Shooting at courthouse in Downtown Atlanta

[Ben E Lou]

One station is reporting that a judge has died from his wounds. This is all I can find online at this point. News still coming in. It apparently happened around 45 minutes ago.

Shooting reported at courthouse

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 03/11/05
A Fulton County deputy and one other person were shot Friday morning at the Fulton County Courthouse on Pryor Street in downtown Atlanta, police dispatchers said.

Dispatchers could not confirm television reports that the second victim was a Fulton County judge.

<!--endclickprintinclude--><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=175 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=170 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle width=170 bgColor=#cccccc><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10 width=168 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=148></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD width=5></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--startclickprintinclude-->
The conditions of those shot were not immediately known.

The suspect apparently carjacked at least one vehicle following the shooting, which occurred about 9 a.m.

Dispatchers said a lookout had been posted for a green Mazda Tribute or Ford Escape minivan.

A court administrator on the sixth floor of the courthouse said he heard shots shortly after 9 a.m., and the courthouse was put on lockdown afterwards.

[Ben E Lou]

Geez. They're now reporting that a judge has died of his gunshot wounds, and two deputies have been taken to the hospital.

[Ben E Lou]

Now reporting that the suspect was able to take the gun of a deputy, held the courtroom hostage, shot the judge in the courtroom, ran outside, was confronted by a deputy outside who he also shot, then fled the scene by a carjacking.

[Ksyrup]

Terrible. No doubt influenced by the Chicago incident.

[mhass]

They come in three's right? Skip a court date if you've got one.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Wow. Think this might end up on Law & Order?

[Ben E Lou]

Court reporter has died also. :(

[Ben E Lou]

It was Judge Roland Barnes who was killed. He presided over the trial of that hockey player in the death of his teammate.

[Ben E Lou]

According to a Sheriff's department representative being interviewed live, the suspect shot four people, the judge, two deputies and a court clerk.

[Ksyrup]

According to a Sheriff's department representative being interviewed live, the suspect shot four people, the judge, two deputies and a court clerk.
Any info about the suspect - was he on trial, a spectator, etc.?

[Ben E Lou]

Any info about the suspect - was he on trial, a spectator, etc.?He was being retried for "a particularly violent rape." Apparently there was a mistrial last week.

[KevinNU7]

Does Georgia have the death penalty?

[Ben E Lou]

Does Georgia have the death penalty?This IS Georgia, now isn't it?

They just reported that the suspect may have carjacked as many as four different cars to confuse people in his escape, including an AJC reporter who he pistol-whipped before taking his car.

[Ksyrup]

I hope this guy doesn't own Grand Theft Auto, or Jack Thompson is going to have a field day with this.

[Ben E Lou]

MSNBC Article has a little more info...


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=bottom align=right width="1%">http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050311/050311_judgekilled_7a.vmedium.jpg John Bazemore / AP
</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 15px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px" vAlign=bottom width=409>Judge reportedly killed
at Atlanta courthouse
Rape suspect takes gun from sheriff, wounds at least two others
Fulton County Superior Court Judge Roland Barnes, the justice reportedly shot dead Friday, is seen in a file photo from last month.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 10:19 a.m. ET March 11, 2005

ATLANTA - A judge was killed and at least two others wounded at the Fulton County Courthouse in downtown Atlanta on Friday, news reports said.

<TABLE style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=textSmallGrey vAlign=top align=middle>advertisement
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>NBC affiliate WXIA-TV reported that Superior Court Judge Roland Barnes was shot dead by a man who had been in court when he wrestled a gun from a sheriff, then began shooting.

At least one sheriff was wounded.

A third shooting reportedly was at a parking garage where the suspect stole a vehicle and then fled.

Witnesses said he later carjacked a second vehicle and police have been searching the area.

The shooting occurred shortly after 9 a.m. local time.

Police identified the suspect as a Brian Nichols, age 34, and a Fulton County resident.

Investigators tell NBC News that Nichols was in custody at the time of the shooting, facing rape charges.

This report will be updated as information becomes available.

© 2005 MSNBC Interactive

[KevinNU7]

This IS Georgia, now isn't it?
I'll assume that means yes, I am a typical New Englander and don't know to much about most Southern States.

Anyways, I hope he burns

[ISiddiqui]

I hope this guy doesn't own Grand Theft Auto, or Jack Thompson is going to have a field day with this.
It doesn't matter if he does or doesn't, all the reports of carjacking will make GTA come up for debate. Dumb people...

Well, I asked off for work today and its a good thing. The Federal Center is like a few blocks from the Federal Courthouse.

[Ben E Lou]

One deputy shot in head, another shot in chest. Another judge referred to "the deputy who is still alive" to a reporter. That doesn't sound good. :(

[KWhit]

I hate people sometimes.

[cartman]

MSNBC Article has a little more info...

Police identified the suspect as a Brian Nichols

Ummm... HeavyReign lives in Washington, right?

[dacman]

Ummm... HeavyReign lives in Washington, right?I KNEW that name sounded familiar!

[flere-imsaho]

Before the gun control nuts (yep, that's me) go nuts, from CNN:

A defendant stole a weapon from a deputy and shot and killed Fulton County Superior Court Judge Rowland W. Barnes at an Atlanta courthouse today, officials told CNN. TV reports said a court reporter and two deputies may also have been shot. Officials said police were seeking a suspect identified as Bryan Nichols in downtown Atlanta.

If this is confirmed, I'm just :rolleyes:

Also, if this is confirmed, there's no relation to the Chicago incident - it's just the opportunism of a psycho.

[Ben E Lou]

My goodness. They're now thinking that he's gotten into a *fifth* vehicle.

[HomerJSimpson]

It doesn't matter if he does or doesn't, all the reports of carjacking will make GTA come up for debate. Dumb people...

Well, I asked off for work today and its a good thing. The Federal Center is like a few blocks from the Federal Courthouse.


This guy sounds like he is in GTA. And it is working for him, too. They were reporting he is in a green 1999 Toyota Accord, but now they are saying he is in a green Izuzu Trooper.

[flere-imsaho]

Faith in Georgia Law Enforcement declining....

[Noop]

Crazy...

[Ksyrup]

Also, if this is confirmed, there's no relation to the Chicago incident - it's just the opportunism of a psycho.
I don't know. It's the idea of violence against a Judge and those associated with the judicial system

The guy in Chicago, at least from what I've read of portions of the suicide note he left, intended to kill the Judge. He broke in at 8 in the morning, when she was already gone, and the husband and mother found him the basement, so he killed both of them. Then he hung around until 1:15, when he decided that "killing wasn't so much fun" (or something along those lines), and he took off.

This is obviously a bit more brazen, but it's similar. Of course, this guy has the added element of attempting to flee a potential incarceration, but still, he can't really think he's going to get away. I bet this was about making a statement first, getting away second. Otherwise, there's no need to kill the Judge when you can escape. The Judge is in the least likely position to stop someone from exiting a courtroom.

[Ben E Lou]

This is obviously a bit more brazen, but it's similar. Of course, this guy has the added element of attempting to flee a potential incarceration, but still, he can't really think he's going to get away. I bet this was about making a statement first, getting away second. Otherwise, there's no need to kill the Judge when you can escape. The Judge is in the least likely position to stop someone from exiting a courtroom.That's an excellent point, one that I haven't thought about. The thing that stuns me is that this guy did this on the sixth floor of a courthouse at 9 in the morning and was able to get out of there. I've been on a jury in DeKalb County, so I can say first-hand how many armed law enforcement officers are in there at that time of day. It is *very* busy. I would imagine Fulton's is even busier than DeKalb's.

[flere-imsaho]

Ksyrup: Good points. I guess it just didn't seem as "premeditated" as the Chicago incident was.

[Ksyrup]

It definitely wasn't as premeditated - the guy in Chicago lost a civil suit and had been stewing about it for months (and the case in general for years), I think. This was definitely something that couldn't have occurred without the opportunity, but I'm betting he noticed a pattern in the manner in which law enforcement acted in the courtroom and figured he might be able to do something. Maybe he figured he wouldn't even get out of the courtroom alive, but wanted to take the Judge down with him. I bet he was as surprised as anyone to be out on the street, which is probably why he's panicking and stealing every other car on the road. He probably figured he'd either be stopped or dead by now.

[Ben E Lou]

AP is now reporting that one sheriff's deputy is dead.

[Huckleberry]

Renee Rockwell, a defense attorney, said she was on her way to the courtroom immediately following the shooting, when a deputy grabbed her and pulled her into an elevator. "While we were in the elevator, one of the female deputies started crying and said, 'The defendant took the deputy's gun and held the courtroom hostage and shot the judge.'
Somebody explain to me why this does not say that multiple deputies were hiding in an elevator while the man escaped.

[Ksyrup]

CNN has an article (dated, beccause it still discusses the possible white supremacist ties to the Chicago case) on Judge killings. Perhaps I've been living on the moon for the past 20 years, but I had absolutely no idea about this:

1979

U.S. District Judge John Wood was slain by a sniper outside his home in San Antonio. The killer was hired because defendants in a Colombian drug-smuggling case before the judge believed he would impose a maximum sentence on them. Charles Harrelson, the father of actor Woody Harrelson, was convicted and sentenced to two life terms in the first assassination of a federal judge in the 20th century.

[Ben E Lou]

Somebody explain to me why this does not say that multiple deputies were hiding in an elevator while the man escaped.Well, from that account, it is unclear whether or not those particular deputies were armed, how "immediately" after the shooting this took place, and whether or not they were going *down* the elevator to search on the street.

[Ben E Lou]

Suspect vehicle may have been found abandoned at an apartment complex.

[bbor]

Horrible.....and senseless.

[VPI97]

I just found out that I knew this guy.

He worked downstairs as a UNIX admin and I had also talked to him a few times outside of the office at a party.

[KWhit]

They have now locked down all the schools in the area, so this guy can't get in one and take hostages.

[Huckleberry]

Well, from that account, it is unclear whether or not those particular deputies were armed, how "immediately" after the shooting this took place, and whether or not they were going *down* the elevator to search on the street.
Armed or not I will grant you.

But if they were going down the elevator to attempt to apprehend the suspect, why exactly would they be pulling a citizen into the elevator?

The unarmed explanation is the only valid one I can see as of now.

[Ksyrup]

I thought his dad was in jail on drug charges...I had no idea he murdered a judge.

This whole situation is terrible. Hopefully they catch the bastard and fry his ass...
Apparently he "ordered" the hit, I don't think he actually committed the crime.

[KWhit]

They are reporting on TV that they think they may have the suspect surrounded in a location and are about to move in.

They are being very vague in the report so as not to tip him off, but evidently, the police believe they know where he is.

[JeeberD]

CNN has an article (dated, beccause it still discusses the possible white supremacist ties to the Chicago case) on Judge killings. Perhaps I've been living on the moon for the past 20 years, but I had absolutely no idea about this:

1979

U.S. District Judge John Wood was slain by a sniper outside his home in San Antonio. The killer was hired because defendants in a Colombian drug-smuggling case before the judge believed he would impose a maximum sentence on them. Charles Harrelson, the father of actor Woody Harrelson, was convicted and sentenced to two life terms in the first assassination of a federal judge in the 20th century.


I thought his dad was in jail on drug charges...I had no idea he murdered a judge.

This whole situation is terrible. Hopefully they catch the bastard and fry his ass...

[cartman]

Apparently he "ordered" the hit, I don't think he actually committed the crime.

Other way around. Judge Wood was known as someone who had no mercy in sentencing convicted drug offenders. There was a big time drug dealer, who after he found out his case was going to be tried by Judge Wood, put out a contract on the judge. Woody's dad evidently took the contract and carried out the hit.

Here's a story on the case: http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/new_site/biography.php?id=925

[Ben E Lou]

I just found out that I knew this guy.

He worked downstairs as a UNIX admin and I had also talked to him a few times outside of the office at a party.He apparently lives in the area near your office, too.

[VPI97]

He apparently lives in the area near your office, too.
He lives in an apt. complex off Roswell Rd & 285...you can see it from the interstate. We initially met him because he lives next to one of my wife's very good friends. We were at one of their parties when I met him...we started talking about IT stuff and found that I work just one floor up from him. Seemed like a nice guy at the time.

[Pyser]

I thought his dad was in jail on drug charges...I had no idea he murdered a judge.

This whole situation is terrible. Hopefully they catch the bastard and fry his ass...

makes the his doing 'natural born killers' pretty surreal, doesnt it? especially since there was a deleted scene where he murdered people while on trial, in the courthouse.

and no offense meant at all to atlanta people, but it sure seems like you guys have been posting a lot of terrible news recently.

[JeeberD]

Deputy who had her gun taken from her was shot through the mouth, but she just got out of surgery and is alive...

[Ben E Lou]

AJC reporter tells story of carjacking
Staff writer Don O'Briant, who was carjacked Friday morning, told this story while he was in the emergency room at Atlanta Medical Center getting stiches above his left eye, about 90 minutes after the carjacking happened.



<!--endclickprintinclude--><table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="175"><tbody><tr><td>http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/02/49/36/image_1436492.jpg (http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/02/49/36/image_1436492.jpg)
(ENLARGE) (http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/02/49/36/image_1436492.jpg)
</td></tr><tr><td class="caption">Don O'Briant
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td><td width="5">http://www.ajc.com/shared-local/images/1pix_trans.gif</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table><!--startclickprintinclude--> I had just parked my car in the parking lot behind the Chinese restarurant at the corner of Spring Street and Marietta Street and was going to work, a little after 9 a.m.

This person pulled in beside me, and I noticed that he had pulled into a handicapped spot. He was a young, athletic looking black man, and he didn't have a shirt on, but I figured he was probably in town for the basketball tournament.

First he asked how to get to Lenox Square.

Then he pulled a gun and said "Give me your keys or I'll kill you!"

I gave him the keys, and then he said "Get in the trunk."

I said no. I thought maybe I was going to be killed, but I wasn't going to get in the trunk.

I turned to run, and that's when he hit me in the head with his gun. I fell down, and I got up and ran into a garbage bin. I got up again and ran.

I scrambled into the street, waiting for the shots to come, but they didn't come.

He must have been out of bullets, because he didn't shoot me.

I couldn't see, because blood was coming out all over my eye. I went to the Chinese restaurant and banged on the door, but there was no one there, so I started out into Marietta Street, and that's when I ran into co-worker Drew Jubera.

[VPI97]

I couldn't see, because blood was coming out all over my eye. I went to the Chinese restaurant and banged on the door, but there was no one there, so I started out into Marietta Street, and that's when I ran into co-worker Drew Jubera. Jeez, I feel I know this story backwards and forwards...I used to eat lunch at that Chinese place on Marietta and Spring about twice a week when I worked for the railroad.

[KevinNU7]

"Get in the trunk"

Holy shit! That is scare!

[KevinNU7]

"Get in the trunk"

Holy shit! That is scary!

[oliegirl]

They currently have 36 schools in "lockdown", 4 within the city limits, all others in the metro area(s) where the suspect has been spotted or has hijacked cars...they are encouraging parents to NOT go check their children out of school because of the obvious traffic problems it could cause...but if my kid was in one of those schools - nothing could keep me from going and getting him.

[flere-imsaho]

When I first read this, I thought to myself "Who is this guy trying to kid? How far does he think he's going to get?"

[oliegirl]

Any info about the suspect - was he on trial, a spectator, etc.?

According to the radio (750 am), this Judge was in the old courthouse, they do not have holding cells adjacent to the courtrooms like the new courthouse does. As a result, the suspect was being held in a jury room off the courtroom...this is where he gained control of the Deputy's gun, shot her, then went into the courtroom and shot the Judge.

Something tells me they will either renovate the old courthouse to include holding cells, or move all criminal cases into the new courthouse to prevent anything like this happening in the future.

Very sad story.

[Franklinnoble]

Call me a chauvinist pig, but there's no way a FEMALE officer should have been guarding a male prisoner. Especially one on trial for RAPE.

Fucking stupid.

[oliegirl]

Call me a chauvinist pig, but there's no way a FEMALE officer should have been guarding a male prisoner. Especially one on trial for RAPE.

Fucking stupid.


You are a chauvinist pig.

[CraigSca]

I don't know anything about the deputy, but I would hope there is a certain level of physical fitness one must possess in order to have a job like this. I would also hope they wouldn't "dumb down" this level in order to include all sexes - sometimes people just aren't qualified to hold certain dangerous jobs - that's just the way it is.

[Solecismic]

Chalk this one up to political correctness run amock.

