Donovan coming back to the US?

[MrBug708]

The Galaxy is poised to trade its leading player, Guatemalan striker Carlos Ruiz, to FC Dallas so that it can acquire U.S. national team standout Landon Donovan from Bayer Leverkusen of the German Bundesliga.

Official announcement of the stunning double play could come as early as today but is more likely after this weekend's round of World Cup qualifying games.

Ruiz, who knows of the impending trade, is in Guatemala City for Saturday's qualifying match against Trinidad and Tobago. Donovan leaves Colorado Springs, Colo., with the rest of the U.S. team today for Sunday's qualifier against Mexico in Mexico City.

Doug Hamilton, the Galaxy's president and general manager, would not confirm Thursday that Donovan would be coming to Los Angeles, but sources told The Times that the 23-year-old midfielder could be in a Galaxy uniform in time for the team's April 2 Major League Soccer season opener at Columbus.

"As a general policy, we don't comment on speculation or rumors," Hamilton said of a Kicker magazine article published in Germany on Thursday that reported Donovan was returning to MLS.

"I have not seen the Kicker article, but I have been made aware of it," Hamilton continued. "I don't think it quotes anybody from Germany or the player or the player's representatives, so for me those are all just rumors."

Galaxy Coach Steve Sampson was not available to comment Thursday, a team spokesman said.

Donovan, the U.S. player of the year for the last three years and possibly the sport's most accomplished American, spent the last four seasons with the San Jose Earthquakes, on loan from Bayer Leverkusen, and won MLS championships with San Jose in 2001 and 2003.

He announced in November that he would return to Europe for a second stint with Bayer Leverkusen, which holds his contract.

Since rejoining the Bundesliga club in January, however, Donovan has played only sporadically, most often off the bench, and experienced what Kicker described as "an athletic Waterloo" with what the magazine termed "his totally ineffective performance in the Champions League against Liverpool."

The article said the 3-1 home loss in that March 9 game had devastated Donovan. "Within two weeks, he lost all inspiration," Kicker said. "He will continue his career in the USA."

If so, it will be in Los Angeles.

"If you're asking me if a player of his quality would be available in our league, yeah, we'd probably try to make a run at him," Hamilton acknowledged. "Pending cap issues and other things, sure."

Ruiz was the Galaxy's leading goal scorer in each of his three seasons with the club, scoring 61 goals in 83 regular-season and playoff matches. It was his goal that gave the Galaxy a 1-0 victory over the New England Revolution in MLS Cup 2002, earning Los Angeles its only MLS title to date.

Ruiz was the league's most valuable player in 2002, and the Guatemalan striker, nicknamed "El Pescadito" or "the Little Fish," was also MLS' top goal scorer in 2002, and its co-leading scorer in 2003.

At FC Dallas, Ruiz will be paired with Eddie Johnson, the league's co-leading scorer in 2004, giving the Galaxy's Western Conference rival one of the most potent offenses in MLS in 2005.

Dallas added another former Galaxy player Thursday when it signed defender Greg Vanney, who had been playing for Bastia in the French league for the last three years.

To acquire Donovan and still stay under the salary cap, the Galaxy was forced to part with Ruiz, as well as several other players Los Angeles traded away this year.

It was a price the Galaxy was willing to pay.

Tim Leiweke, the influential president of the Anschutz Entertainment Group, which counts five MLS teams, including the Galaxy, among its holdings, said in an interview with The Times in November that he believed Donovan's place was in MLS.

"Landon Donovan's the best player in MLS," Leiweke said. "Landon Donovan's the best player in the United States Soccer Federation's entire system. And Landon Donovan, God bless him, loves Major League Soccer.

"Landon has an issue he has to resolve in Germany one way or another. He has to resolve it once and for all. We knew this was coming for a while, and the league's going to have to work this out."

The message was clear: AEG wanted MLS to do whatever was necessary to help Donovan sever ties with Germany and return America's star to America's league.

As it turned out, Donovan opted to honor the contract he had with Bayer Leverkusen, which signed him as a highly promising 16-year-old out of Redlands East Valley High in February 1999.

He spent two predominantly unhappy years in Leverkusen, a grim industrial town without a hint of the California lifestyle to which Donovan was accustomed, and was unable to break into the first team.

After four years in MLS, however, he believed that he was ready to try again and was morally obligated to do so.

"This is not me having to go back to Germany," he said on Nov. 24. "This is me wanting to go back to Germany.

"They've assured me it's not a prison I'm going back to. If I don't like it, they will do whatever they need to do to make me happy."

And then there was this:

"I want to assure everyone [that] MLS is absolutely in my future at some point," he said. "I wish I could tell you when. I don't know. I'm going to Leverkusen with an open mind, but … I can promise you I'll be back in MLS someday."

April 2 might be that day.

--------------------------------

Stupi dmove for the Galaxy and Donovan. He needs to stay in mainland Europe and away from the MLS. The Galaxy need to keep Ruiz as it'll help them keep the Hispanic community with Chivas USA taking all of the Chivas fans, which dominant SoCal.

[rkmsuf]

The Galaxy is poised to trade its leading player

wow that's a big team.

[Crapshoot]

That would suck - if he can't it in Europe, you can't really label him as one of the better young talents anymore. besides- giving up after 2 months ? Wtf ?

[DaddyTorgo]

but hey, at least we're up to #10 (tied with Italy) in the FIFA rankings, Landon in Europe or not. Bummer for him, but maybe it really was a horrible fit? Still, 2 months seems a bit weak.

[tanglewood]

That would suck - if he can't it in Europe, you can't really label him as one of the better young talents anymore. besides- giving up after 2 months ? Wtf ?

My thought exactly. He's been back two months and he already wants to bail? That's ridiculous. So he hasn't always been in the team, did he expect to walk right in considering how well the previous stint went? And even when he has played his performances have been less than spectacular.

[Hurst2112]

I thought this was a thread about the singer Donavan. He is on tour with Mellencamp.

[WSUCougar]

I thought this was a thread about the singer Donavan. He is on tour with Mellencamp.
Superman or Green Lantern ain't got...nuthin' on me.

