TPB 2005: Rewind

[MizzouRah]

Man, I started a career by relocating the Clippers to St. Louis and I have to say I'm addicted once again.

I know nothing about the Pro game, but this game is so much fun. I brought Larry Hughes back to St. Louis and he has been on fire. Much fun.

This game is quite good.



Todd

[jbmagic]

glad to see you back

with latest patch and Irishhand latest 2.3 real roster. its great.

[condors]

i started a new game with the latest rosters, won the title with Iverson and Webber in Philly as the #3 seed in the East. good stuff.

[Ragone]

i started a new game with the latest rosters, won the title with Iverson and Webber in Philly as the #3 seed in the East. good stuff.
I was gonna buy the game till i read this.. totally unrealistic.. philadelphia chokes in title games.. come on!

[dubb93]

I was a big fan when I first got the game. Took the knicks to 5 straight NBA titles, it started out rough, I got 4 number 1 picks in 6 years, and top 5 picks the other years. I got lucky with a 7'3 center that put down about 23 and 12 a game and a SG that dropped close to 30 a game. The other guys were solid, not a bust among them. However I ran into many bugs, including one that wouldn't allow me to advance past the free agent signing period. I tried to report it, but no one took any intest in it over there, so I gave up.

[condors]

dubb93-

Gary has been solid in his support. Why not post the details of what is happening exactly. Your missing out on a great game. Bugs? I don't notice any. I have played hundreds of seasons without issue. Not saying your not having a problem but i don't people to read this and get the wrong impression of the game. There are too many games that can be described as bug ridden but TPB2005 is not one of them.

[dubb93]

dubb93-

Gary has been solid in his support. Why not post the details of what is happening exactly. Your missing out on a great game. Bugs? I don't notice any. I have played hundreds of seasons without issue. Not saying your not having a problem but i don't people to read this and get the wrong impression of the game. There are too many games that can be described as bug ridden but TPB2005 is not one of them.

yea, I should probably point out it was an early version of the game, it might be fixed by now.

[jbmagic]

yep

current version of tpb 2005 is 1.4

very solid game.

Gary been great for support.

[Gary Gorski]

Dubb - certainly if you posted an issue over there and did not get a reply it was simply an oversight as I think most people will attest to. If you're interested I can do whatever it takes (if the problem hasn't been corrected already) to get your season back up and running again. Either PM me some details or send me an email with your league files and details about the problem.

Thanks Todd for making mention of it again - I am extremely pleased to see that even non pro hoops fans find the game enjoyable.

[rjolley]

Gary, will TPB use draft files from TDCB? Any talks or plans to use FBCB's draft files? (I know, different makers, but hope is hope...)

[MizzouRah]

Gary, will TPB use draft files from TDCB? Any talks or plans to use FBCB's draft files? (I know, different makers, but hope is hope...)

Yes, I believe you can use draft files from TDCB.

Also, someone just posted a 2005 real draft file over in the mods forum.

The good thing about not knowing the Pro game too well is I can play on "Pure" GM mode and have my coaches call the plays and make tactics, while I concentrate on the players and draft.

With the 2.3 roster update, real logos, courts, banners, and jerseys... this game is really immersive and quite easy on the eyes.


Todd

[Gary Gorski]

Like Todd said TPB can import draft files from TDCB or user created ones. The user created files are nothing more than database files so if you wanted to hand import players from a FBCB season or something and give them ratings you could but there is no and will not be any direct converter/importer unless Brian was to write some code in FBCB that setup the proper database file for importing into TPB.

[Galaril]

Yes, I believe you can use draft files from TDCB.

Also, someone just posted a 2005 real draft file over in the mods forum.

The good thing about not knowing the Pro game too well is I can play on "Pure" GM mode and have my coaches call the plays and make tactics, while I concentrate on the players and draft.

With the 2.3 roster update, real logos, courts, banners, and jerseys... this game is really immersive and quite easy on the eyes.


Todd

I just finished my season universe with the Houston Rockets in the first season they went 60-22 but got knocked out by the mavericks in 7 games only when Tracy Mcgrady went down with an injury. But ironically Dallas lost Norwinski or whatever his name is in the game got injured an dwere knocked out by the Suns in 5 games. The Miami Heat and Shaq took the Championship Trophy in 6 game sover Phoenix and Shaq got league MVP. I now got to work to get a good point gaurd in the draft if possible with the 24 pick or maybe try to trade up. Greta game very immersive and addictive. It is the best sports sim out and I have played them all. Gary gives great support to his customers a real professional IMHO. The funny thing is I am not a big NBA fan. I am dying for this platform to be used for a college basketball game. Gary please. :p

[Gary Gorski]

Thanks Galaril - a college game eh....hmmmm might not be such a bad idea considering college basketball is my favorite sport and all ;)

[Galaril]

I'll make a deal with you Gary. If you make a college game , I will get my wife to agree to name our first son Gary when or if we have a son that is. :D

[Gary Gorski]

I'll make a deal with you Gary. If you make a college game , I will get my wife to agree to name our first son Gary when or if we have a son that is. :D

An offer like that is hard to refuse - hmmmmmmmmm :D

[MizzouRah]

Thanks Galaril - a college game eh....hmmmm might not be such a bad idea considering college basketball is my favorite sport and all ;)

I like this kind of talk Gary! :)


Todd

[castorius]

How are the injuries in the latest build?