Nichols was in street clothes and unshackled. Just because that might prejudice a jury. Why can't the judge just say at the beginning of the trial that he's shackled because of the severity of the accusation?

I'm all for guaranteeing a fair trial. But today, it seems that to be considered "fair", it must be mistake-free and prejudiced in favor of the defendant.

I don't know about not having a woman guarding a dangerous male criminal. I wouldn't go that far. But if it turns out she's inexperienced and was the only one in the room with a gun, I'd say the courts were guilty of believing their own politically correct definitions. A man accused of what Brian Nichols was accused of must be considered dangerous.

(just to make it clear, I'm not referring to race in any way - political correctness in this case means assuming all criminals or all criminal defendants are just like the rest of us without any history of violence - even if that's just an accusation).

[albionmoonlight]

Nichols was in street clothes and unshackled. Just because that might prejudice a jury.
I'm probably as defendant-friendly a non-criminal as there is on this board, but even I am shocked by this if it is true.

If a guy is dangerous enough that you need an armed deputy to guard him, then he is dangerous enough to handcuff. I agree that a curative instruction to the jury ("Everyone accused of a violent crime is required to be handcuffed; do not read anything into the appearance of this defendant.") would have been enough.

[CamEdwards]

got a link for that information, Jim? I agree, that's just PC stupidity if it's true.

[Ksyrup]

It's in the MSNBC article, which also contains this:


James Bailey, a juror at Nichols’ trial, said the jury was not in the courtroom at the time of the shooting.


Now, even if you give them the benefit of the doubt regarding the prejudicial effect of the defendant being in handcuffs, if the jury wasn't in the courtroom as he was being escorted, why was he not in handcuffs? I have to believe he'd have a much more difficult time pulling something like this at the defendant's table, even if unshackled at that point, then being unshackled while being escorted into the courtroom. If the jury ain't in the room, there's no prejudice!!!

[CamEdwards]

ummmm... I'd rather not :) but thank you!

[Huckleberry]

Cam -

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/4275867/detail.html

Eric Friedly, a spokesman for the Fulton district attorney's office, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that the Nichols had been released on bond and was going to be cross-examined in court. Friedly told the newspaper that the judge was wrapping up a civil proceeding before his second criminal trial resumed. Nichols was not cuffed, which Friedly said is not unusual.


"Even if the defendant is in jail at the time of the trial, he's allowed to wear street clothes in order to not prejudice the jury," Friedly told the newspaper.


Nichols was accused of going to his ex-girlfriend's apartment in North Fulton and holding her hostage for hours during which he repeatedly sexually assaulted her.
Be sure to credit "Huck the Magnificent" if you use it on the air. ;)

[CraigSca]

How is this labeled as political correctness? This is just stupidity.

God forbid you handcuff a guy up for kidnapping and rape.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I have always thought that a defendant should be required to wear the clothing they were wearing when arrested. I love how they try to make thugs look like choir boys during trial.

As for this guy... any chance he was innocent of the rape? Just kidding. How stupid do you have to be... Post bond and you're free to go. No thank you, I'll just kill a few people and then leave. Maybe when they catch him they'll allow him free unshackled roam of the courthouse during his trial. I'd love to hear the defense's "not guilty" arguement...

[Thomkal]

Man, not a good time for me to be reporting for jury duty for the first time ever at the end of the month. What a horrible experience this must have been for anyone in the courthouse.

[Ksyrup]

I have always thought that a defendant should be required to wear the clothing they were wearing when arrested. I love how they try to make thugs look like choir boys during trial.

As for this guy... any chance he was innocent of the rape? Just kidding. How stupid do you have to be... Post bond and you're free to go. No thank you, I'll just kill a few people and then leave. Maybe when they catch him they'll allow him free unshackled roam of the courthouse during his trial. I'd love to hear the defense's "not guilty" arguement...
This was the actual trial, not first appearance or something like that. And this was the second trial actually, the first one ended in a mistrial (anyone have the details on that?). So he was sitting in jail the whole time. He was either denied bail or couldn't make it.

[Franklinnoble]

You are a chauvinist pig.

Just callin' it like I see it. Men are, by nature, stronger than women. Especially a man who has already demonstrated a likelihood that he was able to forcibly rape a woman. To leave such a person alone in a room, unrestrained, with only a female officer guarding him, is the height of irresponsible stupidity.

[bbor]

Update?

They catch him?

[Ksyrup]

Although I don't do criminal law AT ALL, I wanted to address the idea expressed above that unshackling a defendant for trial is either a result of political correctness or just plain stupid. Where required, it may be prudent and/or necessary. But this is hardly a new thing, and the law is pretty well-settled on the general issue (this is taken from a Washington Supreme Court opinion I found on the issue):

A criminal defendant has the constitutional right to appear at trial free
from shackles or other physical restraints, except in extraordinary
circumstances. Illinois v. Allen, 397 U.S. 337, 344, 90 S. Ct. 1057, 25 L.
Ed. 2d 353 (1970); Rhoden v. Rowland, 172 F.3d 633, 636 (9th Cir. 1999);
Finch, 137 Wn.2d at 842. This right is an essential component of a fair
and impartial criminal trial, guaranteed by the sixth and fourteenth
amendments to the United States Constitution and article I, section 3, and
article I, section 22 of the Washington State Constitution. Finch, 137
Wn.2d at 843. The Supreme Court has clearly stated "one accused of a crime
is entitled to have his guilt or innocence determined solely on the basis
of the evidence introduced at trial, and not on grounds of official
suspicion, indictment, continued custody, or other circumstances not
adduced as proof at trial." Taylor v. Kentucky, 436 U.S. 478, 485, 98 S.
Ct. 1930, 56 L. Ed. 2d 468 (1978).

Requiring a defendant to appear at trial in physical restraints poses a
substantial risk of destroying the defendant's presumption of innocence,
"`a basic component of a fair trial under our system of criminal justice.'"
Finch, 137 Wn.2d at 844 (quoting Estelle v. Williams, 425 U.S. 501, 503, 96
S. Ct. 1691, 48 L. Ed. 2d 126 (1976)). Shackles unmistakably indicate the
court believes there is a "need to separate a defendant from the community
at large, creating an inherent danger that the jury may form the impression
that the defendant is dangerous or untrustworthy." Rhoden, 172 F.3d at 636
(citing Holbrook v. Flynn, 475 U.S. 560, 568-69, 106 S. Ct. 1340, 89 L. Ed.
2d 525 (1986)).


While the specific application of these general tenets likely differs from state-to-state and circuity-to-circuit, and there are exceptions to every rule, the basic issue is one of ensuring our Constitutional right to a fair trial. Perhaps the method by which this was achieved in Atlanta was faulty, but this isn't the result of "PC gone amok" or sheer stupidity. These issues were decided at the US Supreme Court level, decades ago.

[Ksyrup]

A little more on the shackling issue:


In Allen v. Illinois, 397 U.S. 337, 344 (1970), the Court recognized two additional "inherent disadvantages" to shackling a defendant at trial: physical restraints may not only cause jury prejudice and impair the presumption of innocence, they may also detract from the dignity and decorum of the proceeding and impede the defendant's ability to communicate with his counsel. Id. "The lower courts have observed two further weaknesses in imposing physical restraints: they may confuse and embarrass the defendant, thereby impairing his mental faculties; and they may cause him pain." Spain v. Rushen, 883 F.2d 712, 720-21 (9th Cir. 1989) (citing cases from other circuits), cert. denied, 495 U.S. 948 (1990).

With the exception of the presumption of innocence, these "inherent limitations" of shackling continue into the penalty stage of a trial. Because "there seems to be no reason to restrict the[se] principles to the guilt-innocence stage of trial," we conclude the constitutional rules regarding shackling at trial apply equally in the sentencing context. Elledge v. Dugger, 823 F.2d at 1451.

.....


The right to appear before a jury free of shackles, however, is not absolute. Wilson v. McCarthy, 770 F.2d 1482, 1484-85 (9th Cir. 1985). Shackling is inherently prejudicial, but it is not per se unconstitutional. See Spain v. Rushen, 883 F.2d at 716. Under certain circumstances, "shackling . . . may be appropriate because of the public's competing interest in courtroom security and the just administration of law." Id. at 722 (citing Allen v. Illinois, 397 U.S. at 344). Because of the potential for prejudice, however, due process requires that shackles be used only as a "last resort." Illinois v. Allen, 397 U.S. at 344.

It is a denial of due process if a trial court orders a defendant shackled without first engaging in a two-step process. Castillo v. Stainer, 983 F.2d 145, 147-48 (9th Cir. 1992), as amended by, 997 F.2d 669 (9th Cir. 1993). "First, the court must be persuaded by compelling circumstances 'that some measure [is] needed to maintain security of the courtroom.' " Jones v. Meyer, 899 F.2d 883, 885 (9th Cir.) (quoting Spain v. Rushen, 883 F.2d at 720), cert. denied, 498 U.S. 832 (1990). "Second, the court must 'pursue less restrictive alternatives before imposing physical restraints.' " Id. (quoting Spain, 883 F.2d at 721). See also United States v. Baker, 10 F.3d 1374, 1401 (9th Cir. 1993).

[JeeberD]

Nope, still on the run. If you have CNN up there tune in. Nothin but this story all day long...

[Ben E Lou]

He's still on the run. At one point, it looked like they had him cornered (in the general area of the offices of VPI97, Buzzee, and SWMBO), but it appears that he wasn't in that area after all.

[albionmoonlight]

A little more on the shackling issue:


In Allen v. Illinois, 397 U.S. 337, 344 (1970), the Court recognized two additional "inherent disadvantages" to shackling a defendant at trial: physical restraints may not only cause jury prejudice and impair the presumption of innocence, they may also detract from the dignity and decorum of the proceeding and impede the defendant's ability to communicate with his counsel. Id. "The lower courts have observed two further weaknesses in imposing physical restraints: they may confuse and embarrass the defendant, thereby impairing his mental faculties; and they may cause him pain." Spain v. Rushen, 883 F.2d 712, 720-21 (9th Cir. 1989) (citing cases from other circuits), cert. denied, 495 U.S. 948 (1990).

With the exception of the presumption of innocence, these "inherent limitations" of shackling continue into the penalty stage of a trial. Because "there seems to be no reason to restrict the[se] principles to the guilt-innocence stage of trial," we conclude the constitutional rules regarding shackling at trial apply equally in the sentencing context. Elledge v. Dugger, 823 F.2d at 1451.

.....


The right to appear before a jury free of shackles, however, is not absolute. Wilson v. McCarthy, 770 F.2d 1482, 1484-85 (9th Cir. 1985). Shackling is inherently prejudicial, but it is not per se unconstitutional. See Spain v. Rushen, 883 F.2d at 716. Under certain circumstances, "shackling . . . may be appropriate because of the public's competing interest in courtroom security and the just administration of law." Id. at 722 (citing Allen v. Illinois, 397 U.S. at 344). Because of the potential for prejudice, however, due process requires that shackles be used only as a "last resort." Illinois v. Allen, 397 U.S. at 344.

It is a denial of due process if a trial court orders a defendant shackled without first engaging in a two-step process. Castillo v. Stainer, 983 F.2d 145, 147-48 (9th Cir. 1992), as amended by, 997 F.2d 669 (9th Cir. 1993). "First, the court must be persuaded by compelling circumstances 'that some measure [is] needed to maintain security of the courtroom.' " Jones v. Meyer, 899 F.2d 883, 885 (9th Cir.) (quoting Spain v. Rushen, 883 F.2d at 720), cert. denied, 498 U.S. 832 (1990). "Second, the court must 'pursue less restrictive alternatives before imposing physical restraints.' " Id. (quoting Spain, 883 F.2d at 721). See also United States v. Baker, 10 F.3d 1374, 1401 (9th Cir. 1993).
KSyrup--

Much thanks for the links. I had no idea the law was this developed in this area.

[digamma]

got a link for that information, Jim? I agree, that's just PC stupidity if it's true.
The article by Huckleberry touches on the issue, but it has actually been decided by the Supreme Court, and I don't think the case is all that recent--so I don't think it is a case of PC'ism run amok.

Nevermind, I see Ksyrup has beaten me to the punch.

[Ksyrup]

KSyrup--

Much thanks for the links. I had no idea the law was this developed in this area.
No problem. I may be stupid about a lot of things, but when it comes to the law, I know...google. :D

[rkmsuf]

I know...google. :D

And shackling!

[Ksyrup]

And shackling!
Both are equally handy.

[rkmsuf]

Both are equally handy.

Throw in sheep and you've got something special there.

[Solecismic]

I should amend that, then.

They were lulled into a fatal slumber by the Supreme Court's politically correct definitions.

[Ben E Lou]

A law enforcement official (wasn't really paying attention to radio in background when this interview started) is being interviewed on the radio. He was just asked if anyone else was guarding the suspect. He said he didn't know, that the female deputy was still sedated and they haven't interviewed her yet. Then he was asked if any other deputies had come forward to say they were in the holding room. He said something to the effect of: "To my knowledge, no other deputies have indicated that they were in the room."'


EDIT: It is a news conference with the Deputy Chief Of Police for the City of Atlanta.

[Ben E Lou]

The APD Deputy Chief just said that the female deputy was not shot, but was injured in the scuffle with the suspect. I'd say the fact that she's in critical condition from the scuffle is a pretty likely indicator that she was in the room alone with him.

[Ben E Lou]

It was just called by police "an around-the-clock, nation-wide search" for Nichols.

Nation-wide??? We need to get Tommy Lee Jones on the case to tell us how long our fugitive has been on the run...

[Ben E Lou]

Ok. This can NOT be true. PLEASE tell me this isn't true.


Reporters are saying that this guy tried to smuggle a shank into the courtroom just two days ago.

[vtbub]

Ok. This can NOT be true. PLEASE tell me this isn't true.


Reporters are saying that this guy tried to smuggle a shank into the courtroom just two days ago.


Fox is reporting this now, and I heard this earlier.

[HomerJSimpson]

Ok. This can NOT be true. PLEASE tell me this isn't true.


Reporters are saying that this guy tried to smuggle a shank into the courtroom just two days ago.


It is quite possible they are confusing two different defendants. I have heard others close to the case say they had no indication the guy was a threat.

[VPI97]

How the fuck are you going to smuggle a freaking SHARK into a freaking courtroom??? large rectum

[Subby]

How the fuck are you going to smuggle a freaking SHARK into a freaking courtroom???

[cuervo72]

It was just a dolphin.

(shank? don't completely follow here...I hear 'shank' and I think of a cut of pork or something.)

[moriarty]

(shank? don't completely follow here...I hear 'shank' and I think of a cut of pork or something.)

Maybe like a shiv .. isnt' that what they use in all those prison shows?

[Ben E Lou]

It was just a dolphin.

(shank? don't completely follow here...I hear 'shank' and I think of a cut of pork or something.)shank
(n) A custom made knife as used in prisons, made from whatever materials are available.

[cuervo72]

Got it...need to bone up on my prison terminology.

[cuervo72]

Dola - I did look it up, but didn't find that definition.

http://www.answers.com/shank&r=67

[Ben E Lou]

Got it...need to bone up on my prison terminology.They're referring to it that way on the news here, actually. Of course, they use the term "crackhead," in this town, too. :p

[bbor]

It pains me to say this......but if they havent caught him by now....and he was right in their kitchen...........

[Ben E Lou]

It pains me to say this......but if they havent caught him by now....and he was right in their kitchen...........Well, he can't run forever, given the amount of notoriety this case has gotten. However, he's now been on the run for 7+ hours...

[cuervo72]

They're referring to it that way on the news here, actually. Of course, they use the term "crackhead," in this town, too. :p

Damn, I need to revisit my drug lingo as well.

[moriarty]

It pains me to say this......but if they havent caught him by now....and he was right in their kitchen...........

Well if he was in my kitchen I'd beat him senseless with a lamb shank.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I hate to see anything like this happen, but wouldn't this have been a much better story if it had been Michael Jackson?

[Ben E Lou]

Police officers have surrounded an apartment in NW Atlanta, according to WSB-Radio.

[KevinNU7]

Police officers have surrounded an apartment in NW Atlanta, according to WSB-Radio.
Anyone else think this guy will be shot dead by a SWAT team?

[KWhit]

I hate to see anything like this happen, but wouldn't this have been a much better story if it had been Michael Jackson?
With the amount of airplay he got for wearing his pajamas yesterday, I imagine that if he did something like that, all the major media outlets would explode.

