Is It Just A Crush? Is It More? Do You Guys Really Want To Hear This Stuff?

[Chief Rum]

I figured if I could go anywhere for objective advice and support, it would be here. I have a few close and personal friends, but my life is way too busy to be constantly speaking with them. Many of you are like a second, virtual family to me, so I value what you say. And the sheer number of you ensures that I can get a variety of opinions.

Plus, I have seen from threads like CleBrownsFan (I think?) and Balldog's that you guys are like a bunch of catty women when a good soap comes along (don't take that the wrong way, please ;) ).

So here's the situation...

Some of you know I have recently started a new job, one that has taken away much of my free time. Well, the reality is there is a lot of stuff going on. This isn't just a job, but really a way for me to dig myself out of the sedentary and stagnant life that I had come to lead (great for participation in online leagues, bad for everything else).

I just found out I am officially being hired on from the company's temp agency after three grueling months of long hours, plus tons of overtime. So I am on my way there. I am building up cash to get a new car (hopefully by next week), and I hope to have my own place by the end of the year. Basically, I am turning my life around.

Enter the cops. About a month ago, I was picked up for an old warrant. I won't go into details because I don't think that's a good idea here, but let's say it was related to nonpayment of fines on a past serious traffic misdemeanor. There was even a realistic chance I could spend at least a short stint of time in the pokey. I spent a day in one after the arrest, and it was the scariest day of my life. Believe it or not, I actually have gone back to church because I believe it was my turning to God in that jail that got me out of there.

For the past month, I have feared that this skeleton from the past would harpoon my new job, and send back to the running-in-place lifestyle I was living before, a way I no longer want to live. This has been hanging over me, like a hammer head waiting to fall on a nail. It has been a struggle, and I spent much time praying to God about it, asking Him to give me the strength to withstand this trial and move forward.

I wasn't alone with God, though--there was another. This wonderful young woman I work with, who is very religious and is the most positive person I have ever met. She helped me a lot, talking with me both in person and on the phone to help me through it. She kept my secret from everyone, one I gave to her (and few others) because I knew I could trust her and I wanted to be honest with her.

Well, today was Judgement Day (ironically, on Good Friday). She told me to be strong and believe everything would be okay. I tried my best to follow that advice, although I was very anxious all morning until my appointed time. And you wouldn't believe it--the judge is a good-natured guy who knows my lawyer well. He came in with a smile, and every time I expected a stern lecture or hard lessons for my failure to pay or abide by the laws of my past punishment, I instead was treated with a matter-of-fact "oh, just a warrant file" behavior. Not only did the judge not ask me to serve any time in jail, he didn't even ask me to apologize for not paying. He accepted my check for the remaining amount and pretty much sent me on my way--not even adding any additional fines (which I had pretty much assumed, really).

It was truly amazing. My lawyer said he was essentially the best judge I could have gotten today. I first and foremost thanked God, for I know it was His guidance that led me through this. But that young woman has never been far from my thoughts in this, either. And, really, it has been that way for some time.

So here's the crux of the situation...

I have never been truly in love (I don't think), so I don't really know what that is. But I know I care more for making her day happy than anything else I do on a daily basis. And I have struggled with whether I should tell her any of this, because, as usual, there are complications (aren't there always?).

Here are some of them:

1) She is almost 24, and I am 32. I know age isn't so consequential a matter anymore, but is that too big a gap? We certainly seem to have a chemistry with one another that goes beyond age differences.

2) We work together. Big bad problem there, I would think. In fact, we work very closely together, and she says she has come to really depend me at work. So I am not likely to be leaving her side any time soon from a work standpoint.

3) She is in the midst of considering going back to an old boyfriend whom has remained a close friend of hers throughout a bad relationship that ended in a broken off engagement last year (the ex-fiancee is a different guy entirely). She spends a lot of time with this old boyfriend, and she feels very comfortable with him. They have known each other for five years, and she knows he still wants to be with her. Even her family loves the guy, and only feels comfortable when he's around her. The only thing holding it back is her, really, as she deals with personal issues arising from her failed engagement last year.

I am in that horrible role of a guy who has come along and become a "true friend and confidante". It is at the same time so thrilling to play that role, but also crushing to hear her talk about these things. And yet I push to know (how can I not?).

I even told her just last night that she should give going back to him serious consideration and give it a good shot. I decided I only want her to be happy, and I believe that if it's God's will for us to be together, perhaps down the road that may come to pass. But right now, it's this old boyfriend that seems to be the target, and darn it all to heck, he sounds like a great guy, too, who would basically do anything for her (he loves sports, hope he doesn't love text sims ;) ).

I felt if I told her otherwise, advised her to walk away from him, that I would be being dishonest because in reality I would be trying to steer her towards me, which I don't even know if it is a possibility (we have never talked about "us", at least not as romantic possibilities). I didn't feel that was the right thing to do, even if it was killing me not to do it.

So call me a pussy, a wimp, whatever. I know I have fallen in the trap. I don't really care. When you love being around someone, who really cares what anyone else thinks, right?

So I am not sure what to do. Should I be patient and wait things out, see how things go with her and her old boyfriend (but probably just killing me all along)? Do I come out with how I feel to see how that might affect her decisions (and risk problems at work, weirdness perhaps, and of course, the almighty straight rejection possibility)? Do I try to move on and forget her, even though I work with her every day (but how can I remove myself from her as a friend--my abandonment of her would be strongly noticed and felt, I am sure)?

Is this just another stupid crush, or is it something more? I don't have any idea. If any of you (guys or girls) have any advice, I would welcome it.

Thank you.

Chief Rum

[MrBug708]

Havent seen a good long Chief Rum post in a while

*pats back*

I'd have some good advice for ya, but I dont seem to listen to good advice much these days myself...

[MrBug708]

Dola

Hooking up at work is a baaaaaaaaad idea. Believe me....

[Swaggs]

Hmmm. I just went to Barnes and Noble and bought a novel, but I think I'll read Chief's post first.

[WSUCougar]

Congrats on the positives that you've mentioned in the story. Good news to hear.

As to the potential relationship, I doubt this is what you'll want to hear, but this has all the ear-markings of a no-win scenario. You've been propped up by this woman durting a trying emotional time, so that weighs heavily (I imagine) in terms of your feelings. You've also added a religious awakening of sorts to the mix, of which she is also an advocate. Toss in a dash of old boyfriend, and you've got a potent brew.

My advice would be to steer clear of this one. You will only get disheartened.

[Chief Rum]

I know, Coug, and that's what my rational mind says. I believe it's deeper than what she has done for me, but really with who she is. She's really the first woman I can remember feeling anything like this about because of her personality more than her looks. Not that she ain't a hottie, but you get the point.

Soemtimes, though, I wonder if I just follow my rational mind too much. I clam up when it's time to step up. Clamming up is a symbol of what I was doing before this recent turn in my life. Is it the wise thing to do, or just returning to being scared of the consequences, unwilling to take the chance? And is that really the way I want to live my life here on forward?

Lots of philosophical crap goes through my head in times like these.

[WSUCougar]

To quote Han Solo, "Well that's the real trick, isn't it? And it's gonna cost you something extra."

Taking risks was how I ended up meeting my soul mate and marrying her. But I think the trick is to go in with your eyes open. Don't assume anything. Say "what the f*ck" like Joel in Risky Business, but accept that it's not necessarily going to go the way you want it. Fearing that potentiality was always what held me back.

[Dr. Sak]

Matt,

I have to agree with what WSUCougar says up front but after reading your lastest reply my opnion seems to waiver a little. If you really feel that this person is as great as you say she is than I think you should fight for her. I'm not sure I am the best person to give advice on this but I'll let you hear my side.

