I Love Relegation Battles

[21C]

I love the battle at the end of a football/soccer season where a team is fighting to stay in the league. I love it even more than the battle at the top of the league. There just seems to be more emotion with the team's fans as they keep one eye on the match they're watching and the other eye ( or ear ) on results from other grounds.

Case in point - in the English Premier League ( substitute any other league or country ), there is a four-way fight among Norwich ( 33 points ), Southampton ( 32 ), Crystal Palace ( 32 ) and West Bromwich Albion ( 31 ) with one game left for each. Three of those teams will get relegated and only one will survive. Right now it could be any one of them that stays up.

Norwich looked dead and gone until they upset Man Utd 2-0 in early April. They had only won three games out of 31 before that time and have now gone on to win 4 out of 6 ( 4th best form over that period ).

I'm not a fan of any one of those teams but I appreciate the feelings that each group of fans must be experiencing. Right now they believe/hope that their team will stay in the EPL but they will be absolutely crushed if their team fails. The raw emotion and the tears from those desolute fans always brings a tear to my eye at this time of the season.

Congratulations to Chelsea and their fans for winning the title for the first time in 50 years but spare a thought for the teams at the other end. The drama at the bottom end of the table is almost as good or better.

------
As a side note, I don't think that there is anything similar to this in American sports apart from the loss of a team by relocation - like the Colts moving to Indy. I like the drama of the end of the football or baseball season with teams fighting for a playoff spot but it just isn't the same.

[SackAttack]

I'm not much of a footie fan, but I'll always have a special place in my heart for West Brom. During my CM days, that was the team I ran with.

Boing boing, Baggies!

[robbgmaier]

for almost no reason at all I'm rooting for the canaries (Norwich City). I am hopeful that they will be in one of FSC's televised matches next weekend.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

That would be great if The NFL could instigate something like that.

[Desnudo]

for almost no reason at all I'm rooting for the canaries (Norwich City). I am hopeful that they will be in one of FSC's televised matches next weekend.

I'm rooting for them because I played a long FM game with them. They work the hardest, and seem to have nice fans, versus the angry thugs you usually see rooting. *Liverpool* *cough* *Liverpool*

[SFL Cat]

Please explain the details of relegation...something I've never really been clear about. I know teams move up and down from the various leagues, but how exactly is it decided when a team has to move down or gets to move up?

[cartman]

Please explain the details of relegation...something I've never really been clear about. I know teams move up and down from the various leagues, but how exactly is it decided when a team has to move down or gets to move up?

It is very simple, it happens at the end of every season. Since there are no playoffs, this is the closest thing to it for soccer leagues. They simply take the top three or four (depending on country and league) teams, and allow them to move up to a higher level league, and the bottom 3 or 4 teams drop down to a lower division.

One example to use for the US, was if baseball followed this method. You'd have the major leagues, then AAA, AA, and A. At the end of each season, the 4 worst MLB teams would be sent to AAA, and the best 4 AAA would move to MLB. The same would happen all the way down to A. In fact, in England, there are "conference teams" which at best are semi-pro teams, and at worst, recreational league teams. They can compete to enter the pro leagues at the lowest level.

[Abe Sargent]

Please explain the details of relegation...something I've never really been clear about. I know teams move up and down from the various leagues, but how exactly is it decided when a team has to move down or gets to move up?

There are a set number of teams that get relegated and promoted in each league. For example, the English First Division promotes three teams to the EPL, and the EPL relegates three teams to the First. Make sense?

Teams acquire points during a season for wins and ties. The twenty teams in the EPL are ranked according to poinmts, and the bottom three are relegated.

Different leagues can have different rules for promotion. In some leagues, the top two teams get promotoed automatically while there is a four way playoff for the third promotion spot with the teams that had 3rd-6th place in the league.

There may be leagues that I don't know about that have relegation battles similarly, with multiple teams facing off, and the losers marching on in a four way matchup or whatnot (though I've never heard of them if they are out there).


Relegation gives the bottom teams something to play for, promotion rewards the top teams, and it's all a lot of fun. Imagine if the NCAA had the bottom team in a BCS conference get relegated to a mid-major very year (in, say. football). The Baylors and Temples would have been out of BCS conferences a long time ago while the Fresno States would be in them. It gives smaller teams a way to find out if they are really able to play the with the big dogs, because you get promoted. Can you stay, or will you be relegated the following season? It's a fairly common occurance to see a team that was relegated or promoted one season to go back to their previous division the next season.

-Anxiety

[ColtCrazy]

I'm a HUGE (Crystal) Palace fan! I go to a game now and then when I visit my father's family that live nearby. I'm absolutely shocked they gave up a 90th minute goal to get earn a draw. They could have owned their own destiny. :rolleyes:

I think their fate is sealed now, but at least they made it. They shouldn't have even been there. They were the last team in the playoffs last year (finishing 6th) and upset two teams to sneak into the Premiership. Hopefully the added money this year will help them back up.