[JeeberD]

DA just confirmed that a shank was found on him the other day...

[VPI97]

Police officers have surrounded an apartment in NW Atlanta, according to WSB-Radio. Are they giving any specifics as to where?

[Franklinnoble]

DA just confirmed that a shank was found on him the other day...

Alleged rapist... already tried to take a weapon to court... left alone in a room, unrestrained, with one female cop.

Seriously... criminal charges need to be brought against whoever's in charge around there. People are dead because somebody was really, really, fucking stupid.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Anyone else think this guy will be shot dead by a SWAT team?

The history on this guy probably indicates that they will put him in the back seat of a running police vehicle with no cage and leave him unattended...

[Ksyrup]

Anyone else think this guy will be shot dead by a SWAT team?
Anyone think this guy WON'T be shot dead, either by himself or the police?

[Ksyrup]

The history on this guy probably indicates that they will put him in the back seat of a running police vehicle with no cage and leave him unattended...
I think Reno 911 needs to be relocated.

[judicial clerk]

A couple of random thoughts:

-I worked in Multnomah County (Portland, OR) courthouse for two years as a clerk for a judge. Most cases we, and every other judge, handled were criminal cases;

-Like the courthouse in Georgia, my courthouse was antiquated with holding cells on the top floor but nothing similarly secure anywhere else in the courthouse. Sheriffs deputies also served the roll of guard/bailiff in the courtrooms, all the deputies were armed;

-in the old courthouse I worked in, there were three seperate stairwells and four elevators, it is not impossible for a defendant two make the street if they get out in the first two minutes of the attemtpted escape;

-many of the deputies I worked with were women. They all seemed very capable and professional. That said, a guy like this would never be guarded by just one deputy, man or woman, and the only time he would be out of his shackles (wrists and ankles) is right before the jury was brought in. Only a couple of times did i ever see an unshackled defendant even try to stand up, and when they did, the deputies were all over them. Most deputies I saw at one sentencing was once we were sentencing a guy for a rape who was also a convicted murder and he had fucked up a couple of other inmates at the jail (although he was always polite and calm in the courtroom) they brought six deputies with him ( four right behind him and one standing outside each door into the courtroom);

-I did have a couple of times when defendants who were not in custody try to run after the guilty verdict was announced. Once, the judge yelled at her and she stopped and came back, once a guy ran into a DA right in the courtroom doorway and then the deputies took him into custody. Other defendants had made it out of the courthouse that I know of, so many people milling around and it takes at least thirty seconds for the deputies (except those in the room) to know the description of the defendant;

-in my courthouse, both the judge and the clerk had a silent alarm button. I pushed it just once (for the guy who ran into the DA in the doorway) and it took about three minutes for the deputies to get there, I also worked with one judge (who was retired and just filling in for a few days). He had a pistol under his robes;

-Ksyrup's quotes comport with my exact understanding of the law. Jury can't see the defendant in their handcuffs or in their prison gear. Defendants a couple of times moved for a mistrial b/c the jury saw them shackled up. Motion was always denied that I saw. The only guys who didn't have their shackles taken off were times where the person caused a previous disturbance in the courthouse or maybe in the jail. Also, the judge usually would actually issue an order autheorizing the defendant to stay in shackles;

-all that said, after you do a criminal case with an in-custody defendant for the 1000th time and everything is going smoothly just like all the times before, it is only human nature to become complacent. Unfortunatly, it looks like like complacency in this case has led to tragic results.

[Ben E Lou]

Are they giving any specifics as to where?Nothing further said about it. Now Captain Herb just said around 20 trooper cars and two helicopters appear to be closing in on a location in Avondale Estates. :confused:

Sounds like they're chasing every shadow they see at this point.

[Joe]

-in my courthouse, both the judge and the clerk had a silent alarm button. I pushed it just once (for the guy who ran into the DA in the doorway) and it took about three minutes for the deputies to get there, I also worked with one judge (who was retired and just filling in for a few days). He had a pistol under his robes


Is it common for judges to pack heat?

[Ksyrup]

Is it common for judges to pack heat?
Penis pumps, yes; heat, no. Unless they get sore from the penis pump.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Captain Herb???

"Wow... Like... There's some cops man... and they're like, doing something man... For WBS Radio... Oh yeah... For WSB Radio, I'm Captain Herb... High in the sky..."

Sorry. Just tryin' to lighten the mood. This story is a bit heavy.

[Ksyrup]

Captain Herb???

"Wow... Like... There's some cops man... and they're like, doing something man... For WBS Radio... Oh yeah... For WSB Radio, I'm Captain Herb... High in the sky..."

Sorry. Just tryin' to lighten the mood. This story is a bit heavy.
Don't forget about Lieutenant Towlie.

[Joe]

Police officers have surrounded an apartment in NW Atlanta, according to WSB-Radio.


wow why would the guy still be in atlanta.

[Ksyrup]

From CNN:


Nichols -- who was in custody but was allowed to change from jail scrubs into street clothes, a normal occurrence when defendants face jurors -- apparently struggled with the deputy for the gun and overpowered her, police said.

Sources told CNN the initial overpowering occurred in an elevator.

[JonInMiddleGA]

wow why would the guy still be in atlanta.

Well, for starters, he doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. I mean, we're talking about a guy who took sandwiches with him to rape his ex-gf.

[Ben E Lou]

Sources told CNN the initial overpowering occurred in an elevator.This is just looking worse and worse for law enforcement every second...

[judicial clerk]

Is it common for judges to pack heat?

It is extremely uncommon. as far as I know, this is the only judge I worked with who did. This Judge was a real character.

DA just confirmed that a shank was found on him the other day...

This is quite suprising. This is the type of fact that would allow a judge to keep a guy shackled in front of the jury.

I don't think this guy will do himself, his self preservation instinct seems too high, but he may not survive his arrest.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

From CNN:


Nichols -- who was in custody but was allowed to change from jail scrubs into street clothes, a normal occurrence when defendants face jurors -- apparently struggled with the deputy for the gun and overpowered her, police said.

Sources told CNN the initial overpowering occurred in an elevator.
Here's my question - why was a female assigned to this guy? He appears to be fairly good size, from what I can see on tv. Was this woman larger than Nichols?

[Ben E Lou]

Here's my question - why was a female assigned to this guy? He appears to be fairly good size, from what I can see on tv. Was this woman larger than Nichols? You chauvanist pig. (http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showpost.php?p=730088&postcount=55)

[Franklinnoble]

Here's my question - why was a female assigned to this guy? He appears to be fairly good size, from what I can see on tv. Was this woman larger than Nichols?

Thank you.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

You chauvanist pig. (http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/showpost.php?p=730088&postcount=55)
D'oh. Didn't see that. Sorry.

Though I'm not really concerned that this was a rape trial - she's a cop, if she can't handle uncomfortable trials then she shouldn't be one. I'm more concerned about the physiology here. There's a reason why bouncers at clubs are huge men, and not short little women like me (though I am pretty buff, don't make me flex and show off my muscles). Was that same logic applied in this situation? I'm not so sure. If it wasn't, why not?

[judicial clerk]

Though I'm not really concerned that this was a rape trial - she's a cop, if she can't handle uncomfortable trials then she shouldn't be one. I'm more concerned about the physiology here. There's a reason why bouncers at clubs are huge men, and not short little women like me (though I am pretty buff, don't make me flex and show off my muscles). Was that same logic applied in this situation? I'm not so sure. If it wasn't, why not?


I think that the gun, mace, and maybe tazer she was carrying was supposed to compensate for her lack of size. No deputy (man or woman) should be left alone with the guy, however and he shouldn't be riding around in elevators un-schackled.

[judicial clerk]

I'm a member of the MCPAD and I don't like the tone of your post, bigot.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

D'oh. Didn't see that. Sorry.

Though I'm not really concerned that this was a rape trial - she's a cop, if she can't handle uncomfortable trials then she shouldn't be one. I'm more concerned about the physiology here. There's a reason why bouncers at clubs are huge men, and not short little women like me (though I am pretty buff, don't make me flex and show off my muscles). Was that same logic applied in this situation? I'm not so sure. If it wasn't, why not?

Come on, be P.C . Anyone out there can do any job out there, and physical limitations should not be taken into account. Would these people still be alive if he was being guarded by a man who was 6-8 and 345 lbs? That's not the issue here. The issue is that you can't discriminate against anyone, ever. We honestly can't say that a mentally challenged paraplegic albino dwarf-cop would have been any less effectictive in this situation.

[VPI97]

Well, for starters, he doesn't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. I mean, we're talking about a guy who took sandwiches with him to rape his ex-gf.FWIW, he was a very intelligent guy.

wow why would the guy still be in atlanta.If you're trying to get away from Atlanta, your best bet would be to wait until nightfall. Until then, you'd have to deal with traffic and at the same time, have your description and your car's description all over the radio & interstate signs.

[digamma]

Reminds me of the day trader 7 or 8 years ago who shot up his broker's office in Buckhead, led cops on a chase all over the city before killing himself at a gas station.

[oliegirl]

Just callin' it like I see it. Men are, by nature, stronger than women. Especially a man who has already demonstrated a likelihood that he was able to forcibly rape a woman. To leave such a person alone in a room, unrestrained, with only a female officer guarding him, is the height of irresponsible stupidity.

In this case, you are right - he should have been being guarded by a man...someone who might be able to intimidate him. This guy is clearly someone who has no respect for authority or human life, for that matter.

However, to make the statement that women should never guard men is chauvanistic in nature.

[CraigSca]

We honestly can't say that a mentally challenged paraplegic albino dwarf-cop would have been any less effectictive in this situation.
Expect a lawsuit from the International Brotherhood of Mentally-Challenged Paraplegic Albino Dwarf-Cops any day now.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I think that the gun, mace, and maybe tazer she was carrying was supposed to compensate for her lack of size.
Well they don't compensate very well if she's not strong enough to keep them away from those in her custody, now do they? I thought one of the things taught in the police academy is how to subdue a suspect without the weapons. Is that not the case anymore? If so, why didn't this female officer succeed in subduing Nichols?

Come on, be P.C . Anyone out there can do any job out there, and physical limitations should not be taken into account. Would these people still be alive if he was being guarded by a man who was 6-8 and 345 lbs? That's not the issue here. The issue is that you can't discriminate against anyone, ever. We honestly can't say that a mentally challenged paraplegic albino dwarf-cop would have been any less effectictive in this situation.
I know you're being sarcastic here, but sadly sometimes I think that's what this world is coming to.

I'm not so bold as to say that had a man been guarding this guy that no one would have died today. I just don't know that. I just have questions. Would Nichols thought twice if a 6'4" man weighing 220lbs was guarding him? Would a larger man been able to subdue him?

[SackAttack]

In this case, you are right - he should have been being guarded by a man...someone who might be able to intimidate him. This guy is clearly someone who has no respect for authority or human life, for that matter.

However, to make the statement that women should never guard men is chauvanistic in nature.

So what you're saying is that a woman should guard a man if he's not dangerous, but shouldn't guard him if he is?

How, for that matter, are you going to determine what constitutes a "dangerous" male suspect? The crime of which the man is being accused?

I don't see how chauvinism enters the picture at all given the argument you appear to be advancing.

[oliegirl]

So what you're saying is that a woman should guard a man if he's not dangerous, but shouldn't guard him if he is?

How, for that matter, are you going to determine what constitutes a "dangerous" male suspect? The crime of which the man is being accused?

I don't see how chauvinism enters the picture at all given the argument you appear to be advancing.

I think given the violent nature of his crime which was directed toward a woman, rape, they should have thought twice about placing a female officer alone with this guy, after he had already tried to smuggle homemade weapons into the courthouse. I think having a woman guard was in a way just taunting him. That is not to say that he wouldn't have done this if he was being guarded by a 7 foot tall muscular guy either, just an observation.

[SackAttack]

And you won't find any argument with me on how they should have proceeded in this particular case.

But you still haven't explained why the view in question is chauvinistic.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I think given the violent nature of his crime which was directed toward a woman, rape, they should have thought twice about placing a female officer alone with this guy
Sorry, I don't buy that argument. There should be no special treatment like that for female officers. There shouldn't be any "sensitivity" to the crime the suspect committed. I thought women wanted to be treated equally? If you do, then you don't get special consideration. When you're in uniform, you're a cop, not a man or a woman. Nichols and his caretakers should have been matched up based on physical attributes only. If a Fulton County had a 6'4 220lb woman was a cop, then put her with him.

[oliegirl]

And you won't find any argument with me on how they should have proceeded in this particular case.

But you still haven't explained why the view in question is chauvinistic.

Because his original comment, which he prefaced by saying "Call me a chauvanist pig but..." said that female officers should't guard male prisoners. Making a generalized statement like that I think is chauvanistic...it's always easy to look back on a situation and say "shoulda, woulda, coulda"...and if this tragedy hadn't happened today we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But it did happen, and it makes me rethink the fact that a violent rapist was being guarded by a woman who was clearly smaller and unable to properly defend herself. Maybe if she was 6 foot tall and a body builder I'd have a different view point, but at this time, in my opinion, having that woman guard him was a mistake. Notice that I didn't say A woman, I said THAT woman....

[Franklinnoble]

Personally, I think a society that sends women to fight its battles has lost its way.

That's chivalry, not chauvinism.

I'm not trying to belittle women, I'm just saying there are things in this world that men ought to take care of, and they should be happy to do it.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

If a Fulton County had a 6'4 220lb woman was a cop, then put her with him.
I know some guys who would purposly commit crimes if they thought a 6'4 220lb woman cop would be frisking them... "Put ya hands up, sugah!"

[judicial clerk]

I think that, man or woman, the big mistake is having one guard for a inmate, especially one who is not shackled. Especially, especially one who exhibited high risk behavior (smuggling the shank). I would have sent three or four deputies, regardless of sex or size.

I wouldn't be suprised if there wasn't even a physical fitness test as part of the hiring process to get this job as a deputy.

My wife is a probation officer who carries a badge and all the paraphenalia ( gun, cuffs, asp). She takes defensive tactics courses on how to subdue people who resist arrest. None of the tactics she learns work on me, and I doubt she could withstand a punch from me.

So should women be cops or guards? To say no would be chauvenist, but to say yes either means that physical fitness and ability can play no part in the job or to pretend that women can meet the same physical fitness and ability standards as men.

[vtbub]

I think given the violent nature of his crime which was directed toward a woman, rape, they should have thought twice about placing a female officer alone with this guy, after he had already tried to smuggle homemade weapons into the courthouse. I think having a woman guard was in a way just taunting him. That is not to say that he wouldn't have done this if he was being guarded by a 7 foot tall muscular guy either, just an observation.


I think the bigger issue shoud be why was she by herself, especially 48 hours after them finding a knife.

I don't think gender is real important, but the lack of a partner, and the lack of protection, i.e. he being not secured, are the hugest mistakes.

[vtbub]

I think that, man or woman, the big mistake is having one guard for a inmate, especially one who is not shackled. Especially, especially one who exhibited high risk behavior (smuggling the shank). I would have sent three or four deputies, regardless of sex or size.

I wouldn't be suprised if there wasn't even a physical fitness test as part of the hiring process to get this job as a deputy.

My wife is a probation officer who carries a badge and all the paraphenalia ( gun, cuffs, asp). She takes defensive tactics courses on how to subdue people who resist arrest. None of the tactics she learns work on me, and I doubt she could withstand a punch from me.

So should women be cops or guards? To say no would be chauvenist, but to say yes either means that physical fitness and ability can play no part in the job or to pretend that women can meet the same physical fitness and ability standards as men.

Dola,

Considering what it takes to get through the academy, gender is not important.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

So should women be cops or guards? To say no would be chauvenist, but to say yes either means that physical fitness and ability can play no part in the job or to pretend that women can meet the same physical fitness and ability standards as men.So then let me ask this - is admitting there are physiological differences between a man and a woman chauvenistic? I think not. There are just some things men can do naturally that women can't.

Physical fitness and ability should play a role in these types of jobs. Safety depends on it. One set of standards, determined based on the needs of the job duties should be all that it takes. If you can meet them, then you'rw a cop/guard. If you can't, you're not.

But I know that will never, ever happen.


(oh - BTW I do agree with your comments about the number of guards.)

[HomerJSimpson]

My father was a firefighter in a major metropolitian fire department. He worked during the years women were first being brought into the department. He had no problem with the women that pitched in and pulled their weight, but there were a good number who only got the job by suing to get the physical requirements lowered, and then ducked any work that was too hard by saying they weren't strong enough to do it. If your not strong enough to pull a hose or carry someone out of a building, then you shouldn't be a firefighter.