[condors]

i wouldn't say Donovan can't cut it. I would say Donovan isn't a very popular figure at Leverkusen. He didn't like his first stay there. He was open about wanting to play in the USA. Leverkusen owned his rights so he had to come back. He wasn't in the starting 11 for any regular basis. Donovan is a quality player. Did you see him in the world cup? in the MLS? He can play at any level.

[vyshka]

If he can't get settled in with Leverkusen he should give England a shot. He needs to play in Europe if he wants to reach his full potential.

[Tekneek]

He surely gets more confidence playing here in MLS than he does there. Instead of a loan, though, MLS should buy him and bring him home. If they don't like the price, maybe some corporation or rich soccer lover could pony up the cash to bring him back on an MLS contract.

[MrBug708]

If he can't get settled in with Leverkusen he should give England a shot. He needs to play in Europe if he wants to reach his full potential.

I'd much rather have him not play anywhere near England. We dont want any bad habits forming from the style they play there.

[bhlloy]

Confidence is one thing, but he's never going to be a world class player playing against MLS competition. He needs to get a good couple of seasons in Europe, preferably in the Premiership or he's going to find himself dropping behind the other US players who are playing at a higher level on a regular basis.

I have no doubt skillwise he's good enough, but maybe not mentally ready yet. Which is worrying seeing as he should be coming into his prime right around now.

[cthomer5000]

I thought this was a thread about the singer Donavan. He is on tour with Mellencamp.
I was also expecting it to be about him. http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/redface.gif

[bhlloy]

I'd much rather have him not play anywhere near England. We dont want any bad habits forming from the style they play there.

Can you explain why you wouldn't want him playing in the most competitive league in the world? Exactly what bad habits are you talking about?

[Desnudo]

Surely he'd develop better habits playing in one of the best leagues in the world rather than our mediocre domestic league. If playing hard, physical football for 90 minutes is a bad habit, I wish more US players would pick it up.

I think it's unfortunate that he ended up in Germany in the first place. I don't think the style of soccer they play and the mentality they bring to the game represents the best situation for him. Lots of players have failed to adjust to certain styles of play, moving between Italy and England for example, only to succeed elsewhere. I wonder if he wouldn't be more successful in the Dutch or French leagues.

Calling a one game performance "a personal waterloo" is ridiculous. Expecting any player to move into a foreign culture and immediately succeed is asking a lot. I do wonder if he has the personal determination and desire to succeed at the highest level though.

[Tekneek]

Calling a one game performance "a personal waterloo" is ridiculous.

This sort of thing happens all of the time. One bad game can keep you toiling in the reserves for weeks and months at some of those clubs.

[Desnudo]

The Leverkusen coach should be looking at himself on that one. Putting him in to start in a CL match at Anfield, already down 3-1, seems a bit a of a strech, considering he'd hardly played domestically for them. And it's not exactly like the rest of the team shone that night.

[ISiddiqui]

Not a good move. Not just for him, but American soccer players in general. Donovan is seen as the US star player and if it is seen that he can't cut it in Europe and runs with his tail between his legs, what other European team will take a flyer on an American?

[PilotMan]

You know but what about the flip side of that. He is obviously, besides maybe Adu, the most visible, marketable player in the MLS. The fact that he would be playing at home could have a significant impact on the MLS. I seems to me that quality players returning home brings up the quality of the league as a whole. Individually, it may not be the best for his long term growth, but we all know how important morale is in performance.

[Desnudo]

I don't think it will stop the flow of Americans over to Europe, but it certainly won't help accelerate it. Why does it have to be either Germany or home? Surely some other team in Europe would be interested in his skills.

[Crapshoot]

The Leverkusen coach should be looking at himself on that one. Putting him in to start in a CL match at Anfield, already down 3-1, seems a bit a of a strech, considering he'd hardly played domestically for them. And it's not exactly like the rest of the team shone that night.

umm, he was missing 3 strikers due to injury- you think he had options ?

[ISiddiqui]

You know but what about the flip side of that. He is obviously, besides maybe Adu, the most visible, marketable player in the MLS. The fact that he would be playing at home could have a significant impact on the MLS. I seems to me that quality players returning home brings up the quality of the league as a whole. Individually, it may not be the best for his long term growth, but we all know how important morale is in performance.
It would be better for US soccer in the long run (and short run, I'd argue) if Donovan was successful in Europe. Perhaps he should consider going to Europe, if he doesn't like Germany. If he fails, the US soccer player is seen much less favorably, and the big clubs will be wary of signing them.

[Desnudo]

umm, he was missing 3 strikers due to injury- you think he had options ?

umm, well he was able to find someone to sub in for him, so obviously yes.

[Desnudo]

It would be better for US soccer in the long run (and short run, I'd argue) if Donovan was successful in Europe. Perhaps he should consider going to Europe, if he doesn't like Germany. If he fails, the US soccer player is seen much less favorably, and the big clubs will be wary of signing them.

I don't think his (possible) failure changes things that much. We're past the point where Europe perceives the US as devoid of prospects. Beasley's success at PSV alone is enough to prove that and EPL teams wouldn't be putting American players into their youth programs if they didn't feel they could succeed..

[HomerJSimpson]

I would think he'd be a good fit in the Dutch league. I, too, would love for him to get out of Germany, but not back here.

[moriarty]

If this is true, he gave up way too early IMO. Yes, he had a bad game against Liverpool, and he is a substitute at best right now ... but he's only been with the team a couple of months. Look at DMB ... he's not starting and yet he's working his butt off to still contribute to PSV. Look at Tim Howard. He got dumped and he's still fighting for the starting goalkeeper spot for Man U.

These guys want to make themselves better players. They talk about playing against the best competition. Even in Landon's interviews he tends to talk more about the importance of enjoying himself and less on making himself a better player ... he seems to lack the Jordan/Woods instict which makes athletes great.

It'll be good for the MLS in the short term ... but bad for the National team in the long term as IMO it'll stunt the development of one of their best players. DMB is now the man.

[MrBug708]

Can you explain why you wouldn't want him playing in the most competitive league in the world? Exactly what bad habits are you talking about?

I didn't mean it as a slam, but the style that is played in the EPL isn't the same style that Arena uses and the systems would clash a little too noticeable.

I'd send Donovan to Mexico personally....

