USA v. Guatemala

[Desnudo]

Here we go! Good to see Ching and Gibbs in the lineup.

[moriarty]

Much better line up tongiht. Too bad DMB is out ... but let's see what this lineup can do.

Anyone else supprised by the number of Guatemalan's in Alabama?

[moriarty]

EJ again! He's uncanny.

Did Donovan pass that or misplay it?

[moriarty]

It was a nice pass then.

[GoldenEagle]

It was a pass.

[FBPro]

My son is at the game tonight. :)

[Neuqua]

This ref is letting a lot of things slide tonight. I hope no one gets hurt.

[FBPro]

What channel is it on?

[moriarty]

Donovan looks a lot shaper tonight. Guess he's happy to have Germany behind him.

Now, if we can just get Ching to find the net.

[moriarty]

What channel is it on?

ESPN 2

[FBPro]

Thnx

[moriarty]

Thnx

It's cool that your son is there. I've never seen the USMNT live ... yet. Hmm... Germany sounds nice next summer.

[DaddyTorgo]

just got in from work. glad to see we're 1-0 up. Boys lookin good in the few minutes I've seen

[Desnudo]

Somewhat sloppy play, but that's mostly due to the poor referee I think. Nice crosses, too bad they couldn't put something on target.

[moriarty]

Good first half ... lots of chances w/ very little attacks on our own goal.

Call me paraniod though, but we should be up 2 or 3 to nothing, and instead we're only one Oneywu mistake away from a tie.

[SunDancer]

Nice play by the USA so far...How good is Guatemala?

[moriarty]

Nice play by the USA so far...How good is Guatemala?

Improving and they have some good strikers;however, there's two class teams in this group Mexico and US. We are definitely expected to beat them at home.

Edit: Just to add, I know they haven't qualified for the world cup anytime recently ... but if I had to guess I'd expect them to end up 4th in the qualifying behind Mexico, US, and Costa Rica.

[GoldenEagle]

I would be there if I did not have to work.

[moriarty]

Eddie lewis just missed that one, but he's looked pretty lively tonight.

[SirFozzie]

Costa Rica could only draw 0-0 with Trinidad and Tobago. Two big points lost there.

[moriarty]

Ahhh... how did we not score?

... and since when do we have players that can put bicycle kicks on target?

[moriarty]

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL

[GoldenEagle]

Wow. Two amazing saves from the Guatemla keeper.

[Desnudo]

Man this refs are horrendous. Horrible offsides call and then miss an obvious hand ball in the box.

[GoldenEagle]

Finally. The US finishes another and it is 2-0.

[moriarty]

Finally. The US finishes another and it is 2-0.

Big sigh of relief. I was just starting to wonder who was out there on the right wing.

Let's see if this frees it up a little to add some goals.


edit: grr... timestamp bug.

[GoldenEagle]

Man this refs are horrendous. Horrible offsides call and then miss an obvious hand ball in the box.
I think Donovan was offside there but it was hard to tell from that angle.

[GoldenEagle]

... and since when do we have players that can put bicycle kicks on target?
Eddie is a GAM.

[moriarty]

Eddie is a GAM.

Eddie's a Gay Asian Male? :eek:

[GoldenEagle]

The US has to make sure they keep their heads here. We can not afford any silly cards for key players.

[DaddyTorgo]

Eddie is a GAM.
GAM?? Do I even want to know?

[GoldenEagle]

We need some bigsoccer.com people on here. Where is Mr. Wednesday at?

[BishopMVP]

Man this refs are horrendous. Horrible offsides call and then miss an obvious hand ball in the box.At least he's disgracefully bad for both teams. Eddie Johnson is good.

[moriarty]

We need some bigsoccer.com people on here. Where is Mr. Wednesday at?

If we had more Big Soccer folks here , this thread would degenerate into Donovan nuthuggers versus Donovan haters.

