OT: G/F and I bickering about what's really in a Philly Cheese steak

[Hurst2112]

Ok, I got invited to lunch on Sunday by a friend (client). He wanted to meet at this place that has 'the best philly cheese steaks in the metro' as he put it.

I told this to my girlfriend. I said that it better have cheese whiz on it cause nobody around Minneapolis makes them right. She looked at me like I was on crack. She said she has never had a cheese steak sandwhich with cheese whiz, or processed cheese. I told her that she has never had a real cheese steak sandwhich then. She thinks I don't know what I am talking about.

So, anybody else know the official cheese for a philly cheese steak? Up here, they all come with provolone or some other white cheese. Not what I thought was authentic. I watched the food network and saw places in Phil. make them with cheese whiz. There was a place back in Wisconsin that made them similar.

anyone?

[cuervo72]

I don't think I would have a problem with either, but then I grew up outside the city limits, so maybe I should be disqualified.

What I *do* have a problem with is what they do in Maryland - and that is put lettuce and tomato on them. That's just not right.

[KWhit]

A Cheesesteak with Cheese Wiz?? That sounds disgusting.

[Karlifornia]

Cheez Whiz is absolutely revolting. In fact, I'd say it's monocle-droppingly revolting.

[cuervo72]

To clarify though, I would think that the cheese steak would predate cheez whiz (maybe not velveeta though), so I would lean towards provolone.

[Comey]

Cheez Whiz is on the original. Of course, there are variations.

Whiz and sauce is the original, though.

[KWhit]

Provolone, cheddar, whatever. Put brie on it if you want, but not Cheez Wiz.

[Comey]

Dola,

I consider myself a cheesesteak expert, in that I have them a lot. What makes the cheesesteak isn't the cheese, but the roll. I believe it's the D'Ambrosio company that makes the rolls you get in Philly.

We have the benefit of getting those rolls fresh in Harrisburg cheesteak shops daily. It's really the best roll I've ever had...no idea what's done differently.

-John

[Comey]

Provolone, cheddar, whatever. Put brie on it if you want, but not Cheez Wiz.
I didn't think I'd like it, until I tried it. It's great, actually (especially since it's hot whiz...they don't keep it in a bucket and dish it out cold or at room temp.)

[gottimd]

I have the recipe to Pats Cheesesteak somewhere around the apartment. Best Cheesesteaks in Philly.

[Comey]

I totally disagree there (provolone or swiss). But, such is life.

[VPI97]

A Cheesesteak with Cheese Wiz?? That sounds disgusting. Agreed.

Provolone or swiss is the correct answer.

[Comey]

I used to have white american, mayo and hot peppers on mine religiously. Now I go with either whiz or american, hot and sweet peppers, and mayo.

[Comey]

From my days running a sub shop named Phillys...

Many people would come in and tell whats in a philly, and much of the time it would be something altogether new. One day, guy came in and told us it wasnt about the meat, or the cheese, or fixin's, or how it was cooked. it is all about the bread. As I am told, there is a bakery in Pilly that sells to many of the "philly" style sub shops, and it is their bread that gives all of the different sandwiches their regional style.
See above for one of my posts.

[Fritz]

From my days running a sub shop named Phillys...

Many people would come in and tell whats in a philly, and much of the time it would be something altogether new. One day, a guy came in and told us it wasn't about the meat, or the cheese, or fixin's, or how it was cooked. it is all about the bread. As I am told, there is a bakery in Pilly that sells to many of the "philly" style sub shops, and it is their bread that gives all of the different sandwiches their regional style.

fwiw, I prefered my philly with white american cheese.

[Pyser]

cheese wiz is very common in philly. but i think the "default" cheese is provolone.

regardless, as long as there is marinara sauce involved, and no mayo, lettuce, tomato, or anything like that, youre fine. oh, and peppers an onions are recommended, but not required.

and the meat has to be diced up! thats key. real cheese steaks dont just have long strips of thin meat. its got to be chopped to hell on the grill, while melting the cheese.

[henry296]

I've been to many of the cheesesteak places in Philly's. While the whiz is a popular option, you'll never get a bad reaction asking for another cheese. Provolone and American also being popular choices. I prefer mine with Provolone and Fried Onions.

