ManYoo whines about Champions League

[SirFozzie]

"It's not fair! We're bigger and have more money then they do.. who cares how we finish in the group stage..." A ManYooWhineyBitch to English Translation.

LONDON, March 22 (Reuters) - Manchester United would like the format of the Champions League changed to help more big name clubs survive into the last eight.

United were knocked out in this month's first knockout round by AC Milan and chief executive David Gill on Tuesday put forward the idea of a seeding system for the last 16.

Gill said there would be discussions between clubs and UEFA, European soccer's governing body, to see whether changes were necessary although he did not expect any for the next two years.

"It's not good for the big clubs, not good for TV and sponsors if no Spanish club is in the quarter-finals," Gill said after unveiling sharply lower interim profits at United.

This season, nine times winners Real Madrid, Barcelona, United and English champions Arsenal have failed to reach the quarter-finals.

Gill said he talked with AC Milan officials before their recent tie and they had discussed a seeding system after the group stage whereby the team seeded top - based on past performance - play the 16th seed, the second the 15th and so on.

UEFA scrapped the second group stage ahead of the 2003/4 season, replacing it with a knockout round before the quarter-finals.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Hmm, I'd think the most logical seeding system would be based on group round performance, and I'm not sure how much help that would be for the clubs that were knocked out.

[condors]

bah, i am a Offical Manchester United Supporter(i actually get a monthly fee taken out of my bank account and get spammed with Sir Alex read audio clips and player interviews and stuff) and i don't like that. I like it when "underdogs" are getting a chance to shine on the world stage.

[dubb93]

Hmm, I'd think the most logical seeding system would be based on group round performance, and I'm not sure how much help that would be for the clubs that were knocked out.

I'm no soccer fan but I can't see seeding teams on past performances, whatever that means. I'm with you though, whatever happened in the group round would be a good way to go.

[3ric]

Well boo hoo for you, Mr. Gill! :p

[KevinNU7]

They just do a "random" draw now right?

[moriarty]

I sort of, just a little bit, maybe ... see their point in terms of seeding. It sucks to see the two best teams play in the first knockout round. However, to be Champions of Europe you have to be willing to take on and beat all contendors ...regardless of what round it is. And I'm all for "smaller" teams getting increased exposure and visibility.

And just because I'm a Liverpool supporter ... Screw Man-Peew.

[SunDancer]

I'm no soccer fan but I can't see seeding teams on past performances, whatever that means. I'm with you though, whatever happened in the group round would be a good way to go.


I think he might mean the "quarterfinals" seeding based on performance in the group stages. The "draws" are semi-random. They do have rules in place that limits what teams can play each other (teams from the same country cannot be drawn against each other, and I believe that "group" winners cannot be match against each other).

Honestly, Manchester United should go out and play, and stop whinning.

[SirFozzie]

They mean teams should be seeded based on their PAST HISTORY (IE, if you won the competition as many times as ManYoo has, or as Real Madrid has, you should be seeded automatically and play weaker opposition..for example, it'd be like UCLA claiming that they should be a 1 seed because they won the NCAA Basketball tournament a ton of times)

[Desnudo]

I think he might mean the "quarterfinals" seeding based on performance in the group stages. The "draws" are semi-random. They do have rules in place that limits what teams can play each other (teams from the same country cannot be drawn against each other, and I believe that "group" winners cannot be match against each other).

Honestly, Manchester United should go out and play, and stop whinning.

The would, except they've been eliminated. :)

[Desnudo]

They mean teams should be seeded based on their PAST HISTORY (IE, if you won the competition as many times as ManYoo has, or as Real Madrid has, you should be seeded automatically and play weaker opposition..for example, it'd be like UCLA claiming that they should be a 1 seed because they won the NCAA Basketball tournament a ton of times)

Maybe they could seed based on total revenue. I'm sure that would please them.

[SunDancer]

They mean teams should be seeded based on their PAST HISTORY (IE, if you won the competition as many times as ManYoo has, or as Real Madrid has, you should be seeded automatically and play weaker opposition..for example, it'd be like UCLA claiming that they should be a 1 seed because they won the NCAA Basketball tournament a ton of times)

Thanks for the clarification Fozzie.
While I don't like the idea of the past history, and like the idea of seeding based on group performance, a No. 1 team plays a No. 2. I would like to see the matchups based on "strength of group" (the winner of the hardest group would play the runner-up of the "weakest group". The strength would be the average rating of the four teams co-effecient rating.

[KevinNU7]

Thanks for the clarification Fozzie.
While I don't like the idea of the past history, and like the idea of seeding based on group performance, a No. 1 team plays a No. 2. I would like to see the matchups based on "strength of group" (the winner of the hardest group would play the runner-up of the "weakest group". The strength would be the average rating of the four teams co-effecient rating.
Good luck determining group strength.

They should just a predetermined bracket like the World Cup and call it a day.

[MikeVick7]

Just go out and win a match or two...good lord. If you can't beat your opponent in the first knock-out stage you obviously don't have it in you to win the whole damn thing.

[andy m]

http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/gallery/town/thumbnails/NelsonHahaThumb.gif

[SirFozzie]

(to be chanted at Norwich fans in the tune of Daydream Believer by the Monkees)

"Cheer up Sleepy Jean..
Oh what can it mean..
to be a Norwich Supporter..
Cheering on a Shite football team..."

:D
:D
:D
:D

(grin, duck, RUN!)