Speaking of FM, if you want a really good goal scorer, pick up Palace's Andy Johnson. He scored 27 for me the last season I played in FM. He's young and will get better. I hope he doesn't leave if they get relegated.

My money's on Norwich staying up, they have the easiest last game (vs. Fulham)

[Flasch186]

CP's forward is like 6'8"

[MIJB#19]

I've got some experience as an amateur volleyball player on promotion and relegation battles.

Trust me, figthing against relegation is only fun to watch for the objective fans of the sports, not the players or team fans involved. On the other hand, the battle for promotion, including winning a 1-of-3-teams clash can be really, really fun!

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

We need to implement this relegation system into all aspects of American sport. It woulld be more interesting to fans and sports books.

[SackAttack]

We need to implement this relegation system into all aspects of American sport. It woulld be more interesting to fans and sports books.

Just think, the way this season is going, a relegation system might've yielded the Yankees making the drop. ;)

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Now, once a team gets relegated is there a time frame (say 2-3 yrs) before they can come back to EPL or can they can come back after having one good year?

[cartman]

Now, once a team gets relegated is there a time frame (say 2-3 yrs) before they can come back to EPL or can they can come back after having one good year?

No timelimit, they can go back the next year if they play well enough.

[McSweeny]

Now, once a team gets relegated is there a time frame (say 2-3 yrs) before they can come back to EPL or can they can come back after having one good year?

they can come back up the next year

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Thanks for clarifying that up.

[AlexB]

CP's forward is like 6'8"

That must be Peter Crouch of Southampton you're thinking of? Palace have Andy Johnson who's scored more than all bar Henry this year

(every one of them I believe from the penalty spot after he has made a determined run into the box in order to fall over as soon as someone breathes on him! :rolleyes: )

[Sharpieman]

for almost no reason at all I'm rooting for the canaries (Norwich City). I am hopeful that they will be in one of FSC's televised matches next weekend.
The reason should be Darren Huckerby, I love that guy.

[AlexB]

The reason should be Darren Huckerby, I love that guy.

See my post above, except minus the goals

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Has Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal ever been relegated?

[AlexB]

Has Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal ever been relegated?

Chelsea were quite regularly in what is now known as the Championship in the 1980's
(originally it was division 2, then when division 1 became the Premier league division 2 changed its name to division 1, now its the Championship)

Man Utd were relegated in the 1970s: one of the ex players, and one of their great players, Denis Law scored the goal against them that sent them down - and he was playing for Man City at the time! And just to rub salt into it, he backheeled it in! But he famously didn't celebrate - he was professional and had to score, but didn't enjoy it.

Arsenal have only been relegated once, in 1913, so in terms of modern football, it doesn't really count.

As soon as the minimum wage was abolished in the 60s, the game started to change dramatically and the balance of footballing power shifted. Teams like Burnley, Blackpool, Huddersfield, etc used to be strong sides, but they couldn't afford the increase wage demands of players, so gradually slipped from contention.

Since then football has basically been dominated by teams in Manchester, Liverpool and London, with other teams getting an occasional look in or short period of success (e.g. Blackburn, Aston Villa, Leeds, Ipswich spring to mind)

[RPI-Fan]

I'm a HUGE (Crystal) Palace fan! I go to a game now and then when I visit my father's family that live nearby. I'm absolutely shocked they gave up a 90th minute goal to get earn a draw. They could have owned their own destiny. :rolleyes:

I think their fate is sealed now, but at least they made it. They shouldn't have even been there. They were the last team in the playoffs last year (finishing 6th) and upset two teams to sneak into the Premiership. Hopefully the added money this year will help them back up.

Speaking of FM, if you want a really good goal scorer, pick up Palace's Andy Johnson. He scored 27 for me the last season I played in FM. He's young and will get better. I hope he doesn't leave if they get relegated.

My money's on Norwich staying up, they have the easiest last game (vs. Fulham)

I'm a Palace fan, too.

Just plain heartbreaking watching that match.

It's not over yet, though, so I guess just have to get ready for next week and see what we can do. I wonder if Dowie will go 4-4-2 with Ventola up top?

~rpi-fan

[Bo Jackson's Hip]

I'm a Palace fan, too.

Just plain heartbreaking watching that match.

It's not over yet, though, so I guess just have to get ready for next week and see what we can do. I wonder if Dowie will go 4-4-2 with Ventola up top?

~rpi-fan

Proof positive that FM has changed folks lives. :)

[RPI-Fan]

Proof positive that FM has changed folks lives. :)

Some, but not all.

I use real life soccer as a tool to understand FM, and not the other way around.

[Airhog]

dont the teams also have to meet some other requirements?

Like training facilities, and number of seats?

[ColtCrazy]

You would think Dowie would do that. I just hope that should they get a goal up, they don't go all out defensive. It's going to be an uphill climb to stay atop, but anything's possible. A win for Palace and a couple of draws, and they stay up.

