by peer pressure, and to some extent, that's what ads are. "Buy this, everyone else is! Look at how cool Mr. Move Star is - he uses this!"

[QuikSand]

Do you really think there are people walking around saying to themselves "I saw this on TV, and that commercial made me think this is a good product because a movie star uses it, so I'm going to buy it."

I have to think this operates on a level deeper than that. We're a step or two beyond the drive-in movie advertisement for "hot, buttery, popcorn... mmmmmm..."

[Klinglerware]

Hershey bars != new car. Candy is often bought as an impulse buy, where I suspect advertising has a greater impact. But for items like cars, where the advent of the internet has made research that much easier and where people spend time thinking about it, I wonder if advertising has the same impact, beyond making you aware of a new brand to consider.

Really, for the high end goods, the main purpose of the advertising is to stimulate you into thinking about the product. For high expenditure things like cars, nobody really believes that you will buy a product solely on an advertised spot. Basically, all they expect is that the spot will get you to think about the car and start doing your research if you are in the market, and if it potentially meets your needs, get you at least into the showroom.

Even if the advertising doesn't really say much, the car companies have to do it, since there are multiple competitors no matter the car type. It is a way of saying, "hey, we exist."

[sooner333]

I don't know. I mean, in one sense, if the most popular products are all on TV, then of course we do, because there isn't much of an alternative when you go to the store. But as far as specifically buying what we see, or changing our buying habits, because of a new ad, I just don't think it happens as much as the ad people believe it does. Or at least, I know it doesn't with me.

Like I said, ads that provide information as to new products are genuinely helpful. And that information certainly factors into purchasing decisions I might make, be it a new type of soap or a 2006 model car. But beyond that, ads for Dominoes or Sears and the like have never made me get up off the couch and decide I need to call Dominoes or run out and shop at Sears. We all know Sears exists, and if it happens to be at the mall I'm at and they carry what I need, and if I parked on that side of the mall or we've walked over there, then maybe I'll go in. But I just don't see that being because of ads. And with Dominoes, I haven't had Dominoes in about a decade, and no about of ads are going to make me decide to buy anything other than Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, or Momo's. Just the way it is.

Well, maybe the point is that Dominoes or Sears don't want you to just jump up and go, but that next time you crave pizza or need a tool set, you say "I'm hungry for pizza, I should call Dominoes" or "I need a measuring tape, we need to go to Sears, honey". Of course, this all would happen sub-conciously, knowing you need to go to Sears for the tools or Dominoes for the pizza. It becomes your first choice because you were reminded earlier of where to go for the product. Now, if you know Dominoes sucks, then you don't go there. Or if you know that the Ace down the street has comprable products rather than the Sears at the mall across town, the advertising means nothing, but it still helps get that first choice and maybe stops people from thinking about the competitors.

[Ksyrup]

Do you really think there are people walking around saying to themselves "I saw this on TV, and that commercial made me think this is a good product because a movie star uses it, so I'm going to buy it."

I have to think this operates on a level deeper than that. We're a step or two beyond the drive-in movie advertisement for "hot, buttery, popcorn... mmmmmm..."Why else use a recognizable face to advertise? Why make a conscious effort to stop showing smoking in movies if it has no affect on those watching it?

To answer your question, yes I believe a small portion of people are like that. The majority appear to still be affected by it, albeit in a less noticeable way.

Marketing is, to me, like science. It's something I acknowledge exists and that apparently works, but I can't for the life of me explain why, even if you sit me down and draw me a diagram (even a flhere diagram). I understand the theory, I just don't get why it works in practice. I understand the need to advertise new/revised products, because people need to know that something exists before they can buy it. I don't get why repetitive advertising, or on the flip side, the lack of advertising, should materially affect what gets bought.