I had a few situations like this in the past where I was that "guy" for a girl that just got out of a relationship. I would listen to them, comfort them, and tell them that there is someone else out there for them. At the same time, I was falling for her. The a few months later they would find a guy and he would do the same thing that the last guy did, this happened for a few times until they either found "the one" or I got fed up with being hurt each time. From my limited experience with women, you have to be blunt with them about your feelings. This woman might just see you as a friend, even though you might be giving signals to her that you like her more.

I wouldn't step in the way of her getting back with her boyfriend and you are doing the right thing by giving her good advice on him. Because you do not want to come off as a guy that just told her a load of BS to get with her. I am not totally sure how you would go about doing this or even where but you should tell her how you feel. I wouldnt go into the "love" feelings just yet but I would say something like, "After spending all this time together I have realized what a great person you are and if you would think it is a good idea maybe we could go out on a few dates to see if there is anything more between us." I dont know exactly what you say but you can get my drift.

I am still young (sorta) but there are a few I have figured out, in my mind at least. You dont want to look back 5 years from now and kick yourself for an opportunity lost. You dont have to tell her that you are head over heels in love with her but if you just send out a little vibe, you should get a response. If she doesnt think it is a good idea, well at least you tried and you can live with no regrets on your end. There might be a little akwardness for a week but it should subside.

I dont want to even touch the part about it being at a work place but I will leave you with this little stat, most people only spend about 4 or 5 yrs at a job before moving to a new one :D . Hope this helps a little and good luck.

Sak

[kcchief19]

I'm with Cougar on the good news. I'm glad things are working out for you. It sounds like good things are happening and I hope this lead to better results and decisions in the future.

As for the young woman in your life, here is my feeble-minded thoughts: :)

1) The age is not a problem. It's a matter of maturity, experiences and intangibles. My better half is 9 years older than I am -- I was 24 when we began dating and she was 33.

2) Working together is a big problem. Nancy and I met working together, but we didn't pursue a relationship until after I left for a new job. There are ways it will work out OK, but the chances of disaster make this a risky proposition. I would lean towards remaining friends but leave it at that while you work together.

3) The other guy is the biggest concern of all. If this woman is giving you signals that she might want to be more than friends, she is clearly confused because she is choosing between two guys. In some situations, if you really love her, I'm fine with sticking in there and seeing how it goes. In your case, I think it's a bad idea. You've turned a corner, but you're got a lot of things still going on in your life and you're confused too. Emotionally investing yourself in a woman who is also confused can only add to the drama in your life. Not to mention that the comfort that you are finding right now in here may be due in some part to your situation. Before you rush forward, it's important to get some perspective and see how you feel about her when she is not holding you up through a rough time. You may find your feelings are stemming from a bunker mentality, any port in a storm if you will.

As for the love, I'm sure everyone is different. Long story short, but among the "things I know for sure" are that the times I have been in love I've know it for sure. If you're not sure, my guess is that it's something else; it might not be just a "crush," but it may be that your transferring your feelings to the relationship.

If she is someone you like and enjoy spending time with, there is no harm in just being friends. Don't try to be her boyfriend right now. Just be a friend. If you're never more than friends, time will not change that. I know plenty of people who will say that if you are friends too long you will never be more than that. I disagree. If it's meant to be, it will be.

Good luck, Matt. Hang in there and keep on truckin'! And if you want to abandon your playoff hopes and trade me Kenneth Webb or Darron Stayton, I'll be there for you too.

[Karlifornia]

No matter how much you tell yourself "I am going to accept not having a more intimate relationship with her", as long as you have feelings, your brain will ignore this rationalization. Just fight through it, and you'll end up with a rewarding friendship at worst. The bright side is that, if you have never been in love, you don't know what you're missing.

[CamEdwards]

hey Chief, this is going to sound flippant but it's not. Have you prayed about this?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Chief,

Congrats on the good news and good fortune.

Just a bit of quick advice, which will echo some of what has already been said.

1. Like the others have said, the age difference is no issue. I know plenty of folks who have had great relationships with a much larger age gap. Remember, a good rule of thumb is half your age plus seven years (within legal limits of course). So, at 32, you're good to go down to 23 (32/2 + 7 = 23).

2. As for the work thing. This can be dangerous, but is not a deal killer. I work at a law firm that demands a ton of people's time. I know of many couples who met here, worked together, and are now happily married. I am one of those people. Me and the wife met while working together, she then moved to Brussels and we worked in the same office (again often together) and got married. It's worked wonders.

3. Like kcchief said, the other guy is the biggest problem. Sounds like a tough spot, full of complications and unresolved feelings. Never good.

That's all I got for the time being. Good luck and I hope it works out for ya.

[Chief Rum]

Thanks, guys, these sort of posts will help me a lot as I consider what I want to do. Keep them coming. :)

As for the "love" thing, don't worry, it would never enter my mind to say something like that to her until I felt it was time. As I said, I don't even know if it's love. I would wait until I was sure. That doesn't mean I won't tell her how I feel, though, and that's the tricky part at the moment.

Cam, that's not a flippant response at all, but in fact very relevant. Yes, I have prayed about this. I ask God for guidance, and also for the strength to deal with my emotions without hurting her. And I ask Him to bring her happiness, in whatever form it may come. And I ask Him to help me make the right decisions. It helps a lot, but it doesn't always. Sometimes I feel settled and content that I have communed with God on this, and willing to wait and see how things come out. Other times, all I can think about is that I don't like not knowing what's going to happen, and getting that sick feeling that it won't turn it right. But mostly I feel like there is an opportunity here somewhere, but it may be that it can only come in a certain way and at the exact right time--or it won't work out. And trying to match that timing is just immensely difficult.

[Eaglesfan27]

I think there is tons of good advice already. I agree that the age thing is not a problem, and I really like HB's formula. My wife is quite a few years younger than me, and that has never been an issue.

As far as work, that would be a big concern for me just because if she rejected me or we went out and it ended badly, I would hate seeing her every day as it would just torture myself.

I think the biggest obstacle is this guy. From what you say, he sounds like a huge obstacle. She has a great deal of history with him. She is already considering going back to him, and it seems like she likely has some unresolved feelings for him. That is the reason I would steer clear of this situation. However, as others have pointed out, it seems like you have some very strong feelings for her. They might be worth fighting for, but as others have said, you should make sure if you do that, you are aware of all of the potential problems.

I also would recommend listening to Cam's advice and trying to pray on the matter.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Buccaneer]

Matt, I am very encouraged to hear how our Lord is working in your life. I, unfortunately, do not have any advice on your relationship except to pray and seek God's wisdom. The Holy Spirit will give you the peace on which way to go. In general, I can also offer the words of the Psalmist: "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord; trust in him and he will do this: he will make your righteousness shine like the dawn." (Ps. 37:4-5)

[Solecismic]

I don't know. From what you say, I think you should go for it, in as non-threatening a manner as possible. If she says she just thinks of you as a friend, accept it as done and don't ever complain about it.

The way you're going, you're just going to WCHB about this forever otherwise.

Obviously, I'm not much for looking for answers in prayer. The only answer that matters is one you reach through careful deliberation and understanding.

[oliegirl]

I would definitely say don't get involved with her when you are working so closely with her. I agree with kcchief's advice about being her friend. Let your life calm down and get it where you want it to be, and then after 6 months or a year, revisit the situation and see if you still feel the same way. If you do, then you will at least have some time in at this job and could possibly transfer to another department so you are at least not working directly with each other every day, or start interviewing at other companies if you think it's worth it to pursue a relationship with her. But with your life at the point it is right now, you need to find your place in the world before you try to find your true love.