All things considered, Dowie's done a very good job at Palace. There'll be a lot of questions for next year, depending on what happens at Selhurst Park next weekend.

[Mac Howard]

I'd like to barrack (I'm learning the Australian lingo :rolleyes: ) for Albion - Robson was a model player and took on a hell of a job when taking over as manager - but Harry Redknapp has to get my sympathy. Not only has he the worst hang-dog look in the Premiership - as if every one of the 20,000 fans has trod on him coming through the gate - but has this unfortunate twitch whenever anything goes wrong for his team on the pitch. You feel like giving him a cuddle and say "there, there Harry, it's only relegation" :) Harry and Southampton have to get the sympathy vote.

[ice4277]

I'd like to see Norwich stay up, so that when Ipswich win the playoffs in the Championship, we'll be able to see that derby in the Premier League. That would be pretty neat.

[Huckleberry]

Torquay was heartbreakingly relegated from League One this weekend.

[Desnudo]

The reason should be Darren Huckerby, I love that guy.

Shame he lost the Mullet of the Year award to John Terry.

[Marc Vaughan]

Brighton stayed up by the skin of our teeth ....

Last sundays match was a real nail biter, there were three teams in the muck with us, we were playing Ipswich who needed a win to have a chance of automatic promotion and needed a draw to ensure we stayed up.

Went a goal down early in the first half due to a mistake by Adam Virgo who's normally one of our best players, he made up for it around 5 minutes later by half-volleying in an equaliser (obscure fact: His normal position is a defender, but he played up front for some of this season due to injuries elsewhere and is our top-scorer this season).

At half-time things were looking rosy, we were drawing and the other two teams involved were losing .... however ....

By midway through the second half Ipswich knew they couldn't get the automatic promotion spot (Wigan were winning 3-0) what would they do at this stage? - calm down, ease off and accept the draw to conserve energy for the play offs? ... not Joe ****ing Royle, he puts on another striker to try and get the win and put us down ...

Just to add to tension ness then comes in that the other two teams in the scrap have turned things around in their games and if we do concede a goal we're looking odds on for relegation.

We survived and held the 1-1 draw (and I even thought we might get a winner towards the end) but it was a very tense day in the Vaughan household ...

[Marc Vaughan]

PS> I want Norwich to stay up - mainly because they've played nice football despite the odds of it getting them results, but also because I love the fact that they've a chairman (Delia Smith) who wears her heart on her sleeves ....

[Marc Vaughan]

Oh and finally (three posts in a row ... ;) ) ...

Don't forget the tussle for the last EUFA Cup spot between Man City and Middlesboro ..

If City win then they get the spot, if they don't then it goes to Middlesboro - should be a great match.

[ice4277]

I love the fact that they've a chairman (Delia Smith) who wears her heart on her sleeves ....
Didn't she get piss drunk at a game against Man U a few weeks ago? That was pretty funny.

[Critch]

Brighton stayed up by the skin of our teeth ....

Actually got to see this game over here, thanks to the new Setanta tv station on DirecTV. Nailbiting stuff, but a good result in the end. Sad to see them play at Withdean instead of the Goldstone Ground where they belonged.

As a Brighton fan, I hope Palace go down.

Setanta is covering the Coca Cola Championship promotion playoffs live, if anybody needs an excuse to pay out the $12 to order it.

[Northwood_DK]

OT. In another relegation battle Denmark just managed to stay in the A-group in the ice hockey WC in Austria. We got the ticket for next year with a close 3-2 win over Germany. Now its time for a Carlsberg.

[ice4277]

Setanta is covering the Coca Cola Championship promotion playoffs live, if anybody needs an excuse to pay out the $12 to order it.
That's about the only thing I've seen listed on the channel that would make it worth my paying for. Doesn't matter either way though as I don't have satellite. I'll be saving my cash for the FA Cup final.

[Desnudo]

How do you get the FA Cup final?

[ISiddiqui]

I'm also rooting for Norwich to stay up. I love their squad with Huckerby and Ashton and I also liked Delia's call to the fans, even though she was raked over the coals for it.

[Critch]

How do you get the FA Cup final?

It's on pay-per-view. $25 I believe.

[Katon]

My problem with rooting for Southampton is that if they stay up then that'll mean all three promoted clubs going straight back down. I'm hoping Norwich stay up, personally, as I think they've been the most enjoyable to watch of the four.

[Crapshoot]

I really really want Robbo to survive- I like the guy, and I like the football he plays. Here's hoping for miracles.

[Desnudo]

It's on pay-per-view. $25 I believe.

$25 for one soccer game. When is Skysports coming to cable?

[SirFozzie]

it'll be on FSC, just not live. Something like 72 hour or 96 hour tape delay

Also, have y'all hear of something called "Cool Streaming".. a lot of the BigSoccer guys used it to get the Champions League games that ESPN weren't showing (kinda like bittorrent for live video. Problem is, it'll likely be in a foreign language). I can hunt down a link to the stuff if y'all want

[Desnudo]

My problem with rooting for Southampton is that if they stay up then that'll mean all three promoted clubs going straight back down. I'm hoping Norwich stay up, personally, as I think they've been the most enjoyable to watch of the four.

