Pope's Blood Pressure Drops dramatically.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

:( Just heard it on FOX NEWS. Seems as if Pope John Paul II's condition has worsened. Seems that his Blood Pressure and Vital signs have dropped dramatically.

[Mr. Wednesday]

That's bad news.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Worsened? How can that be? The guy 's already practically dead...

I really pity him every time i see him on TV...

[JeeberD]

So do they have the next pope already lined up or do they find the next one after the current one has died?

Edit: Not that I'm saying he's going to die, just a hypothetical...

[Solecismic]

No kidding. He's got tubes for feeding and breathing now. I bet he wishes he believed in assisted suicide right about now.

[fantastic flying froggies]

So do they have the next pope already lined up or do they find the next one after the current one has died?
I am sure all the Cardinals have started the heavy political jousting already...

but it doesn't matter, since Nostradamus (i believe) forecast that JP II would be the last Pope before the Apocalypse...

Oh no, we 're DOOMED!

[Buzzbee]

So do they have the next pope already lined up or do they find the next one after the current one has died?

Edit: Not that I'm saying he's going to die, just a hypothetical...
I'm not Catholic, but I vaguely remember when John Paul became Pope. I believe they have a council or panel or group of Cardinals that deliberate and select the Pope. I can remember as a boy watching TV and the commentators referencing the process of using smoke (white or black, can't remember which) to signify that the Pope had been selected.

Perhaps others more familiar with the process can shed some light.

[Lathum]

Just curious, how do they select a new pope?

[vtbub]

IIRC, The College of Cardinals select the new pontiff, black smoke means no selection, white smoke means yes.

[vtbub]

Vatican statement due shortly.

Time, via Italian agencies, saying last rites have been issued.

Please remeber that this is unconfirmed.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Just curious, how do they select a new pope?
Single elmination deathmatches until the end when only two candidates remain. Then... it's Thunderdome time... Two men enter, one Pope leaves!

[Ksyrup]

See the movie the Pope Must Diet.

[Solecismic]

I think Rome has enacted some smoking restrictions since the '70s, though.

Now, the Cards drive around the courtyard in a black SUV if it's no pope, and a white Ford Bronco if they do select one.

[Castlerock]

The College of Cardinals elects a new pope in conclave, which is the process of sequestering the voting members of the college in Vatican City so that they have no contact with the outside world.

A conclave begins no earlier than 15 days and no later than 20 days after the pope's death.

A two-thirds-plus-one majority is required to elect a pope.

Two ballots each are held in the morning and afternoon, for a total of four per day.
If a new pope is not selected after 12 to 13 days, the cardinals may choose to impose a majority vote, which would allow selection of a new pope by a simple majority.

[flere-imsaho]

About a year ago I heard a very interesting article on the radio about what happens when the Pope dies. Not so much about the election procedure, and its cloak-and-dagger machinations amongst the Cardinals, but how the major news outlets of the world prepare.

Basically, all the major news outlets have ongoing leases of balconies overlooking St. Peter's Square, just for this occasion. They also keep noted papal authorities (guys who write books and stuff) on permanent retainer, solely for the time when the Pope dies.

By all accounts it's a huge operation that's planned years and years and years in advance, all in anticipation (probably correct) that it'll be the #1 news story for the weeks/month (whatever) it takes the Cardinals to select a new Pope, plus all the ceremony surrounding the new Pope.

Anyway, should be fascinating.

[cartman]

Here's something from USA Today on how a pope is selected:

hxxp://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/pope_election/flash.htm

[vtbub]

I think Rome has enacted some smoking restrictions since the '70s, though.

Now, the Cards drive around the courtyard in a black SUV if it's no pope, and a white Ford Bronco if they do select one.


Pope OJ

[fantastic flying froggies]

Single elmination deathmatches until the end when only two candidates remain. Then... it's Thunderdome time... Two men enter, one Pope leaves!
LOL

[HomerJSimpson]

The Cardinals elect the Pope? I never knew an American baseball team had such power. (Well, it could be the Arizona Cardinals, but we know they couldn't select a Pope. Heck, they can't select a first round draft pick).

[chibul]

The Cardinals elect the Pope? I never knew an American baseball team had such power. (Well, it could be the Arizona Cardinals, but we know they couldn't select a Pope. Heck, they can't select a first round draft pick).