[ISiddiqui]

I don't think his (possible) failure changes things that much. We're past the point where Europe perceives the US as devoid of prospects. Beasley's success at PSV alone is enough to prove that and EPL teams wouldn't be putting American players into their youth programs if they didn't feel they could succeed..
I think that's a far too optimistic view. Even with the success of Beasley (and it isn't that much of a success), most Europeans (especially Brits) think American players are crap already. Don't need to give them more fodder.

[Desnudo]

I think that's a far too optimistic view. Even with the success of Beasley (and it isn't that much of a success), most Europeans (especially Brits) think American players are crap already. Don't need to give them more fodder.

Maybe the average fan does. But I don't think managers feel the same way, or else Demarcus wouldn't even be at PSV and Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool wouldn't have Americans in their youth systems.

Edit: I think 11 goals and 35 first team appearances is a pretty solid start for Beasley.

[moriarty]

Maybe the average fan does. But I don't think managers feel the same way, or else Demarcus wouldn't even be at PSV and Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool wouldn't have Americans in their youth systems.

Edit: I think 11 goals and 35 first team appearances is a pretty solid start for Beasley.

I agree, I think the managers/scouts all realize that there is a tremendous amount of untapped athleticism in the US and the number of US players abroad will continue to grow (and not just goalies). Until we have a true overseas star (who isn't a goalie) though I think most fans overseas will underestimate US players.

Still the best way to convince everyone is to have a strong national team and I think we become stronger the more our players get used to playing against top competition overseas. Which brings us back to Donovan ...

[bhlloy]

I think that's a far too optimistic view. Even with the success of Beasley (and it isn't that much of a success), most Europeans (especially Brits) think American players are crap already. Don't need to give them more fodder.

As a Brit I don't agree with that statement at all, I think there is a lot of respect for US soccer over here right now. I actually think we probably have a bit more of a legacy of respecting US soccer than most other European nations - remembering the days of Wegerle at Coventry and Harkes at Sheff Wed. Either way everybody knows the US is a decent team and is producing talented players. I think what you are really crying out for now is a star player who is on one of the top teams and in a starring role. I understand Donovan moving back home will be nice for MLS marketing wise but the disappointment is that he looked like he was going to be that star for a while. Beasley could still be that player and I'm not going to rule out Howard at Man Utd if he can become a bit more consistent because he is in the perfect position - goalie at the biggest team in the world.

Donovan could walk into a team like Man City or Portsmouth and at least be a key contributor off the bench and there is no doubt it would make him a better player than if he goes to MLS. Even the Mexican league is a good 2-3 notches at least below Premiership standard.
And if Arena is worried about his players playing a "European" or "British" style of football - dare I say that is the style of football he will probably need to get further in a major tournament? Samba football is OK if you have Brazil like talent, but the US doesn't have that kind of talent. For now anyway.

[Easy Mac]

If this is true, he gave up way too early IMO. Yes, he had a bad game against Liverpool, and he is a substitute at best right now ... but he's only been with the team a couple of months. Look at DMB ... he's not starting and yet he's working his butt off to still contribute to PSV. Look at Tim Howard. He got dumped and he's still fighting for the starting goalkeeper spot for Man U.

These guys want to make themselves better players. They talk about playing against the best competition. Even in Landon's interviews he tends to talk more about the importance of enjoying himself and less on making himself a better player ... he seems to lack the Jordan/Woods instict which makes athletes great.

It'll be good for the MLS in the short term ... but bad for the National team in the long term as IMO it'll stunt the development of one of their best players. DMB is now the man.
You mean someone wants to have fun playing the sport they love? Perish the thought. Besides he always seemed the happiest playing in the US anyway. Its not like the 15-20 games he plays each year for the US won't help him stay at the top of his game.

However, how does San Jose make out in all this. They had to give up Donovan, and now they get nothing when he comes back after 2 months. Not really fair to them.

[bhlloy]

You mean someone wants to have fun playing the sport they love? Perish the thought. Besides he always seemed the happiest playing in the US anyway. Its not like the 15-20 games he plays each year for the US won't help him stay at the top of his game.


DOLA - unfortunately probably not against the kind of teams the US generally faces. The CONCACAF qualifiers - these kind of games are not going to keep a player sharp or improve his skills. IMO, he wants to develop he has to play in Europe. Not belittling MLS, but the coaching and standard of play just aren't there.

[moriarty]

You mean someone wants to have fun playing the sport they love? Perish the thought. Besides he always seemed the happiest playing in the US anyway. Its not like the 15-20 games he plays each year for the US won't help him stay at the top of his game.


I respect what you're saying, and if it makes Donovan happy that's cool for him. My point is that the elite athletes always want to play against the top competition anywhere, anyplace, anytime. I'm sure Demarcus misses living in the US too but it seems he's more interested in maximizing his development.

And 10-20 games mostly against teams like Trinadad and Tobago etc... is not the same thing. Even his own coach, Bruce Arena has said on mutliple occasions Donovan needs to play overseas to continue to grow as a player.

[ISiddiqui]

As a Brit I don't agree with that statement at all, I think there is a lot of respect for US soccer over here right now. I actually think we probably have a bit more of a legacy of respecting US soccer than most other European nations - remembering the days of Wegerle at Coventry and Harkes at Sheff Wed. Either way everybody knows the US is a decent team and is producing talented players. I think what you are really crying out for now is a star player who is on one of the top teams and in a starring role. I understand Donovan moving back home will be nice for MLS marketing wise but the disappointment is that he looked like he was going to be that star for a while. Beasley could still be that player and I'm not going to rule out Howard at Man Utd if he can become a bit more consistent because he is in the perfect position - goalie at the biggest team in the world.
Well, on a couple different forums (BigSoccer and SDMB), I've had Brits who've said the US's WC success in 2002 was a fluke and American players are not that good except as goalkeepers. It seems that the general impression was that Brits look at the US soccer players and national team with more than a bit of disdain, while nationals of other countries don't seem to have that view.

[Desnudo]

I agree, I think the managers/scouts all realize that there is a tremendous amount of untapped athleticism in the US and the number of US players abroad will continue to grow (and not just goalies). Until we have a true overseas star (who isn't a goalie) though I think most fans overseas will underestimate US players.

Still the best way to convince everyone is to have a strong national team and I think we become stronger the more our players get used to playing against top competition overseas. Which brings us back to Donovan ...