I think Southampton are boring as dirt. I hope they go down for that reason.

[Critch]

I really really want Robbo to survive- I like the guy, and I like the football he plays. Here's hoping for miracles.

I really really want Robbo to fail :) Apparently he's got a little buddha statue that he keeps in his pocket for good luck these days, it'll be clinking against his whisky bottle alledgedly.

Not relegation battles, but promotion battles. This is the schedule for Setanta's coverage of the forthcoming English lower division playoffs (according to soccertv.com):

English Football League "Championship" Promotion Playoffs
---------------------------------------------------------

Semifinals:

West Ham United vs Ipswich Town
Setanta Sports USA
Sa May 14 7am ET/4am PT LIVE

Preston North End vs Derby County
Setanta Sports USA
Su May 15 6:30am ET/3:30am PT LIVE

Ipswich Town vs West Ham United
Setanta Sports USA
We May 18 2pm ET/11am PT LIVE

Derby County vs Preston North End
Setanta Sports USA
Th May 19 2pm ET/11am PT LIVE

Final:

TBA
Setanta Sports USA
Mo May 30 9am ET/6am PT LIVE (kickoff 10am ET/7am PT)

--

English Football League "League 1" Promotion Playoffs
-----------------------------------------------------

Semifinals:

Shellield Wednesday vs Brentford
Setanta Sports USA
Th May 12 2:30pm ET/11:30am PT LIVE

Hartlepool vs Tranmere Rovers
Setanta Sports USA
Fr May 13 2:30pm ET/11:30am PT LIVE

Brentford vs Sheffield Wednesday
Setanta Sports USA
Mo May 16 2:30pm ET/11:30am PT LIVE

Tranmere Rovers vs Hartlepool
Setanta Sports USA
Tu May 17 2pm ET/11am PT LIVE

Final:

TBA
Setanta Sports USA
Su May 29 9am ET/6am PT LIVE (kickoff 10am ET/7am PT)

--

English Football League "League 2" Promotion Playoffs
-----------------------------------------------------

Semifinals:

Lincoln City vs Macclesfield
Setanta Sports USA
Sa May 14 5pm ET/2pm PT SDD

Northampton vs Southend
Setanta Sports USA
Su May 15 12noon ET/9am PT LIVE

Macclesfield vs Lincoln City
Setanta Sports USA
Sa May 21 7am ET/4am PT LIVE

Southend vs Northampton
Setanta Sports USA
Sa May 21 1pm ET/10am PT LIVE

Final:

TBA
Setanta Sports USA
Sa May 28 9am ET/6am PT LIVE (kickoff 10am ET/7am PT)



If that's not worth $12 of a soccer fans cash, then I'm a Frenchman.

[fantastic flying froggies]

If that's not worth $12 of a soccer fans cash, then I'm a Frenchman.
Somebody called me? :p

Seriously, I am really surprised to see Preston NE on that list. When I lived there in the early 90s, they were lingering in division 3 and doing poorly.

Nice to see them crawl back to their early glory. Go Preston!

[ISiddiqui]

Speaking of relegation... watching Everton play Arsenal, it's hard to believe that Everton aren't fighting to stay out of relegation (it's 7-0 Arsenal)... but instead are in the CL!

[Desnudo]

7-0, man.

[ice4277]

I have a feeling Everton will be lucky to get through the qualifying for the CL.

[ISiddiqui]

Yet they beat ManU 2-0 a few weeks back, so what does that say about the Red Devils? ;)

[21C]

Not relegation battles, but promotion battles. This is the schedule for Setanta's coverage of the forthcoming English lower division playoffs
Get your mother-loving promotion talk out of this thread. :D


I do enjoy the battle for a promotion spot but it's just not the same as a grafting arm-wrestle to stay in the top flight. You don't get ( as many ) fans leaving the ground emotionally shattered.

I just checked the tv guide here and we'll be getting the Southampton-Man U game live with the Fulham-Norwich one straight after on tape delay. I'm sure I won't be up to watching the second game ( apart from it starting at 2am here ) since they'll probably keep us updated with the other games' scores as they happen. That's the other thing I love about the last week - all the games get played at the same time. You'll hear groans or cheers from the crowd as news of goals scored at other grounds filters through.

[ice4277]

Yet they beat ManU 2-0 a few weeks back, so what does that say about the Red Devils? ;)
Well, obviously they suck :D

[condors]

I hope the doomsayers of Manchester United are being a little sarcastic. Anything can happen in the summer but i do think Rio, Heinze, Ronaldo, Rooney, and RVN will all be back they do need some players in the midfield this year and most people will say a keeper (i am partial to Tim Howard though).

