2.75

[Glengoyne]

I paid 2.75 for gas today.

I pumped it myself. It was "regular".


I fear that this is going to be the norm for the next several years. We'll find ourselves yearning for the times that we paid 1.75/gallon.

[cartman]

When I drove the 25 foot Penske truck from the Bay Area to Austin last June, the price of 89 octane was $3.19 in Barstow.

It's only gonna get worse if the price per barrel hits $100 like some are predicting. Then again, it is a non-renewable resource that is only gonna last at most another 50 years, if that long.

[gottimd]

I paid 2.75 for gas today.

I pumped it myself. It was "regular".


I fear that this is going to be the norm for the next several years. We'll find ourselves yearning for the times that we paid 1.75/gallon.

I paid a $.05 for a gallon. I drove my edsel up to the station, and the bells rang, and three guys came out in there white uniforms and pumped the gas for me.

[Ksyrup]

Damn. We're up to around $2.33-2.38 around here. I'm expecting $2.50 soon.

[Tigercat]

I remember vacationing in San Fran in 1999, and being completely stunned that people were paying 2.20+ for gas there. Its not so stunning anymore, not after paying 2.28 a gallon yesturday.

[Ryan S]

Just drove past a station selling diesel at $6.50 per gallon.

[Passacaglia]

I heard on the news this morning that they expect the national average to peak at 2.35 per gallon in May.

Edit: Hey, my first timestamp bug!

[cartman]

Just drove past a station selling diesel at $6.50 per gallon.

how long did it take you to do the conversion from Pounds per litre to Dollars per gallon?

:D

[gottimd]

$2.25-$2.30 around here. Outrageous. I remember when I was younger and my parents complaining about the price when it was around .90-.95 per gallon.

[Ksyrup]

The cheapest I can ever remember paying for gas was $.77 in Georgia during college (probably around 1990).

[Raiders Army]

All this does is make me more pissed when I'm taking the nozzle out and gas drizzles down on my fuel compartment...those aren't cents any more drizzling out...those are dimes!

[flere-imsaho]

I know we're all annoyed now, but at what price do you start to make changes? Like "I'm selling the truck and buying a sedan". Or "We're getting a hybrid".

I'm just curious.

Both of our cars get over 30 mpg, and we commute together, so I don't see any big changes in our (immediate) future.

[HomerJSimpson]

I know we're all annoyed now, but at what price do you start to make changes? Like "I'm selling the truck and buying a sedan". Or "We're getting a hybrid".

I'm just curious.

Both of our cars get over 30 mpg, and we commute together, so I don't see any big changes in our (immediate) future.

I did it last summer. I couldn't get a hybrid (none available, and too pricey) but I did trade down to a smaller car with better gas milage. I hate not having as much room, but I'm glad I made the trade every time I fill up.

[Ksyrup]

I know we're all annoyed now, but at what price do you start to make changes? Like "I'm selling the truck and buying a sedan". Or "We're getting a hybrid".

I'm just curious.

Both of our cars get over 30 mpg, and we commute together, so I don't see any big changes in our (immediate) future.

Good question. Right now, I've got a 1999 626 that gets around 25 MPG, and my wife has a 2002 Odyssey (not sure what her MPG is). There's no way we'll give up the Odyssey (we didn't want an SUV, and I'm sure when it's time to get rid of this one, we'll probably get another one), and my next car, which I hope to put off buying for at least 2 years, will be a sedan. If gas is over $3 a gallon in 2007, I might consider buying a hybrid. Otherwise, I'll just buy whatever sedan I can afford.

[Logan]

Just over $2 here in Jersey. And we get people to pump it for us.

[Raiders Army]

Just over $2 here in Jersey. And we get people to pump it for us.
Nothing against you, but I hate that fucking law in NJ. I'll pump my own gas, thank you. I don't tip and I hate waiting for some schmuck to get done filling up three other cars while I'm at an empty pump.

[MacroGuru]

2.19 here in Utah....I hate it...

[Tigercat]

Wait wait wait a second. I've never driven through Jersey before, nor heard of their gas pumping procedures. Are y'all saying that there are laws in NJ requireing gas pumps to be full service?! Thats insane if so.

[Ksyrup]

Wait wait wait a second. I've never driven through Jersey before, nor heard of their gas pumping procedures. Are y'all saying that there are laws in NJ requireing gas pumps to be full service?! Thats insane if so.Yep, it's true.

That, and those stupid-ass three-right-turns-to-make-a left setups they have there piss me off. Of course, I've only been there twice and will never go back if I can help it.

[Ryan S]

I know we're all annoyed now, but at what price do you start to make changes? Like "I'm selling the truck and buying a sedan". Or "We're getting a hybrid".
I don't think it will happen. We pay far, far, far, far more than you do, and I don't think about fuel economy at all when buying a car. There are tons of SUVs with huge engines on the road over here.

[Raiders Army]

Taken from another website:
The Garden State is one of two states where it's illegal to fill 'er up yourself. Only gas station owners or employees can pump gas in New Jersey and Oregon -- "the only two states atavistic, sadistic, and masochistic enough to still require thousands of 'professionals' to waste time, money, and inconvenience customers," according to one columnist.
The ban on self-service gas stations is a highly combustible issue and makes for some heated debates. New Jersey passed the law making it illegal to pump your own gas in 1949. At the time, legislators felt it was too dangerous to have untrained people dispensing such a flammable liquid.

That may have been sensible at the time, but pumping gas is much safer today, and some motorists feel the ban is outdated and needs to go. Opponents of the law argue that removing it would lower the cost of gas and make refueling much quicker and more convenient. Proponents of the ban argue that it creates jobs and customers like full service.

[fantastic flying froggies]

I don't think it will happen. We pay far, far, far, far more than you do, and I don't think about fuel economy at all when buying a car. There are tons of SUVs with huge engines on the road over here.
True, but the US has the biggest consumption of fuel in the world. If they tried to save just a few % of their total, it could possibly lower the prices...

[cartman]

True, but the US has the biggest consumption of fuel in the world. If they tried to save just a few % of their total, it could possibly lower the prices...

So that the Chinese can take up the slack! Once India and China get more industrialized, their consumption will far out pace the US's.

[st.cronin]

So that the Chinese can take up the slack! Once India and China get more industrialized, their consumption will far out pace the US's.

A very good point. What some people fail to realize (or pretend to overlook) when they accuse Bush et al. of going to war for oil is that the EU and Asia is (and will be in the future) far more dependent on Middle Eastern oil than the US.

[fantastic flying froggies]

So that the Chinese can take up the slack! Once India and China get more industrialized, their consumption will far out pace the US's.
You're absolutely right. Nevertheless, right now, you guys lead the pack.