[Franklinnoble]

.., but there were a good number who only got the job by suing to get the physical requirements lowered, and then ducked any work that was too hard by saying they weren't strong enough to do it. If your not strong enough to pull a hose or carry someone out of a building, then you shouldn't be a firefighter.

Same shit happens in the military. You can bet your ass enemy combatants aren't giving the women special consideration.

[HomerJSimpson]

Full Story:

Sheriff's official tells how shootings happened

> By BETH WARREN
Atlanta Journal-Constitution
> Published on: 03/11/05
Fulton Sheriff's Sgt. Mike Thompson described how a man in custody was able to obtain the gun he used to shoot and kill three people this morning at the Fulton County Courthouse.

Thompson said Deputy Cynthia Hall had shooting suspect Brian Nichols in a holding area on the eighth floor of the Justice Center Tower in downtown Atlanta. Nichols was changing his jail clothes to his street clothes to appear before Fulton County Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes in his rape case.

Before Hall was able to handcuff Nichols after he had changed, Thompson said, he grabbed the deputy's gun and shot her and grabbed her keys. Nichols needed the keys to leave the the hold room, which was between courtrooms 8A and 8B in the newest part of the courthouse.

Nichols opened the door and ran across a nearby walkway that connects the new part of the justice center to the old part, where Barnes was in court. Nichols made his way to the courtroom, entered and began shooting, Thompson said. Barnes was shot in the head. Court reporter Julie Brandau was also shot. Both died on the scene.

Nichols ran out of an exit and apparently ran down seven flights of stairs and out an emergency exit, which triggered an alarm, although deputies had already been put on alert. Nichols fled through the side of the building on Martin Luther King Drive.

Sheriff's Deputy Hoyt Teasley ran after Nichols as he left the building. As Teasley stepped off the sidewalk onto MLK, Nichols turned around and fired six shots, Thompson said. At least one hit Teasley in the abdomen.

Two female City Hall employees were walking down the sidewalk near the deputy before he was shot. They said Nichols looked at them coldly, looked at the deputy, then shot the deputy.

Teasley, who was not wearing a bulletproof vest, had drawn his gun but didn't have a chance to fire it. His weapon was found near his body.

Thompson arrived shortly thereafter and saw other sheriff's employees pick Teasley up and put him in a patrol car because traffic was blocked and ambulances could not reach him. Thompson told those helping Teasley to take him back out of the car so Thompson could administer CPR. The CPR was unsuccessful, and Teasley was put back into the patrol car.

Thompson wiped the blood off his hand and began roping off the area with yellow crime scene tape.

"I tried to help him. I did all I could," Thompson said as he hugged one of the City Hall employees after the shooting.

Thompson said Teasley was assigned to building security and would be seen as people entered the court building. Thompson called Teasley quiet and good-natured.

[oliegirl]

I think the bigger issue shoud be why was she by herself, especially 48 hours after them finding a knife.

I don't think gender is real important, but the lack of a partner, and the lack of protection, i.e. he being not secured, are the hugest mistakes.


I agree completely...but, for arguments sake, let's say that they are short staffed on Deputys and cannot put more than one per inmate when transporting them to jail. If you were the supervisor/manager in charge of assigning deputys, would you, knowing that this inmate was being charged with a violent crime against a woman, rape....place a female guard with him? Knowing she would be alone? Forgetting her size, or anything like that...if it were me, I would do everything I could to make sure this particular inmate had a male guard with him.

[vtbub]

For arguments sake, no.

I'm assuming that she is well trained for her assignment. I'm also assuming that her union would never allow that to begin with. As her supervisor, I need to have complete confidence in her being able to do all her duties.

[stevew]

The dangerous thing about this is that there may be people who will attempt to copy cat this guy. Figure if you are likely to do 20-life in jail anyways, being back on the street, with the chance to go out on your own terms is inticing to some. Especially when its been shown that security in a major metropolitian area can be so pisspoor. Its gotta be way easier to escape from smaller county courthouses.

[vtbub]

CNN.com is reporting that the car "allegedly" stolen has been found in downtown Atlanta.

[CraigSca]

In the same garage where the journalist was pistol-whipped THIS MORNING. You think they could have checked the entire garage in less than 15 hours?!

Absolutely incredible.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Am I the only one who, besides feeling aghast at what he did, read MLK and can't get Chris Rock out of my head? Maybe he ran out the emergency exit and called a friend. "I need you to come pick me up." "Yeah, where you at?" "I'm on MLK..." "RUN!!! RUN!!!"

[st.cronin]

SkyDog, please catch this guy already.

[SackAttack]

In the same garage where the journalist was pistol-whipped THIS MORNING. You think they could have checked the entire garage in less than 15 hours?!

Absolutely incredible.

If I'm Nichols, and a guy who's seen me and has a description of my vehicle gets away, I'm probably going to look for another vehicle immediately, but park the previous one somewhere else in the garage so as to throw the police off my trail.

I figure that's what happened here. It's a little astonishing that it took the police 15 hours to think of the same thing, but in the confusion it doesn't surprise me TOO much.

That said, CNN.com is reporting that Judge Barnes was the same judge who ordered sterilization for that lady who had 7 kids and then killed (drowned?) her 8th a while back. Not that that's relevant, I just found it interesting.

[stevew]

Am I the only one who, besides feeling aghast at what he did, read MLK and can't get Chris Rock out of my head? Maybe he ran out the emergency exit and called a friend. "I need you to come pick me up." "Yeah, where you at?" "I'm on MLK..." "RUN!!! RUN!!!"


lol

"Martin Luther King stood for peace. What is Martin Luther King now? A street. I don't care where you are in America if you are on MLK there's some violence going down."

[HomerJSimpson]

If I'm Nichols, and a guy who's seen me and has a description of my vehicle gets away, I'm probably going to look for another vehicle immediately, but park the previous one somewhere else in the garage so as to throw the police off my trail.

I figure that's what happened here. It's a little astonishing that it took the police 15 hours to think of the same thing, but in the confusion it doesn't surprise me TOO much.

That said, CNN.com is reporting that Judge Barnes was the same judge who ordered sterilization for that lady who had 7 kids and then killed (drowned?) her 8th a while back. Not that that's relevant, I just found it interesting.


Shaken baby syndrome. It was a plea agreement she agreed to, and this judge allowed it.

[SackAttack]

Shaken baby syndrome. It was a plea agreement she agreed to, and this judge allowed it.

Oh, I'm not passing judgment on the sentence involved. Just saying that I found it interesting that the judge should be involved in three fairly high-profile headlines so close together (the dead child, Heatley, and now this).

I guess bad things really do come in threes.

[Ragone]

Man Jack Bauer would have caught this guy by now.. Hell Sledge Hammer would have caught this guy by now.

This guy is probably out of the state by now

[Solecismic]

If nothing else, this is becoming beyond humiliating for the Atlanta police force.

First, the courthouse leaves one female deputy to guard an unshackled defendant facing life in prison for an extremely violent crime.

And now, they don't seem to understand that this guy has some intelligence, and knew not to travel far by daylight on foot or in a car known to be stolen. They should have sensed the pattern and scoured local garages for the Honda first. Hard to believe it took them more than 12 hours to find the Honda.

My biggest worry is that when he ditched the Honda, his next carjacking victim did go into the trunk (willingly or dead). The Keystone Kops don't have a chance.

[CraigSca]

I agree, this is looking pretty bad for the Atlanta police force.

A couple things caught my attention in particular. "We have over 100 officers working this case." That's all they can spare?! I realize there are cost issues involved, but there's a dangerous gunman on the loose! Obviously he's not the only criminal running around Atlanta, but this is SO high-profile and a matter of civic duty.

Second, "We will work this case day and night until he is apprehended." I realize there's not much you can say here, but...."DUH".

Considering this along with the Montgomery County sniper attacks a year ago - doesn't it seem a lot easier to slip through the cracks and blend in with society than previously thought?

The problem is...they had this guy. I know there are many modes of transportation in that area, but the longer this goes on, the better the chance that it'll be some off-duty policeman at a Dunkin Donuts in Nowhere, New Mexico that finally locates this guy.

[Celeval]

CNN is reporting that the car in the garage was found by Joe Random citizen, not the cops. So the police apparently didn't look, despite reports of the fugitive carjacking a tow truck nearby.

[KWhit]

CNN is reporting that the car in the garage was found by Joe Random citizen, not the cops. So the police apparently didn't look, despite reports of the fugitive carjacking a tow truck nearby.
Wow. That's sad.

[Ksyrup]

This is truly unbelievable. For the car to be in the same parking lot, and for them not to find it, but instead put out an APB for that car based on the ALC reporter's comments, is simply stunning. Did the reporter (or anyone?) see him drive out of the parking lot in that car? I bet not!

He must have someone as a hostage (or dead), because someone would have come forward and said their car was stolen/carjacked, etc., and they know a car crashed through a barrier to exit.

[Ksyrup]

"The garage's lower level exit gate, used only by parkers with monthly passes, was broken and detectives told CNN they believe Nichols crashed through it after taking another car on that level.

But they have not ruled out the possibility that he may have walked out of the garage."


You would think, given all that's occurred, that someone would have been reported missing. Maybe he just stole a car...

[vtbub]

CNN and MSNBC are reporting that an off-duty customs officer was shot and killed in Nicholls neighborhood, the truck was stolen along with his gun and ammo.

[cuervo72]

Man Jack Bauer would have caught this guy by now.. Hell Sledge Hammer would have caught this guy by now.


Yeah, but Hammer would have nuked the entire city in the process.

[Tekneek]

What an embarassment. This is the same police force that is infamous with me for :

(1) conducting a raid on an "adult entertainment" store and carrying out dildos and vibrators
(2) an Atlanta PD officer, standing next to me on the sidewalk, laughing when a pedestrian was almost ran down on West Peachtree ST
(3) refusing to show up to a car break-in where multiple items were ripped off and blood from the perpetrator was on the scene

If this lone individual can discombobulate the entire city's police force, I hate to think about what would happen if someone was really out to do some damage to a lot of people. They beat people trying to pick up family at the airport, but they have a 51 year old grandmother guarding a prisoner.

[cuervo72]

Yep...really, you would think that terrorists could take this line of action - they wouldn't need explosive, just guns (and Nichols started w/o even that), and if there were say, 5 or 10 of them rather than just 1...

[HomerJSimpson]

Nichols has been caught in Gwinnett county at the home of a friend.

[HomerJSimpson]

They are also reporting a pick-up truck fitting the discription of the one stolen from the Customs agent is in the parking lot. Might be another truck, but it matches the physical discription.

[ISiddiqui]

WOOO!!

That's good news! Way to go ATL police!

[HomerJSimpson]

WOOO!!

That's good news! Way to go ATL police!


It was Gwinnett SWAT. :D

[Buzzbee]

WOOO!!

That's good news! Way to go Gwinnett police!
Fixed.

[HomerJSimpson]

They are reporting he is in Federal custody. That suggests that he is strong suspect on the Federal agent murder.

[HomerJSimpson]

The AJC says it was the Customs Agent's pickup truck that tip police off. He got one more before finally going down.

[HomerJSimpson]

Suspect captured at Gwinnett apartment complex
> Judge, deputy, court reporter slain at courthouse

> By CAMERON McWHIRTER, STEVE VISSER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
> Published on: 03/12/05
Fugitive Brian G. Nichols was taken into custody about 11:30 this morning at an apartment complex in Gwinnett County, according to Gwinnett police. Police surrounded an apartment in the Bridgewater apartments, on Satellite Boulevard, near the Gwinnett Place Mall. After a brief standoff, he was arrested.

Police were alerted to the area because the blue pickup truck of a slain custom's agent was parked in the lot.

The customs agent, who has not yet been identified, was found shot dead at 8:30 a.m. this morning.

The discovery comes as a massive manhunt continues for Brian Nichols, 33, who is suspected of shooting and killing the judge in his rape case and two others on Friday.

Nichols apparently was holding a hostage at the apartments before he surrendered.

Facing life in prison, Nichols transformed himself Friday morning from accused rapist to hunted fugitive after he grabbed a handgun from a deputy sheriff and burst into a Fulton County courtroom and opened fire, killing a judge and a court reporter.

As he made his escape from the courthouse in downtown Atlanta, he shot to death a deputy who briefly impeded his getaway, police said.

Police acknowledged early Saturday morning that the car they earlier believed he had used for his escape was found in the downtown Atlanta parking lot where it had been reported stolen in the morning.

Saturday morning, WSB-TV reported that someone claiming to be Nichols had called authorities and made a threat to kill the prosecutor in his case, Assistant District Attorney Gayle Abramson.

According to the WSB report, the call was made around 4:15 p.m. Friday. There was no confirmation that the person calling was in fact Nichols, but as a precaution extra security was provided for Abramson.

Within the span of 15 minutes, Nichols shut down the state's busiest courthouse, caused chaos in downtown Atlanta and put law enforcement throughout the Southeast on high alert.

He left a despairing legal community in Atlanta wondering about the worst security breach yet in Fulton County's flawed justice system. And his violence sparked a nation to wrestle once again with the difficult issue of security in its halls of justice.

It was unclear what moved Nichols to shoot and kill Rowland Barnes, 64, the widely respected Fulton County Superior Court judge assigned to Nichols' trial. Yet it seemed that Nichols had worked with a purpose: After the 210-pound former college football player overpowered Deputy Cynthia Hall — who was guarding him as he changed from his jail jumpsuit into street clothes for his trial — he set out for Barnes' courtroom instead of taking a quick route to freedom.

Courthouse officials said that Nichols entered Barnes' private chambers demanding to see the judge shortly after 9 a.m. A staff member pushed a "panic" button, triggering a light in the courtroom. Nichols overpowered and handcuffed a deputy who responded to the alarm.

He took his gun, and armed with two weapons, Nichols stormed into the courtroom and opened fire. After shooting Barnes, he shot and killed Julie Ann Brandau, 46, the court reporter seated near the judge.

Richard L. Robbins, a lawyer, was arguing an unrelated civil case before Barnes when the shootings occurred. "It was just horrific," said Robbins, who was too shaken to say much more Friday afternoon.

Renee Rockwell, a lawyer working on an unrelated case, walked into Barnes' courtroom just after the shooting. "I saw hats on the ground, and all the deputies were running with guns drawn," Rockwell said. "You don't ever see that." She said she was pushed into an elevator by deputies. One was crying.

The two prosecutors trying the case, Gayle Abramson and Ash Joshi, were still in their offices in the courthouse complex. Jurors on the Nichols case were in the building but had not yet been called to the courtroom.

"He wanted the people who were involved in his trial," said Deputy District Attorney Al Dixon.

Nichols' opportunity presented itself when he found himself alone with Hall, a 51-year-old grandmother who is about 5 feet tall, police said.

Hall was with Nichols in a windowless holding room on the eighth floor of the newer of Fulton County's two court buildings. Barnes' courtroom is in the older building nearby. Nichols pounced on Hall, who was injured so badly that emergency officials later couldn't determine whether she was severely beaten or shot in the face. Her skull was cracked, her brain was bruised and the bones around her right eye were fractured, said Dr. Jeffrey Salomone, a trauma surgeon at Grady Memorial Hospital.

Equipped with Hall's gun and police radio, Nichols walked from the newer building to the older one, using a sky bridge that joins them.

After the shooting, he bolted from the bloodied courtroom and made for a stairwell, running down eight flights out an emergency door, setting off an alarm.

Deputies chased down the stairs after him. Crossing Martin Luther King Jr. Drive, he entered the Underground Atlanta parking garage. He ran into Deputy Hoyt Teasley, 43.

Nichols shot Teasley multiple times in the stomach and then carjacked an SUV, police said. Teasley, who wasn't wearing a bulletproof vest, had pulled his gun but didn't have a chance to fire it, said Fulton County Sgt. Mike Thompson. His gun was found near his body, Thompson said.

Thompson struggled to save Teasley's life. "I did all I could," said Thompson, who wiped the blood off his hand and began roping off the area with yellow crime scene tape.

As police swarmed, Nichols stole a dark SUV and sped away.

Steve Robinson, 16, of Atlanta was walking to the courthouse when he heard shots from the parking garage. He turned to see a man being tossed from the SUV. "People were running out of the parking lot, scrambling everywhere," Robinson said. "Everyone was scared to death."