Congrats on everything working out!

[Grid Iron]

I say go for it.

What's the worst case scenario? She says she doesn't feel the same way toward you. You'll live and move on without any "what if" regret. Sure, your ego might be bruised and your heart might ache for a bit, but that is a part of everyone's life.

In addition, you might as well get the heartache over quickly (assuming she doesn't feel the same toward you) rather than drag it out over months or a year or more if she goes back to her boyfriend.

Also, if you have these lingering feelings for her, it may prevent you from moving on to a relationship does work out.

Not to sound trite, but church is a great place to meet women. If you keeping pining for this gal, you might miss something more special.

To quote Ferris Bueller: "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in awhile, you could miss it."

Don't miss this opportunity.

[Travis]

Aw come on, we all know the rule is 1/2 your age + 8? Just not right for a 20 year old to be dating a 17 year old ;)

Well, that's the Canadian rule of thumb anyways.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Worst case scenario? Well there are several...

1. You go for it. She is feeling you too. You're happy with your new-found faith, but not into spending all day on Sunday in church and several other nights a week in bible study. To her, you only were after the drawers. You split and still have to work together. Your job is now hell.

2. You go for it. She isn't into you. In fact, she is very offended. Sexual herassment.

3. You go for it. She isn't into you. In fact, she is very offended. Her ex that she just got back together with is a biker.

4. You don't go for it. You spend day and night frantically masterbating to the idea of being with her. Your hands become very smooth and uncallused, and you develop forarms like Popeye the Sailor Man.

Workplace relationships are a bad idea. There is a reason that the term Don't shit where you eat. is so popular. It is easy to develop a crush on someone you work with, but is a disaster if it doesn't work out. Considering that you would spend a LOT of time together it is a bad idea. The fact that you know her personal life is a mess makes this even worse... Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it.

[Swaggs]

I don't know. From what you say, I think you should go for it, in as non-threatening a manner as possible. If she says she just thinks of you as a friend, accept it as done and don't ever complain about it.

The way you're going, you're just going to WCHB about this forever otherwise.

Obviously, I'm not much for looking for answers in prayer. The only answer that matters is one you reach through careful deliberation and understanding.

I'm with Jim.

Go out on a limb a little bit and put yourself out there. Don't come into the office with your pants around your ankles, but try something subtle. Talk about a movie and see if she would like to see it on a Saturday afternoon or see if she would like to "grab" something to eat with you after work sometime. Give yourself the opportunity. Sometimes really good people can miss each other and a great opportunity because they are both too afraid of the worse-case outcome.

[judicial clerk]

I think you should ask her out in a non-threatening way, but I want you to do something else first.

It is apparent that you are comming out of your shell, and I congratulate you for that. My guess is that you do not have a lot of contact with women who you might consider dating. I think you should put yourself out there. Put yourself into situations where you can mix and mingle with some ladies and maybe find a few who you could imagine going out on a date with. Maybe even ask them out. I think doing this will increase your self confidence, give you a new perspective on the girl at work, and release a little of the pressure you may be feeling about this girl.

I am guessing that right now this girl is the end all be all to you, and after interacting with some other nice girls you will see that that girl at work is probably still great, but there are other great people out there as well, and those other great people might just have an eye for ol' CR.

Then, I would go ask out the work girl if you still want to.

[Karim]

WCHB?

[Travis]

What could have been?

[CamEdwards]

BTW, Chief, my wife is 39 and I'm 30. I think 8 years is all right. We were 31 and 22, respectively, when we met.

[Dutch]

I agree with Jim as well. Is it the smartest move? Probably not. Is it the wisest move? Probably not. Will you regret it for the rest of your life if you don't stand up and walk the walk and see how it goes? Yes.

You gotta see what happens and if she turns out to be all wrong for you, well, at least then you will know for sure. But you have to be tough and accept the possibility of failure. Failure happens to us all, but only if we try.

[Chief Rum]

This is terrific stuff, guys. I really appreciate it. It's so funny to see such a wide range of approaches, from go-for-it to be-careful, from religious to rational-realist (don't mistake that for religion equating nonrational-fantasizing; I just don't know how to bets term the nonreligious-based thinking).

You have all given me much to think about. I think there is a lot of value in seeking to find myself a little more, establish myself better, before I get into something like this. I am definitely in transition, and this is almost certainly not the right time to get into a relationship.

I still don't know what I will do, but the default is nothing but remain her friend, and that's something I can do for a little bit and still not force myself into a decision or situation I need to deal with.

I am very concerned about the work thing, because I don't know how we will act around one another if it doesn't happen. I have read some articles recently that dispute the "work plus love equals bad" theory that is so common, and I have seen relationships work out. HB's is a terrific example. But I have also seen it go bad, and I know there is basic truth in this theory.

Of course, I am also very concerned about the ex-boyfriend, but what can I do? All I can do is be there as her friend for her. I will respect whatever decisions she makes. I just sometimes wonder if I shouldn't at least let her see what's on the shelf before she takes her purchase up to the checkout counter. ;)

I am foraging for others at the moment, FWIW. I have a couple of those online profiles up (anyone had any success with those?), and have my eye on one or two other girls I know. None of them have ever meant as much as this one does, though, so it's dead on to say that these feelings can get in the way of other relationships.

Once I get the car situation figured out, I won't be so rooted to hearth and home, and that figures to help as well. I haven't really begun to explore the options of checking out the girls in my church community yet, but that has always been my intent.

I have done something that might get me screamed at here: I ordered flowers for her on Monday. Now before you take my head off, I have a legit reason-- they're friendship flowers, a mixed bouquet, as thanks for how she helped me out with dealing with my trial. I made sure there was no hint of "love" in them (I did all this before I posted this thread, BTW). My message was simply to say how much her friendship and support meant to me, and that I would alwys be prepared to do the same (I made it more flowery than that, but you get the point).

I also set it up so that I will take her down to the receptionist area at the desk to accept the flowers, so I don't have some obvious flower delivery guy seeking her out in the middle of the work place. We often have bouquets of flowers around in our office for one reason or another, so it shouldn't look to out of place when she gets one.

I felt it was appropriate to give a gift of thanks for what she did for me, so I hope that works for you guys as well.

This should be fun. I can update you all on how messed up this stuff is on a weekly basis (LMAO).

CR

[Chief Rum]

I don't know. From what you say, I think you should go for it, in as non-threatening a manner as possible. If she says she just thinks of you as a friend, accept it as done and don't ever complain about it.

The way you're going, you're just going to WCHB about this forever otherwise.

Obviously, I'm not much for looking for answers in prayer. The only answer that matters is one you reach through careful deliberation and understanding.

Yeah, I also am curious about WCHB, although the context suggests "regret" is the meaning, right? :) Thanks, Jim.


"Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord; trust in him and he will do this: he will make your righteousness shine like the dawn." (Ps. 37:4-5)

Wow, that's a terrific verse, Steve. Thanks so much for that. I feel like I am learning something new every time I open the Bible. I still hold to the "realistic" point of view on the Bible that I have always held, that it is mostly not meant to be literal. But the life lessons one can take from it are endless.

I guess you could say I am one of those strange dichotomies of believing in The Bible's message, and yet I still believe the world came to be as a molten ball of lava 6 trillion years ago or whatever it was. ;)

But it's not my point to start Creation-Evolution debates. If you guys want to debate that (again), get your own thread. :D

CR

[Buccaneer]

I guess you could say I am one of those strange dichotomies of believing in The Bible's message, and yet I still believe the world came to be as a molten ball of lava 6 trillion years ago or whatever it was. ;)

Not strange at all; in fact, many believers fall into that category - me included. It used be called Theistic Evolutionist back in my days but I guess they have a different term for it now (Intelligent Design?).