Anyways Chelsea and Arsenal aren't finished and Liverpool if Gerrard and Alzono (i like them two guys in the midfield) Morientez settles in they could be very good next year (could they get Diouf a brain? technically he is their player and is a heck of a talent)

Anyways i won't be rooting for Southampton this weekend even though i think highly of Harry Redknapp, he will be fine and if they stick with him they will be back. I think Rupert Lowe is a wennie.

WBA was my pick to stay up before the season started so i will be rooting for them. I wouldn't have a problem with Norwich or Crystal Palace(i was a pseduo fan of there a few seasons ago when Brian McBride played for them on loan)

can't wait for the weekend games!

[Katon]

Certainly United are in better shape than some of the doomsayers would have you believe, but even apart from Glazer there is cause for concern. Their scoring problems (relative to their glory days) and inability to stay in the top two are both long-term trends rather than one-offs. They've finished third three years out of four now, and their goals scored total has dropped substantially (I think, don't have the figures to hand) each of those four years.

[SackAttack]

WBA was my pick to stay up before the season started so i will be rooting for them. I wouldn't have a problem with Norwich or Crystal Palace(i was a pseduo fan of there a few seasons ago when Brian McBride played for them on loan)

Yay! WBA need help, though. They gotta win, the team currently avoiding the drop needs to lose, and the two in between can do no better than draw, otherwise it's straight back down to Division 1 for the Baggies. :(

[RPI-Fan]

Norwich or Crystal Palace(i was a pseduo fan of there a few seasons ago when Brian McBride played for them on loan)

I don't think McBride played for either of these sides ever. However, I still strongly encourage you to root for Palace! :)

[SirFozzie]

Norwich! Go you Canaries!

[Critch]

I'll be cheering for Southampton because if they stay up it'll involve them beating Man Utd on the last day of the season. With the Glazer news today, a defeat on Sunday could drive them into a frenzy of whinging, moaning, and teeth gnashing.

[21C]

Halftime in most games.

Current scores:
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">HT</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Charlton Athletic</td><td class="smallTextBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">0</td><td class="smallTextBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Crystal Palace</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266816)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">HT</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Fulham</td><td class="smallTextBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(2)</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">2</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">0</td><td class="smallTextBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Norwich City</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266817)]</td></tr></tbody> </table> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">HT</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Southampton</td><td class="smallTextBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="smallTextBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Manchester United</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266821)]</td></tr></tbody> </table> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">HT</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">West Bromwich Albion</td><td class="smallTextBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">0</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">0</td><td class="smallTextBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Portsmouth</td><td class="textBold" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266823)]</td></tr></tbody> </table>
The table as it currently stands - including the live scores above
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="right">17</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="left">Southampton</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">38</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">6</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">15</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">17</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">45</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">65</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">-20</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">33</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">http://www.livescores.co.uk/graphics/up.gif</td></tr> <tr><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">18</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Norwich City</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">7</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">12</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">19</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">42</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">73</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-31</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">33</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">http://www.livescores.co.uk/graphics/down.gif</td></tr> <tr><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">19</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Crystal Palace</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">7</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">11</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">20</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">39</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">61</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-22</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">32</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">http://www.livescores.co.uk/graphics/same.gif</td></tr> <tr><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">20</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">West Bromwich Albion</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">5</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">17</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">16</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">34</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">61</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-27</td><td class="cellOn" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">32</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">http://www.livescores.co.uk/graphics/same.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[AlexB]

Yay! WBA need help, though. They gotta win, the team currently avoiding the drop needs to lose, and the two in between can do no better than draw, otherwise it's straight back down to Division 1 for the Baggies. :(

That's excatly what's happening at the moment with 30 minutes to go!

[AlexB]

Ok - that didn;t last long: what a surprise, Palace take the lead with an Andy Johnson penalty... :rolleyes:

[Crapshoot]

And Palace are tied! West Brom in the lead right now!!!!!

[AlexB]

Charlton equalise against Palace - WBA are back in 17th spot!

(I don't support any of the four, and my personal preference to stay up would be Southampton, then Norwich, followed by WBA and Palace last of all - one thing I can't stand in football is cheating, especially diving and Andy Johnson is one of the worst: so with 10 minutes to go I'm rooting for Charlton as as long as they can get a result against Palace, Johnson's season-long cheating will get it's just rewards - nothing.)

[andy m]

wanted west brom down. boring team and bryan robson is a cock. oh well.

[Crapshoot]

wanted west brom down. boring team and bryan robson is a cock. oh well.

boring ? they run their heart out, and he starts with 3 strikers - how many people have the balls to go to Old Trafford with a 3-4-3 ?

[AlexB]

Charlton hold on & WBA stay up!

[andy m]

boring ? they run their heart out, and he starts with 3 strikers - how many people have the balls to go to Old Trafford with a 3-4-3 ?

3 "strikers". they're all pretty terrible.

i was more referring to them as a club rather than their style of play. west brom just go up and down, up and down, up and down. you could get motion sickness following them. whats the point of a team like that being in the premiership? none.