Todd

[KevinNU7]

Alot of clueless people on here. Here's a little help for everyone, Cheese-Steak is different from Steak & Cheese.

[cuervo72]

I've never heard of swiss.

And yeah, good with onions and mushrooms. I guess they're technically fried, though I usually think of fried as having breading...

(grilled?)

[Karlifornia]

I didn't think I'd like it, until I tried it. It's great, actually (especially since it's hot whiz...they don't keep it in a bucket and dish it out cold or at room temp.)
Yeah I really hate the taste of whiz unless it's hot whiz. You know-fresh, hot whiz.

[Desnudo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesesteak

It does list Cheez Whiz as one of the four possible cheeses. Of course it also says that in parts of New England, they call it a "steak bomb."

[cuervo72]

Hey, they mention Amoroso's...their rolls are fantastic (I miss them here in Maryland).

[WSUCougar]

Ah, a subject near and dear to my heart.

My wife is from Philadelphia, and I lived there for 6+ years myself. I ate a lot of cheesesteaks in Philly, and I've tried a lot of them since. Those are my credentials, for what it's worth.

Here's my take:

1. Many of the die-hards in Philly claim Cheese Wiz is indeed the "original" cheese for a cheesesteak. This is mainly due to Pat's Steaks (http://www.patskingofsteaks.com/cheesesteak.htm) which claims them as their own and usually gets all the publicity (like for football games, John Madden, etc.).

2. For the most part, I concur with those who have said it's all about the roll. Most non-Philadelphian cheesesteak iterations screw that part up, and thus don't capture the right taste at all. However...

3. It is easy to blaspheme. The most common bastardizations include green peppers, mushrooms, and some kind of sauce as standard equipment. Those are options in Philly. A straight cheesesteak is meat, cheese, and the roll. Onions are close to being a given, too, with the option of grilled or fresh.

4. The worst attempt I ever saw was in Ohio, where they had a chain of sub shops that advertised "hot buttered cheesesteaks." We were visiting some friends and finally ordered one just to try it, and it amounted to a shoddy roll, buttered, with a minute steak on it. Yummy.

5. Best cheesesteaks I ever tasted were off the food trucks at Temple University in North Philly. Lordy, were they good.

6. If you're ever in Philly, don't order "a Philadelphia steak sandwich." They will laugh at you, then throw batteries at your head. It's a "cheesesteak." A "cheesesteak with" means with onions. Ketchup is okay, mayonaise is marginal, but don't order mustard or they'll kill you. :D

My two cents, anyway.

[Comey]

Ah, THAT's the name! I could never get it right.

[Hurst2112]

Ah, a subject near and dear to my heart.

My wife is from Philadelphia, and I lived there for 6+ years myself. I ate a lot of cheesesteaks in Philly, and I've tried a lot of them since. Those are my credentials, for what it's worth.

Here's my take:

1. Many of the die-hards in Philly claim Cheese Wiz is indeed the "original" cheese for a cheesesteak. This is mainly due to Pat's Steaks (http://www.patskingofsteaks.com/cheesesteak.htm) which claims them as their own and usually gets all the publicity (like for football games, John Madden, etc.).

2. For the most part, I concur with those who have said it's all about the roll. Most non-Philadelphian cheesesteak iterations screw that part up, and thus don't capture the right taste at all. However...

3. It is easy to blaspheme. The most common bastardizations include green peppers, mushrooms, and some kind of sauce as standard equipment. Those are options in Philly. A straight cheesesteak is meat, cheese, and the roll. Onions are close to being a given, too, with the option of grilled or fresh.

4. The worst attempt I ever saw was in Ohio, where they had a chain of sub shops that advertised "hot buttered cheesesteaks." We were visiting some friends and finally ordered one just to try it, and it amounted to a shoddy roll, buttered, with a minute steak on it. Yummy.

5. Best cheesesteaks I ever tasted were off the food trucks at Temple University in North Philly. Lordy, were they good.

6. If you're ever in Philly, don't order "a Philadelphia steak sandwich." They will laugh at you, then throw batteries at your head. It's a "cheesesteak." A "cheesesteak with" means with onions. Ketchup is okay, mayonaise is marginal, but don't order mustard or they'll kill you. :D

My two cents, anyway.