Please, didn't mean to get get off on a tangent but I just wanted to support your statement as not being strange at all.

Back on topic, I just got done with another round of Sexual Harassment training at work and it just re-enforced my belief that co-worker relationships, while not illegal, definitely are discouraged. But then again, I work in a more public company. Fwiw.

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't mean to take this thread off into a new tangent, but I'm with you and Bucc in believing in this theory as well.

[Swaggs]

Anyone else get a funny visual when they think about the poor flower lady trying to get Chief's message on one of those tiny cards? :)

[Chief Rum]

Anyone else get a funny visual when they think about the poor flower lady trying to get Chief's message on one of those tiny cards? :)

LMAO...We actually did reach the end of the card before I got my message on there. So I had to adjust the message a bit.

So much left unsaid... :D

CR

[Chief Rum]

Back on topic, I just got done with another round of Sexual Harassment training at work and it just re-enforced my belief that co-worker relationships, while not illegal, definitely are discouraged. But then again, I work in a more public company. Fwiw.

I work for First American Title, a Fortune 500 company in title insurance. I don't know how public that would be looked at in this situation. But I am certain I will learn on Monday, my first official hire date (strange to have worked there for three months, and yet that's my "official" first day). They will likely give me literature on all sorts of stuff, including an employee handbook that no doubt goes on endlessly about the dangers of sexual harrassment.

CR

[Chubby]

Chief - I wish I had different advice but... you're fucked. And not in a good way :( You're in the "friend zone" which is where you DON'T want to be (in this situation at least). I wish you all the luck in the world, I fear you're going to need it.

[sabotai]

From how I see this, it can only end badly. Has she made any indication that she wants to get back with her ex or was that more of a "I think, but she hasn't implied it" type of feeling you had?

I'd be most concearned about her remaining close friends with her ex. Even if you do get together....are you the jealous type? Even a little? How do you think you'd react if you were with them and somehow one of them talks about the sex they've had?

[vtbub]

The other guy thing isn't good for your immediate prospects. She'd be on the rebound, and from reading through this, does not appear to be what you need.

The age thing is okay, some women feel much more comfortable with older men.

I met Sarah at work. Good things can come from employment. We have been together nine years, and were friends before that.

Hold on to what makes you strong on the inside. It looks like from here that she's looking for a brother. Coffee and group movie outings look to be your best bet. If she wants to go further, she'll let you know in her little certain way.

You need to take risks in order to get rewards, is she worth the risk?

Glad you are doing well :)

[Chief Rum]

She has made indications...because I asked her more or less. She admitted she was thinking about it. This was just the other night.

That's all I feel comfortable responding to. The reasons behind that, the jealousy/sex thing, etc., I don't want to respond to because I feel I would be violating too much of her confidentiality to talk about it here. Let's just say I don't believe that will be a concern, nor do I think she will enter a relationship without giving some serious thought to it.

[sabotai]

Well I wasn't asking anything about her. I'm just saying if you are thinking about getting involved with someone who is close to her ex, you should think about how you might feel/react on the nights she chooses to hang out with him instead of you or how you would feel/react when you are with the both of them.

[Chief Rum]

The other guy thing isn't good for your immediate prospects. She'd be on the rebound, and from reading through this, does not appear to be what you need.

The age thing is okay, some women feel much more comfortable with older men.

I met Sarah at work. Good things can come from employment. We have been together nine years, and were friends before that.

Hold on to what makes you strong on the inside. It looks like from here that she's looking for a brother. Coffee and group movie outings look to be your best bet. If she wants to go further, she'll let you know in her little certain way.

You need to take risks in order to get rewards, is she worth the risk?

Glad you are doing well :)

She has two brothers. :)

I agree this is looking more like a wait-and-see, but I have to be careful that I can gradually pull back, so I can safely consider other relationships without comparing her to them (if that's possible).

Is she worth the risk? You have to take my words with a grain of salt, because of the obvious bias position from which I speak, but she makes me feel different than any other girl ever has yet. As I said before, I regard her as a truly unique individual--she is the epitome of positivity and support, always laughing and smiling, and being kind. I know I haven't ever met anyone with her outlook on life, and it's very refreshing.

[vtbub]

She has two brothers. :)

I agree this is looking more like a wait-and-see, but I have to be careful that I can gradually pull back, so I can safely consider other relationships without comparing her to them (if that's possible).

Is she worth the risk? You have to take my words with a grain of salt, because of the obvious bias position from which I speak, but she makes me feel different than any other girl ever has yet. As I said before, I regard her as a truly unique individual--she is the epitome of positivity and support, always laughing and smiling, and being kind. I know I haven't ever met anyone with her outlook on life, and it's very refreshing.

I married the girl who made me feel that way.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, not to let it got lost in here, but does anyone think I overstepped my bounds with the flowers? I think it will be fun (partly because I think most people at work probably already think I like her, and may suspect she likes me, since we get along so well; that chemistry thing, I guess), and I have made the intentions clear, but you just never know for sure.

[sabotai]

BTW, not to let it got lost in here, but does anyone think I overstepped my bounds with the flowers?

Actually, I think that was quite smooth of you. You made it clear they are "friendship flowers" and now you get to kind of stand back and gauge her response. Since they are clearly friendship flowers, she'll probably like them and think it perfectly fine if she thinks of you as just a friend. If she wants more, this might get her to think this is the first step and she might just make her intentions clear to you.

Smooth.

[sachmo71]

Congrats on the positives that you've mentioned in the story. Good news to hear.

As to the potential relationship, I doubt this is what you'll want to hear, but this has all the ear-markings of a no-win scenario. You've been propped up by this woman durting a trying emotional time, so that weighs heavily (I imagine) in terms of your feelings. You've also added a religious awakening of sorts to the mix, of which she is also an advocate. Toss in a dash of old boyfriend, and you've got a potent brew.

My advice would be to steer clear of this one. You will only get disheartened.


Matt,

You know I love you, and I wish I had something wonderful and intelligent to say, but Coug pretty much said everything I was thinking. Definately wait for a while and make sure that what you are feeling is the real deal, because if so, there are going to be major life changes that will need to be made to accomidate this relationship.

[Chief Rum]

Well I wasn't asking anything about her. I'm just saying if you are thinking about getting involved with someone who is close to her ex, you should think about how you might feel/react on the nights she chooses to hang out with him instead of you or how you would feel/react when you are with the both of them.

I missed this somehow. This I can talk about.

And the truth is, I don't know. I haven't hung out with both of them yet, although she has already said she plans for me to meet him. Sometimes I wonder how much she mentions me to him. I suppose I will find out when I meet him.

As for the jealousy thing, really, I can't say I am perfect there, but I also believe that is something I was, that I think now I can get past. I believe jealousy at its source is the product of doubt in the relationship. It isn't the problem, just an indication of some deepr insecurity that should be explored.

Will I approach it so analytically when it hits? I don't know. I hope so.

CR

[Chief Rum]

Matt,

You know I love you, and I wish I had something wonderful and intelligent to say, but Coug pretty much said everything I was thinking. Definately wait for a while and make sure that what you are feeling is the real deal, because if so, there are going to be major life changes that will need to be made to accomidate this relationship.

Thanks, Chris. I believe Coug's advice is sound, and is the way I am leaning. But I have found some value in pretty much every post in this thread, so I feel I must constantly re-evaluate.

