USA v. Mexico (spoilers)

[Easy Mac]

Lets get it on baby

USA USA USA

[Easy Mac]

Very defensive lineup, i'm fine with playing for a point.

i think its (too fast for me to put it down while on the screen) in no order
Keller
Berhalter, Boca, Onyewu, Cerundolo
Mastroeni, Reyna, Lewis, Landon, DMB(?)
Johnson

[Crapshoot]

hmm - which channel is it on ?

[Easy Mac]

espn2

[Crapshoot]

they get pushed of the HD ESPN for women's basketball ? that's sad...

[WrongWay]

No commercials again????

I just do not get why everytime I watch a major USA soccer game it comes without commercials. If soccer is ever going to succede in the US they are goig to have to prove to TV executives that you can sale TV time.

No, TV revenue for commercials means no TV for soccer.

[Easy Mac]

thats why they have the signs in the top right corner.. when will they have commercials?

[Airhog]

Thats why I love watching Soccer. Cause you can sit through the whole 45 minute half, and know its only going to last maybe 50 minutes top!

[cartman]

That's the way they sell commericial time in Europe. There is a constant logo on the screen, or a small window that pops up. Since soccer doesn't have timeouts, you can't really take a commercial break.

[Easy Mac]

I never thought I'd see the day where someone complains about the lack of commercial breaks in a sporting event.

[WrongWay]

In this modern age of video editing it would be extremely easy to make up the time for commercials during play stoppages. Add enough of those out of bounds plays and you have a commercial or 2.

The last ABC broadcast was the same way; without commercials. It is just madating that the sport never go primetime or become a regular on a network.

[Easy Mac]

in the past 5 minutes there's been signs for Philips, gatorade, and the home depot. its a shame they can't get big sponsors.

Blanco is a little whiny bitch it seems.

[tanglewood]

The Ad boards are more than enough exposure for companies. They are actually there on the pitch. You can't ignore them if a player is taking a throw near one or something. You can't turn over the channel when they come up and flick back later trying to skip them.

Soccer is on during primetime without any commercial breaks in just about every country in world. Why should the US have to pump their coverage full of advertising to make it worthwhile?

[WrongWay]

in the past 5 minutes there's been signs for Philips, gatorade, and the home depot. its a shame they can't get big sponsors.

Baseball has the same exact signs behind home plate, yet you don't see anyone rushing to make a commercial free broadcast.

No time comercials means no this sport will never have air time.

[cartman]

Last time I checked, people watch sports for the competition, not for the commercial breaks.

If I were an advertiser, and I knew that 5 million people (for example) are watching, I think I'd rather have my name/logo up for 5 consecutive minutes, than a 30 second spot that most time people use that 30 seconds to go get a coke/beer or hit the head.

[Easy Mac]

Finally, Blanco gets a card.

[cartman]

Baseball has the same exact signs behind home plate, yet you don't see anyone rushing to make a commercial free broadcast.

No time comercials means no this sport will never have air time.

That's because there are breaks in baseball, between halves of an inning, or when there is a pitching change. Soccer doesn't have any breaks of similar length, except for halftime.

[Easy Mac]

well damn.

[PilotMan]

I have to agree on the Blanco comment. I have the match on ussoccer matchtracker and most of the mexican comments have to do with Blanco on some level.

[cartman]

Nothing Keller could do about that one.

Glad I didn't miss that due to a forced commercial break.

[Easy Mac]

He shouldn't have dove on the first header. He was in fine position until that. Onyewu was out of place though.

[Easy Mac]

shit

2-0

[cartman]

ouch, doesn't look like we'll be getting any points out of today's match

[Critch]

Couldn't do much about that one either.

Looking bad.

[Crapshoot]

2 goals - nicely done by mexico - what the hell as the US defense doing there ? classic longball tactics..

[Easy Mac]

where the fuck was the D?

[Easy Mac]

Did Beasley even touch him?

[Easy Mac]

They brought out the cart?

[Crapshoot]

stupid tackle by Beasley- high foot.

[moriarty]

Couple of thoughts:

Donovan looks off - completely missed several passes and seems slow to the ball on occasion (perhaps transfer rumours taking effect).