Printing this out for the 'ol lady to read. Thanks. :D

[cuervo72]

6. If you're ever in Philly, don't order "a Philadelphia steak sandwich." They will laugh at you, then throw batteries at your head. It's a "cheesesteak." A "cheesesteak with" means with onions. Ketchup is okay, mayonaise is marginal, but don't order mustard or they'll kill you. :D


I *constantly* took shit from my dad for often putting on all three when my mom would make them at home with steak-ums...thought I was nuts.

[Desnudo]

I just finished reading the article. I found this note pretty funny:

"During a campaign stop in Philadelphia on August 11, 2003, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry requested a cheesesteak with Swiss cheese at Pat's Steaks (Cheesesteak bites Kerry (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/6528601.htm)). In political terms, this nontraditional choice was a serious miscalculation, as it could help reinforce images of Kerry as effete, aloof, and out of touch with the average American. The owner of Pat's Steaks convinced Kerry to change his order, but the incident nevertheless earned Kerry some ridicule in the press."

Not quit Dukakis in a tank, but nonetheless.

[cuervo72]

Oh, I think I will have to stop at the pizza place around the corner tonight...

[BrianD]

I've never heard of swiss.

And yeah, good with onions and mushrooms. I guess they're technically fried, though I usually think of fried as having breading...

(grilled?)

I think 'grilled' and 'fried' get intermixed often. I tend to think of 'grilled' using an open flame, while 'fried' is either battered or made in a frying pan. The only exception to that is the local 'brat fry' which includes only grilling and no frying.

Actually...forget I said anything. I'm not sure a guy from Wisconsin is allowed to comment on cooking topics.

[condors]

i work by those lunch trucks by Temple and the best one closed up shop because he got robbed so he retired :( his son reopened but its not the same.

It don't really matter the cheese type but it must be melted on the grill and poured into the sandwhich and the roll should be placed on the grill prior to being filled so its a little toasted on top. good stuff

i like mine with peporoni onions and sauce

[sabotai]

I've come to a decision that effects none of you.

I am NEVER leaving this area....EVER. I had a chessesteak once in some place in Florida quite awhile ago. I don't even remember the name of the place. It was....shameful. I thought it was probably just an isolated incident. I guess not. If you people in the other parts of the country can't get a fuckin cheesesteak right....well that's just not living to me.

[st.cronin]

I've come to a decision that effects none of you.

I am NEVER leaving this area....EVER. I had a chessesteak once in some place in Florida quite awhile ago. I don't even remember the name of the place. It was....shameful. I thought it was probably just an isolated incident. I guess not. If you people in the other parts of the country can't get a fuckin cheesesteak right....well that's just not living to me.

Oddly enough, the best cheesesteak I ever had was in Iceland.

[Raiders Army]

My credentials are I lived in Pennsylvania and I've watched the Eagles and Phillies on TV:

I'd go with probably toe. It might be butt cheese, but I think it's probably toecheese.

[Hurst2112]

Actually...forget I said anything. I'm not sure a guy from Wisconsin is allowed to comment on cooking topics.

That is somewhat funny. I hate to be THAT guy....er...

;) :D

[astrosfan64]

Cheez Whiz is on the original. Of course, there are variations.

Whiz and sauce is the original, though.

Pats and Ginos both use Cheese whiz I believe. The pizza steak is popular also.

[weinstein7]

A slight tangent: any of you NYers ever get a cheesesteak from BB's down on W 3rd? Not at all a philly, but a very interesting (and tasty, IMHO) sandwich nonetheless.

(and just to add to what others have already said, a true "philly" is made with cheese wiz, although I'm a provolone man myself.)

[ISiddiqui]

It's all about the Cheez-Whiz for an authentic Philly cheesesteak. For your other Steak-and-Cheese, use whatever you want.

[Masked]

A slight tangent: any of you NYers ever get a cheesesteak from BB's down on W 3rd? Not at all a philly, but a very interesting (and tasty, IMHO) sandwich nonetheless.