As for the major life changes of a relationship, are you talking about allr elationships or this one specifically? My guess is you are referring to the working with her issue and the her devotion to God, and you are right that dealing with those would be major. But I have always felt that if you felt strongly enough, you do what it takes to make it work. So I am prepared to accept that, come what may.

I believe every major relationship is this way, to be honest.

CR

[stevew]

It hard sometime to go with girl that you like but you gotta try to see if you can be with her unless her boyfriend say that he want her to himself. If you asks god for help but he has no answer your better idea would be to move on. I knew somebody who was going to girl once that he work with and it was hard for them after he break up.

[Senator]

The other guy is the problem here.
I met my wife through work, but we didn't date until I left. It would have been a problem to date then.
What is strange is we both watched each other date other people and there were several instances when I feel like we would never have a chance to be together, but somehow, someway it did. Life works out funny that way.

In my experience, when "another guy" is constantly mentioned, let that play out before getting involved. Whatever feelings she has needs to be resolved before you can go down the path you would like to go.

[sabotai]

Well, one last bit of advise. Don't decide anything until you do meet this guy so you can see how they interact together. If she's more interested in getting back together with him than going out with you, she'll probably make it obvious when she's around the both of you (and he'll make his feelings 100% clear).

[Chief Rum]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I continue to welcome any other responses, but I will be away for the holiday weekend. So my apologies if I can't immediately get back to you. It's quite likely I won't be able to post again until Monday night. Have a Happy Easter.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

My bad experience with a work relationship came when I impregnated a coworker. It was a rebound relationship, and when I realized such, it was too late. I told nobody at work. As I sat down to lunch with another coworker one day, he throws out "So, I hear you knocked up _____." She said she hadn't told anybody. Unfortunatly, I had confided in the pastor of my church. He told his wife, who worked in another department (she got me the job.) Apparantly she was nice enough to spread gossip that had nothing to do with her. Anyway, I have a beautiful 12 year old now. And I won't go anywhere near an office relationship.

Also I have just watched two office relationships in my office blow up. Both have one party that has moved on, and the other acting like an idiot. It sucks.

[Solecismic]

Hope this doesn't wind up above the fold...

Matt, I don't like the idea of friendship flowers. There are alterior motives. There's a fine line between harassing behavior and indicating once that you like someone for more than friendship. You know that line, and you won't cross it.

She will respect you far more in the long run if you're direct. Don't pussy-foot around with ideas like this that technically could be correct, but aren't really what you mean.

She will be hurt if she thinks you feigned friendship just to try and get in her pants. You are also more likely to remain her friend, long-term, if you are direct. And if she shoots you down, don't whine about it, and tell her you value her friendship as well and won't bring it up again. "Oh, I'll get over it, life isn't a John Hughes movie, after all."

I've had this happen to me, in the reverse, and I was very insulted when all of a sudden I lost a friend because she had apparently harbored a crush for about a year, then couldn't handle it when I told her I didn't want to date her. All of a sudden, I lost a friend as well (I suppose it would have helped not having just broken up with a female friend of hers when she pounced).

Women do appreciate subtlety, but they appreciate honesty even more. Don't worry about the other guy. It's her decision. If you're honest with her, it will help her make the correct decision, whatever that may be.

[Chief Rum]

Jim, I see where you're coming from, and thanks for sharing your opinion there. And perhaps I am just being delusional, but so you know, I honestly feel I am sending these flowers for the right reasons. My real reason is because of how she helped me deal with this trial. It is to tell her how much I treasure her friendship.

I like to think I would do so no matter who helped me or how I actually felt about them. Obviously, I wouldn't send flowers to a guy (were my friend such), but you get the point. I honestly am not sending these to get in her pants--I have a heartfelt desire to express to her how much what she did meant to me, and that is all. I thought flowers were a nice touch (we're the kind of office that gives flowers for birthdays, for instance).

Basically, as I have revealed here, in the long term I may have another message. But that doesn't mean this one isn't also exactly what I want to say. The other message I will give to her when and if I can at the appropriate time.

You're talking to a guy who went and got a Valentine's Day card for a woman in the office who said she didn't have a Valentine, just because. And she was one I had no interest in whatsoever. I just sometimes do things like that for friends.

I am hoping that is exactly how the flowers come across, because that's really how I intend it.

[sachmo71]

Thanks, Chris. I believe Coug's advice is sound, and is the way I am leaning. But I have found some value in pretty much every post in this thread, so I feel I must constantly re-evaluate.

As for the major life changes of a relationship, are you talking about allr elationships or this one specifically? My guess is you are referring to the working with her issue and the her devotion to God, and you are right that dealing with those would be major. But I have always felt that if you felt strongly enough, you do what it takes to make it work. So I am prepared to accept that, come what may.

I believe every major relationship is this way, to be honest.

CR

Well, in all relationships there are trade offs, but you have to evaluate the trade off. If you know it's real, then it's hard to put a price on it. But if there are any doubts, I would make sure that I explored them fully before laying my cards on the table. Seems like you are going that direction anyway, so things should work out well. I'm hoping they do! :)

[Tekneek]

Unfortunatly, I had confided in the pastor of my church. He told his wife, who worked in another department (she got me the job.) Apparantly she was nice enough to spread gossip that had nothing to do with her.

Your Pastor and his wife spread this around? Isn't that some sort of ethical violation?

Now on to Chief Rum...all I can say is that I have let lots of those types of 'opportunities' get away from me in my life, but thankfully a couple times I felt I had to make a move, sink or swim, and take what is coming. The first time I reached that sort of point, I went on to have a 2.5 year relationship that was wonderful, although it ended quite badly (badly because of how I handled it, with lots of alcohol and public confrontations before I really realized it was over for good). The second time, I ended up in a relationship that is still going strong almost 9 years later (married for 5.5 years, son that is 4, and a baby on the way for October). My only point is that sometimes you've got to take the chance. You have to roll the dice. If she shoots that down, but remains friends...you haven't really lost anything, and she might think about it for a while and decide you're the one. If it blows up, then you've learned something that will help you going forward. Like anything else, you don't get better at this without practice...and you can't be afraid of being out if you want to get some hits too.

[paperstreetsoap]

I would definitely say don't get involved with her when you are working so closely with her. I agree with kcchief's advice about being her friend. Let your life calm down and get it where you want it to be, and then after 6 months or a year, revisit the situation and see if you still feel the same way. If you do, then you will at least have some time in at this job and could possibly transfer to another department so you are at least not working directly with each other every day, or start interviewing at other companies if you think it's worth it to pursue a relationship with her. But with your life at the point it is right now, you need to find your place in the world before you try to find your true love.

Congrats on everything working out!
6 months to a year? I fantasize, think, and have girls on my mind for the majority of my day. Asking Matt to put off one chick, who he is in contact with for a large part of his daily life, is quite a reach. http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif IMO.

[Chief Rum]

Hey guys,

I am back from my weekend trip to Arizona. It was nice to get away, and I was amazed how much seems to be going on out there.

But now I am back to the grind. I switched from delivered flowers to just flowers from the store (I will bring them in with me), in a vase with a card. Much cheaper, but probably more heartfelt and less likely to cause a scandal at work (I walk in before just about everyone, so they will be on her desk before too many people realize who brought them in ;) ).

As usual, getting away from it all always helps (although ask me all this again after spending a day with her again tomorrow). I still like her, think about her a lot and only wish she is happy, but I am more back to letting what comes what may.

I don't think I will be telling her soon, although the reason is because of the timing with her ex getting into the picture, and because of work, not because I am too riled up to do it. If things change/clear up, I might go for it, but I'm, not sure it's a good idea right now at all.

