Poker "How did I play this Hand" Question

[albionmoonlight]

Here's an easy one from a guy who just manages to tread water at low-limit online tables.

I was at a one table tournament last night at Party. We had had 6-7 hands, and not much action. Everyone still has around 800 chips, and blinds are still 10/15.

I get KhQh on the button. There are 5-6 callers, and I call (first ?. Should I have raised here? I know that suited connectors tend to be hands where you don't want to make a large investment to see the flop, especially from late position. Still, that's a hand that I see a lot of people raise pre-flop with.)

Flop comes K-J-6, rainbow.

A couple of checks. An 85 chip bet from middle position. I call, and one of the checkers calls. (second Q. Should I have raised here? I figure the risk that he has A-K or K-J makes a call more prudent. Is that right?)

Turn comes Q.

First bettor (the guy who check-called) bets 100. Called by guy #2. I push all-in. They both call. Bettor has 9-10 and, the river being of no consequence, wins with a straight.

Third question. How should I have played that turn? I was working on the read that they had A-K, A-Q, A-J, or A-x. I figured that I had them beat and wanted to make them pay to get the 10 (and get their straight) or get their A (and beat my 2 pair with their two pair).

However, some other thoughts went through my head before I pushed all-in. First, it's always risky to go all-in at the beginning of a tournament, even if you think that you have best hand (of course, doubling or tripling early in a one table tournament means a lot more than at a small tournament.) Second, I thought that someone might have A-10 and already have the straight. Then my all-in with 2 pair would be playing into their hands. Turns out, they did (only with 9-10).

So here's my question. I wanted to bet enough to keep them from drawing out on me, but really exposed myself when I misread them.

How do I play that?

TIA.

[Ragone]

that guy stayed in far too long with a inside straight draw.. but your betting allowed him to stay in.. you probably could have pushed him out with a strong bet.

That q was the worst possible thing that could have came in that posistion.. opening up all kinds of straight possibliities :)

[QuikSand]

With all these limpers, I think you are giving them too much credit for their hands. AK, AQ, and even AJ are generally raising hands, even among low-level players. Since you were able to just limp in after all these players did (pre flop) I think you ought to instead to considering lesser hands as your more likely opposition by the turn. T9 is certainly a possibility, but also hands like QT, KT, Kx, Jx, K6, J6, and the like.

I think I like a raise preflop -- your hand plays fine against one or two players, but also multi-way, since it's suited. If the big blind is 15, I think a raise to 60 or so woudl be useful - to hopefully weed out the saddest hands and refine your opposition. Your hand doesn't have huge power, but with the preflop raise you buy the lead seat for the after-flop action, and probably get the speculators' attention.

Given the action to that point, I think the push on the turn might have been too much -- the most likely hands to call your all-in there are ones who have you beat, and you have at most four cards in the deck to boat you up past a made straight or set. You're right that a person with a one-card draw to the straight would probably fold there... but I think you're okay taking the chance that their card will not hit at the end.

So... I think my line woudl be more like:

Preflop raise to 60, probably getting 2-3 callers.

Probably gets checked to you on the flop, you bet out about 100-150 into a pot of ~200 chips. You might get one caller for this, possibly the guy with T9 (though the chance is lessened by the larger bet by a later player with pre-flop power), but he will not have pot odds to make that call here (he may anyway).

On the turn, another bet, maybe 200 or so. If he checkraises you all in here, you have a tough fold facing you... AT or T9 have you beaten badly after his lucky card hit the turn. Even a set (he may have been ahead th whole way) leaves you with few outs.

To be candid, against low level players, playing this exact hand -- I'd probably be busted out as well. I think I'd have bet it more aggressively, but there's at least a solid chance that T9 stays in there to catch his queen, and then traps me on the turn. He'd probbaly be the on making the big move, but I probably would call it and be shown the door like you were.


Don't know if that's helpful, but there's another view.

[GoldenEagle]

I think your not clear on one thing. The button is the most powerful position at the table. By letting him limp in pre flop you allowed his drawing hand to see the flop for cheap. I raise from the button with any two over cards and any marginal pocket pair. When I have the button, this is my hand.

Two of his outs hit. You let him stay in the hand for cheap giving him the proper pot odds to call. He had them even for an inside straight. When you have a top pair plus a good kicker you have the best hand at that time. No one showed any real strength before the flop which should give some insurance. Bet aggressive and I think you take this hand.

I only play in a small percentage of hands. However, if I get some cards I play them very aggressively. If I go out, I am going out knowing I had the best hand at the time I pushed all my chips in.

[dixieflatline]

I get KhQh on the button. There are 5-6 callers, and I call (first ?. Should I have raised here? I know that suited connectors tend to be hands where you don't want to make a large investment to see the flop, especially from late position. Still, that's a hand that I see a lot of people raise pre-flop with.)

You probably have the best hand here so it would seem like a raise is in order but I think calling here is better. First the problem is how much to raise. A standard raise is 3-4 times the big blind which would be 45-60 but here the pot already is at 100-115 and even a raise of 60 puts the pot at 160-175. With the blinds that leaves 7-8 players who are getting 3.5 to 1 to call. Once the first of them calls the next player will be getting almost 5 to 1. This raise isn't going to thin the field. You will still be faced with at least 4 players to the flop. Even worse the pot will be bloated meaning when your opponents call your flop bet with crazy draws they are playing less incorrectly because of the size of the pot. If you really want to thin the field you are going to have to put in a big raise here. Something probably bigger than the pot.(if you had JJ here then this is the right play) The problem is a raise like that is for a large ammount of your chips and while KQs is a nice hand it isn't a hand I would like to get that many chips in with. Also, someone in early position could have limped in with AA or KK and is waiting for a limp reraise. This won't happen often but when it does now what do you do? You are going to have to throw your KQs away and have lost a decent ammount of your chips in the process. You clearly are going to play the hand though so I think calling is the right thing to do.

A couple of checks. An 85 chip bet from middle position. I call, and one of the checkers calls. (second Q. Should I have raised here? I figure the risk that he has A-K or K-J makes a call more prudent. Is that right?)

You absolutely have to put in a big raise here. Let's try to guess what the middle position bettor has. He could have a king. If he does have a king he probably has a worse kicker than you as he probably should have raised with AK. He could have two pair with KJ or even K6. If suited a lot of people limp with hands like this. He could have a pocket pair and has a set. But if he did he probably would be slowplaying it on a rainbow board. He also could have just a J and is drawing thin. He could have a draw like QT and is betting it but that just doesn't seem too likely to me. He may even be on a bluff. You almost certainly have the best hand right now and the pot has about 200 chips in it. I think I would make about a pot sized bet. 200 chips is nice so instead of trying to win more chips try to win the pot right now. If someone comes over the top of you you will be put in a difficult decision. If it was the middle position bettor I would probably call but if it was someone who checked raised I would probably fold.

After the Q hits on the turn you are losing all your chips no matter what you do.

[Subby]

This early in the tournament, I actually like the line that has you calling and then raising big on the flop if you hit top pair or slowplaying if you flop a monster...

[Gary Gorski]

I think that with being on the button you want to raise pre-flop with KQs - you'll drive out some of the weaker hands (although this is Party so the fish will still call regardless since they already put chips into the hand) plus on the flop you'll be last to act so more than likely everyone will check to you unless someone hit something pretty solid on the flop. If everyone does check you could put a decent size bet on the flop with top pair and not giving the 9-10 guy pot odds to call on his inside straight draw.