OT: So I quit my job today.

[judicial clerk]

That is what I will be saying after I meet with my boss in about five minutes. I am nervous and he has no idea this is comming. I do not plan on leaving today, but I am looking to take a job that does a thorough background check and so before the can make me a job offer, they must speak with my current employer.

My hope is that my current employer will not be pissed or offended and tells me to hit the bricks.

This is going to be fun.

[Greyroofoo]

be polite and say how good of an experience it was working there

[Maple Leafs]

(Waves red stapler in air as a judicial clerk walks into bosses office.)

[WSUCougar]

Little does judicial clerk know that they already "fixed the glitch."

[judicial clerk]

I didn't even get to talk to him. He cut me off before I could say anything and asked me if I had any luck fixing the roach problem in the basement. he then said he had to get the oil changed in his Porsche. i did mutter that I could burn the whole place down. I think it went well.

Actually, He was very congenial. He understands and accepts my issues with the job. He also appreciated that I told him before anyone else in the office and that I am giving him approximately one month's notice.

Now the other job just needs to come through. Actually, the other brings up its own set of issues. As you may know, i work as an attorney in a small law firm. I don't make a lot of money and I am feeling burned out by the long hours and the pressure. I am considering leaving my profession and taking a job as a cop. I don't know if I am nuts or not. My boss actually said that he does not want me to go be a cop. He said I am wasting my skill, and that if I do not like private practice with him, I should look first to go into a government lawyer position.

[Franklinnoble]

Bah. Nothing to be nervous about.

When it comes to these sort of background checks, the only thing they can do is call your HR person and ask for verification of your employment there. All your HR people can say is whether or not you've worked there, and for how long. That's it. It is extremely unlikely (and probably illegal, without your consent) for them to speak to your manager.

[Galaxy]

I didn't even get to talk to him. He cut me off before I could say anything and asked me if I had any luck fixing the roach problem in the basement. he then said he had to get the oil changed in his Porsche. i did mutter that I could burn the whole place down. I think it went well.

Actually, He was very congenial. He understands and accepts my issues with the job. He also appreciated that I told him before anyone else in the office and that I am giving him approximately one month's notice.

Now the other job just needs to come through. Actually, the other brings up its own set of issues. As you may know, i work as an attorney in a small law firm. I don't make a lot of money and I am feeling burned out by the long hours and the pressure. I am considering leaving my profession and taking a job as a cop. I don't know if I am nuts or not. My boss actually said that he does not want me to go be a cop. He said I am wasting my skill, and that if I do not like private practice with him, I should look first to go into a government lawyer position.


mmmmm....Porsche

[Logan]

Bah. Nothing to be nervous about.

When it comes to these sort of background checks, the only thing they can do is call your HR person and ask for verification of your employment there. All your HR people can say is whether or not you've worked there, and for how long. That's it. It is extremely unlikely (and probably illegal, without your consent) for them to speak to your manager.

As long as this is actually a background check, that would apply. But if it's a "reference check" its a different story. Although a smart manager would still just confirm dates of employment/actual position instead of saying anything negative and opening them up to any legal issues should he not get the job.

[Cringer]

You don't make money as a lawyer?

Thank god I never went to college.... ;)

[Draft Dodger]

Bah. Nothing to be nervous about.

When it comes to these sort of background checks, the only thing they can do is call your HR person and ask for verification of your employment there. All your HR people can say is whether or not you've worked there, and for how long. That's it. It is extremely unlikely (and probably illegal, without your consent) for them to speak to your manager.

I don't think that's the case.
but what started to happen is people started to sue over bad references, so many companies stopped doing anything other than verifying employment. I don't believe there is anything in a legal sense to prevent them from talking to your manager (and vise versa)

[Swaggs]

Maybe you should try law somewhere else before deciding to change professions?

[mgadfly]

I don't think that's the case.
but what started to happen is people started to sue over bad references, so many companies stopped doing anything other than verifying employment. I don't believe there is anything in a legal sense to prevent them from talking to your manager (and vise versa)

Generally speaking this is the case. There are a couple of exceptions (government employer or a state with a constitutional right to privacy) but for the most part the "bad reference" liability fear is pretty stupid since previous employers are now being hit with quite a few law suits after failing to disclose information that they should have.