A few blocks to the west, Deronta Franklin, a tow-truck driver, was waiting on a dispatch at Peachtree and Wall streets when he saw a dark SUV round the corner and hit the curb. Police cars followed. Suddenly, the driver of the SUV was at Franklin's window, pointing a gun at his face. "He told me to get out of the truck, and I told him he could have the truck," Franklin said.

The man got in Franklin's truck and sped north on Peachtree Street, then took a left on Walton Street, going the wrong way down a one-way street.

Minutes later, Almeta Kilgo, 37, a computer programmer for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, was parking in the Cone Street parking garage when a man believed to be Nichols approached. "He came over, put a gun to my head, and told me to 'move over,' " she said. He started to drive the car, but could not figure how to exit the garage. "He kept saying, 'Get in the trunk,' " Kilgo said.

Kilgo ran away screaming, and Nichols drove off.

A few moments later, Don O'Briant, a veteran reporter at the Journal-Constitution, was parking at a garage on the same street when a man approached him asking for directions. When the man pulled a gun and demanded his keys O'Briant complied. The man then told O'Briant to get into the trunk of O'Briant's 1997 green Honda Accord. O'Briant refused.

O'Briant said he began to run when the man hit him over his left eye with either the butt of his gun or his fist, gashing O'Briant's head.

Law enforcement put out a nationwide alert searching for O'Briant's car, listing the license plate. Late Friday night, however, a Journal-Constitution employee found O'Briant's car parked in the same garage where the carjacking had occurred more than 12 hours earlier.

Police refused to discuss why the car had not been discovered in earlier sweeps of the deck.

And Nichols was gone.

Barry Hazen, Nichols' attorney, described his client, a former UPS worker and dropout from Kutztown University in Pennsylvania, as "very laid-back, very easygoing, very polite."

Hazen, however, thought Nichols was going to prison on felony charges that he raped and held hostage a former girlfriend. It was Nichols' second time around on the charges: a trial ended last week with a hung jury.

"I didn't think the jury was going to do anything but convict," Hazen said. "I was very surprised. This time around, I thought he had no chance."

Juror Robert Singleton, 40, said he was in the first-floor cafeteria when a couple of deputies got up from their table and said there was trouble on the eighth floor. "He probably thought today was Judgment Day," Singleton said of Nichols. Singleton said he had not yet decided whether Nichols was guilty in the rape case.

"The only thing I had decided was that someone had gone crazy, either him or the [woman who accused him of rape]," Singleton said. "And now we know who."

From about 9:30 a.m. into Friday night, news helicopters followed squad cars around the metro area, tracking down rumored sightings of Nichols. Clayton County police officers circled a Jonesboro neighborhood Friday morning where the suspects' parents live.

Emergency messages were posted on highway signs across the state and law enforcement agencies from Atlanta Police to the FBI were put on alert. Atlanta public schools were put on lockdown throughout Friday.

The shootings brought a special prayer in the General Assembly. Lt. Gov. Mark Taylor started the Senate session today saying, "If there ever was a day we need a devotional and prayer, it is today."

Gov. Sonny Perdue, speaking outside Grady hospital, said "It is a sad day for our country."


Barnes' neighbors wept in the street when they learned of his death.

Enriqueta R. Lineres, who lives next door to the Barnes family, said, "Oh, Jesus. Oh, Lord. Why? My heart is broke."

[ISiddiqui]

Bah, Gwinnett is basically part of Atlanta anyway :p.

[flere-imsaho]

If this lone individual can discombobulate the entire city's police force, I hate to think about what would happen if someone was really out to do some damage to a lot of people.

I agree absolutely. With this level of competence, I shudder to think what an organized terrorist cell could do if they wanted. Of course, at this rate, we may find out in a couple of years. Good to know 4 years of concentration on Homeland Security has netted us so much improvement.

[Tekneek]

I agree absolutely. With this level of competence, I shudder to think what an organized terrorist cell could do if they wanted. Of course, at this rate, we may find out in a couple of years. Good to know 4 years of concentration on Homeland Security has netted us so much improvement.

The biggest news with the ATL PD, that I've been aware of, is how the vice squad impounds the vehicles of "Johns" and the reputation they have for physically assaulting women trying to pick up their parents/grandparents at the airport. Apparently those were the areas they needed the improvements in after 9/11.

[Tekneek]

Bah, Gwinnett is basically part of Atlanta anyway :p.

Yeah, right. :cool:

Gwinnett works hard to be seen as separate of Atlanta, IMO. Now they get to take some of the glory.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm just stunned that the lone guard was a 5 foot 51 year old woman. The fact that she was so badly hurt that they can't tell if she was shot or beat is stunning too. I'm just glad this A-hole is caught.

[HomerJSimpson]

Three interesting tidbits:

1. Police are afraid there might be another victim. Since he didn't take that Accord, they think he somehow stole another vehicle to get to the Lenox area to kill the Cutom agent. It is possible that he high-jacked and kidnapped the agent, but they are afraid he might have taken a car and killed someone else.

2. The police knew he was still in the area because he stole a cell phone from one of the car jack victims, and it stayed on him the whole time. They knew he was moving in certain areas, but they couldn't pin-point exactly where.

3. A citizen called the police to tip them off he was in the apartments he was captured in. He saw him run from the pick-up and running into the apartment.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

The last time this much damage was incurred in Atlanta, Bill Sherman blew thru town.

[Bubba Wheels]

The last time this much damage was incurred in Atlanta, Bill Sherman blew thru town.

Georgia Cop to speeding Yankee: "Nobody goes that fast thru Georgia!"

Yankee's response: "Sherman did"

[Bubba Wheels]

Interesting how the different cable news are talking about this. First thought I had was "was the overpowered deputy a female?" Similar thing happened in Detroit couple of years ago. Fox News has consistantly stated is was a 'female deputy." MSNBC has studiously avoided using the word 'female' in front of deputy. Being PC? Not sure about the others.

[dawgfan]

Alleged rapist... already tried to take a weapon to court... left alone in a room, unrestrained, with one female cop.

Seriously... criminal charges need to be brought against whoever's in charge around there. People are dead because somebody was really, really, fucking stupid.

Agree 100%. This was just monumental incompetance that allowed this to happen.

[Ben E Lou]

I've met David Allman several times. He's very involved in the Fulton County branch of the ministry I work for.Witness tells of horror at Fulton courthouse

David Allman, an Atlanta real estate attorney, was among several people taken hostage by gunman Brian Nichols during Friday's shooting spree.

Allman, 51, said he had arrived early to the Fulton County courthouse, hoping Judge Rowland Barnes would hear his real estate case, but Barnes had already started hearing other cases. So Allman sat alone in a waiting room, drinking a cup of coffee and reading the newspaper.

<!--endclickprintinclude--><!--startclickprintinclude--> He saw two women, a court secretary and a calendar clerk, walking toward him with a well-dressed man carrying a gun. He didn't think anything of it, since he assumed the man was an undercover police officer. He recognized the gun as the standard issue weapon of a sheriff's deputy.

But then the man turned the gun on Allman and, without a word, motioned with the gun for all three of them to walk into the Barnes's private office. He ordered them all onto the floor and handcuffed Allman and the secretary.

The two women, he said, "were just hysterical."

"I knew why he was there," Allman said. "He's after the judge."

Nichols ripped the phone out of the wall and searched all three for cell phones. Then he popped in and out of the judge's office two or three times, each time for only about 30 seconds, Allman said.

"Where's the judge?", he demanded of the women.

The secretary told him Barnes was in the courtroom.

"Which courtroom?", he asked. And she told him.

Nichols was strangely focused and calm, Allman said.

"He was quite calm, but he was keyed up," Allman said. "He acted like a cop. He was that calm."

Nichols exited the room again, and there were sounds of a scuffle. The women started feeling better, since they thought he was being subdued by a deputy. Then Nichols walked in with the deputy — a heavy-set man perhaps 60 years old — but it was Nichols carrying the deputy's gun. Now he had two guns.

Nichols put the deputy on the floor behind the judge's desk and handcuffed the man with his own handcuffs. Allman said he snatched off the deputy's tie, presumably to tie up the other hostage, but realized it was a clip on tie. Then he tried to wrench off Allman's tie but, while still holding a gun in the other hand, but couldn't manage it.

Nichols heard a code come over the deputy's radio — "158, 158". He then keyed the handset and said "158, 158" into the headset. "I thought that was pretty bold," Allman said.

After putting the deputy in the closet, Nichols left for about a minute.

"We heard two shots, and screams," Allman said. "And then nothing happens."

The deputy then got out of the closet and, with his hands cuffed in front of him, started calling into his radio: "There's a shooter loose on the 8th floor of the old building. There's a shooter loose on the 8th floor. We think he shot a judge."

Seconds later, three people came running into Barnes' private chamber, saying that somebody shot the judge. Allman told them to lock the door for safety. And they called 911.

Then about 10 deputies came in and took them all into a jury room. It was there that Allman heard from witnesses what happened in the courtroom.

Nichols entered the courtroom from a door behind the judge. He walked over to the judge, put the gun to the back of his head, and — without saying a word, pulled the trigger, Allman said.

Nichols then fired a shot at the court reporter.

One of the civil attorneys at the desk in front of the judge ran out the courtroom's double doors, and Nichols ran out behind him.

Allman recalled he had a gun pulled on him some 30 years ago in court in a domestic dispute case, but the husband did not shoot and gave up. This time, he said he was thinking, "I'm just collateral. But I know we may all be collateral damage."

Allman added: "I'm just glad he didn't shoot me. I knew it could happen at any second."

<!-- end Java setup --><!-- CONTENT ENDS HERE --><!--endclickprintinclude-->

[stevew]

I cant believe this guy didnt go down in a hail of bullets. You kill a judge and try to escape cause you might get a life sentance, meanwhile adding 3-4 more people to your body count. And then you surrender, now will pretty much 100% get the death penalty, and spend the rest of your life in prison. It just seems pretty odd.

[Ben E Lou]

I cant believe this guy didnt go down in a hail of bullets. You kill a judge and try to escape cause you might get a life sentance, meanwhile adding 3-4 more people to your body count. And then you surrender, now will pretty much 100% get the death penalty, and spend the rest of your life in prison. It just seems pretty odd.Well, based on David's account, it certainly sounds like he was very much after the judge, which was not the prevailing thought yesterday.

[stevew]

Depending on how it is meant, this could be troublesome


As Nichols was taken into federal custody, a crowd of people cheered across the street from the apartment complex where he was arrested. They watched as a black sport utility vehicle drove away, escorted by multiple police cars with lights flashing and sirens wailing.

Surely they were cheering for the cops?

[Ben E Lou]

Depending on how it is meant, this could be troublesome


As Nichols was taken into federal custody, a crowd of people cheered across the street from the apartment complex where he was arrested. They watched as a black sport utility vehicle drove away, escorted by multiple police cars with lights flashing and sirens wailing.

Surely they were cheering for the cops?Absolutely. There were people stopping their cars all along the route from Gwinnett to the FBI HQ. (My wife saw the caravan, FYI, and confirmed this.) All were cheering for the cops.

[Ragone]

Yeah, but Hammer would have nuked the entire city in the process.

And this is bad because? :)

[Radii]

That apartment complex is about 5 minutes from where Oliegirl and I live. Also, when they took him onto the interstate, there is a very good chance that the office I work in was visible from the chopper feed that was going out everywhere. Freaky to be that close to something that turned into such a national story like this.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I work at a radio station that airs the Michael Savage show. He had this guy filling in for him named Rick Roberts. Roberts did an amazing thing on friday night. In the three hours he was on I heard him talking about three things: 1. A local thing in San Diego involving a war memorial (the way he talked about it you would have thought it was the end of the world.) 2. The woman whose husband wants her feeding tube removed. 3. How much he appreciates filling in (at least four times per hour.) Not once in three hours did I hear even a mention of anything in Atlanta. Amazing. I would have thought the show was on tape, but you don't play tape of a fill-in.

[Ben E Lou]

The level of the security failures continues to grow as the details get out. The supposedly-monitored security camera in the area were Nichols attacked the female deputy captured the initial assult, but didn't help capture the suspect.

Camera rolled during attack
Control desk failed to notice assault
A surveillance camera captured Brian G. Nichols' surprise attack on a Fulton County sheriff's deputy, but no one in the control center noticed the assault and sent help, said a law enforcement official who viewed the security tape.

The camera, one of more than 40 stationed in the Fulton County courthouse, showed the 6-foot-1 Nichols assaulting Deputy Cynthia Hall and escaping with her gun. Hall was escorting Nichols to a holding cell before his rape retrial resumed.

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</td><td width="5">http://www.ajc.com/shared-local/images/1pix_trans.gif</td></tr></tbody></table><!--startclickprintinclude--> Moments after the attack, which occurred before 9 a.m. Friday, witnesses say Nichols made his way through the courthouse and gunned down a judge, a court reporter and one of Hall's fellow deputies. Hours later, he allegedly killed a federal agent.

Hall remained in critical condition with severe head injuries at Grady Memorial Hospital.

"It's not just horrible, it was preventable," said Senior Superior Court Judge Philip Etheridge. Hall's relatives and friends in West Virginia, where the deputy grew up, also wondered why more security measures were not taken to reduce the chances of such an attack.

Some courthouse veterans say sheriff's department policies would have to be rewritten and deputies retrained to prevent similar attacks in the future.

Hall, they said, followed accepted security procedures in dealing with a prisoner, even though they put her at risk. Policies allow one deputy to escort as many as four inmates at a time.

At 8:48 a.m. on Friday, Hall took a handcuffed Nichols from the detention area at the bottom of the downtown Justice Center Tower and put him in an elevator to take him to an eighth-floor holding area. There, Nichols was to change into his civilian clothes and resume a rape retrial before Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes.

The holding room, which has two cells, is supposed to be a secure area between courtrooms in the modern Justice Center Tower.

A video camera, which is supposed to be monitored by two guards in a command post, shows the two arriving in the holding area between two courtrooms, according to a law enforcement official who viewed the tape.

The video shows Hall guiding Nichols, whose hands are still handcuffed behind his back, face-first into one of two open cells.

Hall releases one cuff and turns Nichols around to unhook the remaining cuff, which is dangling from his wrist. She uncuffs him so he can change from a jail jumpsuit into street clothes.

The muscular, 33-year-old Nichols then lunges at Hall, knocking the petite, 51-year-old woman backward into another cell. Both disappear from camera view because having a camera inside the actual holding cells is prohibited for privacy reasons. Two to three minutes later, Nichols emerges from the cell, holding Hall's gun belt and police radio. He picks up her keys from the floor and locks her inside the cell. Nichols then enters the empty cell.

A couple of minutes later, he emerges dressed in civilian clothes. He locks the door behind him and saunters calmly out of the holding area, carrying the gun belt, according to the law enforcement official who viewed the tape. Nichols appears to know which key to use to unlock the holding area door and enters a vacant courtroom on the eighth floor.

Nichols told Atlanta police that on the way out he retrieved the deputy's gun from a security lockbox where Hall had placed the weapon. He was able to get the weapon because he had Hall's keys.

Nichols then crosses the bridge to the eighth floor of the adjacent old Fulton County courthouse. Minutes later, the shooting began that mortally wounded Judge Barnes and court reporter Julie Ann Brandau.

Nichols strolled into Barnes' office from a side doorway and herded a real estate lawyer, the judge's secretary and a case manager into the judge's private chambers. He then captured Deputy Grantley White, handcuffed him and put him into a closet.

Moments later, the hostages heard two gunshots and screaming.

Witnesses say Nichols entered the courtroom from a door behind Barnes' bench and fatally shot him and Brandau.

It was only then that the first distress call went out.

White, who was handcuffed, stumbled out of a closet in Barnes' office and used his radio to broadcast a "Signal 63," indicating that an officer needed backup.

No deputies knew Hall was critically injured.

In the detention center of the Justice Center Tower, at least eight deputies took the elevator to the eighth floor on their way to Barnes' court. They hurried through the holding area where Nichols had left Hall, not realizing she was on a cell floor. She was discovered after Deputy White reported to responding deputies that Hall was missing.

Barnes had requested additional security for Nichols' trial after deputies found two sharp door hinges in the defendant's socks earlier in the week, said Gayle Abramson, the lead Fulton County prosecutor handling Nichols' case. At a news conference Saturday, Sheriff Myron Freeman said he didn't know whether Hall knew of the increased threat or whether extra precautions had been taken.