I think you're right about the true star. That's why the excitement about Freddy Adu grew so big. I agree with the previous poster that said Beasley might be the more likely future superstar especially when you compare his mentality, strong and confident, with Donovan's, kind of a homeboy. Eddie Johnson might be another one who could make a big impact in Europe since he seems to have the confidence and drive that Beasley has.

[moriarty]

Well, on a couple different forums (BigSoccer and SDMB), I've had Brits who've said the US's WC success in 2002 was a fluke and American players are not that good except as goalkeepers. It seems that the general impression was that Brits look at the US soccer players and national team with more than a bit of disdain, while nationals of other countries don't seem to have that view.

I'd be willing to bet that those same individuals wouldn't complain if Donovan or Beasley happened to end up on their clubs. Ask the Man U fans if they'd like to release Jonathon Spector on a free ... or Fulham if they'd prefer to part with Boconegra. My guess is not.

[vyshka]

What I don't understand is how he can be contemplating this after just a couple of months back. Did he think he wouldn't have to earn a spot on the first team and they would give it to him as part of the 'do anything to make him happy clause'? He talks about moral obligation and is going to run like a baby after 1 bad app in the CL? Sounds like he still hasn't grown up any more than the last time he was with Leverkusen. If it turns out true, I will have lost a lot of respect for him.

[SunDancer]

As a Brit I don't agree with that statement at all, I think there is a lot of respect for US soccer over here right now. I actually think we probably have a bit more of a legacy of respecting US soccer than most other European nations - remembering the days of Wegerle at Coventry and Harkes at Sheff Wed. Either way everybody knows the US is a decent team and is producing talented players. I think what you are really crying out for now is a star player who is on one of the top teams and in a starring role. I understand Donovan moving back home will be nice for MLS marketing wise but the disappointment is that he looked like he was going to be that star for a while. Beasley could still be that player and I'm not going to rule out Howard at Man Utd if he can become a bit more consistent because he is in the perfect position - goalie at the biggest team in the world.

Donovan could walk into a team like Man City or Portsmouth and at least be a key contributor off the bench and there is no doubt it would make him a better player than if he goes to MLS. Even the Mexican league is a good 2-3 notches at least below Premiership standard.
And if Arena is worried about his players playing a "European" or "British" style of football - dare I say that is the style of football he will probably need to get further in a major tournament? Samba football is OK if you have Brazil like talent, but the US doesn't have that kind of talent. For now anyway.

What is Samba football? "European" football is technical, passing, slow-tempo, and British is uptempo-physical style right? What type of style of Arena want/play?

I think the US is putting together a good system finally (would hosting the WC in 94 be a big part for this) for producing stronger talent throug the ranks. Do you see Abu to be in Europe in 3 years, starting? I think the US can do well in Germany next summer. I think Europeans are starting to see the US players, possibly more physically gifted, though not as technically developed?

[vyshka]

I believe Samba is Brazilian football

[Desnudo]

What is Samba football? "European" football is technical, passing, slow-tempo, and British is uptempo-physical style right? What type of style of Arena want/play?

I think the US is putting together a good system finally (would hosting the WC in 94 be a big part for this) for producing stronger talent throug the ranks. Do you see Abu to be in Europe in 3 years, starting? I think the US can do well in Germany next summer. I think Europeans are starting to see the US players, possibly more physically gifted, though not as technically developed?

I think that's the case, judging by the ratings in FM 05. Great physical, poor technical, which may be a hangover bias.

And Samba is Brazilian football. Flair and creativity.

[SunDancer]

I think that's the case, judging by the ratings in FM 05. Great physical, poor technical, which may be a hangover bias.

And Samba is Brazilian football. Flair and creativity.

Yeah, I wasn't exactly sure what Samba football was base on.

Personally, if we can get our talented, physically gifted players over to Europe to develop the technical skills, I think we would have some extremely world-class players.

[daedalus]

I didn't mean it as a slam, but the style that is played in the EPL isn't the same style that Arena uses and the systems would clash a little too noticeable.

I'd send Donovan to Mexico personally....I like Arena's "style" as much as I like Sven Goran Eriksson. Thank the Heavens Emile Heskey isn't American.

You are afraid that Donovan will learn bad habits so you think he should go to the Mexican league. Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookay.

[Desnudo]

Yeah, I wasn't exactly sure what Samba football was base on.

Personally, if we can get our talented, physically gifted players over to Europe to develop the technical skills, I think we would have some extremely world-class players.

I think the physical development in the US is the best in the world due to the other pro sports forging its development. I also think the next generation is going to be a lot better technically. From what I see at local soccer fields, people seem to know what they're doing from a training standpoint, which didn't use to be the case.

[MrBug708]

I like Arena's "style" as much as I like Sven Goran Eriksson. Thank the Heavens Emile Heskey isn't American.

You are afraid that Donovan will learn bad habits so you think he should go to the Mexican league. Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookay.

Mexican players rarely take Euro offers to leave their country and they have some fiercely loyal fans. Being from SoCal, you tend to see it a bit more down here than I'm sure you do where you are at.

[MrBug708]

Mexican players rarely take Euro offers to leave their country and they have some fiercely loyal fans. Being from SoCal, you tend to see it a bit more down here than I'm sure you do where you are at.

Dola

You are from here....lol

My mistake. All the same, I've been exposed to a lot of the Mexican Soccer leagues and think that Donovan would benefit from playing down there...

[Mr. Wednesday]

The Leverkusen coach should be looking at himself on that one. Putting him in to start in a CL match at Anfield, already down 3-1, seems a bit a of a strech, considering he'd hardly played domestically for them. And it's not exactly like the rest of the team shone that night.Ponte was out on accumulation of cautions, that's why Landon started that game.

I've seen a variety of speculation about the situation, and there are some people who think that his style of play doesn't really fit with the way Leverkusen plays right now.

[daedalus]

I'd much rather have him not play anywhere near England. We dont want any bad habits forming from the style they play there.I didn't mean it as a slam, but the style that is played in the EPL isn't the same style that Arena uses and the systems would clash a little too noticeable.

I'd send Donovan to Mexico personally....Mexican players rarely take Euro offers to leave their country and they have some fiercely loyal fans. Being from SoCal, you tend to see it a bit more down here than I'm sure you do where you are at.Dola

You are from here....lol

My mistake. All the same, I've been exposed to a lot of the Mexican Soccer leagues and think that Donovan would benefit from playing down there...I have no doubt about the loyalty of Mexican fans nor the fierceness of their loyalty. They are great fans.