HAHAHAHA

[vtbub]

Vatican says Pope has high fever due to a UTI.

[JasonC23]

The Cardinals elect the Pope? I never knew an American baseball team had such power. (Well, it could be the Arizona Cardinals, but we know they couldn't select a Pope. Heck, they can't select a first round draft pick).
But why put all their eggs in one Pope basket? Why not trade the top Pope spot for more Popes in later rounds?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Vatican says Pope has high fever due to a UTI.If he also has dropping blood pressure, I think that may be an indicator of sepsis.

[albionmoonlight]

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/pope/selection/

More info on the selection process.

[Ksyrup]

It's all detailed here:

http://imdb.com/title/tt0102691/

[Huckleberry]

Wait a second. The Pope is "selected by God", right? But he's voted on by the Cardinals. But the Cardinals speak with God, right?

So if the votes aren't unanimous in favor of the new Pope, then the Cardinals that voted against him should probably get their God-phones checked for some sort of malfunctioning. Or maybe step down as Cardinals.

[Ksyrup]

I bet none of them will be voting for McGwire after his performance in front of Congress.

[JeeberD]

Ozzie Smith perchance?

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

About a year ago I heard a very interesting article on the radio about what happens when the Pope dies. Not so much about the election procedure, and its cloak-and-dagger machinations amongst the Cardinals, but how the major news outlets of the world prepare.

Basically, all the major news outlets have ongoing leases of balconies overlooking St. Peter's Square, just for this occasion. They also keep noted papal authorities (guys who write books and stuff) on permanent retainer, solely for the time when the Pope dies.

By all accounts it's a huge operation that's planned years and years and years in advance, all in anticipation (probably correct) that it'll be the #1 news story for the weeks/month (whatever) it takes the Cardinals to select a new Pope, plus all the ceremony surrounding the new Pope.

Anyway, should be fascinating.

Wonder how much they pay for those seats yearly. Truly are the best and most expensive luxury boxes on this world.

[flere-imsaho]

Wonder how much they pay for those seats yearly. Truly are the best and most expensive luxury boxes on this world.

Needless to say, they weren't disclosing the details.... :)

[SirFozzie]

My thoughts and prayers are with the Pope. if this is his time, may he go without suffering further.

[Karlifornia]

With the first pick in the pope draft, the vatican selects: Benoit Benjamin

[st.cronin]

With the first pick in the pope draft, the vatican selects: Benoit Benjamin

That's a bad pick, if you ask me.

[SackAttack]

Wait a second. The Pope is "selected by God", right? But he's voted on by the Cardinals. But the Cardinals speak with God, right?

So if the votes aren't unanimous in favor of the new Pope, then the Cardinals that voted against him should probably get their God-phones checked for some sort of malfunctioning. Or maybe step down as Cardinals.

I know you're being facetious, but I had the same thought. If the Pope is God's man on Earth, doesn't letting the Cardinals vote on who should be Pope - especially if they can't get it unanimous the first time sort of cast a shadow over the whole process?

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I am sure all the Cardinals have started the heavy political jousting already...

but it doesn't matter, since Nostradamus (i believe) forecast that JP II would be the last Pope before the Apocalypse...

Oh no, we 're DOOMED!

I thought there was room for 2, the last being, '' A dark Pope from unknown lands.''

[SirFozzie]

*sighs*

Pope John Paul II was given the last rites of the Roman Catholic Church late Thursday night as his health deteriorated, a Vatican source has told CNN.

[Tekneek]

I'm not really intending to troll, but why all the stress about this? Being so close to God, shouldn't it be presumed that God is in control of the Pope's situation? I just don't get all the fuss. If God wants the Pope to deliver His message, the Pope will be able to talk. If he wants a new Pope, he will let this one pass away.

[DaddyTorgo]

read something that the new pope is likely going to be this Italian guy (don't remember his name though) who is seen as really a...financial and housekeeping wizard within church circles, just recently straightened out a whole division and stuff. Damn wish I could find that article, was in one of mom+pop's christian magazines.

[Ksyrup]

So God's looking for more of a CEO-type this time around?

[Solecismic]

Finance and Housekeeping? Sounds like Martha Stewart.