(A school near me gave a letter of rec to an employee in order to get him to quit. He had been accused by a few children of molestation. He went to another school with his letter from the previous school as part of the negotiated severence. He was then accused of molestation at the new school and the parents of the new school sued both schools. The second school sued the first school as well for indemnification.)

[mgadfly]

I didn't even get to talk to him. He cut me off before I could say anything and asked me if I had any luck fixing the roach problem in the basement. he then said he had to get the oil changed in his Porsche. i did mutter that I could burn the whole place down. I think it went well.

Actually, He was very congenial. He understands and accepts my issues with the job. He also appreciated that I told him before anyone else in the office and that I am giving him approximately one month's notice.

Now the other job just needs to come through. Actually, the other brings up its own set of issues. As you may know, i work as an attorney in a small law firm. I don't make a lot of money and I am feeling burned out by the long hours and the pressure. I am considering leaving my profession and taking a job as a cop. I don't know if I am nuts or not. My boss actually said that he does not want me to go be a cop. He said I am wasting my skill, and that if I do not like private practice with him, I should look first to go into a government lawyer position.


I'm not sure what type of law you practice, but I wouldn't give up just yet. Last year I remember reading a bunch of studies about job satisfaction for attorneys. The worst was associates at medium sized firms who were paid less than top dollar but still expected to bill 2000 hours each year. The best areas to look in, if you are concerned with "happiness" rather than making partner, is as in-house counsel somewhere or working for the government. The in-house counsel positions are hard to get, but depending on your political orientation, I'd PM you a suggestion to try in the Portland area.

What type of job are you waiting to hear back from?

I also think that if you want to go into law enforcement, you should check the FBI and ATF web sites to see if you can pass their tests (physical ability). That way you can continue to use your legal education a little more.

[Ksyrup]

I've done both the government gig and now the private gig, and they each have their pluses and minuses. In my case, I used the government gig as a springboard to a well-paying private gig representing clients at the state agency I used to work for. I learned just enough to be dangerous, then took off.

It really is the classic trade-off - with the government, I was paid decently, but my wife and I struggled to even be able to afford to buy a house (my wife was a teacher, and we just happen to live in the one city in America that doesn't need teachers). But I got off at 5 most days, had almost 5 weeks worth of vacation/sick time (which frankly were one and the same) a year, could gab on about the weekend football games without missing much "work," and it was a relatively low-stress job where I was able to quickly rise among my co-workers. But for the money issues, I would have stayed.

Now in private practice, I've got a good, probably atypical job. Only moderately stressful, I'm at work from about 7am to 6pm, hardly ever work weekends, no real billable hour requirements, and I'm making nearly 3 times what I made with the government. However, I haven't had a full week off of work for 2 years - and that includes having a baby last year. The wife and I are going to Hawaii in July, and that will be the first week-long vacation I've had since June of 2003.

Oddly enough, I find the clients to be very much alike - they're usually unreasonable and do tremendously stupid things that I have to clean up. But at least I'm getting paid hourly to do it now...

If you're in a low-paying private gig that is overworking you, you might want to try a government job. If you can specialize in a particular area and set yourself apart from the career state worker types, you will be attractive to firms who work before those agencies and are looking for someone who needs little or no training and knows the ins and outs of the agency you worked for. That's how I got my job.

In any event, good luck.

[gstelmack]

Generally speaking this is the case. There are a couple of exceptions (government employer or a state with a constitutional right to privacy) but for the most part the "bad reference" liability fear is pretty stupid since previous employers are now being hit with quite a few law suits after failing to disclose information that they should have.

(A school near me gave a letter of rec to an employee in order to get him to quit. He had been accused by a few children of molestation. He went to another school with his letter from the previous school as part of the negotiated severence. He was then accused of molestation at the new school and the parents of the new school sued both schools. The second school sued the first school as well for indemnification.)
This why the employer will only say "yes they worked here between these dates". They won't say anything negative or positive. Your school example is because they gave a positive letter of recommendation.

[Grid Iron]

He said I am wasting my skill, and that if I do not like private practice with him, I should look first to go into a government lawyer position.

I've been a prosecutor my entire nine-year career and I love it (1 year as a U.S. Attorney, 8 years as a Deputy DA in two different offices). It's the best job anyone could do as a lawyer, in my opinion.

