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View Full Version : OT: Agent Orange is VERY VERY BAD


Subby
04-28-2005, 08:29 AM
<img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/img.news.yahoo.com/util/anysize/380,http%3A%2F%2Fus.news2.yimg.com%2Fus.yimg.com%2Fp%2Fap%2F20050425%2Fcapt.rjv10104250324.vietnam_30th_anniversary_rjv101.jpg?v=1" align="right" hspace="10" vspace="10">Xuan Minh, 3, looks out from his bed at the Tu Du Hospital in Ho Chi Min city on Friday March 25,2005, suffering from what is believed to be the effects of the jungle defoliant Agent Orange, used heavily in the region by the U.S. armed forces during the Vietnam War. Vietnam celebrates the end of hostilities on April 30, 2005, marking 30 years since war in Vietnam ended. (AP Photo/Richard Vogel)

And I'll save you the trouble of Snopesing this (http://www.snopes.com/photos/medical/orange.asp).

bigdawg2003
04-28-2005, 08:41 AM
that might be the creepiest thing i've ever seen

Samdari
04-28-2005, 09:04 AM
There is no evidence the photo has been doctored.

There is also no evidence that this is a result of Agent Orange, other than "the Vietnamese believe it is." I am pretty sure they have attributed every birth defect in the last 30 years to Agent Orange, despite there being no credible evidence that Vietnam's incidence of birth defects has been higher than other similarly developed countries in the 30 years since the US left Vietnam.

Publishing this kid's photo for the sole purpose of disseminating anti-US propaganda is a cheap stunt, and IMO, terribly exploitative of a poor little boy who has a nightmare of a life ahead.

Fritz
04-28-2005, 09:07 AM
ever had their fish sauce? That could do it to you too.

Subby
04-28-2005, 09:16 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4336941.stm

Agent Orange legal case dismissed<!-- S BO -->
<img src="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40262000/jpg/_40262853_girl203.jpg" align="right" hspace="5" vspace="5"> A US federal court in New York has dismissed a legal action brought by Vietnamese plaintiffs over the use of Agent Orange during the Vietnam War.

The plaintiffs had sought compensation from the firms that manufactured the chemical, which allegedly caused birth defects, miscarriages and cancer.

They said use of the defoliant - to strip away forest cover during the war - was a war crime against millions.

But Judge Jack Weinstein ruled there was no legal basis for their claims.

The civil action was the first attempt by Vietnamese plaintiffs to claim compensation for the effects of Agent Orange, which has been linked to a multitude of heath problems, including diabetes.

However, the chemical companies said no such link had been proved.

The defendants - including Dow Chemical and the Monsanto Corporation - also argued that the US government was responsible for how the chemical was used, not the manufacturers.

They maintained that US courts could not punish corporations for carrying out the orders of a president exercising his powers as commander-in-chief.

Birth defects

In a 233-page ruling, Judge Weinstein threw out the case, saying: "There is no basis for any of the claims of plaintiffs under the domestic law of any nation or state or under any form of international law."

The US justice department had urged the federal judge to dismiss the lawsuit.

In a brief filed in January, it said opening the courts to cases brought by former enemies would be a dangerous threat to presidential powers to wage war.

Between 1962 and 1971, large quantities of Agent Orange were sprayed across parts of Vietnam to deprive communist North Vietnamese forces of forest cover.

In 1984, several chemical companies paid $180m (£93m) to settle a lawsuit with US war veterans, who said that their health had been affected by exposure to the substance.

Agent Orange was named after the colour of its container. As well as herbicides which stripped trees bare, it contained a strain of dioxin.

In time, some contend, the dioxin spread to the food chain causing a proliferation of birth defects.

Some babies were born without eyes or arms, or were missing internal organs.

A group representing alleged Vietnamese victims says three million people were exposed to the chemical during the war, and at least one million suffer serious health problems today.<!-- E BO -->

cody8200
04-28-2005, 09:27 AM
Isaw this the other day. Its quite sad. I dont care if it was caused by Agent Orange or not; that kid should not be exploited. I'm wondering, is this kind mentally disabled? I would imagine he would have to be... I don't know. Its just sad.