I just remember playing the game back then, and I quit because too many key players were getting injured. The injuries work out numbers-wise realistically in the end for the total number of games, but the flaw in that is, in real life; players have minor injuries (day-to-day) that they play thru throughout the season. In TPB, the minor day-to-day injuries allow the players to play, but they might as well not play because they end up just playing 1 or 2 minutes. In real life, players often have reported injuries that only shorten their minutes slightly. If the player was significantly injured to the point where he could only muster 1 or 2 minutes, the player would most likely rest it out and not bother playing in the game at all. This also saves their averages (points, rebounds etc) from being adversely effected.

You especially realize this during playoff time. Almost every playoff, you'll lose 1 of your star players for an extended period of games. At the very least you'll definitely lose 1 or 2 starters throughout the course of the playoffs. I know this happens for some teams in real life, but there is nothing like going into the championship series without your star player, which happens too much imo (every playoff series I've had one missing starter, and usually lose my star at one point in every playoff season). I would imagine that my stars would play thru some of the injuries that they got, especially since it was the finals. A minor sprain or ache shouldn't keep my marquee player out. The day-to-day injuries allow players to play, but I've never seen a day-to-day injury where they play 20+ minutes like you would see in real life. You usually see 1-4 minutes, in which case is virtually useless to even have the guy out there.

I've played alot of fantasy hoop leagues to know that the injury frequency in real life and notice that players will often play thru and log just about as many minutes as when they are healthy with alot of day-to-day injuries. In fact, some players who were reported injured played more minutes the following game. You just never know. In TPB, it seems pretty consistent that a player even with a minor day-to-day injury will lose precious minutes. This makes the numbers realistic in the overall games played, but it doesn't work out realistically when you examine it further.

I personally think that there should be more minor, minor injuries (I said it twice on purpose) that either don't really effect them much at all, or effect them so slightly that they can play just about as many minutes. At the same time, then the injuries that reduce the player to 1 to 2 minutes should be lowered, and in fact, if a player is that hurt, they shouldn't be playing in that game most times, especially if they are a star or starter. In real life you just don't see stars playing in a game and playing 2 minutes, unless they got injured during the game, or tried to play, but realized they were too hurt. It just doesn't happen alot.

[Galaril]

I do agree the injuries are IMHO stiil out of balance. This isn't hockey for football. I am guessing the only thing that will slow me down evidently is the injury issue mentioned above. I had a ;lot of injuries even in the playoffs that ended a lot of teams season. They definitley need to be adjusted at some point. I like a slider for this setting in fact. the players day to day injuires are too crippling.

[Gary Gorski]

In real life you just don't see stars playing in a game and playing 2 minutes, unless they got injured during the game, or tried to play, but realized they were too hurt. It just doesn't happen alot.

You should not be seeing this either - the AI teams will not play players unless they are healthy enough to contribute more than that. Do you have a saved game or something that shows this is happening?

[castorius]

You should not be seeing this either - the AI teams will not play players unless they are healthy enough to contribute more than that. Do you have a saved game or something that shows this is happening?


Like I said Gary, I haven't touched the game since the first couple of months it was released. I believe the last version I tried was 1.3. Has the injuries been adjusted since then?

From that point, I just uninstalled it and moved on (perhaps crossing my fingers that a patch would improve it). I don't want people getting the impression that there is nothing positive about the game, because that's completely untrue. The game does alot of things right and has great potential. The trade AI is robust and one of the best I've seen out there, albeit a bit stingy at times (better stingy than too easy I guess). The game to me is really great except for the issue I mentioned. I thought it was just a random bad luck occurrence, but its happened to me in every playoff season, and to a few friends whom I play with (they manage different teams). It just frustrated us to the point where it just didn't seem realistic to have a late playoff series without the marquee names there. There is almost always at least one or two key players out of the lineup for each team (starter or star, many times both, sometimes even half your starting lineup). I could tolerate this during the regular season (although it does get annoying), but during the playoffs, I like to get hyped about the possible match-ups, but no team is ever at full strength or even close to it. There is always some key player out. So it ends up being a battle between the two teams' bench warmers. I know that there are many injuries in real life that tend to ruin the match-ups of a playoff series, but imo it just happens way too much in this game. Most NBA games I see the key players there (especially in the playoffs/finals). Sometimes the players will be injured, but most of the time the injuries are so minor to the point where it has little-to-no effect at all. Or the game is too important that they decide to play through it regardless (unless they have a broken bone or something).