[flere-imsaho]

A very good point. What some people fail to realize (or pretend to overlook) when they accuse Bush et al. of going to war for oil is that the EU and Asia is (and will be in the future) far more dependent on Middle Eastern oil than the US.

Ah, so Bush has spent countless American lives to ensure Oil for America for the future. Good to know.

[Ksyrup]

No, we just like killing people. Oil is just the fringe benefit.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Please don't start another War in Iraq political debate thread!

For info, I googled oil consumption and found the following 2003 stats Those are bbl/day by the way.

<TABLE width=405 bgColor=#cccccc border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=right>1</TD><TD></TD><TD>World (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/world/world_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>76,210,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>2</TD><TD></TD><TD>United States (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/united_states/united_states_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>19,650,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>3</TD><TD></TD><TD>Japan (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/japan/japan_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>5,290,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>4</TD><TD></TD><TD>China (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/china/china_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>4,975,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>5</TD><TD></TD><TD>Germany (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/germany/germany_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,813,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>6</TD><TD></TD><TD>Russia (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/russia/russia_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,595,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>7</TD><TD></TD><TD>Brazil (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/brazil/brazil_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,199,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>8</TD><TD></TD><TD>Korea, South (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/korea_south/korea_south_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,140,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>9</TD><TD></TD><TD>India (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/india/india_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,130,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>10</TD><TD></TD><TD>France (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/france/france_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,026,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>11</TD><TD></TD><TD>Italy (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/italy/italy_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,866,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>12</TD><TD></TD><TD>United Kingdom (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/united_kingdom/united_kingdom_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,710,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>13</TD><TD></TD><TD>Canada (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/canada/canada_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,703,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>14</TD><TD></TD><TD>Mexico (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/mexico/mexico_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,507,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>15</TD><TD></TD><TD>Spain (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/spain/spain_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,497,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>16</TD><TD></TD><TD>Saudi Arabia (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/saudi_arabia/saudi_arabia_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,452,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>17</TD><TD></TD><TD>Iran (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/iran/iran_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,277,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>18</TD><TD></TD><TD>Indonesia (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/indonesia/indonesia_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,045,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>19</TD><TD></TD><TD>Taiwan (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/taiwan/taiwan_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>988,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>20</TD><TD></TD><TD>Netherlands (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/netherlands/netherlands_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>895,300</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That's only the top 20. Full rankings can be found at
http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/rankings/oil_consumption_0.html

The US use roughly 25% of world consumption. That is quite a lot just for one single country, however great it is.

[st.cronin]

What you are missing there is how much of the US consumption comes from the Middle East. It's a lower percentage than the EU.

[fantastic flying froggies]

What you are missing there is how much of the US consumption comes from the Middle East. It's a lower percentage than the EU.
I'll take your word for it (i can't seem to find anything on the web), but what difference does it make?

Right now, what's driving the price up is simply the principle of supply and demand. Almost all refineries are producing at full steam and it still is not enough to meet the demand.

Ergo, the way to lower the price is to either producre more, and i'm not sure that's possible right now, or decrease consumption.

[sooner333]

cheapest gas I remember is $.70 in 1998. Now it's $2.28 in the same area.

[Logan]

God damn is it possible to have any threads where people don't rip Jersey? :)

I have never once pumped my own gas. This is because in the 5 years I've been driving myself around, I have either not ventured far enough outside Jersey where I couldn't fill up before leaving and then again when coming back in, or I've been with a friend who does pump their own gas and did it for me.

Reminds me of a time I was coming home from visiting a friend at U. of Maryland. I was in the car with my roommate (Jersey born and raised). We were about 20 minutes outside Jersey in Delaware (translation: just into Delaware) and I was dangerously low on gas. Pull into a station...and wait...and wait some more. Finally we realize that this isn't Jersey and we were expected to pump our own shit. Needless to say, we drove into Jersey on fumes, and got some gas there.

You would think that with the added expense of hiring gas attendants, the cost would be higher, but I'm pretty sure NJ is close to being the cheapest gas in the country. Our ridiculously high consumption probably helps with that.

And I've never once tipped for gas, as I either always use a credit card to fill up, or ask for $5 or 10 cash.

[sabotai]

Still under $2 a gallon here in South Jersey

The reason our gas is so cheap is because our gas tax is so low. I think it's the lowest in the nation because we have a lot of highways that use toll booths. Plus, all the traffic from out of state that uses the NJ Turnpike (when I was in high school, they said it was the most heavily traveled road in the world. After trying to drive on it during rush hour one weekday night, I beleived them) adds in a lot ot the tolls collected.

And I have never tipped for gas. I never even heard of tipping for gas.

[Huckleberry]

I don't think it will happen. We pay far, far, far, far more than you do, and I don't think about fuel economy at all when buying a car. There are tons of SUVs with huge engines on the road over here.
Yeah, but how far can you possibly be driving?

We have counties in Texas bigger than Scotland. :p

(Yes, I know that's not true.)

[cartman]

God damn is it possible to have any threads where people don't rip Jersey? :)

Ok, how about this for atonement:

Why is it that New Jersey has the most toxic waste sites per capita in the country, and California has the most lawyers per capita in the country?

Because New Jersey got first choice.

:D

[Axxon]

Yeah, but how far can you possibly be driving?

We have counties in Texas bigger than Scotland. :p

(Yes, I know that's not true.)

Texas, bah!

You know what would happen if Alaska was split in half? Texas would be the third largest state in the US. ;)

[tategter]

Around here gas is running at about $2.25.9 per gallon. Do gas stations really need to add to .9 cents anymore?

Also, why do gas stations insist on charging 10 cents more for midgrade and 20 cents for premium? Shouldn't it be based on percentages? If midgrade cost 10% more and premium 20%, then at regular at $1 they would be 1.10 and 1.20. At $2 they would be 2.20 and 2.40.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

[Young Drachma]

Nothing against you, but I hate that fucking law in NJ. I'll pump my own gas, thank you. I don't tip and I hate waiting for some schmuck to get done filling up three other cars while I'm at an empty pump.

It might suck for out of staters, but when it's 15 degrees outside or pouring in a rainstorm, the law works just fine for most of us. That's why it's not going to get repealed. Plus, it creates jobs :)

That was the one good thing about being in Oregon last year for my internship. But there, it seemed that they were really bad about pumping your gas. Like, they'd have one guy working at a place with like 15 gas pumps. That's just stupid. That's not the norm in Jersey.

At least, not as I ever recalled.

[judicial clerk]

These gas prices are ridiculous. I think next turn we should invade Saudi Arabia. I am sure they are violating UN sanctions or persecuting some minority group or something.

[RPI-Fan]

I simply don't understand the "outrageous" or "ridiculous" terms applied to the gas price...