(and just to add to what others have already said, a true "philly" is made with cheese wiz, although I'm a provolone man myself.) The cheesesteak from BB's was good, but way too small.

[Airhog]

Yeah I really hate the taste of jiz unless it's hot jiz. You know-fresh, hot jiz.

Fixed it for ya!

[weinstein7]

The cheesesteak from BB's was good, but way too small.

That's true, you need 1.5 cheesesteaks to make an adequate lunch. Gotta go in pairs.

I just applaud any dining establishment that has only one item on the menu. You know they're not messing around.

[Coffee Warlord]

Remind me never to eat a cheesesteak in Philly. They'd prolly lynch me if they saw how I make/prefer philly steaks.

Meat, swiss/provolone, red & green peppers, mushrooms, onions, A-1. Yummy.

[Eaglesfan27]

I've come to a decision that effects none of you.

I am NEVER leaving this area....EVER. I had a chessesteak once in some place in Florida quite awhile ago. I don't even remember the name of the place. It was....shameful. I thought it was probably just an isolated incident. I guess not. If you people in the other parts of the country can't get a fuckin cheesesteak right....well that's just not living to me.
Besides friends and family, I think I miss real cheesesteaks the most. There is a place here in New Orleans that claims to have "Philly Cheesesteaks" but it isn't even close to authentic.

[sabotai]

Remind me never to eat a cheesesteak in Philly. They'd prolly lynch me if they saw how I make/prefer philly steaks.

Meat, swiss/provolone, red & green peppers, mushrooms, onions, A-1. Yummy.

......shameful.

For now on, I drink instant coffee just out of spite for you.

[sabotai]

Besides friends and family, I think I miss real cheesesteaks the most. Their is a place here in New Orleans that claims to have "Philly Cheesesteaks" but it isn't even close to authentic.

Wow. A life without a real cheesesteak. Don't even tell me how they screw up the pizza steaks, I don't want to know.....do they even have pizza steaks down there?

[Eaglesfan27]

Wow. A life without a real cheesesteak. Don't even tell me how they screw up the pizza steaks, I don't want to know.....do they even have pizza steaks down there?
One place does, but like you said, it is screwed up. I need to take another trip up to see my family soon (and get a good cheesesteak.)

[weinstein7]

What's a pizza steak? I don't think those made it over to jersey, or at least not by that name.

And while we're on the subject of local cuisines, I'd like to give a shout-out to the garbage plate. Jim, you lived in Rochester, you know what I'm talking about.

[Coffee Warlord]

......shameful.

For now on, I drink instant coffee just out of spite for you.

As you wish. My Inquisitors will be visiting you shortly to take your confession.

[General Mike]

you know, in all this time that I've lived in New Jersey, I've never gone to Philly and gotten a cheesesteak.

Cheese Wiz is damn good tho.

[sabotai]

What's a pizza steak? I don't think those made it over to jersey, or at least not by that name.

Sure they have. I get them everywhere by me, they have them down by the college I went to (Stockton, near Atlantic City) and I've gotten them up by Rutgers.

[Z²+]

If it doesn't have french fries and cole slaw on it, it's not a real sandwich.

[stevew]

From my days running a sub shop named Phillys...

Many people would come in and tell whats in a philly, and much of the time it would be something altogether new. One day, a guy came in and told us it wasn't about the meat, or the cheese, or fixin's, or how it was cooked. it is all about the bread. As I am told, there is a bakery in Pilly that sells to many of the "philly" style sub shops, and it is their bread that gives all of the different sandwiches their regional style.

fwiw, I prefered my philly with white american cheese.


That the one on Tidewater drive? They had great steak subs.

[wade moore]

That the one on Tidewater drive? They had great steak subs.


*jots down notes*...

They make decent cheesesteaks at the 'deli's' in williamsburg, but I've had better... might have to check this place out..

[weinstein7]

Sure they have. I get them everywhere by me, they have them down by the college I went to (Stockton, near Atlantic City) and I've gotten them up by Rutgers.

Guess I just haven't seen them then. What's in it? I like pizza and I like steak, so I'm definitely intrigued.

[henry296]

What's a pizza steak? I don't think those made it over to jersey, or at least not by that name.