I agree with your boss. You should try being a DA or Assistant U.S. Attorney. If you're not tied to your current area, apply all over the U.S. Lots of great opportunities in the Department of Justice in DC.

I have a friend who used to work with the DOJ Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Section. He flew all over the world investigating major drug organizations.

Another friend of mine who works for DOJ prosecutes Nazi war criminals who are hiding in the U.S.

My dream job would be to prosecute war criminals in the Hague.

If you don't want to be a lawyer, try the FBI. A law degree is very helpful. I know several FBI agents who left law practice for "the action."

I've worked with lots of DEA agents, and that would be a fun job, too.

I considered being a cop myself. However, being a Deputy DA, I know what being a cop is really like. Dealing with drunks and dirtbags most of the time, with very little appreciation for what you do.

BUT, if you stick with it long enough, you could become a detective and do murder investigations. But that takes a long time, and I don't have the patience (or the physical strength) to deal with drug addicts and gangsters.

if you have any questions or want any advice, feel free to PM me.

[judicial clerk]

I am not worried about the recommendation from my current employer. They will say that I am great just like my other employers. My current employer is sorry to see me go. He just will not pay me any more because he can find 50 people willing to take my place for less money.

Mgadfly, politically speaking, I am an independent (fiscally conservative, socially liberal). I don't know if that will work for what you had in mind. I do appreciate your thoughts on my employment. Your ideas are similar to what my former Judge and some of my close attorney friends have said. My problem is that I have not found any of those jobs. I came close on a two in-house jobs, but no banana. I also have come-up short on all the government agency jobs I have applied for. The only jobs I have been offered are roughly the same as the one I've got.

I do not want to totally give up yet, and I would like to set up a side-practice if it is feasible. Also, while I feel it is early to give up on law, it is getting late for me to start in law-enforcement. I feel that if I want to go in this direction, I need to do it now and not wait three more years to try out a different job.

Regarding the FBI, or other federal law enforcement agencies, I think they are a great idea, but My wife does not want to relocate and I am not sure that I can pass the background. Youthful indescretions may preclude me.

[sooner333]

Regarding the FBI, or other federal law enforcement agencies, I think they are a great idea, but My wife does not want to relocate and I am not sure that I can pass the background. Youthful indescretions may preclude me.

In my Criminal Justice class, my professor said that they aren't quite as hard-ass as they used to be. In fact, you can now have smoked marajuana at least a certain amount of times. I mean, I guess you couldn't have gone too crazy, but it seems as if they are loosening up parts of their check.

[mgadfly]

This why the employer will only say "yes they worked here between these dates". They won't say anything negative or positive. Your school example is because they gave a positive letter of recommendation.

They won't lose a suit for telling the truth (assuming they can prove what the truth is). The employers that just say dates are attempting to limit liability. This trend has led to a new waive of litigation involving (a) whether certain employers have an affirmative duty to reveal certain information and (b) whether certain representations about a former employee's dates of employment gives rise to some form of liability (is it misleading).

The point is that even if the school had said nothing except provided dates, the trend is, they get sued. Thus, the liability they avoided (being sued for telling the truth about a former employee) gives rise to a new suit. Neither is likely to succeed, but the former employer often times ends up in court either way. If I were advising a client, I'd recommend telling the truth to the extent that it is documented (especially if you are a school which is more likely to have an affirmative duty).

[Desnudo]

Have you considered a lucrative career as an airplane technician?

[judicial clerk]

Thanks for all of the info. It seems as though my lawyer friends are telling me to keep practicing law and my law enforcement friends are saying be a cop. (of course, most of my cop friends hate lawyers).

My current employer is actually being suprisingly supportive. It seems the only thing he is unwilling to do is pay me a decent wage.

The advice from you guys to try a government position sounds like a good idea and I have been given the same advice by a lot of my friends. My problem is that I am getting too old to start a law enforcement career and if I do not start the law enforcement career now, it will be too late.

Am i crazy to think that I could work in law enforcement and keep a small private practice going on the side?

[cartman]

Am i crazy to think that I could work in law enforcement and keep a small private practice going on the side?