[DaddyTorgo]

i find myself somewhere in the middle on the donovan subject. I think he too much needs to be...motivated. And he shouldn't need that. Not at this level.

[GoldenEagle]

Does anyone else think these announcers blow? They are much better than Jack and Ty but I still think we could do much better.

Intersting sub there bringing on Wolff, who is a pacey attacker instead of a more defensive player.

[moriarty]

Intersting sub there bringing on Wolff, who is a pacey attacker instead of a more defensive player.

I missed it. Who came off?

[DaddyTorgo]

i want to be one of the announcers. I could add more than these tools.

[ISiddiqui]

We need some bigsoccer.com people on here. Where is Mr. Wednesday at?
No... we really don't. With somme of their nicknames for people (GAM - grown ass man.. what?) and their Donovan is God / Devil stuff and their calling for blood of the ref crew.

The team looks good, but it should, playing a home game agaisnt Guatemala.

Btw, about the Donovan offside call, I think we needed a flat angle from the sideline rather than that 3/4 view to adequately judge.

[GoldenEagle]

There has already been two cards isssued and we get "Finally a yellow card issued in this game." WTF?

[DaddyTorgo]

it's cuz the announcers aren't paying any attention GE.

[DaddyTorgo]

this Guatemala keeper is quality. Impressive.

[moriarty]

Good performance. Thought everyone did pretty well except Ching. He didn't really seem to get in the game.

Thought EJ was totally a GAM (whatever the hell that his). He impresses me more and more every game. Need to get this guy in Europe soon.

[ISiddiqui]

GAM = Grown Ass Man

It's seriously an idiotic nickname. I hate when people use it.

It apparently comes from an interview Johnson gave where he said:

"I don't play video games. I'm a grown-ass man."

[moriarty]

GAM = Grown Ass Man

It's seriously an idiotic nickname. I hate when people use it.

It apparently comes from an interview Johnson gave where he said:

"I don't play video games. I'm a grown-ass man."


Ahh, thanks.

[SirFozzie]

Holy shit, Panama looks like they're going to tie Mexico 1-1. Huge result for the Panamaniacs.

[ISiddiqui]

Wow... that would be a good result for Panama. They need to keep pace to have any hope of going to Germany.

[Desnudo]

No... we really don't. With somme of their nicknames for people (GAM - grown ass man.. what?) and their Donovan is God / Devil stuff and their calling for blood of the ref crew.

The team looks good, but it should, playing a home game agaisnt Guatemala.

Btw, about the Donovan offside call, I think we needed a flat angle from the sideline rather than that 3/4 view to adequately judge.

They laid down a line that showed he was clearly on.

[GoldenEagle]

They laid down a line that showed he was clearly on.
But it was from a goofy angle. I thought he was off but I am not sure and can not be sure from that angle.

I like the nick names. Then again, I think Dempsey will be better than Donovan down the road, so what do I know.

[GoldenEagle]

Did anyone see the North Korea game. The whole North Korea team attacked the ref.

[Desnudo]

But it was from a goofy angle. I thought he was off but I am not sure and can not be sure from that angle.

I like the nick names. Then again, I think Dempsey will be better than Donovan down the road, so what do I know.

The angle you're looking at doesn't matter. The line is laid down just like the one in football. It's accurate.

[Glengoyne]

Did anyone see the North Korea game. The whole North Korea team attacked the ref.
So that is worth like a penalty kick or something right?

[GoldenEagle]

So that is worth like a penalty kick or something right?
No, just a send off for the guy who pushed the ref.

[SunDancer]

North Korea plays soccer? :)

Anyways, the US and Mexico teams are the two "heavyweights" of the CONCANAF (whatever the hell is it), what are the other teams like? Is Costa Rica really the only other decent team?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

For what it's worth, I thought Donovan was offsides as well. It was close, but I think the refs got the call right.