"She shouldn't have been there to start with," Judge Etheridge said, referring to the size disparity between Hall, a petite grandmother, and Nichols, a former college linebacker.

"There should have been at least two, possibly three, good-sized deputies and they should have been warned," Etheridge said.

Deputies said a security flaw is that cells at the courthouse have solid doors, which leaves a solitary guard like Hall vulnerable to attack. Ideally, a deputy should be able to lock a prisoner inside the cell and have the prisoner stick his or her hands through door slot to be cuffed or uncuffed to ensure the deputy's security.

"Whoever designed that area had never handled inmates before," said a courthouse security veteran.

After attacking Hall and killing Barnes and Brandau, Nichols reportedly gunned down Sheriff's Deputy Hoyt Teasley outside the courthouse in downtown Atlanta and later killed David Wilhelm, an assistant special agent in charge of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Atlanta office.

[Ben E Lou]

Setting himself up for an insanity defense???

I believe God brought him to my door'
Taken hostage in her home, Duluth woman shared her life, faith
Just two days after moving into her Duluth apartment, Ashley Smith is up late unpacking.

About 2 a.m. Saturday, the 26-year-old runs out of cigarettes and heads to a convenience store to buy a pack of Marlboro Light Menthols.

<!--endclickprintinclude--><table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="175"><tbody><tr><td>http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/02/13/40/image_1440132.jpg (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/noads/0305/HOSTAGE_CC6_1790684.html)
(ENLARGE) (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/noads/0305/HOSTAGE_CC6_1790684.html)
</td></tr><tr><td class="caption">During her hours with Brian Nichols, Ashley Smith talked about her 5-year-old daughter and her late husband. She told Nichols if he killed her, he would leave her daughter an orphan.
</td></tr><tr><td><table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="170"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc" width="170">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td><td width="5">http://www.ajc.com/shared-local/images/1pix_trans.gif</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table><!--startclickprintinclude--> When she returns, she sees a man in a truck waiting outside her door. She had seen the man earlier, but didn't think much of it. Seeing him again puts her on high alert.

She gets out of her car and shuts the door.

She hears the truck door close about the same time. Fear rises in her.

Holding her key in her hand, she makes her way to her front door and senses his presence. As she slides her key into the lock, she turns to face the man from the truck. She screams. He pokes a gun into her ribs.

"Stop screaming," he demands. "I won't hurt you if you stop screaming."

She fears the worst — that she will be raped and killed.

"Do you know who I am?" he asks.

He is wearing a dark blazer beneath a red ski parka but no shirt. He has a new UGA cap on his head.

She doesn't know him.

He removes the cap, showing his shaved head.

"Now do you know who I am?" he asks again.

She recognizes him now: Brian G. Nichols. She begins to tremble.

"I won't hurt you," he tells her.

He takes her into the bathroom, places her in the tub and sits on a small chair, holding a gun.

He leaves her to check for other people in the apartment. When he returns, he tries again to reassure her. "I don't want to hurt anyone else," he says.

He worries that her screams could bring too much attention. "If you scream, the police will come. There will be a hostage situation," he says. "I'll have to kill you and kill myself."

He binds her with masking tape and carries her into the bedroom, where he restrains her with more tape, an electrical cord and some curtains. He makes no sexual advance.

"I just need to relax," he tells her.

He needs a shower and leads her as she hops back to the bathroom. He sits her on the chair and drapes a towel over her head for modesty. He places his guns on the counter and showers.

After he finds some fresh clothes — a T-shirt from a bar where she once worked and the trousers of a former boyfriend. He seems to be calmer.

He unbinds her and they sit in her living room.

"I've had a really long day," he says.

He offers her some faint explanation — maybe his first to account to anyone of how he had spent this long day.

"I feel like I'm a warrior. The people of my color have gone through a lot."

But he says he's had enough. "I don't want to hurt anybody anymore," he tells her. "I don't want to kill anybody.

"I want to rest."

The atmosphere becomes more normal, as normal as it could be.

Smith asks if he would mind if she reads.

Nichols says OK. She gets the book she'd been reading, "The Purpose Driven Life." It is a book that offers daily guidance. She picks up where she had left off — the first paragraph of the 33rd chapter.

"We serve God by serving others. The world defines greatness in terms of power, possessions, prestige and position. If you can demand service from others you've arrived. In our self serving culture with its me first mentality, acting like a servant is not a popular concept."

He stops her and asks her to read that again.

They talk and lose track of time. They look at her family photos. "Who's this?" he asks, pointing to a picture. "Who's this?"

She tells him about her family. Her husband died in her arms four years ago after he had been stabbed in a knife fight in Augusta, her hometown. She has a 5-year-old daughter.

She implores him not to kill her because that would leave her daughter without a mother or a father.

She tells him she is supposed tovisit her daughter Saturday morning about 10 a.m. at Hebron Baptist Church in Dacula. She hadn't seen her in two weeks. "She's expecting to see me," she tells him. "She's already been through a lot in her life."

Smith shows Nichols her husband's autopsy report. "That's what a lot of people will have to go through now, because of what you've done," she tells him. "You need to turn yourself in. No one else needs to die, and you're going to die if you don't."

Smith asks Nichols how he feels about what he did — what about the families of the victims?

She senses a change. "He wasn't a warrior anymore," she recalled later.

"You can go in there right now, pick up that gun and kill me," he tells her. "I'd rather you do it than the police."

He talks about his mother, who is in Africa on business, and wonders what she must be thinking about her son.

They sit watching the TV news of the shooting spree. The screen fills with the story of his attack on Cynthia Hall, the 51-year-old deputy he had overpowered Friday morning to begin his rampage.

"I didn't shoot her," Nichols interjects. "I hit her really hard. Lord, I'm sorry. . . . I hope she lives."

He sees himself on the broadcast. "I can't believe that's me," he says.

Nichols later pulls out the badge and driver's license of David Wilhelm, the U.S. customs agent whom he is accused of killing hours before. He hands them to Smith.

Smith looks at the license and tells Nichols that Wilhelm was 40 years old. "He probably has a wife and kids," she says.

"I didn't want to kill him," Nichols says. "He wouldn't do what I asked him to do. He fought me, so I had to kill him."

Smith tells Nichols he must surrender.

"I deserve a bullet in the back," he tells her.

No, Smith says, but he must be held accountable for what he did.

Smith tells Nichols his life still has a purpose. By ministering to other inmates, "you can go to jail and save many more people than you killed."

As the night wears on, Smith begins to feel her chances improve.

Nichols tells her he will let her go to see her daughter later in the morning.

Around 6:15 a.m., Nichols says that before sunrise he needs to move the truck he is accused of stealing from Wilhelm.

She agrees to follow him in her car. He leaves the guns under her bed.

As they drive, Smith thinks about calling 911 on her cellphone, but she decides against it. She fears police will come and surround them. There'd be a shootout.

Nichols ditches the truck off Buford Highway, about two miles from the apartment complex.

"Wow, you didn't drive off," Nichols says as he gets into her car. "I thought you were going to."

She drives him back to her apartment. She no longer doubts that she will be set free.

Back at the apartment, Nichols is hungry. She cooks him eggs and pancakes, gives him fruit juice. They have breakfast together.

Nichols asks when she needs to see her daughter. At 10:00 a.m., Smith responds. It'd be good if she could leave at 9:30 to get there.

Smith washes the dishes and gets ready to leave.

Nichols asks her to come visit him in jail. "You're an angel sent from God to me," he tells her. "I want to talk to you again. Will you come see me?"

She tells him she will.

"I'll be back in a little while," she says.

Nichols gives her an odd look that makes Smith wonder whether he believes her.

At the door, he hands her $40. "Take it," Nichols says. "I don't have any need for it."

Nichols holds an electronic stud finder he took from Wilhelm's truck and asks if he can hang some of her pictures or curtainswhile she's gone.

Smith tells him to do whatever he likes.

As she walks into the bright, warm daylight, Smith begins to tremble. She drives to a stop sign and dials 911. She tells the dispatcher that Nichols is in her apartment.

Within minutes, a Gwinnett police SWAT team swarms outside Smith's apartment. Nichols holds out a white piece of cloth and surrenders. Smith was watching from behind a van parked across the parking lot.

Sunday night, after recounting her time with Nichols, Smith said she believes there was some purpose to his finding her.

"I believe God brought him to my door so he couldn't hurt anyone else," she said.

[Ksyrup]

Among the things that stand out in that article about the security problems:

1. "Policies allow one deputy to escort as many as four inmates at a time."

Wow. Maybe that's SOP, and not all of them would be unhandcuffed at the same time, but geez. I would think it at least possible that 4 muscular men, even handcuffed, could manage to overcome one deputy in a coordinated attack.

2. "In the detention center of the Justice Center Tower, at least eight deputies took the elevator to the eighth floor on their way to Barnes' court."

Not one of them thought to take the stairs?!

[HomerJSimpson]

Good point. Even Jeb Ames and Willie Joe Garr thought to guard the stairs so Julie Grey couldn't get away.


Still watching those Dallas DVD's, eh?

[Ben E Lou]

Not one of them thought to take the stairs?!Good point. Even Jeb Ames and Willie Joe Garr thought to guard the stairs so Julie Grey couldn't get away.

[Ben E Lou]

Still watching those Dallas DVD's, eh?:D

[Ben E Lou]

From Neal Nuze this morning. Priceless...

THE 26-HOUR REIGN OF MURDER AND TERROR http://boortz.com/images/nichols_arrest.jpg

By now most of you are aware of what happened here in Atlanta last Friday. A man on trial for rape escapes from a deputy sheriff in the courthouse, kills a judge, a court stenographer and a deputy sheriff. Hours later he kills an off-duty U.S. Customs Agent. He's captured the next day after holding a remarkable young woman named Ashley Smith in her apartment for hours. Here's a little Q&A to fill you in on some details:

How did Brian Nichols get the gun in the first place?

He overpowered a 51-year-old female deputy sheriff. Alone she escorted him into a holding area where she took off his handcuffs so that he could change into street clothes for trial.

There seem to be a lot of details out there on how Nichols overpowered the deputy sheriff and got her gun.

That's because it was all caught on tape.

You mean there's a video?

Exactly. There was a surveillance camera in the holding area where the attack took place.

Was someone supposed to be monitoring the camera?

There were two officers in the command center who were supposed to be monitoring the surveillance cameras. If they were, they didn't see this attack. It would seem safe to assume that they weren't exactly paying close attention to the cameras.

Did the killer run from the courthouse after the shootings?

Now there's an interesting question. That's what everybody thought. After all, he did shoot and kill a Deputy Sheriff as he left the courthouse. Things got a bit confusing though during a Friday afternoon press conference when Fulton County Sheriff Myron Freeman said that he "allegedly" ran from the courthouse. Allegedly? But then, the Sheriff used the "allegedly" word about six times in every sentence during his statements to the press. We may have questions about the abilities of the Sheriff of Fulton County and about his employees who protect the courthouse, but we now know that he sure does have a handle on the "allegedly" word.

Were citizens alerted to be on the lookout for a particular type of car?

Yes ... we were told all day Friday to be looking for a specific green Honda Accord.

Did they ever find the Honda?

Yup.

Where was the green Honda Accord?

It was right there in the parking garage next to the Courthouse. Right where the killer left it, and right smack in the middle of the largest concentration of law enforcement officers at that time in the entire Southeast. It took them 13 hours to find that Honda in the parking garage.

Did a police officer or sheriff's deputy finally find the Honda?

Nope. It was discovered by a co-worker of the Honda's owner late in the afternoon.

So, how did the killer flee the area?

Apparently he took MARTA, the rapid rail line, and headed North to Lenox Square.

Well, if he took MARTA, why didn't they catch him as he was getting on or getting off a train? Surely they took steps to watch MARTA stations for the killer as soon as the shootings happened, didn't they?

Uhhhhhh ... no, they didn't.

Why not?

Because they were too busy looking for the green Honda that was ...

...still parked in the courthouse parking garage, right?

Yup. The Honda seemed to be their entire focus. No need to be searching or watching MARTA stations. The Atlanta police chief, Richard Pennington, told the media: "We still thought he was still in the car. We had no reason to close down MARTA."

Where did Brian Nichols head then?

Apparently he got off the MARTA train at the Lenox Square Station. He certainly would have been a lot less conspicuous there than he would have been in Doraville.

What did he do next?

He accosted a woman on Lenox Road and forced her into her apartment. Her boyfriend was there. Nichols and the boyfriend got into a scuffle and Nichols ran.

Was this reported to police?

Yes, the woman and her boyfriend called 911 to report the incident.

And then?

Apparently the Atlanta police didn't make much of it. There's no indication that they made any connection to the courthouse murders. This incident happens within walking distance of a rapid rail station. Police could logically believe that a man, on foot, who accosts a resident near a rapid rail station might have arrived on a train from downtown. No special attention is paid to this report.

What does Nichols do next?

It would seem that he wandered around the Lenox Road area for a while until he came upon off-duty U.S. Customs Agent David Wilhelm. Wilhelm was working on a home he was building in the area. Nichols killed him and stole his truck.

When did police discover that Wilhelm had been killed?

A carpenter showed up at the house at 6:30 a.m., found the body and called the cops.

Where was Nichols at that point?

He had driven to Duluth, North of Atlanta, where, at two in the morning, he encountered Ashley Smith getting out of her car at an apartment complex. He forced her into her apartment. Ashley Smith, as it turns out, is a rather remarkable 26-year-old. Here's your link to read the remarkable story of what happened in Smith's apartment (http://wsbradio.com/news/031405nicholshostage3a.html). In short, after almost eight hours he lets her go. As she is leaving the apartment Nichols hands Smith $40 he has in his pocket, telling her that he wouldn't be needing the money. He also asks here if there is anything he can do around the apartment, like hanging pictures or curtains, while she's gone. Smith leaves, calls 911, the SWAT team arrives, and Nichols surrenders.

Is there a reward for information leading to Nichol's arrest and conviction?

About $60,000, last I heard.

Who will get it?

Should it be anyone other than Ashley Smith? I don't think so.

[KWhit]

I feel like I'm a warrior. The people of my color have gone through a lot.
Ah. So there it is.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

From Neal Nuze this morning. Priceless...


The chick guarding Nichols was 51?????

Gosh, can't imagine how he managed to overpower her.

[Eaglesfan27]

The chick guarding Nichols was 51?????

Gosh, can't imagine how he managed to overpower her.
And she was about 5'. He is about 6 feet 1 inch.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

And she was about 5'. He is about 6 feet 1 inch.
That's like me (5'2") trying to subdue Arlie (he's 6'4").

Anyone else laughing at that?

[KevinNU7]

- TV movie in 3 months, books start rolling in six. Have to wait a year or more for any that try to accurately get to the root of what happened.
Dateline special during May Sweeps

[gstelmack]

That's like me (5'2") trying to subdue Arlie (he's 6'4").

Anyone else laughing at that?
On this board, you think people are LAUGHING at the thought of you wrestling Arlie? You don't know these guys very well http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

My four thoughts on the Atlanta situation:

- It's been brought up in at least one article that extra security for this trial was specifically requested after they found the shanks on this guy the day before. One 5' 51-year-old-grandmother does not sound like extra security. I can understand typical complacency, but an event had already occurred that should have snapped them out of complacency on this one guy in particular.

- Can you see the lawsuits rolling in now that it turns out people weren't even watching the security cameras? Jobs will be lost and money made off the city over that one alone.

- Condolences to all involved. Several lives lost that had nothing to do with botching security at the courthouse. A true tragedy.

- TV movie in 3 months, books start rolling in six. Have to wait a year or more for any that try to accurately get to the root of what happened.

[hhiipp]

Originally Posted by Brian Nichols
I feel like I'm a warrior. The people of my color have gone through a lot.

Isn't this almost the same as the Barry Bonds quote from a few weeks ago?

[HomerJSimpson]

- TV movie in 3 months, books start rolling in six. Have to wait a year or more for any that try to accurately get to the root of what happened.


It will not take that long. Former Fulton Sherriff Jackie Barrett spent more time stealing money from the county (in the millions) than running her department, and when she was removed left it in a complete mess. The most apparent problem was the jail, and it has taken a lot of time, effort and attention to get that in function order. Meanwhile, with the focus of the leadership on the jail and getting its manpower up to snuff, security at the courthouse has been falling into ruin. Unfortunately, it took this to get anyones attention. I have a feeling now there is going to be a lot of over-hauling done on security procedures at the courthouse.

[EagleFan]

There goes FBCB2...