Thought Keller left his feet needlessly on the first goal. He might have had a shot at the header (goal) if he handn't dived into the net on a cross (?!).

Reyna looks gassed already. Just getting back from injury is making it tough.

[PilotMan]

beasley's out for wednesday's match now.

[Crapshoot]

why the hell did they send off the manager ?

[moriarty]

beasley's out for wednesday's match now.

Might be a good thing. Hopefully we can beat Guatemala without him and reset his cards.

[GoldenEagle]

What a poor effort for the US. That is the worse half I have seen in a long time for us. We have no offense at all. I do not know what Bruce was thinking with Beasley in the middle. He is not a playmaker. We are going to have to do something to generate some sort of chances.

Onyewu looks like he may be overmatched for this level. Is Cory Gibbs injured? What happened to Pope? The first goal was not entirely Onyewu' fault but you have to stay in front of your man at all times. The second goal was just pure laziness.You can not leave a man unmarked in the 18. There was no one within 10 yards of him. I could have finished that.

[Desnudo]

Couple of thoughts:

Donovan looks off - completely missed several passes and seems slow to the ball on occasion (perhaps transfer rumours taking effect).

Thought Keller left his feet needlessly on the first goal. He might have had a shot at the header (goal) if he handn't dived into the net on a cross (?!).

Reyna looks gassed already. Just getting back from injury is making it tough.

I wonder if Reyna was a good choice. Slow and old, coming back from injury... not exactly the person you want tracking back to cover runners. I feel he's been more of a negative than a positive for a few years now, at least.

Beasley playing in an AMC position is a bit odd too. Donovan would seem to be the more logical choice there.

Donovan missed Beasley wide open in the middle at the 6 when he took that shot at 3 defenders and the goalie.

Embarassing run/stumble by Keller into the back of the net on the first goal. Not that the goal was completely his fault, but an empty net is hard to miss.

[Desnudo]

What a poor effort for the US. That is the worse half I have seen in a long time for us. We have no offense at all. I do not know what Bruce was thinking with Beasley in the middle. He is not a playmaker. We are going to have to do something to generate some sort of chances.

Onyewu looks like he may be overmatched for this level. Is Cory Gibbs injured? What happened to Pope? The first goal was not entirely Onyewu' fault but you have to stay in front of your man at all times. The second goal was just pure laziness.You can not leave a man unmarked in the 18. There was no one within 10 yards of him. I could have finished that.

Pope is hurt. I agree about the performance.

[moriarty]

Onyewu looks like he may be overmatched for this level. Is Cory Gibbs injured? What happened to Pope? The first goal was not entirely Onyewu' fault but you have to stay in front of your man at all times. The second goal was just pure laziness.You can not leave a man unmarked in the 18. There was no one within 10 yards of him. I could have finished that.

I think Onyewu will be fine eventually but putting him in this game was a bit of a stretch. As loud as the Mexican fans get, you need someone back there who has played with the other CB enough to know where they're going to be when you can't hear the commands. (one of the commenters made this point which I agree with)

Pope is injured BTW.

Let's see if Arena puts some other folks up front now ... or if we just hold on for the 2-0, or if we're lucky, 2-1 loss.

[cartman]

Yep, we can't let them score again. Goal Differential is something they have to keep in mind.

[moriarty]

Donovan with another awful pass ... WTF?

[cartman]

yep, that was a nice shot

[moriarty]

Eddie Johnson shows alot of maturity for his age ... what a great dummy there.

[Crapshoot]

nice sequence there by the Americans..

[Desnudo]

It's never to early to second-guess and armchair QB. What would your lineup have been?

Mine:

GK: Howard (has been playing for Man U lately)
D: Same I guess, options out injured. Flat back four though.
CM: Anyone faster and in better shape than Reyna
CM: Mastroeni
AMR: Beasley
AML: Donovan (or vice versa)
FC: Ching (slightly behind Johnson)
FC: Johnson

I think US soccer has the talent now where playing negative tactics is counterproductive. Especially if your best talent is in the offensive half.