[WSUCougar]

read something that the new pope is likely going to be this Italian guy
For some reason this struck me as a hilarious line...

[Ksyrup]

I'm thinking one of those corporate turn-around guys.

[DaddyTorgo]

i can't remember what the guy's name was or any of the particulars (so sue me i'm not catholic i just read it on the can one time), but they brought him in to straighten out a division that was pretty much a mess and he realigned it and like...got it running smooth. The downside I guess is that he's never as a cardinal made any kind of ecumenical impact, but the author of the piece (who is a member of the permenant assignment of some news organization to the pope's press corps) says that this guy is the frontrunner.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I have just heard that the pope has been given his last rites, so says cnn.

[HomerJSimpson]

You think maybe they are setting up for a merger? Corporate buy-out?

[JeeberD]

*sighs*

Pope John Paul II was given the last rites of the Roman Catholic Church late Thursday night as his health deteriorated, a Vatican source has told CNN.


So does that mean he has died or just that they're preparing him for death?

Sorry, non-Catholic here...

[DaddyTorgo]

maybe Bin Ladin and the Muslims are going to buy them out...hmmmn

[DaddyTorgo]

So does that mean he has died or just that they're preparing him for death?

Sorry, non-Catholic here...
it means they're preparing him for death because the expectation is that he has zero chance of survival for any meaningful amount of time (at least as i understand it)

[SirFozzie]

So does that mean he has died or just that they're preparing him for death?

Sorry, non-Catholic here...

Wikipedia strikes again!

The Anointing of the Sick is one of the sacraments of the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and some Protestant churches.

The former name Extreme Unction was used in the Western (Roman) part of the Catholic Church from the end of the twelfth century until the Second Vatican Council, and was never popular in the Eastern (Orthodox) part. Last Rites is a common but misleading term; the Anointing of the Sick can be received as often as the believer desires and should not be postponed until death is thought to be near, nor is its administration intended to imply an expectation that the recipient is about to die. At one time in history, the sacrament was reserved until death was believed to be imminent, in order to reduce the possibility of the sick person committing further sins after its administration. However, since the Second Vatican Council this is no longer the case.

The sacrament has also been known as the holy oil, or unction, of the sick; the unction or blessing of consecrated oil; the unction of God; the office of the unction; and so on. In the Eastern Church the technical name is euchelaion ("prayer-oil"); but other names are used such as elaion hagion ("holy") or hegismenon ("consecrated"), elaion, elaiou Chrisis, chrisma, and so on. The chief biblical text for anointing of the sick is "Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. And their prayer offered in faith will heal the sick, and the Lord will make them well. And anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven." - James 5:14,15

It gives spiritual aid and comfort and perfect spiritual health, including the forgiveness of sins to Christians who are seriously ill. Catholics hold that in some cases it effects miraculous cures.

[st.cronin]

It always amazes me how interested in the Pope non-Catholics are.

(Me? Lutheran.)

[Celeval]

So does that mean he has died or just that they're preparing him for death?

Sorry, non-Catholic here...
Also, this pope has received Last Rites/Anointing (at least) once before, after the assassination attempt in the early 80s.

[JeeberD]

Thanks guys...

Well, st. cronin, my longtime girlfriend is Catholic so I figure it can't hurt to learn a thing or two about the religion... :)

[Wolfpack]

The problem with trading down in this year's Pope draft is that the top level of Pontiff candidates isn't viewed to be that great and groups down the list aren't really interested in trading into the top spot, putting the Vatican in a bit of a bind. Rumor has it they're negotiating with the San Diego archdiosise for their backup cardinal who was heir apparent to the archbishopship there until the incumbent decided in the last year to get his act together.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

The problem with trading down in this year's Pope draft is that the top level of Pontiff candidates isn't viewed to be that great and groups down the list aren't really interested in trading into the top spot, putting the Vatican in a bit of a bind. Rumor has it they're negotiating with the San Diego archdiosise for their backup cardinal who was heir apparent to the archbishopship there until the incumbent decided in the last year to get his act together.

So, I take it there won't be an American picked for Papacy again right?

[st.cronin]

It'll probably be some high schooler none of us have heard of yet.

[Qwikshot]

I know you're being facetious, but I had the same thought. If the Pope is God's man on Earth, doesn't letting the Cardinals vote on who should be Pope - especially if they can't get it unanimous the first time sort of cast a shadow over the whole process?