Now, on to the match itself. This was like watching an MLS match (i.e. painful). I absolutely hate the way the US plays. It's all counter attack all the time. Is it possible to have any kind of control and string some passes together? Does every pass have to be fifty yards down the pitch?

Guatemala looked horrible. The only one who showed up tonight for them was their keeper. A nice win for the US, but take it with a grain of salt.

[McSweeny]

For what it's worth, I thought Donovan was offsides as well. It was close, but I think the refs got the call right.

Now, on to the match itself. This was like watching an MLS match (i.e. painful). I absolutely hate the way the US plays. It's all counter attack all the time. Is it possible to have any kind of control and string some passes together? Does every pass have to be fifty yards down the pitch?

Guatemala looked horrible. The only one who showed up tonight for them was their keeper. A nice win for the US, but take it with a grain of salt.

that's pretty much how i feel about the game

[GoldenEagle]

Now, on to the match itself. This was like watching an MLS match (i.e. painful). I absolutely hate the way the US plays. It's all counter attack all the time. Is it possible to have any kind of control and string some passes together? Does every pass have to be fifty yards down the pitch?

Well, I think it just depends on who the US is playing. Guatemala (I can not spell that and am too lazy to look it up) was bunched and pinched into the midfield. It made the long ball an opiton and we had sucess with it early. That being said, our offense was not all counters and long balls. Cherndolo (again, spelling) got forward and hit some nice crosses into the boxes. I felt Donovan made several nice runs with the ball as well.

[ISiddiqui]

But it was from a goofy angle. I thought he was off but I am not sure and can not be sure from that angle.
Yep, that's my position on it as well. I couldn't tell with the line, because of the 3/4 angle. Don't we have any view right down the sideline?

If I had to make a decision, I'd say he was offside by a foot.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Nice play by the USA so far...How good is Guatemala?Not as good as I thought, considering how badly they got pwned tonight. They didn't threaten the U.S. as much as in the prelims of the last cycle, where it took a late tally (with only ten men) to beat Guatemala by 1 - 0 at RFK. It's looking like the U.S. and Mexico are the class of the group.

[Mr. Wednesday]

GAM?? Do I even want to know?He was asked a couple years back what gaming system he liked (i.e. PS2, X-Box, etc.). His answer was that he didn't play games, he was a "grown ass man." Hence the nickname.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Edit: Just to add, I know they haven't qualified for the world cup anytime recently ... but if I had to guess I'd expect them to end up 4th in the qualifying behind Mexico, US, and Costa Rica.With the Ticos down a bit from the last cycle, there were some who thought that Guatemala might be able to take the final automatic qualification spot over CR. Despite how lopsided this match was, we'll do well to get three points in Guatemala (remember Mazatenango the last time...), and Costa Rica isn't looking all that strong so far with a home loss to Mexico and now a road draw to T&T.

Right now, it looks like it will be:
1. Mexico
2. U.S.
(gap)
3/4 Costa Rica / Guatemala
(gap)
5/6 Panama / T&T

[Mr. Wednesday]

Man this refs are horrendous. Horrible offsides call and then miss an obvious hand ball in the box.That offsides call was not horrible. I'm not even sure it was incorrect -- in the slow-mo, I wasn't clear on whether he as a half-step ahead as the ball was leaving Lewis's foot or immediately after. I agree that you want to give the attacker the benefit of the doubt, but IMO that's the hardest call in sports to get right.

[ISiddiqui]

The angle you're looking at doesn't matter. The line is laid down just like the one in football. It's accurate.
In football they follow a yard line. I'm not sure how accurate the line was in determining the relationship of the players on the pitch to each other.

[Desnudo]

In football they follow a yard line. I'm not sure how accurate the line was in determining the relationship of the players on the pitch to each other.

As long as they use a computer to draw the line so it stays an equal distance from a point of reference, 18 yard line, goaline, whatever, it should be accurate.