[sterlingice]

I paid a $.05 for a gallon. I drove my edsel up to the station, and the bells rang, and three guys came out in there white uniforms and pumped the gas for me.
Speaking of which, where is Buccaneer these days? http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

SI

[gottimd]

I simply don't understand the "outrageous" or "ridiculous" terms applied to the gas price...

What about Ludicrous? (I know I stepping into this one and Franklin will post a picture of him once he sees this)

[ColtCrazy]

I realize it's a different society, but I feel for people like Ryan S. When I visit family in England, you are talking $5-$6 a gallon. For me, it's nothing to drive 30 miles because I have a White Castle craving. Over there, that's unheard of. My dad, who grew up in England, always said there would be riots the day gas is as expensive here as it is in England. We are half way there.

When will the world finally find a gas alternative? Or closer to the truth, when will a country stand up to the world's oil monopoly?

[Raiders Army]

I have a bunch of natural gas. It's stinky too, FYI.

[duckman]

I was tickled pink today when I saw gas prices dropped to 2.08 here.

[QuikSand]

$2.25-$2.30 around here. Outrageous. I remember when I was younger and my parents complaining about the price when it was around .90-.95 per gallon.

Let's see here .. the complaints about gas costing 90 cents might have been about 1978 or so?

In real buying power (adjusting for the cost of everything else, including the wages and salaries that people have to spend), that translates to $2.65 in today's money.

So, what's the issue? Your family income in 1978 might have been $30,000 ... today the same fmaily with the same standard of living earns $85,000. Gas prices have almost, but not quite, kept up with that pace. But nobody is screaming bloody murder about the price of Wonder bread or basketballs or Sunny Delight. Nope, just gasoline.


Maybe it's a function of the high-visibility of the price... posted right out on the sign.

[Raiders Army]

Let's see here .. the complaints about gas costing 90 cents might have been about 1978 or so?

In real buying power (adjusting for the cost of everything else, including the wages and salaries that people have to spend), that translates to $2.65 in today's money.

So, what's the issue? Your family income in 1978 might have been $30,000 ... today the same fmaily with the same standard of living earns $85,000. Gas prices have almost, but not quite, kept up with that pace. But nobody is screaming bloody murder about the price of Wonder bread or basketballs or Sunny Delight. Nope, just gasoline.


Maybe it's a function of the high-visibility of the price... posted right out on the sign.
I, too, thought the same thing. I think people scream about it because it jumped up so rapidly as opposed to going up a few cents per year.

[Ksyrup]

Let's see here .. the complaints about gas costing 90 cents might have been about 1978 or so?

In real buying power (adjusting for the cost of everything else, including the wages and salaries that people have to spend), that translates to $2.65 in today's money.

So, what's the issue? Your family income in 1978 might have been $30,000 ... today the same fmaily with the same standard of living earns $85,000. Gas prices have almost, but not quite, kept up with that pace. But nobody is screaming bloody murder about the price of Wonder bread or basketballs or Sunny Delight. Nope, just gasoline.


Maybe it's a function of the high-visibility of the price... posted right out on the sign.
It's not just that - it's that prices haven't gone up all that gradually. You're quoting 1978 and 2005. But it's not like we were paying $1.50 in 1990. Rather than putting us in a pot of room-temperature water and slowly increasing the heat, we've been thrown into hot water. You have to expect a bit of screaming when that happens.

[Eaglesfan27]

Wait wait wait a second. I've never driven through Jersey before, nor heard of their gas pumping procedures. Are y'all saying that there are laws in NJ requireing gas pumps to be full service?! Thats insane if so.
I never pumped my own gas til I moved to Louisiana because of that law. I hated having to pump my own gas at first, but now I can't stand the necessity of waiting for someone to pump my gas when I visit NJ.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I paid me 275 $ for 10 gallons of 87 octane. It's pretty bad. TRis time 4 years ago it was around 1.50/gal. and I thought that was ridiculous.

[Crapshoot]

Let's see here .. the complaints about gas costing 90 cents might have been about 1978 or so?

In real buying power (adjusting for the cost of everything else, including the wages and salaries that people have to spend), that translates to $2.65 in today's money.

So, what's the issue? Your family income in 1978 might have been $30,000 ... today the same fmaily with the same standard of living earns $85,000. Gas prices have almost, but not quite, kept up with that pace. But nobody is screaming bloody murder about the price of Wonder bread or basketballs or Sunny Delight. Nope, just gasoline.


Maybe it's a function of the high-visibility of the price... posted right out on the sign.

That, and the general ignorance of the populace regarding economics.

[st.cronin]

Also people do a lot more driving today, so equivalent prices still mean a larger share of one's paycheck.

[sooner333]

I was tickled pink today when I saw gas prices dropped to 2.08 here.

Where? It's 2.15 in Norman (which is what I meant on my previous post). But I wasn't lying when I said it was .70 a gallon seven and a half years ago. and under a buck less than in November of '02.

[gottimd]

That, and the general ignorance of the populace regarding economics.
So are you saying people are ignorant, and not just generally upset about the rising gas/oil prices?

[Arles]

$2.25-$2.30 around here. Outrageous. I remember when I was younger and my parents complaining about the price when it was around .90-.95 per gallon.
Of course, they were probably making less than half that what you are now living in a high-end house valued at around 40K ;)

[Arles]

Please don't start another War in Iraq political debate thread!

For info, I googled oil consumption and found the following 2003 stats Those are bbl/day by the way.

<TABLE width=405 bgColor=#cccccc border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=right>1</TD><TD></TD><TD>World (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/world/world_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>76,210,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>2</TD><TD></TD><TD>United States (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/united_states/united_states_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>19,650,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>3</TD><TD></TD><TD>Japan (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/japan/japan_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>5,290,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>4</TD><TD></TD><TD>China (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/china/china_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>4,975,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>5</TD><TD></TD><TD>Germany (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/germany/germany_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,813,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>6</TD><TD></TD><TD>Russia (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/russia/russia_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,595,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>7</TD><TD></TD><TD>Brazil (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/brazil/brazil_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,199,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>8</TD><TD></TD><TD>Korea, South (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/korea_south/korea_south_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,140,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>9</TD><TD></TD><TD>India (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/india/india_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,130,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>10</TD><TD></TD><TD>France (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/france/france_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,026,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>11</TD><TD></TD><TD>Italy (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/italy/italy_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,866,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>12</TD><TD></TD><TD>United Kingdom (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/united_kingdom/united_kingdom_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,710,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>13</TD><TD></TD><TD>Canada (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/canada/canada_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,703,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>14</TD><TD></TD><TD>Mexico (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/mexico/mexico_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,507,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>15</TD><TD></TD><TD>Spain (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/spain/spain_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,497,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>16</TD><TD></TD><TD>Saudi Arabia (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/saudi_arabia/saudi_arabia_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,452,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>17</TD><TD></TD><TD>Iran (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/iran/iran_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,277,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>18</TD><TD></TD><TD>Indonesia (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/indonesia/indonesia_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,045,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>19</TD><TD></TD><TD>Taiwan (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/taiwan/taiwan_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>988,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>20</TD><TD></TD><TD>Netherlands (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/netherlands/netherlands_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>895,300</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That's only the top 20. Full rankings can be found at
http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/rankings/oil_consumption_0.html

The US use roughly 25% of world consumption. That is quite a lot just for one single country, however great it is.

