Cards with 7 in the 9th!

[Cards4ever]

What a game, Cards behind 9-3 in the 9th put up 7 that included a 3 run shot by Edmonds and a 2 run homer by Mabry that put them ahead 10-9 and win the game!

[DeToxRox]

I saw that. Unreal. The Reds pitching is horrendous, but really, even that means nothing. Cards just got it done.

[mtaystl03]

A - W - E - S - O - M - E

[Poli]

I knew the Red pitching staff was bad, but even I turned the game off in the 8th down 9-3. I was very happy to see we won, though.

:)

[Ksyrup]

I was catching bits and pieces of the game during commercial breaks of The Batchelor (Monday nights belong to the wife), and the last thing I saw was someone for the Reds being walked with the bases loaded to make the score 8-3. I figured it was over, so when The Batchelor ended, I threw in a DVD I got with a CD yesterday and watched for about 20 minutes. I turned ESPN back on, and it's 10-9. Unbelievable.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I caught the recap of this on WLW last night, just unbelievable. Poor Marty sounded like he was in shock.

[Balldog]

Still pissed about this one.

[VPI97]

Fuckers

[MizzouRah]

What a game, Cards behind 9-3 in the 9th put up 7 that included a 3 run shot by Edmonds and a 2 run homer by Mabry that put them ahead 10-9 and win the game!
Where you been?

I was on the phone with my Dad when Jimmy hit that one out to make it 9-8, I said, "If we just would have pulled Journell out sooner, sigh." Then, the misplay by Casey.. and BAM! Maybry!!!!

I'm surprised they kept Graves in after the Jimmy Edmonds bomb.


Todd

[WSUCougar]

*dances a victory jig*

[korme]

:( i hate baseball

[Cards4ever]

Where you been?

I was on the phone with my Dad when Jimmy hit that one out to make it 9-8, I said, "If we just would have pulled Journell out sooner, sigh." Then, the misplay by Casey.. and BAM! Maybry!!!!

I'm surprised they kept Graves in after the Jimmy Edmonds bomb.


Todd


Can't get to this site from work anymore, it's blocked.

If I didn't think Albert had a chance to hit again, I probably would have turned it off too, but, I love to watch that guy hit and got the bonus plan on top of it all!

[Ksyrup]

I watched last night's 9th inning. Despite the fact that LaRussa has a law degree from the same place I do, I still can't stand the way he uses his pitching staff. Even when it works. Five different pitchers to get 3 outs. That guy is the human equivalent to the last minute of a basketball game. He's the manager the Simpson's was lampooning in that episode where Burns pinch-hit for Strawberry because a lefty was pitching.

More importantly, he's screwing up other managers who think they should emulate him, like Alan Trammell. Even though I didn't care who won, I was rooting against the Cards just because of the pitching changes. Ugh!

[MizzouRah]

I watched last night's 9th inning. Despite the fact that LaRussa has a law degree from the same place I do, I still can't stand the way he uses his pitching staff. Even when it works. Five different pitchers to get 3 outs. That guy is the human equivalent to the last minute of a basketball game. He's the manager the Simpson's was lampooning in that episode where Burns pinch-hit for Strawberry because a lefty was pitching.

More importantly, he's screwing up other managers who think they should emulate him, like Alan Trammell. Even though I didn't care who won, I was rooting against the Cards just because of the pitching changes. Ugh!
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Damn that guy likes to drag games out. I would have left Tavarez in, but hey I'm just an IT guy. :)

Tonight should be a good one.. after the hit players exchange last night we'll see what Tony has up his sleeve tonight.

Todd

[Cards4ever]

Hey, if King had gotten the 2 hitters he faced, he would have been left in. Sure it makes for a longer inning, but, that's why it's bullpen by committee. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's not so much Larussa, it's the pitchers failing to get the outs that they are supposed to get.

[Ksyrup]

Then why pull Tavares? One batter faced, one K. I know, I know, the perecentages...always the percentages!

[Balldog]

The guys that La Russa has in the bullpen are the type of guys you have to play the percentages with, none of them have dominate stuff but they all specialize in getting a certain type (L/R) of hitter out.

[Ksyrup]

I'm convinced LaRussa does that on purpose. He probably had the chance to pick up Brad Lidge for Cal Eldred last year, but couldn't stomach the idea of having a reliever pitch 2 straight innings while he had to sit on his genius in the dugout, so he scrapped that trade and went with Jarvis/Flores/Reyes instead.

[primelord]

Then why pull Tavares? One batter faced, one K. I know, I know, the perecentages...always the percentages!
In this case the percentages seem to make quite a bit of sense. Dunn is 3 for 5 against Tavares in his career and left handed hitters are hitting .311 off of him in his career.

So Tavares doesn't pitch well to lefties as it is and you have a lefty who has had success against him in the past. It seems like a no brainer to me.

[Ksyrup]

I guess I'm of the school that thinks 5 ABs is probably a tad too small of a sample size to get 3 other guys warming up in the bullpen (and knowing that you'll have to bring in 2 guys once you take Tavarez out) when the guy out there hasn't shown he is having problems. Warming up causes fatigue, too, not just pitching. Throwing 4 relievers in an inning when 2, at most, would have sufficed, is ridiculous. And the guy does it game after game.