Cool, you can book 'em, then offer to be their attorney... :)

[A-Husker-4-Life]

I've been a prosecutor my entire nine-year career and I love it (1 year as a U.S. Attorney, 8 years as a Deputy DA in two different offices). It's the best job anyone could do as a lawyer, in my opinion.


WOW, GI I didn't know that about you.....sweet.... Hey, that's how you negotiated all those draft picks from me in the Hurst Trade :D

[sterlingice]

Cool, you can book 'em, then offer to be their attorney... :)"Now, see this is where I screwed up so we could easily get you off on that." ;)

SI

[wbatl1]

Bah. Nothing to be nervous about.

When it comes to these sort of background checks, the only thing they can do is call your HR person and ask for verification of your employment there. All your HR people can say is whether or not you've worked there, and for how long. That's it. It is extremely unlikely (and probably illegal, without your consent) for them to speak to your manager.

The difference is he might be applying to be a cop, where they worry less about the legality and the background check matters

[HomerJSimpson]

I wish I could say that (the title). I came very, very close.

[Shepp]

I don't make a lot of money and I am feeling burned out by the long hours and the pressure. I am considering leaving my profession and taking a job as a cop.

I can promise you that you probably are not going to get any more money or work any less hours being a police officer than you would as an attorney. I have been in law enforcement for three years now and I'm just about at the end of my rope with the corruption, the favortism, and the liability. If you are seriously thinkning of moving to the enforcement side of the legal system I strongly recommend applying with a ferderal agency.

[KevinNU7]

What kind of lawyer doesn't make good money?

[JasonC23]

What kind of lawyer doesn't make good money?
An honest one?

(rim shot)

[Ksyrup]

What kind of lawyer doesn't make good money?
When I started at a government agency in 1997, my starting salary was $24,900. Not too great. I could barely afford rent, my car, andmy loan payments.

At the same time, I had a buddy who applied for a job with a small firm on Marco Island, and they offered him $32,000. When they made the offer, they sent him an article about how first year associates didn't make all that much, basically suggesting that he shouldn't expect anything more. So when he wrote back to decline their offer, he sent a copy of a recent article about Shaq's signing with LA for $115M or whatever it was. That was high comedy!

[Wolfpack]

I wish I could say that (the title). I came very, very close.

But, who'll work in sector 7G to ensure the safety of the plant?

[JasonC23]

But, who'll work in sector 7G to ensure the safety of the plant?
Don't worry, the drinking bird is ready to go.

[sterlingice]

When I started at a government agency in 1997, my starting salary was $24,900. Not too great. I could barely afford rent, my car, andmy loan payments.

At the same time, I had a buddy who applied for a job with a small firm on Marco Island, and they offered him $32,000. When they made the offer, they sent him an article about how first year associates didn't make all that much, basically suggesting that he shouldn't expect anything more. So when he wrote back to decline their offer, he sent a copy of a recent article about Shaq's signing with LA for $115M or whatever it was. That was high comedy!
Beautiful!

SI

[judicial clerk]

can promise you that you probably are not going to get any more money or work any less hours being a police officer than you would as an attorney. I have been in law enforcement for three years now and I'm just about at the end of my rope with the corruption, the favortism, and the liability. If you are seriously thinkning of moving to the enforcement side of the legal system I strongly recommend applying with a ferderal agency.


Thanks for this post. I agree that as a new cop I won't make as much as i do now, but the difference is not so much that it a golden handcuffs situation. I also agree that the potential as a lawyer is way more than as a cop. This is part of the reason I might do some legal work on the side.

I find favoritism distasteful myself, but I am a pretty personable guy and I can usually navigate these types of situations pretty well.

The corruption you mention is disturbing to me. I will not act corruptly and I won't tolerate it amongst the other cops. The cop friends I know seem to have high integrity and I did not consider that this would be a problem. The job will not work out for me if there is corruption going on.

I am going to apply with government agencies, i am just concerned about be forced to relocate. Wifey does not want this.

I suppose I could embrace the corruption, and it might even dovetail nicely with a side-practice as a lawyer. I will call this the Sterlingrice/Cartman gambit.

I had not considered a job in the fast paced career as an airplane technician. i also had not considered dnetal hygenist, truck driver, bartender, or computer technician.

The sad thing is I just kicked ass in an arbitration I had yesterday. oh well.