[21C]

That was an amazing finish to the season. Every one of the four teams spent part of the day in 17th spot. The supporters of each of those teams would have experienced the highs of the day ( well Norwich's until their team ran on to the park ) but WBA finished the day in the Premier League for another season.

<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Birmingham City</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">2</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Arsenal</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266814)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Bolton Wanderers</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">3</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">2</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Everton</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266815)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Charlton Athletic</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">2</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">2</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Crystal Palace</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266816)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Fulham</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(2)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">6</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">0</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Norwich City</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266817)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Liverpool</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(2)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">2</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Aston Villa</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266818)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Manchester City</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Middlesbrough</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266819)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Newcastle United</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Chelsea</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266820)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Southampton</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">2</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(1)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Manchester United</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266821)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">Tottenham Hotspur</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">0</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">0</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Blackburn Rovers</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266822)]</td></tr> <tr><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">FT</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">West Bromwich Albion</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">2</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">0</td><td class="smallText" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">(0)</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Portsmouth</td><td class="text" style="padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">[details (http://www.livescores.co.uk/match.jsp?match=266823)]</td></tr> </tbody> </table> The table as it currently stands

<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr><td class="cell" colspan="2" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px;" align="left"> </td><th style="border-width: 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;">P</th><th style="border-width: 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;">W</th><th style="border-width: 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;">D</th><th style="border-width: 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;">L</th><th style="border-width: 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;">F</th><th style="border-width: 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;">A</th><th style="border-width: 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;">+/-</th><th style="border-width: 1px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;">Pts</th></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">C</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Chelsea</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">29</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">8</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">1</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">72</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">15</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">+57</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">95</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">2</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Arsenal</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">25</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">8</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">5</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">87</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">36</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">+51</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">83</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">3</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Manchester United</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">22</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">11</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">5</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">58</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">26</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">+32</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">77</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="right">4</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="left">Everton</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">18</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">7</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">13</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">45</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">46</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">-1</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">61</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">5</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Liverpool</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">17</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">7</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">14</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">52</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">41</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">+11</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">58</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">6</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Bolton Wanderers</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">16</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">10</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">12</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">49</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">44</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">+5</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">58</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">7</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Middlesbrough</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">14</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">13</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">11</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">53</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">46</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">+7</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">55</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">8</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Manchester City</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">13</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">13</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">12</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">47</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">39</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">+8</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">52</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">9</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Tottenham Hotspur</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">14</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">10</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">14</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">47</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">41</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">+6</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">52</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">10</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Aston Villa</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">12</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">11</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">15</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">45</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">52</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-7</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">47</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">11</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Charlton Athletic</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">12</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">10</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">16</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">42</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">58</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-16</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">46</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">12</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Birmingham City</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">11</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">12</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">15</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">40</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">46</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-6</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">45</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">13</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Fulham</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">12</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">8</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">18</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">52</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">60</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-8</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">44</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">14</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Newcastle United</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">10</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">14</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">14</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">47</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">57</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-10</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">44</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">15</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Blackburn Rovers</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">9</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">15</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">14</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">32</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">43</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-11</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">42</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">16</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Portsmouth</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">10</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">9</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">19</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">43</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">59</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-16</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">39</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="right">17</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="left">West Bromwich Albion</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">6</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">16</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">16</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">36</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">61</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">-25</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);" align="center">34</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">18</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Crystal Palace</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">7</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">12</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">19</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">41</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">62</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-21</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">33</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">19</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Norwich City</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">7</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">12</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">19</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">42</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">77</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-35</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 0px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">33</td></tr> <tr><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="right">20</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="left">Southampton</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">38</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">6</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">14</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">18</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">45</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">66</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 0px 1px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">-21</td><td class="cell" style="border-width: 0px 1px 1px 0px; padding: 2px 4px;" align="center">32</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Ryan S]

I am glad to see Southampton go down, they should have been relegated years ago.

[Desnudo]

3 "strikers". they're all pretty terrible.

i was more referring to them as a club rather than their style of play. west brom just go up and down, up and down, up and down. you could get motion sickness following them. whats the point of a team like that being in the premiership? none.

Basically replacing one boring team, Southampton, with another. I really wanted Norwich to stay up, but it's obvious they don't deserve it if 0-6 is the best effort they can put forward with eveything on the line. Crystal Palace would have been my next choice.

[ISiddiqui]

In the game for the last UEFA cup spot, Fowler missed a penalty for Man City which cost them a win and the UEFA cup spot... I have a feeling that Fowler is the 2nd most unpopular man for Manchester tonight (the first being Glazier, of course ;)).

[SackAttack]

Baggies! YAY!!

[RPI-Fan]

Basically replacing one boring team, Southampton, with another. I really wanted Norwich to stay up, but it's obvious they don't deserve it if 0-6 is the best effort they can put forward with eveything on the line. Crystal Palace would have been my next choice.