Isn't St. Louis called Heaven for baseball players?

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

So, I take it there won't be an American picked for Papacy again right?

Chances = Nill.

However, Look for the next pope to be possibly Latin-American or possibly African. Cardinal Francis Arinze who is from Nigeria, i think he is early 70's. Right out of the mold of Pope John Paul II . Also, Cardinal Oscar Andres Rodriguez who is from Hondurus, he is the one who worked with Bono on the late 1990's debt relief program.

My personal favorite is Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger who is the current Prefect of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith . He is JPII right hand man and would be a great Pope ( I think).

[QuikSand]

Under the principle of papal infallibility, aren't all popes great?

[Cap Ologist]

Isn't St. Louis called Heaven for baseball players?
No, that's Iowa.

[Cap Ologist]

The RCC should let the pope selection be a reality show.

Possible names:
My big, fat obnoxious Pope on Fox
The Pope on ABC
The Vatican on CBS

[Ksyrup]

I hear Maurice Clarett is going to sue if he isn't picked.

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

Under the principle of papal infallibility, aren't all popes great?

Papal Infallibillity pertains to teaching of Doctrine.

[ISiddiqui]

It always amazes me how interested in the Pope non-Catholics are.

(Me? Lutheran.)
Any man which such an impressive hat always requires some interest ;).

Oh, and the next Pope will be Italian. Mark my words.

[MrBug708]

How do they pick their new names?

[TLK]

I'd like to declare myself eligible to be the next Pope..... I'm Catholic.... how do I sign myself up?

[21C]

In case you were wondering . . .

The odds on who will be the next pope:
4-1: Francis Arinze
6-1: Giacomo Biffi, Dionigi Tettamanzi
8-1: Dario Castrillon Hoyos, Christoph Schonborn
10-1: Giovanni Battista Re
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2540369.stm

Dionigi Tettamanzi (Italy) 2.85/1
Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga 3.5/1
Francis Arinze (Nigeria) 4.7/1
Joseph Ratzinger (Germany) 7.6/1
Jean-Marie Lustiger (France) 10.5/1
Claudio Hummes (Brazil) 11
Count Christoph von Schoenborn (Austria) 24
Jorge Mario Bergoglio (Argentina) 27
Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino (Cuba) 29
Godfried Daneels (Belgium) 31
Cormac Murphy-O'Connor (Britain) 33
Giovanni Battista Re (Italy) 35
Angelo Sodano (Italy) 37
Crescenzio Sepe (Italy) 41
Giacomo Biffi (Italy) 41
Ennio Antonelli (Italy) 43
Dario Castrillion Hoyos (Colombia) 49
Bertone 54
Carlo Maria Martini (Italy) 54
George Pell (Australia) 54
Ivan Dias (India) 64
Juan Luis Cipriani (Italy) 74
http://sports.bestbetting.com/specials/current-affairs/religion/who-will-be-the-next-pope

Bets, please!

[Ksyrup]

OK, those are the lines, but who's got the rail?

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

How do they pick their new names?

The first Pope to change his name was John II in 533 , please correct me if I am wrong. He changed his name because his given name was Mercury, a pagan god, so he decided that was inapropriate as a Christian and as the Pope.

Sometimes Popes choose their names to indicate their "theology," John for instance may indicate an emphasis on ecumenism, inclusiveness, and love as the fundamental Christian teaching. Paul may indicate an emphasis on atonement, justification by grace through faith, and a more conservative approach towards ecumenism and cultural accomodation. However, most of the time they choose based on particular Saints or previous popes they admire or have devotions to.

[WSUCougar]

...whereas, say, Pope Muhammed may indicate a radical shift in ideology.

[QuikSand]

Papal Infallibillity pertains to teaching of Doctrine.

It was just a joke.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Now, Does anyone know the protocol the vatican uses to tell the world that the pope has doed (of course other than a press release). As with many thingsa in catholicism there has to be some sort of symbolic sign to tell the world the pope has died.

[Crapshoot]

I think an African or Asian pope will do wonders for Catholicism - in terms of the imagery. From what little I know about it, Francis Arinze is considered a damn good candidate.