How about gallons per square foot of real estate? Parts of Europe would put the US to shame if that were the standard. Comparing the US to the UK or Germany is just silly. Driving across both countries would be akin to driving from St. Louis to Texas. The sheer expansive nature of the US from a geographic standpoint means that America will (or should) always need much more gasoline than anyone else. What's crazy to me is how a country about half the size of Texas needs over a quarter of the total gas the entire US needs.

[gottimd]

Of course, they were probably making less than half that what you are now living in a high-end house valued at around 40K ;)

Enough with the economics about the issues, I understand them completely. I am just saying that it sucks, geesh.

[Arles]

Enough with the economics about the issues, I understand them completely. I am just saying that it sucks, geesh.
I answered your post without paging down to see that QS had done it in a much more eloquent manner.

[duckman]

Where?
Southwest Oklahoma City at the 7-Eleven on May and SW 29th street.


It's 2.15 in Norman (which is what I meant on my previous post). But I wasn't lying when I said it was .70 a gallon seven and a half years ago. and under a buck less than in November of '02.
I remember gas being less than a buck in 2002. However, I don't remember gas being quite that low around the time you said it was. I remember being less than .80 when I was in highschool.

[duckman]

That, and the general ignorance of the populace regarding economics.
I think you give most people too little credit inregards to their understanding of supply-and-demand economics.

[Buccaneer]

That, and the general ignorance of the populace regarding economics.
..and gasoline taxes.

Can someone find the chart that shows gasoline prices adjusted for inflation in the past 30-40 years?

Besides, when gas hit above $2.00 a year or two ago and there were gnashings of false teeth here, I didn't hear any outrage when it went back down to the $1.70 range (depending on taxes).

[Dutch]

Please don't start another War in Iraq political debate thread!

For info, I googled oil consumption and found the following 2003 stats Those are bbl/day by the way.

<TABLE width=405 bgColor=#cccccc border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=right>1</TD><TD></TD><TD>World (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/world/world_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>76,210,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>2</TD><TD></TD><TD>United States (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/united_states/united_states_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>19,650,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>3</TD><TD></TD><TD>Japan (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/japan/japan_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>5,290,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>4</TD><TD></TD><TD>China (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/china/china_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>4,975,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>5</TD><TD></TD><TD>Germany (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/germany/germany_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,813,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>6</TD><TD></TD><TD>Russia (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/russia/russia_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,595,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>7</TD><TD></TD><TD>Brazil (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/brazil/brazil_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,199,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>8</TD><TD></TD><TD>Korea, South (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/korea_south/korea_south_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,140,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>9</TD><TD></TD><TD>India (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/india/india_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,130,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>10</TD><TD></TD><TD>France (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/france/france_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2,026,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>11</TD><TD></TD><TD>Italy (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/italy/italy_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,866,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>12</TD><TD></TD><TD>United Kingdom (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/united_kingdom/united_kingdom_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,710,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>13</TD><TD></TD><TD>Canada (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/canada/canada_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,703,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>14</TD><TD></TD><TD>Mexico (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/mexico/mexico_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,507,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>15</TD><TD></TD><TD>Spain (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/spain/spain_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,497,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>16</TD><TD></TD><TD>Saudi Arabia (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/saudi_arabia/saudi_arabia_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,452,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>17</TD><TD></TD><TD>Iran (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/iran/iran_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,277,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>18</TD><TD></TD><TD>Indonesia (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/indonesia/indonesia_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1,045,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>19</TD><TD></TD><TD>Taiwan (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/taiwan/taiwan_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>988,000 </TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>20</TD><TD></TD><TD>Netherlands (http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/netherlands/netherlands_geography.html)</TD><TD noWrap align=right>895,300</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That's only the top 20. Full rankings can be found at
http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/rankings/oil_consumption_0.html

The US use roughly 25% of world consumption. That is quite a lot just for one single country, however great it is.

Can we get our states listed like the EU does in the chart? ;)

[Rizon]

I paid $2.759 for gas the last time. I can't remember the last time I ever paid under $2.00. Probably been about 7-8 years.

[Arles]

And remember, many states like California rely on that gas tax for revenue. So, even if everyone went to mini-IPOD cars getting 50 miles to the gallon, they would put into play their "tax-per-mile" idea to make up for the lost gas revenue. So going hybrid might not save you that much in the grand scheme of things if a lot of people do it.

I still think the best way is to cool it on the different "blends" required for each area. Most cities have numerous blends specifically made to help control their pollution level. Over the US, that accounts for about 50-60 total blends that can only be in certain geographical areas. When Phoenix has the gas shortage last year because of a bad pipeline, it took us an extra week to get gas because we couldn't share California's because of the different "blend" they were using. If we cut the number of blends from in the 60s to around 5-10, it would make distribution and production of gas significantly cheaper in the US.

[Arles]

Can someone find the chart that shows gasoline prices adjusted for inflation in the past 30-40 years?
Here you are:

http://www.chartoftheday.com/20030827.gif

[Dutch]

Hey this is kind of fun!

The 50 US States equal 19,650,000
The 25 EU States equal 22,516,550 (same site, used Excel)

The Euro's beat us! What the hell! I thought we were doubling them, until now. Wow.

And like Arles said, you don't even have to drive very far to get anywhere in Europe. Nobody in France wants to go to England and nobody in England wants to go to Norway and nobody in Norway wants to go to Slovak. The Euro disinformation campaign to get people to hate the US is pathetic.

Anyway...

The Top 10 that we are striving to be like? So the EU will stop bashing us as the evil empire?

1. Niue - 20 bbl/day
2. Kiribati - 190 bbl/day
3. Saint Helena - 200 bbl/day
4. Falkland Islands - 200 bbl/day (I think the EU owns this?)
5. Montserrat - 400 bbl/day
6. British Virgin Islands - 420 bbl/day (Should this fall under the EU "cloud"?)
7. Cook Islands - 450 bbl/day
8. Saint Pierre and Miquelon - 600 bbl/day
9. Vanuatu - 600 bbl/day (thanks mostly to the Survivor crowd, no doubt)
10. Dominica - 700 bbl/day (slow down Dominica...slow down.)