[EagleFan]

dola: Sorry, couldn't reisist with the coincidence (I keep picturing the Seinfeld episode "It's not him!!!")


I certainly hope that they begin securing people much better in the future. How did it seem like a good idea to have a 51 year old lady watching this guy?

[Ben E Lou]

Who was in charge of the early search? Well, it sounds like no one, really...

Who was in charge of search?
Atlanta police took over 1 hour after shootings
Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin acknowledged Wednesday that city police did not take control of the manhunt for Brian G. Nichols until about an hour after the start of the shooting spree at the Fulton County Courthouse that left a judge and two others dead.

In the aftermath of the rampage, law enforcement officials have not made clear which agency was in charge of the troubled and fruitless manhunt.

<!--endclickprintinclude--><table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="175"><tbody><tr><td>http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/09/99/45/image_1445999.jpg (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/0305/NICHOLS_COURT_6.html)


(ENLARGE) (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/0305/NICHOLS_COURT_6.html)
</td></tr><tr><td class="caption">Brian G. Nichols surrendered 26 hours after the courthouse shootings.
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td><td width="5">http://www.ajc.com/shared-local/images/1pix_trans.gif</td></tr></tbody></table><!--startclickprintinclude--> Franklin responded about the city's role late Wednesday with a written statement that Franklin's staff took seven hours to draft.

"APD assumed the lead role in the investigation upon arrival at the Fulton County Courthouse at approximately 10:00 a.m.," the mayor's office said in a statement issued after 11 p.m.

The shooting began at about 9 a.m. Friday. The first carjacking attributed to Nichols outside the courthouse took place at 9:05 a.m., police said.

Franklin's statement went on to say that Atlanta police took the lead role after they were notified by phone "that the alleged perpetrator Brian Nichols had eluded sheriff's deputies after fatally wounding three victims and assaulting another."

Nichols then went on a carjacking spree, taking five vehicles during a flight from the courthouse to parking garages near Centennial Olympic Park. Nichols allegedly assaulted Atlanta Journal-Constitution reporter Don O'Briant at 9:20 a.m. while taking his green Honda.

Police warned the public throughout the day Friday to watch out for the Honda, broadcasting its description and tag number. But the car was found in the same garage later that night, and police later said Nichols had slipped out of the garage on foot and taken MARTA to Buckhead.

It's unclear when Nichols boarded the train, but a Journal-Constitution employee says she saw a man who looked like him walking down Marietta Street toward the Five Points MARTA station between 9:30 a.m. and 10 a.m.

Had Nichols been arrested that morning, U.S. Customs agent David Wilhelm might still be alive. Authorities said Nichols killed him in Buckhead Friday night. Nichols surrendered to Gwinnett County police Saturday morning.

Although police allowed Nichols to leave the downtown area, Atlanta officials have withheld criticism all week.

"I think APD did an incredible job, as did all law enforcement, and I'm greatly relieved by the outcome," Franklin said Monday.

Even so, she said it was too soon to begin assessing the police department's performance. "Until there is an evaluation and debriefing of the action, I think it's premature to assess what happened and what didn't happen," she said.

Asked how much time she would give Police Chief Richard Pennington to evaluate the police response, Franklin said, "as much time as he needs." She quickly added: "This is a 34-year veteran, an experienced chief."

The statement, issued by Franklin's deputy chief of staff, Sandra Walker, quotes the mayor as saying: "At this point, there is nothing more important than ensuring that we develop a solid, factually accurate case. It is imperative that we provide the district attorney the information needed to effectively and fairly prosecute the case. In terms of the actions of law enforcement agencies, Chief Pennington and his team will focus their attention on who did what, when they did it, how they did it, and why they did it at the appropriate time."

[HomerJSimpson]

Who was in charge of the early search? Well, it sounds like no one, really...


I would say that again is a failure of the Sherriff's department. They would be in charge of the courthouse, and it would be up to them to ask for immediate help from the Atlanta Police (who would have the manpower to actually hunt for the killer).

[Ben E Lou]

Unfathomably, this story just keeps getting worse. From this morning's AJC...

Nichols' mother sent warning

E-mail suggested he might turn violent at rape trial

Weeks before the Fulton County Courthouse shootings, sheriff's officials received an e-mailed message from the mother of alleged killer Brian Nichols expressing concern that her son could become violent in court if he was convicted of a rape charge, officials said Wednesday.

Chief Deputy Michael Cooke said his office received word of the message during Nichols' first rape trial, which ended in a mistrial Feb. 28. Nichols is accused of erupting during his second trial on the same charges on March 11 and launching a killing spree that left four dead.

<!--endclickprintinclude--><!--startclickprintinclude--> Nichols' mother, Claritha Nichols, wrote that she was worried that "if the verdict did not go his [Nichols'] way, he would try to act out in court and take someone's weapon," Cooke said.

Cooke said the Sheriff's Department took the warning seriously.

"We were fully expecting that he was going to react violently to the verdict, if there was a verdict," Cooke said. "We were prepared to have staff available [in the courtroom], which we typically do during any high-profile trial or trial where there is any indication that there is going to be any type of acting out."

The e-mail wasn't the first warning the Sheriff's Department received about Nichols. Two days before the shootings, deputies taking Nichols to court found door hinges modified into homemade knives and hidden in his shoes. Nichols' former cellmate also has said that he filed with jail officials two written reports expressing concerns about Nichols' behavior.

Nevertheless, Nichols was left alone with a 51-year-old female deputy, whom he overpowered on his way to the courtroom during his second trial. He is accused of fatally shooting a judge, a court reporter and a deputy he encountered as he fled. He also is accused of killing a U.S. customs agent after escaping from downtown Atlanta.

Claritha Nichols, who is working as a consultant in Africa, sent her warning in an e-mail to the pastor of an Atlanta area church. Cooke said he didn't know the name of the pastor or the church.

It is unclear what led Nichols' mother to send the message, but a transcript of the first trial shows that she had received troubling e-mails last summer from the woman he is accused of raping. The woman's e-mails suggested that Nichols could turn violent.

The pastor passed the message to Sgt. Jerome Dowdell, a member of his congregation who works for the Sheriff's Department. Dowdell then provided the information to a detention officer, Cooke said. It was relayed to three more members of the sheriff's staff, including the deputy assigned to Judge Rowland Barnes' courtroom, Grantley White.

"He [Dowdell] did what was logical," Cooke said. "He related [the warning] to the court staff."

Dowdell refused to comment Wednesday.

Barry Hazen, Nichols' lawyer during the rape trials, said he was never told of the mother's warning. "I'm flabbergasted," Hazen said Wednesday. "If they [sheriff's officials] knew about some kind of explosive behavior and did nothing about it, that makes me even angrier. We rely on them for our protection. They have a duty to us to do something about it."

Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard said he also was troubled to learn about the warning for the first time Wednesday — a month after the warning was given to deputies. He said he immediately called Fulton Sheriff Myron Freeman.

"He told the sheriff he expected a full and complete accounting of what the concern was and, further, why we were not informed at the time," said Erik Friedly, Howard's spokesman. "The sheriff has indicated he will give him these answers in a report next week."

Because of these concerns, the Sheriff's Department assigned additional security for Nichols trial, but the shooting took place before the scheduled trial starting time that day, before additional deputies reached the courtroom.

Nichols is being held in the Fulton County Jail. He is expected to be indicted in the murder of Barnes, who presided over both his rape trials. Court reporter Julie Brandau and sheriff's Sgt. Hoyt Teasley also were shot dead. U.S. customs agent David Wilhelm was killed hours later.

Doris Downs, the chief judge of Fulton County Superior Court, said Wednesday that the shootings have shaken everyone's confidence in courthouse security.

"I think you can say we were all too comfortable and casual," she said. "I am confident security has improved. I am certain it will reach a level we are comfortable with."

Freeman has ordered an internal investigation into possible security breakdowns and procedures that might have allowed the shootings. His report is expected by the middle of next week.

At the same time, Fulton judges will select, possibly as soon as Friday, a security expert from the three finalists of seven who submitted bids to do a security assessment of the courthouse. Downs said she did not know how long it would take to complete.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just in case anybody might be wondering how such a large county ended up with such an apparent nitwit as Sheriff ...

http://www.ourgeorgiahistory.com/chronpop/224
Basically, the originally elected sheriff was murdered in a conspiracy led by the man he defeated.

So, the second choice gets elected to fill the vacancy
http://www.ajc.com/monday/content/epaper/editions/monday/news_24537451f00a012f10a2.html

Talk to some "regular people" (i.e. non-politicians) who knew Freeman during his GSP career & you get a pretty good understanding of how he got where he is today. Let's just say they aren't exactly complimentary of his law enforcement (or mental) capabilities. But he's a heck of an ass-kisser from what I gather.

Certainly, no guarantees that Derwin Brown would have been any better ... but I bet I'm not the only person who has wondered what-might-have-been in the past couple of weeks.

[CraigSca]

Good grief - is Atlanta the Dodge City of the 21st century? Should we call the National Guard in?

[digamma]

Just in case anybody might be wondering how such a large county ended up with such an apparent nitwit as Sheriff ...

http://www.ourgeorgiahistory.com/chronpop/224
Basically, the originally elected sheriff was murdered in a conspiracy led by the man he defeated.

So, the second choice gets elected to fill the vacancy
http://www.ajc.com/monday/content/epaper/editions/monday/news_24537451f00a012f10a2.html

Talk to some "regular people" (i.e. non-politicians) who knew Freeman during his GSP career & you get a pretty good understanding of how he got where he is today. Let's just say they aren't exactly complimentary of his law enforcement (or mental) capabilities. But he's a heck of an ass-kisser from what I gather.

Certainly, no guarantees that Derwin Brown would have been any better ... but I bet I'm not the only person who has wondered what-might-have-been in the past couple of weeks.
Derwin Brown was to be sheriff in DeKalb County. I think the second article is about Fulton County, where the courthouse shootings took place.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Derwin Brown was to be sheriff in DeKalb County. I think the second article is about Fulton County, where the courthouse shootings took place.

I think my brain just cross-wired. Never sleep too little, work, and throw a quick post up all in close proxmity to each other.

Thx for the straightening, I was just brain cramped I guess.

[flere-imsaho]

Good grief - is Atlanta the Dodge City of the 21st century? Should we call the National Guard in?

We can't - they're all in Iraq.

[CraigSca]

You're welcome for the fat pitch, Flere. :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/12603776.htm

ATLANTA - Months after a shooting rampage left three dead at the Fulton County Courthouse, exasperated judges said that security cameras still haven't been plugged in and faulty doors have yet to be replaced.

A task force charged with making security recommendations after the shooting also said Friday that the number of sworn officers assigned to the courthouse must be increased by roughly a third to secure the downtown Atlanta building.

The findings prompted outcry from members of the panel angry at the county's cumbersome bureaucracy, which has been slow to react to the March 11 shootings despite repeated urgings from the task force.

"A shooting of a judge - how more squeaky of a wheel can there be?" said Fulton County State Court Judge Penny Brown Reynolds, a member of the panel.

"Here we are months later and we're talking about the same things," she said. "We can't get a definite answer as to whether cameras are working or whether they received our request. There's a breakdown somewhere."

At a July meeting, panel member Richard Pennington, the Atlanta Police Chief, said dozens of work orders to repair malfunctioning security cameras, busted parking garage gates and faulty doors were ignored. Courthouse officials made 34 requests to repair malfunctioning alarms, for instance, but only 12 requests were acknowledged.

Pennington said maintenance workers still haven't responded to the panel's requests for an explanation. At the same time, the sheriff's department has repeatedly failed to attend weekly meetings with the agency that oversees the repairs. Four of the last six meetings scheduled between the two departments have been canceled by the sheriff's department, said Superior Court Judge T. Jackson Bedford, a member of the panel.

"A fire needs to be lit under somebody," Bedford said.

Even so, DeKalb County Sheriff Thomas Brown, a member of the panel, recommended giving Fulton County Sheriff Myron Freeman more authority to directly hire sheriff's staffers, rather than go through the county's personnel department.

A panel report recommended that 314 sworn officers should be assigned to the courthouse - a significant increase from the 200 to 235 officers now working in the building. Part of the problem, Brown said, is that sheriff's officials must wade through daunting red tape to fill vacancies.

"There is no way to easily fill the positions. That's the way the bureaucracy was designed," Brown said with a sigh.

Ultimately, the task force's recommendations will be in the hands of Freeman, who was besieged by calls for his resignation after the deadly shootings.

Brian Nichols, who was on trial on a rape charge, is accused of shooting Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes and court reporter Julie Ann Brandau in the courthouse and sheriff's Sgt. Hoyt Teasley outside the courthouse. A fourth victim, federal agent David Wilhelm, was killed at his home later in the day.

[CraigSca]

Pennington said maintenance workers still haven't responded to the panel's requests for an explanation. At the same time, the sheriff's department has repeatedly failed to attend weekly meetings with the agency that oversees the repairs. Four of the last six meetings scheduled between the two departments have been canceled by the sheriff's department, said Superior Court Judge T. Jackson Bedford, a member of the panel.
And people wonder why this crap happens...

Anyone else think it's time for someone in Atlanta to clean house? Where's the outrage? For people in Atlanta - are the news networks covering this?

[JonInMiddleGA]

And people wonder why this crap happens...

Anyone else think it's time for someone in Atlanta to clean house? Where's the outrage? For people in Atlanta - are the news networks covering this?

I feel like it's pretty much an afterthought in a lot of ways. This got less play in the AJC for example, than an addition to the new downtown aquarium.

Here's a look at the headlines, you can see where this ranked.

MORE HEADLINES

• Ophelia a hurricane again | Path | • Perdue signs gas bills
• Panel: Security still lax at courthouse | • Shopper takes on Wal-Mart
• Dog shot with arrow; teen charged | • Sculpture dedicated to Lewis

This reminds me of a great story that I read a few years ago, that started with a parable frequently used by a local political analyst to describe Atlanta city government. (if anybody can find this, I'd be indebted, I've lost my link to the actual quote). I'll have to paraphrase.

A young man of about 18 goes to a fortune teller & asks about his future.
She peers into her crystal ball and gravely tells him that his 20's were sure to be full of misery & woe, lost jobs, lost love, poor health. And that his 30's were even worse, with personal & financial ruin time & again, he would find himself suffering in complete misery. Desparate for some glimmer of hope, he asks "What about in my 40's". She replies "Eh, it won't be as bad. By then, you'll be used to it".

That pretty much sums up the situation with a lot of county government around Atlanta. It's been so bad for so long, people don't seem to notice as much as you might think, basically they've gotten used to it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/0905/26nichols.html

Judges maintain little work done on courthouse security

By RHONDA COOK, BETH WARREN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/26/05

Fulton County Superior Court Judge T. Jackson Bedford Jr. walked from a first-floor public hallway at the downtown county courthouse into a restricted area leading to his colleagues' offices.

After passing a desk where an unarmed civilian security officer sat, Bedford and a visitor approached Courtroom 1C from the back. The door was unlocked.

"Look at the first floor," the frustrated judge said as he opened the door and looked over his shoulders to the area he had just passed. "It's wide open."

It was through a similar unlocked door on March 11 that authorities say Brian Nichols entered Judge Rowland Barnes' courtroom and fatally shot him and his court reporter, Julie Ann Brandau.

Since that time Bedford and others, including a security commission formed by Sheriff Myron Freeman, say little has changed to make the courthouse safe.

But Sheriff's Maj. Antonio Johnson, who has been in charge of courthouse security since last month, said there have been improvements in security in the six months since the killings, which included the deaths of a deputy sheriff and later a U.S. Customs agent.

"They [judges] have a right to have concerns, and I'm trying to make sure their concerns are not overlooked," Johnson said. "I'm going to do everything I can" to make the building secure.

Progress claimed

Bedford said judges have been lobbying the Sheriff's Department and county for more than a year to install a locked door leading to the judges' offices, where magistrates and one Superior Court judge work.

"We've been told that's in the works," Bedford said.

Johnson and county officials say Fulton is spending $750,000 to improve security, and much is in the works, including the installation of cameras and more secure doors, and retraining of deputies.

According to Johnson, courtrooms on each floor have been wired to provide electricity to surveillance cameras that are being installed, although only cameras on the first floor are working. Camera connections remain to be completed in 12 courtrooms.

The cameras would transmit images to a larger control room, which would replace the current station. Deputies also will have larger monitors to watch courthouse activity.