What a heartbreaking day. :(

Now the battle is keeping AJ, Kiraly, and perhaps even Dowie around to move right back up.

Soooooooooo frustrating that I won't be able to see Palace on TV for at least 500 days or, so, minimum, though.:(

[finkenst]

What a heartbreaking day. :(

Now the battle is keeping AJ, Kiraly, and perhaps even Dowie around to move right back up.

Soooooooooo frustrating that I won't be able to see Palace on TV for at least 500 days or, so, minimum, though.:(
FA Cup play...

[Sharpieman]

Every team in the bottom four were in the safe zone at one point or another during the day. What a great last day of the season.

[Marc Vaughan]

In the game for the last UEFA cup spot, Fowler missed a penalty for Man City which cost them a win and the UEFA cup spot... I have a feeling that Fowler is the 2nd most unpopular man for Manchester tonight (the first being Glazier, of course ;)).
I had to endure around an hour of ranting from my wife over that (she's a City fan) .....

Robbie Fowler is definitely off her xmas card list this year ;)

[Marc Vaughan]

Every team in the bottom four were in the safe zone at one point or another during the day. What a great last day of the season.
I felt sorry for Norwich, while they didn't deserve to stay up with their final day performance they have played nice football all season and been a good team to watch imho.

Dean Ashton is also a great prospect and deserves to be playing in the Premiership imho.

[Critch]

I watched the Southampton v Man Utd on ppv, Man Utd played a weakened team but still never looked like losing, sad to see Southampton's 27 years in the top division fade away like that. They had no ideas left when Man Utd went ahead. Lawrie McMenemy wouldn't have let them go down without a fight :) At least they didn't crash and burn like Norwich.

I was hoping WBA would go down, but I've got faith in Bryan Robson to mess them up next season, he'll spend all their cash and get nothing for it if his previous management spells are anything to go by. Happy Crystal Palace went down though, if they'd have stayed up this year it would have been down to Andy Johnson's undoubted skill for falling over in penalty areas.

So now we'll see the vultures swoop in, I guess. Dean Ashton and Huckerby will be linked with teams in the Premier for the next 10 weeks. Kiraly, Johnson, Niemi, Crouch, there'll be rumors of all of them moving to teams that are staying up, or coming up. Nobody should touch Lundekvam though, have your defence based around him and you're going straight down.

Since I've been plugging Setanta on DirecTV over and over, I'll do it again. West Ham v Ipswich in the Championship Promotion Playoffs on Saturday morning was one of the best games I've seen in a while, well worth the monthly Setanta fee. Brentford v Sheff Wed (Division One Playoff, second leg) this afternoon promises to be a good one too.

Sorry for mixing some promotion talk into the relegation thread there...

[Crapshoot]

I felt sorry for Norwich, while they didn't deserve to stay up with their final day performance they have played nice football all season and been a good team to watch imho.

Dean Ashton is also a great prospect and deserves to be playing in the Premiership imho.

yeah- good to see Ashton and Earnshaw both make the step up to the Premiership without failing- I'm still shocked that Norwich was the only side to make a move for Ashton, given the 2.5 million price was fairly cheap.

[21C]

I watched the Premier League highlights show where they showed the relegation matches highlights as they developed. Like Southampton's goal as Fulham scored their first against Norwich - and just as Man Utd went up 2-1, WBA took the lead against Portsmouth. They kept showing the fans' delight and anguish as fortunes changed in a few minutes.

Every year they do this has exactly the same effect on me - I start tearing up as I feel for the fans of the relegated teams. My wife cries at every sad thing she watches and it never affects me at all. I even get a chuckle at her as the sad music starts. But put the torment of a "life-and-death" sporting struggle and I turn in to a ( near ) blubbering mess.

[Critch]

My wife was laughing at the pictures of Southampton fans in tears with their heads in their hands, she thought it was pathetic grown men crying cos their team lost.

Just doesn't understand, I guess :)

[bhlloy]

3 "strikers". they're all pretty terrible.

i was more referring to them as a club rather than their style of play. west brom just go up and down, up and down, up and down. you could get motion sickness following them. whats the point of a team like that being in the premiership? none.

What have West Brom done to piss you off? Earnshaw is not a bad striker (admittedly Campbell and Horsfield are crap) and they have a few exciting players like Gera and Richardson.

If you haven't noticed it's football with relegation and promotions, and that's the name of the game. What else were Palace or Norwich going to do... get into the top half next year? Why aren't Sunderland and Wigan and whoever else goes up also boring, because they are more than likely going straight back down
Much rather see a team going up and down than Southampton... 27 years in the top flight and the past 15 of them just out of the relegation zone. What did have they ever added to the league recently?

[ISiddiqui]

My wife was laughing at the pictures of Southampton fans in tears with their heads in their hands, she thought it was pathetic grown men crying cos their team lost.