Maybe I just know what I like and what I will buy, so much so that I don't really see a reason to change my mind. Or, that when I buy a candy bar, the first thing I care about is what is going to taste good to me at that particular moment. Or that if store X has something I need cheaper than a store I usually go to, I'll head to the other store that week.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't get why repetitive advertising, or on the flip side, the lack of advertising, should materially affect what gets bought.

That's an easy one -- top-of-mind-awareness.

In a number of product categories (more than you'd think & some that still surprise even me), that's the number one factor influencing the purchase decision ... simply "what brand did I think of first".

There's a lot of things that influencing purchasing -- price point, brand image, packaging, brand loyalty, past experience with brand, the list goes on & on -- but for an awful lot of things, none of those trump top-of-mind.

Beer advertising is a pretty good example -- it isn't about getting people to drink more, it's about influencing which beer they drink. Studies over the past 20 years or so have shown that advertising has relatively little impact on alcohol consumption, that it's really just a brand shifter (contrary to what handwringers like to claim).

Although it's actually focused on a different subject, there's a line in this that sums it up pretty well http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/Publications/impact/vol3_31.htm
"Across the entire sample and regardless of culture, brand name was the strongest influence on buying decisions, followed by price, physical appearance and retailer reputation."
That's not about beer, btw, it's about products in general.

In spite of some of the negative impact it can have, I believe there's an awful lot of products/brands out there who really want to reach the point of being "the generic name" -- like Kleenex for all tissues, Xerox for all copies, heck, like Escalator was originally for "moving staircase" -- even though it's something that can bite your product in the butt, I believe it's become a subconscious goal for a number of decision-makers out there today.

[stevew]

I hate this damn ad.

[SirFozzie]

Bah. No mention of fake warhammer or even heroclix figures. False advertising :D

[Desnudo]

Do you really think there are people walking around saying to themselves "I saw this on TV, and that commercial made me think this is a good product because a movie star uses it, so I'm going to buy it."

I have to think this operates on a level deeper than that. We're a step or two beyond the drive-in movie advertisement for "hot, buttery, popcorn... mmmmmm..."

Your post is making me hanker for some hot and buttery popcorn.

[Maple Leafs]

There are certain things that are true about all people:
- We all think we're better-than-average drivers
- We all think we have a better-than-average sense of humor
- We all think that advertising/marketing doesn't work on us.

Funny that people would spend trillions of dollars every year on something that doesn't work on anyone. They're just dumb, I guess.

[Anthony]

In my mind commercials are only useful for impulse-quality products, things that you can buy easily.

for major purchases like cars or computers, i don't think there is a sane person around who'd buy these thigns without even minimal research. i don't buy anything over $100 without researching - and i can afford to waste $100. just the principal of knowing i made the best purchase for my money. but anyway there's a reason why you don't see commercials to go buy a house. or Lamborghini's. those are commodities you will buy regardless of whether they're advertised. you're not going to be watching a car commercial for like Honda early one day and decide that it's a good time to go buy a car.

it's all for brand awareness. people feel better knowing they're buying a product that has "name value". we attach name value to anything we see on tv. if we have to choose between a candy bar that has a commercial for it and one that has a mega marketing campaign - we'll most likely choose the one with the commercials. subconsiously we think if it's on tv it must be better. so every company feels they have to make a commercial to put their brand name out there.

if all they want to do is make me aware of their product, fine, mission accomplished. but i think at some level these ad companies think the old rules still apply, the ole if you show it they will buy school of thought.

[albionmoonlight]

. . . and 35% of people think that they are or soon will be in the top 1% of income.

As far as ads go, I think that they work to shape people's perceptions in ways that we don't even realize. Products in a flooded marketplace need to keep shouting in order to define and keep their place.

Think about if you are going to a friends BBQ and you need to bring some beer. Depending on the kind of BBQ it is, and the kind of impression you want to make, you may bring one of the following choices:

Milwakee's Best, Schaffers, etc.: The cheapest beers out there. You won't win any style points, but if all that matters is the provision of alcohol, you will have saved some money.