[primelord]

I guess I'm of the school that thinks 5 ABs is probably a tad too small of a sample size to get 3 other guys warming up in the bullpen (and knowing that you'll have to bring in 2 guys once you take Tavarez out) when the guy out there hasn't shown he is having problems. Warming up causes fatigue, too, not just pitching. Throwing 4 relievers in an inning when 2, at most, would have sufficed, is ridiculous. And the guy does it game after game.
I agree that if the only thing you had to go on was 5 at bats then it isn't enough info. For some reason you are discounting the pther piece of my point. In the past 3 years he has had 497 at bats against left handers. They are hitting .310 with a .407 OBP against him. Opposing hitters OPS for lefties is almost 200 points higher against Tavarez than against righties.

If you are going to make an argument here the better argument is why wasn't King left in to face Kearns. Not why was Tavarez pulled to avoid Dunn. King has had more success against righties in his career than Tavarez has had against lefties. However both pitchers are FAR better against their respective sides.

[Ksyrup]

But King wasn't performing. I have no problem with him yanking a pitcher who isn't getting outs. Having designated lefty relievers is one thing; when you're treating the best arm in your bullpen as a designated righty, you're asking for trouble. If not in that game, then down the line, when the 6 guys you had warming up and/or pitched every night can't keep up that pace.

I don't have access to lefty/right stats, but I guess my problem is that he's traded a righty/lefty matchup of Tavarez against Dunn for a lefty/right matchup of Flores against Randa. Now, Joe Randa is no Adam Dunn, but Randy Flores is hardly Julian Tavarez, either. And Randa had a great AB against Flores, almost gapping one to tie the game. If I had to choose, I'd rather have the better reliever against the better hitter, even if the perecentages don't match up. Using Tavarez, the best arm in the bullpen, for one batter, while letting Flores pitch to 2 guys, just doesn't make sense to me.

[bossfan2000]

I'm convinced LaRussa does that on purpose. He probably had the chance to pick up Brad Lidge for Cal Eldred last year, but couldn't stomach the idea of having a reliever pitch 2 straight innings while he had to sit on his genius in the dugout, so he scrapped that trade and went with Jarvis/Flores/Reyes instead.

I didnt realize what a jacka$$ LaRusa was until a year or two ago. Wasn't too pleases with the Braves comments he made over the weekend, either.

[MizzouRah]

I didnt realize what a jacka$$ LaRusa was until a year or two ago. Wasn't too pleases with the Braves comments he made over the weekend, either.
Eh.. the Braves are whiners as well.. heck, when Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz were the starters, it was amazing how much different their strikezones were.

Like him or hate him.. he's a HOF manager.


Todd

[primelord]

Again though Flores has had better success against righties than Tavarez has had against lefties. Tavarez has great stuff, but left handers especially ones who have a long reach and cover the plate well like Dunn give him fits.

As LaRussa says all the time he is going to get 2nd guessed no matter what he does. If he leaves Tavarez in and Dunn hits one out to tie the game everyone would have been pointing out that Tavarez has had poor success against lefties in the past and Dunn has had success against him in the past. Perhaps we just need to agree to disagree here, but despite Tavarez being the better reliever overall I think the Cards had a better chance of coming out of that game with a win with Flores facing Randa than with Tavarez facing Dunn.

[Ksyrup]

I understand why he did what he did...I just think consistently managing like that borders on overkill. I mean, I can't argue with the results, either in that game or for his career. He knows what he's doing. I just think he purposely takes the long way home becaus it makes him look like a better tactician, when he could likely accomplish the same thing much more efficiently.

[WSUCougar]

All of which is moot if you leave Marquis in to finish off his gem. He was fired up and pitching a three-hitter with a four-run lead. He was getting ground balls all night. Give the man at least one more batter.

[judicial clerk]

The Reds manager is a moran.

[Bearcat729]

Damn it's going to be a shame when Adam Dunn leaves to go play in Houston.

[GoldenEagle]

I'm convinced LaRussa does that on purpose. He probably had the chance to pick up Brad Lidge for Cal Eldred last year, but couldn't stomach the idea of having a reliever pitch 2 straight innings while he had to sit on his genius in the dugout, so he scrapped that trade and went with Jarvis/Flores/Reyes instead.
When was that trade on the table?

[Cards4ever]

It never was on the table, just trying to make some kind of point.

If Izzy was available, this whole conversation would not be taking place. If nothing else as Cardinal fans, it's good, cause the bullpen is getting put in tough positions now, so when the games are even more high stakes they will have a idea of what they need to do and not be so nervous.

[Ksyrup]

When was that trade on the table?
Just a joke...

[Balldog]

Just a joke...

It's a joke but it probably a pretty accurate statement as to how La Russa manages his team. He'd rather have 3 role pitchers rather than 1 stud closer.