[cartman]

Eddie Johnson... GOOOAAALLL!!!

[Easy Mac]

Is our defensive depth so poor that we have to start Berhalter? he hasn't been good for 30 some odd years.

[moriarty]

I was just about to say Lewis hasn't done anything.

Good play by Johnson, Donovan screwed up, but made a nice patient recovery.

edit: Freakin' time stamp bug getting me today.

[Easy Mac]

Is our defensive depth so poor that we have to start Berhalter? he hasn't been good for 30 some odd years.

GOAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2-1

[Crapshoot]

nice goal- Johnson is looking good!

[Desnudo]

Nice finish!

[Easy Mac]

damn, close again.

[moriarty]

Is our defensive depth so poor that we have to start Berhalter? he hasn't been good for 30 some odd years.

Gibbs I believe is on the bench. W/ Pope out I figured Gibbs/Berhalter would start or maybe Gibbs/Boconegra in the middle and someone else on the left.

[moriarty]

Looks like Beasley in on the wide right now where he can use his speed. A much better position for him IMO.

Edit - until that sub, which looks like moves him back to the middle.

[weinstein7]

Quick observations:

Eddie Johnson has been the best player - or at least the key player - for the US today. All our chances have gone through him.

Onyewu hasn't looked very good. IIRC, he's been shaky in past MNT appearances as well.

[Crapshoot]

Johnson has impressed me - showing he's more than a pure goal poacher. I thought MLS was nuts to turn down 5 million for him, but he has impressed me with his on the ball skills and vision today.

[Crapshoot]

Keller is the only thing stopping a Mexican rampage here.. .

[weinstein7]

Am I the only one who HATES the offsides trap the US plays? They do it well, and I rarely see them get burned with it...but I just think it brings so much unnecessary risk. Not just of the players making a mistake, but one referee mistake can cost you a goal.

[Easy Mac]

man, mchead is fuckin slow

[weinstein7]

Geez, the Mexicans are really doing their best to keep this one going. I can't believe how many chances for a third goal they've missed.

[moriarty]

Onyewu hasn't looked very good. IIRC, he's been shaky in past MNT appearances as well.

He's like 23 and it's only his 3rd or 4th cap I believe ... so I haven't given up on him yet. It's hard not to like the 6'2 height and physical play in a CB.

Not his best performance today though ...

[Easy Mac]

The US has resigned themselves to an L. They aren't even trying.

[Desnudo]

McBride isn't the fastest guy I've seen.

[weinstein7]

Nuts.

Oh well, time for basketball.

I still don't see any way the US doesn't qualify, especially now that CONCACAF is up to 3.5 berths (ridiculous, in my view. I think 2.5 is fair, but I'm not complaining.)

[Easy Mac]

I'd have to say a pathetic showing by the US. A loss is a loss, but it should have been 4-1 at least. We never looked dangerous at all.

[moriarty]

Tough place to play, and we played with a defensive formation for most of the match.

Not a great performance, but it doesn't really hurt us. Need a good come back showing on Wednesday though w/out DMB.

[Desnudo]

Am I the only one who HATES the offsides trap the US plays? They do it well, and I rarely see them get burned with it...but I just think it brings so much unnecessary risk. Not just of the players making a mistake, but one referee mistake can cost you a goal.

As soon as the speedy Medina (fantastic winger in FM 05, btw) came on, that trap was worthless. Not that it worked all that great to strart.

[GoldenEagle]

I still can not believe that Bruce thinks we have to play this passive style of play anymore within CONCAF. We are good enough and have enough skilled players that we do not have to play that way. I thought we only put together two solid combination plays and both resulted in shots. That is what the US has to do. In the second half, the only offense Mexico could muster was down the right flank on the long ball. We have to take the game to our opponents now.

The reason MLS is keeping John around is that he is the future of American soccer. I think he will be as big as Donovan. He is African American and they are hoping that will get some support from that community. Dallas also has a new SSS and is looking for good turnouts.

[Desnudo]

As long as he keeps playing Reyna, that's what we'll get. I hate to keep harping on it, but it's time to move on with the team. Where was Ching today also, I wonder? He's been nothing but good so far, and has a good mental makeup.