On the other hand, I still fail to see how the level of fierceness of Mexican fans make that league a better place for Donovan to play than the Premiership, a league considered to be amongst the elites in the world. I'm of the opinion that the Premiership is, at the moment, the best fit for Donovan - he has the speed and sufficient technical skill to make some noise in that league and I think he could use learning to deal with the physical play. The only other elite-level league I would think him a good fit in would be La Liga and I'm not sure his technical skill are refine enough for that league.

[SunDancer]

I think the physical development in the US is the best in the world due to the other pro sports forging its development. I also think the next generation is going to be a lot better technically. From what I see at local soccer fields, people seem to know what they're doing from a training standpoint, which didn't use to be the case.

Yeap, our sports mindset and passion is based on the physical athletic play. It seems these countries really have one "sport", expect here, you have many differnet primary sports. In high school, kids are constantly playing differnet sports (maybe football in the fall, basketball in the winter, track and field in the spring). It does seem the next generation is better technically. Is it a possible increase in soccer's awareness and slowly-growing popularity, and development on better youth coaching, is the reason for this?

How good is Freddy Abu? I haven't gotten a chance to see him play yet (the MLS isn't on too much).

[SunDancer]

dola...

What is Arena's style of play? Does Mexico play more of a La Liga style?

[bhlloy]

Could not agree more, Mexico is an OK league but not one that is going to help a player progress.

With regards to the style issue... I was making a distinction between 2 "styles" - Samba style football which I consider South American and to some extent Central American (Mexican) which is quite low tempo, very skilled, favouring full backs and midfielders that get forward a lot. And then there is a more European style, a bit more up tempo, structured kind of style often with a big target striker and at least one defensively minded midfielder in the center. As the US doesn't have the talent to play the first, I'd have thought the second would be ideal and as that's the kind of football in the Premiership.

There is of course a more extreme style which is Germanic and typically British in which you often have 2 big strikers, center backs of at least 6'4 and 15 stone, defensively minded midfielders and try to kick the shit out of everyone. Having just come back from Wales' shameful showing against Austria I can appreciate this style works. I can understand why MrBug wouldn't want Donovan playing in this kind of environment, but that style of play is long gone from the Premiership.

BTW I am far from a soccer guru - just wanted to explain what I was trying to get at.

[Desnudo]

I think the best league for Donovan might be Holland. They seem to do an excellent job of developing talent. Since it's less pressurized, relatively speaking, than the EPL, it might be a better fit. I think Donovan would get ko'd trying to play in England and I don't know if he has the mentality to adjust. Although playing in an English speaking country might help.

[condors]

tommorrow vs Mexico in thier stadium that is way up in the sky should be an interesting test.

[vyshka]

I was thinking a big part of the problem he has had with Germany is the Culture/Language issues, which is why I recommended the EPL. Holland would probably be a good fit. It seems there is at least some truth to his wanting to move on. Either read online in article or heard it on ESPN today, but Bayer were saying 'We understand you are frustrated with not playing' and Donovan telling them 'I need to be playing, here, in the MLS, EPL, Spain, somewhere but I need to play'. So I imagine Bayer will be trying to sell him off, but can he go anywhere in Europe right now? Isn't the transfer window closed? I don't know what the deal is with between Europe - USA.

[Desnudo]

At this point, he wouldn't be able to move in Europe until July 1. I don't know about the US. Beasley and Donovan at PSV together has a nice ring to it. Maybe a team with an American might be willing to take a shot at him. Fulham anyone? If he returns to the US at this point in his career, you'd have to say that he'll likely not reach his potential. His age is definitely starting to become a factor.

[vyshka]

In my game I am playing in CM5 to give it a go and see how far short it falls of FM2005, I am playing ManU and bought him from Bayer, only to have his work permit denied. :) Everyone I have my scouts look at they say they doubt they will be able to secure a spot on the first team. This is with many first teamers injured, and I am scouting the likes of Sean Wright-Phillips, Deco, Totti, Figo. I will post a review in the forum later this week. The game definitely has issues.

[SunDancer]

CM5 over FM 2005?

(Shakes fisk.....)

How does Work permits work? England is the only country that has them right?

[Desnudo]

In my game I am playing in CM5 to give it a go and see how far short it falls of FM2005, I am playing ManU and bought him from Bayer, only to have his work permit denied. :) Everyone I have my scouts look at they say they doubt they will be able to secure a spot on the first team. This is with many first teamers injured, and I am scouting the likes of Sean Wright-Phillips, Deco, Totti, Figo. I will post a review in the forum later this week. The game definitely has issues.

CM5/Man U, do you like to tease kittens in your spare time?

[vyshka]

CM5 over FM 2005?

(Shakes fisk.....)

How does Work permits work? England is the only country that has them right?

Trust me, I like FM2005 much better, but wanted to see what BGS and Eidos came up with. I doubt they will ever be able to pass SI, and if you like the SI line it is what you will stick with. I doubt I will buy another incarnation of the BGS game.

I think all of the EU countries require them for a US citizen, but just bc you got one for country x doesn't mean country y will grant one to you.

[vyshka]

CM5/Man U, do you like to tease kittens in your spare time?

I just started it up and chose them since I've never played a prem team in FM before. Hadn't planned on playing this long but I want to see how long it will take them to sack me. The fans want my head, but the board hasnt turned on me yet. :)

[Mr. Wednesday]

England is the only country that I'm aware of that does the 75% of competitive matches requirement for a work permit. I imagine other countries require some sort of visa, but they choose to restrict foreigners in other ways.

The MLS transfer window is open until March 31, plus I think there may be a restriction on registration for more than two clubs in a calendar year.

[Desnudo]

It's the UK, not just England, but otherwise, yes.

[tanglewood]

Yes, the non-EU rule in the UK is basically that you can have as many as you want but they must bof only the high quality. (Hence the 75% of internationals rule and 60% of games once the arrive rules).