[Mac Howard]

Interesting that only Alex Ferguson is being mentioned when Wenger and other European clubs are saying exactly the same thing.

The problem is do you want the CL to be a measure of the best in Europe or have the "romanticism" of the FA Cup. Currently, apart from a couple of simple rules, you have a random draw in the last 16. This introduces a "luck of the draw" element that favours the smaller clubs - it gives them the opportunity, as Millwall had in the FA Cup last year, to reach the later stages, not because of quality, but because of a lucky series of draws.

That's fine if that's the sort of competition you want.

But if you want the best two clubs to contest the final then you need to seed the draw to avoid the best teams knocking each other out in the early stages. For example, in the last 16 round, you had the top club of La Liga (Barcelona) playing the top club in the Premiership (Chelsea). Both clubs can claim to be amongst the best in Europe (based on performance) and yet one has to go out so early in the competition. That's not good either for the competition as a means of finding the best and certainly not good for the commercial health of the competition.

Would you be happy in the NFL playoffs if the best record in the AFC played the best record in the NFC as a wild card game? Would you like to see a random draw in, say Wimbledon, that could see the two top seeds play in the first round?

Seeding is used in most meaningful competitions. It's used in the group stages of the CL. They are merely suggesting that the same seeding is used for the later rounds so that the best teams do not eliminate each other early in the competition.

However. while reckognising the validity of the argument for seeding I would agree that Alex Ferguson, in particular, is being hypocritical here. He fielded a weak team in the final match of the group stage when winning would have placed his team as top team in the group and benefitted from the limited seeding that is used (top teams playing second teams). To ignore the seeding in this way and then claim that seeding isn't used does undermine his arguments somewhat.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Personally, I'm not sure that it's appropriate to do any more than they do right now, with group winners playing 2nd seeds. If the big clubs really deserve the leg up, they can achieve it by winning their group. Admittedly, this can be screwed up if one good team finishes second in their group, but there you are... giving a team credit for performance outside the current season is questionable at best IMO.

[Desnudo]

Mac,

I understand your argument, but I think the two situations are different. If eveyone played in the same league, like the NFL, then seeding makes sense to me. I don't think that trying to seed teams from different leagues in the same manner would work as well.

As a result of the random selection, we got to see fantastic matches between Man U and Milan, and Chelsea and Barcelona. I'll take that any day.

[ISiddiqui]

And the manner of seeding is a bit different. The seeding is based on past Champions League performance, which is a bit silly. It's like having the NFL playoffs and saying that New England gets the 1st seed for winning last year, and Philly gets 2nd seed for getting to the SuperBowl, even if there are other teams with better records this year.

[condors]

yes i agree the seeding system there is no way to do it "fair" so everyone will be happy, strength of league is very subjective, how you did 2 decades ago should have no bearing on how the team is seeded for this season.

I honestly don't have a problem with the random draw, i like reading about the matchups on the internet and see who got "lucky"

If Everton make the champions league next season i will be hoping that they do very well in fact i hope they lose to Manchester United in the finals. If Liverpool make it i honestly would not be rooting for them with the same interest.

[moriarty]

If Everton make the champions league next season i will be hoping that they do very well in fact i hope they lose to Manchester United in the finals. If Liverpool make it i honestly would not be rooting for them with the same interest.

I was watching Fox Football Friday, and they brought up the possibilty of Everton finishing 4th (getting the champions league spot) and Liverpool winning the Champions League. They said that under that scenario, Everton would give up their spot to Liverpool for next year.

I found that to be amazing considering the money involved and the fact that Everton and Liverpool are cross town rivals. Anyone know if something like this has happened previously?

Unfortunately, Liverpool doesn't have a chance in hell of winning the CL, so it's all pretty much just talk.

[andy m]

(to be chanted at Norwich fans in the tune of Daydream Believer by the Monkees)

"Cheer up Sleepy Jean..
Oh what can it mean..
to be a Norwich Supporter..
Cheering on a Shite football team..."

:D
:D
:D
:D

(grin, duck, RUN!)

except i support barnet ;)


1 Barnet 35 45 75
2 Aldershot 37 8 60


<i>all the lads and lasses,
all the smiley faces,
come from miles and miles around!
to see the barnet aces</i>

[Critch]

I don't think it would be Everton giving up the spot. From what I've read it would be the English FA would be asked to decide which teams they were entering into the Champions League, and by tradition the reigning Champions League winners would get one of the places.

My money would be on Liverpool not winning the Champions League and Everton not finishing 4th, unfortunately.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't think it would be Everton giving up the spot. From what I've read it would be the English FA would be asked to decide which teams they were entering into the Champions League, and by tradition the reigning Champions League winners would get one of the places.
Yep, that's right. The FA gets to decide which team goes forth in such a situation. Tradition has said the winner of the CL gets the spot, but it's not a hard and fast rule.

[condors]

yes i don't think Everton made a huge mistake selling Thomas Graveson(sp) to Real Madrid, that guy was one player on their team that they couldn't let go. He is so gritty and talented always making the right pass, making something happen from set pieces, winning the ball late. He is just a good guy to have on your side.(He was one player they had i would like to have playing for Manchester United)

[moriarty]

Yep, that's right. The FA gets to decide which team goes forth in such a situation. Tradition has said the winner of the CL gets the spot, but it's not a hard and fast rule.

That makes sense. I just couldn't see Everton willingly giving up their spot to their rivals.