[JeeberD]

I remember gas being less than a buck in 2002. However, I don't remember gas being quite that low around the time you said it was. I remember being less than .80 when I was in highschool.

I remember seeing gas for .78 somewhere in the Texas panhandle back in 1999. Gas (at the cheapest) is up to 2.12 here in my part of the Metroplex...

[fantastic flying froggies]

Hey this is kind of fun!

The 50 US States equal 19,650,000
The 25 EU States equal 22,516,550 (same site, used Excel)

The Euro's beat us! What the hell! I thought we were doubling them, until now. Wow.

...The Euro disinformation campaign to get people to hate the US is pathetic.
Wow! I did not mean by any way to start a US vs Euro war with my original post. Why are you always so defensive, Dutch?

[clintl]

The Garden State is one of two states where it's illegal to fill 'er up yourself. Only gas station owners or employees can pump gas in New Jersey and Oregon -- "the only two states atavistic, sadistic, and masochistic enough to still require thousands of 'professionals' to waste time, money, and inconvenience customers," according to one columnist.

I don't know about New Jersey, but the gas attendants in Oregon have always been pretty efficient whenever I have visited there. It's a silly law, but the inconvenience is fairly trivial, and the gas prices don't seem to be affected much.

[Dutch]

Wow! I did not mean by any way to start a US vs Euro war with my original post. Why are you always so defensive, Dutch?

To defend to is to be attacked, no? ;)

[sabotai]

I don't know about New Jersey, but the gas attendants in Oregon have always been pretty efficient whenever I have visited there. It's a silly law, but the inconvenience is fairly trivial, and the gas prices don't seem to be affected much.

I live in NJ and I find it very convenient. When it's raining, snowing, cold, hot, or when I just don't feel like getting out of my car...it's convenient. Maybe it's because I use a locally owned gas station instead of a big "chain". It's just 4 pumps and 1 guy and usually empty most of the time. I pull up and s/he's right there.

Besides, I like it to stay this way depsite my libertarianism for a reason. They were talking about lifting it in order to do one thing. Raise gas taxes. Once they lift the ban, they'll jack up the gas taxes. Rather the extra money go to the company and employees than the government.

[sabotai]

And Dutch, according to the CIA Worldbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html)

EU Population: 456,285,839
US Population: 295,734,134

That, according to your numbers, turns out to be

EU: 0.049 bbl/day per person
US: 0.066 bbl/day per person

Yeah, they use 15% more than we do, but their population is 54% more than us as well. Of course they're going to use more than us overall. If we had the same population that they do, and the bbl/day per person remained the same, we would be using 30,114,865 bbl/day.

EDIT: Just messing around with some numbers...

India has us all beat. Just under 0.002 bbl/day per person. You'd think with all the money and jobs were outsource there, they'd buy a couple of cars....

And despite it looking odd, Japan still beats both the US and EU as they use just under 0.042 bbl/day per person.

[sterlingice]

I remember seeing gas for .78 somewhere in the Texas panhandle back in 1999. Gas (at the cheapest) is up to 2.12 here in my part of the Metroplex...
Yeah, but that's because each step you take strikes oil and nobody wants to live there.

SI

[Arles]

And Dutch, according to the CIA Worldbook (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html)

EU Population: 456,285,839
US Population: 295,734,134

That, according to your numbers, turns out to be

EU: 0.049 bbl/day per person
US: 0.066 bbl/day per person

Yeah, they use 15% more than we do, but their population is 54% more than us as well. Of course they're going to use more than us overall. If we had the same population that they do, and the bbl/day per person remained the same, we would be using 30,114,865 bbl/day.
But don't forget the average American has a long commute and is spread out more than the average UK or Frenchman. To me, this is like having a group of 100 people that have to drive 30 miles each way to work and another 100 that have to drive 10 miles. Then, acting surprised when the first group uses more gas.

Because of the layout of the US, there is no possible manner for US citizens to use less gas than their EU counterparts. It doesn't make sense for that to happen.

[sabotai]

Of course Arles, I know that. I was just punching a hole into Dutch's little bubble of his own disinformation.

[Dutch]

Of course Arles, I know that. I was just punching a hole into Dutch's little bubble of his own disinformation.

I'd say it's arguable how much population has to do with it. Unless you are suggesting that China and India are being extremely conservative with their oil usage on purpose. I'd argue the better/stronger economy is what motivates oil usage.

My point was that the chart was posted just to show how bad the USA appeared overall in oil usage vs the rest of the worlds individual nations even though the USA takes up nearly half of a continent (and the populated half at that, sorry Canada). When the EU uses just as much. What difference does population matter when we are talking about overall usage of oil and consequently pollution? Would it be okay to use that much oil if we had 125 million poor squatters show up on our doorsteps tommorrow?

North America uses roughly 25% and Europe uses roughly 25%. Yet, the Europeans organize millions of people to march against America in a show of discontent because of that? Tell them to march against their own damn oil usage first.

[sabotai]

I'd say it's arguable how much population has to do with it. Unless you are suggesting that China and India are being extremely conservative with their oil usage on purpose. I'd argue the better/stronger economy is what motivates oil usage.

Of course it does. China and India use far less oil because most of the popluation is made of poor farmers and nomads who have absolutely no use for oil.

EDIT: And if you are making an argument that economy has a large effect on oil usage, isn't it dishonest to lump them all together under the EU since each nation in the EU has a different economy?

My point was that the chart was posted just to show how bad the USA appeared overall in oil usage vs the rest of the worlds individual nations even though the USA takes up nearly half of a continent (and the populated half at that, sorry Canada). When the EU uses just as much. What difference does population matter when we are talking about overall usage of oil and consequently pollution? Would it be okay to use that much oil if we had 125 million poor squatters show up on our doorsteps tommorrow?

You could have said all of this in your other post, but you acted like a child. Don't expect people to read your mind and devine your intent and points. You have to actually make them. All you did was post two numbers and go "Wow, look at that!"

And I disagree that population does not matter.

North America uses roughly 25% and Europe uses roughly 25%. Yet, the Europeans organize millions of people to march against America in a show of discontent because of that? Tell them to march against their own damn oil usage first.

I'm sure those greens do enough protesting against their own nations. You know those people are never happy. But we never hear about it because it's not news to us.

[Ryan S]

Yet, the Europeans organize millions of people to march against America in a show of discontent because of that? Tell them to march against their own damn oil usage first.
FWIW, I can't remember any anti US oil usage protests in the UK. That is not to say it has not happened, but if it has, it was by one of those anti everything groups who protest so much nobody bothers to report on it anymore.