[weinstein7]

GE: That's what the name of the game is in WC Qualifying. Win at home, tie on the road. Not to mention the difficulty of maintaining fitness for 90 minutes in Mexico City. As for Johnson, they let Beasley go, so I don't entirely buy the African American emerging star argument. I think they're just figuring that his value will increase as he gets more international exposure.

Of course, eventually they're going to have to start hanging on to players, so maybe Johnson will be one they decide to keep.

[Desnudo]

I kind of hope they do, and kind of hope they don't hold onto Johnson. He seems to have the skills and physical presence to play at a higher level. It would be nice to see a true striker from the US make it big in Europe.

[Easy Mac]

I think he got offers from Inter Milan and a few other places as a 16 year old, but he was happy to be in the US.

[GoldenEagle]

How old is Johnson? I think he turns 21 in a month or so. He should be playing in Europe by the age of 23. If I was MLS, I would hold on to him until after the World Cup. If he has a big showing over there, he could go for much than the $5-6mil offered. That will give you some time to build up the Dalls fan base and what not.

[weinstein7]

I think that's the plan. I hope it is anyway, since I agree with you 100%.

[Neuqua]

Everything I have read has suggested just that GE, the US believes that Johnson will have a very good showing at the World Cup next summer which will not only generate interest here in the States, but also drive his price up abroad.

[RPI-Fan]

Berhalter was piss-poor today. Onyewu, at least, was effective moving the ball into the midfield.

We'll see what kind of lineup Bruce plays on Wednesday - I don't think he wants to play Donovan wide (especially at home), so he'll slip Ralston on the right, and play a diamond in center with Mastroeni behind him. No clue about the defense, but possibly Onyewu and Bocanegra in center (Boca was badly missed in the middle today), and Gibbs out left? If he plays the diamond midfield, his fullbacks won't need to provide width, so Gibbs could be an option there.

We'll see, I guess -- should be a fun game to watch, though.

[Cringer]

So what, the U.S. is now 0-22-1 all time IN Mexico I think.....damn that's a rough record.

[GoldenEagle]

Anyone planning on going to the game on Wed.?

[JonInMiddleGA]

On the whole "commercials in the game" business from the first page ... a couple of thoughts come to mind for this ad buyer.

1) There's a certain risk of backlash against the sponsors if their spot caused a missed key moment. Minimal perhaps, but something that crossed my mind as a possible negative (and stuff like this is hard enough to sell w/out any possible negatives).
2) If there was any signifcant demand for spots in the game, trust me -- there'd be spots in the game. I dare say you'd be surprised at just how cheaply spots in low-rated programs on ESPN (or ESPN family) can be had. There's a reasonably good chance that those "banner ads" you saw today were given away as part of a larger overall buy, what they networks/stations like to call "value-added" ... and if they weren't given away entirely, they were priced down to nearly nothing just to avoid not having any ad content in the broadcast at all. (which is how most of the inventory I have running on ESPNews for my client right came to be included. They basically offered it at a price that even I, a notorious hardass on cost-efficiency, couldn't turn down.)

I ain't hating-on-soccer or anything, that's just the way I suspect things went on something like this, which I suspect has ratings somewhere in the range of the 2002 Ladies World Billiards Championship (which actually gets more competitive ratings than I bet you'd expect too).

[Mac Howard]

The antagonism isn't minimal. Until this season commercial tv stations here (Australia) showed the game with adverts almost every time the ball went out of play. It was appalling to watch - a goal is scored, the stadium's going wild .............. and we're watching a Pepsi commercial :mad:

Pepsi got the message! The adverts have gone but the games remain.

Commercial tv in Europe pours enormous amounts of money into soccer without tv coverage beng interrupted in this way. Pre-match, half-time and post match commercials are carried and I think the stadiums negotiate special deals for board advertising around the pitch for televised games. It works.

[tanglewood]

If a TV broadcaster showed commercials during a match in England or Spain there would be mass outrage. In Italy there would be riots in the streets.