Budwiser, Coors Light, Miller Lite, etc.: Mid-range beers. You are not a beer snob, but you also think that your friends deserve better than The Beast.

Sam Adams, Heniken, etc: "High end" beer. You are willing to pay a little extra to get your friends the best.

Now, I will be the first to admit that some beers are better than others. And I don't really want to get into the merits of that. However, I think that you can admit that, on some level, that grouping above is based on the way that beers market themselves to us--not on the inherent quality of the beer. You think of Budweiser as a certain type of beer. If they did not flood the airwaves, you would not.

Keeping on the beer theme, a few months ago, people on here were criticizing the "Coldest Beer on the Planet" ads by Coors Light. "Tempature is not taste," you said. "The tempature at which beer is sold has nothing to do with the type of beer it is, but on the fridge at the bar." Indeed, some more knowledgable people said that frost brewing makes for worse beer than heat pasturizing, which is why almost all brewers heat pasturize. All of these things are true (at least, I assume that the last point is true).

However, don't you think that, when it is a hot summer day, and a guy walks into a bar, that he might subconciously think "I'm hot; I need a beer to cool me down." Or as he is planning that 4th of July BBQ, he pictures himself by the hot grill and decides to pick up some Coors Light instead of Miller. How many people need to think of Coors as "the beer that you drink when you are hot," before that ad campaign pays dividends? It may not stand up to thoughtful analysis, but people don't give much thoughtful analysis to purchases.

[Ksyrup]

That's an easy one -- top-of-mind-awareness.

In a number of product categories (more than you'd think & some that still surprise even me), that's the number one factor influencing the purchase decision ... simply "what brand did I think of first".

There's a lot of things that influencing purchasing -- price point, brand image, packaging, brand loyalty, past experience with brand, the list goes on & on -- but for an awful lot of things, none of those trump top-of-mind.

Beer advertising is a pretty good example -- it isn't about getting people to drink more, it's about influencing which beer they drink. Studies over the past 20 years or so have shown that advertising has relatively little impact on alcohol consumption, that it's really just a brand shifter (contrary to what handwringers like to claim).

Although it's actually focused on a different subject, there's a line in this that sums it up pretty well http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/Publications/impact/vol3_31.htm
"Across the entire sample and regardless of culture, brand name was the strongest influence on buying decisions, followed by price, physical appearance and retailer reputation."
That's not about beer, btw, it's about products in general.

In spite of some of the negative impact it can have, I believe there's an awful lot of products/brands out there who really want to reach the point of being "the generic name" -- like Kleenex for all tissues, Xerox for all copies, heck, like Escalator was originally for "moving staircase" -- even though it's something that can bite your product in the butt, I believe it's become a subconscious goal for a number of decision-makers out there today.

I don't dispute any of this, I just am not seeing it occur. We went grocery shopping on Saturday, and I just mentally went through 2 dozen products we bought, and not one was bought because of brand recognition. That's not to say we didn't gravitate towards branded items, but it's more of a "brand vs. generic" thing than "brand vs. brand." Our choice of a specific brand was based more on previous experience/history, pricing, and/or just plain old "pick one" than anything else. Some of it was based on preference at that moment.

For example, my choice between Diet Lime Coke and that new diet Dr. Pepper flavor was made because I bought Dr. Pepper last time and wanted something different, not because I happened to see a Coke commercial right before I walked out the door. If pop commercials are similar to beer commercials, then I don't see it happening that way. I have about 4 different types of pop I drink, and I alternate my purchases weekly. When something new comes out, I'll try it, and add it to the rotation if I like it. I'm not constantly buying one thing week after week simply because I keep seeing commercials for it. And when choosing between brands like Del Monte and Dole, it's really a matter of which one I see first on the shelf, or which one has exactly what I'm looking for, if they don't have identical products.

Bottom line, at least in my mind, aside from specific experience with a brand which has either made me more or less likely to buy that brand, I'm more likely to buy on first sight than first thought, all other things being equal.