In other EU nations, you can sign any non-EU player, but you have a restriction on how many you can have overall. In Spain I think it is 4 per team. In Italy, the number of non-EU players in Seria A is fixed, but the distribution amongst the clubs is not. So if the limit was 10 non-EU across the whle league (it is obviously much more) Milan could have 2, Inter 3, Juve, 1, Roma 3 and Lazio 1 or whatever. When a non-EU player is soold abroad by a team, they get one 'non-Eu slot' freed up whcih they can then use to buy a non-EU player from abroad. There is no penalty for buying non-EU players from other Italian clubs, the limit is adjusted for both clubs, just as there is no problem in buying non-EU players between UK clubs (they already have a WP).

[tanglewood]

In case anyone is wondering, the European Union includes the following countries:

Austria
Belgium
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luzembourg
Matla
Poland
Portugal
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spian
Sweden
The Netherlands
United Kingdom

Norway and Iceland are not EU nations, but has negotiated free movement treaties with the EU so Norwegians and Icelandics do not count as non-EU players.

[moriarty]

Back to Donovan, I heard in some interview he said that he wasn't going to think about it until after Wednesday (Guatemala match) and then he had a major decision to make.

Sounds like he's still on the fence, but my guess is that he is gone. I hope he does a 1-year deal with the Galaxy w/ the hope of playing abroad again in the fall. I doubt it though.

[vyshka]

More rumblings on a few sites that he coming back to the MLS with his tail between his legs.

Here is a good article about him. soccernet article (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=328994&cc=5901)

[vyshka]

Here's a nice quote about Landon Donovan from Arena:

Donovan attributed his tentativeness in the first half Sunday to his lack of playing time with Bayer Leverkusen in Germany. He had not been in a game since March 7.

"I'm just not as sharp as I usually am," he said.

Photo Gallery...
WCQ: Mexico vs. USA





U.S. coach Bruce Arena didn't want to hear any of that.

"I think Landon has to say, 'I don't feel rusty,' because that's psychological," Arena said. "It's not like Landon hasn't touched a soccer ball in three months. He's got to have his mind-set that he can get out there and play and have an impact on the game."

link to article http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3497720

[DaddyTorgo]

Donovan confuses me. I like his game, he definately has the technical skill. I guess he just seems to lack the necessary "killer instinct." It's kinda like that soccernet article someone linked down below said. He has all the talent he just doesn't have the ganas...the desire or something. Which is too bad. He's still young though, he still has a year maybe two to turn it around.

[ISiddiqui]

Great soccernet article! I have to agree. Donovan is NOT the answer and it doesn't look like he'll ever be the answer. His confidence gets rattled waaay too easily. I think it's time we look at Beasley, who has done well at the higher level of Europe (PSV is playing lights out at the moment). Give DaMarcus his prefered spot and let Donovan play second fiddle until he sorts this out.

[Desnudo]

Part of a PSV interview with Beasley. An interesting contrast with Donovan on outlook, I think:

http://english.psv.nl/show?id=9720&contentid=7823

[daedalus]

I think people are looking for more out of Donovan (US soccer's "messiah"?) than he's capable of. He seems to be what he is, a nice offensive midfielder with good skills. And just that. To be fair, I can't recall him claiming to be or trying to be more than that. I'm not sure I would want him as one of the forwards in a league tougher than MLS as I still consider his finishing to be suspect. Memories are slightly fuzzy but I vaguely recall him having a few chances against Germany in the World Cup but didn't really force Kahn to make any tough saves. I would think his best spot with the US squad would be just behind two strikers, trying to set them up.

I don't know about the idea of Beasley in his "preferred" spot, if it's behind the strikers as that PSV interview alluded to. His speed and work rate makes him a threat on the outside but I haven't seen anything from him in limited space to make me think he would be a good fit there (behind the strikers). I do agree that his attitude seems to be far more positive than Donovan's and is more likely to succeed at a higher level. If his technical skills continue to improve (as it should, playing in Holland), I can see him becoming a contributor in other elite leagues.

[moriarty]

Great soccernet article! I have to agree. Donovan is NOT the answer and it doesn't look like he'll ever be the answer. His confidence gets rattled waaay too easily. I think it's time we look at Beasley, who has done well at the higher level of Europe (PSV is playing lights out at the moment). Give DaMarcus his prefered spot and let Donovan play second fiddle until he sorts this out.

Yeah, I got to say I rather agree with that article. But DMB has always played much better out on the wing IMO. You could see in the Mexico game how easily he was pushed off the ball in the center - he's just not a physical player. Put him out on the wing where people have to respect him blowing by them and he becomes dangerous.

[Mr. Wednesday]

At PSV, my impression is that DMB plays as more of a wing forward. Against Mexico, I thought he was killing the U.S. attack with his problems possessing the ball. His first touch wasn't good enough to be playing in central midfield (granted, I didn't watch significant stretches of the game because I was frustrated with the U.S. level of play). Regardless of whether that's where he wants to play, I don't think he has the skills.

[Crapshoot]

Donovan is a good player- but yeah, he's not likely to be a great one unless he moves on to competition tougher than the US.

[ISiddiqui]

I think Beasley could be a good play just behind the strikers, but he wasn't used there against Mexico. He played an attacking center halfback, but being just behind the strikers is far more upfield than that. Arena likes to play with 5 MF a lot, so he can't be in that spot (the attacking MF in a diamond mid field).

[Desnudo]

Against Mexico, Beasley was getting double marked anytime he touched the ball, so didn't have a whole lot of space to move.

[ISiddiqui]

Looks like Mexico picked the right guy to double team :D. Hopefully against Guatamala, Bruce goes with 2 forwards. I think that hurt the US as well in the attack.

I'd like to see:

Johnson - Wolff
---- Beasley ----
Lewis ----- Donovan
---- Mastro ----
Onye - Pope - Boca - Cheru

Have Beasley as more of a withdrawn striker making runs through the middle. If you want, you can switch Lewis with Beasley, but with two forwards, I think it's harder to double up on Beasley.

[Desnudo]

I'd like to see Donovan benched. He needs to learn that you can't just show up and pay half-assed. Unfortunately it won't happen.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, I was trying to be realistic ;). He's like the Beckham of the US, with far less talent ;).

I'd also like to see John O'Brian stay healthy. He'd be definetly be an asset.

[vyshka]

Yeah, I was trying to be realistic ;). He's like the Beckham of the US, with far less talent ;).