Just doesn't understand, I guess :)
Bring it up next time she tears up at a movie. ;)

Maybe it's just me, but I find it more pathetic to cry as a result of what some fictional character is doing ;).

[fantastic flying froggies]

English Football League "Championship" Promotion Playoffs
---------------------------------------------------------

Preston North End vs Derby County

Can anyboby tell me how Preston NE did?

[AlexB]

Can anyboby tell me how Preston NE did?

They beat the Sheepshaggers 2-0 at Deepdale: return leg to come.

[Desnudo]

Bring it up next time she tears up at a movie. ;)

Or an Oprah show

[fantastic flying froggies]

They beat the Sheepshaggers 2-0 at Deepdale: return leg to come.
Thanks. Is the return next week-end?

[AlexB]

Thursday 19th 7.45pm UK time: (away goals don't count extra, in case you didn't realise this - I was unaware until this season)

[Desnudo]

They beat the Sheepshaggers 2-0 at Deepdale: return leg to come.

Clarification requested on what a "Sheepshagger" is.

[ZXTT]

Clarification requested on what a "Sheepshagger" is.

I take it you haven't seen the Austin Powers movies...

[AlexB]

Clarification requested on what a "Sheepshagger" is.

In this usage, it refers to the hated Derby County, or their fans (due to their emblem and nickname of 'The Rams')

There is a triumverate of hate in the East Midlands between Leicester, Derby & Forest: our chants are simple -

'Sheep, sheep, sheepshaggers' against Derby, or the equally lyrically deep

'We hate Forest We hate Forest, We hate Forest We hate Forest, We hate Forest We hate Forest, We are Forest haters!' (brings a tear to the eye... sniff!)

Like most trios, we all have our solo projects outside the main group dynamic:

Forest have a big local rivalry with Notts County obviously, and Sheffield Utd I think
Derby despise Leeds (probably trying to outdo each other in the dirty scab status I would imagine)
We loath Coventry, Wolves, and Villa: they're the main ones, there's loads more on a secondary level - I forget who it was but they summed up Leicester as having a reason to hate more clubs than any other he knew!

For example Blackburn and Swindon are more recent additions to the traditionally hated clubs due to a striker of each taking a voluntary tumble in the (same) Wembley penalty box in the early 90's to claim an undeserved play-off victory and deny us a place in the Premier League

(The Swindon game is the only game at which I have cried: we went 3-0 down and were being mullered, only to score three goals in about 15 minutes in the second half to get back to 3-3 before some nobody called Steve White threw himself to the floor and Roger Milford gave a ridiculous penalty in his last game (at which he had stated that he hoped to make an impact) which gave them the victory. Surely one of the greatest games ever at Wembley, and even know when I see a video of Stevie Thompson scoring the equalising goal it sends a shiver down my spine... The memory of that goal is my all-time favourite football moment, greater than the goals in the two cups we won, or the winners in the two play-off finals we did win, even the one against the Sheepshapggers, which brings us full circle!)

[AlexB]

Clarification requested on what a "Sheepshagger" is.

Or for the short answer it's someone who fucks sheep... :D

[RPI-Fan]

Good to see Eddie Lewis might get a run in the Prem next year. He really is a good footballer - basically the only American who plays an English-style game at a high level.

[Marc Vaughan]

Clarification requested on what a "Sheepshagger" is.
Sheepshaggers are people who love their pet Sheep just a little too much ...

(leaves full explanation to imagination ..)

[Desnudo]

I take it you haven't seen the Austin Powers movies...

I had, but I didn't know that it was a joke nickname for the team. I thought that was their real name.

[ISiddiqui]

I'd seriously question a team that had that as their official nickname ;).

[Desnudo]

I'd seriously question a team that had that as their official nickname ;).

Well I figured maybe it meant something like Sheep Catchers.

[AlexB]

Just to add to the 'Sheepshagger' description, just been sent this joke by a fellow City fan! :D




A Leicester van driver used to amuse himself by running over every Derby fan he would see strutting down the side of the road in their ubiquitous black and white colours. He would swerve to hit them, there would be a loud "THUD" and then he would swerve back on the road.
One day, as the driver was driving along, he saw a priest hitchhiking. He thought he would do a good turn and pulled the van over. He asked the Priest "Where are you going, Father?"
"I'm going to say mass at St. Joseph's church, about 2 miles down the road" replied the priest.
"No problem Father! I'll give you a lift! climb in!"
The happy priest climbed into the passenger seat and the van continued down the road.
Suddenly the driver saw a Sheepshagger walking down the road and instinctively swerved to hit him. But, just in time, he remembered the priest, so at the last minute he swerved back to the road, narrowly missing the bastard.
However even though he was certain he missed the glory-hunting shite, he still heard a loud "THUD". Not understanding where the noise came from, he glanced in his mirrors and when he didn't see anything he turned to the priest and said "I'm sorry Father, I almost hit that Derby fan,"
"That's okay" replied the priest. "I got the fucker with the door"