[stkelly52]

Now, Does anyone know the protocol the vatican uses to tell the world that the pope has doed (of course other than a press release). As with many thingsa in catholicism there has to be some sort of symbolic sign to tell the world the pope has died.
I recall reading once that there is a large bell that they ring, but I don't remember where I read that at, so it may be wrong.

[Tekneek]

When the guy comes around shouting, "Bring out your dead", you see them throw the Pope out a window. There's the visual sign.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I recall reading once that there is a large bell that they ring, but I don't remember where I read that at, so it may be wrong.

There has to be a visual sign too I think. Like some kind of banner being flown or a door being cosed or something. I can remember hearing about it years ago but
I could have it confused with the death of a king or some world leader.

[Tekneek]

some world leader.

That could be the Pope.

[st.cronin]

That could be the Pope.


The Pope, a world leader??? How many divisions does the Pope have?

;)

[Crapshoot]

The Pope, a world leader??? How many divisions does the Pope have?

;)

nice... very nice. :D

[JPhillips]

The Pope's name may also serve as a link to past Popes and their ideology. JP II chose that name in part because he believed he was following in the footsteps of JP I.

I am currently in school at the Catholic University. Its very strange seeing all the local tv crews camped outside the Basilica and the JP II cultural center. It should be a very interesting week or two around here.

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

It was just a joke.

Sorry didnt catch that as it is a common misconception that nonCatholics have.

JPhillips - Are you in the seminary there? I am currently studying in my 2nd year of the permanent diaconate program at my local seminary. My uncle who is a Monsignor in the Columbus diocease went there and later taught there many years ago. Just wondering.

[Mustang]

From Wikipedia...

'The Pope's death is officially determined by the Cardinal Chamberlain by gently tapping the late Pope's head thrice with a silver hammer and calling his birth name three times. A doctor may or may not have already determined that the Pope had passed away. The Cardinal Chamberlain then retrieves the Fisherman's Ring. Usually the ring is on the Pope's right hand. But with Paul VI, he had stopped wearing the ring during the last years of his reign, and left it in his desk. In other cases the ring might have been removed for medical reasons. The Chamberlain cuts the ring in two in the presence of the Cardinals. The deceased Pope's seals are defaced, to keep the Pope's seal from ever being used again, and his personal apartment is sealed.'


Tapping on his freakin' head with a hammer??

I'm not dead yet.. I'm feeling better...

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Mark this down on your calendars: At around 935 am , a few minutes ago As I was working on my yard I felt gooosebumps all over my body. I just got back indoors and turned the news on and it states that the Pope has lost conscoiousness. I don't know but I think the pope left this earth at the time I felt the goosebumps.
God Rest hs soul.

[Tekneek]

The deceased Pope's seals are defaced, to keep the Pope's seal from ever being used again, and his personal apartment is sealed.'

Is his personal apartment sealed forever? How long before they run out of them?

[Mustang]

Mark this down on your calendars: At around 935 am , a few minutes ago As I was working on my yard I felt gooosebumps all over my body. I just got back indoors and turned the news on and it states that the Pope has lost conscoiousness. I don't know but I think the pope left this earth at the time I felt the goosebumps.
God Rest hs soul.

If your nipples stiffened too.. false alarm, just a cool breeze...

[3ric]

Italian media has reported that the Pope's electrocardiogram shows a flat line, according to Sky News...

[3ric]

I guess it means they are trying to revive him...

[Tekneek]

Italian media has reported that the Pope's electrocardiogram shows a flat line, according to Sky News...

They must not have brought out the hammer yet.

[Mustang]

They must not have brought out the hammer yet.

Wonder if it is a little hammer or one of those big ole' Gallagher Sledge-O-Matics...

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

Is his personal apartment sealed forever? How long before they run out of them?

The Papal Secratary I believe goes in at some point and removes all documents and begins archiving. Anything marked do not open or something to that effect is left for the next pontiff. The "office" is used by the next pope as well.

Totus Tuus JPII - May he rest in peace.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

The Pope, a world leader??? How many divisions does the Pope have?

;)
I believe the Swiss Guards are organized in Regiments and Battalions but once the Pope declares an edict of A crusade Catholic nations everywhere can field division and corps level units into the fight.

[3ric]

Is his personal apartment sealed forever? How long before they run out of them?
No, not forever... until they've elected a new Pope.