I don't know what the rest of the EU are doing, mainly because I don't care.

[Dutch]

All you did was post two numbers and go "Wow, look at that!"

FFF did absolutely no better in making his case. But I knew, that if either of us were to be scolded, it would be me. Because how dare I point out that the Europeans drive cars too.

EDIT: And if you are making an argument that economy has a large effect on oil usage, isn't it dishonest to lump them all together under the EU since each nation in the EU has a different economy?

Not dishonest, just half-truths. My point. Now, if you want to break out oil consumption by red and blue states, that might be interesting to see. Maybe 50/50, maybe not, I'm not sure.

[sabotai]

FFF did absolutely no better in making his case. But I knew, that if either of us were to be scolded, it would be me. Because how dare I point out that the Europeans drive cars too.

I skipped right over the chart when i saw it because I know total numbers like that mean shit. I didn't even bother to pause and see who posted it (but as I scroll up, I see Arles did a good job at replying it). But you're the one who brought the EU vs. US comparison and just posted two big numbers. I was bored so I replied. :)

Not dishonest, just half-truths. My point. Now, if you want to break out oil consumption by red and blue states, that might be interesting to see. Maybe 50/50, maybe not, I'm not sure.

Your point is that you can use half-truths but others can't?

And that would be interesting. But also with a break down of how the oil is actually used too.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

April 9, 2005. Saw gas for about $ 2.75 here in Vegas,. I wouldnt be surprised if it were $ 3.25 by june.

[Dutch]

Your point is that you can use half-truths but others can't?

And that would be interesting. But also with a break down of how the oil is actually used too.

Nah, my point is that if half-truth's are used AGAINST the United States, they are generally accepted as the whole story. While half-truth's used in favor of the United States (or against the European Union in this case) would be protested immediately.

I admit I did intentionally used a generic 2 line "fact" with no further detail on purpose. It was to generate a similar rise that I felt when I saw the Top 10 l

While I was defensive about the misleading stat-line FFF posted, it would have been overlooked because it's "fact" without me jumping up and down and acting like a "child" screaming foul. Plus, it was more fun than just pointing it out in bland black and white. :)

[Rizon]

$2.899 today

[ISiddiqui]

Still under $2 a gallon here in South Jersey

The reason our gas is so cheap is because our gas tax is so low. I think it's the lowest in the nation because we have a lot of highways that use toll booths. Plus, all the traffic from out of state that uses the NJ Turnpike (when I was in high school, they said it was the most heavily traveled road in the world. After trying to drive on it during rush hour one weekday night, I beleived them) adds in a lot ot the tolls collected.

And I have never tipped for gas. I never even heard of tipping for gas.
I don't think it is because of the tolls. Other states have tolls (fucking Maryland and Delaware) on major highways and still have higher gas. The reason is because a LOT of gas refining in the country is based in NJ. Most of that is due to the fact that Standard Oil was based in NJ in the early 1900s. That's a BIIIIG lobby right there and that keeps the gas taxes low.

Yeah, and I never tipped when I lived in Jersey. I think the attendant would be confused if you tried to tip him.

Though since coming to Georgia, I perfer pumping my own gas. Then again, we don't have as bad weather down here as we did during Jersey winters (imagine pumping your own gas during the Blizzard of '96!).

[ISiddiqui]

But don't forget the average American has a long commute and is spread out more than the average UK or Frenchman. To me, this is like having a group of 100 people that have to drive 30 miles each way to work and another 100 that have to drive 10 miles. Then, acting surprised when the first group uses more gas.

Because of the layout of the US, there is no possible manner for US citizens to use less gas than their EU counterparts. It doesn't make sense for that to happen.
The Euros do complain about our urban sprawl and crap mass transportation systems, however. A lot of those complaints are well founded, especially the mass transport stuff. Atlanta's mass transportation system is a joke, for one.

[Cringer]

It seems to have gone down here a bit. $1.99 is the cheapest arounf here.

[sooner333]

I bought premium for 2.11 on Thursday (regular was 1.98)...it was on and Indian Reservation, so I'm not sure if that takes down the price any for taxes.

[Neuqua]

Just filled it up at $2.24

[Glengoyne]

Well That station that hit me up for 2.75 is still asking that much, but I've been going to a place up the road and paying 2.65.

As for the people that say we're lucky we aren't back in the 80s paying a buck fifty a gallon. I call BS and say that a year ago a lot of people were paying 1.75/gal. The reason it is a bitch is that just a few years ago gas was nearly a third cheaper. Mean income may have risen quite a bit since the early eighties, but it hasn't gone up 33% in two years, while gas prices have.

[Ksyrup]

Ours went down 4 cents to $2.29 over the weekend, but I've still seen plenty of places around town between $2.31 and $2.35.

Incidentally, as a follow-up to my comment about QS' post, comparing the cost of gas in 1978 and 2005, I saw a chart that listed the national average gas prices over the past 20 years or so, and it was as I suspected - the reason we're (as a country) really complaining about the price of gas isn't necessarily the relative cost from 1978 versus today, but how fast it has shot up.

On the chart I saw, the average price of gas on January 1, 2002, was $1.10. As of March 1, 2005, it was $2.25, I believe. So, in 3 years, gas prices have more than doubled. I can almost guarantee that had gas prices risen steadily from 1978 until now, hardly anyone would be complaining about the price of gas. But we're talking over a 100% increase in 3 years. That's noticeable, whether or not, in real dollars, it's no less than we (some of us, anyway) were paying 25+ years ago.

[Balldog]

We are down to $1.96-1.99 from $2.25-2.34 a little over a week ago.

A $0.30 difference when filling up a 24 gallon tank is $7.20

[Cringer]

I find this odd that is seems over the last week places seem to have stayed the same or gone down a decent amount. Yet I talked to my Mom in Spokane,WA last night and she said it shot up a good 10-15 cents over the last week to $2.45....

[JeeberD]

Spent over $200 on gas driving a U-Haul from Colorado to Texas this weekend. Not fun at all...

Looks like prices are dropping a bit here. When I left on Thursday morning the lowest in the area was $2.12, but now the Walmart across the street has it for $2.06.

Up by DIA it was around $2.35...ick!

[Buccaneer]

Ours went down 4 cents to $2.29 over the weekend, but I've still seen plenty of places around town between $2.31 and $2.35.

Incidentally, as a follow-up to my comment about QS' post, comparing the cost of gas in 1978 and 2005, I saw a chart that listed the national average gas prices over the past 20 years or so, and it was as I suspected - the reason we're (as a country) really complaining about the price of gas isn't necessarily the relative cost from 1978 versus today, but how fast it has shot up.