I'd also like to see John O'Brian stay healthy. He'd be definetly be an asset.

I was going to add , 'and without the hot wife' to the Beckham comment, but
I guess you covered it with the far less talent :D

[kingfc22]

Donovan going to LA is bulls***. He should come back to the Quakes or they should receive some heavy compensation.

[vyshka]

Donovan going to LA is bulls***. He should come back to the Quakes or they should receive some heavy compensation.

Why does FC Dallas own his rights? Galaxy are going to send Ruiz to Dallas, plus who knows what in order to get Donovan. Why don't we have a normal soccer league like the rest of the world? :(

[SunDancer]

Yeah, I was trying to be realistic ;). He's like the Beckham of the US, with far less talent ;).

I'd also like to see John O'Brian stay healthy. He'd be definetly be an asset.

But Like Donovan, I always felt that Beckham was somewhat overrated. Both are good talents (Beckham is more talented then Donovan), but hyped more (if Beckham wasn't married to Victoria and wasn't the "model boy", I'm not sure he would hyped as he is) then they really are worth.

What are Beasley's stats with PSV?

[ISiddiqui]

Why does FC Dallas own his rights? Galaxy are going to send Ruiz to Dallas, plus who knows what in order to get Donovan. Why don't we have a normal soccer league like the rest of the world? :(
I don't think it is because Dallas owns his rights, but to get under the salary cap or something similar.

[Desnudo]

What are Beasley's stats with PSV?

http://english.psv.nl/show?id=9720&dbid=626&typeofpage=22365

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think LA needs an allocation, and Dallas is willing to provide them one in return for Ruiz, but you should be able to get a more complete rundown at BigSoccer (as complete as anyone can provide given the way MLS changes the rules on the fly to suit their intended outcome...).

[ISiddiqui]

I think LA needs an allocation, and Dallas is willing to provide them one in return for Ruiz, but you should be able to get a more complete rundown at BigSoccer (as complete as anyone can provide given the way MLS changes the rules on the fly to suit their intended outcome...).
Though at BigSoccer avoid the 'Yanks Abroad' forum. You've been warned.

[SunDancer]

Anyone know if any other European clubs wanted him?

[Desnudo]

Coming home to mama (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/soccer/03/29/donovan.leverkusen.ap.ap/index.html?section=si_latest)

It sounds like it's all but official since that info is coming from BL. I doubt any European club is going to go out of their way to land him after this fiasco.

[ISiddiqui]

Who knows... but the January transfer window has been over, so he wouldn't be playing for another Euro club until the summer.

[Desnudo]

I meant this coming summer. It would also seem to go against the grain of his personality to come home and then nearly immediately, within 3-4 months, turn around and go back to Europe. It took long enough to get him back again after the first time.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Anyone know if any other European clubs wanted him?He'd have to ride the bench until at least July (when the European transfer window opens). There may be additional regulations that would have forced him to wait until the end of the year. Depending on the terms and his performance for country (less so for club, I should think), he may be able to find a smaller club in a big league that's willing to take a chance the next time he's able to move, and that might be a better fit for him than Leverkusen anyway.

[SunDancer]

He'd have to ride the bench until at least July (when the European transfer window opens). There may be additional regulations that would have forced him to wait until the end of the year. Depending on the terms and his performance for country (less so for club, I should think), he may be able to find a smaller club in a big league that's willing to take a chance the next time he's able to move, and that might be a better fit for him than Leverkusen anyway.

Transfer windows are July until end of August, and January 1st until February?

Yeah I know about the windows and that he would have to wait, I was curious as to if any clubs were "rumored" to be interested.

[Desnudo]

Not from what I've read. I don't think his performance at Liverpool got any EPL teams fired up about him. :)

[moriarty]

Why would any EPL team take a chance on him knowing that if he doesn't start immediately he'll be going home in a couple of months?

[condors]

a player can be in a bad fit, and not look good. A perfect example is Diego Forlan. Anyone who watched him go forever and a day unable to score a goal. Miss easy chances. I always thought he had talent and just need more of a chance(although i may have been in the minorty). He has already scored 17 league goals this year, 2nd in the league. He didn't become a good player after he left Manutd. He had the talent all along. Confidence, playing regulary with the first team, it makes a difference. I think what Joe Cole has done stepping in for Robben while pretty much a bench warmer most of the season is even more amazing. I think his teamates had confidence in him as soon as he came into the team. He feels part of the team. Donovan feels like an outsider who isn't wanted. I will continue to believe that Donovan has enough talent to play in any league in the world. He may need an american teamate/roomate who has played in the country before and get him settled and learn the different culture. Donovan isn't the only player to get homesick. I don't think its a huge knock on the guy.

[ISiddiqui]

Why would any EPL team take a chance on him knowing that if he doesn't start immediately he'll be going home in a couple of months?
Exactly. I don't think EPL teams are banging down the doors to get him. Maybe Donovan can try to latch onto a team in the Championship which is on the way up.

[Desnudo]

Done deal.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=329123&cc=5901

Also, Ruiz is reportedly off to Dallas.

[moriarty]

Well from the article ... it's pretty clear that it's Donovan's decision not leverkusen"s.

[Desnudo]

Yes. I found that comment about seperation from his girlfriend pretty telling about the whole situation. I'm not judging one way or the other, but it definitely shows where his priorities lie.

[moriarty]

Yes. I found that comment about seperation from his girlfriend pretty telling about the whole situation. I'm not judging one way or the other, but it definitely shows where his priorities lie.

Hmm... I'm going to have to google some pics of his girlfriend.

[moriarty]

Dola ...

Apparently it is this girl (or was):
hxxp://www.biancakajlich.com/maxim.jpg

Now that's a lot better than anything I'm getting ... but I have to believe he could get 2 or 3 girls as nice as her as a starting footballer in Germany.

[Tekneek]

"We have cleared him to play in the MLS and received a transfer fee of one million euros," business manager Wolfgang Holzhauser said.

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/overseas/germany/news/story_get.dor?STORY_NAME=international_feed/05/04/01/SOCCER_Ger-Arminia_Bielefeld_Preview.html&TEAMHD=germany

[moriarty]

OK, i know he had to say something in his press conference but this sorta pissed me off:

from soccernet 'For the last decade, MLS has seen internationals coming to the States to be part of this league and if we, as Americans, can't contribute to our league, it's a bit of a disservice in growing soccer here in the U.S. and making MLS as fierce as it can be.'