Johnson said 25 of the 63 doors to inmate cells in the courthouse have been retrofitted with trap doors so deputies can handcuff inmates without coming in contact with them. A deputy was removing Nichols' handcuffs when he allegedly overpowered her, got her gun and began his shooting spree.

Johnson said three steel doors are removed each day and sent out to have slots cut into them. He said work on all of the doors should be completed in October.

He said Bedford's concerns about open areas leading to some first-floor judges' chambers will be addressed as soon as the Atlanta Fire Department approves adding a wall and locked door to an area that is now a fire escape route.

X-ray machines at the courthouse's two main entrances have been replaced with new technology and duress buttons for judges and court staff have been "revamped . . . and are all operational," Johnson said. Exit doors leading from the courthouse on the Pryor Street side of the judicial complex have been reinforced.

Freeman said he routinely will rotate deputies from posts throughout the courthouse to keep them from becoming complacent. He was referring to concerns that deputies were following orders from judges instead of their superiors.

"When I hear a judge tell me 'my deputy' that tells me I have a problem," Freeman said. "The Secret Service always rotates staff . . . so you don't get so familiar, so you don't get involved. You've got to be able to do your job and do it effectively and efficiently. Sometimes you can't do your job well if you're too emotionally involved."

State Court Judge Henry Newkirk, a member of Freeman's task force, said he has noticed increased security in the parking area — a new fence has been installed for judges — and inside the courthouse.

"I feel very safe coming in the courthouse," Newkirk said. "I think there's a very good presence of deputy sheriffs within the courthouse. There's always room for improvement, and I hope things continue to progress."Infighting blamed

Cherokee County Sheriff Roger Garrison, who serves on the subcommittee that reviewed three previous security audits of courtroom security as well as requests for repairs, said he's not sure who is right.

"I would have to defer to the judges on the commission and the people who work inside the Fulton County Courthouse day in and day out," Garrison said. "They are the ones telling us, 'No, these things are not done.' "

Atlanta police Chief Richard Pennington, who heads the task force's subcommittee assigned to building security and repairs, has said repeatedly that courthouse safety has been compromised by bureaucratic power struggles and communication problems between the judges, the Sheriff's Department and the county's General Services Department, which maintains the building and is responsible for seeing that repairs are done.

But Friday, a spokeswoman for Pennington said the chief was briefed several days ago on the status of work and was told most of the problems had been fixed.

Johnson, who replaced Maj. Orlando Whitehead as head of security after Freeman forced Whitehead to retire, contended the Sheriff's Department would make sure improvements are made.

"We're going to work with everybody," Johnson said. "My job is to get the job done. Unfortunately, some things take a while."

Courtroom 1C, which Judge Bedford found unlocked, is the same courtroom where Nichols' pretrial hearings are held. He has pleaded not guilty to charges he murdered Barnes, Brandau, Deputy Hoyt Teasley and customs agent David Wilhelm. He could be sentenced to die if he is convicted of any of the four killings.

For Bedford, who lost a close friend in the courthouse shootings, the slow delay in improvements is worrisome.

"I just have an overwhelming sense of sadness," Bedford said Friday as he pointed to a picture of Barnes on his desk. "We're just trying to prevent it from happening again."

[Ben E Lou]

Seems that Saint Ashley had a little ice in her apartment that fateful night. The big speculation at the UGA boards back then was "Did he hit it?" Hmmmmm.....

Ashley Smith frank about her flaws in new book
She gave Brian Nichols meth to put alleged killer at ease

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/27/05 Ashley Smith, the woman held hostage for hours after the March 11 Fulton County Courthouse shootings, reveals in a book released today that she gave alleged gunman Brian Nichols drugs on the night he held her captive.

Smith, 27, was thrust into a national media spotlight after talking her way out of Nichols' captivity and then calling police. In "Unlikely Angel: The Untold Story of the Atlanta Hostage Hero," Smith shares details of her seven-hour ordeal as a hostage in her Duluth apartment, and for the first time tells of giving Nichols drugs.

<!--endtext--><!--endclickprintinclude--><table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="175"><tbody><tr><td>http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/05/03/45/image_1845035.jpg (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/living/0905/bkashley.html)
(ENLARGE) (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/living/0905/bkashley.html)
</td></tr><tr><td class="caption">
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Ashley Smith frank about her flaws in new book (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/living/0905/27ashley.html?imw=Y)
Teen flees police; chase ends in fatal crash (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/0905/27fatalcrash.html?imw=Y)
NFL admits giving Patriots extra 52 seconds (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/0905/27clockerror.html?imw=Y)
Legislator claims he has immunity from DUI charge (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/0905/27graves.html?imw=Y)
Defeat keeps magic number at 2 (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/0905/27braves.html?imw=Y)


<!-- END Clickability "Most Popular" links --> </td></tr><tr><td><table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="170"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center" bgcolor="#cccccc" width="170"><table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0" width="168"> <tbody><tr> <td width="148">http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/08/26/62/image_262268.gifEMAIL THIS (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/living/0905/27ashley.html#)
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</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td><td width="5">http://www.ajc.com/shared-local/images/1pix_trans.gif</td></tr></tbody></table><!--startclickprintinclude--><!--begintext--> Nichols asked her for marijuana, she writes, but she had only a small amount of crystal methamphetamine. She thought offering him the drug might curry favor, but she says she refused to take the drug with him.

"I was not going to die tonight and stand before God, having done a bunch of ice up my nose," she writes.

Today, Smith will talk to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution about her book, her drug battles and her life since her hostage ordeal. A full interview will run in Wednesday's Living section.

Smith's book, the 272-page "Unlikely Angel" (co-written with Stacy Mattingly), goes on sale today. Publisher William Morrow reports a first printing of 400,000 copies, an ambitious number for a memoir by anyone who is not a celebrity or a national politician.

Smith is scheduled to appear on Oprah Winfrey's talk show Wednesday and then will begin a publicity tour that will bring her to Atlanta on Oct. 10, for a book signing at Chapter 11 bookstore at Peachtree Battle Shopping Center.

Here are a few excerpts from "Unlikely Angel":

• On Brian Nichols:

"He was bare-chested underneath his blazer. His pecs were rippling in between the black lapels; and seeing where the jacket seams hit his shoulders, I could tell just how broad those shoulders really were. I know I'm in good shape, but man, if this guy comes at me, I'll never have a chance to fight him off."

• On what she said to Nichols:

"Nobody else needs to get hurt, dude. And if you don't turn yourself in, somebody else will get hurt. You'll keep going and you'll kill more people and you'll probably die too."

• On what Nichols said to her:

"You know, Ashley, I wish I would've met you at a different time and under different circumstances. We could've been friends."

• On her battle with drugs:

"I haven't touched drugs since walking out of my apartment on March 12. . . . . Initially I did not volunteer the information about the drugs [that she gave Nichols]. . . . I was afraid. Later I came forward and shared the details about the drugs with the appropriate authorities, but I regret not having done so at the very beginning. I remember what Jesus said: The truth will set you free. That's how I want to live my life — I want to be an honest person and experience the freedom that goes with it."

• On her faith:

"Instead of running away from God's voice, now I seek it and try to learn from his words. . . . I still pray all the time for the friends I knew in the drug scene. . . . I pray that what has happened in my life will impact them in some way. I want them to know that God loves them no matter what they've done."

[oliegirl]

• On Brian Nichols:

"He was bare-chested underneath his blazer. His pecs were rippling in between the black lapels; and seeing where the jacket seams hit his shoulders, I could tell just how broad those shoulders really were. I know I'm in good shape, but man, if this guy comes at me, I'll never have a chance to fight him off."


I think I am going to puke...were they trying to write an account of what happened, or a Fabio-esque bodice ripper???? Blech!

[Ben E Lou]

I think I am going to puke...were they trying to write an account of what happened, or a Fabio-esque bodice ripper???? Blech!That quote in particular was fodder for the little something in my gut that thought from early on, "She did him."

[oliegirl]

That quote in particular was fodder for the little something in my gut that thought from early on, "She did him."


Ewwww! I had never even thought of that, but now I can't get the visual out of my mind!!!!! Thanks a lot! :mad:

[VPI97]

That quote in particular was fodder for the little something in my gut that thought from early on, "She did him."I wouldn't doubt it if she did...the guy was a natural charmer. Even in that kind of circumstance, I could see where someone would be taken by him.

[Ben E Lou]

Ewwww! I had never even thought of thatHeh. Based on her comments about their level of trust and interaction, I wondered about it from the start, and it was the subject of a lot of debate for several days at one UGA board.

[HomerJSimpson]

This also explain why she didn't have custody of the kid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Heh. Based on her comments about their level of trust and interaction, I wondered about it from the start, and it was the subject of a lot of debate for several days at one UGA board.

It was also the subject of quite a bit of speculation here at my house. It just seemed so obvious.

[moriarty]

Don't you think if she did ride him she'd include it in her book to maximize sales and capitalize on her 5 minutes of fame? I mean crystal meth isn't cheap and she has to fund her habit ... oh, sure she's "clean" now.

[Ben E Lou]

Don't you think if she did ride him she'd include it in her book to maximize sales and capitalize on her 5 minutes of fame? I mean crystal meth isn't cheap and she has to fund her habit ... oh, sure she's "clean" now.If she were to admit it, wouldn't that set herself up for a charge of aidin' and abettin'? Plus, she's pretty, uh, white-trashy. If it happened, I'd say that there's a better than even chance that she wouldn't want her friends and family to know.

[moriarty]

If she were to admit it, wouldn't that set herself up for a charge of aidin' and abettin'? Plus, she's pretty, uh, white-trashy. If it happened, I'd say that there's a better than even chance that she wouldn't want her friends and family to know.

She could claim "stockholm syndrome".

[Ben E Lou]

She could claim "stockholm syndrome".Good point. Or, she could claim that she was just trying to get him to fall asleep afterward. :p

[JeeberD]

If she were to admit it, wouldn't that set herself up for a charge of aidin' and abettin'?

How would nailing him be aiding and abetting? It's no different than providing him with drugs, is it?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I just want to know what the over/under line is on how long it'll be before she's arrested for either a drug charge or something connected to another bad-choice boyfriend.

[NoMyths]

Of course, he could have just raped her.

[HomerJSimpson]

How would nailing him be aiding and abetting? It's no different than providing him with drugs, is it?


Agreed. I actually would think providing him with drugs would be worse legally. Though I do agree with Ben on the thought she might just didn't want to face her family if she admitted to sex.

[Ben E Lou]

How would nailing him be aiding and abetting? It's no different than providing him with drugs, is it?I know nothing about how the law would work in this case. I was merely wondering if she might be worried that if she admitted that she gave him drugs, had sex with him and fed him all without being directly asked or forced, she might be seen as an ally of his. {shrug}


My suspicions are further stoked by the drug revelation specifically because I'm wondering why she didn't just lie to him. This conversation is just a little hard to imagine:

Admitted Mass Murderer: "You got any reefer?"

Unwilling, Fearful Captive: "No, but I've got some ice. You want that?"

She doesn't come across as the sharpest knife in the drawer by any means, but I'm having a hard time fathoming how she thought that geting him high would help make her more safe. :confused:

[HomerJSimpson]

I know nothing about how the law would work in this case. I was merely wondering if she might be worried that if she admitted that she gave him drugs, had sex with him and fed him all without being directly asked or forced, she might be seen as an ally of his. {shrug}


My suspicions are further stoked by the drug revelation specifically because I'm wondering why she didn't just lie to him. This conversation is just a little hard to imagine:

Admitted Mass Murderer: "You got any reefer?"

Unwilling, Fearful Captive: "No, but I've got some ice. You want that?"

She doesn't come across as the sharpest knife in the drawer by any means, but I'm having a hard time fathoming how she thought that geting him high would help make her more safe. :confused:


Especially on meth. It is not a "calming" drug.

[Chas in Cinti]

I could turn her around, I could make her a better person... oh wait...

Never mind guys, got that "feminine side" under control... Won't be getting in touch with it again, anytime soon...

But she is hot in a trashy sort or way. Why couldn't she just do Penthouse like every other not-so-famous, not-so-hot personality?

-Chas

[ISiddiqui]

Hey baby... have any fugitive in you?

[digamma]

Has she admitted to being a stripper yet?

That was my first thought last spring when she said she "got home from work" about 2 AM.

[JeeberD]

Yup, no one but strippers work late nights... :rolleyes:

[colt45]

what's the over/under on the book proceeds going to a brand new meth lab named "angel dust" in atlanta?

[digamma]

Yup, no one but strippers work late nights... :rolleyes: Perhaps worded incorrectly, but spare me the rolly eyes.

Point is there was a "there's something not quite right about this one vibe."

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0905/28barnessuit.html

Attorneys representing the widow of a judge fatally gunned down in his courtroom sent written notice today to county officials that a wrongful death lawsuit will be filed soon.

The notice, sent to the Fulton County manager, commission chair and Sheriff Myron Freeman, warns that the suit will single out the sheriff's employees who violated departmental policies and failed to protect Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes and others.
...
When he was killed, Barnes was overseeing a civil case without an armed deputy in the courtroom — something the Barnes' family attorneys says is a violation of Georgia law.

The notice names Capt. Chelisa Lee, an 18-year sheriff's department veteran who failed to pass along information about the discovery of metal in Nichols' shoes and failed to assign additional security to Nichols. Investigators say Lee lied to cover up for her inaction. She was one of several employees fired or forced to retire in August.

Lee, who is appealing her firing, had sent a subordinate to get her breakfast at a time when the subordinate was supposed to be monitoring security cameras around the courthouse. Neither security specialist Alphonzo Wright nor deputy Paul Tamer were at their posts in the video control room when Deputy Cynthia Hall, who was escorting Nichols, was overpowered, investigators said. The investigators also found that the video monitoring equipment had not been activated for that day.

Wright and Tamer are also named in the notice as targets of the upcoming lawsuit. So is Maj. Orlando Whitehead, who was in command of courthouse security. Whitehead, a 17-year department veteran, retired in August in lieu of being fired.

"Another of the most culpable officers is Lt. Gary Reid," the notice of an expected suit claims. "As a direct result of Reid's abuse of sick leave, there was a critical under-staffing in the area immediately surrounding Judge Barnes' office and courtroom."

Reid, an 18-year sheriff's department veteran, received a 20-day suspension and no longer works at the courthouse. He had no comment on the allegations against him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not directly related to the courthouse shooting, but close enough that the hits just keep on coming ...

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/12885927.htm
Georgia deputy arrested in Alabama on cocaine charge
MOBILE, Ala. - A Fulton County, Ga., sheriff's lieutenant who works as a supervisor at the county jail has been arrested and charged in Alabama with trafficking cocaine, authorities said Wednesday.

Dwayne Turner, 40, of Jonesboro, Ga., was arrested by FBI agents and Mobile County sheriff's deputies on Tuesday, FBI special agent in charge Debra K. Mack said in a statement.

Turner, who was suspended from the sheriff's department 15 months ago for authorizing a rap video in the jail, was arrested in the parking lot of a restaurant near the intersection of Interstate 85 and East Avenue in Montgomery.

A criminal complaint against Turner was filed Oct. 5 before U.S. Magistrate Judge William E. Cassady in Mobile, charging Turner with conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine.

The complaint resulted from a joint probe by the Mobile County sheriff's office and the FBI in Mobile, the statement said.

If convicted, Turner could be sentenced to a maximum 40 years in prison and a $2 million fine.

Sgt. Nikita Hightower, a spokeswoman for Fulton County Sheriff Myron Freeman, said the drug case was unrelated to the jail. Hightower said an internal investigation would be launched and that Turner, an employee since 1991, probably would be suspended indefinitely once all the information was received from the FBI.

She said the department first learned of the investigation against Turner when he was arrested.

According to the FBI affidavit, a man arrested in April with about a half-pound of cocaine identified Turner as a supplier of both cocaine and marijuana, which the informant said he sold in the Mobile area.

The informant, whose name was blacked out in a copy of the affidavit obtained by The Associated Press, arranged a meeting with Turner at a Montgomery restaurant on Oct. 4. There, the informant purchased a Zip-Loc plastic bag of about 4 ounces of cocaine for $3,000, the affidavit indicated.

In the summer of 2004, former Fulton County Sheriff Jackie Barrett suspended Turner and three other deputies for their roles in allowing rapper Clifford Harris, known as T.I., to use a maximum security cell, guards and inmates as props for a video.

Barrett at first fired Turner, but Hightower said the termination was reduced to a suspension.

[Logan]

I love TI.