Samdari
04-28-2005, 09:37 AM
In time, some contend, the dioxin spread to the food chain causing a proliferation of birth defects.

Some contend it, so obviously, it is completely true.

Some babies were born without eyes or arms, or were missing internal organs.

Something that could also be said about the US during the same time period, and every place during every period of time - every population has children born with all manner of birth defects. If you really feel such sympathy for children born with birth defects, I suggest you make annual donations to the March of Dimes - I do.

I am in no way defending the use of Agent Orange by US forces in Vietnam, nor claiming it did not have adverse health affects to those exposed to high levels of it. I am instead attcking the exploitation of a child with awful defects who probably has a short life expectancy, and an even lower expectation for quality of that life. But, it is extremely unlikely that a child who appears to be 4 or 5 years old in 2004 had his birth defects caused by a chemical that was used 30 years ago.

Subby
04-28-2005, 10:07 AM
I ran across that pic a few weeks ago and was so sure it had been photoshopped that I didn't really pay much attention to it. It popped up on MyYahoo again this week, so I got around to Snopesing it this morning and was suprised to see that it is, in fact, a legitimate photo. I also discovered that there a many, many pictures of Vietnamese children who have birth defects supposedly related to Agent Orange.

Maybe its just my deep-seated mistrust of both chemical companies in general and our government from that time period - or maybe my empathy for those kids - but I don't think that the possibility of their defects being caused by Agent Orange is as preposterous as you make it sound.

MacroGuru
04-28-2005, 10:17 AM
My father in law served in Vietnam to a heavily laced area with Agent Orange....almost all of my bro and sis in-laws have suffered some sort of bodily defect or illness, and the U.S. Government is accepting the blame on it due to agent orange right now.

Bro In-Law - Gastro Intestinal Issues
Sis In-Law - MS
Wife - Gastro Intestinal Issues - Potential MS as well.......We go back for a 5 year spinal tap and full blown testing next year.
Sis in Law - Fine so far
Bro In Law (23 yrs old) - Rheumatoid Arthritis

Now, initially, the brother in law and sister in laws illnesses were an oh well, the minute my wife started testing, the VA started taking a look at it including blood tests and such, then the diagnosis on the youngest made them raise their hands and say, we believe it is our fault.

Now I don't know if this was to keep what could be a very nasty lawsuit out of court, but they are helping the family out in a big way.

Sharpieman
04-28-2005, 10:50 AM
AO is pretty f'ing horrible.

Radii
04-28-2005, 10:55 AM
My dad had a brain tumor removed a couple of years ago, I don't think there is any way to prove direct correlation to agent orange, but I do remember discussions about how the type of tumor he had was extremely rare and discussions of his time in Vietnam with the doctors.

I also know my dad has for years and years been eligible to apply for some sort of disability/relief due to Agent Orange exposure, but until recently always felt that since he could do his job fine he did not need the money and never applied.

I'm a bit shaky on the details behind all that though, as my dad *never* talked about Vietnam when I was growing up so its just not something I ever learned much about.

My sister and I seem fine so far though!

DeToxRox
04-28-2005, 11:54 AM
You know what is good though?

HI-C Orange Lavaburst.

Samdari
04-28-2005, 12:02 PM
I don't think that the possibility of their defects being caused by Agent Orange is as preposterous as you make it sound.

I don't think it is preposterous that they might have been caused by AO.

I think it is preposterous to assume that because he was born in Vietnam with birth defects that it is because of AO. It is also preposterous to publish this picture, and the attendant "look how awful the US govt. is for maiming this child" when no such evidence exists that AO had anything to do with it. There are far more children born in the world with birth defects not caused by AO than there are caused by AO, and I strongly suspect that more birth defects, in Vietnam, in year 2000 births, there were more defects not caused by AO than had anything to do with AO exposure by the parents 30 years ago.

Desnudo
04-28-2005, 01:49 PM
I can hardly see you, way up on that high, high horse.