I always decided I am fine with however this works out and remaining her friend, but like I said above, ask me again tomorrow after I give her these flowers and spend that day working with her. :)

CR

[samifan24]

This sounds like an incredibly tough situation and I hope your news is "good" news tomorrow.I hope the flowers go over well. Good luck with everything!

[BishopMVP]

I'm in college, not a work environment, but absent that aspect I went through a similar situation a couple months ago. Some girl I met last fall who was breaking up with her boyfriend, hung out/talked with her a little then but more over the winter. Heard a lot about the ex-boyfriend and think I helped her there as a friend, getting her through that situation. She said things like she didn't want a boyfriend for a while, but kind of in a fuck the last guy way. I kind of liked her, but figured just be a friend all that. Unfortunately, as the weeks went by, I started to like her more to the point where I wasn't looking for other girls at all. So late one night she said something along the lines of "We always talk about me, what about you?" I tried deflecting it but we ended up in a long, really awkward (for me) conversation where I'd beat around the bush but avoid saying anything explicit. Felt like shit that night and thinking it over decided, even though the answer'd probably be no, I should just go for it. (There have been a few girls in the past I've really liked, but never told any of them, and always regretted it some.) So the next night I tried hanging out with her some, but she had something with a sorority so I went to a different party with friends. Ended up seeing her after I got back, and since we were alone in a room (and I was 8-10 deep I'd guess) figured then was as good a time as any. So I said it in about as direct a manner as possible, and it was basically a "That's sweet, but I just don't want a boyfriend right now." Any real deeper conversation at that point kind of was missed as other people came back in and I didn't feel like pushing the conversation. Felt great the next day, as there was no regret and I could just move on and not have her in the back of my mind. Talked to her about it a couple days later online and basically said, don't worry about it, still want to be friends. It's been over a month now I'd guess, from the friendship standpoint, we're still friends but she hasn't talked to me about her ex at all or anything along those lines, so I guess we're not as close there. Personally, it's been great. No wondering what could have been, or secretly hoping that she'd see what a good guy I am and jump into my arms. Last week, she hooked up with one of my other friends, and instead of being unhappy about it, or regretting that I didn't make any move I hope it works out between them.

I figured I'd lay that out there on its own instead of trying to relate it all back to your situation, since although comparable in some aspects, is only one situation and so I'd be basing anything I told you off that small a sample size. But, and I'm not sure how similar you'd be, the only thing that made the feelings go away was putting them out in the open. Willing them away wasn't working, but once they were out there it was up to her and I could live without any stress. It's clearly not the best situation, but there are possible worst-case scenarios either way. BigJohn pointed out some if you were rejected, but if you just hold the feelings inside what if she ends up with the ex-bf and you're there as a friend at least partly secretly hoping they fail. You'll probably feel like an asshole and it'll make things awkward around her. Or what if you end up in a situation with a different girl where it starts headed toward a relationship but you've still got unresolved feelings for this current girl? Again, you'll probably feel like an asshole because you'd be dishonest in that relationship. So, I mean it's up to you, but I say go for it. In a more tactful manner than I did, but at least enough to figure out for sure that she's not interested so you can move on in that regard if she's not interested. Maybe there's even a way to do that without her catching on. If it's meant to be, it will, but only if you stop holding yourself back. If it wasn't, might as well find out now. Allow your faith to guide you.

[Chief Rum]

I figure at least some of you are curious, so here's how everything went down.

I brought in the flowers and a card before she got into work. It was kinda funny because I had set the card far apart from the flowers, which I had tried to place "out of the way" (I knew where she tended to keep her paperwork and things, so I wanted to put it in a place where it wouldn't be in the way). So she didn't connect the card and flowers right away. She thanked me for the card, but I had to point out the flowers were from me as well, lol.

In any case, that wasn't exactly a Hallmark moment, but she definitely liked the flowers when she realized they weren't just left there by someone over the weekend (she actually said that's what she thought happened). She thanked me a couple more times throughout the day and made other comments that seemed to me that she was pretty pleased with the gift.

I still don't know how this will all end up, and I still believe she is making the decision to return to her ex, but it was a good day overall. We spent a lot of time joking around and making each other laugh (which is what we do when we're on a good role with each other).

When you're in the middle of dumb things like this, it's amazing the stuff you think about as mattering. For instance, she's not a "toucher", a girl who expresses herself too often by actually physically touching people (as opposed to the hugging types, which are guys' favorites ;) ). But she did spontaneously do a couple of those sort of things (scratched my back in passing, patted me on the knee, etc.), and I have seen more of this in the past couple weeks. It almost certainly means nothing-- maybe just more comfortable with me (not that we were distant two weeks ago), but when you like someone, stupid stuff like that, you notice it. So that went pretty well.

I am somewhere in the middle of where I was last night and Friday night. That is, I am still very interested, but still willing to let things play out with her ex, and comfortable that we may never get that chance.

I am planning to ask her to "hang out" tomorrow (meaning I will ask her tomorrow, for some date in the near future). We have talked about doing some things like golfing or watching my favorite movie (she hasn't seen it), so I figured I would ask her if she wanted to get together to do something like that.

I'm sure I sound just like some dumb puppy harping on the details, but that's the kind of thing you think about at times like these (as any guys here in this same situation will know).

CR

[Franklinnoble]

Dude... from the sounds of it, she's left the door open for you. I see plenty of subtle (and not-so-subtle) hints there... she's saying "you're a nice guy... you went out on a limb... I get it... and I'm cool with it." If she weren't interested, there'd be much awkwardness. But she's dropping hints like HA is dropping 5 year olds... that means, basically, she wants to ride your jock.

The Ladies' Man recommends you do it in the butt.

[JasonC23]

Don't keep us in suspense...what is your favorite movie??

[Suicane75]

Dude... from the sounds of it, she's left the door open for you. I see plenty of subtle (and not-so-subtle) hints there... she's saying "you're a nice guy... you went out on a limb... I get it... and I'm cool with it." If she weren't interested, there'd be much awkwardness. But she's dropping hints like HA is dropping 5 year olds... that means, basically, she wants to ride your jock.

The Ladies' Man recommends you do it in the butt.


I wouldn't be so sure. I think CR is taking the right approach. You can never tell with a girl, i'm sure we've all been in situations where we thought the signal was clear only to get cock blocked by reality.

[JasonC23]

Dude, just take her to McDonald's and explain how men are like McGriddles.

[Blackadar]

I'm with Jim (my gosh, did I really say that?) - don't pussyfoot around. Ask her out and tell you how you feel - or don't. Don't ask her to "hang out". My $.02...

[Chief Rum]

I'm with Jim (my gosh, did I really say that?) - don't pussyfoot around. Ask her out and tell you how you feel - or don't. Don't ask her to "hang out". My $.02...

Blackadar, I think if it was a girl I didn't work with, I would follow your advice. The work element makes it a lot more difficult to make that decision, though, you know? I want to do exactly what you and Jim are suggesting, but there is more at stake than whether I score or strike out.

BTW, my favorite movie is Shawshenk Redemption. When she told me she hadn't seen it, I think I made a face like Chevy Chase makes to that blonde chick at the end of Fletch when she says she doesn't like basketball. :D

I don't think it's time for the McGriddles approach yet. For one thing, she's a vegetarian. :)

I talked with her today about doing something together outside of work, and she said that would be fun. We're probably going to be talking more details tonight on the phone.