I'd like a level of customization that would allow us to reduce the number of injuries (ie. injury slider), however I don't think this would solve the problem entirely. The problem isn't so much that the injury frequency is too high. The problem is that the day-to-day injuries cripple the players too much to the point where they do play in the game to mark it as an official "games played", but they play with such minimum effectiveness and playing time that you'd rather not have the guy out there. If you take away all the "1-5 minute injured games" that these players played, I guarantee that the injury numbers (games played) would not work out to reflect real life. It only resembles real life (games played) because of this flaw I mention.

I ran many simulated seasons and checked back to many players game-by-game logs and noticed all these 1-5 minute games played by star players when they got injured. I know it was an injury because I matched it roughly to the days they were injured.

Bottom line is, these day-to-day injuries should not be crippling these guys so much. Yes, some day-to-day injuries should (hurt the guy to the point where he could barely play or not play at all), but right now its just too much. To me a day-to-day injury in TPB is always just a shorter version of a serious injury because the guy is virtually unplayable (it just doesn't happen for as long period as a serious injury).

Gary, I could install the game again and run a few tests and probably easily reproduce everything that I just said. Like I said, these occurrences happen in every season I ran. In the regular season, you don't notice how unrealistic this is as much, but once you hit the playoffs, you start to realize that you have never gone a playoff series with a full lineup (rarely ever with your 5 starters). Then you look around the league and notice that other teams haven't either due to these pesky day-to-day injuries. If I have time, I'll run the tests and send you the league files. But its not something that you or anybody else couldn't just simply reproduce. Its more a question of finding it and analyzing it. Don't look just at the "Games played or Games started" to tell you that the injury rate is fine. Like I said, the injuries according to "Games Played" by individual players matches up well with real life. In fact, like you said "there are probably more injuries in real life than in TPB". However, if you look closely at the game-by-game logs of each player, you'll notice that there aren't enough minutes played in the times that the players are injured by day-to-day injuries. The "Games played" statistic gives you a fall sense that the players are playing through enough injuries.... but in actuality, they're not; they are playing in the games, but they are "barely" playing in those games.

[castorius]

You should not be seeing this either - the AI teams will not play players unless they are healthy enough to contribute more than that. Do you have a saved game or something that shows this is happening?

Also, don't lose sight of what my main point is. My main point isn't that these players are playing in games that they shouldn't be playing in (too injured to play in). The main point is that these players are not playing in enough games when they have day-to-day injuries (or they are playing the games, but playing them at too low minutes). If you completely remove all these games that these players are playing at 1-4 minutes, then you'll find that the players won't have enough "Games Played" overall compared to real life. In a way, the game (TPB) manufactures the "Games Played" to match up to real life only because of these crummy little 1-4 minute games played. You take away the crummy 1-4 minute games, and then you got too many injuries that significantly take a player out of games (too low Games Played overall by individuals).

[Gary Gorski]

I'll run a test today and see but like I said teams should not be playing an injured guy for like 2 minutes. I had thought that was fixed b/c I have not heard about that problem. I'll look at it today and see what I can do.

However, teams do experience serious injuries going into the playoffs. Take a team like New Jersey - would they make the playoffs if they hadn't lost Richard Jefferson back in December? Utah's lost Kirilenko and Boozer for the year, Portland lost Zach Randolph for the year.

There's playoff teams with players out for the year or still a couple of weeks. Look at Indiana - not only is Artest suspended but Tinsley and Bender are hurt and Jermaine O'Neal is out for the rest of the regular season at least. Seattle has lost Rashard Lewis indefinitely, Sacramento is without Brad Miller for at least a month and without Bobby Jackson since January. Duncan is hurt in SA but should be ok for the playoffs, Jamison's been out a couple weeks in Washington, Webber just went down in Philly - some of these guys will be back for the playoffs but some won't.

I can't say with certainty that the injuries in TPB are fine and don't need to be tweaked - Im usually of the opposite opinion that pretty much anything can be improved on and Im sure this is no different but I just wanted to point out that there are teams that have had their seasons crippled because of injury and will be going into the playoffs missing some of their key players. Look no further than last year's NBA Finals....is it a different series if Karl Malone isn't injured going into the series?

[dubb93]

BUMP

Re-downloaded the game. Most of my complaints have been taken care of I see with the last few patches, however has the injury problem been fixed? Here is post I made over at the greydog boards that pretty much sums up my opinion on the situation....