[Mac Howard]

If a TV broadcaster showed commercials during a match in England or Spain there would be mass outrage. In Italy there would be riots in the streets.

I agree but I think it's a cultural thing. In Aussie Rules games here adverts are shown after every score (there are around 20 scores a game). I hate it - it destroys the atmosphere - but Aussies put up with it without any complaint. But as soccer here still tends to be the game of the Brits, Italians, Greeks etc then tv doesn't get away with interruptions.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pretty much what Mac said -- it'd only be a problem for a portion of fans who were accustomed to uninterrupted coverage, which is pretty much to say it would only bother those who've lived/watched elsewhere ... because about the only thing that runs without commercial interruption here in the annual State of the Union address.

[moriarty]

Total classless acts by mexican fans

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3495034

Which makes me wonder, how many of those anti-america mexican's had to run after the game and cross the border to get to their job

:eek: That's pretty harsh. What they apparently yelled was awful, but the article mentions it only was a 'spattering' of fans. Trust me, the Mexican team probably hears some pretty rough stuff from handfuls of drunk rednecks when they come here as well.

[Crapshoot]

I ain't hating-on-soccer or anything, that's just the way I suspect things went on something like this, which I suspect has ratings somewhere in the range of the 2002 Ladies World Billiards Championship (which actually gets more competitive ratings than I bet you'd expect too).

I call it the "Black Widow" effect... :D

[Crapshoot]

Total classless acts by mexican fans

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/3495034

Which makes me wonder, how many of those anti-america mexican's had to run after the game and cross the border to get to their job

nice one genius. They're the ones doing the work you don't want to. The point is made, without you resorting to the same "classless" crap.

[Desnudo]

:eek: That's pretty harsh. What they apparently yelled was awful, but the article mentions it only was a 'spattering' of fans. Trust me, the Mexican team probably hears some pretty rough stuff from handfuls of drunk rednecks when they come here as well.

It's hard to picture drunk rednecks sitting through a soccer game, but I suppose it's possible. ;) The original comment is racist and pointless.

As for the advertising part, consumer demand (ratings) drive television contracts and advertising sales, not vice-versa, so I don't think we'll be seeing advertising during soccer anytime soon. I think Mac basically got at this point.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Is our defensive depth so poor that we have to start Berhalter? he hasn't been good for 30 some odd years.I think it's a combination of lack of depth due to injuries, going for a particular matchup (Berhalter vs. Borgetti), and saving e.g. Gibbs for Guatemala, which is the most important match of the week for the U.S. Yes, we all wanted the U.S. to do something in this game, but ultimately it was a throwaway.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Gibbs I believe is on the bench. W/ Pope out I figured Gibbs/Berhalter would start or maybe Gibbs/Boconegra in the middle and someone else on the left.When was the last time Arena played two left-footers in the center of a four-man defense?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Pretty much what Mac said -- it'd only be a problem for a portion of fans who were accustomed to uninterrupted coverage, which is pretty much to say it would only bother those who've lived/watched elsewhere ... because about the only thing that runs without commercial interruption here in the annual State of the Union address.At this point, soccer has been running without commercial interruption for the better part of ten years (aside from NBC's Olympic coverage), so it's not just those who've lived/watched elsewhere who are accustomed to it... pretty much anybody who watches soccer in this country is accustomed to it as well.

The qualifiers may be a time buy by the USSF and/or SUM.

[Ragone]

I apologize for the classless remark...

However, It was more then just a "smattering" or whatever the term was used.. i could hear it over the tv.. Anyone who can chant the name of a man who was a mastermind behind the deaths of thousand's of americans deserves nothing but the worst.. in my mind

[MrBug708]

It's nothing new really. i'll still stand by my comments in the other thread where I think Donovan would be better served going to Mexico to play instead of MLS

[weinstein7]

It's nothing new really. i'll still stand by my comments in the other thread where I think Donovan would be better served going to Mexico to play instead of MLS

Interestingly, I saw a quote where Donovan said the lack of PT in Germany had probably affected his fitness. Methinks it's a bit of making excuses on Landon's part (though I don't know what the question was), but nonetheless, it's food for thought when discussing what situation would benefit him most.