I'll let you guys know if anything comes of it. :)

[Ksyrup]

Dude, just take her to McDonald's and explain how men are like McGriddles.
...how men are like a McGriddles. :p

[Chief Rum]

Dude... from the sounds of it, she's left the door open for you. I see plenty of subtle (and not-so-subtle) hints there... she's saying "you're a nice guy... you went out on a limb... I get it... and I'm cool with it." If she weren't interested, there'd be much awkwardness. But she's dropping hints like HA is dropping 5 year olds... that means, basically, she wants to ride your jock.

The Ladies' Man recommends you do it in the butt.

LMAO...you see, now I have to decide if you're serious (and right) or if you wrote all that just to drop your signature line. :)

[sabotai]

For one thing, she's a vegetarian.

Ugh, oh geez....good luck with that one....

:D

(I couldn't imagine going out with a vegitarian. All the ones I have known in my life have been.....undateable)

[Chief Rum]

Ugh, oh geez....good luck with that one....

:D

(I couldn't imagine going out with a vegitarian. All the ones I have known in my life have been.....undateable)

I don't know I could have before, either, but she doesn't go nuts trying to call people eating meat around her, and has even made efforts to try and fix dinners with meat in them for past boyfriends. It's not like a "I can't believe you eat meat" stance, so much as a "I don't like meat, so I don't eat it, but you do what you want" stance. :)

I still limit my meat-eating when we lunch together, though.

I think I would go nuts, though, if she were Vegan. She loves eggs and cheese and other things like that, though, so no problems there.

[Swaggs]

I used to go out with a vegetarian. She was a cheap date.

[Chief Rum]

I used to go out with a vegetarian. She was a cheap date.

Happy Birthday, Swaggs. :)

[Archer219]

Read through all this. Good stuff if I do say so. A couple thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em:

- Understand that if you end up in a relationship with this girl and it doesn't work out for some reason, you two will not be the same friends you were before it started (if you are friends at all). You need to figure out if her presence in your life is important, and know that some people are just meant to brighten each other's days as friends and nothing more. I have a very good friend, Jenna, who makes me feel this way, but I'd never go further because what we have is important to me and I don't want to screw that up.

- How long has she been debating this ex-boyfriend thing? I've seen it used before as a ploy to attract other men by women, based on the theory that guys want what seems unattainable.

- Obviously you might not have a chance to do this, but I suggest spending some time away from her, where you don't see or talk to her everyday. A lot of people start getting feelings for people they work with just because they see them 40+ hours a week and are familiar with them. If you spend a week without talking to her and you still have those feelings, then you've got something.

- Good way to figure out your feelings: go on a date with someone else you're attracted to. If you miss this girl during that date, you've got strong feelings.

That's all I got for now. Congrats on everything, and good luck. I know this board helped me out about 3 years ago or so when I was going through some girl troubles, so hopefully something I said returned the favor.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Your Pastor and his wife spread this around? Isn't that some sort of ethical violation?
Yup. But that's minor in comparison to the him getting a church member to co-sign on a car loan, then never making a payment. He also borrowed the same guy's truck and blew the trans, then told the guy to get it out of his yard or he's have it towed. When another member asked him about it it almost resorted in fisticuffs. The church went under and he got a high ranking position with Promise Keepers.

I didn't mean to threadjack. So Rummy, any news???

[Solecismic]

My wife's a vegetarian. Never got in the way at all. The only unusual part of it is that we both usually cook dinner together, because we never eat exactly the same meal. She's not one of those veggie-lovers who whines if someone else has a steak and potatoes at the same table.

Trust me on this one, walking by and scratching your back is not normal friend behavior. It's an invitation. But if you continue to ignore it, you'll either offend her, or she'll start introducing you to her male friends - and I'm not talking poker buddies (more like pokehim buddies). Just play it smooth and unaggressive, but at some point for a brief moment, you'll need to take a bit of a chance.

[Chief Rum]

Read through all this. Good stuff if I do say so. A couple thoughts, take 'em or leave 'em:

- Understand that if you end up in a relationship with this girl and it doesn't work out for some reason, you two will not be the same friends you were before it started (if you are friends at all). You need to figure out if her presence in your life is important, and know that some people are just meant to brighten each other's days as friends and nothing more. I have a very good friend, Jenna, who makes me feel this way, but I'd never go further because what we have is important to me and I don't want to screw that up.

- How long has she been debating this ex-boyfriend thing? I've seen it used before as a ploy to attract other men by women, based on the theory that guys want what seems unattainable.

- Obviously you might not have a chance to do this, but I suggest spending some time away from her, where you don't see or talk to her everyday. A lot of people start getting feelings for people they work with just because they see them 40+ hours a week and are familiar with them. If you spend a week without talking to her and you still have those feelings, then you've got something.

- Good way to figure out your feelings: go on a date with someone else you're attracted to. If you miss this girl during that date, you've got strong feelings.

That's all I got for now. Congrats on everything, and good luck. I know this board helped me out about 3 years ago or so when I was going through some girl troubles, so hopefully something I said returned the favor.

Terrific read, Archer. There is a lot of good stuff in this thread, but Ihave to admit yours is one of the better ones I have read. I think there are a ton of good ideas here.

The friend thing is tough. I do care for her very much as a friend, but I have had other friends like this (guys and girls) with whom I have drifted apart, and I just still keep chugging along. As much as I like her as a friend, would I risk that for a relationship? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I would.

I don't think she's playing off the ex on me, although that's certainly a theory I can understand and see it being valid for many, if not most women, even. I just don't see it in her. Even before we were friends, she always talked about honesty, and she is an ardent Christian. She doesn't strike me as someone who plays games.

I definitely think getting away from her for a bit is a good idea, but as you noted, that's not really an option right now.

I'm working on getting another date or two, and testing that theory in the last paragraph. I'll tell you how that goes. :)

[Chief Rum]

Yup. But that's minor in comparison to the him getting a church member to co-sign on a car loan, then never making a payment. He also borrowed the same guy's truck and blew the trans, then told the guy to get it out of his yard or he's have it towed. When another member asked him about it it almost resorted in fisticuffs. The church went under and he got a high ranking position with Promise Keepers.

I didn't mean to threadjack. So Rummy, any news???

Nothing new to report. We were supposed to talk on the phone tonight, but a friend dropped in unannounced (on her). I thought it was a good sign that she thought to call me just to tell me we couldn't talk tonight (and, yes, I told her I liked that she did that, too).

I'll probably see if I can get something going on with an out-of-work get-together tomorrow.

[sabotai]

She loves eggs and cheese and other things like that, though, so no problems there.

Ah, a lover of eggs and cheese. Her coolness points have been restored. ;)

[Chief Rum]

My wife's a vegetarian. Never got in the way at all. The only unusual part of it is that we both usually cook dinner together, because we never eat exactly the same meal. She's not one of those veggie-lovers who whines if someone else has a steak and potatoes at the same table.

Trust me on this one, walking by and scratching your back is not normal friend behavior. It's an invitation. But if you continue to ignore it, you'll either offend her, or she'll start introducing you to her male friends - and I'm not talking poker buddies (more like pokehim buddies). Just play it smooth and unaggressive, but at some point for a brief moment, you'll need to take a bit of a chance.

Yeah, see that's the way I look at that, too, Jim. The fact that she hasn't shied away from touching me on occasion (despite not being really a touchy-feely person) does tell me she has good feelings for me. But she is in a confused spot right now, too, what with her ex (the longtime friend), and her ex-fiancee still around in some form or another. It wouldn't surprise me if she is having some of the same issues of wondering what to do, but perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part to even think she has thought of it that far.