On the chart I saw, the average price of gas on January 1, 2002, was $1.10. As of March 1, 2005, it was $2.25, I believe. So, in 3 years, gas prices have more than doubled. I can almost guarantee that had gas prices risen steadily from 1978 until now, hardly anyone would be complaining about the price of gas. But we're talking over a 100% increase in 3 years. That's noticeable, whether or not, in real dollars, it's no less than we (some of us, anyway) were paying 25+ years ago.
Don't forget to talk about the decreases as well.

[QuikSand]

From another thread here at FOFC, totally unrelated:

The only other place remotely close is [snipped] about 30 miles away, and that isn't an option with gas as high as it is now.

So, from what I'm reading here, the argument is basically:

Sure, I'd drive 30 miles and back to do this thing, no problem. But 60 miles of driving costs me 3 gallons of gas, and with today's gas prices, that's an extar 90 cents on top of what it would have cost me a while ago. So, no way, not for 90 cents more.

It's this kind of overraction to gas prices that baffles me. An acquaintance has basically cancelled their family mini-vacation, on account of gas prices being so high. They were going to drive for maybe 500 miles total. At 25 gallons of gas, and even a generous "price premium" of 50 cents per gallon, we're talking about... $12.50. Fine... stay at home, then, if $12.50 is the difference between taking a vacation and not. Of course, if they showed up at the Best Western and the room was $5.00 extra for three nights, there would be no debate about that, and no one in his right mind would argue to cancel the trip over it. But gas prices -- well, you can't be too careful.

*shurg*

[Arles]

So, from what I'm reading here, the argument is basically:

Sure, I'd drive 30 miles and back to do this thing, no problem. But 60 miles of driving costs me 3 gallons of gas, and with today's gas prices, that's an extar 90 cents on top of what it would have cost me a while ago. So, no way, not for 90 cents more.

It's this kind of overraction to gas prices that baffles me. An acquaintance has basically cancelled their family mini-vacation, on account of gas prices being so high. They were going to drive for maybe 500 miles total. At 25 gallons of gas, and even a generous "price premium" of 50 cents per gallon, we're talking about... $12.50. Fine... stay at home, then, if $12.50 is the difference between taking a vacation and not. Of course, if they showed up at the Best Western and the room was $5.00 extra for three nights, there would be no debate about that, and no one in his right mind would argue to cancel the trip over it. But gas prices -- well, you can't be too careful.

*shurg*
I have to agree. Numerous goods and services fluctuate in price all the time. Your example of hotels is a good one. I went to Vegas a few years back and stayed in the Luxor for about $85 a night during an early March weekend. This year (also an early weekend in March), the best deal we found was $160 a night at the Monte Carlo. That was almost a 100% increase, yet I still went on vacation. Now, I can see some truckers and long distance salesmen getting a little aggitated as they would be impacted more by these increases. But people on your normal 40 mile a day commutes (an extra $4 a week) or vacations getting up in arms about this is a little overkill.

Another quite humerous side issue on all this is many of the people up in arms about the price of gas were the same ones that "poo-pooed" the tax cut to the middle class. If you use this $.50 premium per gallon over the past year or two, you end up with it costing most families around $300 more over the course of a calender year. Most of these same families received anywhere from $500 to $1500 in a federal tax break from the tax cut. Yet, the $300 expense for an increase in gas cost is simply too much to bear, while the $500 to $1000 saved in the tax cut is insignificant and doesn't amount to much. ;)

[Ksyrup]

I don't disagree about the relative cost to Joe Consumer based on incremental increases. But again, in the big picture, we're talking about a much greater expense from just a couple of years ago, which surely adds up. And of course, those who travel for a living end up spending quite a bit more in gas than the rest of us, which affects their ability to conduct business.

But overall, yes, I understand your point about people deciding to forego certain activities based on gas price, when in fact, it really doesn't add up to all that much. I've noticed that the price of a loaf of bread has gone up quite a bit over the past several years, and no one is moaning about giving up PB & J sandwiches.

[wbatl1]

Around here gas is running at about $2.25.9 per gallon. Do gas stations really need to add to .9 cents anymore?

Also, why do gas stations insist on charging 10 cents more for midgrade and 20 cents for premium? Shouldn't it be based on percentages? If midgrade cost 10% more and premium 20%, then at regular at $1 they would be 1.10 and 1.20. At $2 they would be 2.20 and 2.40.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

Actually, I was in Macon this weekend, and the regular was 2.17, the mid was 2.27 and the high level was 2.47. I don't know why, and I always get regular so I can't tell you any more, but maybe some stations are doing a little bit of percentages.

[Marmel]

Gas prices are not much of a concern to me, even though I commute 30 minutes each way. What bothers me is more the principle.

If oil prices go down, we are told by the time the oil is purchased, refined and shipped to my pump, it takes 3 months, so we won't release the price decrease at the pumps until then.

If oil prices go up, you know the guy is out at the pumps that afternoon raising the prices. No 3 month waiting period there.

Its little things like that which irk me, though its not going to change my buying habits in the least......which is why they can and do, do it. :(

[-Mojo Jojo-]

It's this kind of overraction to gas prices that baffles me. An acquaintance has basically cancelled their family mini-vacation, on account of gas prices being so high. They were going to drive for maybe 500 miles total. At 25 gallons of gas, and even a generous "price premium" of 50 cents per gallon, we're talking about... $12.50. Fine... stay at home, then, if $12.50 is the difference between taking a vacation and not. Of course, if they showed up at the Best Western and the room was $5.00 extra for three nights, there would be no debate about that, and no one in his right mind would argue to cancel the trip over it. But gas prices -- well, you can't be too careful.

*shurg*

Clearly the decision makes no sense in those terms, and if that's the rationale your friend gave you then it was probably a poor decision. However, the $12.50 is not the only concern when gas prices increase. The family's regular (non-travel) fuel costs will also increase, and the fuel costs may impact prices on goods they purchase as well, and if sustained could have a negative impact on the economy as a whole. In that context tightening the belt a bit may not be a bad idea...

[QuikSand]

Clearly the decision makes no sense in those terms, and if that's the rationale your friend gave you then it was probably a poor decision. However, the $12.50 is not the only concern when gas prices increase. The family's regular (non-travel) fuel costs will also increase, and the fuel costs may impact prices on goods they purchase as well, and if sustained could have a negative impact on the economy as a whole. In that context tightening the belt a bit may not be a bad idea...

I don't disagree... but you and I both know that when people see the price of gasoline go up, they react to the price of gasoline. They don't react to the anticipated increase in the price of lettuce and kleenex.

[hukarez]

$2.79 for 91 here. Some places are $2.93 I've noticed. Erg! http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/%7Efof/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

[Sharpieman]

*Laughs at SUV owners* (except those on this board of course. I feel sorry for yous guys).

