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View Full Version : Israeli Army frowns on D&D players

Arles
03-09-2005, 01:23 PM
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles//0,7340,L-3052074,00.html

Does the Israel Defense Forces believe incoming recruits and soldiers who play Dungeons and Dragons are unfit for elite units? Ynetnews has learned that 18-year-olds who tell recruiters they play the popular fantasy game are automatically given low security clearance.

“They're detached from reality and suscepitble to influence,” the army says

"These people have a tendency to be influenced by external factors which could cloud their judgment, a military official says. "They may be detached from reality or have a weak personality – elements which lower a person's security clearance, allowing them to serve in the army, but not in sensitive positions."
I don't buy it. Tell me these guys aren't based in reality. They'd make a great army:
http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/01082004/514191/saga4145_m.jpg
http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/01082004/514181/saga4083_a.jpg

:p
sachmo71
03-09-2005, 01:25 PM
I have a weak personality.
Arles
03-09-2005, 01:31 PM
BTW, this article was found by Farrah - so she gets the credit ;)
wishbone
03-09-2005, 01:33 PM
I thought it said DVD players and was thinking "they have to make a statement that watching a movie while on duty is a bad thing?" Thank goodness that the truth was more believable.
RendeR
03-09-2005, 01:34 PM
Fuck them, there is nothing detaching or weak minded about using one's imagination and flexing the brain to create and think tactically on the fly.

fear mongering religious freaks who can't appreciate the real strength of a creative mind.
Ksyrup
03-09-2005, 01:38 PM
I'd give some text sim players low security clearance, if the criteria is detachment from reality.
RendeR
03-09-2005, 01:40 PM
I don't see it as detachment from reality. Think about it, how focused do text sim players become on their games? how critical of every minute detail do some people get?

Take that level of focus and apply it to military training and tactical decision making.

These people should be in CHARGE.
Ksyrup
03-09-2005, 01:45 PM
Maybe they've seen the Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! video and are understandably worried.
SirFozzie
03-09-2005, 01:45 PM
BTW, this article was found by Farrah - so she gets the credit ;)


you mean she reads slashdot, Arlie?

The horror! THE HORROR!
Arles
03-09-2005, 01:50 PM
I think she got it off fark.com
RendeR
03-09-2005, 01:51 PM
Maybe they've seen the Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! video and are understandably worried.



Bah, ignore me and my foul mood. I'm just sick to death of the eternal bashing of anyone who partakes in games, role playing, tabletop, or otherwise which somehow intimidate them or their belief system.

There is no statistical proof that people who enjoy such games and activities are any better or worse at anything than those who do not partake in them. The vast majority of articles and comments I've come across over the years like this one are baseless and are written more to denounce something they, for whatever reason dislike or fear due to their own (most often) religious beliefs.

Honestly I've never seen the "lightning bolt" video. I'm assuming its a satirical comedy film about a bunch of geeks playing D&D?

Not everyone who plays such games are geeks or losers.

Then again, maybe my own inherint distrust and dislike of Isreal is tainting my reaction somewhat.
gstelmack
03-09-2005, 01:56 PM
Honestly I've never seen the "lightning bolt" video. I'm assuming its a satirical comedy film about a bunch of geeks playing D&D?
Oh my. It wasn't intended to be a satirical comedy film, it was more a home video of a group playing D&D that turned into a satirical comedy film (without any editing) as more and more people viewed it.
Ksyrup
03-09-2005, 01:56 PM
hxxp://www.squizzle.com/movieview.asp?id=647
RendeR
03-09-2005, 02:01 PM
Wow, so people who have the ambition, and the creativity to come up with a script, create the costuming and correagraph a scene are something to insult and make fun of.

While I see the ease of which people could jump on the hilarity bandwagon, I'm still rather sickened by it.

Society creates hate and intolerance.