I like to think that I am showing I am not ignoring it. I pay a lot of attention to her, and also touch her in return (hand on the shoulder or a brief hug, etc.). I definitely lean in close and invade the "personal space" when we're confiding with each other on something--not shying away from meeting her eyes or nothing. I do know I will have to take a risk--but I don't think the time is quite right. I'm just playing it by ear at this point.

Thanks for the "poke-him" laugh...will definitely need to avoid that. ;)

[Chief Rum]

Ah, a lover of eggs and cheese. Her coolness points have been restored. ;)

Yup, she hit on two big parts of my diet there. :D

[WSUCougar]

Just remember that she's a vegetarian when she says things like, "Wow, your cucumber looks delicious!"

[Noop]

Damn I am not sure but if your not a virgin and you want to bed this woman what is the problem? Showing your *ya know* doesn't work on older women? Damn I need a new method of getting girls for the future.



*I was kidding*

[Alf]

Dude... from the sounds of it, she's left the door open for you. I see plenty of subtle (and not-so-subtle) hints there... she's saying "you're a nice guy... you went out on a limb... I get it... and I'm cool with it." If she weren't interested, there'd be much awkwardness. But she's dropping hints like HA is dropping 5 year olds... that means, basically, she wants to ride your jock.

The Ladies' Man recommends you do it in the butt. Ah, finally. Where have you been these past few days ?

As for CR, a woman touching you, even in France, is a clear indication !

[sterlingice]

BTW, my favorite movie is Shawshenk Redemption. When she told me she hadn't seen it, I think I made a face like Chevy Chase makes to that blonde chick at the end of Fletch when she says she doesn't like basketball. :D
Any Fletch reference is a good one and you compounded it with Shawshank Redemption. That's beautiful *sheds a tear*

SI

[sterlingice]

- How long has she been debating this ex-boyfriend thing? I've seen it used before as a ploy to attract other men by women, based on the theory that guys want what seems unattainable.
This is the kind of thing that just makes me go "why are people so screwed in the head". For those of us in the oblivious faction of the world, we just don't get it :(

SI

[Flasch186]

My wife's a vegetarian. Never got in the way at all. The only unusual part of it is that we both usually cook dinner together, because we never eat exactly the same meal. She's not one of those veggie-lovers who whines if someone else has a steak and potatoes at the same table.

Trust me on this one, walking by and scratching your back is not normal friend behavior. It's an invitation. But if you continue to ignore it, you'll either offend her, or she'll start introducing you to her male friends - and I'm not talking poker buddies (more like pokehim buddies). Just play it smooth and unaggressive, but at some point for a brief moment, you'll need to take a bit of a chance.


DING DING DING DING we have a winner

I have had so many of theose WCHB moments in my life that finally about 8 years ago, along with deciding to try and never tell a lie, I also decided to not pussy foot around shit. I tell it like it is and if someone doesnt like it thats their problem SSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOO I'd say at some point you HAVE to take a chance, a well timed chance, but a chance none the less. RIGHT NOW, she could be on a message board at FOFG saying the same shit and yetserday she let everyone know, "He brought me flowers and a card thanking me for helping him." and while someone responds, "He likes you." someone else says, "Your in the friendship zone sister, go fuck your ex-boyfriend." SO she's probably in the same boat as you, confused. At some point you have to clear the air unless you need another friend.

[CraigSca]

God, I'm glad I'm married. I had forgotten how exciting and crappy (all at the same time) the early stages of a relationship are.

As far as the advice is concerned...I unfrotunately don't have much. I have had the touchy girl in the past tell me she just wanted to be friends (bleeh) but it's usally a damn good sign.

[sachmo71]

God, I'm glad I'm married. I had forgotten how exciting and crappy (all at the same time) the early stages of a relationship are.

As far as the advice is concerned...I unfrotunately don't have much. I have had the touchy girl in the past tell me she just wanted to be friends (bleeh) but it's usally a damn good sign.

Interesting point, but you seem to have a skewed perception of marriage. If you work at it, there can still be excitement. In fact, I could argue that some of these moments are better then "first date" moments.

[Chief Rum]

DING DING DING DING we have a winner

I have had so many of theose WCHB moments in my life that finally about 8 years ago, along with deciding to try and never tell a lie, I also decided to not pussy foot around shit. I tell it like it is and if someone doesnt like it thats their problem SSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOO I'd say at some point you HAVE to take a chance, a well timed chance, but a chance none the less. RIGHT NOW, she could be on a message board at FOFG saying the same shit and yetserday she let everyone know, "He brought me flowers and a card thanking me for helping him." and while someone responds, "He likes you." someone else says, "Your in the friendship zone sister, go fuck your ex-boyfriend." SO she's probably in the same boat as you, confused. At some point you have to clear the air unless you need another friend.

I agree completely, Flash. It would be funny if that scenario was going on (or not so funny, I suppose, if you know what I mean, for lost opportunities).

I think the key is timing right now, as you mentioned. The work dynamic makes timing even more important, of course. So right now, I think it's best I play it by ear and see how things go. I figure at some point, I will tell her, or I will fall out of it and move on. I just don't think I can (or would bother) to stay running in place on this one perpetually, you know?

Not to mention if I keep talking about things here, you guys will be getting on me to move forward or get out, so I have that motivation, too. ;)

[Chief Rum]

Update: nothing huge (trust me, I will say when something big happens), but an interesting day nonetheless.

Although we started off well enough, I sorta felt shut out at one point in the morning, and was wondering what was up with that. But I am pretty sure it's because she is in some pain from a back injury right now, and was also probably a bit sore from overdoing a visit to the tanning salon the night before.

I asked to take a break with her because she was leaving early for a doctor's appointment (so she wasn't taking a lunch), and that turned out to do the trick. We were more "back to normal" during the break, work pressure off, and an expected 10-15 minute break turned into like a half hour of just talking (mostly nonsese, but you get the point).

I finally did ask her about doing something outside of work (that is, and completed the task ;) ), and we are going to try and do something after work next week some time.

She also knows I have emailed a former co-worker of hers to ask out on a date, and she was curious about that, but I didn't feel the curiosity was more than as a friend (or she's a much better actor than I am).

Basically, I was mostly getting friend vibes today, but it goes that way from day to day sometimes.

[Franklinnoble]

I don't know... I get the distinct impression you're not being at all cocky...

[BishopMVP]

So, if y'all end up in a relationship and it gets serious enough, does FOFC get a shout-out in the proposal or wedding toast?

[sterlingice]

So, if y'all end up in a relationship and it gets serious enough, does FOFC get a shout-out in the proposal or wedding toast?
For the sake of CR, do you really want her knowing about this and then possibly finding the thread?

SI

[Swaggs]

Haven't enough women already infiltrated this site?

[Chief Rum]

lol...while I don't plan on introducing her to this site, I think it's a big enough part of my Internet life that it would be impossible for her to not know about it. Will I tell her about this thread? Doubt it, but we'll see how it goes. ;)

But that's thinking abit too far in the future, methinks. ;)

You know, for all the women infiltrating this site (as Swaggs noted), it's disappointing I haven't gotten more responses from the females. I think oliegirl is it. So hopefully I will get more feedback there.

FN, today I was much more cocky, and yet, still funny (judging by the reaction). :)

CR

[GoldenEagle]

Does anyone else get that song in their head when they see the thread title at the top of the board? You know, the one that goes "its just a little crush, its not like I faint everytime we touch." I am singing it outloud now. Thanks, CR.

[Eaglesfan27]

Does anyone else get that song in their head when they see the thread title at the top of the board? You know, the one that goes "its just a little crush, its not like I faint everytime we touch." I am singing it outloud now. Thanks, CR.

I didn't until you mentioned it. Thanks a lot.