[MizzouRah]

It's a joke but it probably a pretty accurate statement as to how La Russa manages his team. He'd rather have 3 role pitchers rather than 1 stud closer.
I disagree. He uses Izzy two straight innings plenty of times. With Izzy out, he has a bullpen by committee. He's always managed like that when his ace closer has been out.

Really, the point is moot - the Cardinals are playing extremely well with him as the manager and have for many years under his tutlidge.


Todd

[Cards4ever]

It's a joke but it probably a pretty accurate statement as to how La Russa manages his team. He'd rather have 3 role pitchers rather than 1 stud closer.


Really huh? You don't think Tony had some say in signing Izzy? And what about that Eckersley guy he had in Oakland? Guess he was a role pitcher too. :rolleyes:

[SackAttack]

I'll see your 7 in the 9th, and raise you 10 in the first!

[MizzouRah]

Damn these Padres!!


Todd

[Honolulu_Blue]

GO WINGS!!!!!!

[Buccaneer]

Pads are having a nice little run now. Glad to see the team coming together.

[primelord]

GO WINGS!!!!!!
Boo!!!!!!!!!!!

[korme]

I went to the Reds game today. 11-3 win over the Dadjas. I am responsible for ending our losing streak.

First place is ours.

[WSUCougar]

The Cards have dropped 11 runs on the Pads in the 1st inning. Yup, I said 11. And it's not over yet!

[WSUCougar]

Okay, it's over. 11-0 after one.

[Fonzie]

The Cards have dropped 11 runs on the Pads in the 1st inning. Yup, I said 11. And it's not over yet!

It would appear they're trying to make up for last 3 games - pile it on, baby!

[WSUCougar]

Walker adds a 2-run bomb in the 2nd...13-0.

[HomerJSimpson]

Well, the Braves have scored 16, and Mike Hampton is about to finish a 1-hit shut out. That's decent.

[HomerJSimpson]

Well, it'll be at least a two hit, but off a infield single.

[HomerJSimpson]

Skip Carey, "A long one here, and they'll cut the lead to 14."

Funny stuff.

[Easy Mac]

wow, Houston gave up 16 runs to the braves, 38 in 4 games... man, their pitching is horrible.

[Easy Mac]

dola,

Mike Hampton has the highest batting average on the team, and the #4 ERA (#1 among starters) on the team.

[Buccaneer]

Knew the Cards would win today. Pads starter was/is no better than an AA pitcher.

[Ksyrup]

I figured this was the best thread to pick up on the discussion of Tony LaRussa's "genius." He lets Marquis bat - and not just bat, but swing away - with 1 on and none out in the 8th inning of a tie game, and then pinch hits for Jim Edmonds with Albert Pujols simply because of the lefty/lefty matchup Edmonds would have been faced with. I realize he doesn't hit lefties all that great...but c'mon, he's Jim Edmonds, not John Mabry. Plus, had Marquis bunted and Eckstein followed with his single, they would have scored before Edmonds even came up. They got 2 hits, 1 walk and a HBP, and were lucky to score 1 run that inning, plus used up their best pinch-hitter to pinch hit for one of the top 3 or 4 hitters on the team.

Then in the 9th, after using Pujols the previous inning, he's got no one worth using to pinch-hit for Marquis with 2 outs and a runner on 3rd. So Marquis hits for himself. Now, he's a very good hitter. But with a runner on 3rd in the 9th inning, did he really have a chance? Pitchers will lose their concentration with the pitcher at bat in the 4th inning with 2 outs. Cheap hits are (relatively) easy to come by in that kind of situation. But with the game on the line, Marquis had no chance, even against Cormier. They failed to score, King was brought in in the 9th, and they lost.

Just a comedy of bad decisions brought on by over-thinking the situation and getting caught short.

[WSUCougar]

He's an "over-manager" to be sure. He pinch hit So Taguchi for Edmonds the previous game for the lefty/righty matchup. Edmonds has been struggling/injured, so there is some just cause, but those are moves I wouldn't make, either.

Yeah, you gotta bunt Marquis in the 8th. I didn't see the game, but perhaps even a hit-and-run would've been a better choice.

[MizzouRah]

Hey, Marquis is the leading hitter on the team. :P

[Ksyrup]

Speaking of Edmonds and getting hurt, he made another beautiful catch in CF last night. HOWEVER...you know how there have been long-running critics of Edmonds, suggesting that he times his catches just so he can leap for them? Well, last night, as the ball was in the air, I noticed it right away, too. The camera angle was such that I could see the trajectory of the ball and him running (jogging) for it at the same time from up above and behind the catcher. And I was able to, in a split-second, judge where the ball was going to come down and immediately had the thought that he knew it, too, and was not running fast enough to make a clean catch. And then I remembered it was Edmonds out there and immediately became suspicious. And of course, he did his 30 second "I look like I broke some ribs or something...no, I'll be all right" recovery thing right after it happened, too.

I'm convinced that catch was one of those that other players have made comments about in the past. He made a great play, but if he had really sprinted for it, he would have caught it without the leap. There's no question in my mind. I'm now officially on the list of people who think he does those things to artificially grow his legend as a great fielder.