It doesn't really matter in the end since the US won, but the refs are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in either case. I thought it was close enough where there should have been no call. Although the obvious instinct is to call it offsides if it's close.

[SirFozzie]

By the way.. if you can beg borrow or steal a look at Panama's goal against Mexico.. DO SO.

Some of my friends are calling it the best goal you'll see in the CONCACAF WCQ..

[MrBug708]

Right now, it looks like it will be:
1. Mexico
2. U.S.
(gap)
3/4 Costa Rica / Guatemala
(gap)
5/6 Panama / T&T

After the loss to Mexico, I think there is a little gap between the US and Mexico right now

[GoldenEagle]

the refs are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in either case.
I think that is something that Marcelo Babbling made up. He seems to do that often.

[RPI-Fan]

My thoughts:

Officiating was excrutiatingly bad. (Announcers: Either criticize it directly, or don't mention it; don't fucking tiddly-wink around the issue) Cards should have been issued WAY earlier. Ruiz should not have gotten a card for diving. The only card that I thought was deserved was Dempsey's (Announcers: That is a card in every league in the word, by every ref in the world, for every player in the world). Just the general foul calls were horrendous; I can forgive the missed handball and the debatable offside -- however, the calls and non-calls during the run of play were terrible. Just a terrible, terrible performance from the referee.

We REALLY need to solve our right-wing problem. I have no idea who is going to step up. Ralston does not get the job done, though. His first touch is usually pretty good, but as soon as he picks his head up, he loses the ball. He is simply not an effective player at the CONCACAF, let alone European, level.

Lewis, on the other hand, is the most underrated US player. I'm shocked he isn't playing in the Premiership (where there isn't exactly an overflow of quality left wingers). He was Man of the Match for me tonight, a bit ahead of Eddie Johnson.

Re: Johnson, I have no idea how good this guy could become. I'm afraid that he is just in an amazing hot streak right now, but to do what he's done over the course of 10 games is amazing. If it was 2, 3 or even 4 games I'd be convinced he's just playing with loads of confidence; however, at this point, it's something more. If he avoids injury, he could make a run at 25 goals this year in MLS, I think. The "trade" Dallas made (of an allocation for Ruiz) is amazing. They have the two best strikers in the league, hands-down.

Keller was excellent in net; this guy grows on me every time he plays for us.

The defense was very good but not great. Gibbs much better than Onyewu. I wish The Bruce would give Onyewu a little more free reign to step up into the midfield, especially with Pablo back there. In time, maybe. Bocanegra just does not look comfortable at left back -- his long balls are unbearable. He's got to move back into the center ASAP; however it won't happen soon as there are just NO viable options at left back for The Bruce. I'd think Bruce would move to a 3-5-2, but the problem is Cherundolo is just so god-damn good at right back. At the club level, you need versatile players, which Cherundolo certainly is not. However, internationally, if you can do one othing really well, you're an effective player. 'Dolo excels when he plays for the U.S. and is still pretty young, even. He certainly has the potential to have a Sanneh-esque World Cup.

Overall, nice match -- glad to see the U.S. attack, though the horrible refereeing made the match difficult to watch at times.

Let's hope the MLS players step up this year, especially Johnson, and we're ready to go for the qualifiers & England match in the summer!

~rpi-fan

[RPI-Fan]

I think that is something that Marcelo Babbling made up. He seems to do that often.

No, 'Cello was TOTALLY correct. This was a very clear mandate from Fifa prior to Portugal 2004.

[weinstein7]

After the loss to Mexico, I think there is a little gap between the US and Mexico right now

I don't know about that. I agree that with the home-field advantage, the Mexicans are definite favorites, but lets see how the Mexicans do in the US. I think the US team is slightly better, but the huge advantage of playing in Mexico City is enough to tip the scales in Mexico's favor.

[Desnudo]

No, 'Cello was TOTALLY correct. This was a very clear mandate from Fifa prior to Portugal 2004.