And while we're on the subject of local cuisines, I'd like to give a shout-out to the garbage plate. Jim, you lived in Rochester, you know what I'm talking about.

A pizza steak has marinara sauce on the top.

[weinstein7]

That's it? Ok, yeah, I guess I've seen that. I thought it was going to be something a little more dramatic.

Oh, and FWIW, best cheesesteak I've ever had IS from Pat's....but that's Pat's in Brick, NJ, not in Philly. Just amazing. Can't recommend it strongly enough.

[JimboJ]

A pizza steak has marinara sauce on the top.

Usually a pizza steak is where they take a regular cheesesteak, open it up, spread pizza sauce and mozzarella cheese on it, and stick it under a broiler until the cheese melts. Yummy!

By the way, I've had many cheesesteaks at Pat's and Geno's in Philly, and just from standing in line listening to other people's orders, I'd say more people get their's with Cheez Wiz over american or provolone.

[Pyser]

That's it? Ok, yeah, I guess I've seen that. I thought it was going to be something a little more dramatic.

Oh, and FWIW, best cheesesteak I've ever had IS from Pat's....but that's Pat's in Brick, NJ, not in Philly. Just amazing. Can't recommend it strongly enough.

Point Pleasant, NJ, actually. But yes, incredible stuff.

Though I've recently rediscovered Lee's in Philly (well, Philly suburbs. Don't know if it's in Philly proper). So damn good. And big. And...$12 bucks for a cheesteak?! They are damn lucky its delicious.

[sabotai]

Usually a pizza steak is where they take a regular cheesesteak, open it up, spread pizza sauce and mozzarella cheese on it, and stick it under a broiler until the cheese melts. Yummy!

Damn right Yummy. It's sooooooo good.

[paperstreetsoap]

Penn Station makes a good Philly cheesesteak. But I usually stick to an Italian sub.

[paperstreetsoap]

BTW, I have never seen anyone get Cheese Whiz on a cheesesteak. Hmm.

[bosshogg23]

Just like to say that you are all making me hungry and since I live in Philly im gonna have a cheesesteak. Not with lettuce & onions & tomatos, thats a hoagie(on the menu at least). With Provolone as well, though American is fine.

[Daimyo]

...has to have onions and white american cheese to be a cheesesteak IMO.

[RendeR]

Anyone who considers "cheeze whiz" to be authentic for ANYTHING is a pathetic excuse for a human being.

[QuikSand]

Seems to me there is a divide between those whose primary allegiance is to being "authentic" and those whose primary allegiance is to being "good."

Personally, I don't much care whether an authentic cheesesteak has Whiz, I'm more of a fan of actual cheese -- either provolone or even American (yes, cheese food) works for me just fine. And I also don't see why I ought to be beholden to select from some strict condiment list becaue some Pennsylvania half-wit did so back in the day.

But the whole debate about how other people are terrible heathens for doing something other than... uh... well, other than what some people in or near Philly may or may not have done at some point in the past... it's fascinating.

If that means I'm only having a steak-and-cheese, rather than a cheesesteak -- Well, I hope I can manage to trudge through the rest of my life bearing that burden.

[cuervo72]

But woe be to the soul who has crabcakes without shells or seafood without heaping mounds of Old Bay...

[Comey]

Anyone who considers "cheeze whiz" to be authentic for ANYTHING is a pathetic excuse for a human being.
I was going to reply to this rather harshly, but then I read the first part of your sig, and I just had to nod and agree. ;)

[WSUCougar]

Penn Station makes a good Philly cheesesteak.
Agreed. They're probably the closest to "authentic" that we've tasted in a chain restaurant.

[sabotai]

Seems to me there is a divide between those whose primary allegiance is to being "authentic" and those whose primary allegiance is to being "good."

Personally, I don't much care whether an authentic cheesesteak has Whiz, I'm more of a fan of actual cheese -- either provolone or even American (yes, cheese food) works for me just fine. And I also don't see why I ought to be beholden to select from some strict condiment list becaue some Pennsylvania half-wit did so back in the day.

But the whole debate about how other people are terrible heathens for doing something other than... uh... well, other than what some people in or near Philly may or may not have done at some point in the past... it's fascinating.