Fuck Society.
Ksyrup
03-09-2005, 02:04 PM
Wow, so people who have the ambition, and the creativity to come up with a script, create the costuming and correagraph a scene are something to insult and make fun of.
In the manner in which they did it, yes. Sorry my sense of humor offends you. I''ll get back to you when I stop laughing.
Bee
03-09-2005, 02:08 PM
Well my D&D game consists of 2 lawyers, a guy with a pHD in biochemistry, a Division Manager for the Red Cross also with a pHD, and a VP of an engineering company...oh and a cook (don't ask). I wouldn't consider any of them losers or weak personalities...ok maybe the cook...:D
rkmsuf
03-09-2005, 02:08 PM
Yes, yes. The tennis ball was particulary creative as the lightning bolt.
sachmo71
03-09-2005, 02:15 PM
I think Ren is having a bad day.

Ren, I am as big of a stealth geek as you will find, and I found it funny, too. :)
MacroGuru
03-09-2005, 02:35 PM
I echo this sentiment I saw posted on User Friendly


Although the article does a crappy job of reporting. The pictures were all for LARP, which bears little to no resemblance to D&D. D&D is a pen/paper game which is played out largely in the mind. LARP (Live-Action Role-Play) is dress-up.

I don't LARP - playing a mind-game on paper and practicing character acting skills is one thing, dressing up and doing it in a performing arts sort of way - not my cup of tea.
sterlingice
03-09-2005, 02:36 PM
Well my D&D game consists of 2 lawyers, a guy with a pHD in biochemistry, a Division Manager for the Red Cross also with a pHD, and a VP of an engineering company...oh and a cook (don't ask). I wouldn't consider any of them losers or weak personalities...ok maybe the cook...:D Is the cook Steven Seagal?

SI
Sharpieman
03-09-2005, 03:31 PM
Don't the vast majority of people in the world already frown down on D&D players?
Ksyrup
03-09-2005, 03:33 PM
And most can't get security clearance for the office microwave.
Marc Vaughan
03-09-2005, 03:37 PM
Wow, so people who have the ambition, and the creativity to come up with a script, create the costuming and correagraph a scene are something to insult and make fun of.

While I see the ease of which people could jump on the hilarity bandwagon, I'm still rather sickened by it.

Society creates hate and intolerance.

Fuck Society.

As someone who was a very active role player (and still would be if there were groups around here) I found it funny all the same ..... and yes I used to live role play also (as a student there's nothing quite so much fun as running around dressed as a warrior in woodland when old ladies are walking their dogs :D ... yes I know I've a warped sense of humour, but then again so did a lot of the old ladies we came across ;) ).
Marc Vaughan
03-09-2005, 03:39 PM
Don't the vast majority of people in the world already frown down on D&D players?
I've never understood this myself - after all people don't have a 'downer' on kids playing 'cowboys and indians' ... same thing different age group (ditto for text sims imho, I've described CM/FM as a sports management role playing game for quite a while - as a kid you imagine being one of the star players, as you get older your games become more sophisticated and to combat the fact that in your heart of heart you realise there's a chance that Brighton might not sign an unfit 32 year old defender you pretent to be a 'manager' at the club instead).
Franklinnoble
03-09-2005, 04:22 PM
So, I suppose I shouldn't mention my robe and wizard hat if I'm interviewing for any federal jobs requiring a security clearance?
HomerJSimpson
03-09-2005, 09:40 PM
So, I suppose I shouldn't mention my robe and wizard hat if I'm interviewing for any federal jobs requiring a security clearance?


Your fine as long as the job is not with the Isreali government. Shoot, I bet Condeleeza Rice has played a half-elf a time or two.
Franklinnoble
03-09-2005, 09:51 PM
Your fine as long as the job is not with the Isreali government. Shoot, I bet Condeleeza Rice has played a half-elf a time or two.

Quick... somebody photoshop Condi with a wizard hat...