Now I may not really respect his homesickness, and disgruntlement with not playing, but I could understand it. But this quote makes it sound like his returning was an altruistic service to the MLS. It could also be construed (incorrectly hopefully) as a shot against some of the US stars who chose to play abroad.

[Tekneek]

It could also be construed (incorrectly hopefully) as a shot against some of the US stars who chose to play abroad.

"I want to be remembered as someone who helped this sport as much or more than anybody else," Donovan said. "I will be able to sleep tonight very happy and very content knowing that I did everything I could to make soccer at least the number two sport in this country."

I don't like Mr. Donovan.

[ISiddiqui]

No, with every statement that comes out of his mouth, I hate him more and more. Bleh...

For news on a true soccer, professional, Alan Shearer is coming back for another year to play for Newcastle in the EPL! Woot! :D

[Tekneek]

No, with every statement that comes out of his mouth, I hate him more and more. Bleh...

Indeed. I was on his side until he started talking. Delusions of grandeur for Landon. He is buying into the hype.

EDIT...Although, it is interesting that he starts talking like this after running away from a major club with his tail between his legs.

[KevinNU7]

"I want to be remembered as someone who helped this sport as much or more than anybody else," Donovan said. "I will be able to sleep tonight very happy and very content knowing that I did everything I could to make soccer at least the number two sport in this country."
Donovan,
When papers talk about football, they are talking about the game played with helmets. Your sport is like the 5th sport in this country.

[ISiddiqui]

Indeed. I was on his side until he started talking. Delusions of grandeur for Landon. He is buying into the hype.

EDIT...Although, it is interesting that he starts talking like this after running away from a major club with his tail between his legs.
Yep, and then saying those Americans who are playing in Europe are actually hurting US soccer. No, LD, YOU are hurting US Soccer by running back home crying, not being able to 'cut it' in the Bundesliga and get some seasoning on you to make yourself a better player in the international game.

[moriarty]

I keep trying to give this guy the benefit of the doubt as I really like him and his play as part of the USMNT ... however, with this whole situation he's moving more towards the Diouf end of my likeability chart.

[condors]

Guys, Donovan was miserable in Germany the first time he went and didn't want to go back, he didn't have a choice. He has stated publicly before that he wants to play in the USA and promote the game here. You can disagree with him but he stated this before its not coming from left field.

[Tekneek]

Guys, Donovan was miserable in Germany the first time he went and didn't want to go back, he didn't have a choice. He has stated publicly before that he wants to play in the USA and promote the game here. You can disagree with him but he stated this before its not coming from left field.

Sure he did, but he also signed that contract. Besides, it is less about what happened, but what he has said. After reading his comments, and then looking at what has happened, I'm left with a judgment very different than the one I started with.

[Desnudo]

From the conference it doesn't sound like he's planning on heading back to Europe anytime soon. The whole statement sounded defensive which, I suppose, was to be expected. I did find his comment about not needing to play in Europe to reach the top of his game pretty funny. That's like saying you can play in Euro NFL and develop just as fast as in the real one.

[moriarty]

Guys, Donovan was miserable in Germany the first time he went and didn't want to go back, he didn't have a choice. He has stated publicly before that he wants to play in the USA and promote the game here. You can disagree with him but he stated this before its not coming from left field.

That's not completely true. He said on several occasions that he went back to Germany to try and help the team and that he thought he owed Leverkusen for being good to him for letting him out of the contract in the first place. He also received special assurances about playing time, and being allowed out if it didn't work.

That's hardly the same as being forced into going back or not having any choice.

But it's not like he's doing this as a martyr for the US team. He didn't like Germany fine. But don't make it sound like the reason you're leaving is because you want to make soccer big in the US ... or even worse, make it sound like others playing abroad don't care about soccer in the US>

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, it's BS to say that he didn't have a choice. You can't be transfered if you refuse to sign the contract with the offering club.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Yep, and then saying those Americans who are playing in Europe are actually hurting US soccer. No, LD, YOU are hurting US Soccer by running back home crying, not being able to 'cut it' in the Bundesliga and get some seasoning on you to make yourself a better player in the international game. The only way the U.S. will ever reach "the next level" is if we no longer need to export players to Europe. You can say what you want about Donovan's reasons for returning, but I think you're way off base to criticize him for being in touch with what is ultimately best for MLS and the U.S.

[moriarty]

The only way the U.S. will ever reach "the next level" is if we no longer need to export players to Europe.

That's the result, that's not how we get there. We clearly aren't at a point yet where we don't have to send people fof to Europe.

There aren't too many people out there who would say that the best thing for US soccer is to keep all our players in the MLS. Most folks would disagree. In fact the MLS disagrees (otherwise they would have never agreed to the Howard/Beasley deals etc..). Sure they rejected $5M for EJ, but he'll be playing overseas soon enough.

Anyways, anyone who really thinks Donovan is coming back to help out US soccer is clearly mislead. If he really felt the best way to help US soccer is to play in the MLS, he would have never left in the first place.

[ISiddiqui]

The only way the U.S. will ever reach "the next level" is if we no longer need to export players to Europe. You can say what you want about Donovan's reasons for returning, but I think you're way off base to criticize him for being in touch with what is ultimately best for MLS and the U.S.
I don't think this even GOOD for the MLS, let alone, what is ultimately best. The best thing for the US is to succeed at the World Cup. THAT is what will get soccer fans. In order to get the US to succeed consistently, we have to play at the top level. The way to do that is to send our boys to Europe. Landon is seriously deluded if he thinks the best thing for soccer in this country is if our guys stay in the league that continues to languish as a second tier league (if that).

After that, THEN we can think about the MLS being a top tier league and having the best US talent stay in the states.

[condors]

Yeah, it's BS to say that he didn't have a choice. You can't be transfered if you refuse to sign the contract with the offering club.

He signed that agreement before he was in the MLS he was never owned by the MLS he played there on loan per his request. He went to the MLS because he was miserable in Germany. He got called back and he could have either not reported or go and give it another shot. He went and was miserable again.

[ISiddiqui]

he could have either not reported or go and give it another shot
Hey look! A choice!