I wouldn't say toned down. I think tweaked yes. Playing pure gm I've noticed that guys with little injuries like a sore wrist or sore leg and things like that will not play at all, or just about 5 or 6 minutes untill they are completely healed. There are alot of these injuries to reflect the day to day wear and tear of an NBA season in the game, however in real life the players would play 30+ minutes a game through the minor injuries like that, especially in the playoffs. In TPB, an injury like a sore leg could kill a team in the playoffs b/c the AI won't play them untill they are completely healed.

Also I have a problem with the Sun's logo not showing up. I downloaded a custom logo set and every team has a logo but the suns. They have a logo in my logo folder but it isn't showing up in the game. Anyone know a fix for this problem?

The only real bug that still seems to remain is this:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11504#post11504

Anytime you trade for a guy during the offseason his numbers will show up fine during the next season, however when you end the season and then look at his player card you will get some junk stats for him during that season that includes his current team, the team he never played for that year and negative numbers. For instance I traded for Okafor after the first season during the period where you can renounce contracts. During the next season his stats showed up fine in his player card, however as soon as I end the season and re-look at his player card it shows these numbers for 2005[note, the bulls were the team that traded for him, and he didn't play a single game for the bobcats in the 2005 season, he was traded during the offseason between the 2004 and 2005 seasons]:

Season Team G GS MPG PPG Points FGA FGM
2005 Bulls 0 1 0.0 0.0 -80 -54 -25....negative numbers on down
2005 Bobcats 79 78 35.6 14.1 1114 959 449...copy of his 2004 stats
2004 Bobcats 79 78 35.6 14.1 1114 959 449...his 2004 stats

In the future the player is no longer affected by this, but his 2005 stats are lost for good and his career numbers are FUBAR'ed as a result. This only happens when a player is traded during the off-season. Any chance of a fix for this?

[Zippo]

BUMP

Re-downloaded the game. Most of my complaints have been taken care of I see with the last few patches, however has the injury problem been fixed? Here is post I made over at the greydog boards that pretty much sums up my opinion on the situation....



Also I have a problem with the Sun's logo not showing up. I downloaded a custom logo set and every team has a logo but the suns. They have a logo in my logo folder but it isn't showing up in the game. Anyone know a fix for this problem?

The only real bug that still seems to remain is this:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11504#post11504

Anytime you trade for a guy during the offseason his numbers will show up fine during the next season, however when you end the season and then look at his player card you will get some junk stats for him during that season that includes his current team, the team he never played for that year and negative numbers. For instance I traded for Okafor after the first season during the period where you can renounce contracts. During the next season his stats showed up fine in his player card, however as soon as I end the season and re-look at his player card it shows these numbers for 2005[note, the bulls were the team that traded for him, and he didn't play a single game for the bobcats in the 2005 season, he was traded during the offseason between the 2004 and 2005 seasons]:

Season Team G GS MPG PPG Points FGA FGM
2005 Bulls 0 1 0.0 0.0 -80 -54 -25....negative numbers on down
2005 Bobcats 79 78 35.6 14.1 1114 959 449...copy of his 2004 stats
2004 Bobcats 79 78 35.6 14.1 1114 959 449...his 2004 stats

In the future the player is no longer affected by this, but his 2005 stats are lost for good and his career numbers are FUBAR'ed as a result. This only happens when a player is traded during the off-season. Any chance of a fix for this?
the logo is missing because it is missing in the download package, try find one online like this one here: http://www.upn45phoenix.com/images/suns_logo.gif

[Izulde]

I'm also of the opinion that the playoff injuries should be toned down at least somewhat.

TPB 2005 is probably the best text sim I've ever played though and pro basketball isn't even my favourite sport.

[MizzouRah]

Actually, the Suns logo just needs renamed.. at least that's all I did. If you need more help on this, send me a PM and I'll check it when I get home and send you the file if needed.


Todd

[dubb93]

thanks guys, got the suns logo working.

[dubb93]

BUMP

The negative stats bug ever going to get fixed?

[streetballer22]

BUMP

The negative stats bug ever going to get fixed?

Wondering the same...

[jbmagic]

BUMP

The negative stats bug ever going to get fixed?

i am wondering too

Gary any word on when next patch coming and what going to be fix on it?

thanks

[Gary Gorski]

I will take a look at the stats/trade issue although there is no set time on another update - all I can say right now is that there definitely will be one

[Gary Gorski]

BTW, just a couple of quick notes on this.

1. The career stats of a player do not get screwed up by this - they are stored as a separate number in the code itself, what is being messed up is the year by year stat view.

2. There is something you can do in the meantime to alleviate the problem. If you go into your saves/leaguename folder there is a file called career.tpb - if you open that file with a database editing program like MS Access you will see a table in there called Season Stats - simply go into that table and delete these incorrect rows that are showing up and then when you look at his player card it should be fine.

[Flasch186]

where can one get real roster file? 2005. I cant find it.

found it:

http://www.cooleys.org/tbp/