Hubba-hubba!
lighthousekeeper
03-09-2005, 10:56 PM
"These people....have a weak personality – elements which lower a person's security clearance, allowing them to serve in the army, but not in sensitive positions."


If they have a weak personality, can't they just re-role and start again?
Dutch
03-09-2005, 11:41 PM
So, does this mean the Arabs have been letting D&D guys into their armies for decades?
Vinatieri for Prez
03-10-2005, 12:22 AM
Am I the only one amazed that the guy took 8 lightning bolt and 2 sleep spells before he went down. That is some serious "constitution" and "hit points" going on there. :D
Neon_Chaos
03-10-2005, 12:42 AM
well. Vin Diesel is a big D&D nut.
KeyserSoze
03-10-2005, 04:09 AM
Yeah . You need a much stronger personality to sit and watch the tv hours and hours day in day out.
Marc Vaughan
03-10-2005, 05:10 AM
Yeah . You need a much stronger personality to sit and watch the tv hours and hours day in day out.
I agree - looking back on my childhood I believe that RPG's seriously helped me develop in many ways:

* Social interaction (much better for this imho than watching TV or playing computer games, sorry to admit it but true ;) ).
* Maths (the amount of math used in these games is huge BUT because its not 'work' kids do it and enjoy it)
* History (gave me an immense amount of interest in history, myths and such like)
* Reading (helped get me into reading fiction novels - via. Fighting Fantasy style books)
* Creativity (as with most role-players I spent hours designing adventures, worlds and indeed whole gameplay systems ... in fact one of them (designed as a role playing style way of playing Subbuteo ended up being the basis for the original CM3 match engine :D).

You will always get obsessive people doing bad things with potentially good hobbies or opportunities, that is human nature and life imho - you only have to look at religion to see this is the case (eg. most religious people are 'good' for their communities and want to live productive lives and help people, but some are obsessive and give religions a bad name).

Just my tuppence worth on a pet subject,

Marc
Eilim
03-10-2005, 06:40 AM
quick threadjack...

To any roleplaying fans who like their games somewhat on the quirky side (not running around yelling "Lightning bolt" quirky, mind you.), check out Its a Dog life RPG (http://www.geocities.com/dogs_life2003/) . Just picked up the second edition for 6 bucks at RPGnow and have to say I can't wait to try it out in a gaming session.

/end threadjack
Bee
03-10-2005, 07:05 AM
What I find funny about this is the main reason I play D&D is for the tactical combat. With the latest ruleset, the combat is similar to playing a strategic war game. I guess the Israeli army wants grunts who do what they're told and not generals...
Dutch
03-10-2005, 08:48 PM
Well, a battlefield full of generals would definately suck. :)
Greyroofoo
03-10-2005, 09:17 PM
Too many chiefs and not enough indians
Flasch186
03-10-2005, 09:31 PM
LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT!

www.dungeonmajesty.com

be prepared because it IS exactly as awful as you think it could be!!
Vinatieri for Prez
03-15-2005, 12:52 AM
Yeah, but go there (http://www.dungeonmajesty.com/home.html) and check out pic 12:

You will be pleasantly surprised, trust me!
Sun Tzu
03-15-2005, 01:14 AM
I hear Robert E. Lee was into D&D big.
sachmo71
03-15-2005, 10:49 AM
Yeah, but go there (http://www.dungeonmajesty.com/home.html) and check out pic 12:

You will be pleasantly surprised, trust me!

About what? Is she in the Israeli army? If so, they have sucky uniforms.
Desnudo
03-15-2005, 02:33 PM
I hear Robert E. Lee was into D&D big.

I say suhs, have any of you all seen my wizud hat?
Desnudo
03-15-2005, 02:35 PM
About what? Is she in the Israeli army? If so, they have sucky uniforms.

I think he was talking about the fact that she only has one chin.
sterlingice
03-16-2005, 01:12 AM
I say suhs, have any of you all seen my wizud hat?
http://www.americanroyalarts.com/library/WB68.jpg

SI