And as for the discussion in the other thread as to why Landon's only two options seem to be Germany and the US...doesn't Leverkeusen own his rights for several more years? Perhaps while they're willing to let him go to the US, they'd be less willing to let him walk to a European rival. Just speculating.

[Mr. Wednesday]

It's simpler than that, I think... a combination of transfer regulations makes MLS pretty much the only option for an immediate move (both the transfer window and I think there are restrictions on being registered for more than two clubs in a year).

If Leverkusen have decided that they're done with him, I think they'd be willing to sell to anyone who would give them a good price. I don't think rivalry would enter into it, as long as it's not a move within the Bundesliga.

[weinstein7]

True enough. My thinking is that Leverkeusen might be willing to do the kid a favor and let him go home if that's what he really wants, but they might not be so willing to accomodate him if it's just that he wants to go to another European club. Guess we'll find out soon enough anyway.

[Desnudo]

I do wonder what BL is thinking in all of this. I don't think they're going to call it a day based on one poor performance. Maybe a full pre-season spent training with the team will help Donovan's outlook some. Or maybe not.

[MrBug708]

The Times said that they (LA) had by Thursday morning to get a deal done for Donovan or it would be off.

[moriarty]

It's hard to picture drunk rednecks sitting through a soccer game, but I suppose it's possible. ;)

Well, if they're drunk enough they'll probably sit through anything. I was thinking of the next match against Guatemala in of all places Birmingham, Alabama when I wrote that. No offense to the fine folks from Alabama. :)

[condors]

to me its a no brainer, while i would have had Gibbs and probally Califf around I would have brought in CJ Brown who played with Boca for years for the Fire and would not have seemed so disorganised. Also move Mastroeni back and play Armas as the holding midfielder. Get Clint Mathis out of Utah and get him upfront to help Johnson. Beasley(right) Donovan(center) and i would have Mapp or Convey(left) as the other midfielder. I wouldn't have had a problem playing McBride or Twellman up front either. Not sure what the Bruce was thinking with the formation.

[moriarty]

Here's my inital FM rankings based on the match. Feel free to rip em apart. I'm still conflicted on whom deserves the blame for the second goal.

Keller - 6 - Was an 8 or 9 in the second half, but still feel he left his feet way to early on the first goal costing us the lead.

Boco - 5 - could make a case he cost us the first goal by letting in an easy cross. I'd rather see him in the middle w/ Pope out.

Berhalter - 5 - The 'experienced' guy supposed to hold the backline together. Backline looked out of sorts, and this guy just makes me nervous. Seems out of his league at this level.

Onyewu - 4 - Lost his man on the first goal, could make a case he was the reason no one was within 20 yards on the second. Still I have hope (see previous posts)

Cherundolo - 7 - Easier to criticize than praise, and since I can't direcltly criticize him ... he gets a solid 7.

Donovan - 5 - Made a couple of good runs, and nice assist on the goal (keeping me from giving him a 4) but looked lost, gave the ball away often, and seriously lacking in confidence.

Beasley - 6 - Why oh why was he playing MC where he gets easily pushed off the ball? Put him on the wing and let him run.

Mastroeni - 7 - I'm torn as to whether him or Reyna wasn't back marking on the second goal, but I'll give Pablo the benefit of the doubt.

Reyna - 5 - Shares partial blame for the second goal. Made me gasp for air just watching him struggle in the first 10 mintues. In the right place on defense a few times, but looked slow and old (sadly).

Eddie Lewis - 7 - Extremely quiet, but give him credit ... he had one good look and he made it count.

EJ - 8 - probably really a 7, but he played alone up front all day, getting little but lots of long jump balls. With age, he'll create a few more chances w/out service.

MOM - EJ by a squeaker over Keller (still can't get over Keller's dive into the net even though keller kept it close in the second half).

Questions of the match: Arena: Why put the Onyewu in this huge match on the road (would have preferred to see him at home)? Why oh why DMB in the middle and Donovan down the right? Why play Reyna a full 90 in high altitude after only having played a few matches all season?