If that means I'm only having a steak-and-cheese, rather than a cheesesteak -- Well, I hope I can manage to trudge through the rest of my life bearing that burden.

Geez...we're only kidding around. Way to bring the room down. You must be a blast at parties. ;)

[bbor]

Why do Americans call it American cheese?.....why not Processed cheese like the rest of us?

I actually walked out of a restaraunt once in Buffalo cause they insisted they only have American cheese not processed cheese.. :confused:

[sabotai]

Why do Americans call it American cheese?.....why not Processed cheese like the rest of us?

Because "American Cheese" is what it was called when it was created.

http://www.kraft.com/100/founders/JLKraft.html

Notice the pic of the tin can on the left (that's how it was originally sold).

I decided to look it up. Yes, I'm bored. :)

[sovereignstar]

Anyone who considers "American cheese" to be cheese is a pathetic excuse for a human being.

My version.

[Vince]

Jersey's in Campbell has the best Cheesesteak's I've had in California. Steak, Peppers, Onions, (Mushrooms, which I leave off) and Swiss or Provolone Cheese. Phenomenal stuff.

[Hurst2112]

http://www.glossynews.com/artman/uploads/unitedstates_of_cheese.jpg

[Hurst2112]

I remember being on welfare as a kid, and looking forward to grilled cheese sammys with the monthly handout of free government cheese. Best grilled cheese I have eaten or will ever eat.

[WSUCougar]

I remember being on welfare as a kid, and looking forward to grilled cheese sammys with the monthly handout of free government cheese. Best grilled cheese I have eaten or will ever eat.
Reminds of when I started dating my wife, and her family had one of those message board things next to their phone. One of the notes was for "Cheese Information" (regarding the government cheese you mention), and I used to tease her with fake calls to this info line.

"Yes, hello? Can you tell me a little more about gouda?"

*cough*

You had to be there... :o

[Hurst2112]

I do get it, and it is funny.

[sovereignstar]

I remember being on welfare as a kid

Instead of wasting the taxpayers' money perhaps you could've gotten a job in the coal mines.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I have the recipe to Pats Cheesesteak somewhere around the apartment. Best Cheesesteaks in Philly.

Wit onions. Definetly wit onions.

And the fries are THE best...

[tanglewood]

Wait, there's no Phillidelphian in a Philly cheesesteak? I want my money back....

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Wait, there's no Phillidelphian in a Philly cheesesteak? I want my money back....
I think you're thinking of a Philly Tubesteak...

[Bomber]

No Whiz = Not Real.

[Bomber]

Pat's King of Steaks® Philadelphia Cheese Steak recipe

For all the people who can not get to South Philadelphia to get the Original. here is the recipe for you home chefs.

Serves 4

24oz thin sliced rib eye or eye roll steak

6 table spoons of Soya bean oil

Cheese {we recommend Cheez Whiz®} American or Provolone works fine

4 crusty Italian Rolls

1 large Spanish onion

Optional

sweet green and red peppers sautéed in oil

Mushrooms sautéed in oil

Assembly

Heat an iron skillet or a non stick pan over medium heat

add3 table spoons of oil to the pan and sauté the onions to desired doneness

remove the onions

add the remaining oil and sauté the slices of meat quickly on both sides

melt the cheez Whiz® in a double boiler or in the microwave

place 6oz. of the meat into the rolls

add onions, and pour the Cheez Whiz® over top

garnish with hot or fried sweet peppers, mushrooms, ketchup

Put on the theme song to the first Rocky movie and enjoy!

[Hurst2112]

Instead of wasting the taxpayers' money perhaps you could've gotten a job in the coal mines.

...what? Starring in child porn doesn't count as a job. Just because I didn't pay taxes...come on!
:p :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

[JediKooter]

The only way is 'wit'. Out here in California they think a phily cheese steak sandwhich has flipping green peppers on it and provalone cheese. wtf??? If it isnt cheese wiz and onions, it aint a phily cheese steak. :)

[mhass]

When ordering in a Philly shop, if you know what you're saying, you say "One with Whiz" or "One with Prove." Those are both acceptable options. No strange looks. But authentic, as stated before, is Whiz. Certainly.