You hear it mentioned watching EPL matches, where they have the same problem.

[Desnudo]

Johnson looks like the real deal. His touch on the ball and awareness are things that you don't see that often in a US player. It was interesting to hear that MLS turned down a $5 million bid from Benfica for him.

[MrBug708]

I don't know about that. I agree that with the home-field advantage, the Mexicans are definite favorites, but lets see how the Mexicans do in the US. I think the US team is slightly better, but the huge advantage of playing in Mexico City is enough to tip the scales in Mexico's favor.

I'll agree for the most part, but it's no more advantage then playing in Rochester NY in January for the US. I was moreso picking on the arguement that Guatemala wasn't as good as the US because we owned them on our soil, while Mexico owns us on their soil and we are still even.

[ISiddiqui]

As long as they use a computer to draw the line so it stays an equal distance from a point of reference, 18 yard line, goaline, whatever, it should be accurate.
The problem of accuracy in using a line to determine offsides is where the point of reference is, not that it isn't straight.

I still think Donovan was offside.

[weinstein7]

I'll agree for the most part, but it's no more advantage then playing in Rochester NY in January for the US. I was moreso picking on the arguement that Guatemala wasn't as good as the US because we owned them on our soil, while Mexico owns us on their soil and we are still even.

I see your point, but I don't entirely agree. For one, Mexico City is an exceptionally difficult place to play because of the altitude. Nobody beats Mexico at home. For another, the US has less home-field advantage than any team in CONCACAF, since most of the time at least half the fans are actually for the visiting team (like tonight). Also, we beat them pretty solidly on neutral ground at the World Cup, so I think you have to give the edge to the US.

Doesn't really matter though, that's why they play the games! (and with the 3.5 WC berths, it REALLY doesn't matter this time around)

[MrBug708]

Well, no one but...Costa Rica?

True about the World Cup, but the better team doesnt always move on

[Mr. Wednesday]

After the loss to Mexico, I think there is a little gap between the US and Mexico right nowNot really -- we still own them everywhere but in Mexico. Whereas Guatemala will give us trouble in their house (very few road games in CONCACAF are gimmes), but we can get a result there -- we had a draw in Mazatenango in the semifinals in 2000 (which could have been a win if the flopping fish had been sent off on a second caution for abuse of Keller).

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, Costa Rica was much better the last time around, where it wound up being,
1. CR/Mexico/U.S.
(small gap)
4. Honduras (great on the road but couldn't get a result at home, oddly)
5. Jamaica
(gap)
6. T&T

[weinstein7]

Dola, Costa Rica was much better the last time around, where it wound up being,
1. CR/Mexico/U.S.
(small gap)
4. Honduras (great on the road but couldn't get a result at home, oddly)
5. Jamaica
(gap)
6. T&T

That certainly seems like the right order of things to me. Panama seems to be on the rise, and T&T slipping a bit, but it's hard to say. Could be an interesting battle for that last half-berth.

[tanglewood]

As an impartial observer, I do find it a bit silly that CONCACAF gets 3.5 spots out of 6 when there are only 2 decent teams in the federation. If that half spot was taken and given to the Australasian federation, there wouldn't be th whole furore over Australia 'moving' to Asia.

[Mr. Wednesday]

By the way.. if you can beg borrow or steal a look at Panama's goal against Mexico.. DO SO.

Some of my friends are calling it the best goal you'll see in the CONCACAF WCQ..And yet, ESPN took a decent but unremarkable goal by Beckham in the top ten plays. :(

(Aside from the GAM goal, which was definitely worthy of inclusion.)

[Mr. Wednesday]

As an impartial observer, I do find it a bit silly that CONCACAF gets 3.5 spots out of 6 when there are only 2 decent teams in the federation. If that half spot was taken and given to the Australasian federation, there wouldn't be th whole furore over Australia 'moving' to Asia. Well, for one thing, one of Australia and NZ (Australia, I think) screwed the pooch in their preliminary round and didn't even make the final round of qualification in Oceanea. Generally, the concern with giving them a spot is that the region is very weak after Australia and NZ, the aforementioned choke notwithstanding.