[Sharpieman]

Oh and by the way, I hope everyone knows that gas prices aren't going to go down in the long-term. I predict that people in the US will start to think about not buying SUV's when prices get up to $6.00. No extra drilling is going to result in a massive price reduction, we must start working towards making more fuel efficient cars and work towards introducing more low-priced alternative energy powered cars.

[QuikSand]

I predict that people in the US will start to think about not buying SUV's when prices get up to $6.00.

Actually, I think this presents an interesting twist.

People like me complain that others overreact to increases in gas prices, at least in their statements and in isolated actions.

If gas prices do indeed stay high and even go higher over a long period of time, then we should expect there to be some basic change in attitude among people -- folks who really don't need large, gas-guzzling vehicles to start to make different choices, and prefer more fuel-efficient cars.

The market for hybrid vehicles has been lively, but remains pretty confined to a subset of the public. Maybe something like that can really catch on in the next political generation or so? It would be consistent with my theory that people are somehow magnetically predisposed to overreact to gas prices.

[st.cronin]

Actually, I think this presents an interesting twist.

People like me complain that others overreact to increases in gas prices, at least in their statements and in isolated actions.

If gas prices do indeed stay high and even go higher over a long period of time, then we should expect there to be some basic change in attitude among people -- folks who really don't need large, gas-guzzling vehicles to start to make different choices, and prefer more fuel-efficient cars.

The market for hybrid vehicles has been lively, but remains pretty confined to a subset of the public. Maybe something like that can really catch on in the next political generation or so? It would be consistent with my theory that people are somehow magnetically predisposed to overreact to gas prices.

Sales of SUVs and 'light' trucks have been flat for several years now; people are already moving towards more fuel-efficient vehicles. One of the most popular SUVs today is the Saturn Vue which gets mileage comparable to a midsize sedan.

The hybrid vehicles haven't yet crossed that line where it is in the strict economic self-interest of the consumer to buy one; as the prices come down, it will cross that point, and sales will skyrocket.

[Balldog]

Sales of SUVs and 'light' trucks have been flat for several years now; people are already moving towards more fuel-efficient vehicles. One of the most popular SUVs today is the Saturn Vue which gets mileage comparable to a midsize sedan.

The hybrid vehicles haven't yet crossed that line where it is in the strict economic self-interest of the consumer to buy one; as the prices come down, it will cross that point, and sales will skyrocket.

Yep and we make parts for SUVs and 'light' trucks. :(

[flere-imsaho]

The market for hybrid vehicles has been lively, but remains pretty confined to a subset of the public. Maybe something like that can really catch on in the next political generation or so? It would be consistent with my theory that people are somehow magnetically predisposed to overreact to gas prices.

I slightly disagree here. Maybe if hybrids were only going to be things like the Honda Insight or the Toyota Prius, I'd agree, but now that the industry has been putting these engines in "normal" vehicles, like the Civic/Accord, the Escape and the Lexus RXwhatever, I think we'll see more "normal" Americans get these vehicles.

Again, it's psychology.

"People think gas prices are very high and won't come down" + "People think hybrid engines will save them money, even if they cost more up front" + "Carmakers offer hybrid engines in vehicles that appear and act normal in all other facets" = greater demand for hybrids.

My prediction is that within 5 years the vast majority of car models sold in America will have a hybrid engine option. As in, you can currently buy a Honda Accord with a normal engine (two choices, actually), or a hybrid engine. Extend this to virtually all models sold in America.

In 10 years the majority of vehicles on the road (just over 50% in 10 years) will have hybrid engines. Now, will they all get over 50mpg? Probably not, but they'll all probably get between 30 and 50 mpg.

[st.cronin]

I don't know about your timeframe flere - but for the most part you're correct. When I was working in the auto industry last year, I sat down one day to figure out the cost/benefit of a hybrid engine. At the time, it was clearly NOT a fiscally wise purchase. But it will be someday.

[flere-imsaho]

I don't know about your timeframe flere - but for the most part you're correct.

Well, it's just speculation, really.

When I was working in the auto industry last year, I sat down one day to figure out the cost/benefit of a hybrid engine. At the time, it was clearly NOT a fiscally wise purchase. But it will be someday.

I agree. However, part of my prediction is my belief that a significant number of purchasers will "believe" that a hybrid will save them money, even if it technically won't. Of course, a huge part of the cost/benefit ratio is one's personal thoughts on how high gas will go. Someone who thinks gas will be at $6/gallon in two years may view it differently than someone who thinks we'll just be at $3/gallon in two years.

That's the psychology part.

[Crapshoot]

So are you saying people are ignorant, and not just generally upset about the rising gas/oil prices?

Missed this. I'm saying people aren't aware that oil prices have built in fear premiums, and that they don't understand that oil (and oil production) isn't limitless - OPEC is pretty close to capacity right now.

[Crapshoot]

I think you give most people too little credit inregards to their understanding of supply-and-demand economics.

I think you don't understand that there is more than a simplistic supply and demand curve here - that there are externalities in play.

[duckman]

I think you don't understand that there is more than a simplistic supply and demand curve here - that there are externalities in play.
I understand it fairly well. You would probably be suprised by how many people I come to know that understand it as well.

[Arles]

Oh and by the way, I hope everyone knows that gas prices aren't going to go down in the long-term. I predict that people in the US will start to think about not buying SUV's when prices get up to $6.00. No extra drilling is going to result in a massive price reduction, we must start working towards making more fuel efficient cars and work towards introducing more low-priced alternative energy powered cars.
If gas goes to a point that makes traditional SUVs too expensive to drive to some people, the market will simply adjust and provide hybrid SUVs. In the end, the people's desire to drive SUVs will drive the market to provide a cost-effective solution for those not wanting to pay for a gas-guzzler. But, it's not like if gas reaches $6, the American will suddenly not want to drive or ride in SUVs.

[Crapshoot]

If gas goes to a point that makes traditional SUVs too expensive to drive to some people, the market will simply adjust and provide hybrid SUVs. In the end, the people's desire to drive SUVs will drive the market to provide a cost-effective solution for those not wanting to pay for a gas-guzzler. But, it's not like if gas reaches $6, the American will suddenly not want to drive or ride in SUVs.

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, the SUV/Pickup's machismo appeal is not likely to change, and some indistrious manufacturer will figure out a hybrid engine with the power that people want (and don't need- but that's neither here nor there) and capture a fair amount of the market. That being said, we seem to be fairly far away from a powerful hybrid that could fit that market niche - it seems to me that development along these lines will increase when oil prices tend further upward - but little seems to be done for power (As opposed to efficiency) right now.