Personally, I think the most appropriate way of handling it, competition-wise, would be to put the top two from Oceanea qualifying into the Asian groups; AFC is getting 1.5 to 2 spots too many as it is because of their unjustified hissy fit leading up to the last WC (and nothing's changed despite their last two teams getting completely embarassed in the competition).

As far as CONCACAF getting the extra half-spot goes, they earned it based on performance in '02 -- two teams advancing out of group play and CR losing out on a tiebreaker (and they played well enough that they should have gone through... the team that advanced at their expense was Turkey, one of the semifinalists). Plus, Honduras (the playoff side had we had 3.5 spots then) thwacked one of the lesser Euro sides in the cup in the warm-up matches, and that side (Slovenia, I think) laid an egg in the WC which suggests the Honduras win was no fluke. Unfortunately, CR and Honduras both seem to have regressed in this cycle, and as I noted previously, the U.S. domination of Guatemala makes it seem as though the Chapines haven't come quite as far as it first appeared.

[SirFozzie]

Well, for one thing, one of Australia and NZ (Australia, I think) screwed the pooch in their preliminary round and didn't even make the final round of qualification in Oceanea. Generally, the concern with giving them a spot is that the region is very weak after Australia and NZ, the aforementioned choke notwithstanding.

Was NZ.


Personally, I think the most appropriate way of handling it, competition-wise, would be to put the top two from Oceanea qualifying into the Asian groups; AFC is getting 1.5 to 2 spots too many as it is because of their unjustified hissy fit leading up to the last WC (and nothing's changed despite their last two teams getting completely embarassed in the competition).

I dunno, there are some rather good teams out there. Asia's catching up fast.


As far as CONCACAF getting the extra half-spot goes, they earned it based on performance in '02 -- two teams advancing out of group play and CR losing out on a tiebreaker (and they played well enough that they should have gone through... the team that advanced at their expense was Turkey, one of the semifinalists). Plus, Honduras (the playoff side had we had 3.5 spots then) thwacked one of the lesser Euro sides in the cup in the warm-up matches, and that side (Slovenia, I think) laid an egg in the WC which suggests the Honduras win was no fluke. Unfortunately, CR and Honduras both seem to have regressed in this cycle, and as I noted previously, the U.S. domination of Guatemala makes it seem as though the Chapines haven't come quite as far as it first appeared.

Guatemala is the Carlos Ruiz show. they'll go as far as he takes them. Freaking Fish.. he still should be beaten for costing my revs the MLS cup :D

(BTW, no insult intended, just blowing off steam Mr. Wedensday (plus I have a horrible time spelling Wedensday)

[ISiddiqui]

As far as CONCACAF getting the extra half-spot goes, they earned it based on performance in '02
Yep, I have to agree with that. When your top two get to the knockout stage and the 3rd barely misses it, you should be given a chance to get another spot if your team is good enough.

[moriarty]

We REALLY need to solve our right-wing problem. I have no idea who is going to step up. Ralston does not get the job done, though. His first touch is usually pretty good, but as soon as he picks his head up, he loses the ball. He is simply not an effective player at the CONCACAF, let alone European, level.


Well, we still have DMB available at right wing, especially with Lewis playing well on the left. I feel very comfortable with that lineup.

Unfortunately we still dont' have alot of depth in many of our positions ... which shows when we have a Pope or DMB out of the game.

[GoldenEagle]

DMB is a left winger.

[RPI-Fan]

DMB is a left winger.

Not when Lewis is healthy and with the team.

[moriarty]

DMB is a left winger.

What RPI said. ^^

DMB can definitely play on the right and be very effective.

[Wolfpack]

Must...repress...urge...for...Dave Matthews joke....